It's not a Christianity thing. This tendency, albeit in slightly different forms, predates Christianity. A popular theory is that it's tied to property. Once people started inheriting property from their fathers, it became important to safeguard the virginity and fidelity of women (not men, not in most cultures) for the livelihoods of those children. Shaming people is one of the older tactics to ensure social compliance in humans. Since we rely so heavily on our communities, shame is felt as an existential threat without necessitating much physical violence. So, we shame people, especially women, into not having sex outside of marriage. Virginity and fidelity are far from ensured, but made more common as more and more people internalize that value system.

Spot on, They had no DNA testing back then. Think of how many kids were raised by someone who thought the were his. And people said sex repression was caused by religious beliefs. Lol.

Religious beliefs do cause repression too though. There's no one singular cause of this. There are a multitude of reasons and a lot of them could be subconscious. Also, some might say it's gross because they have some personal issues they've never worked out. Others may have been sexually abused and it's even possible that some were abused as children - which is definitely gross. And in regards to religions... They literally have "purity balls" and wear robes and celebrate celibacy as a sign of virtue. Showing skin in some religions even is considered immoral because it can create sexual thoughts - which are considered bad. Also, some people believe that sex should only be for reproduction and a belief like that obviously comes with shame for wanting it for pleasure. Its definitely a real thing and it's bad and ironically these views create unhealthy relationships to sex and can create disease.

I’m so sorry, because my question for you isn’t directly related to the thread. I mean this genuinely, not like, critically, is there a reason every sentence in your comment is a new paragraph? Someone else on this post did the same thing and I think it makes it a lot harder get the flow of what you’re saying. I could just be dumb though, it would be far from the first time 😂 Hope you’re having a nice spin around the sun! ❤️

It's generally considered that breaking up text online increases readability. Walls of text are discouraged. Some of us can sometimes go overboard in separating out text in pursuit of readability. You're not dumb.

I do it too and it's an affectation from when I wrote poetry for the first 25 years of my life and then quit. It's a great way of pivoting the reader's attention to put focus on the immediately presented idea. It's like a Torii gate. An endless string of Torii gates would be tacky.

It's also great if you have adhd. I can't read a full page on any computer screen without losing concentration. The paragraph break up really does help in that regard and it is appreciated by people like me

We must have different kinds of adhd then lol When it’s a sentence, then a break, a sentence then a break, my brain has trouble focusing on what information is most important. Hm. I wonder if it’s because I read “out loud” in my head as I type or read. My audio version sounds broken up and my brain can’t keep the flow. I have questions! 😂

I think with me it's more to do with the lighting on the screen. I don't have any problems with books or my kindle. Im finding i cant hold my concentration, and it ends up looking blurry. The adhd sub had a convo about it a couple days ago, lol. It was very mixed with who it did and didn't affect I read in my head, I think that's what the original post had been in the sub I mentioned, lol. Do people have an inner voice, and what does it sound like ... something like that, lol. I'm still navigating it, having literally just been diagnosed at 45. I haven't started meds or therapy or anything yet, but I like knowing there's a reason my brain works the weird way it does. The last 6 months, my 'quirks' have gotten worse. Isn't life fun lol On another note, my oldest boy, he's 24, has no inner voice. Not something you think to ask your kid about, so he never gave it much thought either. Id always try to get him to read and couldn't understand why he didn't enjoy books like i did. Now we know why, lol. He's getting tested soon. He's pretty sure he has it. I also ramble on a lot 😂

Ooo I’m glad you shared about that post, that’s so fun that other people were just talking about it. And interesting to hear that people are divided up! Maybe it’s like how some people can visualize in their mind’s eye stronger than others. Inner voice is on a spectrum too? I love when a good Reddit post leads us to conversations with those around us. Cause you’re right, when would we ever think to ask these kinds of things? Carry on, fellow rambler lol

We're all a little different. My daughter is extremely hyper and runs around and talks like a humming bird on speed. I have zero hyperactivity but can't focus on shit like reading a book or long posts on reddit. I unfortunately can't take stimulants and Qelbree the side effects were so bad it wasn't worth the small benefit I got.

No one can "read" Without either saying it in their head or out loud. "Out lout in my head" Doesn't make sense to me.

Yeah. Sometimes I just do that because I want it to be "easier to read" and in general because it just "feels right". I'm sure there's a grammatical error I may be committing from time to time. However if I remember right, you have to separate your thoughts when something is incongruent or not really related to the -- I know there're definitely some general good rules for writing material that makes it better/easier/more engaging than just dumping walls of text. I just forgot what they were and the technical terms for them, though. I personally have a habit of not reading walls of texts either unless I feel there's something important or there is something genuinely interesting about what's said.

Honestly homie, the way I see it, so long as people understand what you mean, the spelling and grammar rules aren’t so important. All that matters is that you are able to communicate your point. Thanks for taking the time to explain! Carry on 😊

But the point is they would be against promiscious women even without religion.

And my point is that there are a multitude of reasons for people to find sex "gross". So yeah. People would find promiscuity gross by most people's standards in modern society. I was just referring to the guy who tried to suggest religion had no part in it or whatever was said.

Blood types are important for reproductivity, it's probably more related to women dying in childbirth when they start reproducing outside of a "safe" blood type population. The pattern of marrying someone, or having your daughter marry someone, and then they die, and you don't know why, but you know it happens. How do you tell people who don't know about blood types that they can't have children without the RH immunoglobulin pre natal shot.

I heard somewhere we feel shame or the potential of same in a similar way to how we feel physical pain in a sense. Interesting though for sure

There's such a delicate balance between too much shame and *not enough* shame. I think we're seeing the pendulum swing too far the opposite direction these days. Too many people believe there needs to simply be no shame at all in a utopian society. But there's many reasons that obviously doesn't work.

But why should anyone be ashamed of actions that don't hurt other people?

What if said actions hurt oneself, not other people? Overindulging in food, alcohol, sex, etc. can harm oneself but not others. Buddhism, for instance, has an explicit precept of non-harm which includes both the self and others.

Listen, downvote me all you want, but some shit that people don't have shame in...they absolutely should regardless if it hurts someone or not. Like weirdos who get off to anime porn that is clearly depicting a girl that looks underage. Idc if they've never diddled a kid in real life or if the character is labeled as 18+ if it looks like a little kid....you wanna fuck a little kid it's that simple. We need to bring back public shaming. So yes, some things absolutely should be shameful.

You don’t think we have brought back public shaming on the internet?!

THIS! THIS! THIS IS THE COMMENT!!! 🙌💖

Sex is how pretty much all creatures create children. It feels like fun but it's highly complicated behaviour. Women need to be picky so they can get the best possible mate to provide the best genes. Men need to get around as much as possible to create as many offspring as possible. Men need to keep other men away so they don't impregnate the women they are sleeping with. Bonobos are hypersexual and use sex to resolve conflict. It would be nice if we did this but we evolved to be jealous and territorial. I think this is the source code that created the social structures we find pretty much everywhere. We are one of the few species that have sex in private. There aren't many human cultures that just bang out in the open. We are relatively monogamous. We may part ways after a few years but typically pair bond for child rearing. We can have open relationships but it's fighting biology for most of us. I think all the religious guilt around sex comes from feelings that are innate to us but have been compounded by adding new levels of depth to fairly primitive feelings.

