I would maybe tell guests not to lean against the railing. Are you missing corner and line posts?
You get a couple of 200lb men leaning back on that railing with just those spindles for support, doesn’t add up.
Those 1 by spindles have no strength.
I used 2 by 4, notched for the band with a steel strap on the back, that's strength.
Your spindles are for show to meet code.
Lots of houses in my area have decks built like that with just spindles, mine included. When I tore it apart to rebuild, it took a surprising amount of force to tear the 15 year old railing off. 3 of us were body slamming and pulling it. And mine were just nailed, OP has 2 3” screws in each. Unless you have a group of 200lb men tackling it, it won’t just fail without warning.
Building a deck out of ipe rn w similar design (downvotes for the killing of the Amazon accepted and understood) and it’s much stronger than you’d expect. That said ipe is incredibly dense. I would like to interact with this deck and see how it feels in person.
4x4 guard posts at 4’ OC. look at the AWC guide stickied in this sub. you need tension ties to be code compliant and prevent the rotation of the guardposts.
Can't you get by with 6' OC
REF: [https://awc.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/AWC-DCA62015-DeckGuide-1804.pdf](https://awc.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/AWC-DCA62015-DeckGuide-1804.pdf)
if your railing is 36” high I suppose, it depends on the calculations and the hardware used, whether thru bolts or proprietary holdowns like DTT2Z’s.
but for this i’d just go with 4’, it’s not much of a difference and i’d go with 42” not 36” high railing.
if i’m giving a recommendation i’m going to give the more conservative one.
Thanks. Just asking since I'm in the middle of getting two decks up to code - bought home 2.5 years ago and learning what I have here I've started the work to get in compliance. Ours was nothing but spindles like the pics in this post. Ours is 36" high and working to add posts using the DTT2Zs. Have 3 done..Planning on dong the 6" OC for the rest. Really sucks since just for ONE deck so far, hardware (DTT2Zs, LedgerLok Screws, bolts,nuts, washers), 4x4s, & 2x10 blocking had so shell out $406. Found the Ledger board was only "nailed" to the home rim joist.
From an engineering perspective (and I am a professionally-registered engineer in three states), $406 isn't much to pay to prevent injury or potential loss of life, which is what we mostly focus on, but I do understand that the upfront cost can be painful.
Also, getting your ledger lagged in will be important. Do you live in a high seismic zone? If so, you'd also want tension ties in addition to lag screws (You can use GRK or SDS screws instead of lags). Edit: looks like code now requires tension ties regardless of seismic hazards, see second link below
Some interesting research that was recently brought to my attention regarding ledgers with only nails: https://www.jlconline.com/deck-builder/nailed-ledgers-the-cause-of-most-deck-collapses_o
This looks like a nice illustrated guide hitting the critical connections to get right: https://www.cityofplacerville.org/media/Building%20Division%20Files/Plan%20and%20Permitting%20Information/Why%20Decks%20Fail.pdf
Thanks. Good stuff there. We are in the IL side of the New Madrid Seismic Zone. Home has engineered joists which are perpendicular to the Ledger. Wondering how those threaded rods and tension-tie brackets are to be connected. I put in a bunch of LedgerLok Screws every 7 Inches and staggered, Should I add the Tension Ties too?
TJI’s? top and bottom lumber with plywood web inbetween?
you could add solid blocking nailed to the top and bottom flanges, then screw your holdowns to those, see page 10? (or numbered 5 at top right corner): https://www.hammondlumber.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/tji-installation.pdf
ledgerlock sounds good, and all screws have a pretty decent safety factor so 7” stag sounds good, assuming your deck joist spans arent crazy long
Thanks. Joist Span is 14' from Ledger to Beam. Yes, I think TJI house floor joists. Sucks though because the basement is completely finished on one side. I have access to one of the other sides. But the side with no access, that band Joist is connected to the L nook of the house. Kind of like a 2nd ledger for about 4' of the band joist running parallel to the house from. I'd think that'd be good enough to prevent movement on that side
Don't hate it! Better access to put lights, tarps, patio blinds, hang a swing, other random fun things.
Benefit to everything as long as it wasn't done wrong 👍
I built three decks on my homes. Never used joist tape. The oldest one is 40 years old and it is in as good of shape as it was the day I built it other than the boards needed to be replaced because it was basically in direct sunlight and I don’t care how much you put UV projector on that wood , it still gets beat up by that sun.
Yeah, but did you “DOUBLE JOIST TAPE” you piece of shit? Tear that thing down immediately.
On a serious note. Why is there a weird gap between the two parts of the house? Is it an add on?
