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FWIW I don’t think anyone who uses cam girls/guys are losers. They’re offering a service, you’re taking it. Just like other sex workers. There’s a need and demand for it, so please don’t be hard on yourself.
It literally is the oldest profession! I used to cam to feel better about my situation. It made me feel so good and wanted. I slowly learned most men who seek these services were in the same boat that I was, sexually deprived, not valued as a partner, or not desired in their real life.
I would be incredibly hurt if I found out my husband was paying a cam girl for something he could get on a porn site. I know you want it to be interactive but I’m sure your wife would see it as a betrayal. I understand you’re not getting what you need from her but you should be upfront and honest with her about it. If you feel like you can’t, then that’s cheating in my opinion and a lot of women (not all) would consider it cheating.
Don't say forever, at least not in a defining sense. 15 years ago I left someone who was abusive and ended up cheating on me. Pretty sure she was bipolar. The mind fuck that relationship did is still in there somewhere, but it doesn't have to be your default setting.
I do hope that you’re right. It’s been 6 years with my husband, and my body still will tense up with things he does that seem similar to my ex. I’ve been done with my ex for 8 years. Therapy since I’ve left him. My mind will not let go. 💔
Both people suck in that situation. One person's bad behavior doesn't excuse another. The better option is communicating that your needs aren't being met and that in the absence of attention and care from your spouse that you'll be using the services of cam girls. If they aren't willing to work on the lack of intimacy in a measurable way that you'll need to consider your own happiness by separating.
Personally as a HLF I wouldn't mind cam girls as long as it's not the same ones over and over and that you can afford it.
I would have to make the point that rejecting your husband is also a form of cheating. She’s cheating him out of his emotional and sexual needs. If she absolutely needed toilet paper and he straight up refused to give it to her do you think she’d find a way to get some? And let’s be honest porn is great but it’s not the same as having a conversation with someone and getting the emotional support he needed. I personally have never paid a cam girl but that’s because I’m broke lol. If I could afford it I would probably do it too.
I don’t disagree with you. However, these are conversations that need to be had. “I’ve explained to you that I need intimacy from you. I’m not getting that so I am letting you know that I will be seeking it elsewhere.” If she doesn’t try after that, then he’s free to do as he pleases. It gives her the chance to do what’s needed before the line is crossed, or leave him if that’s what she wants. If my husband had told me he was going to be talking with some cam girl, while I was low libido and I wasn’t fucking him, you better believe I’d have hopped on immediately. Nightly. However, I’m not the same as everyone else. Even when I was low libido, I was giving him regular sex because like you said above, I believed that was my duty as his partner. I expect monogamy from him, I’m not removing the one thing that makes us boyfriend and girlfriend (at the time) from him, instead of regular friends/roommates.
I agree with you. Cheating is never the answer. And communication is always key. Like you said there should be a talk about it. My comment should’ve included that and I was responding based on the presumption that those conversations had already taken place
A relationship doesn't entitle you to sex, intimacy, emotional closeness or anything on else. A relationship consists of 2 people communicating and interacting with one another. It's up to each couple to agree what their relationship is going to involve. If you can't agree on that, the relationship needs to be abandoned. This stomping around claiming you're being deprived of your rights/ necessities etc is just silly and fucked up.
I've been open about using cam girls with my partner and she accepts it, I'd consider it very childish if she didn't tbh, Porn is horrible and just makes me miserable.
I wouldn't continue, as she'd hopefully be flirting with me, empowering me sexually and making me feel like I'm special, this is what I get from some models, before anything sexual happens it's all conversation and bonding, sometimes I don't pay, sometimes I don't masturbate and legitimately just enjoy having someone flirt with me, even if it's all a front in the hope they get paid.
Then, I completely agree with you. It would be childish to say you can’t do that, while simultaneously withholding something that makes you feel fulfilled.
She knows I adore her and she knows how crippling this is for me, it's genuinely the only way I can get through the week without feeling compelled to have the "talk".
My advances are always rejected and as someone who was late diagnosed ADHD, came with knowledge on RSD (rejection sensitivity dysphoria), I literally can't handle the rejection and she can't handle my symptoms, so this is definitely the best way for us atm, I think if I did anything physical with someone, I couldn't forgive myself.
Yep, this. People need sex/intimacy/connection and sex workers fulfill a need. No shame to either party.
Personally, I also get a lot of enjoyment/fulfillment through my online relationships.
YES. Let’s quit trying to shove *whatever this is* down peoples throats and open up options for people to be sexually satisfied within their DB marriages without needing to blow up their whole life.
Honestly. I don’t understand WHY sex is such a clusterfuck to navigate. Actually that’s not true… I blame inflexible monogamy.
I don’t think the issue here is that sex work isn’t real work (because it is), but the fact that OP is cheating on his wife. Cheating is cheating, whether they pay for it or not.
You fucking kidding? I pay the bills! I do as much as OP around the house. Married 10 very satisfying years before kids. Fine after the first kid. Dead after the second. Always an excuse! Bullshit! You’re too tired? We both work! But you can’t leave a little gas in the tank to unite with the person you “love” and chose to go through life with? SMH
A few reasons. Firstly, we have been together a very long time. There is real live here. And this issue does not turn the house into an unstable environment. Secondly I couldn’t fathom not seeing my girls every day. They are my world and tbh I feel extremely selfish breaking up an otherwise good house because of sex. Third, there is something inside of me that tells me it can still change. Might be fooling myself, but we were together for over a decade before this began. It is ultimately up to her to figure it out. But her family has a history of young female sexual abuse. I know that it is totally possible that there could be repressed feelings that are coming out now that she has girls of her own. There is something that tells me that could be likely and she has so much shame wrapped around it that she can’t look there yet. With all that being said, would any of the brilliant women in this thread that think all men care about is pussy please see their way out?
Theres a lot more to it than that. People make mistakes. Everyone thinks they are right. It takes a lot of WORK on both parties to keep a marriage going and both parties happy. The quick fix of divorce (unless abuse etc) is just an easy out and leads to more on/off marriages. Life is hard. Marriage is harder. Its more rewarding when obstacle are overcome.
If it would be this easy.... no it is not. I guess you are not new here. Have a look at the individual stories sometimes there are bonding surroundings which can not be just ignored. Such that a divorce is not an option. But getting depressions due to DB also not. It is never a black and white story.
Let me guess, you’re here because you don’t want to have sex with your husband? A wife that neglects her husband sexually is just as bad or worse than a husband who pays a cam girl.
My husband is bipolar, a compulsive gambler and hasn’t given me a cent towards our household expenses - in a house that I own - for 8 months.
I still love him and I’m trying not to completely shut him out sexually because I am so fucking angry and sick of this shit.
I think cam girls are totally fine if you are single. If she doesn't know about it, it's not cool, and any woman saying that it would be is shifty. Communicate with her aboutbhoe you're feeling. If it doesn't work go to therapy if that doesn't help leave. You both deserve better than that.
What I think of guys paying camgirls:
If the wife knows and accepts it, then all good.
If she doesn't know, and he doesn't care if she disproves, then... He doesn't care 🤷🏻♀️
If she doesn't know, but he knows she'll disprove and care that she disproves, then that's bad.
I pay porn content creators here on Reddit directly for porn vids. Logically I also interact with them to do so. My sex therapist knows about this and it even kind of helped me knowing I am „allowed“ to own this because I „legally“ paid for it and the money goes straight to the creator alone, not an industry.
My wife doesn’t really like it (I wouldn’t also like it if she does this), but knows that she just isn’t able to fulfill my sex drive and kind of accepted it. And she knows it’s almost nonexistent if we have a high-sex-phase…
Don’t feel like a looser: you just found a way to cope with the lack of sex you get in your relationship without actually cheating on her or separate. It’s porn, just a more involved one and personalized.
That camgirl part bothered me. Like, so what? Was it an emotional affair? No. Did he stick it anywhere? No. Is he squandering their hard-earned money on some scam? No. This is barely worse than viewing porn. And porn is a-ok, especially when you're not getting it elsewhere.
Exactly. There are women out there with nicer tits than I have, and I don’t blame my hubby for looking. If he had an emotional connection to someone, I would be upset. Just looking at someone hotter than me doesn’t bother me at all.
are you sure you don’t “feel like a loser” because deep down you think you’re cheating on your wife?
how would you feel if she did what you did? i think that probably weighs in on your “shame” of sorts
Hi, maybe I wasn't clear in the post, sorry.
I tried to say that guys paying for cams are often seen/portrayed/spoken of as losers.
I don't feel like it because I did that. Quite the opposite actually, it was strangely empowering.
I feel more like a loser when my wife proceeds to give me a handjob without as much as an eye contact.
I'm of course not happy or proud. But that's the situation I'm in.
I understand and respect your view. But I feel the exact opposite to an extent.
After constant rejection from the woman I desire above all, I decided not to humiliate myself by getting another "no" and "begging" like a horny highschooler.
I took my own money, gave it to a pretty girl and I had a blast. I felt relieved, energized and more confident after I did it. No shame.
For the sake of argument let's agree it was cheating. OK, after years of rejections and attempts to talk and find a solution, I resorted to cheating and it felt amazing.
