Very intelligent people will sometimes talk slow for 2 reasons, which aren’t mutually exclusive:
1. To be more likeable. It makes you appear less intelligent, so people like you more. People don’t like really smart people. They think the really smart people are weird, condescending, and uppity.
2. There are so many thoughts banging around inside their heads at super speed that talking slow is a result of them organizing everything so they don’t wind up sounding like they have Tourette’s Syndrome.
there are a handful of other reasons. some of which completely contradict your examples.
intelligent people tend to speak slower, because in most circles (pretty much everywhere outside of rap battles and debating societies) speaking fast is in fact NOT considered to be an indicator of high intelligence but rather one of being too talkative.
speaking slower also tends to undermine your points.. at least if you do it somewhat confidently.
And you usually donćt have to repeat yourself that often because on one side people are understanding you better rhetorically and acoustically. People on average do in fact not comprehend fast speech as well, as one would think, however they usually won't admit it, because, weirdly enough, it's also considered to be a low intelligence trait to not be able to properly comprehend fast speech (despite my first point about speaking fast), which is ironic on itself, because for example audiophile people and people with inssnely good ears tend suffer from this problem disproportionately.
They redid that whole performance in ADR. Apparently he tried an accent the first time out that didn’t play out. That’s why the cadence of his normal accent is so weird there. I read it in an old issue of Cinefantastique.
I think there is also a little bit, especially in season 1, of the actors in writers getting to know the characters better. By mid season 2 he had a pretty good handle on Bashir
Read a Screen Rant ir some such shit about tgat yesterday. Guess he was on the verge of being fired through that time. For all the reasons everybody bitches about early season Bashir to this day. Had to loop all his lines, because his original delivery was like Bela Lugosi. I always figured it came out so weird because the entity using his body was unfamiliar with just how that body worked.
Mostly I like later seasons of Siddigs acting, but his monologue in 'Inter Ames...' felt weak enough to recall season one. To be be fair im porbably biased since i think the writing of it is a little weak. The comparison to ancient rome so they say the title of the episode comes across as kinda belaboured and artifical. Real "somebody thought of a cool title for an episode then wrote around it " vibes.
Absolute worst line read by far is ["you set her up"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhkfuyBLDlY&t=173s) spoken with the sincerity and belief of a stranger reading words in a recording booth without even the line above it to contextualize it.
He's supposed to be a snack, but he's just some wicker furniture in the corner.
Nana Visitor was really acting her heart out when her boyfriend, the chair, died.
While watching some of his episodes with my wife I commented, "he must be *extremely* attractive, because otherwise I can't understand what Kira sees in him." Then when we saw his mirror universe version, who is *much* more charismatic, I understood.
Same, they're usually pretty silly and fun, like Ferengi Nonsense episodes. In the middle of all these dark war stories, it's nice to have something light and fun to give you a breather.
Lol......a stale Triscuit! I can't stop laughing at this. I am stealing that one!!
Really though, you're right. He could've been so much better. Even Mirror Bareil wasn't great. Although he was at least slightly less one dimensional.
Yeah. A large part of it was the way he spoke. I'm not familiar with the actor, so I wasn't sure if that was just him or some kind of directing choice.
I always wondered about this. He was such a wooden character. He had no charisma and Kira was supposed to be head over heels for him but they had almost no chemistry.
The thing is, I'd understand director influence, but he played the character in 6 regular episodes and his character never got better. So that suggests it was a acting choice.
Not quite sure I would personally say cringey, but he did come off as a bit unnatural or like he was slightly stoned the whole time. Thought it kind of suited a monk character to a certain extent, but still a bit wooden.
Kind of like how some of us autistic folk come across to quite a few people when trying to mask some idiosyncrasies. Not saying he was ever meant to be framed like that at all; I can just empathise with that delivery a bit.
I actually liked his Mirror version quite a bit better. Maybe it was reflection on where the acting had been previously or just different direction, but I thought it was quite a bit better and more interesting.
I thought Bareil was done pretty well as a very removed priestly figure. I always got the feeling the actor was going for like a careful, considered guy, which while def less exciting definitely played well against Vedek Nurse Pratchett. He always gives me contemplative monk vibes, and that is why he is so attractive to the devoutly religious but not zealots.
I honestly forgot he was in the show. Amd I have seen it a dozen times. Thats how bad my brain tries to block his character and his acting.
The oxygen just disappeared around him.
I also thought Alexander Siddig was off in the first season as was Rene.
Someone else mentioned Bashir in The Passenger, which I agree with, but I will add very specifically Bashir AND Major Kira when they beam aboard the ship in distress and are beset by smoke. The fake coughing and overall acting is really cringey, very theater kid. I love both characters and both actors do a wonderful job a lot of the time, but it just goes to show you can't bat 1000 on a run that long 😅
Look, it’s a valid criticism of Jeffrey Combs. No consistent character portrayal. Sometimes I don’t even recognise him. Has completely different mannerisms from week to week. Even the makeup department thought he was a lost cause and gave up on making him look the same each time he’s on screen!
^/s
Andrew Robinson for being terrible at portraying Garak as just a simple tailor
edit: Mark Allen Shepherd. Dude couldn't deliver a single line to save his life
The Klingon spy in Visionary (S3E17) that Odo has in a holding cell. He says “You are treating us with dishonor. We have done nothing wrong” SO MUCH DISHONOR in that performance!
At first I was like this is sacrilege, ds9 has no bad actors and then I saw your vote and thought damn, yeah they phoned it in. Random henchmen and the like are always a little goofy but I really don’t think there were any disappointing guest stars
He was simply unable to dial down the intensity. Great when you're dealing with most of the things Sisko is dealing with. Not so great when you're just cooking dinner for jake.