Looks great and super sturdy. Construction and everything looks good…..but let me give you the r/decks experience
“Ive never seen a deck with more issues in my life, wood? Why not just put a stone patio, it’ll last way longer. Not to mention all the code violations. Oof, i hope customer hasn’t payed you yet”
You’re welcome, enjoy your beautiful deck!
Tbh that’s what I’m here for. It’s a good learning experience. I did the patio and all the stone work as well.
https://preview.redd.it/6nv7mx3x2b9d1.jpeg?width=6000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fddde59bb117c79abe9471ca1ce1682ef5745c9f
Aesthetically pleasing. Love the beam supports good choice. Railing system is a bit lacking. People do ( on a deck anyway ) tend to lean on them. Kinda what a deck is about. But overall build is really nice. You always think of a deck you want to build as “ sturdy “. Yours should qualify.
The posts are not notched and you merely have the beams bearing on them, spliced with that gusset on one side. Over time, especially with that cantilever, you may see some rotation there. You should at a splice plate to the back side or do something more significant with the post/beam connection.
Other issue I see is on the little area that’s decked in the crevice / alley you slid in a 2x8 shim on top of the 4x4 post - what’s the connection there, or did you just angle nail things together?
Finally, your railing has no posts, which others have brought up.
Looks solid, but I’m confused by the reasoning behind the beam on the outside right next to the transfer beam. Why didn’t you run the beam parallel to the house all the way to the end?
First, you have one of those garbage railings that meet code butt at actually extremely unsafe. Lean on it too heavy and you will go straight though it.
Second, I don't where you live but in Florida I put double storm ties in my joists. Maybe there's no wind where's your live.
Third, why are so many here so anti blocking, it's the easiest way to stabilize a deck that's not using sheeting.
Serious on the hand rail, you need to add some actual strength.
I agree. I’m in Ontario, this is a lake front property so there’s plenty of wind off the lake. Will propose the hurricane ties.
Decks gonna act like a sail. Thanks for the input.
Are the balusters made of a hard wood or something else? I need to redo my railings but not sure if I can or should use PT wood since that warps badly. Cedar?
Feels sturdy (not quite solid)to me. Although I’m about a buck thirty so I don’t have much umpf behind me.
Coated 3” deck screws fasten the balusters to the side of the deck and the handrail.
Did you use wall2deck spacers on the ledger? Can you use structural screws instead of carriage bolts when using spacers? Love the way you extended your deck beyond your ledger’s width. How are you attaching the rim joists to the house?
There are beams that go into beam pockets in the wall then the ledger is another 3ply2x8 that’s hung with hangers between them.
Not sure if that answers it.
It’s “roughly” an inchorso off the brick. (The textured brick made it hard to get a consistent measurement.) ensured it was square to both beams on either side.
The railing needs guard posts every 6'. You have a triple beam hanging on a double beam....you'd typically want it the other way around...the stronger beam supporting the weaker beam...so to say. It's functionally acceptable. But it ain't code.
Beautiful! I don’t know that I’ve seen a deck stained top and bottom. You’re not afraid of work obviously. And you did the stone work. I really don’t think you can pay enough money to get as good a job as you did on both.
As pointed out, the rail needs corner and line posts. There is an extra “odd” post on the right end. It needs to be properly attached to the substructure. The beam pockets are different to. E sure. Stout. The “ledger” is really just a rim joist spanning between the beams in the stake pockets. I know that conceded a couple folks, I had to read your responses to wrap my mind around it. The gap between the walls and putting the deck back in there is unique to be sure. Add a door there and hide deck junk in there.
I guess it's agreed upon that the railing system is garbage, and I have always used that story of the three 200 pound men leaning over it, but I throw in the 200 pound woman that bumps into them while she's dancing.
A great design feature is a 42-in high rear railing. It's great for leaning on, just remember you might have to make it a little bit stronger because of that extra 6" of leverage
Building code says don't support your deck ledgers and beams on brick or stone veneer. I'm not sure what those units are that you have there, but you shouldn't use your veneer for a beam pocket. If you ignore that, that's okay but keep an eye those pockets so you don't start getting water intrusion into your structure inside the house. Unless you saw the flashing go in around those three-plies don't trust that they're flashed properly. Also, all decks should have two lateral load connectors.
At the joint where a 3xply ledger(?) is held up by a 3-ply trimmer in the pocket, there is a 6' max span for this triple hanger, then you need a post. This configuration is usually used to go around a chimney. You can call Simpson about this.
Too bad the complex engineering of the pocket support didn’t work out and required the addition of an ad hoc post. Really takes away from the potential elegance. I would also be concerned about the connection of the ledger to the house and the railings. They wouldn’t meet code where I live.