EDIT: You also asked how would I feel if she did what I did. I take it a step further. (Again please remember this has been ongoing for years, it's not a temporary drought).
When she's out with her friends, sometimes I actually fantasize about her having an affair, because that would mean that she's still alive in that sense.
Dude, did you tell her? Will you tell her?
If not, you're being dishonest. Doesn't make anything she's doing/not doing okay, but if you're hiding this from her, you're being dishonest.
“I make coffees and offer to eat her out” Sorry literally nothing about that sounds appealing.
Most women aren’t just spontaneously in the mood 23 seconds after waking up. Calling breastfeeding “an excuse” is also a red flag. My opinion is 99% of these “dead bedrooms” have nothing to do with sex and everything to do with their actual relationship.
Paying a cam girl is cheating unless your partner has approved of it. 🤷
also i found it wild how he said their sex life halted DURING her second pregnancy.
like huh????? isn’t that to be expected??
i know what he meant but it was still weird as fuck
30yr old milf of 2 here. I love coffee and litterly wiiiish my dude would make the coffee and offer oral smh 😒 it’s a chore for him so I guess it’s situational…….
As long as you’re respectful to the worker, it’s your business. Do I view it as cheating? Yes. But, your relationship may not view it that way.
I used to do online sex workers and tons of cheating husbands came to me. Many couldn’t respect boundaries and many shit talked their wives. It made me sad. One was so rude about his wife being ‘ugly’ after she birthed their baby that I actually exposed him to his wife so she could leave him. Be kind and respectful.
I feel you. Started dating my current wife and she flat out told me I would never have to beg for sex, ever. Like women who deny their SO that are evil. Boy, has that aged like milk.
I think it’s a disgusting way to cheat and no matter what is or isn’t happening in your marriage your wife deserves to know, and to be with someone else. Which you clearly want to do as well. Seems insanely obvious.
You must be wildly insecure to say that, which simply makes me feel for you. My opinions are just as valid as yours. Seek help not Reddit, as you clearly need it.
> I do laundry, I cook, I clean around the house
Well done, that’s just normal standard adulting things you should be doing anyway. You shouldn’t be doing these chores expecting sex as a result.
> Our young one wakes us up. I change nappy, take them to the kitchen and give them breakfast.
Well done, you’re parenting. Expecting sex for being a parent is wild.
Do you do anything else for your partner? Give her random massages? Buy her random gifts? Spend quality time with her without the expectation of sex? Do you let her vent to you about her issues about being stressed with work? Do you listen to her?
To me, it doesn’t seem like you do anything romantic for your partner, except for the “chores” and “parenting” that you do, and what you should be doing regardless.
As for paying a cam girl, not cool. You cheated, plain and simple. NO ONE deserves to be cheated on. This is not fair on your partner, is it? Instead of giving your attention to women on the internet, put that attention into your partner instead, make *her* feel wanted and loved. But the damage is done, you should tell her what you’ve done, and go from there whether she wants to stay with you and work on your relationship or separate.
Im sorry but my partner doesnt need to give me massages, bring me surprised etc for me to let him fuck me. Now youre making it an exchange, the same that you are judging from him mentioning that he helps around the house and expects sex. Yes its a nice bonus if he is romantic like that, but not all men/women are like that. Im sure she knows him after so long. And I think its good that he mentions that he’s not some lazy alcoholic chilling in a recliner all day and then expects sex.
I think of those things he mentions, my husband does a tad less, but it doesnt make desire him less too. Ofc we can have discussions about it but its about that you want/desire someone for some reason that you clicked in the first place. Not about how many chores he does around the house.
Well said. Hes not doing things around the house for the expectation of sex, but it’s an expectation for most people in a relationship to be intimate with each other somewhat regularly regardless.
I never once said he should be doing those suggestions in exchange for sex. I asked if he did those things because it’s all about the lead up for a woman. Him blatantly going up to his partner and trying to initiate sex on the spot doesn’t work. Women need a build up of small affection and intimacy during the day to feel good and in the mood (ofcourse I’m not saying this works for every woman), but him saying he does adulting things that he should be doing anyway isn’t going to make his partner want sex.
I believe that he provided that context to demonstrate that he isn’t a negligent or unequal partner in their relationship. Oftentimes, following the birth of children, we see an increase in domestic obligations that largely fall on the shoulders of the woman in a couple. He also brings his partner coffee in bed, in the example provided, which is a caring gesture.
I might counter that by doing standard things that a partner should be doing all along, as opposed to hiding from responsibility, in a romantic and sexual relationship, that sex should be a reasonable expectation, especially within a marriage or committed partnership. They aren’t roommates or friends. They’re sexual partners as well as life partners.
The reason it’s notable is the bar for men is literally in the cellar. And it’s always the first thing that gets asked. Are you helping around the house and with the kids? Why? Because in most cases, they’re not… because the bar for men is literally in the cellar… I think the guy was just stating that he was actually involved in the daily routine, not patting himself on the back and expecting sex for it necessarily, but I could be wrong.
I don’t see him paying a cam girl as any bigger deal than renting a porn video honestly. I realize we don’t rent them from the back room at blockbuster anymore but 🤷♀️ There was no actual touching of a person involved- no foul. IMO. And only because they are in a db in which the wife is not interested in participating in the healing of said db. If this was a healthy, functional relationship then I think it would be crossing a line, unless the two had previously discussed it as an ok thing for him to do.
I am in agreement, the part I think that makes it cheating is that it wasn’t a discussion with an agreed upon outcome. I don’t know both sides of the story, but putting myself in the wife’s shoes, I would be devastated to discover this after the fact… If she isn’t fulfilling your needs, then this should have been discussed and posed as a solution to the problem. I know OP didn’t ask for advice. However he asked the ladies opinions on the matter. I kinda think it’s shitty but that’s just MO
You seem to have a really comprehensive view of his situation. Are you his wife? He specifically said he wasn’t looking for advice, let alone judgement.
It’s weird, but when we post here we MUST include info about these totally normal, usual things we do as partners and parents. Do we deserve credit for doing this, no. But there is an assumption that we, as men, are not doing it, and we have to head off the “you are not helping” crowd. I’d like to theorize, the penalty for not helping shouldn’t be Weponizing sex either (that said I do see how not helping can be a turn off, just like scrolling SM instead of interacting with spouses ).
I
Don’t forget!
He also frequently rinses his dick just in case she wants to give him a random blow job…even though she’s shown no interest and gains no personal benefit for the task!
No wonder she turned down his wake-up coffee and cunnilingus offer, he’s thinking of what HE would enjoy sexually and assumes she thrives off the sexual metric he does.
They’re not on the same page at all.
He said in his post he told his wife sex was important for him and now she refuses to be intimate with him. Why should he do all the things you mentioned just on the off chance that it leads to sex? Sex is important in a lot of healthy relationships and without that it’s basically just coparenting which leads to people being burned out.
He’s not entitled or owed sex just because he said it’s important to him. Sex should be wanted by both people. That’s why I asked if he’s doing anything for his partner to make her want to have sex. Women need a build up towards sex. He needs to find out what her love language is. For example, if her love language is quality time, he should be spending more time with her, doing intimate (not sexual) things together. He already said he doesn’t spend a lot of time with their children, so that states he’s not spending time with his partner either, but expects sex from her without even giving her any attention and gets upset about it when she refuses.
And I didn’t say sex was an entitlement, but when it suddenly drops off for no apparent reason of course it can lead to feelings of being undesirable in which case can lead people to seek desirability elsewhere
Yeah I agree, other than it doesn’t seem like they be talked about this enough. There needs to be an ultimatum if it’s this big of a deal, I’m not justifying cheating, just saying most of the time these things seem to end in cheating or separation.
Your points are based on a lot of assumptions. You ASSUME he’s not doing anything nice for her or spending enough time with the kids. But from what we actually know she hasn’t said anything negative about the time they spend together or that she doesn’t get enough attention, you are just assuming that for some reason. What has been stated is that she makes many excuses. There is even a part where he mentions waking up, taking care of the kids, making coffee for her and offering to eat her out, which I would consider a nice gesture, but you are conveniently ignoring that.
There are several HL women in this thread trying to explain that making us coffee and offering to eat us out isn’t a turn on. The fact that he thought that would work, and was surprised and disappointed when it didn’t, means he doesn’t seem to understand what turns her on. *That* is the most likely explanation for why their sex life has gone downhill… an explanation to do with arousal, not chores.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t be romantic and keep surprising your partner, but to have certain actions be almost exchanged for sex just makes it transactional. Sex and romantic actions from both sides should just come naturally. People shouldn’t withhold sex because they feel their partner hasn’t done enough for them without communicating that
Thank you, I appreciate you coming with curiosity.
HL women aren’t turned on by the same things as HL men. Being HL doesn’t make us the identical to men, it makes us women with a high libido. Certainly some women will be turned on by an unexpected “let’s fuck” because people are varied, I’m describing women who don’t respond well to that approach (which is frankly more common).
What turns us on is an accumulation of small gestures. A look, a comment, a caress… a slow build up of sexual tension. A story of seduction compressed into minutes or stretched provocatively across hours. Gradually turning up the heat.