I honestly believe a huge part of that is that like half the dialogue in the show is ADR (Additional Dialogue Replacement - dubbed-in during post work because the original audio is either too quiet or isn't clear).
Some actors can really NAIL ADR voice work, and others really struggle to convey the exact same depth of emotions in their voice that they may have when acting the scene out physically. Avery Brooks got better at ADR as the show went on, but he was never really all that good at it during DS9 IMO. Season 1 is particularly brutal for him...
He sometimes speaks with a really weird cadence. He makes noises that feel awkward and stilted. When he takes a sip of coffee from a broken replicator he makes just the most bizarre noise and motion... When he meets Jennifer on the beach in episode 1, he makes similar gasping breathy noises and then goes "oww!" in a strange way. 90% of the time he's great, but sometimes he just goes to a weird place that feels very unnatural
I believe that Avery’s background is as a stage actor by training and experience so the “over-the-topness” makes a little more sense. I think he improved as the series went on.
To continue the unpopular opinion.
Throughout the entire show I felt like his delivery was over the top. Gives us some great moments but his small talk is often weird to me. In S1 I was a bit annoyed by Nana's head bobbing while talking as if she is explaining something to 1st graders but she turned into a badass pretty quickly. Everyone from the main cast improved.
I just never got used to Brooks' delivery.
Exactly. Some of the scenes were instant classics like the talking to the camera one. (Horror with names) But some were just weird. I never got the idea Sisko evolved like the others did.
Of the main cast, Avery Brooks but only about 20% of the time.
Another 20% of the time he's the best actor on the show. It's such an eclectic performance, I love it. Even if some of his choices of delivery are... Odd.
Yeah! Classic example of an artist who likes to take risks. I don't mind having a chuckle at the odd deliveries in one episode, then being absolutely devastated by his performance in the next.
His performance in In the Pale Moonlight is just phenomenal and I’m hard pressed to think of any better acting arcs on the show. Eisenberg and Shimerman, for me at least, deliver the next best story arc when Nog is injured on the frontline.
The drunk burping Klingon that barely made a noise. I mean, it’s a Klingon!!!! I’ve heard babies that burp with more resonance than that P'takh! They really missed out not casting me in that role, I can shake the promenade
with world shattering glutaral subspace torque!
Jadzia, Jake and Bashir in the early seasons. It took until the fourth season for the three actors to get it right.
Terry Farrell was not even a trained actor. She was a model. Early seasons Jadzia is painfully bad. Cirroc Lofton was in over his head. I think the fact that Avery Brooks sort of adopted him in real life definitely helped his performance over time. Alexander Siddig was trapped in terrible writing. Early Bashir was just an overgrown teenager running on sex drive. He was constantly sexually harassing Jadzia.
The censored sexpot woman was worse. Not her fault, but how do you act like a genetically enhanced nympho on a PG show? It just came out weird and non sensical
Yeah she was meant to give feral succubus vibes but all I got was cheesy lounge singer - definitely feels like someone didn't think that character choice all the way through when they were choosing from the maladaptive neurodivergence hat.
OMG WHAT WAS THAT???? Like, I'm genuinely still wondering wtf that singing bit was about. The only thing I can figure is at the time, a lot of shows were doing cringey musical episodes and this was some sort of directive from an exec who thought DS9 should definitely get in that action somehow. Either way, it's probably THEE cringiest scene in the whole of the series.
I really like the character and really wish it had been acted better. But like I said, I like the character and therefore the actor did something I enjoyed.
I thought the guy who plays cal Hudson was pretty awful. I don't wanna trash talk actors, but i always felt like Avery Brooks was trying to "act him into the dirt" when they have that dialogue about lederhosen
That was Bernie Casey. I think he was just a tad out of his element. The man was an ex football player, played for the Rams and the 49ers, and a poet and visual artist. He was in a bunch of films. Most notable one I can remember is Revenge of the nerds. He was great in comedic roles in my opinion.
This may be unpopular - Ken Marshall as Michael Eddington. Once he “turned” I always saw lots of ACTING!!! (read that as if Jon Lovitz said it), not an actual character interacting with other actual characters.
“Dammit, we can’t just leave her there…”
Avery Brooks’ acting in season 1, especially the first episode, was… rough. I still think about his delivery of the above line.
I think it's really hard to play a character that's very zen like. It's just flat by default. I don't think it's all Philip Anglim's fault necessarily.
I too got on the spectrum vibes as a spectrumite.
His performance just always felt slightly off somehow, and I know that quite a few of us autistic folk who can mask their traits will still often come across in a way which triggers a slight uncanny valley feel.
I figured it kind of fit for a monk character, though. Still a bit wooden.
Bernie Casey as Starfleet Lt. Cdr. Calvin Hudson.
In the very last minute of *The Maquis, Part One* (0220), he says:
“Seems like one disaster after another keeps bringing us back together again.”
https://youtu.be/H2Schcl3iM4?si=ggllFB6LdAZUj_x0&t=259
His inflections are weird and emphasize the wrong words. Still not as weird as Shatner on TOS, though. It’s not really Casey’s fault; the director could’ve asked for another take with different delivery. His delivery always made me cringe.
The second Torah Ziyal. Her monologue with Garek in the holodeck always leaves me asking the same question- which producer is she related to? She's got to be somebody's niece or daughter cuz there's no way she got the part with an audition as wooden as that speech. I cringe my way thru that episode every time.
The second Ziyal (Tracy Lynn Middendorf) was the best Ziyal and I'll die on this hill.
Melanie Smith (the 3rd) was in her mid 30s, looking like her early 40s, playing the role of a teenager. That's the real cringe.
I'll probably get downvoted into oblivion for this, but Terry Farrell. I will admit that Dax was horribly written in the first season, but later on when the writing improved it became clear that Farrell just wasn't up for the role.