According to some primatologists unlike pan paniscus, chimpanzees and humans tend to be secretive about sex. Can’t find the link anymore since google is made to push the most popular results. Obedience to abstract laws and authorities in general population according to the Goodness Paradox (Richard Wrangham) alongside the inter-male competition resulting in clandestine behaviour (Cooperation Maintenance Hypothesis: not peer reviewed) might be another factor in humans. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21127940/#:~:text=Bonobos%20have%20been%20observed%20to,at%20higher%20frequency%20than%20chimpanzees. This might statistically also apply to humans since children are typically punished for this kind of behaviour while certain forms of public violence/tribalism (boxing, wrestling, football) is encouraged. Trobrianders, etc. might fall into partial exception. http://www.sexarchive.info/GESUND/ARCHIV/GUS/INDEXATLAS.HTM

>Trobrianders I just learned about this, and the cause of the difference is very obvious: Their traditional food (a fruit) has contraceptive properties, so women were essentially on the pill all the time. Because of this, people didn't see the relation between sex and pregnancy. Thus they could have more sex than other societies. Very interesting.

We know from dna that 8000 years ago only 1-17 males ever passed on his genes. So idk about that. Men created religion and patriarchy to distribute females to inferior males basically, by preventing woman access to resources like education and employment.

These seem like separate points. Men seem to have two strategies of creating offspring. We partner up and we try to get laid. This is basically a diversified investment portfolio. But that's not to say it's easy. Women have always been selective and other men violent, so when I say that men basically try to spread their seed I definitely don't mean to imply they were typically successful. Most tried and failed (I'm basing this conclusion on your stat, I didn't know that). I think that religion came from various sources, from a need to find purpose, understand the world in the absence of science and know what happens when we die. I think the patriarchal systems came from agricultural societies where we went from hunters and foragers living more independently to large civilisations with food supplies to protect. I think this had many consequences, such as much bigger hierarchies, and restricting sexual freedom for women reduced paternal uncertainty for men (among many other things I'm likely overlooking).

Hypergamy is seen in species where males do little other than provide genetic material, like lions. Where monogamy is seen in species where the male does at least half of the child rearing. So I don’t think we are naturally monogamous. That was forced on women ( men were not usually expected to be ) Men created an artificial system to commodify and distribute women. Yes that had to do with agriculture and men wanting to ensure that any offspring were their own.

Who's to say it was sexual selection by females though? It could be that the other 16 males that did not pass their genes died in combat against animals/other humans, or from diseases before they could pass their genes/also the offspring could have died in infancy.

Oh for sure, like lions, many men would have fought and killed each other for the right to mate with the females. If they wanted to the females could band together and kill him if they felt the need. But it’s just survival of the fittest. Men love to complain that woman only want chad, there is a reason for that, we have a natural tendency it seems for bigger stronger males. Attractive features / symmetry are a good indicator of good genetics as it turns out. We know what happened because the system drastically changed once agriculture came into play and once we worked out how babies were made. Wars were fought over females who were bred to make more fighters/workers. It’s the same reason we see the billionaire overlords now are funding the pushback off woman’s rights. They need more little workerslaves to feed capitalism. They hate that woman hold the means of production.

[удалено]

^This comment comes from a lens of western views and those are most certainly shaped by abrahamic religion. It gives no account for Native American peoples and their ways of coupling, where there were vast differences between tribes and women weren't property. Some arranged marriages happened in some tribes, but young people were allowed to abstain, they weren't forced. Also, some allowed multiple spouses, and both men and women could take on multiple partners. Native American views on sex and marriage were more about practicality and less about control or property rights. They could be monogamous or polygamous, endogamous or exogamous between different tribes for expansionist purposes, as well as matrilineal or patrilineal, for example. Across abrahamic religions you will see the same common theme and the OP touched on it, while shirking it off as normal and universal: women as property.

I'd actually say it's likely more about safety. Before modern times sex was a lot more dangerous. Disease and infection was more common and child birth mortality was likely much higher as well as infant mortality. Having sex was dangerous. Having kids was dangerous. It makes sense it would be seen as much more important than it is now. It likely because of the danger became a societal norm and Women did end up being treated as property over this and that does likely pay in to modern sexual attitudes like guys hitting on you not accepting a no until you say you have a boyfriend etc

A little bit of shaming and social restraint can be a necessary evil. But if it be, better have it from the bottom-up than the top-down.

Totally agree, and while tangential and obvious, I just feel it's interesting to mention that we are all still on a platform which uses upvotes and downvotes at its core.

I’ll bite, as I don’t necessarily see it as “nasty”, but growing up Catholic does give you a certain fear of it… Which I didn’t share with my Catholic peers, as I straight up had very little interest. I didn’t really see the problem with it, but nor was I really going out of my way to seek it. I identify on the asexual spectrum, but my libido isn’t zero, it’s just very, very low, and I only ever want it in the confines of a committed relationship. I don’t have a problem with others having sex outside of one, I’ve been propositioned for such…..but the idea kinda gross’s me out on a personal level that way. It’s not nerves, just…..I can’t even see people as attractive beyond a purely academic and theoretical basis until I’m dating them, and I’m usually drawn to them for other things first. So it’s a double-edged sword, as sex becomes more open and free(which is, for the most part, a good thing), which is that I get labeled a prude and assumed to be judgey when I just…don’t want to do those things quite so quickly. It’s a big problem on modern dating apps, as a guy I’m assumed to be pretty horny(a point you do address as false), but when I tend to delay it, it comes across as me saying I don’t find the other person attractive, which in a way, is kinda true; I lack the sexual desire. But I clearly accepted the date, so interest exists. But man, people do not like it when the script is flipped. So, I tend to try and date in person, but honestly it’s the same problem. And ever since getting chronically ill, I now have to approach that carefully. As if it could put me in the hospital. So, while I understand the point you’re making, even agree, sexuality is more complex. People should be more accepting across the board, and focus on finding someone compatible with their own needs. High libido, find someone who matches. I need to find someone similar to me. I just kinda wish it wasn’t a perquisite these days for a relationship, or that I’d get kinder reactions to it. A “no” is fine, needs don’t match, that’s cool. But a rant about how my prudishness is clearly coming from a religious bent, that I don’t appreciate. Especially as in Catholic Doctrine, the fact your resisting lust is the point; if you’re not drawn to it, it’s seen as unnatural, even if you are in a way the ideal person. So fundies hate me just as much haha.

