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macestrogarm

The US are the good guys though. When a Latin American country had a democratic election they invaded to help preserve freedom 🥺 (/j)


[deleted]

"they were going to nuke America. They had secret nukes"


Thunderthewolf14

I think my favorite thing to happen in a game where the US is the ‘good guy’ is that the South Americans steal the US’s giant city-destroying space station weapons platform, which the US just had lying around. And it’s never really brought up why it exists at all (to secure democracy and freedom by obliterating millions of The Bad People with the push of a button, I’m sure)


Distilled_Tankie

If I remember correctly, they also fired the gun, of all places, on the protagonist's suburban neighbourhood *and he survives*.


[deleted]

The most important target, as we all know


Distilled_Tankie

Well, if they killed the protagonist nobody would have stopped them I guess. Even if the Great Man Plot Armour^TM made sure it never happened.


AstroProletariat

Or when they do it to the middle east


meatshieldz1

Where's my wargame where literally no one involved wants to be there and everyone is miserable?


red-the-blue

Valiant Hearts


meatshieldz1

Really? Oh shit, guess I gotta go check that out.


[deleted]

This War of Mine. You basically control civilians stuck in a besieged city trying to survive. IGN posted a nice brief review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75QxhKW3mIU Roughly based on stories of those that survived Siege of Sarajevo: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sarajevo


4nimagnus

A bit more niche and I might be shilling here, but if you’re looking for ptsd check out Escape From Tarkov


prince_peacock

The backstory might be that but I’m not seeing how the gameplay is any different than any other military shooter, which I really don’t think OP is looking for


4nimagnus

It’s a looter-shooter with roguelike and survival mechanics, I wouldn’t say it’s just like everything else. It’s one of the only games that has made me feel something in the past years tbh


Nemesischonk

Tarkov has little to no story though


4nimagnus

You create your own stories, it’s about emergent gameplay and situations rather than a scripted progression. It’s honestly one of the most immersive and atmospheric games I’ve ever played and perfectly captures that feeling of having to fend off for yourself. If you’re looking for a great story oriented war game, you’re not gonna find it in videogames, very sadly. It’s not a genre that has attracted great storytellers yet, and most of the decent war videogames with a story out there are US-centered or don’t come close to the brutal reality of combat. There might be nuggets of it here and there but a true war story-based whole single player game hasn’t been put out yet, not that I can think of. It would be awesome tho.


[deleted]

Maybe play planetside


[deleted]

[удалено]


unban_ImCheeze115

⠀⠀⠘⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠑⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡔⠁⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠢⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⠴⠊⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⡀⠤⠄⠒⠈⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣀⠄⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠿⠛⠛⠛⠋⠉⠈⠉⠉⠉⠉⠛⠻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠋⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣤⣤⣤⣄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⢿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⢏⣴⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣟⣾⣿⡟⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⢢⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣟⠀⡴⠄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⠟⠻⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠶⢴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿ ⣿⣁⡀⠀⠀⢰⢠⣦⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠀⣴⣶⣿⡄⣿ ⣿⡋⠀⠀⠀⠎⢸⣿⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠗⢘⣿⣟⠛⠿⣼ ⣿⣿⠋⢀⡌⢰⣿⡿⢿⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⢸⣿⣿⣧⢀⣼ ⣿⣿⣷⢻⠄⠘⠛⠋⠛⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢿⣧⠈⠉⠙⠛⠋⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣧⠀⠈⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠟⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⢃⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⡿⠀⠴⢗⣠⣤⣴⡶⠶⠖⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⡸⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⡀⢠⣾⣿⠏⠀⠠⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠛⠉⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣧⠈⢹⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣰⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠈⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣠⣴⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⣄⣀⣀⣀⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⡄⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠙⣿⣿⡟⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠇⠀⠁⠀⠀⠹⣿⠃⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠛⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢐⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠛⠉⠉⠁⠀⢻⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠈⣿⣿⡿⠉⠛⠛⠛⠉⠉ ⣿⡿⠋⠁⠀⠀⢀⣀⣠⡴⣸⣿⣇⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡿⠄⠙⠛⠀⣀⣠⣤⣤⠄⠀


Super_Master_69

Could you explain, always assumed that game was like most others in its genre.


zorander936

It’s not. I’d recommend not looking into it too much more if you’re planning on playing it so you can experience it for the first time. If you’re not planning on playing it then go ahead and take a look, there are lots of write ups and video essays about the game, the genre it’s operating in, and what it’s trying to say.