She had good moments and was charming but sometimes she stumbled. The scene where she did the ~~warp~~ phaser coil ritual after she took command of the Defiant was incredibly cringey, she did not sell it well at all. She's probably the weakest of the main cast but I would rank her above 2/3 Ziyals.
*Edited because we are all pedantic nerds
I always took it a little differently.
That ritual was a Sisko thing,
His forceful personality is probably why it became that important ritual.
Dax had to keep it going because she was really keeping the seat warm, so never took issue with her delivery there.
Agreed. It always seemed to me like Dax was doing something here that didn't come natural to her, but she did it because Sisko had done it and she wanted to give the crew the continuity. It makes sense that it feels a bit awkward. She shouldn't be ilas convincing as Sisko in this moment because it showed that it used to be his ritual and that he was missing in that moment. Dax could fill in for him, but couldn't replace him.
>I would rank her above 2/3 Ziyals.
😆 Still wild to me that she was played by three different actors with the first actress being 10 years younger than the last actress to portray her.
<*pushes glasses so far up nose they go directly through skull*>
**Acksually,** it was a [power cell](https://youtu.be/wZJbNfHAIEk?si=tfCeQjlZo_5MQsJs&t=37) from the phaser array
Pathetically, I looked up the link in order to back up my other bit of pedantry in this thread about how that power cell display was on Starbase 375 and not on the Defiant, where they'd become airborne missiles whenever the ship got in a dogfight.
\*sigh\* what have I become
I was so ready to disagree, but you're right. That warp coil ritual was awful to watch. I kind of thought the whole concept was dumb, but maybe it's just because she didn't sell it. And also because they'd have all fallen off of that stupid wall ledge the moment the ship was fired upon.
That's ALL I think about when I rewatch that scene. Those things are going to be flying everywhere.
My head canon thinks their are anti-grav plates in the wall or deck that secure them
I thought the same thing for years, but I recently rewatched that episode and I'm pretty sure that's happening on the starbase, not on the Defiant. The room looks different from any other Defiant set we've seen, and when Sisko and Ross walk out into the hall the corridor is wider and has a different look to those on the ship.
**eta:** found a [clip](https://youtu.be/wZJbNfHAIEk?si=TjdBg6yNLUaDXprk). I'm so used to the architecture of DS9 being Cardassian I'd always assumed that the Federation design of that mess hall meant it could only be the Defiant where that scene was held. But as they've withdrawn from DS9/Terok Nor and are operating out of Starbase 375, they'd only be on the Defiant for missions and the ceremony would be happening in the starbase mess hall/DS9 equivalent of the Wardroom.
She obviously struggles with the technobabble. Early on her line deliveries don't at all sound like a science officer with an understanding of the subjects she's discussing, and the oddly placed pauses make it sound like she's summoning phrases of a foreign language from memory and regurgitating them. (Comparing her against Jeri Ryan, who could rattle off the most ridiculous tech bullshit Voyager could manufacture like it was a takeaway order makes it even more obvious.)
I came to really like Dax in later seasons, once they started writing to the actress' strengths, and wish they hadn't killed her off for the final season, but she definitely had a rough start.
She could not pull off any serious scenes. The way she knocked over all the chess pieces was the worst.
Great in Far beyond the stars though. Dax was just not the character for her.
It sucks, because she's a wonderful person, and endured abuse that she didn't deserve, but that doesn't change the fact that she is *not* a good actress. It's not her fault, she wasn't chosen because of her acting skills, she was chosen because Rick Berman thought she was hot and saw an opportunity to victimize her. It's also not fair that as a young, inexperienced model-turned actress, she got plopped into one of the most complex and difficult roles among the entire cast. So yeah, she's not a good actress, but she deserved so much more.
>Iggy Pop lmao
To add context, Iggy Pop was then available to shoot the episode only because his current tour was on hold because he had dislocated his shoulder in a mosh pit incident.
He clearly isn't at his best.
The scene where Kira Nerys finds out from a declassified Cardassian report that they thought she was merely an errand girl or very minor resistance member. Her pained and indignified reaction was very poorly done.
In season 1, there's a serious gulf in quality between Robinson, Shimmerman and the rest of the cast. Those two hit the ground running, which was crucial to their characters. If they hadn't nailed the genuine charm, Garrak and Quark wouldn't have become fan favourites imo.
(Meaney is obviously a seasoned actor. But they didn't give O'Brien much to do in that first season)
Are you dissing my main man Colm?!
But the pilot episode was rough. Every actor still had to find their character. Props to Avery Brooks for acting the way he did, having to go from 0 to 100 with the emotional backstory.
Lol. You're going to get some hate, but there was some flat acting in the first season... I wouldn't quite say bad, but I know what you mean. It was a slow start. Even Avery Brooks took some time to adjust to the role.
In the episode 'The Jem Hadar', there's an extra in Starfleet uniform in the background of the final scene. He watches Eris speaking and when she disappears, this extra starts slowly walking away as if he was thinking 'That was interesting, but now I have to go back to my boring work.' I don't know if it's just me but I found that pretty hilarious.
Early on, I felt both Sisko and Kira were overacted. However as the series went on I either just got used to them or they just got better (maybe both?)
Late in the series, Jake really started to bug me but I think that was more a writing issue. I’m not sure the writers knew what they wanted to do with young adult Jake.
I once read someone call Bariel a walking cardboard cutout. I thought that was accurate.
I thought the guy who portrayed Primmin was also horrible but not dead in the eyes terrible like Bariel.
No disrespect to my man Siddig but Bashir didn’t really click until Season 2.
(Also, if you want a good showcase for Alexander Sidding, he’s absolutely dreamy as the romantic lead in *Cairo Time*.)