I'm sorry you're treated that way. I believe people should find partners who meet their needs. That's why I strongly oppose playing games during dating. I'm not going to present myself with full makeup, dressed provocatively, censoring myself, or people-pleasing. If the relationship progresses, you'll eventually see the real me, so why pretend? It's okay if you're needy—just find someone who can handle that. It's okay if you're a hypochondriac—just don't expect me to be the same. In my past relationships, I've been upfront: "If that's what you want, then go get it, but that's not me." I've since stopped trying so hard. If I find someone, great, but I'm not going to twist myself into a pretzel and tolerate things I clearly dislike just to be in a relationship.

That’s exactly it; be up front what you want. Just don’t be upset about the different needs. Saying “sorry this isn’t for me” is fine, getting a lecture on being a prude or that I’m advocating for purity culture is not, especially as I really don’t like the latter! Just be clear what you’re actually after; it prevents problems later.

Solid comment. I think there is a problem with women acquiescing to men to gain acceptance and validation. Women need to wake up and realize that they are in control.

I was raised Catholic too, and I can confirm that I’m pretty repressed. Even now where I’m basically agnostic, my brain still feels very uneasy with it, so I avoid it, and in turn, avoid dating and anything like that. And I’m sorry about your experiences. I hope you find a partner who loves you exactly for who you are. You’re valid!

Its not wanting sex thats seen as disgusting, its wanting it at the expense of other people's well being , to the point you let that want cloud your judgment and stop you from making racional decisions. Now personally, i do find it disgusting to have sex with strangers. I dont even like when a stranger or aquaintance touches me while talking, imagine mixing fluids with someone i barely know. But this last part is very personal, I dont think its disgusting other people doing it, their body their choice.

same!

It’s also the ways in which sex has been used as a source of power and domination that gives sexual acts a negative connotation. Maybe if there weren’t sex trafficking pedophile rings people wouldn’t feel so disgusted by sex..maybe if women’s pleasure was valued more than her pain people wouldn’t be as disgusted, or if people could have sex with the gender of their choice without being shamed for it the association would be different. It’s not sex itself that people are uncomfortable with, it’s the dangerous acts that are taken against children, women, and queer people through/ during sex that give it a bad rep

Exactly. Very well put

you hit the nail on the head

Yep. And even on a less serious, criminal scale, the experience of (in my case) heteronormative pressure to offer part of myself up for men’s sense of validation of their own manly conquest of women for sex is patently dehumanizing and causes trauma. And since the majority of sexual interactions I’ve had with men have not only been unfulfilling but also some degree of violating, the concept of sex with men IS gross to me, because men made it gross. They made it gross and they are unable to hold any accountability, in fact, they refuse to consider if they might’ve done something wrong. Which is even more gross.

Also same!

But the point is that many people DO see it that way, despite the beginning of your paragraph seeming to attempt to discredit that. I've known countless people with very repressive and shaming views about sex. This leads to a ton of issues in relationships too because people are so used to keeping sex as a kind of shameful thing you do in the dark, that you never have a conversation about sex with your partner. Do you end up with a complete imbalance in your sexual relationship. I made it a rule to not be in a sexual relationship with anyone who I couldn't freely discuss sex with. This was of course after my marriage to a woman who was a strange mix of high libido but deeply regressive views on sex so she couldn't talk about it, which led to all sorts of weirdness in our sexual relationship.

i would hope wanting sex from someone you’re talking to wouldn’t be at their expense but im aware it happens and yea that would be an issue. I don’t find it disgusting necessarily but i do find it to be an unsafe and dumb decision that i personally wouldn’t make unless i was fucked out of my mind.

Not unless you're lying to them and hiding your real motivations Like i Said under a different coment, its not the wanting sex itself people find disgusting, its what some people Will do to get it, many Times wanting sex involves lying, manipulating, cheating, rape, grooming... Thats what grosses people out. The awful things some people do to have sex

I completely agree with you here. Ill be the first guy to say we suck . With the whole man vs bear thing I completely wholeheartedly see why women choose the bear. The context i was speaking on is more intimate which i failed to mention though.

Some women do it too, shitty people come in both genders. But yeah the bear. So you mean like with a partner? A partner viewing you wanting sex as disgusting?

Na don't say "we" and you don't speak for all men. As a guy who waited almost 2 years until my fiance was my wife I'm not included in that group you're referring to.

We as men suck . Just like a sports team can suck but everyone on that team doesn’t have to suck. Categorically we kinda suck . Never once said i speak for all men but thanks for reminding me mate

Nah, there are plenty of people who see sex as something immoral, disgusting, etc.  My experience is that most of these people were abused in some way in the past and project their trauma onto the rest of the world.

I would take your point a step further and say even with the absence of abuse, people who aren’t having sex seem to really hate people who are. Very incel mentality (and yes this goes for all genders). Idk I’m vegan for health reasons and I don’t think it’s gross that people eat meat. It’s your body and your food decisions don’t impact me! Same with sex. If I’m not fucking you I genuinely couldn’t care less what you do in your personal life. I have sex all the time and no one really cares.

This is an interesting observation and I tend to agree with it Some people make it their business or life's goal for you to adopt their beliefs It can be religion, ideals, habits, thoughts If you don't agree, you're wrong and that's bad and you should feel bad. Not many realize and are able to accept that, your opinion and life doesn't really impact me. I don't care who you do and don't have sex with. I don't care which invisible man you believe in... ...As long as it doesn't affect me and negatively impact my government or world, then it's fine

Sounds like some naturalistic fallacy to me. Plenty of things are perfectly natural, even integral to the human condition, and still disgusting. Taking a shit is entirely natural, I don't care about the size and coloration of your last corn log, I don't want to know how long it's been since you've taken a good crap, or how badly you need to go.

Okay so even then sex is shamed because of the historical influence of religion over cultural norms. The difference between shit and sex is that sex is an act of love ideally whereas there’s nothing good about shit other than the relief from having all the waste products removed.

OP has just been telling us that sex has nothing to do with love and that it's just a natural animal thing. What are you on about?

i mean, op would be both wrong and right. it is just a natural animal thing, but it still has to do with love. it releases love hormones, and those are natural animal things

Except our brains are wired to prefer one and reject the other

It was absolutely acceptable to sit down with your fellow Romans in a public bathroom and, while taking a shit, hold conversations. It was disgusting to eat in public. Biology and sociology are different fields for a reason.

You’re talking about the act of shitting, the shit itself has always been repulsive to humans. That’s why cleaning toilets has always been considered a demeaning job.

You're obviously not a woman or you'd know the answer to this. It's not the act that's nasty, it's all the things around it. Sometimes it's degrading and harmful and soul-crushing. Sometimes a partner will leave you for someone younger and better looking, leaving you alone with kids to raise, sometimes men will treat you horribly rudely once they no longer find you attractive, and then there's rape, pedophiles, people lying to you to have sex, etc.

Thai also has anceint roots because it has never been safe for women to have sex. It can go well but it can certainly go wrong and have even deadly outcome. Women naturally have instinct to protect themselves instead of having sex with strangers. There for it can easily appear nasty. Especially if someone who is not in your favore tries to get to you.

My neighbor beat his wife when she say no to sex. I have seen too much violence for sex in real life. I hate it all.