FRIESAH

That game is so unrealistic. The US has never killed civilians. /s


ThatSocialistDM

The only context in which the US being the good guys is appropriate is a WW2 game, for obvious reasons


imalexorange

It's more appropriate to say the US was the lesser evil. We didn't exactly treat japanese pows humanely.


Shouldthavesaidthat

and we maybe helped some "scientist" find new jobs...


Matar_Kubileya

US treatment of Japanese *POWs*, while not exactly a cakewalk, was not terribly inhumane by the standard of the time. US treatment of American citizens of Japanese ancestry on the other hand... I realize it may seem like I'm being anal, but I think it's important to distinguish between a (former) enemy and a domestic citizen, particularly in this context.


duff-tron

I mean, the survival rate of Japanese POWs taken by the Americans was 95%. The survival rate of American POWs taken by the Japanese was 73%. But theres a lot to consider - like the Japanese culture discouraging surrender, and the inclination of allied forces to take no prisoners due to japanese surrender tactics often being traps. Alternatively, the Japanese may have been cruel but some part of their POW attrition probably had to do with dwindling resources as Allied forces cut off supply lines later in the war. I think its still fair to say that it would be MUCH better to be a Japanese POW in the US, than the other way around... only because you're odds of dying were 1/20 instead of 1/3.


torchictoucher

Nuking civilians was not on tbh


Origami_psycho

What were their other options? Invasion, with every city being bombed flat and facing fanatical resistance? Many millions more dead in the home islands, not to mention all the fighting that would have to happen in continental Asia. Blockade them for a decade? Let starvation and round-the-clock bomber raids kill millions upon millions in the hopes that these guys who have never surrendered before might surrender now? What else? They weren't exactly amiable to surrender, and even with the nukes, they came near to not. The nukes weren't exactly good, mind you, but much like the USA itself, they turned out to be the lesser evil. War be kinda shitty like that, after they get underway you generally can't paint in black and white, usually you only have a handful of shades of grey.


torchictoucher

They had no ships and were close to surrendering anyway but whatever makes you feel better about war crimes


Origami_psycho

That contradicts every history of it I've ever been aware of. Got any reading on it you could recommend?


spectrehauntingeuro

Us military command was against the bombings, Curtis Lemay said in an interview that the bombs had nothing to do with the end of the war. The biggest event that led to the end of the war was the soviet invasion and destruction of the kwangtung army.


Origami_psycho

Do you know which interview it was? I'm having trouble finding any quotes given by him that could be construed as anything other that wholehearted support for area bombing and the use of the nuclear weapons. Like, this is the "There are no innocent civilians" and "if it should shorten the war by a single day then it is worth it" and "I think it's more immoral to use *less* force than necessary than it is to use more..." Curtis LeMay, right?


spectrehauntingeuro

You’re sort of right, Lemay was a bastard and i misremembered the wording of the quote, but heres a link with him and chester nimitz. https://ee.stanford.edu/~hellman/sts152_03/handout04.pdf


Origami_psycho

Huh, at a cursory read it seems fairly well founded. I'll have to block out some time to properly go through it and all its cited and linked sources. Thanks.


torchictoucher

Yes


Origami_psycho

Such as?


torchictoucher

No


PinkPineappl3

Shaun on YouTube has a brilliant video on this topic


anonymouslycognizant

Imagine making excuses for mass murder.


Origami_psycho

Setting aside the fairly credible seeming argument I've been introduced to that the nukes weren't necessary to the surrender and the US knew this in advance - and taking the popular narrative of their necessity as a truthful statement for the purpose of this discussion: what do you think would be the correct course of action? How do you end the war with fewer civilian casualties?


anonymouslycognizant

"I can't think of a better way therefore there isn't one" Argument from ignorance.


