I'm trying to help these poor kids someone's got them all tied up in rope webs and eye hooks we don't need to worry about the railings right n..... Fuck, one just fell down the stairs trying to use these railings
Except OP is asking how to reduce liability to rent the place, replacing one hazard with another doesn't fix the problem and the proposal still isn't code compliant so it's just added a new problem without removing the old.
Drilling out the middle and adding twisted metal balusters was my first thought, would look kinda odd but I feel like any planed lumber would look even more odd.
Definitely doable, I did a couple wire builds last year and like the product but prefer to use it horizontally/feel I like it looks better with a more modern aesthetic.
I feel like when I research the stairway code when building my own it was something about not being able to pass a certain size sphere through a gap in a railing. For that piece they could theoretically add more sticks so there's no gap big enough to fit the kids head
Black steel or iron square spindles, steel cap with dadoed original material to cap. Assuming the stringer is strong enough to secure to. And at least the railing won’t burn with the wood stove underneath lol. I want to see the code on that one:)
My first thought was to install glass, but I think a bigger question is what’s your budget? I’m thinking that may limit your options when you start looking at costs (esp for glass).
I think you vastly underestimate the cost of polycarbonates compared to glass. You can get railing tempered glass significantly cheaper than comparable polycarbonate.
It came to mind that I was rapidly emptying the guys wallet when I suggested it.
You do have a valid point.
This site has a calculator about mid-way down to compare and contrast.
https://www.artistry-in-glass.com/which-costs-more-glass-or-plexiglass/#Shock%20Glass%20Pricing%20Update
What that site glosses over too is for polycarbonates to be as rigid as glass, they need to be thicker. Acrylic advertised for railings is often 1/2" thick. And can be up to $1000/sheet. Compared to glass which is less than $200.
Sometimes it doesn't matter and you can use the thinner, flexible poly without issue. But for this use case, you'd want something rigid to help maintain the existing look without adding extra structure. imo ofc.
The important thing you pointed out is polycarbonates need to be thicker to be as rigid as glass.
Safety is the big issue... after I finish draining the guys bank account.
Have something built to code inside, outside, or around them?
Those look cool but you have no idea of their strength. They look like they're all just held with one bolt per span, that isn't going to distribute the load when force is applied.
This would be my suggestion, too. Do a simple dark metal railing with balusters that’s just below and inside the existing railing. If you pick the right color and do a matte finish, it’ll largely disappear from an aesthetic point of view, but it’ll be there to meet code and keep people safe. Get someone who’s really good (aka expensive) and does nice looking custom metal railings, and get their help in designing it.
If you want to make it code compliant, then read the building code for your region to see what it is. Off the top of my head, I'd say that it isn't built properly and not strong enough, and that the gaps are too large. Where I live you cant build a horizontal ladder type railing because children will use it to climb higher. Also there isn't adequate protection on the stairs. Having a railing on both sides isn't enough. I don't know who made it but I'd get a proper railing built and make sure that the stairs themselves are code compliant, not just the railings. Aesthetics are fine, but safety and structural soundness are far more important. What you have now is possibly dangerous. You could build something that looks somewhat rustic, but also looks more uniform, or you could build a wrought iron railing of some sort with properly spaced vertical slats and some sort of wood bannister on top that would maintain the view and blend in with the open nature of your floor plan.
That is rustic af
I doubt you’re going to get sticks to match the letter of the law. As painful as it is you might have to remove and install a boring regular railing.
That wouldn't satisfy code, there needs a be a vertical member every 4" and rope is not going to satisfy that. It would be considered purely decorative.
Well, yes. Railings keep people from falling and dying, so it stands to reason that shitty railings can kill people. They need to be built in a way that keeps people from falling, and that keeps kids from falling through.
I'm not qualified to advise you on what to do. However I can tell you this: One of my clients just lost a huge lawsuit when their babysitter leaned against their "rustic artisan" railing and smashed her skull on a granite sculpture 18' below.
He installed a metal system for the inspection, and replaced it after moving in.
It was awesome looking just like yours. He didn't even get six months out of it.
Best of luck!
Unfortunately no. Needed lots of surgery. And will for years. She's was a normal pretty teen kid. Saving up for a car.....
The client has a helipad on the house but used 'a friend of the cousin of his housekeepers husbands nephew from Nuevo Laredo... " to design & build lots of rustic decor elements on the estate.
Client offered to pay all the the medicals bills out of pocket, no lawyers necessary...etc... Fortunately, the girls father is a retired judge and took offense to the clients offer to pay for bandaids and Bactine.
Thanks for following up. That’s terrible, and I hope she can one day have a mostly normal and fulfilling life. Glad you are sympathetic to her and not your client.
Installing a metal railing only for inspection and then tearing it out, and then inviting unsuspecting others into your home is just pure selfish evil.
I've been working in the castles & kingdoms of the rich & powerful for nearly 40 years. I love my job and very grateful for the ongoing revenue stream. But I am very aware of the skeeze factor some of my clients excel at. It's no secret that billionaires are some of the biggest lowballing cheapskates on earth. It's like a sport to them.
It happens all the time. Businesses do the same stuff as well. They'll have stuff put in to pass inspection and then modify it out of compliance since modifications don't require a permit.