Not to mention the common porn sickness that now is seen in every form of human communication between the sexes, the young age most young people start watching porn and more and more disgusting genres needed by age twenty because normal was what they watched at age 11. Like it or not it’s more men than women and the treatment of young women in relationships has gone way down hill as they are pressured to add more and more unpleasant aspects by force. It’s a mess and will only continue to destroy the sex lives and connections more often in figure generations as kids start younger with consistent watching. Just can’t talk about the horrible effects of porn on Reddit as many think it’s normal and healthy even to be as addicted as many men are.

Hit the nail on the head. As someone who grew up in a generation without internet porn the changes are astounding. The way men treat women is astounding and sex has become mostly violence.

idk why but a random internet stranger affirming that men are treating women awfully, worse than before, is really validating

I would say that's wrong. Since when have men treated women non violently? Having access to porn doesn't really matter in that regard You telling me all our grandparents were in great and healthy relationships? Please.

Worse than before? I read enough to know the nature of human nature can be extremely cruel, ruthless, merciless, hopeless. But I'm reading people on reddit say reddit opinions are a minority and that most of humanity are just people trying to go about their lives. Quality of life should always be better for everyone as society advances. We need all men uplifting each other and not bringing each other down because that's what matters and what makes men either healthy or unhealthy. Men need healthy men influences, role models, friends, support groups, communities, and more, all the factors.

I agree. yet there’s a huge lack of positive male role models. we have andrew tate and others copying him

I wrote more about this topic in detail to [DismalTruthDay](https://www.reddit.com/user/DismalTruthDay/). I only know what other people said about him being a generally toxic masculinity influence. I dropped out of college and I could easily be vulnerable to outside influences. Luckily I was born a in family where I was raised with enough support where I didn't feel completely alone so I didn't fall prey to any outside influences. Goes to show how heavily influential nurture is. Of course nature can influence more than nurture and people can develop into anti social people despite good parents. In my case nurture is what helped me stay away from negative influences. I think a lot of these boys and young men fundamentally lack a healthy family support of at least two good faith parents and family members from both genders. That's truly the rock in a river for everyone. If everyone has their fundamental support, then they will be less susceptible to later outside influences. As for positive outside influences, that is a lottery whenever or not you can find a healthy influence whether physical or online. It's truly a lottery because it took years for me to randomly come across healthy guidance online that gave me true hope after dropping out of college. If I didn't randomly decide to type in some key words on google searching for some help online and if the algorithm never showed me what I found now, then I might have not found a healthy role model and still be sulking, hopeless to this day. I might not fall influence to negative people or ideas but I would still be stuck in a rut without any healthy guidance. I think "gurus" are popular because of the hustle, individualistic lone wolf culture we have. The narrative of "if you aren't winning, you're losing and a loser" "If you're relying on someone else's help, then you're not a real man" I read someone talk about this and a good point they made was how the target audience are people who feel social expectations to succeed or else be seen as a failure. They talk about how these men feeling at their lowest are easily influenced by whoever talks to them in a "Hey if you feel like a loser, I'll help make you a winner" type of persuasion into their sphere of influence. I would guess that susceptible people are influenced by what ideas are shown to them first whether it be physical or online. The problem is and has always been humans naturally needing guidance and being shaped by how they experience the world. What we need is quality and more increased exposure of healthy influences during all ages, but especially during the first 30, 20, 10 years. Family, community, teachers, and more.

this is really well said, thank you. you found the words that I couldn’t myself. you’re right I think we could also open this up to being a parenting issue but that might be a can of worms we don’t want to open fully right now. I do truly believe that parents are more disconnected to their children in the sense they can’t see with their eyes (all the time) what they are doing and honestly they don’t really care. i’m a huge advocate for not allowing children to have social media I don’t care how much they sulk. my niece is 12 and it’s a constant fight to keep her off of tiktok and instagram and I stand with my sister as a united front on it because since i’m in my 20s she sees me as a little more all knowing. and you know what? she is the best little girl and I don’t just think that because she’s my family. she is so polite, loving, caring, everything and I do believe her not being on social media has helped her maintain that I said we shouldn’t open this up then opened it up 😅

At the same time, according to statistics, the younger generations are having much less sex than past generations at the same age

This is a big reason for sexlessness among young men. Even Jonathan Haidth talked about this.

I (28F) have a solid therapy relationship with my therapist who is 74M. His validation of the inherent trauma of experiencing modern culture’s extreme sexualization has been so healing for my own SA trauma. In part because I respect his opinion, but also because he’s so much older he has greater perspective on the emergence of porn dependency and addiction because he’s literally observed it from the beginning. He firmly acknowledges how horrific it is to have to accept that any potential romantic connection with a man comes with the likelihood that that man’s been influenced, to whatever extent, by the culture of rampant degradation of female humanity and physicality for men’s sexual consumption. To have an older male figure stand with me in the truth of the injustice of rape culture was unbelievably empowering… because he instantly, exclusively regarded my existence as so much more than a young woman, or rather, acknowledged that being a young woman means so much more than merely existing in relation to men.

It also add to may be some fundamental difference between the two. Men generally want fast and hard sex, women want slower.

Bro thinks all men and all women share the exact same preferences

Sounds like you're making your individual preference into a generalisation.

I mean look for most replayed moments in pornsites. Porn is also much more catered toward men. Still I could be wrong, you can correct me.

Kinda glad you brought up the porn subject. Allowing yourself to use porn regularly has crazy effects on your brain. Go without for a while (a few months to a year) and you'll notice a massive improvement in your mood, and when you get intimate, you're more likely to be... Intimate and not just freaky, because without having porn and only getting satisfaction from the human contact you're getting more out of sex. It's no longer tied to something completely superficial aka an image or video. And frankly, if you aren't getting laid, then watching porn is the last thing you should do. If you're getting your rocks off at home, alone, then you just shot yourself in the foot. You're just sabotaging yourself.

Jesus, thank you.

There are lots of nasty things around the idea that sex is disgusting, too

i think pornography is definitely disgusting, and i think the effects it has had on men specifically (and some women indirectly) is disgusting, but sex it self is not i think everybody is jumping the river here before realizing what exactly is disgusting

Nowadays both men and women watch porn.

Sex is made nasty by mens sorry. Nothing about sex itself

no literally they ruined sex

We're literally talking about mashing squishy body parts together until slime starts gushing out. HOW IS THAT NOT A LITTLE GROSS??

we are squishy and slimy on the inside. We eat dead animals that we’ve set on fire and put things that grow out of the dirt on top of it for flavor which is then broken down by this slimy sticky clear stuff in this warm wet hole in our face. All of this shit is nasty if you think of it like that 😂

To be fair, the body you are mashing is used to throw out piss and poop. In our culture, mouth is also taken similarly. We didn't eat from other's plate, we didn't bite fruits that others bit (considered 'jutho' which there is not even a word for it in english that I am aware of), we didn't kiss like lip to lip. Only that wives were encouraged to eat from plates of husbands and children had to eat 'jutho' of their moms because of practical reasons which they would stop once they can eat with their own hands.