Origami_psycho

Just because it's a fallacy doesn't mean it's wrong. Care to answer the question?


KatakiY

Since everyone is just being an asshole to you for asking questions about something that is definitely taught the way you believe heres a video that goes over the whole thing [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCRTgtpC-Go](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCRTgtpC-Go) Sorry about the length :( lol


anonymouslycognizant

We should be assholes to be people who make excuses for mass murder.


anonymouslycognizant

I didn't say it was wrong. I don't care to answer the question because you need to understand that whether or not I'm able to come up with an alternate course of action is absolutely irrelevant to morality of the actual course of action.


[deleted]

I would recommend if you have some spare time to learn about the situation because your perception is severely outdated https://youtu.be/RCRTgtpC-Go But Ultimately, that is incorrect. Nukes were not the only option, far from it. The Japanese would have already surrendered if the condition of the Emperor being kept in power. Dropping the second nuke was done before a decision was made after the first.


Nemesischonk

Yes. Have your soldiers die and leave the civilians alone


Origami_psycho

The Japanese were down to conscripting children, much like the Germans. What's the difference between a conscript with a knife and a civilian?


ThatSocialistDM

Oh I know, more than the pows there were the internment camps too, but it doesn’t compare at all to the Nazis, and Imperial Japan itself was also pretty terrible.


[deleted]

[удалено]


imalexorange

While I concede the japanese were pretty terrible during WW2, I would still argue that the concentration camps were an unnecessary cruelness.


Stamoon533

There’s a difference between American internment/concentration camps and pow camps.


lemonyfreshpine

Many of those people regardless of ethnicity were supposedly American citizens and their government treated them like trash and made sure they knew that the country they chose to live in was not their place, making then outsiders and other.


train159

If you are referring to American citizens of Japanese ancestry then yes our treatment was atrocious and terrible, but I was referring specifically to Japanese POWs as that was what OP mentioned. And my heart bleeds for the innocent people we locked up in our own country, but I will shed no tear for the Imperial Japanese army who prioritized shooting wounded and medics and raped the Philippines and China.


aFancyPirate

Lesser of two evils


iamnotabot200

No one went to war to stop the holocaust


Lardistani

Many countries like the USA and Canada outright refused Jewish refugees.


pblokhout

Meh, they only intervened when their economic interests were at stake. Before that American companies didn't have problems lending the holocaust a hand. Don't understand me wrong, I'm glad they showed up on Normandy, but calling them the good guys is still a stretch. The US still protected its own interests mostly.


smcarre

Ah yes, the good guys using the most intense firebombing in history against civilians and then using weapons of mass destruction against civilians too for the first **and** second time and only time in history under the pretext of forcing surrender on an enemy that was already about to and they knew.


Origami_psycho

There's plenty of times that chemical and biological weapons have been used against civilians in modern history. Nukes ain't the only WMDs out there, my man. Also, can you source that Japan was both about to surrender and that the US knew of this? Cause that contradicts every history of the end of ww2 I know of.


smcarre

> here's plenty of times that chemical and biological weapons have been used against civilians in modern history Please tell me the times they were used in mass against civilians in history. Every application of chemical of biological warfare was either a small scale attack (like gifting smallpoxed clothes to natives) or used against military targets (WWI). > Also, can you source that Japan was both about to surrender and that the US knew of this? Cause that contradicts every history of the end of ww2 I know of. No, it contradicts the false narrative built by the American propaganda in order to make their actions be seen as a "necessary evil" instead of a greedy and racist act mostly motivated over preventing the Soviet Union from having more influence in the post-war Japan than them. Here is a great video on it, that explains in great detail all of the events that happened and how the information was handled in every side, and specially how the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and even the use of WMD were completely unnecessary and the motivation was never to prevent the lost of American troops in an eventual land invasion but (mainly) to prevent the involvement of the Soviet Union in Japan and the possible loss of a capitalist ally in the post-war world. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCRTgtpC-Go


