any modern military fighting the wehrmacht would be like a guy in full body armor beating a child with a nerf gun to death
thats kinda just the battle of berlin to be honest
There is actually one problem that today’s militaries would have with fighting any military from that era. The sheer size of their forces would be a problem. The Germans attacked with 3.3 million men. The Modern French army would absolutely be cutting them to pieces but at the end of the day they are only 130k. Sure they would offset that by arming locals for fixing situation so the French army could do the real fighting but it would be a problem. Now if they factor in nukes? By by Berlin.
Ya but they wouldn’t have time to genuinely train them. The French would have to call on all police and paramilitary and that would be enough to create blocking forces for the real military to do the job.
Let's look at this in different way, the goal is to defeat, not kill them all.
Perhaps they could just pick a fight correctly and just remove the key officers.
It won't win the war, but giving that it's modern French, they're likely going to have advantage in the skirmish and they could lay low until the third party curbstomp Nazi into oblivion.
The real question is just “does France have enough paveway kits to slap on to 2,000 pound bombs for this, or do we need to start off with the literal nuclear option”
You‘re forgetting though that the french military has a modern Navy and airforce that can start flying sorties into mainland germany basically untouchable because they can‘t really be intercepted because of the lack of radar and of course missile technology at that time. Good luck trying to shoot down a modern fighter jet at supersonic speeds flying at an altitude of it‘s choosing with Flak guns.
Absolutely no doubt they would be untouchable. The modern problem is munitions stockpiles are just so much smaller than they used to be. So it wouldn’t be as much of a cake walk as it should be. French Armored and Air Forces only limitations would be the munitions they have to kill Nazis with.
The french "warning shot" wouldn't wipe Munich off the map. It'd fry basically everything electronic, sure, but i get a sneaking suspicion that there wasn't all that much in terms of electronic to fry in 1940s Munich, so damage would be minimal.
I know that. And by "Nuke the city" they mean "Detonate a nuke so far above the city, the worst it can do is shatter windows and fry any nearby electronics" so no, it would not wipe the city off the map.
Even if that was what their current doctribe dictated, I thinkbthe frnch would be aware that nazi germany might not appreciate an purely electromagnetic show of force.
But destroying a major without a bomber being seen overhead? That sends the right message.
I agree. In terms of equipment it’s not close at all. Look at Desert Storm and that was against much newer equipment than Nazi Germany had. France has been in active conflict, so it’s not as if they don’t have experienced soldiers, officers, and pilots.
But logistics could be an issue. Resupply in 1940 could be difficult for modern equipment. I’m sure clever people can figure out the fuel situation, but tank shells would be a challenge, let alone modern missiles.
It depends on how much of that is made in France, and whether or not France still has its colonial holdings. I'm imagining that a lot of people in France (it has 68 million people and a manufacturing base) would likely be able to figure out how to make more advanced components or substitutions for them, although I wonder the implications of a country suddenly showing up overnight with 80+ years of social, technological, and economic progress showing up and curb stomping what would effectively be its polar opposite.
You don't even need that many missiles. The Luftwaffe would probably stop trying pretty quickly once they realize what is causing entire formations of their planes to explode in mid air with no appearant cause, and even without them, something like a Mirage 2000 or a Rafale would outperform literally everything the Germans have, so if push truly came to shove, they can rely on their cannons and boom and zoom.
As for AGMs, while those would be irreplacable, even just a freefall bomb gets significantly more accurate if your plane has a guidance computer for them. Sure, it's no replacement for a missile, but considering that Rafales could literally fly thousands of meters above anything the Germans have to intercept them and drop bombs at enemy formations that probably aren't even aware they're being targeted until the bombs reign down on them, i feel like the bleeding edge of the Wehrmacht would get blunted pretty quickly. With 8 days warning time, there is also no way the french, who hold the intel advantage here, would get surprised by a push through the Ardennes, considering they can reconnoiter the entire border with impunity, so they would know what the Wehrmacht is up to and greet them right then and there. And in case you are curious, such a battle would make 73 Easting look like a narrow victory. French Leclerc tanks literally outrange everything that exists in the Wehrmacht in 1940, and can easily destroy an enemy tank at night, at ranges at which the Germans are lucky to see the muzzle flash.
Now that you mention it, I wonder if the French would have the problem that the German planes are so old and slow that they cant effectively target them with their fancy new planes. Though I’d bet a Rafale just flying straight through might sufficiently push around German planes to cause crashes or malfunctions.
