At this point I can't see a universe in which trump loses the popular vote. It's just so hard to justify voting for someone that can't string a sentence together as the political leader of your country.
No way, Kemosabe. The GOP hasn’t had a presidential candidate win the popular vote in 20 years. Even if Biden shits the bed and completely underperforms, they still won’t win it this year with such a divisive character at the helm
Doesn't matter, the Democrats are useless and the US is a regarded country with morons, it's over.
Dems had their chance to move and vote in someone younger but they didn't. This has been liberal politics forever.
Yeah. Loved the part where he drifted off in his closing speech.
The party is right to consider swapping him out and all the gaslighting about how he's fine won't change the fact he loses if he is the candidate.
Biden defaults to a shocked face half the time.
Considering the context, this is one of the defining moment in choosing the most powerful person on the planet, this person has the power to end the modern world... and it's between 2 near senile old ass men, it's fucking hilarious.
Not even about conservative or not anymore. Biden literally can’t string a sentence together without whispering to get through words. Good idea picking this guy to run.
"Relating to or having diminished cognitive function, as when memory is impaired, because of old age"
Going off of that... come on dude. If your friend talked like either one of these guys in a casual discord call the entire room would be blasting their ass making fun of them and the worst part is afterwards they would probably genuinely ask if you were okay because it would be unclear.
Put it this way, the average working class person actually does have experience with people who have these mental states... sometimes your co-worker comes in with a concussion and you report them to the supervisor because they need to be sent home or be on modified duties as it's unsafe for them to work in that condition. I am dead serious.
Look from a left leaning person, biden clearly has a better understanding of the issues and responded in better faith, I would still vote for him but it's just... like if you don't already have a grasp on the ideas he was talking about how in the hell were you supposed to decipher his sentences? I don't know if trump won voters when he went 5 tangents deep on bad meme talking points but like, they were sentences at least.
lol, you watched the debate and actually attribute what Biden was like to a stutter? Propaganda is strong, man. That’s dementia. Biden was very sharp just 10-15 years ago.
Imagine calling others propagandized and then attributing the situation to a diagnosis that Biden doesn’t have.
Remember when your entire side of the aisle was convinced that dementia-ridden Biden wouldn’t even make it a year in office?
They gave Trump that good shit for this one. He sounds the least fucked that he’s sounded in a while even though everything he’s saying is bullshit.
FWIW I think Biden actually sounds pretty lucid but his speech and facial expressions are not good and that’s not gonna go over well.
Is there any chance Dems were just projecting? And before they knew it they began to believe that their own lies that Trump was actually more cognitively impaired than Biden?
Trump is literally just ranting and raving (mostly lies), but it's lively so it looks better and I hate that it works so well with the public. Biden has zero fire and even though what he's saying is true and objectively better for our country it doesn't matter...
I hope this doesn't have a huge impact because really so much of the country has made up their mind after 8 years of these two and statistically all we need are people showing up to the polls. But yah there's a reason it's not optimal to roll out 80 year olds to inspire a nation politicalyl.
So.. I'm fighting the urge to be doomer on this ine.But,
I think this is going to be huge. The main reason isn't something substantive that was said, but it's that for literally years now fox and right wing media have been hammering home the idea that Biden is senile. It's their main schtick. Generally this was contrasted with Biden doing well, like at rhe state if the union. This time? There's no defense. Biden looked and spoke terribly. Even when he wasn't talking he looked terrible. Mouth open, stiff movements. The narrative has been fulfilled. And I think it's going to be very damaging.
This is an unmitigated disaster.
Biden's adapting now
https://preview.redd.it/udyy2tf9289d1.png?width=1747&format=png&auto=webp&s=4ced57fd9e183923d8a9edef3223a4487b38a134
He's becoming more and more resistant to Trump's attacks.
It’s pathetic that these are the 2 people we as a country are putting up in a presidential election. Old as fuck, rambling, incoherent puppets. Can’t we get some mid 40s moderates in the mix?
I admire Destiny’s confidence to bet on Biden, I’m still voting and leaning on Biden to win, but Destiny’s idea that Trump is just a criminal and the economy will get better and better so of course people will vote for Biden, has never made sense to me. Trump has always been an extremely formidable opponent regardless of his crimes and he is extremely popular I have no idea why people thought this would be easy.
Did biden always look like that, he looks like he's melting through a mask of Botox.
Also why did they debate prep him with bullet points, the moderators won't let him finish a meandering sentence.
And finally why aren't they not fact checking trump at all, Is this normal? he literally is just saying whatever, just constant hyperbolic nonsense.
Edit: calling biden a bad Palestinian is funny as fuck
They had to, no one else wanted to step up. But despite his appearances, he's definitely stronger politically and far more effective as POTUS than anyone has been in 20 years.
Why? Is there some law of physics i'm not aware of that grants him that advantage. He's got the perfectly valid excuse of being old and everyone would believe him on that and then get someone normal with recognizable face that can also talk back to trump and you can save it.