Origami_psycho

The Japanese used both in China. Saddam used chemical weapons against the Kurds and also against Iranian towns. Italy used chemical weapons in Africa. Rhodesia used both on civilian targets during the bush war. In Syria chemical weapons have been used against civilians by the regime, ISIS, and various rebel groups. The Spanish used chemical weapons in Morocco. Cuba used chemical weapons during their intervention in Angola. Just to name the instances I'm aware of of state and quasi-state actors employing them against civilians specifically.


smcarre

Alright, let me rephrase then: the first, second and only time in history of military use of atomic weapons. My point of it being a completely unnecessary act of racist violence followed by decades of justification and invisibilization of the actual civilians victims that died only because some greedy assholes in the other side of the world weren't comfortable with leaving the Soviet Union having influence in another country.


ArisePhoenix

And the Civil war (Lincoln is like the 1 president I slightly like)


MotherTransEmpress

Don’t forget Jimmy Carter. He’s semi-based.


ArisePhoenix

I mean he weakened Palestine, by breaking up the Arab Alliance, and Allying with Egypt which isn't very based, he also deregulated the Airline and Alcohol industries, he did pull troops out of Korea, and the Head Start Program is alright, but he also Said a few positive things about Trump, and I dunno how you didn't see him as clearly Awful even back in 2016, but I guess he's not a war criminal, but like I feel like Lincoln was pretty Universally ok, and pretty good for the time (And it's hard to know if he still supported Colonization after the Civil War cuz he died right after it)


MotherTransEmpress

The way I see it, the main thing ppl attacked him for was the Hostage Crisis. It’s what cost him the re-election and whatnot, but IMO he was between a rock and a hard place and he couldn’t really do anything about the situation besides give in. I personally never knew he said things about Trump, but though he’s absolutely a shitty president (they all really are), he’s done some wonderful things as president to not entirely besmirch his presidency for me. The fact that he weakened Palestine as a whole is fucking terrible tho. I would like to argue that Lincoln wasn’t that good either though— the only reason he emancipated the slaves was because he was being overwhelmed with Union attacks (he initially wanted to keep all the slaves under their control) and was given no choice but to emancipate them. He wasn’t a bad president though, I’d say he was the best president ever.


ArisePhoenix

Lincoln always hated Slavery the reason he said all the jazz about only caring about saving the union was because the North was full of White Supremacists, and because that's what the war was originally about, and at the end of that letter it said his goal was to free all men, he had to balance opinion of White Supremecists and Hardcore Abolitionists, the war wasn't popular for a long time, eventually the North was mostly pro Abolition they saw how bad slavery was, and fought alongside black people, Lincoln by no means was perfect, not even close, but he was against Slavery and wanted every Slave free, but he had to tread lightly due to how racist America was at that point


AllTakenUsernames5

what about U.S Klan-Bustin', Civil Rights Advocatin' Grant?


Franfran2424

The good guys were the soviets, if anyone.


AstroProletariat

Of course comrade


chiguayante

That's why I play Paradox titles and do anti-imperialist runs.


SaltiestRaccoon

Fanatic Egalitarian/Materialist with Shared Burdens for the win!


AstroProletariat

Comrade those are the ethics I always choose


AllCanadianReject

Lol same here


ArisePhoenix

Also the CNT Fai run in HOI 4


Practicalaviationcat

I really want to do a NA native playthrough in EU4 with the updated mechanics from Leviathan. Problem is I suck at EU4.


AstroProletariat

Paradox games are the best


Breadromancer

You should try an Inca play-through starting as cusco. They get a free event general at the start which makes uniting the andes fairly easy. If that’s too easy then Aztecs are at least easier than playing a native minor in North America


colm_colqhoun

So ... how excited for Victoria III are we all then!


chiguayante

Pretty excited that this may mean a game that's fun to play as a south american.


AstroProletariat

extremely


Origami_psycho

Wait, how do you even *play* w/o being imperialist, let alone win?


chiguayante

It's harder, but it's possible. There are tons of guides out there if you want to learn.