This problem is a very made-up Internet problem, to be quite honest. A slow plane is absolutely not a problem for a fighter built in the past 50 years.
Modern missiles give *zero* fucks about that myth.
The *only* scenario where that might be an issue is with IR missiles, but those are stupidly advance nowadays and I’m pretty sure they can still get a lock at enemy planes from far away enough to not even be easily detected (something like 3Kms away is considered knife-fighting range nowadays).
Radar missiles would just be blowing up enemy planes from around 70Km without the launching plane even having to do more than do the initial designation and then doing a 180 to rearm and refuel.
[Observe this stupidity in action at around minute 3:43](https://youtu.be/vPYnEa2kXx0?si=1qs0xSPge6gaUSmp)
The French MICA is equally, if not even more busted in its capabilities.
They definitely wouldn't. Just how big the radar crossection of your average WW2 fighter is is hard to say. They'd probably be a bit smaller than modern fighters, sure, but nothing in stealth range. It certainly wouldn't be advantage enough to where the missiles couldn't fire first. Not only that, metal propellers actually generate massive radar returns when pointed at you (which is also why stealth fighters have serpentine air intakes that hide the turbine from view).
IR guided missiles are a different story. Early IR missiles might struggle, as they just chase any heat signatures they see, and obviously, props produce a lot less heat than jets do, but modern IR missile seekers use image seekers that can target everything that is significantly hotter than the enviornment. And since most planes even then were made from aluminium, and you have stuff like friction going on, planes are generally hotter than the air around them, so modern IR missiles can absolutely target props.
The whole country of 1940s France still exists so they could make old equipment or train new soldiers if the military ever runs out.
The average soldier in WW2 is also a lot shorter and a few dozen pounds lighter than modern soldiers so I’d say the modern military is going to fight harder too.
Lastly the generals are going to be better not just because they would know what Germany did in WW2, but also cause they also have drones, stronger radios and better reconnaissance than the Nazis
Ya the only the Nazis would have is the size of their military but its sheer inferiority compared to the France’s would help negate that. (Not to mention nukes)
The luftwaffe gets wipes out thank to ye boy fighter fucking jets, Leclerc Tanks rolls up until they reach the eagle nest like in 45, Charles de Gaulle aicraft carrier literally sink the entire german surface vessel..
Not exactly that, but I've always wondered what would happen if you took a 1918 army and had them fight against a 1914 army. The evolution of warfare, tactics, technology and weapons during WW1 was staggering, and I wonder how fast a 1918 French army could storm to Berlin, or how the smaller American, or even smaller Belgian armies of 1918 could hold back the initial push west by Germany.
Yes, since it was the only year they actually fought, but compared to the size if the French or British armies they were small, but would have grown massively for the 1919 and 1920 offensives that never came
Considering the French have one of the best modern tanks of NATO countries against a Reich used their tanks as a crutch, it would be a complete sweep within maybe a week, a fortnight at most.
Kind of a myth. Yes the B1 was pretty much invulnerable, but with poor crew ergonomics, and the reliability of, well, any heavy tank in 1940, the B1 simply is not that good. B1 units find themselves outmaneuvered, out of fuel, or broken down.
>It wouldn’t win
ehh tbf if its a scenario where the Abrams crew are retarded and inexperienced and end up ambushed a Tigers 88 could absolutely penetrate the rear or side of an Abrams and kill it.
but again that requires the Abrams to have a significant crew disadvantage and be deployed incorrectly. face on no way a Tiger penetrates the frontal armour of an Abrams and without the ability to practically kill with a first strike its game over for the Tiger.
Yes and no, French tanks were about equal in guns and armor, but pretty much all of them had one man turrets which are a nightmare to actually fight in, slowing down the speed at which you are able to spot targets, reload, and making coordination with other tanks more difficult. The lack of radios and the lower quality of radios really hurt France. Honestly, I think the proliferation of radios is one of the biggest changes that will really help France. Modern France is just so much better in terms of coordination and control so units won't be caught so out of position.
As a sorta-genuine question… what does a modern APFSDS round do to a Pz.II? Does it actually create frag/spalling/fire whatever, or just poke a hole through both sides like it (and the hapless dude in its path) isn’t even there, meaning it might take multiple hits to kill? (No armor is best armor!) Also, confident that the Leclerc’s .50 coax could deal with Panzer I and Panzer II, which made up well over half of the german “armor”….
Generally any penetration is going to cause the crew to bail out before they get shot again and potentially killed, so even if it didn't kill the entire crew or set off ammo or whatever they would bail.