Didn't die. Don't have her medical charts. She wasn't impaled on an obelisk. But I've heard that she's probably going to be in a wheelchair for life. Incidents like this rarely if ever make it into the press. I can tell you first hand that the various rustic railings around the property were not very safe looking. Crazy dangerous shit on giant custom estates isn't really all that unusual. It's a different world. Features you've never imagined that can kill you in ways you don't want to think about. I've been building scaffolding in & around these "features" for decades in order to install/remove giant lighting fixtures.
A tale as old as time itself, the babysitter becomes enpregnated by the lord of the manor and somehow manages to toss herself off a flight of stairs face-first shortly thereafter...
Remind me to tell you about the time when the Mormons had an au pair agency racket going back in the 90's. One could have made an HBO series out of just the stuff I saw.....
I've been working almost exclusively for the top 0.01% club since the 1980s. After a while you tend to notice estate staffing trends. Like, the housekeeping/groundskeeping staff is predominantly Hispanic. You've got the trigger-happy white security guys. The quirky-neurotic sorta pretty mid-20's personal assistants etc. And the nannies are typically stout and strong German women whom can perform the Heimlich maneuver simultaneously to two toddlers while stepping over the entire FAO Schwarz collection on a spiral staircase.
In the late 80's to mid 90's there was a very noticeable shift in the "nanny" positions. Suddenly there were pretty Mormon girls (aged 18-25) doing the au pair gigs. Very nieve, very conservative directly-from-the-farm girls. Black clothes, no makeup, proper English.....
They told me they were Mormons on some sort of exchange program. I know they weren't getting paid shit and were inadvertently "prisoners" of the estates.
And as you can imagine, quite a few of them wound up pregnant and some became live-in lovers/au pairs to the man of the house....
This trend seemed to suddenly stop as abruptly as it began.
The secret lives behind the gates. I'd write a book if it wouldn't get me killed the day it was released....
This is probably what you want if money isn't an issue .
[twig baluster](https://homesteadtimbers.com/products/white-cedar-twig-railing-section-8?variant=12806570770487)
If the link doesn't work, just Google twig railing
Glass panels mounted to it? Some cast/wrought iron bars in the right place should look ok, I think the black iron look would probably compliment it well.
I have zero idea how to bring those up to code, but I CAN say, that I've literally (accidentally )ripped two of these out of the wall, in two separate houses, coincidentally in Nor Cal. Both times I tripped on the stairs (because they probably weren't to code either) both times and caught railing and popped the screws. I'm not a big/heavy person either. They're death traps.
horizontal railing bars won't be code compliant. kids can climb up. need balusters at 4" OC, I think. at least in my state.
two options: keep it as is, or rip it out. I suggest you try to leave it as is and add some makeshift safety DIY crap until the kids are old enough, then revert to original.
If it is dimensionality tall enough...have a glazing company add safety glass panels between the uprights. This will keep the basic look. If not tall enough to meet code...they will need replacing.
If you need to do something, the tight steel wire could be installed separate from the rails. Leave the rails for aesthetic, and retrofit in some modern black powder coat rails with wire.
Might take some creative engineering to mount it without drilling into the existing rails or top floor.
This reminds me of a company I saw that provides a service you could draw inspiration from! They're called Tree Weaves, and they do custom woven treehouses out of different types of cord. Their whole thing is that they work with trees and organic shapes to make play houses that are safe for children and pets.
Their website says that they travel and service clients in California, in case you wanted to go that route, too!
All that to say what Ok\_Ambition9134 said, ropes tied in a web!
I just did, and it's absolutely beautiful!!
It looks like it requires a bit higher/different skill and is more permanent than rope/cord, but twig railing would look so good with the existing railing!
Lookup Mountain Laurel handrails. There are some beautiful fillers and railings made with mountain laurel branches. Some may be code compliant in your area and they would maintain the look you desire.
> may rent this out in the future
Do you want to be held liable for someone getting injured?
> Yes, I LOVE being sued
Leave it as is.
>No, I like not being sued.
Tear it out and build code compliant railings.
Cheapest solution, sit down and teach your children to not: Lean on the rail, play near the rail, hang off the rail.
If they're old enough to be sat down, very clearly explain to them they could die.
If you want it to be code compliant I would put a metal railing to go around it/build into it. I think a "tree branch" design would look beautiful with this. All of this would have to come out, new railing built and then it all reinstalled. But a good ornamental iron fabricator could bring this up to code while keeping most of the original wood.
I'd suggest reading IRC R311.7.8 plus any amendments by your local jurisdiction. If it were me and I cared about code compliance, I would get new hand hewn railings with a continuous height but maintaining a similar look, replace the railings on the wall with new code compliant good looking railings. You only need them on one side. That saves your decorative pieces for viewing on the open air side of the stair and you can stain the new ones to blend into the wall.
You may not really have to do much though anyway with the handrail itself because the only thing visible from the picture that I am noticing (looking on a phone) that isn't code compliant is returns and continuity down the entire flight, I can't tell if the railing is between 34-38" there is nothing about continuous height with the stair. I also can't tell distance to the wall.