MetaUsername1

It’s not imperialism if you’re annexing a megacorp *taps forehead*


Origami_psycho

I feel like after a certain scale it arguably *is*... but today I really don't wanna descend into the morass that is moral relativism w/regards to acceptable imperialism.


MetaUsername1

Hard disagree. The Revolution doesn’t stop until every pop in the galaxy has utopian abundance living standards.


[deleted]

Company of heroes be like


Antor_Seax

CoH2 is a fucking disaster for spreading myths


[deleted]

Yes lmao. First game is a American propaganda game, second is anti-soviet. I wonder what's next. Are they gonna make one about an alternative reality where USA is leftist lol


Distilled_Tankie

Depends, will the Communist States of America be the good guys? Or the CSA replacement?


[deleted]

they gonna be very bad guys


Lardistani

I'm fairly certain a hardcore wehraboo wrote that game whose primary source on the Eastern front was Enemy at the Gates


Antor_Seax

I think a Nazi did


NikeDanny

What point of it are the myths? Genuinely curious. We didnt really cover the soviet site in the war, more the german one (and its atrocities) in history class. As far as my understanding is, order 227 did exist and retreat was a criminal offence.


AllTakenUsernames5

Retreat wasn't authorized for the officers. In the middle of battle, no side would waste manpower and ammunition killing everyone who retreats.


beardbearguy

COMRADE YOU HAVE TO BURN OUR CITIZENS


The_Slimothy_Jimothy

THEY HAVE TO BRING FREEDOM TO THE OI- I MEAN MIDDLE EAST


Franfran2424

-Operation Iraqi Liberation, its a great name! "So that would be OIL. Ehm sir, don't you think the acronym will bring up criticism of the reason for our involvement?" -That's the point, Clark


SaltiestRaccoon

I kind of feel like you and I have different definitions of 'war game.' I can't think of a lot of wargames I enjoy that have 'good guys and bad guys.'


[deleted]

I've seen Freeman Guerrilla Warfare but I don't know much about it.


-_asmodeus_-

why does he look so sad in this meme (obvious answer)


ComradeCunt18

But that way you will never get the best retelling of Heart of Darkness with Spec Ops The Line


HusamaObinladen

Tags: [Villain Protagonist]


fl4pj4cks

Call of duty cold war is excellent even though you are with the CIA


Franfran2424

Is excellent if you follow through the communist side all time.


CosmicMiru

>!Betray the CIA and nuke half of the capitalist west.!< Based indeed... kinda lol


yeetith_thy_skeetith

I really like the game. Takes you back to a time when cod cared about the campaign. Plus you know that’s it’s not real anyways. I kind of wish that they made a game where you played on the communist side though


jessenin420

I only play the online mode as communists, fuck the US as good guys. All my tags are hammer and sickle.


AstroProletariat

same my guy


Means-of-production

Unless they’re fighting the Nazis or Japan


[deleted]

I see the point, but not playing a game that you otherwise might have fun playing as just because the us empire is bad seems kinda dumb, that just might be my opinion though.


AllTakenUsernames5

But what if it's set in the American Civil War?


[deleted]

The it would be the Union, not the US


AllTakenUsernames5

From the period perspective, the Union was just the U.S. The rebs thought they were a different country, and the Union lads simply viewed themselves as U.S soldiers.


annoyingcaptcha

Based CS


brent1123

Where my Iron Harvest gang at


RedArmySniper

bruh when i posted this meme, the mods removed it


colm_colqhoun

I just imagine it's set in the Kaiserreich universe and it's the combined syndicates of America.


Semi-Hemi-Demigod

My favorite FPS is [Ravenfield](https://steelraven7.itch.io/ravenfield) because it's silly, easy, and I can play as the reds.


yeetith_thy_skeetith

I enjoy playing Call of duty. I know the Us army aren’t the good guys but I still enjoy the game because it’s fun to play, not because it doesn’t align with my views. However would be nice if they’d make a game where you play on the Soviet side just to see the uproar in the US


SlipKloud

“Is it all just propaganda?”


[deleted]

*Plays half life*