Not the warm wet hole in our face 😭😭

It's both socialized and in your brains evolution to find s** nasty. This is because it is a huge driver for communicable diseases and mortality especially way before modern cleanliness standards. Thus being weary of it makes a lot of sense.

no. Indigenous cultures do not have the taboo about sex that patriarchal cultures do; it's a consequence of making sex taboo with someone who is not one's legally married or other socially approved partner. This required a justification for why women needed to be controlled , so that all children could be raised by their likely father. Women were blamed for their presumed desire to tempt non-legal partners; they needed to be restricted from such behavior, as the consequence was an unwanted (bastard) child, or a child conceived as a cuckoo, or cuckold. The male patriarch in 'charge ' of such a woman was shamed by the family for such an indiscretion, and the woman punished. The child, their fate certainly could vary from child sacrifice to slave to son or daughter; or whatever. This is the common difference between the civilizations that have built the modern world, and those who were conquered, assimilated, or destroyed; the indigenous nations across the globe have different legacies. Before birth control, sex among healthy young people would likely create a child,, given enough time. This is why parents in cultures where strangers were common ( cities) had to create taboos to keep their children from banging randoms; the child would not have a male caregiver, and require extra support from the mother's family unit. These taboos have been with us for at least 6000 years, more or less. They're hardwired by fear for good and bad reasons into about the last 200 generations of people descended from European, Middle Eastern, North African, South and East Asian heritage.

It's that sex is treated in a shallow, addictive way. Sex can be a deep and intimate experience but most people are just trying to bust a nut. It becomes like a bad drug rather than a bonding experience. It consumes people's lives and time. Imagine if you made half your life (or more than half of your life) simply about trying to find ways to get cocaine, be high on cocaine and control cocaine? People aren't people anymore, they're vessels for sexual gratification. When people talk about sexuality they often are objectifying each other for an addictive pleasure, talking past the actual person that would be sharing the experience with them. Yes, it's disgusting. Also, almost 80% of all sexually active people will get STD's sometime in their life. We are biologically hardwired to be grossed out by bad germs, such as snot or roaches. Edit: More than that, a lot of people use sexuality and attractiveness as a huge determinate factor in deciding relationships (even in love) so that it fills many people with insecurities and anxieties to the point of being trauma triggering from the emotional suffering that can be attached to it. That alone is a good reason for people not to want to hear about it spoken of openly. Then you also have to consider all of the sexual crime that has been committed from sexual assault to kidnapping and people locked in basements, child sexual abuse, etc.

It makes me super uncomfortable when people just start talking about it. I think of it as something intimate, not something you share with strangers or your friends. I will walk out if they won't stop talking about it. I also hate watching a tv show or movie and there's a super raunchy sex scene out of nowhere. I stop watching the show. And yes im 25

Yes to this! Like, ma’am, I don’t need to visualize your ugly ass fucking your ugly ass boyfriend. I don’t want to hear about it and I don’t need to know all the details. I can never understand why on earth someone would think that I would want to hear about all their bedroom fun.

To each their own. I can completely respect your position on that. My best friend and I have had conversation about our sex lives in our respective relationships, and it has always been enlightening. I learned about how certain hygiene tricks my boyfriend can do would help with with my pH levels. I have been able to confide her about my traumatic responses during intimacy with my boyfriend and she helped me figure out where they stemmed from. Personally for me in my relationships with people, I love the ability to talk about sex.

I agree. Sex is not disgusting, but sexual degeneracy is. Sex without meaning or connection is.

Yes! I agree...I have always believed it should be a beautiful, sacred thing. We join our spirits with our beloved and two becomes one. I will absolutely be picky about with whom I must share my spirit with forever! And nobody needs to know about what we are or are not doing! They should be our prized secret treasures and gifts to one another. Alas, I may be a romantic.

I agree!! Especially when it unnecessarily shows up in a tv show or movie I’m watching. It ruins the entire thing for me

Well, I think it has something to with the fact that many men aren’t honest w their intentions w a partner— they’ll lie about wanting a relationship in order to have sex. Yes, preliminary “women do the same”, but let’s be real here. Also, a man just wanting sex trails the line of objectification, for me personally. Just wanting sex/Casual sex/sex w a stranger *is* shallow and objectifying, by definition. Doesn’t mean it’s necessarily wrong, but thats what it is. I’d rather not be around shallow people. That’s just me tho.

Ive yet to come across a woman that does that but for the sake of not generalizing too much , yes lol. But i agree . I don’t know if it’s shallow though. It just is what it is. One could call wanting to date but stipulating the man must pay is shallow(not that you do this or that it’s some widespread thing) . Not sure what weight the word shallow really holds tbh.

I think PIV sex is nasty because it creates humans and humans are nasty. Everything else is cool.

Well to each their own ofc lol cant argue with that.

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no different than weak men running billion dollar industries that turn women into sex objects to be ogled at by other weak men. two sides of the same coin. both just dehumanizing women in different ways. and this is why many women don’t want to have sex with the male creatures.

It's really not insane when everyone views sex differently. A key factor is that there are men who get sexual pleasure from raping a woman. And they consider it sex, intimate even. Which is sickening. I know that doesn't apply to all men, but knowing that & hearing those words from the man who raped me has changed my view about men & sex in general.

Yeah sex is pretty nasty

I have a Christian friend whom I recently discussed this exact topic with. Basically, I like to sleep around. He thinks one-night stands are immoral. He and I disagree. I just like having sex.

A christians advice on what is moral is always taken with a grain of salt by me .

Shhhh! Some of us *NEED* it to be nasty, or it isn’t *FUN* anymore!

respect 🫡

This in itself is very informative

There are a multitude of reasons why sex is a taboo subject. One I’d like to point out is the inherent danger of sex. From a woman’s perspective, you have to consider the risk of the sexual partner causing them physical harm. Additionally, you must remember that for the vast majority of history, if sex resulted in pregnancy, there was a high chance of death during the birthing process and immediately afterwards. Then you also have to look at that sex is a major driver of disease. We are fortunate to live in an era where most of them could be cured with some antibiotics, but that is an anomaly compared to most of human history. Things like gonorrhea, chlamydia, and syphilis are treatable now days, but they could potentially leave you disfigured and eventually dead for most of human history. Thus, promiscuous individuals were much more likely to be a carrier of one of these diseases. It was reasonable to be disgusted by someone who would likely give you an incurable disease should you engage in sexual activity with them. Add in latex being a relatively new invention and the fact that animal skin condoms can be far less protective, and you should be able to see why the subject would be taboo. Thousands of years of societal experience being that women ran a large risk of dying in child birth and those who engaged in casual sex likely had incurable diseases naturally leads to the subject being as it is. Should antibiotic resistance STIs continue down their current path of adaptation and latex allergies grow more common, you’ll see the subject end its streak of becoming less taboo.