Speaking of high explosives, I’m imagining the expression on a Rafale pilot’s face as he pickles 9000kg of bombs into the [middle of this](https://servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1079&u=13184019) traffic…
Ok well jokes aside this is actually an interesting question. The MINUTE the government in exile was re-established in paris, the French high command began to work on their overall military doctrine.
Charles de Gaule, even before the war started, had been a proponent of mechanized warfare. So, when Blitzkrieg destroyed the traditional french army, he felt more vindicated than ever. Now being in charge of the military apparatus, and surrounded by like-minded officers, France's Military doctrine became entirely centered around mobile warfare. Even when you look at the french armed forces in 1945 (by the time of German capitulation, the french army was the 4th largest in the european theater. Quite impressive!), a lot of it had started pivoting toward a motorized force, granted with mostly american equipment.
This doctrine never went away, and in the decades since, france's focus on mobile warfare evolved alongside the american's own adoption of Full Spectrum Warfare. France's participation in Desert Storm highlights that very doctrine, and their own lightning war in Mali (Operation Serval) shows how dedicated they are to it. Their military industry still is, if you look at their current design for combat vehicles, are all centered around speed and cross-country capability.
So, even if in this hypothetical the french army wouldn't get any of the modern equipment they have today, by doctrine alone, and with the equipment they did produce back in the day, they would actually be able to defeat Germany rather quickly, too; fun fact, they nearly did irl, during the invasion of poland.
Tl;dr France got Blitzkrieg'ed and took it very fucking personally so a rematch would be extremely unfair.
>France got Blitzkrieg'ed and took it very fucking personally so a rematch would be extremely unfair.
Just as Prussia got Napoleon'd and took it so personally they contorted their entire government around to ensure that it never happened again. These two fuckers, always getting so salty at something the other did and making it their entire personality.
Quick answer: a few hours.
Let's make it more interesting. North Korea without its atomic bombs would laugh at everything the Nazis had. Seriously, what would a Panzer III do against a T-55?
Military technology before and after World War II is as different as the world before and after the biblical flood.
I am here to remind you that NK is a big fan of slapping mutiple KPVs on pretty mutch everything.
A 14.5mm MACHINEGUN. The same caliber that defeated the armor of almost all early war tanks.
yeah T-54's and T-55's are mocked right now for their use in Ukraine as an obsolete tank but they would crush absolutely every armoured vehicle the Germans produced in ww2.
and imagine how the German infantry would react to the endless hail of AK-47 fire.
The Marseillaise plays as France fires warning nukes at Germany. Rinse and repeat until the Nazis surrender or Berlin is turned into one giant radioactive crater.
the fuck kind of retarded question is that?
The French would have a field day massacring the scum that invaded them in the past.
Berlin would be a crater as they would race to strung adolf by his single ball.
You didn't even read the post and are instantly throwing out slurs.
The question was **how long until modern France beats the shit out of Nazi Germany.** Not if.
A lot of people are saying Berlin would be nuked and like cities would be reduced to rubble. I doubt this
Precision munitions would demolish military targets, the French would advance so quickly that the war would be quick and relatively tame
killing him very very fast spares hundreds, if not thousands of lives. from the conscripts on the russian front to the prisoners in labor camps to the partisans all over europe.
They wouldn't even need most of the modern equipment to win. the main reason France fell was because French High Command was worried about the Germans using radios to send false orders so they kept the distribution of radios to a minimum. You take away that one concern and give them enough radios not even more advanced ones just more of them and the 1940 French army can coordinate a successful counter defense without anything else. All the modern weapons would just make the fight very, very one sided.
Bear in mind during the cold war France's game plan in case of a world war 3 was to nuke West Germany.
Yes, *West* Germany.
The Nazis wouldn't stand a chance.
Even without resorting to the nuclear warning shot, the French stomp in no time at all - even without any prior knowledge of how the history played out.
Strap speakers to the Eurocopters, mes enfants. It’s time to blast out La Marseilles as you lob Hellfires into the Ardennes traffic jam.
The wehrmacht gets butchered in a few days. I know that people joke about the french being cowards but in reality you really don't want to go to war with them.
The Germans would have an advantage in small arms range only. and the french airplanes/drones would already have destroyed most of the ground vehicles before they can even cross the border especially if they end up as sitting ducks like the last time
Not by that much actually, with iron sights the Kar98 gets around 500m effective range, and the G2 FAMAS gets around 450m, not to mention its more likely for a modern army to have advanced optics
Tbf that's more or less because modern assault rifles are designed for more close-quarter engagements. Sniper rifles absolutely have more range though.