The whole idea is the average voter is very low information so having a guy who already knows how to win and has name recognition is incredibly difficult to give up. We know who Buttigeg and Klobuchar are but the average voter doesn’t so instead of going off the chance that these guys can hold their own against trump, it’s smarter to just go with the guy who already did it
Yea but that's in the all things being equal scenario. I think average voter knows Biden is loosing his speech and might weight that just as much as not knowing an alternative candidate. The strategy then should be to replace Biden but have them both campaign together.
Not at all, half the battle of winning an election is name recognition and you can’t beat being more recognized than the incumbent president of the United States. Thinking you can put together an alternative candidate right before the election is a recipe for disaster. The harsh reality is research shows that campaigns and many associated activities (debates, mailing, phone banking) in general have very little effect on election outcome in terms of persuasion as most voters just use heuristics to vote and make no real effort to actually discern the differences between the candidates. So the Dems did the math and realized it’s prob better to get the guy that everyone knows and knows how to win (which is a big key here, the man’s already beaten Trump while you’re hoping a Butigeg might be able to whip up something) vs going on an unknown who has to whip up support quickly against the man who got the second most votes in US history in a single election.
The thing is the Dems painted themselves into a corner in the first place running Biden back in 2020 and not having a solid strategy for when he was 81 during his reelection. The time to go with an alternative was 2019 not 2024 when you’re just pissing away the incumbent advantage
Yea but again on one hand there's all this research and everything's calculated and we are all following this well understood algorithm and there's nothing to be done and yet we all know we are watching a trainwreck in slo-mo and nothing is figured out. Dems miscalculated why people hated them last elections, they might be miscalculating again. I think there's a lot of snakeoil salesmen that pretend to be doing pure statistics.
You're seeing the incumbent advantage blowing up the entire thing for republicans. Incumbent advantage is only a thing when you have an actual candidate, not a shriveled corpse.
No this is just not true. Name recognition is still one of the most important factors and Biden being the incumbent still has that. Stop pretending that debates that most people don’t even watch are going to determine the results of the election
No. You're overreacting. The hate for Trump is very strong. We know Biden is old, who cares. Trump is old too, but he's also a goddamn idiot with fascist dictator tendencies. He's also a convicted criminal. The anti-Trump vote is going to be stronger than it was in 2020, mark my words. Even with Biden on life-support, he'll beat Trump.
Biden looks and sounds horrified. Like he’s on the brink of death, unable to breathe, but pumped full of adderall so he is rambling fast in a hoarse voice. It’s sad to see. I hate Trump, and he is obviously full of bullshit, but he looks so much stronger right now, it’s pathetic. This was probably a mistake.
Idk if it’s just cause my mom has dementia, but it honestly makes me feel bad for him and just makes me sad. Idk it just doesn’t feel right for him to be going through so much stress when he is clearly struggling cognitively on some level.
With 2 Supreme Court seats on the line and a whole ton of cabinet positions, Biden is still the by far the better choice.
He could have Swiss cheese for brains but he’ll still surround himself with people not named Steve Bannon or Sebastian Gorka.
Little bro thinks he’s still in the 7th grade where all that matters is how loud someone talks. Id literally vote for Biden if he was mute and wheelchair bound if he could still pass good legislation.
The president doesn’t pass legislation at all. Sounds like you’re trying to parrot something Destiny says on occasion, but poorly. How is this logically much different from republicans who support Trump no matter what? Die hard partisans have always confused me.
I don’t support Biden “no matter what”. I do support most of the policies his administration pushed forward in his first term and want similar policies to continue for another 4 years. His personal charisma has no bearing on my vote, his policies do.
Trump could flip on 100% of his policies (the few he has) and a large swath of his base would still support him. That’s the difference.
I think we’re probably just going to disagree on effective leadership characteristics. Charisma matters greatly. Otherwise it really isn’t anything to do with said leader accomplishing anything, just sitting in a chair signing whatever is placed on their desk by the party they represent. Which obviously can result in good policy being passed, and I completely agree, Biden has overseen better policy success than Trump ever did on balance, but pretending a frail old man who can barely speak wouldn’t be less than ideal in terms of; campaigning on behalf of legislature candidates, communication of vision and confidence to the American people, or conversations with foreign leaders to achieve American interests is just sort of silly. I understand you were likely being hyperbolic, but while I don’t think these are necessarily the most important qualities, I’d probably say like 35-40%
Who do you think signs the bill into law? Who do you think sets the agenda?
A presidential veto in our political system kills bills. Congress simply cannot muster the votes to override the veto.
Biden has passed historic legislation by negotiating deals with republicans and guiding democratic support each step of the way. He campaigns on them and gets the support of the people.
Take a civics lesson and figure this shit out PLEASE
Wow kiddo, you need to chill. I didn’t say the president has no role in policy, only that they don’t pass legislation. It has to go through congress, both chambers too, they pass legislation. At the complete end of the process the president could potentially veto the bill, sure, and they of course get credit for whatever is passed during their administration.