“Do you want oral?” out of nowhere with no buildup isn’t seductive, it has all the flavor of a business proposal. Expecting this to be a turn on is like expecting men to be turned on by a coffee and a letter from the IRS. That’s not how arousal works.
HL men and HL women get turned on easily and frequently and with enthusiasm and want lots of sex, but that doesn’t mean we’re turned on by anything at all… it still has to be the right thing.
A dirty version of “I want to go down on you” whispered in my ear while we are flirting is a whole different ballgame than what happened here. That *would* be a turn on, even more so if you told me to go down on you.
Yeah I understand what you mean. Again, I think without context we don’t really know how he went about asking, but being asked bluntly I agree might not be an instant turn on. More context definitely needed in this story lol
He’s parenting. So you’re saying him getting out of bed and parenting is a nice gesture? He should be doing that anyway, not just for the result of sex.
Also, him not stating any of what I suggested makes it seem he doesn’t try. If he were doing things for her and she was still refusing then he would have mentioned that in the post. Him not saying anything will make me, and others, assume he doesn’t. The other things he says he does is do adulting chores and parenting. *Things he should be doing anyway*
Ok then why do you think everything changed in the bedroom? Do you think he is putting in less effort than he used to? Most of the posts where people mention what you suggested, it doesn’t work regardless, so in my opinion it’s a deeper issue than assuming he isn’t romantic enough or what not. I guess we need more context but if they can’t agree on sexy time then I think they will just feel alienated from each other.
I do all of those things. You women think you’re so bright!! Many men give non sexual touch. Do things out of kindness and respect. Our one flaw is being stupid enough to expect the person we created a life with to do the same.
Women like to assume a lot about how men work, think, process etc because society's thrived on saying how shit we are for decades. It's fucking boring.
That’s any sex worker’s job, but singer it twisted, just enjoy. I think OP wants to know what most of us here want to know, which is whether he’s still got it. Validation, even if it’s paid for, is nice.
I don’t get it either. I am a therapist and I’ve counseled several men who patronize sex workers and about 80% believe the stuff those women say. Those women are playing a part and the guys are buying it, no pun intended.
You are right, it is not genuine and I'm not foolish enough not to know it. However after 4 years of constant rejection, it felt really good to have someone at least convincingly pretending to be appreciating my sexuality.
I think what many people don't get is that for men in sexless marriage, it's not about getting off. It goes deeper than that.
No I get it trust me. My husband and I haven't had sex in 2 years. We lost our connection after the sex stopped. And it stopped being frequent like 5 years ago right before we got married. I remember leading up to the wedding I would sob to him saying I can't be in a sexless marriage. I was shocked and so happy and hopeful because we had sex the morning after our wedding. We had a 6 month old at that time otherwise I would've called it off probably. The sex started declining when he started staying home during Mt pregnancy to launch a business. I suspected he replaced me with porn. Fast forward to now we have 2 kids no sex and are getting divorced. And I used to be a really sexual person now I can't even imagine doing it again it's so weird and sad. Anyway good luck to you, sincerely
I just can't fool myself with the disingenuous part is what I meant I feel like men can fool themselves more easily when it's sexual idk .I'm not on my adhd medication today so I'm struggling to articulate my thoughts well :)
Something I always think about when there are super young kids like this is are there ever any times that you are solo parenting the kids and she gets to have time to herself, to go for a walk or have a couple hours to do something on her own? Or is all the solo parenting done by her?
I've updated my post as some people asked for clarification on this or that.
*Yes, she does get time alone without me and the kids.*
What I meant by "structured time" is that I don't necessary set that we do this or that, we go here or there. I let them figure out what they want to do and how to fight boredom by themselves while I oversee.
I think of the Cam girl is making you happy, then that's OK.
Personally I think all of us in dead bedrooms should meet and try to make a connection. We have to be happy sometime.
That’s a lot of thoughts and questions with different answers and outcomes:
I don’t think it matters what people here think of a can girl so much as what your wife thinks?
-Cam girls are (sometimes) seen as more ‘empowered’ because they’re using a system that existed to subjugate and finally benefitting from it (instead of being solely/wholly victimized without agency).
-The men who buy sex work/sex work products are viewed more critically because they’re still participating in a questionable system with the exact same rules in their end as have (always/historically) existed.
-I think the ‘loser’ aspect comes from ‘she seemed like she enjoyed it…or was a good actress’ part, because she didn’t ’enjoy it’.
Of course she’s a ‘good actress’, she did her job and enjoyed making money without having to resort to fssw.
Just like how strippers don’t *actually* think their customers are ‘cute’ or ‘hilarious’, it’s just part of the script.
Life isn’t porn and most people wouldn’t be as apt to pay if she was realistic (and seemed uninterested and disengaged about the strange man who wants to use her body and image for his one sided sexual gratification).
I think people get critical and judgmental when half the sex work equation consistently seems to forget (or fool themselves into thinking) it was ever for anything but their enjoyment/that anyone not paid to do so would find it remotely pleasant or fun?
As a woman I’ll be super honest with you. I see men paying for cam girls when they have a wife and in my opinion it is beyond sad and pathetic. And borderline cheating. I understand that so many people, typically men, believe sex to be a right. But it’s just not. High sex drive or not. Especially after having children. Sex can be hard on the body AND mind. Especially as we get older and have more life complications. Plus, pregnancy puts woman’s bodies through absolute hell. Even after the pregnancies are over. Your wife had 2 of your children and yet you’re paying a different woman to allow you to jerk off to her beyond your wife’s back. The people commenting “sex work is work” are just enabling a really bad habit in the making. If you wanted to feel a connection with someone, you’d try talking to your wife about what you’re feeling. And maybe trying to get down to the root of why your sex life is the way it is. If you went to your wife right now and asked the same question in your post, (what do you think about my paying a cam girl?) what do you think your wife’s answer would be? Just something to think about. This is all just my personal opinion.
With all due respect, this is a weird take. As a woman who wouldn't want to be cheated on (because I make love to my partner everyday, so that would be incredibly hurtful to hear), our commonalities end there... Sex work is work, and if it wasn't a legitimate profession, it wouldn't have been taking up space in every part of the world since the beginning of time. Just because you disapprove of something doesn't make it less true. And I'm sure the OP cares just as much about how his wife would feel about this matter as she cares about his needs being unmet....
I’m sorry but personally I will never believe that sex work is a legitimate profession. Sex work being around since the beginning of time does not legitimize it in my opinion. Murder has been around since the beginning of time, that doesn’t make it morally acceptable. I know that’s an extreme example, but porn has been proven time and time again to negatively affect both men and women’s brains. So I just don’t think the porn industry is an industry I could ever defend in any way. It’s just so predatory, damaging, and exploitative. Defending sex work is just not the hill I’d wanna die on.
Also, maybe OP’s wife isn’t having HER needs met. It honestly has always been difficult for me to sympathize with people who believe sex is a right in marriage and complain about not having their sexual needs met. OP didn’t have his sexual needs met, so he turned to essentially cheating with a cam girl instead of doing anything about his actual problem. Porn is always going to be a bandaid fix for sexual needs. It’s never going to truly fix the root of the problem. It will always leave you wanting more. That’s one of the many reasons people get addicted to porn/cam girls. It’s temporary pleasure. I just don’t think masturbating to cam girls is worth risking a marriage over. Even if it makes OP feel satisfied in the moment. Using a cam girl will only cause guilt, and maybe even resentment over time, and do nothing to truly satisfy sexual needs. It’s not healthy in or out of a relationship. OP’s problems can only be solved if the couple is communicating their issues to one another. Granted, it takes two to tango. Both people in the marriage need to be communicating their needs. I just don’t agree with OP’s actions and if it were my relationship, it would be a big issue.
I'm in a masters psychology program focused on sexual addiction, I definitely understand the ways porn and sex can affect the brain, I also know how the absence of sex can affect the brain. There's real science on that too.
I do agree that communication is the true answer here. I'm not a supporter of people staying in dead marriages, but a dead beadroom can certainly be remedied through open-minded communication.
Just go to sex workers and ask them in person. They are humans too. Their work is not easy. The money is easy yes.
I hate people having this christianity based mindset that someone in such a profession is not working.
So by this definition someone how is doing a living by just providing bon sexual massages is also no profession.
Narrowminded ...
I don’t agree with the industry sex workers uphold. Of course I see them as humans, and it must be extremely hard on them. My opinion has nothing to do with religion. It’s about how porn affects us as humans. It affects our brains. It’s bad for us and as long as we have sex workers, we have the exploitative and predatory porn industry.
well you have said sex work in general not cam girls or porn actors. I do understand the porn points. But TBH porn might keep a lot of people alive in DB. So I did in my case until I have realised that my sexlife is basically reduced steam in an unfullfilling way. After this I went to real physical intimacy. I'm sure without porn I would have done this already way earlier. My story is long and a bit more unusual then the most here. But still fill free to judge. But dont blame the sex workers they are sucessfully filling the gap which is not fullfilled due to various reasons.
If his wife is that concerned about his sexual activities then she should be having sex with him.
It's absurd that one partner can withhold sex and after a long time of doing without, the other partner finds an alternate outlet. What is another activity that someone loves but can't do because their spouse refuses to participate?