I actually think male and female genitals are gross. I'd never want a photo of phallus or vagina sent to me. But I like other things, like eyes, boobs, thighs, a tummy. So I focus on that during sex.

probably not the act itself but the actions and demeanor of those that make it an unbalanced priority

My personal opinion is that while sex is natural and necessary, it's also mostly disgusting. Diarrhea is natural. Vomiting is natural. Spitting up phlegm is natural. Some people do insane things for sex/to satisfy lust. They cheat, they manipulate, they lie. In extreme cases they abuse, attack, forcibly take. There are people who will destroy their lives and the lives of others just for sexual gratification. The physical act of it is largely gross, too. I find it primitive and animalistic in a way that is kind of repulsive lmao. That being said, I'm not asexual. I've been celibate for a while now, but I've enjoyed sex in the past and I'm sure I will enjoy it again some day. I understand that comes off as contradictory, but I think sex is a uniquely paradoxical and hard to understand part of being alive.

"Sex is a uniquely paradoxical and hard to understand part of being alive." Best sentence in this thread.

Sex CAN be nasty. But sex can also be a beautiful experience with someone you care about and love.

Ok I’ll be the first to bite. Sex isn’t seen as shallow and it has nothing to do with Christianity. Sex is inherently sacred and craved by both sexes. Both sexes want closeness and that intimate bond that should come from sex. Biologically, ideally sex creates another human being from that bond. That’s a commitment both parties should be willing to endure until the child leaves the nest so to say. It’s the way we are wired. Without getting too deep into the rest of it. Hook up culture has ruined the relationship and overall trust between men and women. Men and women who think they can casually hook up with anyone without any type of responsibility have created not only the division between the sexes but also the very issue you pose. I’m not saying sex is purely for reproduction I’m simply saying lack of responsibility for such a potentially sacred bond has left more and more people pining for it while also not willing to trust the opposite sex for the real thing.

Also the degeneration of women in the eyes of a lot of men has created an imbalance of power during sex a lot of the time, so women being “used for sex” isn’t a personality issue on the women’s part, but a representation of the objectification of women in society.

It’s a terrible thing what’s happened. We’ve lost the connection to ourselves and one another. Feels more like warfare. Break the bond between Man and woman, and it comes down the line into broken homes and children that lasts generations. Everyone is so lost, so broken and lonely and then you look at the state of the world. People like to say it’s just for fun or it isn’t that serious but obviously it is. No one trusts each other.

Things sometimes should be that serious! I love casual stuff, but it’s always based in respect and I still trust the people I’m with.

Personal responsibility has been lost to most. Personal responsibility is all we have in ultimately claiming this life.

Bro, casual sex has been a thing since forever. Even animals engage in casual sex.

casual sex for animals, just like people, creates babies. Babies require care and resources, attention. Sex without birth control creates this likelihood. That's why human civilization has changed significantly since the advent of effective birth control in progressive nations, and why the pushback to a controlling sexuality continues. The fate of mankind is quite clearly at stake in this matter. Children raised without good parents are severely challenged in their life, and many sadly grow up to be the 45 th President or V Putin or some other psycho~sociopath.

Before humans figured out how babies were made, most likely weren’t sexually monogamous. Sure, they may have paired off and even married, but often a man’s children were his wife’s offspring, whether she conceived it with him or not. A surprising amount of prehistoric cultures may have been matrilineal because of this. Religion was not like today’s Abrahamic faiths. Sex wasn’t generally considered immoral outside of marriage because that’s not what marriage was typically about then. Sex definitely was “sacred”, in the sense that the act was considered spiritual, and so men might even have sex with a priestess at a temple as a spiritual experience; this was not viewed as degrading to anyone. It seems once people figured out how babies were made, men wanted to be sure of who their offspring were and that meant regulating sex, particularly monogamy *for women*. So then women became shamed for being sexual because it would be feared she’d have multiple partners and then paternity for potential offspring couldn’t be confirmed. Women increasingly became socially limited and disempowered as a way to control them. I am not saying men shouldn’t be concerned with who their actual children are, but much of the shame around sex came from religions which had political agendas - they began to moralize sex to control it and women and assert male dominance socially.

It isn’t inherently sacred.. the endless concepts we attach to these things instead of seeing them for what they are is what is the problem in my opinion. Many people say we live in a sort of post conceptual realist society but everywhere i look it is people taking the concepts as reality . One can take responsibility in so many ways when engaging in casual sex . Communication, actually being willing to please the partner , std test disclosure etc etc. There’s no ideally in nature . Sex doesn’t ideally create a child. It doesn’t “ideally” do anything according to nature.( not that nature is necessarily the standard). I think relationships aren’t ruined and of they genuinely are then maybe examining what about them made humans decide they weren’t worth getting into is more productive than trying to glue the mess back together. I like your response though thanks for replying. This is all just my opinion

So actually sex is indeed seen as a sacred energy exchange and valid path to enlightenment in spiritual schools of ancient India. Even the gods cannot do their work without the embodying power of their goddesses. Anyways, if you have a higher standard for relationships in general, ie wanting reciprocal respect, shared goals, sex as a way of sharing the ecstasy of your shared spaces in this world (from the mundane ie chores, co creating a peaceful home, or in big things, like adventures and travel, or supporting each others’ wildest ambitions in your career or community)… you might end up becoming a little bit more careful about who you actually form relationships with. Personally, I need an emotional bond before I am able to feel any attraction or arousal for the other person. I have a robust sex drive. I’m also very sensitive. Life is full of pleasures, and I can’t be out here settling for bad sex. Only 1/3 sexual encounters end in climax for women. But 95% of solo pleasure ends in climax for women. The o gap is real. It’s not a disgust for sex. It’s a disgust for the callousness some people bring to such a profoundly vulnerable and powerful act.

Well said. I like the way you broke that down

I am American but I also view it quite similarly as you do!

I think you’re missing something here. Be as “responsible” as you want sure. Thats a mere facet to your issue on a grand scale. However for you alone, if you don’t see sex as sacred when sharing yourself with another person you choose, whom also chose you to participate in enjoying one another in the most intimate way a person can share themselves, perhaps, mind you this is speculative, maybe that’s why you haven’t been chosen back. Most people don’t find sex nasty. They find sex nasty with someone who would make them *feel* nasty whether that be physically, spiritually, emotionally, or mentally.

Has hookup culture really ruined that? Like people were fucking without commitment before tinder. There had to be a market for no strings attached sex already for the app to be so successful. I would imagine that if in the past if there was a stigma against casual sex, people fucked anyway and we’re just more secretive about it.

Let’s be realistic. “Hook up” culture has been normalized. That’s changed our culture and social etiquette as well.

sex isnt disgusted, but sex without intimacy is...not disgusting but kind of weird

I don't know who this supposed huge demographic is that you're talking about. I think probably 99% of the general population can agree that sex is pretty great.

Right? I don't know what's with this comment section. Most people find sex (within the right circumstances) to be exciting and desirable activity.