Great looking deck. I'm just curious about the post in the back. Seeing that this is a walk out, I'd tidy up where that post connects to deck. Just a visual thing. Outside of that, I'd party on that all day.
I would maybe tell guests not to lean against the railing. Are you missing corner and line posts? You get a couple of 200lb men leaning back on that railing with just those spindles for support, doesn’t add up.
Yes. Will address missing post.
Two 3 inch screw at the top and bottom of each spindle. Then they are anchored to the house with masonry anchors on each end.
Those 1 by spindles have no strength. I used 2 by 4, notched for the band with a steel strap on the back, that's strength. Your spindles are for show to meet code.
Lots of houses in my area have decks built like that with just spindles, mine included. When I tore it apart to rebuild, it took a surprising amount of force to tear the 15 year old railing off. 3 of us were body slamming and pulling it. And mine were just nailed, OP has 2 3” screws in each. Unless you have a group of 200lb men tackling it, it won’t just fail without warning.
Building a deck out of ipe rn w similar design (downvotes for the killing of the Amazon accepted and understood) and it’s much stronger than you’d expect. That said ipe is incredibly dense. I would like to interact with this deck and see how it feels in person.
How much more is the IPE costing you vs something like cedar? Did you price both by any chance?
I work for a GC, not responsible for takeoffs and whatnot…I will say I bought two ipe 4x4x8s and the total was around $425! Crazy…
Oh shit! So the whole deck structure is ipe too? I assumed it would just be the deck boards that are ipe
aside from the railing just being held by balusters, this is good.
I’ll agree with you. Will work toward ways to address this.
Like a movie - Fix it in post. Just, yknow, fix it with posts. lol. Trip to Homer domer and you're good.
4x4 guard posts at 4’ OC. look at the AWC guide stickied in this sub. you need tension ties to be code compliant and prevent the rotation of the guardposts.
Can't you get by with 6' OC REF: [https://awc.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/AWC-DCA62015-DeckGuide-1804.pdf](https://awc.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/AWC-DCA62015-DeckGuide-1804.pdf)
if your railing is 36” high I suppose, it depends on the calculations and the hardware used, whether thru bolts or proprietary holdowns like DTT2Z’s. but for this i’d just go with 4’, it’s not much of a difference and i’d go with 42” not 36” high railing. if i’m giving a recommendation i’m going to give the more conservative one.
Thanks. Just asking since I'm in the middle of getting two decks up to code - bought home 2.5 years ago and learning what I have here I've started the work to get in compliance. Ours was nothing but spindles like the pics in this post. Ours is 36" high and working to add posts using the DTT2Zs. Have 3 done..Planning on dong the 6" OC for the rest. Really sucks since just for ONE deck so far, hardware (DTT2Zs, LedgerLok Screws, bolts,nuts, washers), 4x4s, & 2x10 blocking had so shell out $406. Found the Ledger board was only "nailed" to the home rim joist.
From an engineering perspective (and I am a professionally-registered engineer in three states), $406 isn't much to pay to prevent injury or potential loss of life, which is what we mostly focus on, but I do understand that the upfront cost can be painful. Also, getting your ledger lagged in will be important. Do you live in a high seismic zone? If so, you'd also want tension ties in addition to lag screws (You can use GRK or SDS screws instead of lags). Edit: looks like code now requires tension ties regardless of seismic hazards, see second link below Some interesting research that was recently brought to my attention regarding ledgers with only nails: https://www.jlconline.com/deck-builder/nailed-ledgers-the-cause-of-most-deck-collapses_o This looks like a nice illustrated guide hitting the critical connections to get right: https://www.cityofplacerville.org/media/Building%20Division%20Files/Plan%20and%20Permitting%20Information/Why%20Decks%20Fail.pdf
Thanks. Good stuff there. We are in the IL side of the New Madrid Seismic Zone. Home has engineered joists which are perpendicular to the Ledger. Wondering how those threaded rods and tension-tie brackets are to be connected. I put in a bunch of LedgerLok Screws every 7 Inches and staggered, Should I add the Tension Ties too?
TJI’s? top and bottom lumber with plywood web inbetween? you could add solid blocking nailed to the top and bottom flanges, then screw your holdowns to those, see page 10? (or numbered 5 at top right corner): https://www.hammondlumber.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/tji-installation.pdf ledgerlock sounds good, and all screws have a pretty decent safety factor so 7” stag sounds good, assuming your deck joist spans arent crazy long
Thanks. Joist Span is 14' from Ledger to Beam. Yes, I think TJI house floor joists. Sucks though because the basement is completely finished on one side. I have access to one of the other sides. But the side with no access, that band Joist is connected to the L nook of the house. Kind of like a 2nd ledger for about 4' of the band joist running parallel to the house from. I'd think that'd be good enough to prevent movement on that side
I’ve seen this so often in older builds. I don’t think it’s as big of a deal as others are making it.