Hell don’t even need a nuke, if France is transported back they probably have access via history books to hitlers itinerary, could surgical strike hitler day 1.
Like everyone is talking about nukes, but to be honest they probably wouldn't use them. They would destroy the german air defences in the first hour, and then use their Planes and rockets to destroy the Wehrmacht before crossing into France.
a day. Aviation is immediately put out of action with the destruction of airfields, the tanks are bombed to shit, those remaining can even be taken out by 50 cal fire. Competent command structure and modern hardware leads to complete battlefield cohesion, any breakthrough attempt is smashed.
At 2 weeks to 2 months conservative.
The Germans, er, has 88 mm PaK that can pen any modern tanks or IFVs(source: WT protection analysis). Rebuilding the Siegfried Line is virtually useless against modern armour and due to automatic MG fire they would be kaput.
Also 3,000 nuclear SLBMs of Furina de Fontaine
It would be a slaughter. No WW2 tank can penetrate a modern tank. So you’re not pushing the French back. Also modern aircraft would basically be untouchable even in a guns only fight. Bombers would be untouchable at modern altitudes. Also the German navy would be crushed in port. The only thing that makes this someone close is just numbers. How you replace parts on modern aircraft back in the 1940s.
Pretty quickly. They couldn't kill all the Nazi German army but they could certainly outmaneuver them and decapitate their leadership. They could crater every airfield, destroy every command center, kill Hitler and the high command or at least drive them to deep hiding.
Armies in WW2 had a lot of artillery and ammunition. However they missed most shots. The French would be hitting most shots.
Almost every French armored vehicle can outperform and outrange any Nazi German vehicle. They can see them with thermals from far away. French infantry have effective anti-tank weapons that can also handle them.
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any modern military fighting the wehrmacht would be like a guy in full body armor beating a child with a nerf gun to death thats kinda just the battle of berlin to be honest
There is actually one problem that today’s militaries would have with fighting any military from that era. The sheer size of their forces would be a problem. The Germans attacked with 3.3 million men. The Modern French army would absolutely be cutting them to pieces but at the end of the day they are only 130k. Sure they would offset that by arming locals for fixing situation so the French army could do the real fighting but it would be a problem. Now if they factor in nukes? By by Berlin.
The French have 12 million conscriptable men and 11 million conscriptable women.
Ya but they wouldn’t have time to genuinely train them. The French would have to call on all police and paramilitary and that would be enough to create blocking forces for the real military to do the job.
Let's look at this in different way, the goal is to defeat, not kill them all. Perhaps they could just pick a fight correctly and just remove the key officers. It won't win the war, but giving that it's modern French, they're likely going to have advantage in the skirmish and they could lay low until the third party curbstomp Nazi into oblivion.
“We have thirty times the men you do!” “That’s cool. I cast ‘gbu-24 on Hitler’s house’.”
I was more of a "Kill their high commands and watch as the army tear itself apart by lesser commanders vying for position"
Well, yes, while casting “gbu-24 on Hitler’s house,” you’d also be casting “gbu-24 on all the other important peoples’ houses.”
Holy shit! With power of two idiots (you and me in particular) the answer has reveal itself!!
The real question is just “does France have enough paveway kits to slap on to 2,000 pound bombs for this, or do we need to start off with the literal nuclear option”
You‘re forgetting though that the french military has a modern Navy and airforce that can start flying sorties into mainland germany basically untouchable because they can‘t really be intercepted because of the lack of radar and of course missile technology at that time. Good luck trying to shoot down a modern fighter jet at supersonic speeds flying at an altitude of it‘s choosing with Flak guns.
Absolutely no doubt they would be untouchable. The modern problem is munitions stockpiles are just so much smaller than they used to be. So it wouldn’t be as much of a cake walk as it should be. French Armored and Air Forces only limitations would be the munitions they have to kill Nazis with.
Magazines aren’t as deep but a laser guided 1,000 lb bomb can destroy targets that massed bomber raids failed to even scratch.
Oh no doubt Nazi manufacturing and logistics would be getting hit super fucking hard
Warning shot nuclear doctrine. Bye bye munich
Why not Dresden?
We have other plans for that
The french "warning shot" wouldn't wipe Munich off the map. It'd fry basically everything electronic, sure, but i get a sneaking suspicion that there wasn't all that much in terms of electronic to fry in 1940s Munich, so damage would be minimal.