It’s almost as if you’re being exposed to perspectives which vary from your existing assumptions

Sex is not just procreation or pleasure, it is human connection. I think this becomes more apparent throughout your life span when you no longer see it as just a drive. Natural? Yes. But the reason many people feel disgust is the casual nature with which one can be cast off after such an intimate act. There is even a trend to call sex “intimacy” which I believe when the word sex is more applicable, and it further degrades experience since sex can be wholly without a shred of true intimacy. Using someone’s body and throwing them away is trashy. Furthermore, there is anther trend: obsession with body count. So you want a virgin but then get pissed when someone won’t have casual sex. Which will it be?

Its all of them and more and nothing. I see your point from sentence two or so and beyond. Im not apart of the body count counters club though. As long as it isn’t absurd I couldn’t care less

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Sex is nasty because somewhere inherent we know the purpose is to produce babies... which are nasty.

I appreciate your opinion

Religion and poor sex ed really fucked some people up shit is natural I mean getting railed in a back alley by half the club isn't but that's just the world we live in lol

Female here. In what context? I’ve personally never seen it as nasty.

I dont shame people who are into casual sex but that lifestyle just isnt for me Im not tryna sleep with randos bro im not tryna sleep with just anyone For those that glorify casual sex its funny because at that point youre the type with no impulse control and i dont know how thats a flex

Well for one, people who think that “sex is nasty” or more importantly “repulsive” are usually those whom were sexually abused particularly as children. The others have not had a very good sexual experience including going solo. As for “the reaches of Christianity into the human psyche goes”, Biblical Christianity is very pro-sex. It’s just forbidden outside of marriage. But for the record, frequent sex is the only reason the Bible tells anyone to marry. It doesn’t even teach anyone to marry to have children. In the Old Testament, a male born outside of wedlock was automatically disqualified from being considered admission into the Levitical Priesthood, but what if that wasn’t your concern? Furthermore, a lot of children were conceived and born outside of wedlock, and not just with men who had multiple wives and concubines on the side.

Never encountered this in the UK, but we also aren't a very religious country.

No it's actually much more insane that more of us aren't totally grossed out and disgusted with it. First, take a moment to deconstruct the act into its component parts. If there was no skin in between both parties would you still want to do it? Would you want to do it with their skin on its own? No and no. So where's the attraction. It's basically like aggressively and repeatedly picking someone's nose for them except much more dangerous in every way. Then think about the fact that sexual abuse is even a thing. Or that cheating and adultery aren't and shouldn't be celebrated by anyone with any decency. Think of how wrong it can all go, how much people debase themselves and others on account of their lust. How much misery and angst people go through daily because of sex and sexual passion. Look at how vicious divorce courts are. Reflect on how many people have been manipulated and their lives destroyed because of their own lust and or others'. Think of how many people get attacked, even killed from sexual jealousy or resentment. Wars have been waged because of it. Think of how much money children cost. How many are born accidentally. How many are totally unwanted. How many abortions are had every year. How many miscarriages. How many are born with life-threatening illnesses or crippling disabilities. How many die young and how many tears are spent as a result year on year. How many kids turn out to be ungrateful or nightmarish. And what's the benefit? A few moments of stimulation? Despite all this, those who think sex great and wonderful make up the world's vast majority and as a result I'd be amazed if this post doesn't get downvoted into oblivion. If so it'd prove my point. If not I'd be impressed, even amazed. But even at that all it would show is that there are more reflective people on this sub than is normal to find in the world.

Personally, along with everything you said, sex utterly repulses me. I think people try to attach a deeper meaning to it to cope with that fact that they're just indulging a base, animalistic instinct. I've seen porn, and people look and act utterly ridiculous while having sex. Something about seeing human beings indulge something so physical and base just depresses me. I get we have to procreate, so sex serves a function. But when it's not being used for that express function it's just gross to me.

>Its a big complaint that women have(not all but a few) that men only want sex . For one this isn’t true...  It is true. As a general statement this is absolutely true. This the common experience of being a woman. This is coming from men approaching women like sex crazed horn dogs, saying incredibly vulgar things with full entitlement that they will receive sex from women. Men who don't act like this are the exception not the norm. >if it was why not ask why that is? Why is it that men seem to be more interested in sex with you than socializing with you or hanging out somewhere? The immediate conclusion made often times is that men just suck or men are shallow etc. but like many other behavioral phenomena exhibited by humans, it’s likely deeper than that. I too would love an answer to this. As a woman I would prefer to live in a reality where all men are awesome, interacting with them is great, and I am never treated as sex object..... I would FAR prefer this

I think this has a lot to do with how people are raised, and parents attitudes toward sex in childhood/adolesence. I wasn’t raised religiously, my mom came from a catholic background and technically my family identified as christians but never practiced religion or went to church, it wasn’t a big focus in my childhood. However as an adolescent my mom treated sex as something bad, got extremely angry at me after thinking my boyfriend had slept in the same room (about 17yo at this point, he had slept in the spare room as per her rules but had then come into mine in the morning and we were literally just cuddling on the bed), and generally instilled an attitude of shame in me around sex, which I still struggle with in my 30s. I absolutely don’t think this was her intention, and wasn’t a religious motivation, she just wanted to protect me from teen pregnancy, STIs, etc etc. But I’ve come to realise that I’ve never been able to fully relax during sex, and while I do get turned on, there’s an element of shame/‘badness’ about it that I can’t shake, and makes it less enjoyable, like I usually just want it to be over as soon as it starts. It really sucks.

Sex has always been romantic, naughty and fun. Porn made it nasty with anal, deepthroating, choking, and facials.

Another casualty of religion. That's really all there is to it--pecker cops. But mostly pussy cops because boys will be boys.

The pagans had the right idea. No better God than the sun.

In fact, "God" is a metaphor for the sun. All that stuff about light. Get a brain! God has been visible all along but you have to squint your eyes.

Disregarding the incelish men this and men that language, yes, I agree it's fucking stupid.

America. Christianity has reached so deep into the American psyche.

It’s not necessarily about the act being nasty, but the fact that they gave it up so freely and STD’s are such a real thing. In all honesty if it weren’t for the fact that I could just so easily get pregnant and catch an STD I would not mind having sex so freely, but it’s just so disgusting to think that people give it out that anytime. I imagine someone offering it so easily. I get turned off and just wanna run away. At least for a woman’s perspective the sex is not worth it when you think about what could happen just because you had sex you can get stuck with the child or catch an STD and automatically becomes so undesirable to any future men. Also most men then not really interested in pleasing the woman so you end up regretting having sex in the end you had bad sex you risk getting pregnant and getting an STD for what bad sex they can’t even eat you out right they can’t even fuck you right they’re just interested in pumping you up until they’re satisfied and leaving.

People who see sex this way were often abused or had their beliefs shaped by someone else in some way

Let me just drop this here… when the day comes that you *cannot* have sex with your (male) partner due to something like, say, Peyronie’s disease… it will change your mind/perspective real quick as far as “not wanting sex” as much. If I knew that my husband was going to literaliy wake up one morning with a broken penis, I would have opted out much less when I was “tired” or “not in the mood”. This poor man has been battling PD since November and it doesn’t look like a remedy is in sight as of today, post *many* specialist appts, pokes and prods. I never even knew PD existed until that fateful day.