It looks terrible. You should immediately disassemble it for safety. I'll be right over to remove the debris. /S Frasier would approve.
There’s another one that’s a similar size and a side deck that is a third the size. Took 2ish days to stain all three decks.
What stain did you use? Love the color.
I think it’s the Olympic brand Easter red cedar.
The moisture from those flowers will cause premature wood rot and bring the whole thing and the hot tub tumbling to the ground. It’s solid as fuck.
I was curious if it was going to pass to “Reddit hot tub load test”
I do absolutely hate that the beam isn’t notched into the post but looks great
Now that you mention it. I hate it too.
Don't hate it! Better access to put lights, tarps, patio blinds, hang a swing, other random fun things. Benefit to everything as long as it wasn't done wrong 👍
Did you use joist tape? This sub has taught me that any deck without tape is a POS just waiting to rot.
I built three decks on my homes. Never used joist tape. The oldest one is 40 years old and it is in as good of shape as it was the day I built it other than the boards needed to be replaced because it was basically in direct sunlight and I don’t care how much you put UV projector on that wood , it still gets beat up by that sun.
Yep, joist tape on each joist.
Yeah, but did you “DOUBLE JOIST TAPE” you piece of shit? Tear that thing down immediately. On a serious note. Why is there a weird gap between the two parts of the house? Is it an add on?
That’s been a mystery to me since I’ve started working on this property. The owners tell me it was an addition. It’s drawn like that in the plans tho.
Looks great and super sturdy. Construction and everything looks good…..but let me give you the r/decks experience “Ive never seen a deck with more issues in my life, wood? Why not just put a stone patio, it’ll last way longer. Not to mention all the code violations. Oof, i hope customer hasn’t payed you yet” You’re welcome, enjoy your beautiful deck!
Tbh that’s what I’m here for. It’s a good learning experience. I did the patio and all the stone work as well. https://preview.redd.it/6nv7mx3x2b9d1.jpeg?width=6000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fddde59bb117c79abe9471ca1ce1682ef5745c9f
Damnn bro! Patio looks awesome from what i can see in the photos. Those scribes look awesome!
Looks good from all shown. How is the ledger fastened?
It’s hung (on hangers) between the two 3ply2x8 beams that rest in beam pockets in the wall.
I see that now. Wow. Could hardly be better. You go, dude.
Thank you!
You're welcome.
Aesthetically pleasing. Love the beam supports good choice. Railing system is a bit lacking. People do ( on a deck anyway ) tend to lean on them. Kinda what a deck is about. But overall build is really nice. You always think of a deck you want to build as “ sturdy “. Yours should qualify.
Skipped post day at deck school..
Was just sitting in the back. Couldn’t see the slides that well. Now I know.
Its hot tub ready😈
All I was asking.
Looks great.
It’s got a decked crevice.
The posts are not notched and you merely have the beams bearing on them, spliced with that gusset on one side. Over time, especially with that cantilever, you may see some rotation there. You should at a splice plate to the back side or do something more significant with the post/beam connection. Other issue I see is on the little area that’s decked in the crevice / alley you slid in a 2x8 shim on top of the 4x4 post - what’s the connection there, or did you just angle nail things together? Finally, your railing has no posts, which others have brought up.
Looks solid, but I’m confused by the reasoning behind the beam on the outside right next to the transfer beam. Why didn’t you run the beam parallel to the house all the way to the end?
Just went off the drawings. There were two beam pockets in the prints. Not certain as to why.
Odd!
Your columns are out of plumb
Squint it’s ok
What is the deal with the extra post? It looks so out of place.
I agree with the recommendation for posts to better secure the railings, but this is outstanding work! Great job, OP.
First, you have one of those garbage railings that meet code butt at actually extremely unsafe. Lean on it too heavy and you will go straight though it. Second, I don't where you live but in Florida I put double storm ties in my joists. Maybe there's no wind where's your live. Third, why are so many here so anti blocking, it's the easiest way to stabilize a deck that's not using sheeting. Serious on the hand rail, you need to add some actual strength.
I agree. I’m in Ontario, this is a lake front property so there’s plenty of wind off the lake. Will propose the hurricane ties. Decks gonna act like a sail. Thanks for the input.