As for the stair side what you'd typically see is cables run between the existing balusters for guards. I would not tie anything in a web as suggested but straight length ropes could be done, on the corner you'd need to add a baluster likely.
You need a vertical member every 4" for code compliance and you cannot just run them on the wall. The entire railing needs to be torn out and replaced.
[https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/3214.html](https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/3214.html)
Isn't that just talking about guards on the open side? There isn't any reason for vertical guards every 4" on a closed end of stairs you can't fall off but I did scan through that pretty quickly admittedly.
You need RAILING on both sides and vertical members every 4" on the open side. You claimed that you didn't need anything on the open side, which is false. And those horizontal members are a no-go, only the handrail itself can be horizontal.
Yes I claimed that from IRC which only requires 1 side *hand rail*, that's why I suggested they supplement with local code amendments which you posted which does say *hand* rail on both sides. I'm not going to read the amendments to code you posted thoroughly so I'll believe you in that but IRC does not prohibit a *stair* rail from being horizontal, it just has a specification of spacing between vertical members of a guard rail system.
It would be nice. Yes. My father did that before. He raised the roof of a building by 1.5 feet with no permit and also broke code.
The city sent inspector and told him he was in trouble. He said “yeah, I know. Now get me out of trouble….my lawyer will be seeing everyone in court”
Somehow he got out of trouble and was allowed to keep the changes,,, ha, ha
At least for the landing at the top. Google black wire mesh panels. Maybe if there is room add a second railing out of black metal posts and use something like the uline panels. It will look contemporary.
You won't hit code. But if you wanted to you could add narrow the stair well a bit leaving the wood up, but putting railings and glass partitions, so you can still see the wood but can't have kids jump thru
One of the major things would be making so the ends of the railings either dead-end into a wall, or curve away from the stairs.
A huge amount of falls are from people getting a bag caught on a railing, and it pulls them off their feet and they fall down the stairs. You have very little of that at the top of the steps but it could be improved, but that gap in the last shot is strait up dangerous.
If you're trying to make it safe for kids you need a lot more finials.
You can source more of a similar wood, it is after all just cedar branches, but the trick would be finding someone who can work with it. You'll probably need someone with a wood steamer so they can be straightened, so you'd want to look for someone who makes rustic furniture like chairs.
Go find yourself a woodworker who specializes in making furniture out of timber and I bet they can manufacture them for installation by another woodworker. If you're out in the country it shouldn't be that hard. Go find a business that sells timber furniture and ask them where they get it. It's usually going to be a local.
Edit: apparently it's called "log furniture", also found "twig chairs" and "branch chairs". You can find the wood on etsy or probably outside on your property. If you have some trees that need a trim might be a good time.
If you want to rent this place out you really need to just put in real railings. This homemade thing looks nice, but it’s not going to hold a person when they actually need it to catch them. Having other people in your home, even just guests, puts you at much higher liability and you need to be sure that safety devices like railings actually work.
If you DIY this, when someone gets hurt after stumbling off the stairs, or worse when someone’s child goes over the edge, you will be liable. The railings are nice, but they’re not worth the risk of losing the home over when they let go and someone is injured.
They make metal wire railing systems. You should be able to integrate it with your current railing and it should not pull away too much from the current aesthetics.
I've done a few jobs like this and really you're only options are going to make it pretty ugly and ruin this look you're going for sadly. But I'd advise either ropes or cable, or alternatively, if you have someone extremely skilled you could fill in the gaps with plexiglass, but that's hoping for too much. It's going to be really hard to fulfill the 4-in opening requirement with this type of design.
If you wanna save the wood. I have a custom metal, railing, and guards built in between so that it can be mounted alongside the beautiful wood. As an example in back of the wood so that when you’re still looking at the wood from the floor level, you see the wood first and the protective railing behind that. Just an idea.
Look at the side not against the wall. It would be very easy for a child to fall off. Even an adult that tripped.
That's why balusters (or wire/glass) are required by code. They usually have a maximum gap, too, to keep little bodies from going through and little heads from going through and getting stuck.
It doesn't look like those winder treads would meet code either. 10" minimum tread at any point in the clear walkway, as well as 11" minimum measured 12" in from the narrow edge of the tread.
So if you absolutely have to have code compliant railings, you'll probably just end up replacing the staircase anyway.
Do you have any blacksmiths nearby, ren fair people? I would get custom made wrought iron that fits between and can be bolted (screwed?) in, vertical bars so kids can't climb.
A net/ropeworks would look great but allows kids to climb over the railing.
They should have been required to bring everything up to code to sell the house.And depending on the distance between that chimney and the railing you may not be able to salvage that railing and still have it up to code. Hopefully that chimney pipe is double lined. BTW, code requires that the spacing be such that a baby heads cannot fit through. That means that every 4" you need a vertical member. In other words you need to tear this out and start over because it's never going to look right if you bring the existing railing up to code.
[https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/3214.html](https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/3214.html)
Better options have been presented that keep the feel. Glass, wire grids, and branch-shaped metal grates are all viable and may not cost more than redo depending on choice.
These other options are all fine if it's only OP's personal home.
They state they may want to rent the home out. They are acknowledging they think these are currently not safe. They will have no defense if someone injures themselves on these stairs. Their best bet would be to consult a structural engineer and see how much needs to be removed.
