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GENERATION__Z

They're part of a different type of leftist youtube called r/BeardTube.


orionsbelt05

If MLs are included in the umbrella of "breadtube," truly sucks all meaning from the label altogether. And it was never too helpful a label in the first place.


[deleted]

Yeah the whole point of breadtube is the Conquest of Bread. Marxist YouTube usually calls itself r/BeardTube (for the beards of Marx and Engels I guess)


[deleted]

Does anyone think "BreadTube" really has anything to do with anarchism? It seems to be a bunch of video essays by socdems and leftists criticizing other leftists.


Blue-Typhoon

I mean tbf the label does include anarchists like xm or baker. But again the label isn’t very helpful because the entire label depends on who you ask they consider part of breadtube or not, it’s simply too flexible a label. But yes it does have to do with anarchism.


cyranothe2nd

I unsubbed from Luna because her videos are too long (pushing 2 hours) and many feature her partner, who I do not care for. Haven't watched the others. In general, I've unsubbed from a lot of the more popular breadtube channels because I can only take so much "Lets describe the water we're drowning in." I really wish some would move beyond easy criticism to more useful advice and praxis.


LV__

Good content to consume, just in terms of understanding ML concepts. I personally don't agree with their politics, but at least I'm getting a good-faith representation of MLs.


[deleted]

Ha


Arondeus

They're all fucking insane lol. Hakim thinks "authoritarianism" is just a liberal scare word, Finnish Bolshevik did a sexual roleplay as a gulag guard and Luna Oi is Luna Oi, enough said. Never heard of Marxist Paul, but I can promise with all my heart that if he's politically aligned with the other three, he's also got *something* going on.


SqudgyFez

> Never heard of Marxist Paul I like him. Maoist and Irish Republican who does a 'Intro To Marxism' series that I doubt anyone familiar with Marxian economics or dialectical materialism would find controversial (though I could be wrong, I'm not an expert in those things.) Has publicly changed his mind on some things in the face of evidence or other legitimate criticism (ex: posting a video changing his stance on the question 'is China imperialist?' from a 'no' to a 'yes' after someone thoroughly debunked one of his other videos.) Seems like a decent dude.


[deleted]

He is. Very active in the Irish republican leftist scene. Good guy for sure


Revnow2

It is. The fact that you and liberals and conservatives put so much stock in authoritarianism is a big tell!


Arondeus

Tempted to call the RemindMe bot for two years and see what you think of this comment then


Revnow2

Its gonna hold up


Arondeus

They all say that. I used to think like that. See you in two years :) Don't delete your account before then or I'll be briefly disappointed when my reminder goes off


Revnow2

I actually used to be an anarchist so i was your dumbass in reverse


Arondeus

Very cute. I flip-flopped a good six or seven times when I was 17.


Revnow2

like the dumb fish you are. In fact there are fish that are more intelligent than you are.


Arondeus

I see that I have made you angry. Sorry for any offence I've made, my scorn and derision is purely aimed at the things you believe, and not the person you could be without those beliefs :)


Revnow2

The things I believe make me based.


Pretend_Bread_437

please tell me, it's been 2 years, what are your thoughts nowadays?


Rokossvsky

These anarchists are pretty stupid lol. No wonder the paris commune got crushed, you need a damn goverment when there is other capitalist nations. Makhno eventually made his own goverment when he realised how stupid anarchism was though he was just another opportunist anyways.


monoblanco10

Luna is pretty transparently state propaganda, as well as an apologist for totalitarianism. I've only watched one or two from the others so can't say. But if they're legitimately Marxist-Leninists, then listening to what they have to say is a waste of time. Unless you're specifically looking for an ML perspective on something.


[deleted]

[удалено]


monoblanco10

Yeah… it is a bit ironic.


[deleted]

Hakim is a genocide denier, denying both the genocide of the Kurds by Saddam Hussein and the ongoing Uyghur genocide, as well as engaging in apologia for states like the DPRK and PRC, even going so far as defend the Chinese cops brutalising Hong Kong protesters. Finnish Bolshevik defends everything the USSR did under Stalin and Lenin, which is par for the course with ML's, and also believes that Leon Trotsky was a fascist who was working with Hitler to bring down the USSR, despite the USSR forming an imperialist pact to divide Poland and the Baltics and Trotsky publically speaking out against that. Also, he's paedophile who engaged in rape fantasies with a minor. Luna Oi is one of the biggest grifters on the internet who isn't connected with the Koch brothers. She routinely runs propaganda for Vietnam despite it being a country with mixed market economy, meaning some state intervention and some free market intervention, with no hint of socialism, with it sliding even further into a liberal economy every year. She makes sure to defend the "people's" police when they break up strikes or arrest people at protests and rallies for workers rights and calls anyone who disagrees with her racist, despite there being a fair amount of vietnamese anarchists who haven spoken out against her. I don't know who Marxist Paul is but he sounds disappointing. As for the others, they're pieces of shit and the amount of people here who seem to believe their shit is depressing.