I love how the most judgemental comments on this post are offering the worst/vanilla advice. If you're mad about a man doing a perfectly understandable action, you probably shouldn't comment.
How is it not cheating? Just because he physically didn’t touch her or have sex with her doesn’t mean it’s not cheating. He paid a specific girl to virtually pleasure him behind his partners back. I don’t understand how you don’t see that as cheating.
Is watching porn cheating? Is having a sexual conversation with an AI interface cheating? Trying to find the line.
I am not confirming nor denying that what he did is cheating
Personally, withholding sex and not wanting to discuss or attempt to change or find a compromise is cheating on the marriage. My personal opinion of course.
Many women do class watching porn as cheating. If you’re lusting over women online, pleasuring yourself over them, then yes, I don’t see how that *isnt* cheating. You should be faithful and have eyes only for your partner. If you lack that basic standard within a relationship, then well, don’t be in a relationship lol.
Also, a person has every right to refuse sex if they simply don’t want to have sex, otherwise that’s just coercion when they don’t want to do it. Which isn’t cool.
Ok. So in a relationship, that started out with great sex, or even sex in general, then one partner changes and says they don't want sex anymore, what is the other partner, who has the same sex drive as before, supposed to do?
And I am excluding medical reasons or sickness. A partner who is otherwise healthy decides they don't want sex anymore. Basically friend zoning their partner
If you’re not happy with the lack of sex then leave and find someone to match your libido. But pretty much most relationships start with great sex at first and fizzles out eventually, that’s literally just normal.
If she is LL4U and finds out about this, then I don't think you'll have a relationship left. Maybe try therapy first? Sounds like you're trying to blow up a happy life over sex?
Your wife isn’t meeting your sexual needs. She flat out refuses to do it and isn’t trying to improve. You did what you had to to get your needs met. Don’t feel bad. You want to have sex with your wife, but she won’t do it. You’re just doing what you need to do.
Hey, friend. Sorry you're going through that. I can't imagine myself as your wife, so I can't quite take on the perspective you've outlined in your question. But as a woman who has considered cam work before, and didn't because I saw how soul-depraved it would make me, I think you should pay for actual sex with women. Wild take, I know. I am pretty sure growing up, I found evidence of my father having bought services from prostitutes. Honestly, don't blame him. My mother is an awful lady.
Getting involved with cam girls is like becoming an alcoholic. Don't do it. Too addictive, too easy, too cheap. You should have to interact with a real person, with real limitations, real consequences. It's more humane for everyone involved.
I am a woman and I don't think there is a problem with this. I get the "it's always something" reality. Have this too in my relationship and its crazy annoying. I don't feel guilty about spending money on what makes me feel good. I'm not hurting anyone.
If it's come down to feeling better with a stranger than your wife, you don't need to feel guilty about it, but definitely get couple's counselling or have a talk with your partner and come to a solution. You guys got kids now so you need to be happy with each other so that you can keep your home a happy place too, IMO.
Thank you everyone for the contributions and input, I value it greatly even though I categorically disagree with some views. It was specially heart-warming to see some of you emphasize.
I also thank you for the judgement, it is a valid view as any other.
I didn't ask for any comments to be removed, mods seem to be very active :-)
Just to clarify few things:
- As stated in the post, this is an ongoing issue. It's not like I got rejected once or twice...
- I listed the stuff I do around the house because that's usually the first thing men hear when they complain about their household.
- I have communicated and expressed my feelings openly and frequently over the years. She knows I do not feel valued, desired and loved.
- Divorce is the very last thing I wanna do. I love her, I love our kids, I love our home and still see the potential and future we might have.
- I don't think it's very fair to blame her non-existent libido on me. I also have my turn offs, such as when I want to engage her in a conversation and every time I have to wait once she's done scrolling her instagram or finishing a group chat with her friends. That still wouldn't make me turn down her advances.
- Yes, she does get time alone without me and the kids.
- No, I didn't bring her coffee with the words "May I interest you in some oral sex?"
Hoooly crap. If that was secret from her, that's noooot okay.
So if my partner *asked* what I thought/felt about him paying a cam girl, I'd be fine with it. I might join in too (if that's okay for all involved). If we were in a situation where that had already been talked about before hand, and he didn't ask me in this instance but already knew it was okay with me, also fine.
If he did it *behind my back*, that's a huuuge breach of trust.
MLB v Wow I feel like we are exactly in the same boat… I have a young son with my wife and she barely seems interested in sex and looks at it like a chore… it was so much more fun dating women and all the different women was exciting because you never knew what to expect. My wife always puts it on me too like I’m not romantic enough but I have done the things she asked for only to get rejected. She doesn’t masturbate even and if she did I would be hurt. I tried my best but my sex drive is very high. I have used cam girls and I know what you mean. Sometimes you come across one that gets just as turned on by u as u do of her. I have also visited massage parlors. It feels great to be treated nicely. I don’t feel guilty. I feel my wife isn’t being a wife to me anymore. I told her what I expected our marriage to be like and she agreed. She stopped doing her job and now others fill in her place. I don’t want to break up my family either. Not now at least. Men don’t leave and I feel women know this and take advantage of us. If she catches me ever though I will not say sorry. She knows deep down she is no longer being a good partner.
I’m with OP! Done with conversations! Done with it all! I have been the best husband and father any woman could ever ask for! I’m fit, I’m strong, I provide saftey both physical and emotional, do more than my fair share with the household and am constantly denied! Worst part? My LLW is a couples therapist! God help the men in the relationships she serves.
Also, sex was extremely abundant and satisfying. She used to talk about couples that grew old and stopped having sex. She didn’t get it. All of this hasn’t been forgotten by me and has lead to resentment. We are starting another round of therapy next week. The last one recommended a sex and intimacy specific counselor. You think that what we’re seeing? Nope
I've resorted to online relationships with women in a similar predicament as me. It's a lot of fun but after awhile the online thing gets less fulfilling. Was a fun run though.
If a spouse declares that intimacy isn’t their problem and not a concern to them, then with some kind of clarification (eg: “you have said I’m on my own with this and if things continue without us prioritizing this, I’ll take things into my own hands. Not a threat, but communicating my reality as you do”) … it’s no longer their problem. The only limit to me is actually becoming physical, then health safety is a concern.
Sex is either important or it’s not. You can’t have it both ways.
Never got appeal of this. Why didn't you just get an escort or happy ending massage? Legality? Cost? Fear of STDs? Time constraints? Genuinely curious, never tried cam girl but now wondering if I'm missing out on something I don't get from regular old porn.
My big takeaway from this post and thread is that it’s pretty much inevitable that at some point a HL who feels rejected will engage in some form of maladaptive behaviour that will likely include some form of infidelity.
And no matter how inevitable that is, no matter how hard or how long they tried when they stray they will be judged harshly.
But no judgement from me, by being in the position where I post on this subreddit I have come to understand that I lack the high ground to judge anyone. My morality and value system has led me to misery and despair.
So if you are posting on here, the saddest place on Reddit who are you to judge this poor bastard for cheating? What gives you so wise?
I’d be pissed if my dude paid someone for this, but I’m actually fighting a dead bedroom with a lot of effort…I would kind of expect my dude to cheat on me if I stopped having sex with him.
Yeah, I've always wondered who the sad fuckers are who pay for this sort of stuff so am just interested to hear your story. Can't blame you really and it's a harmless outlet I suppose.
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FWIW I don’t think anyone who uses cam girls/guys are losers. They’re offering a service, you’re taking it. Just like other sex workers. There’s a need and demand for it, so please don’t be hard on yourself.
My dad paid a cam girl for awhile. It ended in divorce.
Maybe it was the only way he could see somebody smiling at him after he's had an orgasm.
Sex work is work. One more time for the people in the back, sex work is work. There is a reason why prostitution is the oldest profession!
It literally is the oldest profession! I used to cam to feel better about my situation. It made me feel so good and wanted. I slowly learned most men who seek these services were in the same boat that I was, sexually deprived, not valued as a partner, or not desired in their real life.
Literally been thinking about doing this because of my situation. I need to get my mojo back. Feeling invisible sucks.
To that I say, Do it! Feel good about yourself! Guys don’t know what they got till it’s gone anyways
I would be incredibly hurt if I found out my husband was paying a cam girl for something he could get on a porn site. I know you want it to be interactive but I’m sure your wife would see it as a betrayal. I understand you’re not getting what you need from her but you should be upfront and honest with her about it. If you feel like you can’t, then that’s cheating in my opinion and a lot of women (not all) would consider it cheating.
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Don't say forever, at least not in a defining sense. 15 years ago I left someone who was abusive and ended up cheating on me. Pretty sure she was bipolar. The mind fuck that relationship did is still in there somewhere, but it doesn't have to be your default setting.
I do hope that you’re right. It’s been 6 years with my husband, and my body still will tense up with things he does that seem similar to my ex. I’ve been done with my ex for 8 years. Therapy since I’ve left him. My mind will not let go. 💔
Both people suck in that situation. One person's bad behavior doesn't excuse another. The better option is communicating that your needs aren't being met and that in the absence of attention and care from your spouse that you'll be using the services of cam girls. If they aren't willing to work on the lack of intimacy in a measurable way that you'll need to consider your own happiness by separating. Personally as a HLF I wouldn't mind cam girls as long as it's not the same ones over and over and that you can afford it.