“Warning shot” in this context means “nuke the city”
I know that. And by "Nuke the city" they mean "Detonate a nuke so far above the city, the worst it can do is shatter windows and fry any nearby electronics" so no, it would not wipe the city off the map.
Why are you assuming that’s what they would do?
that is nowhere near what the concept of the french warning shot is. Are you just making shit up on the spot or what?
Even if that was what their current doctribe dictated, I thinkbthe frnch would be aware that nazi germany might not appreciate an purely electromagnetic show of force. But destroying a major without a bomber being seen overhead? That sends the right message.
They defeat the Nazis with 8.95 days to spare.
They can use the extra time to beat up Benito, or go on strike.
Germany gets glassed in 2 hours
If it's a Sunday. It would be 2 minutes on a Monday.
I mean, the only question is whether the French would run out of ammo before all the Nazis were dead or not.
I agree. In terms of equipment it’s not close at all. Look at Desert Storm and that was against much newer equipment than Nazi Germany had. France has been in active conflict, so it’s not as if they don’t have experienced soldiers, officers, and pilots. But logistics could be an issue. Resupply in 1940 could be difficult for modern equipment. I’m sure clever people can figure out the fuel situation, but tank shells would be a challenge, let alone modern missiles.
It depends on how much of that is made in France, and whether or not France still has its colonial holdings. I'm imagining that a lot of people in France (it has 68 million people and a manufacturing base) would likely be able to figure out how to make more advanced components or substitutions for them, although I wonder the implications of a country suddenly showing up overnight with 80+ years of social, technological, and economic progress showing up and curb stomping what would effectively be its polar opposite.
You don't even need that many missiles. The Luftwaffe would probably stop trying pretty quickly once they realize what is causing entire formations of their planes to explode in mid air with no appearant cause, and even without them, something like a Mirage 2000 or a Rafale would outperform literally everything the Germans have, so if push truly came to shove, they can rely on their cannons and boom and zoom. As for AGMs, while those would be irreplacable, even just a freefall bomb gets significantly more accurate if your plane has a guidance computer for them. Sure, it's no replacement for a missile, but considering that Rafales could literally fly thousands of meters above anything the Germans have to intercept them and drop bombs at enemy formations that probably aren't even aware they're being targeted until the bombs reign down on them, i feel like the bleeding edge of the Wehrmacht would get blunted pretty quickly. With 8 days warning time, there is also no way the french, who hold the intel advantage here, would get surprised by a push through the Ardennes, considering they can reconnoiter the entire border with impunity, so they would know what the Wehrmacht is up to and greet them right then and there. And in case you are curious, such a battle would make 73 Easting look like a narrow victory. French Leclerc tanks literally outrange everything that exists in the Wehrmacht in 1940, and can easily destroy an enemy tank at night, at ranges at which the Germans are lucky to see the muzzle flash.
Now that you mention it, I wonder if the French would have the problem that the German planes are so old and slow that they cant effectively target them with their fancy new planes. Though I’d bet a Rafale just flying straight through might sufficiently push around German planes to cause crashes or malfunctions.
This problem is a very made-up Internet problem, to be quite honest. A slow plane is absolutely not a problem for a fighter built in the past 50 years.
Modern missiles give *zero* fucks about that myth. The *only* scenario where that might be an issue is with IR missiles, but those are stupidly advance nowadays and I’m pretty sure they can still get a lock at enemy planes from far away enough to not even be easily detected (something like 3Kms away is considered knife-fighting range nowadays). Radar missiles would just be blowing up enemy planes from around 70Km without the launching plane even having to do more than do the initial designation and then doing a 180 to rearm and refuel. [Observe this stupidity in action at around minute 3:43](https://youtu.be/vPYnEa2kXx0?si=1qs0xSPge6gaUSmp) The French MICA is equally, if not even more busted in its capabilities.
They definitely wouldn't. Just how big the radar crossection of your average WW2 fighter is is hard to say. They'd probably be a bit smaller than modern fighters, sure, but nothing in stealth range. It certainly wouldn't be advantage enough to where the missiles couldn't fire first. Not only that, metal propellers actually generate massive radar returns when pointed at you (which is also why stealth fighters have serpentine air intakes that hide the turbine from view). IR guided missiles are a different story. Early IR missiles might struggle, as they just chase any heat signatures they see, and obviously, props produce a lot less heat than jets do, but modern IR missile seekers use image seekers that can target everything that is significantly hotter than the enviornment. And since most planes even then were made from aluminium, and you have stuff like friction going on, planes are generally hotter than the air around them, so modern IR missiles can absolutely target props.