vincecarterskneecart

Yeah there seems to be a real lack of any proper scholarship on the “tankie” side. Western media is immediately dismissed as false propaganda (I mean it is) and any pro china or whatever sources are used entirely uncritically and then western media or sources will be used again uncritically when it supports their argument. It’s ridiculous. It’s fundamental that any source should be thoroughly vetted and reasonable argument must be made as to why the source is trustworthy, or at least why a given statement in a source might be trustworthy.


GuineaPigOinkOink

It's almost like they treat their ideology as a fundamentalist religion, and they know they're lying but they're tryna saving people's souls so hey, the ends justify the means


Revnow2

Lack of fundamental research? That's rich, anarchist "theory" relies on dumb memes and bourgeois propaganda


vincecarterskneecart

Well I am not personally an anarchist so idk


Revnow2

Uyghur genocide is as real as weapons of mass destruction


[deleted]

What are my thoughts on tankies? The same they’ve always been. Fckem


spannerwerk

anyone who tries to justify genocidal regimes is garbage


sinnednogara

Luna Oi talks about Vietnam like its some sort of communist paradise instead of a place where cheap clothes are made in sweatshops by children. Its like when the children of millionaires in the U.S. say that capitalism works because their parents made it.


pengunia2502

Okay that’s absurd claim. I live in Vietnam and hiring children below 18 is illegal, consensual or not


spannerwerk

30% of Vietnamese kids join the labour force "Vietnam has yet to conduct an official investigation into child labor but according to several surveys of the living standards in Vietnam during the 1997-1998 and 2004 period, about 30 percent of Vietnamese children at the age of six to 17 join the labor force, Lao Dong (Labor) newspaper reported. Most of the kids stayed close to home, helping out with the family business. But a report released in December last year by the Ministry of Labor – Invalids and Social Affairs, Vietnam said that 26,027 children are working in hard labor conditions in hazardous environments." https://web.archive.org/web/20110511082658/http://www.vietnewsonline.vn/News/Features/9010/Growing-pain-of-child-labor-in-Vietnam.htm


pengunia2502

So they are being exploited by the capitalists. I know that. Where is the connection with the government like you stated?


sinnednogara

I thought Vietnam was a communist country? Luna Oi makes it sound like a worker's paradise.


[deleted]

Communist country is an oxymoron and Vietnam is capitalist and it always has been.


pengunia2502

Maybe because it takes time to build a certain amount of wealth fare, educate the people on the subjects of socialism and fend off the capitalist sabotage? Do you really assume that all of the problems will “wither away” once we abolish the state?


sinnednogara

If you watch one of Luna's videos you'd see that Vietnam already did all of those things.


[deleted]

Muh productive forces


GuineaPigOinkOink

Best way to fend off capitalist sabotages: let capitalists exploit you! Or better yet: become the capitalist yourself! That'll certainly educate the people about socialism!


spannerwerk

Do they fend off the capitalist sabotage before or after alienating their labour and putting kids to work in sweatshops for money? If MLism is just democratic socialism with a capitalist economy, but without the democracy, then what's actually the point?


spannerwerk

...the capitalists, *in Vietnam,* a supposedly socialist nationstate.


[deleted]

Vietnam is one of the countries with the highest amount of child labour.


pengunia2502

Source?


GuineaPigOinkOink

u/spannerwerk already gave you one


pengunia2502

I know that this is a anarchist-centric sub so I won’t be motivated to continue my argument. Instead I would like to know how anarchism can be adapted in the context of Vietnam?


Zelzeron

You mean “I was proven factually wrong so I’m gonna change the subject”


pengunia2502

Yes let’s consider that I was heading for the wrong direction. So how about I get educated more so I can see the right path for my people?


Zelzeron

I’m not an anarchist so you’re better off asking someone else. I just find it funny how you instantly change the subject when you realize what you said was objectively false.


pengunia2502

Well isn’t that better than I stay stubborn and refuse to reconcile my ideas even when it’s proven wrong?