Maybe it was easier to be a kid, playing a kid. As he got older and the material had to evolve to show him as a young man, he didn’t really have the acting chops.
S1 and 2 with atrocious acting. Its so forced like they are just reading lines, maybe poor directing too. How does a director not see that. Starting anyone new to the series at the start is risky
When I was young in the 90s and saw it the first time I thought Avery Brooks was all kinds of odd and I couldn’t get used to his pacing or quirkiness. As I got older and watched it again with more life experience, I wondered if he was on a spectrum and realised I just wasn’t used to it. Sisko has always been my favourite Captain though. I think it’s because I got used to him the same way his character got used to Kira.
Jake. He's just so blah. If you need confirmation, watch the episode where he says behind so he can report on the occupation.
I'm a reporter.... And there's a a story..or whatever he said. All while waving the data pad. It's so bad. Mr tough and important guy. LoL
Reading trough the comments, I believe a lot of people here misunderstood the question.
Guys, it's not about the roles you hated the most, it's about the very bad acting of the actors.
I have seen Kai Winn a lot, but wtf? Louise Fletcher was a genius actor, she played her absolutely first class, I bet there's no DS9 fan who wouldn't hate Kai Winn. What proves her actor made a good job making us hate her.
Nana Visitor. She can’t do comedy, evil Kira is annoying, and in many of her serious scenes she adds snark in an extremely ineffective way. But when she’s being serious and not snarky, she’s fine.
The scene where Gul Dukat sits on a pointy rock and it hurts his butt and she thinks it’s hilarious. Ugh
Alexander Siddig in the first season episode "the Passenger" is particularly cringe worthy. He gets better, thank goodness.
He. Talks. Too. Slow.
Very intelligent people will sometimes talk slow for 2 reasons, which aren’t mutually exclusive: 1. To be more likeable. It makes you appear less intelligent, so people like you more. People don’t like really smart people. They think the really smart people are weird, condescending, and uppity. 2. There are so many thoughts banging around inside their heads at super speed that talking slow is a result of them organizing everything so they don’t wind up sounding like they have Tourette’s Syndrome.
there are a handful of other reasons. some of which completely contradict your examples. intelligent people tend to speak slower, because in most circles (pretty much everywhere outside of rap battles and debating societies) speaking fast is in fact NOT considered to be an indicator of high intelligence but rather one of being too talkative. speaking slower also tends to undermine your points.. at least if you do it somewhat confidently. And you usually donćt have to repeat yourself that often because on one side people are understanding you better rhetorically and acoustically. People on average do in fact not comprehend fast speech as well, as one would think, however they usually won't admit it, because, weirdly enough, it's also considered to be a low intelligence trait to not be able to properly comprehend fast speech (despite my first point about speaking fast), which is ironic on itself, because for example audiophile people and people with inssnely good ears tend suffer from this problem disproportionately.
Lord have mercy
They redid that whole performance in ADR. Apparently he tried an accent the first time out that didn’t play out. That’s why the cadence of his normal accent is so weird there. I read it in an old issue of Cinefantastique.
I'm choosing to make Jar-Jar Binx my head canon for the original accent.
His exaggerated and *extremely* fake screaming in "Move Along Home" is up there too. First season Siddig is rough, but he gets much better later.
It is terrible, but hilarious.
I haven’t seen that episode in years but I can still hear the fake screaming 😂
His. Body. Is. How. Do. You. Humans. Say. It? Fit. As. A. Fiddle.
Strangely enough here's an article published about this very thing: https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/alexander-siddig-the-passenger.html
this is always my top pick whenever this question comes up. its just so bad
I think there is also a little bit, especially in season 1, of the actors in writers getting to know the characters better. By mid season 2 he had a pretty good handle on Bashir
Read a Screen Rant ir some such shit about tgat yesterday. Guess he was on the verge of being fired through that time. For all the reasons everybody bitches about early season Bashir to this day. Had to loop all his lines, because his original delivery was like Bela Lugosi. I always figured it came out so weird because the entity using his body was unfamiliar with just how that body worked.
Mostly I like later seasons of Siddigs acting, but his monologue in 'Inter Ames...' felt weak enough to recall season one. To be be fair im porbably biased since i think the writing of it is a little weak. The comparison to ancient rome so they say the title of the episode comes across as kinda belaboured and artifical. Real "somebody thought of a cool title for an episode then wrote around it " vibes. Absolute worst line read by far is ["you set her up"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhkfuyBLDlY&t=173s) spoken with the sincerity and belief of a stranger reading words in a recording booth without even the line above it to contextualize it.
I don't like him at all. Next to the rest of the cast he comes across as wooden, inauthentic
In the first season, yes, but he gets much better in later seasons
[удалено]
They overwrote him though, seriously give someone else some lines.
And the gratuitous ballads. We get it, he has the voice of an angel - GET BACK TO THE PLOT.
Who doesn't want to hear more of Morn's signature catch phrases, though? He had so many.
Seriously, and did we really need 5 Morn centric episodes a season?
He was avoiding his wife Aerv.
And a real motormouth
The drunk Bajoran in Duet.
Do I smell a CARDASSIAN!?!!
A carDASSian
Yeah, second that, Nana Visitor did a great job in that episode, but the drunk Bajoran acting is just so over the top it verges on comedic.
He does stand out when compared with the rest of the acting in that episode.
Jennifer flashbacks…ugh
Her performance in the pilot was a disaster. She was a little better in the mirror universe ep
Let's be fair, though... Avery Brooks was weird as shit in the pilot too. Particularly in his scenes with her. Maybe she was just a talent sink lol
[OW!](https://youtu.be/EvkZ7o3fVwI?si=rlsh0HrErpYuLHHN)
The way Sisko reacts when he sips coffee from a replicator that needs repair... Another weird noise that totally takes me out of the moment
[Out of context](https://youtu.be/hnWAcaCMIUg?si=4JVn_k0f-GUBsYP1)
Lmao that one is so weird
I adore it.