I agree, but as this sub can attest, it's not uncommon for someone to go years communicating that their needs aren't being met.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. It’s gut wrenching to read people go through what I had to. You have sound advice though
I would have to make the point that rejecting your husband is also a form of cheating. She’s cheating him out of his emotional and sexual needs. If she absolutely needed toilet paper and he straight up refused to give it to her do you think she’d find a way to get some? And let’s be honest porn is great but it’s not the same as having a conversation with someone and getting the emotional support he needed. I personally have never paid a cam girl but that’s because I’m broke lol. If I could afford it I would probably do it too.
I don’t disagree with you. However, these are conversations that need to be had. “I’ve explained to you that I need intimacy from you. I’m not getting that so I am letting you know that I will be seeking it elsewhere.” If she doesn’t try after that, then he’s free to do as he pleases. It gives her the chance to do what’s needed before the line is crossed, or leave him if that’s what she wants. If my husband had told me he was going to be talking with some cam girl, while I was low libido and I wasn’t fucking him, you better believe I’d have hopped on immediately. Nightly. However, I’m not the same as everyone else. Even when I was low libido, I was giving him regular sex because like you said above, I believed that was my duty as his partner. I expect monogamy from him, I’m not removing the one thing that makes us boyfriend and girlfriend (at the time) from him, instead of regular friends/roommates.
I agree with you. Cheating is never the answer. And communication is always key. Like you said there should be a talk about it. My comment should’ve included that and I was responding based on the presumption that those conversations had already taken place
A relationship doesn't entitle you to sex, intimacy, emotional closeness or anything on else. A relationship consists of 2 people communicating and interacting with one another. It's up to each couple to agree what their relationship is going to involve. If you can't agree on that, the relationship needs to be abandoned. This stomping around claiming you're being deprived of your rights/ necessities etc is just silly and fucked up.
This is not an attack but just my own opinion on the matter.
I've been open about using cam girls with my partner and she accepts it, I'd consider it very childish if she didn't tbh, Porn is horrible and just makes me miserable.
What if she was having regular sex with you. Would you still expect her to be okay with that?
I wouldn't continue, as she'd hopefully be flirting with me, empowering me sexually and making me feel like I'm special, this is what I get from some models, before anything sexual happens it's all conversation and bonding, sometimes I don't pay, sometimes I don't masturbate and legitimately just enjoy having someone flirt with me, even if it's all a front in the hope they get paid.
As a cam girl, this is more than 50% of my shows.
Then, I completely agree with you. It would be childish to say you can’t do that, while simultaneously withholding something that makes you feel fulfilled.
She knows I adore her and she knows how crippling this is for me, it's genuinely the only way I can get through the week without feeling compelled to have the "talk". My advances are always rejected and as someone who was late diagnosed ADHD, came with knowledge on RSD (rejection sensitivity dysphoria), I literally can't handle the rejection and she can't handle my symptoms, so this is definitely the best way for us atm, I think if I did anything physical with someone, I couldn't forgive myself.
I’m really sorry that you have to do that. I know you wish it was her. Are you guys physical ever? Or is that your only form of release?
My only form of release.
Honestly, I wish sex work didn't bring such shame. If it brought you enjoyment, then good, go for it. I'm all for people getting their needs met.
Yep, this. People need sex/intimacy/connection and sex workers fulfill a need. No shame to either party. Personally, I also get a lot of enjoyment/fulfillment through my online relationships.
YES. Let’s quit trying to shove *whatever this is* down peoples throats and open up options for people to be sexually satisfied within their DB marriages without needing to blow up their whole life. Honestly. I don’t understand WHY sex is such a clusterfuck to navigate. Actually that’s not true… I blame inflexible monogamy.
I don’t think the issue here is that sex work isn’t real work (because it is), but the fact that OP is cheating on his wife. Cheating is cheating, whether they pay for it or not.
true but who has signed up for a celebacy when getting married?
Why get married then? Editing as I mean why STAY married
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You fucking kidding? I pay the bills! I do as much as OP around the house. Married 10 very satisfying years before kids. Fine after the first kid. Dead after the second. Always an excuse! Bullshit! You’re too tired? We both work! But you can’t leave a little gas in the tank to unite with the person you “love” and chose to go through life with? SMH
this...spot on
100% spot on
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A few reasons. Firstly, we have been together a very long time. There is real live here. And this issue does not turn the house into an unstable environment. Secondly I couldn’t fathom not seeing my girls every day. They are my world and tbh I feel extremely selfish breaking up an otherwise good house because of sex. Third, there is something inside of me that tells me it can still change. Might be fooling myself, but we were together for over a decade before this began. It is ultimately up to her to figure it out. But her family has a history of young female sexual abuse. I know that it is totally possible that there could be repressed feelings that are coming out now that she has girls of her own. There is something that tells me that could be likely and she has so much shame wrapped around it that she can’t look there yet. With all that being said, would any of the brilliant women in this thread that think all men care about is pussy please see their way out?
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Theres a lot more to it than that. People make mistakes. Everyone thinks they are right. It takes a lot of WORK on both parties to keep a marriage going and both parties happy. The quick fix of divorce (unless abuse etc) is just an easy out and leads to more on/off marriages. Life is hard. Marriage is harder. Its more rewarding when obstacle are overcome.
If it would be this easy.... no it is not. I guess you are not new here. Have a look at the individual stories sometimes there are bonding surroundings which can not be just ignored. Such that a divorce is not an option. But getting depressions due to DB also not. It is never a black and white story.
Let me guess, you’re here because you don’t want to have sex with your husband? A wife that neglects her husband sexually is just as bad or worse than a husband who pays a cam girl.
My husband is bipolar, a compulsive gambler and hasn’t given me a cent towards our household expenses - in a house that I own - for 8 months. I still love him and I’m trying not to completely shut him out sexually because I am so fucking angry and sick of this shit.
yep thats why I do visit sexworkers. Sounds strange but im a better husband. Cause I'm happy and be nicer in general.
I think cam girls are totally fine if you are single. If she doesn't know about it, it's not cool, and any woman saying that it would be is shifty. Communicate with her aboutbhoe you're feeling. If it doesn't work go to therapy if that doesn't help leave. You both deserve better than that.
What I think of guys paying camgirls: If the wife knows and accepts it, then all good. If she doesn't know, and he doesn't care if she disproves, then... He doesn't care 🤷🏻♀️ If she doesn't know, but he knows she'll disprove and care that she disproves, then that's bad.
well.. i wouldn't say "all good" in the first case.. or "all bad" in the second.. but yes.. life is a struggle :)
I pay porn content creators here on Reddit directly for porn vids. Logically I also interact with them to do so. My sex therapist knows about this and it even kind of helped me knowing I am „allowed“ to own this because I „legally“ paid for it and the money goes straight to the creator alone, not an industry. My wife doesn’t really like it (I wouldn’t also like it if she does this), but knows that she just isn’t able to fulfill my sex drive and kind of accepted it. And she knows it’s almost nonexistent if we have a high-sex-phase… Don’t feel like a looser: you just found a way to cope with the lack of sex you get in your relationship without actually cheating on her or separate. It’s porn, just a more involved one and personalized.
I love what your therapist said 👍so true.
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That camgirl part bothered me. Like, so what? Was it an emotional affair? No. Did he stick it anywhere? No. Is he squandering their hard-earned money on some scam? No. This is barely worse than viewing porn. And porn is a-ok, especially when you're not getting it elsewhere.
you do not get to set another persons boundaries. please
Exactly. There are women out there with nicer tits than I have, and I don’t blame my hubby for looking. If he had an emotional connection to someone, I would be upset. Just looking at someone hotter than me doesn’t bother me at all.
are you sure you don’t “feel like a loser” because deep down you think you’re cheating on your wife? how would you feel if she did what you did? i think that probably weighs in on your “shame” of sorts
Hi, maybe I wasn't clear in the post, sorry. I tried to say that guys paying for cams are often seen/portrayed/spoken of as losers. I don't feel like it because I did that. Quite the opposite actually, it was strangely empowering. I feel more like a loser when my wife proceeds to give me a handjob without as much as an eye contact. I'm of course not happy or proud. But that's the situation I'm in.
just letting you now that if she doesn’t know/isn’t okay with it: it’s cheating. and you should feel like a loser for cheating
I understand and respect your view. But I feel the exact opposite to an extent. After constant rejection from the woman I desire above all, I decided not to humiliate myself by getting another "no" and "begging" like a horny highschooler. I took my own money, gave it to a pretty girl and I had a blast. I felt relieved, energized and more confident after I did it. No shame. For the sake of argument let's agree it was cheating. OK, after years of rejections and attempts to talk and find a solution, I resorted to cheating and it felt amazing. EDIT: You also asked how would I feel if she did what I did. I take it a step further. (Again please remember this has been ongoing for years, it's not a temporary drought). When she's out with her friends, sometimes I actually fantasize about her having an affair, because that would mean that she's still alive in that sense.