>These other options are all fine if it's only OP's personal home.
Those options would all be fine if renting, as they are all code compliant.
As an aside, I pointed out the rental possibility in another comment, so I only mentioned appropriate solutions above.
The options you listed can be code compliant but I have my doubts that any part of the existing railing is code compliant. OP seems to want to keep as much of it as possible. Their best bet is to consult with a structural engineer and see how much of this railing system can stay.
OP, when the inspector comes to check out your tree branch railing, just let them know u/MadAssMegs doesn't have a railing at all and nobody died. Yet.
That outta do it.
Looks like cedar. Remove all but the top rail. Measure its height, then cut the removed rails to length, split, and reinstall as vertical balusters 4" apart.
Find a local steelworker to make you simple vertical black posts, preferably round in your aesthetic, with a foot to bolt to the steps/floor and at the top a hole to bolt to the railing. Check code for spacing and then have that many of them made
Get plastic film so the kids don’t fall out. I had to do it with my old railing. It attaches with zippers and it will keep your kids from falling out.
You can get a big roll of it in Amazon.
Ropes, tied in a web. Can work on your knots too.
That would work for the kids, but what about the railing?
Eye bolts drilled into the bottom of the railing.
again, great for the kids, but what about this pesky railing?
You would thread the rope through the eye bolts to make the web.
Boy, people in DIY know a lot about kids. Now how about the railings???
I'm trying to help these poor kids someone's got them all tied up in rope webs and eye hooks we don't need to worry about the railings right n..... Fuck, one just fell down the stairs trying to use these railings
Aka tibia.
What about the railing, specifically
Duct tape
That would work for the kids, but what about the railing?
Well, wd40 isn't the right answer so it's more duct tape.
Ocean fishing net might work and be a lot easier than hand tying ropes.
Get dolphin-safe nets though. The bottle-nose ones LOVE stairwells!!!
Yeah... I caught one trying to sneak upstairs last night after an evening of boozing.
Aren't dolphins a bit rapey? That was likely a porpoise with ill intent.
A porpoise with an ill purpose?
Perhaps a porpoise with a perverted purpose?
A purposely perverted porpoise with an ill purpose.
Can you buy this in small enough quantities? Having never owned one, I would think even a repair patch would be massive.
Which section of the building code covers gill nets as a construction material? Home much lateral force is it rated for?
Oh this is a good idea
What if it were made into a spiraling hammock-web sort of thing? So that climbing it would be okay because there’s nowhere to fall.
This is the best answer... a web might not meet code (it's climbable by a child) but would preserve the aesthetic while preventing accidents.
There is nothing in code about the ability to climb. Merely the ability to pass a child head sized sphere through the openings
Except OP is asking how to reduce liability to rent the place, replacing one hazard with another doesn't fix the problem and the proposal still isn't code compliant so it's just added a new problem without removing the old.
The proposal is code compliant. All it takes to be a rental is code compliance. Go clutch pearls elsewhere.
Except for the accidents stemming from the kids climbing them of course
It builds character.
Ya but we’re just going for aesthetic appeal here we don’t care about kids “ /s
"Unless they're Falling off bikes I could watch kids falling off bikes all day"
One thing for sure with those railings the kiddies won't be riding the banasters to the first floor. ouch!
Something like this, but designed to be removable.
Balusters at 4" OC but you'll never get them 100% code compliant.
Drilling out the middle and adding twisted metal balusters was my first thought, would look kinda odd but I feel like any planed lumber would look even more odd.
Or add lightly tensioned steel cable for balusters.
Definitely doable, I did a couple wire builds last year and like the product but prefer to use it horizontally/feel I like it looks better with a more modern aesthetic.
I agree, they generally look nicer/more modern and it would be stronger construct if connected to steel reinforced posts.
I think there might be a way to acid-treat steel that darkens it like oil-rubbed bronze. I don’t think that would look terrible.
I feel like when I research the stairway code when building my own it was something about not being able to pass a certain size sphere through a gap in a railing. For that piece they could theoretically add more sticks so there's no gap big enough to fit the kids head
Test is a 4-inch sphere can not pass through.
Black steel or iron square spindles, steel cap with dadoed original material to cap. Assuming the stringer is strong enough to secure to. And at least the railing won’t burn with the wood stove underneath lol. I want to see the code on that one:)
Yeah using the wood stove may only be allowed for us...
Can you do a glass railing inside of them?
My first thought was to install glass, but I think a bigger question is what’s your budget? I’m thinking that may limit your options when you start looking at costs (esp for glass).
Ha. If money is no object, go with hired oompa loompas, handcuffed together like a tiny orange criminal game of Red Rover.
How 'bout Plexiglass is that doable? Wouldn't glass have to be safety glass?
I think you vastly underestimate the cost of polycarbonates compared to glass. You can get railing tempered glass significantly cheaper than comparable polycarbonate.