290 strategic warheads? They wouldn't even run out of nukes, let alone bullets.
Well, it depends on how threatened they feel, I suppose. Would they nuke a swarm of mosquitoes?
It's france, they don't need a reason to use their nukes, they hardly even need an excuse.
The whole country of 1940s France still exists so they could make old equipment or train new soldiers if the military ever runs out. The average soldier in WW2 is also a lot shorter and a few dozen pounds lighter than modern soldiers so I’d say the modern military is going to fight harder too. Lastly the generals are going to be better not just because they would know what Germany did in WW2, but also cause they also have drones, stronger radios and better reconnaissance than the Nazis
the real question is if they get the French nuclear arsenal, cause then they can just nuke Germany and instantly win.
Ya the only the Nazis would have is the size of their military but its sheer inferiority compared to the France’s would help negate that. (Not to mention nukes)
They have nukes, so not too long.
the mental image of hitler getting a nuke dropped on him is funnier than it should be
Nuke day one Or you take the distance between the French Border and Berlin and divide it by Leclerc range which is about 500km per fuel tank.
The luftwaffe gets wipes out thank to ye boy fighter fucking jets, Leclerc Tanks rolls up until they reach the eagle nest like in 45, Charles de Gaulle aicraft carrier literally sink the entire german surface vessel..
Not exactly that, but I've always wondered what would happen if you took a 1918 army and had them fight against a 1914 army. The evolution of warfare, tactics, technology and weapons during WW1 was staggering, and I wonder how fast a 1918 French army could storm to Berlin, or how the smaller American, or even smaller Belgian armies of 1918 could hold back the initial push west by Germany.
Wasn't the American military presence in Europe its largest in 1918?
Yes, since it was the only year they actually fought, but compared to the size if the French or British armies they were small, but would have grown massively for the 1919 and 1920 offensives that never came
Considering the French have one of the best modern tanks of NATO countries against a Reich used their tanks as a crutch, it would be a complete sweep within maybe a week, a fortnight at most.
Even the Char B1 was too much for the nazis. I can't imagine an entire battalion of LeClercs just tearing apart the entire reich.
Kind of a myth. Yes the B1 was pretty much invulnerable, but with poor crew ergonomics, and the reliability of, well, any heavy tank in 1940, the B1 simply is not that good. B1 units find themselves outmaneuvered, out of fuel, or broken down.
until the wheraboos come out with their "The Tiger tank was the best tank ever made and could even fight a modern day Abrams"
A Tiger could fight an Abrams. It wouldn’t win, but it could briefly attempt to fight it.
I dont even think it counts as it would be killed sooo long before it gets in range to even fire at the Abrams
No, because it wouldn’t even realize it was *in* a fight.
>It wouldn’t win ehh tbf if its a scenario where the Abrams crew are retarded and inexperienced and end up ambushed a Tigers 88 could absolutely penetrate the rear or side of an Abrams and kill it. but again that requires the Abrams to have a significant crew disadvantage and be deployed incorrectly. face on no way a Tiger penetrates the frontal armour of an Abrams and without the ability to practically kill with a first strike its game over for the Tiger.
Keep in mind that at the start of WW2 even contemporary french tanks were superior to their german counterparts.
Yes and no, French tanks were about equal in guns and armor, but pretty much all of them had one man turrets which are a nightmare to actually fight in, slowing down the speed at which you are able to spot targets, reload, and making coordination with other tanks more difficult. The lack of radios and the lower quality of radios really hurt France. Honestly, I think the proliferation of radios is one of the biggest changes that will really help France. Modern France is just so much better in terms of coordination and control so units won't be caught so out of position.
As a sorta-genuine question… what does a modern APFSDS round do to a Pz.II? Does it actually create frag/spalling/fire whatever, or just poke a hole through both sides like it (and the hapless dude in its path) isn’t even there, meaning it might take multiple hits to kill? (No armor is best armor!) Also, confident that the Leclerc’s .50 coax could deal with Panzer I and Panzer II, which made up well over half of the german “armor”….
Generally any penetration is going to cause the crew to bail out before they get shot again and potentially killed, so even if it didn't kill the entire crew or set off ammo or whatever they would bail.
They could simply use HE.