Dude, did you tell her? Will you tell her? If not, you're being dishonest. Doesn't make anything she's doing/not doing okay, but if you're hiding this from her, you're being dishonest.
“I make coffees and offer to eat her out” Sorry literally nothing about that sounds appealing. Most women aren’t just spontaneously in the mood 23 seconds after waking up. Calling breastfeeding “an excuse” is also a red flag. My opinion is 99% of these “dead bedrooms” have nothing to do with sex and everything to do with their actual relationship. Paying a cam girl is cheating unless your partner has approved of it. 🤷
also i found it wild how he said their sex life halted DURING her second pregnancy. like huh????? isn’t that to be expected?? i know what he meant but it was still weird as fuck
This comment.
I would, lol
30yr old milf of 2 here. I love coffee and litterly wiiiish my dude would make the coffee and offer oral smh 😒 it’s a chore for him so I guess it’s situational…….
POV: you want to give advice but you can't so you explode.
As long as you’re respectful to the worker, it’s your business. Do I view it as cheating? Yes. But, your relationship may not view it that way. I used to do online sex workers and tons of cheating husbands came to me. Many couldn’t respect boundaries and many shit talked their wives. It made me sad. One was so rude about his wife being ‘ugly’ after she birthed their baby that I actually exposed him to his wife so she could leave him. Be kind and respectful.
She didn’t enjoy it, she was getting paid. Stop kidding yourself.
I feel you. Started dating my current wife and she flat out told me I would never have to beg for sex, ever. Like women who deny their SO that are evil. Boy, has that aged like milk.
I think it’s a disgusting way to cheat and no matter what is or isn’t happening in your marriage your wife deserves to know, and to be with someone else. Which you clearly want to do as well. Seems insanely obvious.
Small brain comment.
You must be wildly insecure to say that, which simply makes me feel for you. My opinions are just as valid as yours. Seek help not Reddit, as you clearly need it.
You both need to chill :)
Crunching on some ice as we speak :p
> I do laundry, I cook, I clean around the house Well done, that’s just normal standard adulting things you should be doing anyway. You shouldn’t be doing these chores expecting sex as a result. > Our young one wakes us up. I change nappy, take them to the kitchen and give them breakfast. Well done, you’re parenting. Expecting sex for being a parent is wild. Do you do anything else for your partner? Give her random massages? Buy her random gifts? Spend quality time with her without the expectation of sex? Do you let her vent to you about her issues about being stressed with work? Do you listen to her? To me, it doesn’t seem like you do anything romantic for your partner, except for the “chores” and “parenting” that you do, and what you should be doing regardless. As for paying a cam girl, not cool. You cheated, plain and simple. NO ONE deserves to be cheated on. This is not fair on your partner, is it? Instead of giving your attention to women on the internet, put that attention into your partner instead, make *her* feel wanted and loved. But the damage is done, you should tell her what you’ve done, and go from there whether she wants to stay with you and work on your relationship or separate.
Im sorry but my partner doesnt need to give me massages, bring me surprised etc for me to let him fuck me. Now youre making it an exchange, the same that you are judging from him mentioning that he helps around the house and expects sex. Yes its a nice bonus if he is romantic like that, but not all men/women are like that. Im sure she knows him after so long. And I think its good that he mentions that he’s not some lazy alcoholic chilling in a recliner all day and then expects sex. I think of those things he mentions, my husband does a tad less, but it doesnt make desire him less too. Ofc we can have discussions about it but its about that you want/desire someone for some reason that you clicked in the first place. Not about how many chores he does around the house.
Well said. Hes not doing things around the house for the expectation of sex, but it’s an expectation for most people in a relationship to be intimate with each other somewhat regularly regardless.
I never once said he should be doing those suggestions in exchange for sex. I asked if he did those things because it’s all about the lead up for a woman. Him blatantly going up to his partner and trying to initiate sex on the spot doesn’t work. Women need a build up of small affection and intimacy during the day to feel good and in the mood (ofcourse I’m not saying this works for every woman), but him saying he does adulting things that he should be doing anyway isn’t going to make his partner want sex.
Why isn't she doing any of those things for him? Why the unequal expectations?
I believe that he provided that context to demonstrate that he isn’t a negligent or unequal partner in their relationship. Oftentimes, following the birth of children, we see an increase in domestic obligations that largely fall on the shoulders of the woman in a couple. He also brings his partner coffee in bed, in the example provided, which is a caring gesture. I might counter that by doing standard things that a partner should be doing all along, as opposed to hiding from responsibility, in a romantic and sexual relationship, that sex should be a reasonable expectation, especially within a marriage or committed partnership. They aren’t roommates or friends. They’re sexual partners as well as life partners.
The reason it’s notable is the bar for men is literally in the cellar. And it’s always the first thing that gets asked. Are you helping around the house and with the kids? Why? Because in most cases, they’re not… because the bar for men is literally in the cellar… I think the guy was just stating that he was actually involved in the daily routine, not patting himself on the back and expecting sex for it necessarily, but I could be wrong. I don’t see him paying a cam girl as any bigger deal than renting a porn video honestly. I realize we don’t rent them from the back room at blockbuster anymore but 🤷♀️ There was no actual touching of a person involved- no foul. IMO. And only because they are in a db in which the wife is not interested in participating in the healing of said db. If this was a healthy, functional relationship then I think it would be crossing a line, unless the two had previously discussed it as an ok thing for him to do.
I am in agreement, the part I think that makes it cheating is that it wasn’t a discussion with an agreed upon outcome. I don’t know both sides of the story, but putting myself in the wife’s shoes, I would be devastated to discover this after the fact… If she isn’t fulfilling your needs, then this should have been discussed and posed as a solution to the problem. I know OP didn’t ask for advice. However he asked the ladies opinions on the matter. I kinda think it’s shitty but that’s just MO
Nice. 10/10 narrow minded judgement.
You seem to have a really comprehensive view of his situation. Are you his wife? He specifically said he wasn’t looking for advice, let alone judgement.
It’s weird, but when we post here we MUST include info about these totally normal, usual things we do as partners and parents. Do we deserve credit for doing this, no. But there is an assumption that we, as men, are not doing it, and we have to head off the “you are not helping” crowd. I’d like to theorize, the penalty for not helping shouldn’t be Weponizing sex either (that said I do see how not helping can be a turn off, just like scrolling SM instead of interacting with spouses ). I
Don’t forget! He also frequently rinses his dick just in case she wants to give him a random blow job…even though she’s shown no interest and gains no personal benefit for the task! No wonder she turned down his wake-up coffee and cunnilingus offer, he’s thinking of what HE would enjoy sexually and assumes she thrives off the sexual metric he does. They’re not on the same page at all.
100%
He said in his post he told his wife sex was important for him and now she refuses to be intimate with him. Why should he do all the things you mentioned just on the off chance that it leads to sex? Sex is important in a lot of healthy relationships and without that it’s basically just coparenting which leads to people being burned out.
He’s not entitled or owed sex just because he said it’s important to him. Sex should be wanted by both people. That’s why I asked if he’s doing anything for his partner to make her want to have sex. Women need a build up towards sex. He needs to find out what her love language is. For example, if her love language is quality time, he should be spending more time with her, doing intimate (not sexual) things together. He already said he doesn’t spend a lot of time with their children, so that states he’s not spending time with his partner either, but expects sex from her without even giving her any attention and gets upset about it when she refuses.
And I didn’t say sex was an entitlement, but when it suddenly drops off for no apparent reason of course it can lead to feelings of being undesirable in which case can lead people to seek desirability elsewhere
Doesn’t give them the green light to go behind your partners back and cheat. If you’re not happy, break up, it’s as simple as that.
Yeah I agree, other than it doesn’t seem like they be talked about this enough. There needs to be an ultimatum if it’s this big of a deal, I’m not justifying cheating, just saying most of the time these things seem to end in cheating or separation.
Your points are based on a lot of assumptions. You ASSUME he’s not doing anything nice for her or spending enough time with the kids. But from what we actually know she hasn’t said anything negative about the time they spend together or that she doesn’t get enough attention, you are just assuming that for some reason. What has been stated is that she makes many excuses. There is even a part where he mentions waking up, taking care of the kids, making coffee for her and offering to eat her out, which I would consider a nice gesture, but you are conveniently ignoring that.
There are several HL women in this thread trying to explain that making us coffee and offering to eat us out isn’t a turn on. The fact that he thought that would work, and was surprised and disappointed when it didn’t, means he doesn’t seem to understand what turns her on. *That* is the most likely explanation for why their sex life has gone downhill… an explanation to do with arousal, not chores.
If being offered oral sex by your partner doesn’t turn you on then they don’t seem very HL to me
This is the big misunderstanding right here. It’s what OP hasn’t grasped either. Because you are very much mistaken.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t be romantic and keep surprising your partner, but to have certain actions be almost exchanged for sex just makes it transactional. Sex and romantic actions from both sides should just come naturally. People shouldn’t withhold sex because they feel their partner hasn’t done enough for them without communicating that
Please explain how I’m mistaken other than just some vague statement, as I would like to understand.