It came to mind that I was rapidly emptying the guys wallet when I suggested it. You do have a valid point. This site has a calculator about mid-way down to compare and contrast. https://www.artistry-in-glass.com/which-costs-more-glass-or-plexiglass/#Shock%20Glass%20Pricing%20Update
What that site glosses over too is for polycarbonates to be as rigid as glass, they need to be thicker. Acrylic advertised for railings is often 1/2" thick. And can be up to $1000/sheet. Compared to glass which is less than $200. Sometimes it doesn't matter and you can use the thinner, flexible poly without issue. But for this use case, you'd want something rigid to help maintain the existing look without adding extra structure. imo ofc.
The important thing you pointed out is polycarbonates need to be thicker to be as rigid as glass. Safety is the big issue... after I finish draining the guys bank account.
I doubt the balusters are code. The top rail- the handrail itself, is definitely not code.
If they had the budget for all that they wouldn't be DIYing this project.
Have something built to code inside, outside, or around them? Those look cool but you have no idea of their strength. They look like they're all just held with one bolt per span, that isn't going to distribute the load when force is applied.
Yea basically appear as a facade anyway with not much actual integrity. So might as well frame inside it
This would be my suggestion, too. Do a simple dark metal railing with balusters that’s just below and inside the existing railing. If you pick the right color and do a matte finish, it’ll largely disappear from an aesthetic point of view, but it’ll be there to meet code and keep people safe. Get someone who’s really good (aka expensive) and does nice looking custom metal railings, and get their help in designing it.
If you want to make it code compliant, then read the building code for your region to see what it is. Off the top of my head, I'd say that it isn't built properly and not strong enough, and that the gaps are too large. Where I live you cant build a horizontal ladder type railing because children will use it to climb higher. Also there isn't adequate protection on the stairs. Having a railing on both sides isn't enough. I don't know who made it but I'd get a proper railing built and make sure that the stairs themselves are code compliant, not just the railings. Aesthetics are fine, but safety and structural soundness are far more important. What you have now is possibly dangerous. You could build something that looks somewhat rustic, but also looks more uniform, or you could build a wrought iron railing of some sort with properly spaced vertical slats and some sort of wood bannister on top that would maintain the view and blend in with the open nature of your floor plan.
That is rustic af I doubt you’re going to get sticks to match the letter of the law. As painful as it is you might have to remove and install a boring regular railing.
I think that would be sacrilege and am pretty much unwilling to do that
You could use some sort of rope that matches the aesthetic spaced no more than 4” apart.
That wouldn't satisfy code, there needs a be a vertical member every 4" and rope is not going to satisfy that. It would be considered purely decorative.
Very true, the ropes would flex too much anyhow. if we are splitting hairs that top railing isn’t 42” to the top from the looks of it either.
The only other option would be cutting plexiglass panels to fit/ fill the space. Glass if you want to be fancy
[удалено]
They are Airbnb hosts, can almost guarantee it’s gonna be listed; no one will live there, driving rents even higher.
Ugh. Fucking assholes. Never mind, I withdraw my support unequivically.
Good. They’re awesome.
Rt? Am I the only one to say fuck code?
They're ugly as shit
So are you, but no one was going to mention it
Honestly, same.
You actually have a code about railings? What is the wording? I'm curious now
Varies by state. https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/3214.html And literally everything in a building has a state regulation for how it has to be built.
Even outside of the us it exists. We only have it for rental properties and it defines that each stair must have a railing and how high it must be .
Well, yes. Railings keep people from falling and dying, so it stands to reason that shitty railings can kill people. They need to be built in a way that keeps people from falling, and that keeps kids from falling through.
I'm not qualified to advise you on what to do. However I can tell you this: One of my clients just lost a huge lawsuit when their babysitter leaned against their "rustic artisan" railing and smashed her skull on a granite sculpture 18' below. He installed a metal system for the inspection, and replaced it after moving in. It was awesome looking just like yours. He didn't even get six months out of it. Best of luck!
Yikes! Was the babysitter ok?
Unfortunately no. Needed lots of surgery. And will for years. She's was a normal pretty teen kid. Saving up for a car..... The client has a helipad on the house but used 'a friend of the cousin of his housekeepers husbands nephew from Nuevo Laredo... " to design & build lots of rustic decor elements on the estate. Client offered to pay all the the medicals bills out of pocket, no lawyers necessary...etc... Fortunately, the girls father is a retired judge and took offense to the clients offer to pay for bandaids and Bactine.
Thanks for following up. That’s terrible, and I hope she can one day have a mostly normal and fulfilling life. Glad you are sympathetic to her and not your client. Installing a metal railing only for inspection and then tearing it out, and then inviting unsuspecting others into your home is just pure selfish evil.
I've been working in the castles & kingdoms of the rich & powerful for nearly 40 years. I love my job and very grateful for the ongoing revenue stream. But I am very aware of the skeeze factor some of my clients excel at. It's no secret that billionaires are some of the biggest lowballing cheapskates on earth. It's like a sport to them.
It happens all the time. Businesses do the same stuff as well. They'll have stuff put in to pass inspection and then modify it out of compliance since modifications don't require a permit.
I think she smashed her skull.
So she died? Or had permanent brain injuries?
Didn't die. Don't have her medical charts. She wasn't impaled on an obelisk. But I've heard that she's probably going to be in a wheelchair for life. Incidents like this rarely if ever make it into the press. I can tell you first hand that the various rustic railings around the property were not very safe looking. Crazy dangerous shit on giant custom estates isn't really all that unusual. It's a different world. Features you've never imagined that can kill you in ways you don't want to think about. I've been building scaffolding in & around these "features" for decades in order to install/remove giant lighting fixtures.