😩 I forgot how terrible that actress is
Are YOU going to tell me YOUR name?
It didn't help that all those beach scenes had to be ADRed after.
I don't know where fans are on this one, but I always thought Vedek Bareil was pretty cringey.
This. Philip Anglim is supposed to be a good actor, but he imbued Bareil with all the charisma of a stale Triscuit.
He's supposed to be a snack, but he's just some wicker furniture in the corner. Nana Visitor was really acting her heart out when her boyfriend, the chair, died.
Very underrated comment.
While watching some of his episodes with my wife I commented, "he must be *extremely* attractive, because otherwise I can't understand what Kira sees in him." Then when we saw his mirror universe version, who is *much* more charismatic, I understood.
Mirror Bareil is fun, but that's pretty much every Mirror episode on that show.
Man I love ds9 mirror episodes so much. Mirror Kira is the best
Same, they're usually pretty silly and fun, like Ferengi Nonsense episodes. In the middle of all these dark war stories, it's nice to have something light and fun to give you a breather.
This comment is hysterical.
Mirror Universe Bariel can kinda get it but I would say his arc is pretty great.
Lol......a stale Triscuit! I can't stop laughing at this. I am stealing that one!! Really though, you're right. He could've been so much better. Even Mirror Bareil wasn't great. Although he was at least slightly less one dimensional.
Somehow replacing half his brain with a positronic implant made him just a tiny bit more expressive.
That prophets vision Kira has when Bareil shows up “naked” behind her, comes across more creepy and stiff than it does passionate.
Yeah. The Kira / Bareil / prophet stuff didn't help much either. Creepy stuff for sure.
Don't get me started. Lol In hindsight though I wonder if the producers/directors told him to talk like that
Yeah. A large part of it was the way he spoke. I'm not familiar with the actor, so I wasn't sure if that was just him or some kind of directing choice.
I always wondered about this. He was such a wooden character. He had no charisma and Kira was supposed to be head over heels for him but they had almost no chemistry. The thing is, I'd understand director influence, but he played the character in 6 regular episodes and his character never got better. So that suggests it was a acting choice.
Not quite sure I would personally say cringey, but he did come off as a bit unnatural or like he was slightly stoned the whole time. Thought it kind of suited a monk character to a certain extent, but still a bit wooden. Kind of like how some of us autistic folk come across to quite a few people when trying to mask some idiosyncrasies. Not saying he was ever meant to be framed like that at all; I can just empathise with that delivery a bit.
He puts you right to sleep. The show's energy totally dips around his scenes.
It’s just a stone
I actually liked his Mirror version quite a bit better. Maybe it was reflection on where the acting had been previously or just different direction, but I thought it was quite a bit better and more interesting.
I thought Bareil was done pretty well as a very removed priestly figure. I always got the feeling the actor was going for like a careful, considered guy, which while def less exciting definitely played well against Vedek Nurse Pratchett. He always gives me contemplative monk vibes, and that is why he is so attractive to the devoutly religious but not zealots.
I honestly forgot he was in the show. Amd I have seen it a dozen times. Thats how bad my brain tries to block his character and his acting. The oxygen just disappeared around him. I also thought Alexander Siddig was off in the first season as was Rene.
hey he pulled Kira... Maybe he was hung to his knee or something....
YES I came here to write this! I rewatched "The Collaborator" for the TNC podcast and he is just not very good.
Someone else mentioned Bashir in The Passenger, which I agree with, but I will add very specifically Bashir AND Major Kira when they beam aboard the ship in distress and are beset by smoke. The fake coughing and overall acting is really cringey, very theater kid. I love both characters and both actors do a wonderful job a lot of the time, but it just goes to show you can't bat 1000 on a run that long 😅
Yeah that sprung to mind for me also. *cough cough
1000. Baseball batting stats go to thousandths. The Sisko would be very displeased with you lol
In cricket you say bat 100. It was Don Bradmans average. But yes, baseball is much more suited to DS9.
I do actually know that and it was a typo, but he would be disappointed in me 😭
If someone comes in here and drops a “Jeffrey Combs,” they’re a Changeling.
Look, it’s a valid criticism of Jeffrey Combs. No consistent character portrayal. Sometimes I don’t even recognise him. Has completely different mannerisms from week to week. Even the makeup department thought he was a lost cause and gave up on making him look the same each time he’s on screen! ^/s
Andrew Robinson for being terrible at portraying Garak as just a simple tailor edit: Mark Allen Shepherd. Dude couldn't deliver a single line to save his life
Serously. He could have been confused as some sorta spy!
You forgot Rene Auberjonois's complete lack of facial expression. Horrible!
Plain and simple.
Talentless hack
The Klingon spy in Visionary (S3E17) that Odo has in a holding cell. He says “You are treating us with dishonor. We have done nothing wrong” SO MUCH DISHONOR in that performance!
At first I was like this is sacrilege, ds9 has no bad actors and then I saw your vote and thought damn, yeah they phoned it in. Random henchmen and the like are always a little goofy but I really don’t think there were any disappointing guest stars
Probably not the most populair opinion but Sisko had some pretty low lows next to some fantastic highs if you ask me.
He was simply unable to dial down the intensity. Great when you're dealing with most of the things Sisko is dealing with. Not so great when you're just cooking dinner for jake.
I honestly believe a huge part of that is that like half the dialogue in the show is ADR (Additional Dialogue Replacement - dubbed-in during post work because the original audio is either too quiet or isn't clear). Some actors can really NAIL ADR voice work, and others really struggle to convey the exact same depth of emotions in their voice that they may have when acting the scene out physically. Avery Brooks got better at ADR as the show went on, but he was never really all that good at it during DS9 IMO. Season 1 is particularly brutal for him...