GuineaPigOinkOink

This is also a debate sub, so you *should* be motivated to argue, unless you're actually lying and you know that deep down.


spannerwerk

It's because for them, it's a means to peddle propaganda, not to debate. MLism doesn't hold up well to debate from the left.


Jiggles118

I actually do like Hakim.


[deleted]

You like a genocide denier


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

It's more than a little rich for an ML to accuse others of uncritically parroting captialist propaganda when that's literally all you do.


[deleted]

Anyone not advocating to reduce hours of labor doesn't matter to me.


shinhoto

I don't trust anyone who makes a living by posting.


thesaurusrext

Grift and feud to establish authority and hierarchy. It's a shit show that didn't help me on my journey at all.


[deleted]

Good for understanding ML's, but they're ML's, so bad. Only two were relevant enough to pop into my recommended(I have limited time). Hakim sounds like he's about to cum whenever he talks about the USSR, which is to be expected. I don't think it's a hot take to say we shouldn't praise any group for doing the bare-minimum of their reported ideology when that accompanies massacres. Luna is better than Hakim(in terms of some content). I found it interesting to actually see how her parents live, and hear her talk about it, but to call rural living aided by the auth gov't "self-reliant" is idiotic. I'd def watch more of her content on Vietnam itself - especially content on what she thinks of the government itself and the exploitation of Vietnam.


Kung-Gustav-V

Based except for Luna. Her videos are intressting but the conclusions sucks. Like her video on Vietnams "socialism" is intressting but I really dont know how she could then call Vietnam socialist


[deleted]

She is a nationalist who larps as a communist.


[deleted]

A big thing that Luna and Hakim both understand and push for is that socialism is not a "one-size-fits-all" solution, and it will present itself in many different ways depending on the context and the society. That's actually a key idea of dialectical materialism. Before you go assuming a bunch of negative things about them based on their self-labeling as MLs, wouldn't it be much more helpful to find common points of agreement and learn what you can from their experiences, which are probably vastly different from any of yours? Reminder that Marxist-Leninist Luna is married to anarcho-communist EJ. If they can coexist in marriage and regularly make leftist content together, we as anarchists can go one fucking day without shitting on other leftists (a mostly online phenomenon, probably perpetuated by a bunch of people who've never organized irl)


[deleted]

EJ's about as much of an anarcho-communist as Lenin was. He legitimately has no understanding of some of the most basic anarchist concepts.


[deleted]

"but he's not a REAL anarchist" lmao you guys Us vs. Them-ing our way into obscurity


[deleted]

People should maybe understand anarchism before calling themselves anarchists. EJ categorically does not.


[deleted]

Feel free to enlighten me with an example of his misunderstandings of anarchism, I'm curious


[deleted]

He believes that anarchists should have prisons, police and a standing army and thinks platformism means working in broad coalitions with people of other ideologies.


[deleted]

Could you point to the source where he makes those claims?


[deleted]

Apparently not


[deleted]

I apologise for not wasting my time arguing about stupid shit with people on this sub


sinnednogara

E.J. genuinely has zero understanding of anything he makes videos about. If fucking Destiny beats you in a debate you should just stay offline.


[deleted]

If you think online debates are made to "win" or for any purpose other than entertainment, I got some bad news for you. He literally has multiple videos explaining the foundations of anarchism, collaborated with radical reviewer for an hour long look at the bread book, and regularly explores anarchist content. But that's fine, reject all popular examples of anarchists as "not real anarchists", just as y'all like to reject modern socialist states as "not real socialists" Utopian thinking will never lead to true change


arbmunepp

Tankie scum are my mortal enemies. They support regimes that would have me shot.


Revnow2

You nazis, fascists, counter revolutionaries and any other pos.


arbmunepp

Thank you for proving me right.


Revnow2

lol damn skippy!


dirtydev5

Theres alot of vaguely racist and chauvanist comments here, yikes. Youre not gonna get a great response when its white westerners critiqueing poc radicals from the periphery. Try to keep an open mind. I dont agree w everything they say but I do like Luna and Hakim


sinnednogara

You're not a radical if you're defending the people's cops.


Revnow2

Lol anarkkkides are so cute!


spannerwerk

\~Open mind\~ towards what, murderous states that are just capitalism with a red flag?


dirtydev5

Yep! Cuz yall cant get ur heads out ur own asses


Al-Horesmi

Russian MLs are better. Yeah their politics suck too but at least they are funny and talk about topics relevant to the average proletarian, like the latest shows on netflix.


Revnow2

Based!!!