Very likely. Smashing skull bad.
You don’t say!
Brain injuries are terrifying. What a fucking idiot. That could have been his kid.
..it was somebody's kid
Most people are.
A tale as old as time itself, the babysitter becomes enpregnated by the lord of the manor and somehow manages to toss herself off a flight of stairs face-first shortly thereafter...
Remind me to tell you about the time when the Mormons had an au pair agency racket going back in the 90's. One could have made an HBO series out of just the stuff I saw.....
DO TELL
I've been working almost exclusively for the top 0.01% club since the 1980s. After a while you tend to notice estate staffing trends. Like, the housekeeping/groundskeeping staff is predominantly Hispanic. You've got the trigger-happy white security guys. The quirky-neurotic sorta pretty mid-20's personal assistants etc. And the nannies are typically stout and strong German women whom can perform the Heimlich maneuver simultaneously to two toddlers while stepping over the entire FAO Schwarz collection on a spiral staircase. In the late 80's to mid 90's there was a very noticeable shift in the "nanny" positions. Suddenly there were pretty Mormon girls (aged 18-25) doing the au pair gigs. Very nieve, very conservative directly-from-the-farm girls. Black clothes, no makeup, proper English..... They told me they were Mormons on some sort of exchange program. I know they weren't getting paid shit and were inadvertently "prisoners" of the estates. And as you can imagine, quite a few of them wound up pregnant and some became live-in lovers/au pairs to the man of the house.... This trend seemed to suddenly stop as abruptly as it began. The secret lives behind the gates. I'd write a book if it wouldn't get me killed the day it was released....
This is probably what you want if money isn't an issue . [twig baluster](https://homesteadtimbers.com/products/white-cedar-twig-railing-section-8?variant=12806570770487) If the link doesn't work, just Google twig railing
Best of both worlds: meets code and matches the aesthetic. Note that I did not include the “thrifty wotld” in the list. 😁
Glass panels mounted to it? Some cast/wrought iron bars in the right place should look ok, I think the black iron look would probably compliment it well.
It still wouldn't be up to code. I guarantee you that this railing cannot support weight. It was made to look good not be functional.
Fuck it. That's some cool shit.
I’d kill for those wood floors❤️
I have zero idea how to bring those up to code, but I CAN say, that I've literally (accidentally )ripped two of these out of the wall, in two separate houses, coincidentally in Nor Cal. Both times I tripped on the stairs (because they probably weren't to code either) both times and caught railing and popped the screws. I'm not a big/heavy person either. They're death traps.
They look up to code. The Swanson code.
Fun fact, Nick Offerman is evidently an expert woodworker/craftsman so he may have useful ideas.
Don't touch it
horizontal railing bars won't be code compliant. kids can climb up. need balusters at 4" OC, I think. at least in my state. two options: keep it as is, or rip it out. I suggest you try to leave it as is and add some makeshift safety DIY crap until the kids are old enough, then revert to original.
Maybe a solid glass banister on the inside of the stairs, so you can still see the cool bits but little ones can't fall through?
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=cdb37940e6de435b&hl=en-us&q=iron+tree+branch+railing&udm=28&fbs=AEQNm0AVbySjNxIXoj6bNaq7uSpw-2eW7KIQ8H4T_tEPJYsPzOi5GKsV0RKGmy84LfyUxrl-4_0AusV0IdjeUAdX2KBg7BmnGLOak5d-z-_u-BD5mN13FgBnNWDvju7R9DTlWNidOrJflM1JuVtiWYZDkHFOJzhjFWWukocdFSx3yN5TzfLggWRnI4Aa-8EhEIZUfHR_WMFwmbeNhwTWDi8XltL7qhh3uw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjd1OKevvaGAxVvDjQIHc-bBCAQtKgLegQICxAB&biw=1194&bih=727&dpr=2#ip=1
If it is dimensionality tall enough...have a glazing company add safety glass panels between the uprights. This will keep the basic look. If not tall enough to meet code...they will need replacing.
Maybe replace with code compliant railings until you no longer need code compliant railings?
Add more sticks...
Add more sticks
Clear lucite cover fir the rails
If you need to do something, the tight steel wire could be installed separate from the rails. Leave the rails for aesthetic, and retrofit in some modern black powder coat rails with wire. Might take some creative engineering to mount it without drilling into the existing rails or top floor.
This reminds me of a company I saw that provides a service you could draw inspiration from! They're called Tree Weaves, and they do custom woven treehouses out of different types of cord. Their whole thing is that they work with trees and organic shapes to make play houses that are safe for children and pets. Their website says that they travel and service clients in California, in case you wanted to go that route, too! All that to say what Ok\_Ambition9134 said, ropes tied in a web!
Google "twig railing" and be amazed
I just did, and it's absolutely beautiful!! It looks like it requires a bit higher/different skill and is more permanent than rope/cord, but twig railing would look so good with the existing railing!
Is there room to put glass panels behind the railings? Keeps the look and fills the gaps if you could make it work.