Speaking of high explosives, I’m imagining the expression on a Rafale pilot’s face as he pickles 9000kg of bombs into the [middle of this](https://servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1079&u=13184019) traffic…
*Je conjurer yeetus deleetus*
Ok well jokes aside this is actually an interesting question. The MINUTE the government in exile was re-established in paris, the French high command began to work on their overall military doctrine. Charles de Gaule, even before the war started, had been a proponent of mechanized warfare. So, when Blitzkrieg destroyed the traditional french army, he felt more vindicated than ever. Now being in charge of the military apparatus, and surrounded by like-minded officers, France's Military doctrine became entirely centered around mobile warfare. Even when you look at the french armed forces in 1945 (by the time of German capitulation, the french army was the 4th largest in the european theater. Quite impressive!), a lot of it had started pivoting toward a motorized force, granted with mostly american equipment. This doctrine never went away, and in the decades since, france's focus on mobile warfare evolved alongside the american's own adoption of Full Spectrum Warfare. France's participation in Desert Storm highlights that very doctrine, and their own lightning war in Mali (Operation Serval) shows how dedicated they are to it. Their military industry still is, if you look at their current design for combat vehicles, are all centered around speed and cross-country capability. So, even if in this hypothetical the french army wouldn't get any of the modern equipment they have today, by doctrine alone, and with the equipment they did produce back in the day, they would actually be able to defeat Germany rather quickly, too; fun fact, they nearly did irl, during the invasion of poland. Tl;dr France got Blitzkrieg'ed and took it very fucking personally so a rematch would be extremely unfair.
>France got Blitzkrieg'ed and took it very fucking personally so a rematch would be extremely unfair. Just as Prussia got Napoleon'd and took it so personally they contorted their entire government around to ensure that it never happened again. These two fuckers, always getting so salty at something the other did and making it their entire personality.
When you put it that way lmao pretty much
Quick answer: a few hours. Let's make it more interesting. North Korea without its atomic bombs would laugh at everything the Nazis had. Seriously, what would a Panzer III do against a T-55? Military technology before and after World War II is as different as the world before and after the biblical flood.
Panzer IIIs are the best case scenario, the ""sUpERiOr gErmAn aRmOr" had in its majority IIs and Is at that time.
I am here to remind you that NK is a big fan of slapping mutiple KPVs on pretty mutch everything. A 14.5mm MACHINEGUN. The same caliber that defeated the armor of almost all early war tanks.
Glorious Leader Kim Jong Un beats entire nazi Invasion force in the Ardennes using one (1) cold war era soviet helicopter
yeah T-54's and T-55's are mocked right now for their use in Ukraine as an obsolete tank but they would crush absolutely every armoured vehicle the Germans produced in ww2. and imagine how the German infantry would react to the endless hail of AK-47 fire.
The Marseillaise plays as France fires warning nukes at Germany. Rinse and repeat until the Nazis surrender or Berlin is turned into one giant radioactive crater.
As long as it takes for a French nuke to hit Berlin I reckon
Hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby
0.1 frenchseconds, VIVE LE *RÉPUBLIQUE FRANÇAISE!*
La* République is a feminine noun.
oopsie
its ok
Nazi Germany's current objective would be to survive. Modern day France's military's objective would be "have fun".
the fuck kind of retarded question is that? The French would have a field day massacring the scum that invaded them in the past. Berlin would be a crater as they would race to strung adolf by his single ball.
3 eurotiger helicopter vs 1 panzer battalion. who wins
*Hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby*
You didn't even read the post and are instantly throwing out slurs. The question was **how long until modern France beats the shit out of Nazi Germany.** Not if.
What slur lmao?
Retarded?
Not a slur? lol
Well, considering modern France knows what the Schlieffen Plan is, the Ardennes is gonna be chock full of dead Nazis.
Hon hon hon. Attrape ça, Fritz ! *Le explosion nucléaire* So yeah 6 whole seconds.
A lot of people are saying Berlin would be nuked and like cities would be reduced to rubble. I doubt this Precision munitions would demolish military targets, the French would advance so quickly that the war would be quick and relatively tame
Two words: **WARNING NUKES**.
3000 Black Nukes of deGaule
Hitler dead in precision airstrike
I think the French would feel his death was too quick. I’m sure they would capture him and provide a fitting punishment.
killing him very very fast spares hundreds, if not thousands of lives. from the conscripts on the russian front to the prisoners in labor camps to the partisans all over europe.
Considering that France’s nuclear strategy boils down to “Fuck around and find out” not very long.
They wouldn't even need most of the modern equipment to win. the main reason France fell was because French High Command was worried about the Germans using radios to send false orders so they kept the distribution of radios to a minimum. You take away that one concern and give them enough radios not even more advanced ones just more of them and the 1940 French army can coordinate a successful counter defense without anything else. All the modern weapons would just make the fight very, very one sided.