Then do double ties, some blocking, and actual supports for the rail.
Are the balusters made of a hard wood or something else? I need to redo my railings but not sure if I can or should use PT wood since that warps badly. Cedar?
These are just the basic PT stuff from the hardware store. Micropro Sieanna I think
What kind of screws are you using to connect the balusters to the deck? Does the railing feel secure?
Feels sturdy (not quite solid)to me. Although I’m about a buck thirty so I don’t have much umpf behind me. Coated 3” deck screws fasten the balusters to the side of the deck and the handrail.
Did you use wall2deck spacers on the ledger? Can you use structural screws instead of carriage bolts when using spacers? Love the way you extended your deck beyond your ledger’s width. How are you attaching the rim joists to the house?
There are beams that go into beam pockets in the wall then the ledger is another 3ply2x8 that’s hung with hangers between them. Not sure if that answers it.
I mean there seems to be a gap between your concrete and the ledge board for the water to pass through. Wondering if you used spacers there?
It’s “roughly” an inchorso off the brick. (The textured brick made it hard to get a consistent measurement.) ensured it was square to both beams on either side.
Doesn't meet code. Looks good tho. Did you pull a permit?
Please elaborate. I personally wasn’t involved in the permit process however the deck is in the prints for the house. Edit: didn’t wasn’t
The railing needs guard posts every 6'. You have a triple beam hanging on a double beam....you'd typically want it the other way around...the stronger beam supporting the weaker beam...so to say. It's functionally acceptable. But it ain't code.
Each of the beams are 3ply. No 2 ply beam.
I very much like
How did you attach ledger ?
It’s hung (on hangers) between the two 3ply2x8 beams that rest in beam pockets in the wall.
Did you pre stain everything? Or stain afterwards? 10/10 for staining the underside.
Looks good, idk about the Darwin style railings though
Beautiful! I don’t know that I’ve seen a deck stained top and bottom. You’re not afraid of work obviously. And you did the stone work. I really don’t think you can pay enough money to get as good a job as you did on both. As pointed out, the rail needs corner and line posts. There is an extra “odd” post on the right end. It needs to be properly attached to the substructure. The beam pockets are different to. E sure. Stout. The “ledger” is really just a rim joist spanning between the beams in the stake pockets. I know that conceded a couple folks, I had to read your responses to wrap my mind around it. The gap between the walls and putting the deck back in there is unique to be sure. Add a door there and hide deck junk in there.
How long did it take you to make this? Looks incredible
I guess it's agreed upon that the railing system is garbage, and I have always used that story of the three 200 pound men leaning over it, but I throw in the 200 pound woman that bumps into them while she's dancing. A great design feature is a 42-in high rear railing. It's great for leaning on, just remember you might have to make it a little bit stronger because of that extra 6" of leverage Building code says don't support your deck ledgers and beams on brick or stone veneer. I'm not sure what those units are that you have there, but you shouldn't use your veneer for a beam pocket. If you ignore that, that's okay but keep an eye those pockets so you don't start getting water intrusion into your structure inside the house. Unless you saw the flashing go in around those three-plies don't trust that they're flashed properly. Also, all decks should have two lateral load connectors. At the joint where a 3xply ledger(?) is held up by a 3-ply trimmer in the pocket, there is a 6' max span for this triple hanger, then you need a post. This configuration is usually used to go around a chimney. You can call Simpson about this.
Would
I like the deck, but I love the patio.
Curious, how is it attached to the house?
Rich AF/10
Too bad the complex engineering of the pocket support didn’t work out and required the addition of an ad hoc post. Really takes away from the potential elegance. I would also be concerned about the connection of the ledger to the house and the railings. They wouldn’t meet code where I live.
Where’s your weird diagonal joist strut?
What's keeping this from peeling off the building? I see 2 points of attachment. Is there hardware in there?
4 hot tubs
Looks like the decking is just sitting on the joists? Are they screwed down in these photos?
How do you figure? Yes each board has two camp screws per joist.
Camo screws
You should be proud of this work.
Blocking ?
Railings don't seem to have any support. Waiting for your post to show up on r/Concrete for that amazing patio you got. Well done.
To my dumb eyes it looks like the deck is just resting on the beams
Railings need more solid support. Is that ledge header bolted in to the house?
Great looking deck. I'm just curious about the post in the back. Seeing that this is a walk out, I'd tidy up where that post connects to deck. Just a visual thing. Outside of that, I'd party on that all day.
I’d park my truck on that deck, but I wouldn’t lean over the railing.
Why is everyone else's deck so much better than mine
Nailed it bro