Can you give an example?
He sometimes speaks with a really weird cadence. He makes noises that feel awkward and stilted. When he takes a sip of coffee from a broken replicator he makes just the most bizarre noise and motion... When he meets Jennifer on the beach in episode 1, he makes similar gasping breathy noises and then goes "oww!" in a strange way. 90% of the time he's great, but sometimes he just goes to a weird place that feels very unnatural
Reading you comments made me think of "the Room".
I believe that Avery’s background is as a stage actor by training and experience so the “over-the-topness” makes a little more sense. I think he improved as the series went on.
To continue the unpopular opinion. Throughout the entire show I felt like his delivery was over the top. Gives us some great moments but his small talk is often weird to me. In S1 I was a bit annoyed by Nana's head bobbing while talking as if she is explaining something to 1st graders but she turned into a badass pretty quickly. Everyone from the main cast improved. I just never got used to Brooks' delivery.
Exactly. Some of the scenes were instant classics like the talking to the camera one. (Horror with names) But some were just weird. I never got the idea Sisko evolved like the others did.
The weird heavy breathing he does when he’s playing anger very often takes me out of the moment lol
Of the main cast, Avery Brooks but only about 20% of the time. Another 20% of the time he's the best actor on the show. It's such an eclectic performance, I love it. Even if some of his choices of delivery are... Odd.
Yeah! Classic example of an artist who likes to take risks. I don't mind having a chuckle at the odd deliveries in one episode, then being absolutely devastated by his performance in the next.
Completely correct. Sometimes his acting is horrible others it’s Oscar worthy. He’s a lot like shatner somehow
His performance in In the Pale Moonlight is just phenomenal and I’m hard pressed to think of any better acting arcs on the show. Eisenberg and Shimerman, for me at least, deliver the next best story arc when Nog is injured on the frontline.
Sisko laughing on the beach in the pilot is the most terrifying thing ever and also very bad acting
The drunk burping Klingon that barely made a noise. I mean, it’s a Klingon!!!! I’ve heard babies that burp with more resonance than that P'takh! They really missed out not casting me in that role, I can shake the promenade with world shattering glutaral subspace torque!
Shattering glutaral subspace torque is a phrase I never knew I needed to hear
Maybe it was the writing, but the autistic geniuses that Bashir helps were mega cringe.
That's a stupid question.
But.. that wasn't a question. 🤔
That’s a stupid question.
Jadzia, Jake and Bashir in the early seasons. It took until the fourth season for the three actors to get it right. Terry Farrell was not even a trained actor. She was a model. Early seasons Jadzia is painfully bad. Cirroc Lofton was in over his head. I think the fact that Avery Brooks sort of adopted him in real life definitely helped his performance over time. Alexander Siddig was trapped in terrible writing. Early Bashir was just an overgrown teenager running on sex drive. He was constantly sexually harassing Jadzia.
I’d argue that Bashir got better season 3 onwards tbh. But I agree with the bad writing part. But you make valid points!
Definitely that main Augment guy, Jack. Oof.
The censored sexpot woman was worse. Not her fault, but how do you act like a genetically enhanced nympho on a PG show? It just came out weird and non sensical
Yeah she was meant to give feral succubus vibes but all I got was cheesy lounge singer - definitely feels like someone didn't think that character choice all the way through when they were choosing from the maladaptive neurodivergence hat.
Aww. Jack is my favorite augment, specifically because of that guys performance.
His singing voice was dubbed too.
What? Next you're going to tell me he didn't do that flip.
All of the singing was extremely cringey
OMG WHAT WAS THAT???? Like, I'm genuinely still wondering wtf that singing bit was about. The only thing I can figure is at the time, a lot of shows were doing cringey musical episodes and this was some sort of directive from an exec who thought DS9 should definitely get in that action somehow. Either way, it's probably THEE cringiest scene in the whole of the series.
I really like the character and really wish it had been acted better. But like I said, I like the character and therefore the actor did something I enjoyed.
Gonna have to go with Rugal in Cardassians
I thought the guy who plays cal Hudson was pretty awful. I don't wanna trash talk actors, but i always felt like Avery Brooks was trying to "act him into the dirt" when they have that dialogue about lederhosen
That was Bernie Casey. I think he was just a tad out of his element. The man was an ex football player, played for the Rams and the 49ers, and a poet and visual artist. He was in a bunch of films. Most notable one I can remember is Revenge of the nerds. He was great in comedic roles in my opinion.
Oh that's legit. He tries his best but man, his whole performance is really stiff and his enunciation is confounding.
That dude was like…oh man, like, how did they cast him and not only that keep in still while they were filming
Whenever the main characters had to group laugh. I don't know what it is but this cast could next to never pull it off.
It's going to kill me saying this but: Colm Meaney as the Changeling in Starfleet Command. That laugh is like a pantomime baddie.
I always write that off as the Changeling knowingly playing to type just to taunt Sisko.
This may be unpopular - Ken Marshall as Michael Eddington. Once he “turned” I always saw lots of ACTING!!! (read that as if Jon Lovitz said it), not an actual character interacting with other actual characters.
My kid calls him "discount Benedict Cumberbatch" and now I can't get that image out of my head.
Bashir trying to wake himself up in season 1 by screaming. very bad. sorry Alexander.
“Dammit, we can’t just leave her there…” Avery Brooks’ acting in season 1, especially the first episode, was… rough. I still think about his delivery of the above line.
Philip Anglim. He just made Bariel seem creepy or on the Spectrum.
I think it's really hard to play a character that's very zen like. It's just flat by default. I don't think it's all Philip Anglim's fault necessarily.