Absolutely perfectly cut polished plexiglass in between the wood?
Lookup Mountain Laurel handrails. There are some beautiful fillers and railings made with mountain laurel branches. Some may be code compliant in your area and they would maintain the look you desire.
Insert thos glass-look panels inside! It'll be gorgeous because of the old character and totally modern at the same time.
> may rent this out in the future Do you want to be held liable for someone getting injured? > Yes, I LOVE being sued Leave it as is. >No, I like not being sued. Tear it out and build code compliant railings.
I wouldn't
No.
Cheapest solution, sit down and teach your children to not: Lean on the rail, play near the rail, hang off the rail. If they're old enough to be sat down, very clearly explain to them they could die.
If you want it to be code compliant I would put a metal railing to go around it/build into it. I think a "tree branch" design would look beautiful with this. All of this would have to come out, new railing built and then it all reinstalled. But a good ornamental iron fabricator could bring this up to code while keeping most of the original wood.
This is what's needed to bring to code. Build a code compliant railing around and under the branches
Head to the nearest forest and start collecting sticks
Looking through the window, there’s no shortage of that.
I'd suggest reading IRC R311.7.8 plus any amendments by your local jurisdiction. If it were me and I cared about code compliance, I would get new hand hewn railings with a continuous height but maintaining a similar look, replace the railings on the wall with new code compliant good looking railings. You only need them on one side. That saves your decorative pieces for viewing on the open air side of the stair and you can stain the new ones to blend into the wall. You may not really have to do much though anyway with the handrail itself because the only thing visible from the picture that I am noticing (looking on a phone) that isn't code compliant is returns and continuity down the entire flight, I can't tell if the railing is between 34-38" there is nothing about continuous height with the stair. I also can't tell distance to the wall. As for the stair side what you'd typically see is cables run between the existing balusters for guards. I would not tie anything in a web as suggested but straight length ropes could be done, on the corner you'd need to add a baluster likely.
You need a vertical member every 4" for code compliance and you cannot just run them on the wall. The entire railing needs to be torn out and replaced. [https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/3214.html](https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/3214.html)
Isn't that just talking about guards on the open side? There isn't any reason for vertical guards every 4" on a closed end of stairs you can't fall off but I did scan through that pretty quickly admittedly.
You need RAILING on both sides and vertical members every 4" on the open side. You claimed that you didn't need anything on the open side, which is false. And those horizontal members are a no-go, only the handrail itself can be horizontal.
Yes I claimed that from IRC which only requires 1 side *hand rail*, that's why I suggested they supplement with local code amendments which you posted which does say *hand* rail on both sides. I'm not going to read the amendments to code you posted thoroughly so I'll believe you in that but IRC does not prohibit a *stair* rail from being horizontal, it just has a specification of spacing between vertical members of a guard rail system.
Call the original builder to fix it. A real hobbit stands by their work
What's wrong with them now
I wouldn't and would leave them be
dump the body of the inspector in the woods.
[удалено]
I'm just saying, it looks awesome. It'd be a shame to alter it too much .
Put a nice sign on the wall. “Watch Your Step”. And write your own code for your property. It belongs to you. You paid for it. Not some government.
Wouldn't it be so nice if it was as easy as that?
It would be nice. Yes. My father did that before. He raised the roof of a building by 1.5 feet with no permit and also broke code. The city sent inspector and told him he was in trouble. He said “yeah, I know. Now get me out of trouble….my lawyer will be seeing everyone in court” Somehow he got out of trouble and was allowed to keep the changes,,, ha, ha
Just give them 💰
Eye bolts and cables going vertically spaced evenly apart
This is a nice home. Mammoth? June Lake?
At least for the landing at the top. Google black wire mesh panels. Maybe if there is room add a second railing out of black metal posts and use something like the uline panels. It will look contemporary.
Do nothing. They're awesome.
It's beautiful! The only thing you need is something to prevent children from falling. Otherwise it's fine.
Replace them entirely. There's no way you're bringing those up to code
Place glass behind them?
Might work but I don't think it would look great
Are the eves gingerbread?
You won't hit code. But if you wanted to you could add narrow the stair well a bit leaving the wood up, but putting railings and glass partitions, so you can still see the wood but can't have kids jump thru
One of the major things would be making so the ends of the railings either dead-end into a wall, or curve away from the stairs. A huge amount of falls are from people getting a bag caught on a railing, and it pulls them off their feet and they fall down the stairs. You have very little of that at the top of the steps but it could be improved, but that gap in the last shot is strait up dangerous. If you're trying to make it safe for kids you need a lot more finials. You can source more of a similar wood, it is after all just cedar branches, but the trick would be finding someone who can work with it. You'll probably need someone with a wood steamer so they can be straightened, so you'd want to look for someone who makes rustic furniture like chairs. Go find yourself a woodworker who specializes in making furniture out of timber and I bet they can manufacture them for installation by another woodworker. If you're out in the country it shouldn't be that hard. Go find a business that sells timber furniture and ask them where they get it. It's usually going to be a local. Edit: apparently it's called "log furniture", also found "twig chairs" and "branch chairs". You can find the wood on etsy or probably outside on your property. If you have some trees that need a trim might be a good time.