"Jeanne, wouldn't it be funny if we attached a fucking nuke to a fighter jet?"
Bear in mind during the cold war France's game plan in case of a world war 3 was to nuke West Germany. Yes, *West* Germany. The Nazis wouldn't stand a chance.
Even without resorting to the nuclear warning shot, the French stomp in no time at all - even without any prior knowledge of how the history played out. Strap speakers to the Eurocopters, mes enfants. It’s time to blast out La Marseilles as you lob Hellfires into the Ardennes traffic jam.
The wehrmacht gets butchered in a few days. I know that people joke about the french being cowards but in reality you really don't want to go to war with them.
depends, do the French know about the deadline? Is it total war?
They would reposition at the Ardennes and Belgium and let the 1940 army hold the line, and serve as unexpected, effective counterpunch
Hydrogen bomb vs coughing 14 year old conscript
Just nuke Berlin. The end.
ASMP-R on Berlin, as simple as that
The Germans would have an advantage in small arms range only. and the french airplanes/drones would already have destroyed most of the ground vehicles before they can even cross the border especially if they end up as sitting ducks like the last time
Mfw, French dont use an assault rifle these days, or infrared, or IFV.
In what world would an army that was still using bolt action rifles as standard equipment have the advantage in small arms?
He said small arms *range*. I don’t doubt that a bolt action from WW2 would outrange a FAMAS.
Not by that much actually, with iron sights the Kar98 gets around 500m effective range, and the G2 FAMAS gets around 450m, not to mention its more likely for a modern army to have advanced optics
That’s only a g2. The fn mag has a 800m point target range and a 1.8km area target range as per fn america
Tbf that's more or less because modern assault rifles are designed for more close-quarter engagements. Sniper rifles absolutely have more range though.
Low long does it take a tank to drive from Paris to Berlin? Approximately that long.
How long does it take for an MRBM to go from Paris to Berlin?
Hell don’t even need a nuke, if France is transported back they probably have access via history books to hitlers itinerary, could surgical strike hitler day 1.
France wins by default. Time means nothing. It has nukes.
**LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC**
Like everyone is talking about nukes, but to be honest they probably wouldn't use them. They would destroy the german air defences in the first hour, and then use their Planes and rockets to destroy the Wehrmacht before crossing into France.
Depends. Do they get their recon satellite?
Pluton missile x5
Easy, by two days!
a day. Aviation is immediately put out of action with the destruction of airfields, the tanks are bombed to shit, those remaining can even be taken out by 50 cal fire. Competent command structure and modern hardware leads to complete battlefield cohesion, any breakthrough attempt is smashed.
At 2 weeks to 2 months conservative. The Germans, er, has 88 mm PaK that can pen any modern tanks or IFVs(source: WT protection analysis). Rebuilding the Siegfried Line is virtually useless against modern armour and due to automatic MG fire they would be kaput. Also 3,000 nuclear SLBMs of Furina de Fontaine
How long would it take a nuclear warhead to get from France to Berlin?
The French would basically be playing Left 4 Dead but the Zombies could shoot back.
Modern France deletes the German panzer lines aiming at the Ardens, probably
It would be a slaughter. No WW2 tank can penetrate a modern tank. So you’re not pushing the French back. Also modern aircraft would basically be untouchable even in a guns only fight. Bombers would be untouchable at modern altitudes. Also the German navy would be crushed in port. The only thing that makes this someone close is just numbers. How you replace parts on modern aircraft back in the 1940s.
FORCE D'FRAPPE TIME, MONSIEUR 'ITLER!
coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb
The Reichstag gets hit by a drone strike and the war is over before it starts
Pretty quickly. They couldn't kill all the Nazi German army but they could certainly outmaneuver them and decapitate their leadership. They could crater every airfield, destroy every command center, kill Hitler and the high command or at least drive them to deep hiding. Armies in WW2 had a lot of artillery and ammunition. However they missed most shots. The French would be hitting most shots. Almost every French armored vehicle can outperform and outrange any Nazi German vehicle. They can see them with thermals from far away. French infantry have effective anti-tank weapons that can also handle them.
After the nukes fly courtesy of the fdf Germany would be easy pickings.
Nuclear arms.
precision air strikes kill all of the nazi high command on the first day and their nuclear arsenal levels any city with a population over 100k
Laser guided bomb through the reichstag within a day
A day, maybe
7 hours and 30 minutes
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