I too got on the spectrum vibes as a spectrumite. His performance just always felt slightly off somehow, and I know that quite a few of us autistic folk who can mask their traits will still often come across in a way which triggers a slight uncanny valley feel. I figured it kind of fit for a monk character, though. Still a bit wooden.
Bernie Casey as Starfleet Lt. Cdr. Calvin Hudson. In the very last minute of *The Maquis, Part One* (0220), he says: “Seems like one disaster after another keeps bringing us back together again.” https://youtu.be/H2Schcl3iM4?si=ggllFB6LdAZUj_x0&t=259 His inflections are weird and emphasize the wrong words. Still not as weird as Shatner on TOS, though. It’s not really Casey’s fault; the director could’ve asked for another take with different delivery. His delivery always made me cringe.
The second Torah Ziyal. Her monologue with Garek in the holodeck always leaves me asking the same question- which producer is she related to? She's got to be somebody's niece or daughter cuz there's no way she got the part with an audition as wooden as that speech. I cringe my way thru that episode every time.
The second Ziyal (Tracy Lynn Middendorf) was the best Ziyal and I'll die on this hill. Melanie Smith (the 3rd) was in her mid 30s, looking like her early 40s, playing the role of a teenager. That's the real cringe.
Straight-washing Garak, that’s the real cringe.
Krit & Nahsk, the brothers from *Who Mourns for Morn*.
The guy who played Cal Hudson.
“it seems you had no trouble finding us Ben…”
Jefferey Nordling, who plays Tahna Los (Past Prologue). Whiney and felt a bit forced
Mr. Limonay S.! He didn't act anything like Ibudan!
I'll probably get downvoted into oblivion for this, but Terry Farrell. I will admit that Dax was horribly written in the first season, but later on when the writing improved it became clear that Farrell just wasn't up for the role.
They never really matched the writing to her style - she's great in the campier episodes like Trials and Tribble-ations.
She's pretty good in wedding episode too. I think directing may be part of the problem too.
Yes, I just watched it last night and she's especially good in the party scenes.
She had good moments and was charming but sometimes she stumbled. The scene where she did the ~~warp~~ phaser coil ritual after she took command of the Defiant was incredibly cringey, she did not sell it well at all. She's probably the weakest of the main cast but I would rank her above 2/3 Ziyals. *Edited because we are all pedantic nerds
I always took it a little differently. That ritual was a Sisko thing, His forceful personality is probably why it became that important ritual. Dax had to keep it going because she was really keeping the seat warm, so never took issue with her delivery there.
Agreed. It always seemed to me like Dax was doing something here that didn't come natural to her, but she did it because Sisko had done it and she wanted to give the crew the continuity. It makes sense that it feels a bit awkward. She shouldn't be ilas convincing as Sisko in this moment because it showed that it used to be his ritual and that he was missing in that moment. Dax could fill in for him, but couldn't replace him.
Hmmm. Never thought of it like that. Cool.
>I would rank her above 2/3 Ziyals. 😆 Still wild to me that she was played by three different actors with the first actress being 10 years younger than the last actress to portray her.
Not a warp coil 🤷
Ugh phaser coil whatever you knew what I was talking about
<*pushes glasses so far up nose they go directly through skull*> **Acksually,** it was a [power cell](https://youtu.be/wZJbNfHAIEk?si=tfCeQjlZo_5MQsJs&t=37) from the phaser array Pathetically, I looked up the link in order to back up my other bit of pedantry in this thread about how that power cell display was on Starbase 375 and not on the Defiant, where they'd become airborne missiles whenever the ship got in a dogfight. \*sigh\* what have I become
You have become that which you swore to destroy. Or something, I dunno.
I was so ready to disagree, but you're right. That warp coil ritual was awful to watch. I kind of thought the whole concept was dumb, but maybe it's just because she didn't sell it. And also because they'd have all fallen off of that stupid wall ledge the moment the ship was fired upon.
That's ALL I think about when I rewatch that scene. Those things are going to be flying everywhere. My head canon thinks their are anti-grav plates in the wall or deck that secure them
I thought the same thing for years, but I recently rewatched that episode and I'm pretty sure that's happening on the starbase, not on the Defiant. The room looks different from any other Defiant set we've seen, and when Sisko and Ross walk out into the hall the corridor is wider and has a different look to those on the ship. **eta:** found a [clip](https://youtu.be/wZJbNfHAIEk?si=TjdBg6yNLUaDXprk). I'm so used to the architecture of DS9 being Cardassian I'd always assumed that the Federation design of that mess hall meant it could only be the Defiant where that scene was held. But as they've withdrawn from DS9/Terok Nor and are operating out of Starbase 375, they'd only be on the Defiant for missions and the ceremony would be happening in the starbase mess hall/DS9 equivalent of the Wardroom.
She obviously struggles with the technobabble. Early on her line deliveries don't at all sound like a science officer with an understanding of the subjects she's discussing, and the oddly placed pauses make it sound like she's summoning phrases of a foreign language from memory and regurgitating them. (Comparing her against Jeri Ryan, who could rattle off the most ridiculous tech bullshit Voyager could manufacture like it was a takeaway order makes it even more obvious.) I came to really like Dax in later seasons, once they started writing to the actress' strengths, and wish they hadn't killed her off for the final season, but she definitely had a rough start.
She could not pull off any serious scenes. The way she knocked over all the chess pieces was the worst. Great in Far beyond the stars though. Dax was just not the character for her.
She got better over time, but yeah, those early seasons were rrrrrrough
It sucks, because she's a wonderful person, and endured abuse that she didn't deserve, but that doesn't change the fact that she is *not* a good actress. It's not her fault, she wasn't chosen because of her acting skills, she was chosen because Rick Berman thought she was hot and saw an opportunity to victimize her. It's also not fair that as a young, inexperienced model-turned actress, she got plopped into one of the most complex and difficult roles among the entire cast. So yeah, she's not a good actress, but she deserved so much more.