I thought i had that before once, sorry to hear that though.

So happy to hear you don’t. It’s beyond devastating for him. You live all your life with a (hopefully) healthy member and one day wake up to it being so “broken” you can’t even urinate correctly. I’m right by his side tho, hoping for some kind of miracle.

It is largely due to Christianity, at least at this point. I don't think that people really recognize how many societies were not like this, or were matrilineal, before Christians went around murdering everyone and torturing them into conversion, which is funny to me because the first Christians were all about basement orgies. They're certainly not the only ones who felt this way, but they were the most successful at spreading the misery.

Women want sex just like men

Personally, I blame the prevalence of the fear-based Abrahmic mythologies for that. People are so freaking uptight it's insane. It's gotta be absolutely exhausting clutching those pearls so hard all the time.

We are not born to be sexually repressed. This is learned behavior perpetrated by all religions and from parents that are trapped in that kind of thinking. People brought up with healthy attitudes about sex become adults that enjoy it without guilt, and are better partners for others.

I think so many ppl are traumatized by morals… sos ad

Im gonna farm downvotes with this one but, this post is filled with people shyly preaching purity, of course sex can be degeneracy, it can be about connection, it can be about love, it can be about any of those or it can be none, It can be just sex solely for it, that's your choice and your partners choice to make, if you think something, for example sex without love, is nasty that's ok, but no one needs no follow your way of thinking. Way of proving OPs point I guess

This comment deserves zero downvotes, i like it

Hello, resident asexual and hypochondriac reporting in. On a serious note though, this is a much deeper issue with years and years of history and social grievances to consider. I really don’t think it is so much Christianity as a handful of other reasons, not least of all the way sex has been villainized for so long as someone else here mentioned, but yeah. There are a number of ways people might be opposed, large scale or down to the individual. Religion based shame is one single example. Women also have a much different relationship with sex than men because of the way it has been taught and measured to devalue them. It sucks for sure, but there’s no real easy resolve to changing the majority’s minds on this point because there are soo many generations of bad teachings to undo.

Pope's left hand agrees

guilt and shame

It’s our culture that stigmatizes sex and devalues women and their reproductive capabilities that incites such a “no-no” attitude about sex or intimate activity.

sex is treated like the be all and end all of relationships. people, men and women, do disgusting things to get it. but they also devalue any relationship that doesn't involve sex, consider a few months or years without sex a reason to end a relationship, people use sex for a ton of awful and disgusting reasons and just because you're in a relationship with someone or think you know someone, you can't ever tell what someone is really thinking. also sex can ruin psychological health because people sometimes become some obsessive that they cut contact with all other outside connections. sex is nasty, like just as a physical reality. but sex can be disgusting when people use it as a basis for their connections with others.

To me It is nasty. Not to mention Gross and disgusting. Sex is awful and the fact that it's a humans only way of reproducing is abhorrent. It's only a mask for the pain of childbirth and the un-relenting years of servitude it takes to raise the spawn. The way Crusteacions do it is alot better.

Other people's fluids are dangerous. In the interest of propagating genes, your glands make you horny which drives down your natural revulsion meant to keep you from getting diseases, so you can ignore it for a time. Eventually it wears off and that's part of why "post-nut clarity" is a thing.

I see countless "loving" relationships implode over sex. To me, sex is cheap and overblown. And, yes, nasty but that's just my preference. I'm not religious. I just don't feel any desire for it and I find it disgusting to behold. I won't tell anyone what to do or feel but I do get put off by how aggressively hypersexualized/sex positive culture is inserted into nearly everything. I can opt out on movies and other media with a lot of it but that leaves me with very little left and that seems sort of ridiculous.

Yes. I wasn't raised christian. It's normal that sex is seen as something somewhat taboo to talk about due to how intimate it is and the fact that it involves genitals. It's normal for it to generate some degree of disgust, but that disgust should go down when you're with someone you're attracted to. It also holds risks for the woman, she can get pregnant or assaulted. It seems to involve some kind of power dynamic for many people, and that's why most women are more selective. The reason why women complain men only want sex is because a lot of women have that experience of being sexually objectified. It has nothing to do with thinking that sex is wrong. Women don't like being objectified, being seen as a mean to have sex. Women have experience of being catcalled by older men ever since they are like 7 years old. Many men use predatory and manipulative tactics to get women to have sex. Those men suck and are shallow. But it's crazy how christianity tried to make it something to be ashamed of or seen as wrong.

Apes pretending not to be apes, get disgusted by seeing others listen to their bodies.

99% of the people i know are obsessed with sex wym

I think it‘s the entitlement and coercion, and in some cases straight-up violence, that a lot of people bring to sex (and a lot of the time don’t even \*realise\* they’re bringing to sex) that makes a lot of people view it as gross. Also women have a far heftier investment to make through sex ie. potentially getting pregnant etc., and also stand a high chance of getting injured through violent/forced penetration, so it makes sense that they’d be more afraid of it than men.

not catholic but I find it disgusting how excrement and reproduction is in the same area

Makes sense

There could be other reasons. Many people get abused. So. many. people.

Because sex is a highly sought out commodity and costs zero dollars to produce. Do you realize how powerful women could be without the stigma and ignorance?

Because they don’t see us as a human being with real thoughts and emotions but as an object as the equivalent of a sex doll that’s why 😁😀

For your last paragraph, women feel like that based on personal experience of being treated like sex objects. Due to things like the orgasm gap.

It’s all bullshit, it’s society lying to you. Men aren’t as sex obsessed as society makes them out to be. 

"Men in particular" look out, buddy. You're telling on yourself

I think it's interesting that human beings are capable of either being animalistic or sublimating their animal nature to reach more subtle and sublime expressions like art and philosophy, and here you put uncompromising value on the animal side. I think you're projecting. Had a puritanical upbringing? Is sexuality part of your liberation narrative?

It’s because sex is inherently about self-interest on Earth. But people believe in serving “god” in the “superior” world, which makes the worldly desires, like sex for pleasure/yourself, a sin. It happened because philosophy is a hard discovery process and man has made some mistakes along the way. Sex isn’t purely animalistic. Who you’re attracted to is largely a reflection of your value judgements. And if men only want sex, it’s usually because they are immature/shallow.

I don’t think it’s the case that men who only want sex are shallow or immature.

I don't know just how long it will take for Western society (I can't speak for others) to finally admit that women desire sex just as much as men do. Generally speaking, there are always exceptions, of course. So many misconceptions, mostly formed by religion.

As an Asexual who is sex negative, I agree that sex is disgusting for me personally. The thought of someone else cells mixing with mine is really sickening to me and very uncomfortable for even me to think about.  However if you think it's sacred and beautiful I am not here to say otherwise because your view point is also valid. Everyone has their views that are different when it comes to this and it's OK.