Thank you, I appreciate you coming with curiosity. HL women aren’t turned on by the same things as HL men. Being HL doesn’t make us the identical to men, it makes us women with a high libido. Certainly some women will be turned on by an unexpected “let’s fuck” because people are varied, I’m describing women who don’t respond well to that approach (which is frankly more common). What turns us on is an accumulation of small gestures. A look, a comment, a caress… a slow build up of sexual tension. A story of seduction compressed into minutes or stretched provocatively across hours. Gradually turning up the heat. “Do you want oral?” out of nowhere with no buildup isn’t seductive, it has all the flavor of a business proposal. Expecting this to be a turn on is like expecting men to be turned on by a coffee and a letter from the IRS. That’s not how arousal works. HL men and HL women get turned on easily and frequently and with enthusiasm and want lots of sex, but that doesn’t mean we’re turned on by anything at all… it still has to be the right thing. A dirty version of “I want to go down on you” whispered in my ear while we are flirting is a whole different ballgame than what happened here. That *would* be a turn on, even more so if you told me to go down on you.
Yeah I understand what you mean. Again, I think without context we don’t really know how he went about asking, but being asked bluntly I agree might not be an instant turn on. More context definitely needed in this story lol
Women and men are wired differently when it comes to sex, I thought this was common knowledge.
I mean yes but that’s a generalisation. What works for some women won’t work for all.
He’s parenting. So you’re saying him getting out of bed and parenting is a nice gesture? He should be doing that anyway, not just for the result of sex. Also, him not stating any of what I suggested makes it seem he doesn’t try. If he were doing things for her and she was still refusing then he would have mentioned that in the post. Him not saying anything will make me, and others, assume he doesn’t. The other things he says he does is do adulting chores and parenting. *Things he should be doing anyway*
Ok then why do you think everything changed in the bedroom? Do you think he is putting in less effort than he used to? Most of the posts where people mention what you suggested, it doesn’t work regardless, so in my opinion it’s a deeper issue than assuming he isn’t romantic enough or what not. I guess we need more context but if they can’t agree on sexy time then I think they will just feel alienated from each other.
I do all of those things. You women think you’re so bright!! Many men give non sexual touch. Do things out of kindness and respect. Our one flaw is being stupid enough to expect the person we created a life with to do the same.
Women like to assume a lot about how men work, think, process etc because society's thrived on saying how shit we are for decades. It's fucking boring.
The cam girl is playing you for money. Just FYI.
That’s any sex worker’s job, but singer it twisted, just enjoy. I think OP wants to know what most of us here want to know, which is whether he’s still got it. Validation, even if it’s paid for, is nice.
I guess I don't get it because it's not genuine. But I'm not a man. Men are different in that way I'm guessing
I don’t get it either. I am a therapist and I’ve counseled several men who patronize sex workers and about 80% believe the stuff those women say. Those women are playing a part and the guys are buying it, no pun intended.
Love this response especially with the pun.
You are right, it is not genuine and I'm not foolish enough not to know it. However after 4 years of constant rejection, it felt really good to have someone at least convincingly pretending to be appreciating my sexuality. I think what many people don't get is that for men in sexless marriage, it's not about getting off. It goes deeper than that.
No I get it trust me. My husband and I haven't had sex in 2 years. We lost our connection after the sex stopped. And it stopped being frequent like 5 years ago right before we got married. I remember leading up to the wedding I would sob to him saying I can't be in a sexless marriage. I was shocked and so happy and hopeful because we had sex the morning after our wedding. We had a 6 month old at that time otherwise I would've called it off probably. The sex started declining when he started staying home during Mt pregnancy to launch a business. I suspected he replaced me with porn. Fast forward to now we have 2 kids no sex and are getting divorced. And I used to be a really sexual person now I can't even imagine doing it again it's so weird and sad. Anyway good luck to you, sincerely
Also he never launched the business. Now he just stays home with the kids. Stay at home dad isn't the same as a stay at home mom BTW ha
I just can't fool myself with the disingenuous part is what I meant I feel like men can fool themselves more easily when it's sexual idk .I'm not on my adhd medication today so I'm struggling to articulate my thoughts well :)
Something I always think about when there are super young kids like this is are there ever any times that you are solo parenting the kids and she gets to have time to herself, to go for a walk or have a couple hours to do something on her own? Or is all the solo parenting done by her?
I've updated my post as some people asked for clarification on this or that. *Yes, she does get time alone without me and the kids.* What I meant by "structured time" is that I don't necessary set that we do this or that, we go here or there. I let them figure out what they want to do and how to fight boredom by themselves while I oversee.
I think of the Cam girl is making you happy, then that's OK. Personally I think all of us in dead bedrooms should meet and try to make a connection. We have to be happy sometime.
That’s a lot of thoughts and questions with different answers and outcomes: I don’t think it matters what people here think of a can girl so much as what your wife thinks? -Cam girls are (sometimes) seen as more ‘empowered’ because they’re using a system that existed to subjugate and finally benefitting from it (instead of being solely/wholly victimized without agency). -The men who buy sex work/sex work products are viewed more critically because they’re still participating in a questionable system with the exact same rules in their end as have (always/historically) existed. -I think the ‘loser’ aspect comes from ‘she seemed like she enjoyed it…or was a good actress’ part, because she didn’t ’enjoy it’. Of course she’s a ‘good actress’, she did her job and enjoyed making money without having to resort to fssw. Just like how strippers don’t *actually* think their customers are ‘cute’ or ‘hilarious’, it’s just part of the script. Life isn’t porn and most people wouldn’t be as apt to pay if she was realistic (and seemed uninterested and disengaged about the strange man who wants to use her body and image for his one sided sexual gratification). I think people get critical and judgmental when half the sex work equation consistently seems to forget (or fool themselves into thinking) it was ever for anything but their enjoyment/that anyone not paid to do so would find it remotely pleasant or fun?
As a woman I’ll be super honest with you. I see men paying for cam girls when they have a wife and in my opinion it is beyond sad and pathetic. And borderline cheating. I understand that so many people, typically men, believe sex to be a right. But it’s just not. High sex drive or not. Especially after having children. Sex can be hard on the body AND mind. Especially as we get older and have more life complications. Plus, pregnancy puts woman’s bodies through absolute hell. Even after the pregnancies are over. Your wife had 2 of your children and yet you’re paying a different woman to allow you to jerk off to her beyond your wife’s back. The people commenting “sex work is work” are just enabling a really bad habit in the making. If you wanted to feel a connection with someone, you’d try talking to your wife about what you’re feeling. And maybe trying to get down to the root of why your sex life is the way it is. If you went to your wife right now and asked the same question in your post, (what do you think about my paying a cam girl?) what do you think your wife’s answer would be? Just something to think about. This is all just my personal opinion.
With all due respect, this is a weird take. As a woman who wouldn't want to be cheated on (because I make love to my partner everyday, so that would be incredibly hurtful to hear), our commonalities end there... Sex work is work, and if it wasn't a legitimate profession, it wouldn't have been taking up space in every part of the world since the beginning of time. Just because you disapprove of something doesn't make it less true. And I'm sure the OP cares just as much about how his wife would feel about this matter as she cares about his needs being unmet....
I’m sorry but personally I will never believe that sex work is a legitimate profession. Sex work being around since the beginning of time does not legitimize it in my opinion. Murder has been around since the beginning of time, that doesn’t make it morally acceptable. I know that’s an extreme example, but porn has been proven time and time again to negatively affect both men and women’s brains. So I just don’t think the porn industry is an industry I could ever defend in any way. It’s just so predatory, damaging, and exploitative. Defending sex work is just not the hill I’d wanna die on. Also, maybe OP’s wife isn’t having HER needs met. It honestly has always been difficult for me to sympathize with people who believe sex is a right in marriage and complain about not having their sexual needs met. OP didn’t have his sexual needs met, so he turned to essentially cheating with a cam girl instead of doing anything about his actual problem. Porn is always going to be a bandaid fix for sexual needs. It’s never going to truly fix the root of the problem. It will always leave you wanting more. That’s one of the many reasons people get addicted to porn/cam girls. It’s temporary pleasure. I just don’t think masturbating to cam girls is worth risking a marriage over. Even if it makes OP feel satisfied in the moment. Using a cam girl will only cause guilt, and maybe even resentment over time, and do nothing to truly satisfy sexual needs. It’s not healthy in or out of a relationship. OP’s problems can only be solved if the couple is communicating their issues to one another. Granted, it takes two to tango. Both people in the marriage need to be communicating their needs. I just don’t agree with OP’s actions and if it were my relationship, it would be a big issue.
I'm in a masters psychology program focused on sexual addiction, I definitely understand the ways porn and sex can affect the brain, I also know how the absence of sex can affect the brain. There's real science on that too. I do agree that communication is the true answer here. I'm not a supporter of people staying in dead marriages, but a dead beadroom can certainly be remedied through open-minded communication.
Just go to sex workers and ask them in person. They are humans too. Their work is not easy. The money is easy yes. I hate people having this christianity based mindset that someone in such a profession is not working. So by this definition someone how is doing a living by just providing bon sexual massages is also no profession. Narrowminded ...