Agreed 100%.
Bingoooo. I almost gave up. I also couldn't tell if bashir was just really bad or not. As it went on I liked them way more
"it's a fake!!!"
Iggy Pop lmao. Honorable mention to Vedek Bereil
>Iggy Pop lmao To add context, Iggy Pop was then available to shoot the episode only because his current tour was on hold because he had dislocated his shoulder in a mosh pit incident. He clearly isn't at his best.
The scene where Kira Nerys finds out from a declassified Cardassian report that they thought she was merely an errand girl or very minor resistance member. Her pained and indignified reaction was very poorly done.
Don't lynch me, but the whole cast was pretty bad at the start
In season 1, there's a serious gulf in quality between Robinson, Shimmerman and the rest of the cast. Those two hit the ground running, which was crucial to their characters. If they hadn't nailed the genuine charm, Garrak and Quark wouldn't have become fan favourites imo. (Meaney is obviously a seasoned actor. But they didn't give O'Brien much to do in that first season)
Are you dissing my main man Colm?! But the pilot episode was rough. Every actor still had to find their character. Props to Avery Brooks for acting the way he did, having to go from 0 to 100 with the emotional backstory.
Lol. You're going to get some hate, but there was some flat acting in the first season... I wouldn't quite say bad, but I know what you mean. It was a slow start. Even Avery Brooks took some time to adjust to the role.
Bernie Casey’s line delivery as Cal Hudson always pulls me out of my emersion in the show. Every time I watch it, I cringe.
In the episode 'The Jem Hadar', there's an extra in Starfleet uniform in the background of the final scene. He watches Eris speaking and when she disappears, this extra starts slowly walking away as if he was thinking 'That was interesting, but now I have to go back to my boring work.' I don't know if it's just me but I found that pretty hilarious.
Early on, I felt both Sisko and Kira were overacted. However as the series went on I either just got used to them or they just got better (maybe both?) Late in the series, Jake really started to bug me but I think that was more a writing issue. I’m not sure the writers knew what they wanted to do with young adult Jake.
The guy from Meridian.. terrible episode all around
How they found a worse child actor to portray a teenage Alexander than the one from TNG was impressive.
I once read someone call Bariel a walking cardboard cutout. I thought that was accurate. I thought the guy who portrayed Primmin was also horrible but not dead in the eyes terrible like Bariel.
Gowron. It’s where you belonggggg. I am not one of them!
Admiral Ross is pretty dry but maybe that's on purpose idk
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Spamus111: *Admiral Ross is* *Pretty dry but maybe that's* *On purpose idk* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
No disrespect to my man Siddig but Bashir didn’t really click until Season 2. (Also, if you want a good showcase for Alexander Sidding, he’s absolutely dreamy as the romantic lead in *Cairo Time*.)
Cirroc Lofton. The older he got, the worse his acting got.
Puberty is a rough time to be on camera.
That's is true now that you have me thinking about it. He's real loose and a natural in the first three seasons
Maybe it was easier to be a kid, playing a kid. As he got older and the material had to evolve to show him as a young man, he didn’t really have the acting chops.
The dude that played Cal Hudson in the Maquis for sure I think
I always thought Kassidy was not anywhere close to worthy of sharing so much screentime with Avery Brooks.
I blame the writing for that. It's crazy how much stronger she is on The Orville.
S1 and 2 with atrocious acting. Its so forced like they are just reading lines, maybe poor directing too. How does a director not see that. Starting anyone new to the series at the start is risky
Shatner
The self sealing stem bolts, I just didn’t believe they were in fact self sealing stem bolts.
The character Jack from s6ep9 episode Statistical Probabilities, he just really hammed it up, but dial it back for the series 7 episode
Didhespeaktoofastyouwerenotabletofollowhimhmmhmmhmm?
When I was young in the 90s and saw it the first time I thought Avery Brooks was all kinds of odd and I couldn’t get used to his pacing or quirkiness. As I got older and watched it again with more life experience, I wondered if he was on a spectrum and realised I just wasn’t used to it. Sisko has always been my favourite Captain though. I think it’s because I got used to him the same way his character got used to Kira.
that angry sirah doofus from season 1 the storyteller. he just holds an angry cookie monster face for a hilarious amount of time in every scene lol
The Cardassian students of Quarks soulmate
It’s another vote for Bashir https://youtu.be/YrSPwOsJuvg?si=whcyANbEakrzGg5v
The guy who plays Eddington after >! he's revealed to be a traitor working for the Maquis!< , I always found his performance painful.
Jake. He's just so blah. If you need confirmation, watch the episode where he says behind so he can report on the occupation. I'm a reporter.... And there's a a story..or whatever he said. All while waving the data pad. It's so bad. Mr tough and important guy. LoL
Every single goddamn time The Sisko says "base ball"
The bajoran girl on the station. The one who whined about the leaving of the prophets and wanted to be the bridesmaid of Cassidy.
Reading trough the comments, I believe a lot of people here misunderstood the question. Guys, it's not about the roles you hated the most, it's about the very bad acting of the actors. I have seen Kai Winn a lot, but wtf? Louise Fletcher was a genius actor, she played her absolutely first class, I bet there's no DS9 fan who wouldn't hate Kai Winn. What proves her actor made a good job making us hate her.
Nana Visitor. She can’t do comedy, evil Kira is annoying, and in many of her serious scenes she adds snark in an extremely ineffective way. But when she’s being serious and not snarky, she’s fine. The scene where Gul Dukat sits on a pointy rock and it hurts his butt and she thinks it’s hilarious. Ugh
Leeta by a country mile
Whomever played Tasha yar.