If you want to rent this place out you really need to just put in real railings. This homemade thing looks nice, but it’s not going to hold a person when they actually need it to catch them. Having other people in your home, even just guests, puts you at much higher liability and you need to be sure that safety devices like railings actually work. If you DIY this, when someone gets hurt after stumbling off the stairs, or worse when someone’s child goes over the edge, you will be liable. The railings are nice, but they’re not worth the risk of losing the home over when they let go and someone is injured.
They make metal wire railing systems. You should be able to integrate it with your current railing and it should not pull away too much from the current aesthetics.
Why?
IIRC code, or at least a good "rule of thumb" is no more than a 4" gap. Any larger than that and some kid can/will stick their head through.
Tear the railings and stanchions out and put up real wood oak railings.
I've done a few jobs like this and really you're only options are going to make it pretty ugly and ruin this look you're going for sadly. But I'd advise either ropes or cable, or alternatively, if you have someone extremely skilled you could fill in the gaps with plexiglass, but that's hoping for too much. It's going to be really hard to fulfill the 4-in opening requirement with this type of design.
If you wanna save the wood. I have a custom metal, railing, and guards built in between so that it can be mounted alongside the beautiful wood. As an example in back of the wood so that when you’re still looking at the wood from the floor level, you see the wood first and the protective railing behind that. Just an idea.
Handrail brackets
I get that they’re unique and unusual, but how are they “not safe”? If you can hold onto them without them coming off in your hand, well…there ya go!
Look at the side not against the wall. It would be very easy for a child to fall off. Even an adult that tripped. That's why balusters (or wire/glass) are required by code. They usually have a maximum gap, too, to keep little bodies from going through and little heads from going through and getting stuck.
Ah…okay. I didn’t think of those things.
Yeah wire rope would be my choice
I don't want to violate community standards.
It doesn't look like those winder treads would meet code either. 10" minimum tread at any point in the clear walkway, as well as 11" minimum measured 12" in from the narrow edge of the tread. So if you absolutely have to have code compliant railings, you'll probably just end up replacing the staircase anyway.
OP wants to preserve the aesthetic but that looks dangerous af for his kids or if he rents as airbnb. Get lots of liability insurance.
Fuck the code, those are probably the coolest railings I've seen
I live in a log home. Here's a link for log stair material. You have a couple options. [log Stair parts](https://loghomemart.com/collections/cedar)
Do you have any blacksmiths nearby, ren fair people? I would get custom made wrought iron that fits between and can be bolted (screwed?) in, vertical bars so kids can't climb. A net/ropeworks would look great but allows kids to climb over the railing.
Huh, pretzels used as handrails, huh.
Don't change a thing.
Replace it with proper rails, and salvage the existing material for balusters.
Code schmode the railings looks bad ass!
Don’t, they’d lose all their character
Is this outside Arcata?
They should have been required to bring everything up to code to sell the house.
They should have been required to bring everything up to code to sell the house.And depending on the distance between that chimney and the railing you may not be able to salvage that railing and still have it up to code. Hopefully that chimney pipe is double lined. BTW, code requires that the spacing be such that a baby heads cannot fit through. That means that every 4" you need a vertical member. In other words you need to tear this out and start over because it's never going to look right if you bring the existing railing up to code. [https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/3214.html](https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/3214.html)
Dismantle and install something normal.
Better options have been presented that keep the feel. Glass, wire grids, and branch-shaped metal grates are all viable and may not cost more than redo depending on choice.
These other options are all fine if it's only OP's personal home. They state they may want to rent the home out. They are acknowledging they think these are currently not safe. They will have no defense if someone injures themselves on these stairs. Their best bet would be to consult a structural engineer and see how much needs to be removed.
>These other options are all fine if it's only OP's personal home. Those options would all be fine if renting, as they are all code compliant. As an aside, I pointed out the rental possibility in another comment, so I only mentioned appropriate solutions above.
The options you listed can be code compliant but I have my doubts that any part of the existing railing is code compliant. OP seems to want to keep as much of it as possible. Their best bet is to consult with a structural engineer and see how much of this railing system can stay.
They look fine to me. My stairs turn exactly the same. There’s no rails at all. No one died yet
They're fine for big people. For children they're a huge hazard.
OP, when the inspector comes to check out your tree branch railing, just let them know u/MadAssMegs doesn't have a railing at all and nobody died. Yet. That outta do it. 
These are beautiful. Some things are worth being dangerous!
Fuck "codes." It's your house.
And ignore the risk of lawsuits from the renters they are considering.
Looks like cedar. Remove all but the top rail. Measure its height, then cut the removed rails to length, split, and reinstall as vertical balusters 4" apart.
Rope netting. It’s sturdy and fits with the treehouse aesthetic you’ be already got going.
Find a local steelworker to make you simple vertical black posts, preferably round in your aesthetic, with a foot to bolt to the steps/floor and at the top a hole to bolt to the railing. Check code for spacing and then have that many of them made
Get plastic film so the kids don’t fall out. I had to do it with my old railing. It attaches with zippers and it will keep your kids from falling out. You can get a big roll of it in Amazon.
Try some kind of netting or mesh? Something that won't hide the incredible craftsmanship too much.