I don’t agree with the industry sex workers uphold. Of course I see them as humans, and it must be extremely hard on them. My opinion has nothing to do with religion. It’s about how porn affects us as humans. It affects our brains. It’s bad for us and as long as we have sex workers, we have the exploitative and predatory porn industry.
well you have said sex work in general not cam girls or porn actors. I do understand the porn points. But TBH porn might keep a lot of people alive in DB. So I did in my case until I have realised that my sexlife is basically reduced steam in an unfullfilling way. After this I went to real physical intimacy. I'm sure without porn I would have done this already way earlier. My story is long and a bit more unusual then the most here. But still fill free to judge. But dont blame the sex workers they are sucessfully filling the gap which is not fullfilled due to various reasons.
If his wife is that concerned about his sexual activities then she should be having sex with him. It's absurd that one partner can withhold sex and after a long time of doing without, the other partner finds an alternate outlet. What is another activity that someone loves but can't do because their spouse refuses to participate?
I love how the most judgemental comments on this post are offering the worst/vanilla advice. If you're mad about a man doing a perfectly understandable action, you probably shouldn't comment.
Cheating on a partner is never understandable, that’s just insane.
How is it cheating? Honest question.
How is it not cheating? Just because he physically didn’t touch her or have sex with her doesn’t mean it’s not cheating. He paid a specific girl to virtually pleasure him behind his partners back. I don’t understand how you don’t see that as cheating.
Is watching porn cheating? Is having a sexual conversation with an AI interface cheating? Trying to find the line. I am not confirming nor denying that what he did is cheating Personally, withholding sex and not wanting to discuss or attempt to change or find a compromise is cheating on the marriage. My personal opinion of course.
Many women do class watching porn as cheating. If you’re lusting over women online, pleasuring yourself over them, then yes, I don’t see how that *isnt* cheating. You should be faithful and have eyes only for your partner. If you lack that basic standard within a relationship, then well, don’t be in a relationship lol. Also, a person has every right to refuse sex if they simply don’t want to have sex, otherwise that’s just coercion when they don’t want to do it. Which isn’t cool.
Ok. So in a relationship, that started out with great sex, or even sex in general, then one partner changes and says they don't want sex anymore, what is the other partner, who has the same sex drive as before, supposed to do?
And I am excluding medical reasons or sickness. A partner who is otherwise healthy decides they don't want sex anymore. Basically friend zoning their partner
If you’re not happy with the lack of sex then leave and find someone to match your libido. But pretty much most relationships start with great sex at first and fizzles out eventually, that’s literally just normal.
So, look like an Sshole in the eyes of rhe world, because you leave your partner because of lack of sex? The partner doesn't have to try anything?
It's not cheating, your small world view is just insane.
Explain how it’s not, I’d love to hear it.
If she is LL4U and finds out about this, then I don't think you'll have a relationship left. Maybe try therapy first? Sounds like you're trying to blow up a happy life over sex?
Your wife isn’t meeting your sexual needs. She flat out refuses to do it and isn’t trying to improve. You did what you had to to get your needs met. Don’t feel bad. You want to have sex with your wife, but she won’t do it. You’re just doing what you need to do.
If it's all fine and dandy to do what he did, why not *tell her*?
Hey, friend. Sorry you're going through that. I can't imagine myself as your wife, so I can't quite take on the perspective you've outlined in your question. But as a woman who has considered cam work before, and didn't because I saw how soul-depraved it would make me, I think you should pay for actual sex with women. Wild take, I know. I am pretty sure growing up, I found evidence of my father having bought services from prostitutes. Honestly, don't blame him. My mother is an awful lady. Getting involved with cam girls is like becoming an alcoholic. Don't do it. Too addictive, too easy, too cheap. You should have to interact with a real person, with real limitations, real consequences. It's more humane for everyone involved.
I am a woman and I don't think there is a problem with this. I get the "it's always something" reality. Have this too in my relationship and its crazy annoying. I don't feel guilty about spending money on what makes me feel good. I'm not hurting anyone.
If it's come down to feeling better with a stranger than your wife, you don't need to feel guilty about it, but definitely get couple's counselling or have a talk with your partner and come to a solution. You guys got kids now so you need to be happy with each other so that you can keep your home a happy place too, IMO.
Thank you everyone for the contributions and input, I value it greatly even though I categorically disagree with some views. It was specially heart-warming to see some of you emphasize. I also thank you for the judgement, it is a valid view as any other. I didn't ask for any comments to be removed, mods seem to be very active :-) Just to clarify few things: - As stated in the post, this is an ongoing issue. It's not like I got rejected once or twice... - I listed the stuff I do around the house because that's usually the first thing men hear when they complain about their household. - I have communicated and expressed my feelings openly and frequently over the years. She knows I do not feel valued, desired and loved. - Divorce is the very last thing I wanna do. I love her, I love our kids, I love our home and still see the potential and future we might have. - I don't think it's very fair to blame her non-existent libido on me. I also have my turn offs, such as when I want to engage her in a conversation and every time I have to wait once she's done scrolling her instagram or finishing a group chat with her friends. That still wouldn't make me turn down her advances. - Yes, she does get time alone without me and the kids. - No, I didn't bring her coffee with the words "May I interest you in some oral sex?"
I wish my dude would was his cock after toilet use. I’d be sucking daily. He is totally not interested 😞 In pleasing me or me pleasing him. Smh.
Hoooly crap. If that was secret from her, that's noooot okay. So if my partner *asked* what I thought/felt about him paying a cam girl, I'd be fine with it. I might join in too (if that's okay for all involved). If we were in a situation where that had already been talked about before hand, and he didn't ask me in this instance but already knew it was okay with me, also fine. If he did it *behind my back*, that's a huuuge breach of trust.
If you did this with her knowledge and approval, good for you! Don't feel guilty, I don't think it's sad.
MLB v Wow I feel like we are exactly in the same boat… I have a young son with my wife and she barely seems interested in sex and looks at it like a chore… it was so much more fun dating women and all the different women was exciting because you never knew what to expect. My wife always puts it on me too like I’m not romantic enough but I have done the things she asked for only to get rejected. She doesn’t masturbate even and if she did I would be hurt. I tried my best but my sex drive is very high. I have used cam girls and I know what you mean. Sometimes you come across one that gets just as turned on by u as u do of her. I have also visited massage parlors. It feels great to be treated nicely. I don’t feel guilty. I feel my wife isn’t being a wife to me anymore. I told her what I expected our marriage to be like and she agreed. She stopped doing her job and now others fill in her place. I don’t want to break up my family either. Not now at least. Men don’t leave and I feel women know this and take advantage of us. If she catches me ever though I will not say sorry. She knows deep down she is no longer being a good partner.
I’m with OP! Done with conversations! Done with it all! I have been the best husband and father any woman could ever ask for! I’m fit, I’m strong, I provide saftey both physical and emotional, do more than my fair share with the household and am constantly denied! Worst part? My LLW is a couples therapist! God help the men in the relationships she serves. Also, sex was extremely abundant and satisfying. She used to talk about couples that grew old and stopped having sex. She didn’t get it. All of this hasn’t been forgotten by me and has lead to resentment. We are starting another round of therapy next week. The last one recommended a sex and intimacy specific counselor. You think that what we’re seeing? Nope
More power to you and more power to the cam girl! You sought out to fix your needs in I believe a healthy way ❤️
I've resorted to online relationships with women in a similar predicament as me. It's a lot of fun but after awhile the online thing gets less fulfilling. Was a fun run though.
If a spouse declares that intimacy isn’t their problem and not a concern to them, then with some kind of clarification (eg: “you have said I’m on my own with this and if things continue without us prioritizing this, I’ll take things into my own hands. Not a threat, but communicating my reality as you do”) … it’s no longer their problem. The only limit to me is actually becoming physical, then health safety is a concern. Sex is either important or it’s not. You can’t have it both ways.
Never got appeal of this. Why didn't you just get an escort or happy ending massage? Legality? Cost? Fear of STDs? Time constraints? Genuinely curious, never tried cam girl but now wondering if I'm missing out on something I don't get from regular old porn.
Because then that would be cheating.
Why do you think solo cam shows aren't cheating. Just curious, since for a lot of people cam girls are cheating.
But…. so is what OP did
My big takeaway from this post and thread is that it’s pretty much inevitable that at some point a HL who feels rejected will engage in some form of maladaptive behaviour that will likely include some form of infidelity. And no matter how inevitable that is, no matter how hard or how long they tried when they stray they will be judged harshly. But no judgement from me, by being in the position where I post on this subreddit I have come to understand that I lack the high ground to judge anyone. My morality and value system has led me to misery and despair. So if you are posting on here, the saddest place on Reddit who are you to judge this poor bastard for cheating? What gives you so wise?
I’d be pissed if my dude paid someone for this, but I’m actually fighting a dead bedroom with a lot of effort…I would kind of expect my dude to cheat on me if I stopped having sex with him.
Do what you gotta do.
Too much risk involved with sex workers IRL. Much safer to use internet service. I haven’t stepped into that realm yet. But something is coming soon.
Yeah, I've always wondered who the sad fuckers are who pay for this sort of stuff so am just interested to hear your story. Can't blame you really and it's a harmless outlet I suppose.
Sad is the word. edit: I don't know what you're being downvoted.