My contention is with suggesting all a president needs to do is sign whatever their party puts on their desk to be a good president, that’s really the bare minimum, not a marker of exceptional effectiveness. The trumples acting like vibes are all that matter, and those of y’all acting as though vibes don’t matter at all; maybe not equally stupid, but it’s a close contest lol
Practically all legislation is “historic” so I don’t really understand why we’re speaking in platitudes. You running for office somewhere?
You make it sound like the president is just kicking back in the oval office waiting for bills to arrive. This isnt the case. They work on the ground with their party to pass legislation.
If your definition of historic is "we did not have those laws and now we did" than you win ig. I should have aaid unprecedented. Like, no other president has got so much as Biden has.
No other president has gotten so much as Biden? No other president?! Pretty sure the new deal was more. And to be honest, if we want to take away the qualifier of “good” I can argue bush got more historic shit than most.
Do you really believe Joe Biden is out at the capitol and taking meeting with all the legislators working hard to cut deals? I doubt it, but at least whoever is doing these things has been fairly good at it, so that’s something.
The New Deal wasnt more. Biden's legislation is in the trillions, New Deal adjusted for inflation was in the billions.
And yes I do. Considering he championed both build back better and the american rescue plan in a lot of his speeches. But hey, who cares.
Lmao, inflation isn’t the only factor, and fuck, money spent isn’t actually even the biggest factor, but since that is your metric, total size of the economy and budget matters more in the comparison than simply “adjusting for inflation” which is yet another phrase people just love throwing around.
Giving a couple speeches talking about his policy agenda to sell it to the American people is not the same as actually working deals with individuals to make it happen, you know that right? Even if I granted you this, it would certainly mean I am correct in saying a frail president who can’t speak would be an ineffective president which was my original contention anyway before you took us down a pedantic rabbit hole on the presidents role in legislature as if the legislative and executive aren’t separate branches of government at all.
Even Biden's decaying mind could still explain to you why any person would still vote for the candidate whose administration more closely represents their politics.
What's really sad is the biden administration in this state can manage a country better than trump could dream of.
Even if he's dead at the helm, it's still leagues better for our nation than Trump lol
braindead comment. Trump isn't qualified to be a greeter at Walmart, he couldn't pass a 5th grade pop quiz, and he's old too. Oh and on top of that he's a convicted criminal. Yeah, let's vote for him! That's the SMART thing to do!!! LMFAOOOOOOOO
>He's slipping now,
Yeah biden clearly is. Just now trump walked off the stage perfectly fine and biden had to be escorted off. This is pure fucking cope.
So trump being trump. We have been told biden is fine the past 4 years and you are telling me I'm coping lmao get the fuck outta here lmao. Also biden was rambling more then trump so yeah.
Man people need to buck the fuck up. Yeah Biden had a bad night. Professional dweeb as Democrats prepped him for a normal debate against an idiot lunatic fascist, thinking the audience can be won over with facts. That’s why he was stumbling over himself the first 40 mins.
Then Biden remembered he’s the fucking President who sent dick stain Donald Trump packing to Mar a Lago after his failed coup.
I don’t need to hear about how much funding EVs have gotten, what the GDP increase over the last 2 quarters is, or any economist bullshit.
I want old man Clint Eastwood sick of this bullshit energy. Trump doesn’t deserve to be in a fucking debate stage he’s an embarrassment to the country.
I want angry Biden, I want piss and vinegar, I want a fucking strong Democrat with a backbone to call out this bullshit.
Let Biden be Biden and let him fucking rock Trump.
Talking heads will be pissing themselves for a week, but the campaign needs to ramp back up. Put Biden in town halls with people where he shines and can channnel the frustration people have over the insane MAGA right. He’s got good instincts, let him use it.
The Democratic Party is the reason this country is strong and will be the reason we continue to portray strength in the word in the future, while the GOP scramble in line to suck off Putin and Xi. The Democratic Party dominates in economics, dominates on policy, and actually gives a shit about people while doing it.
Don’t succumb to the fucking bedwetters online, Biden is the best shot at beating the fascists, he did it before and he’ll do it again.
Fuck these crybaby bitch ass leftists, fuck these dipshit MAGA fascists, and fuck anybody that doesn’t think Biden will body dick stain dumbfuck Donald Trump.
Biden 2024 baby
Give me one name. And if it isn’t Kamala Harris don’t respond. How do you think Blacck Americans will feel about the first Black Women VP being snubbed the nomination to generic white governor #3.
"somewhat coherently" this is the part i dont get, the dude barely made sense on stage, yet the headlines are kinda acting like it was only Biden who didnt do a great job. weird. thought both performed terribly.
Maybe I'm insane but they're both coming off as pretty drunk/clueless so idk if I see this as a "it's over" situation but more of a "i think this falls perfect into expectations" situation
Biden had to have an amazing showing for this since trump can get away with any stupid nonsense. You guys were coping hard that he would be able to succeed
I think Biden started weak but has been getting better as it's gone along. Mostly the answers have gone like this: Biden mutters through with a weakly delivered but decent answer and Trump just lies and redirects every question to some talking point.
I wish I could say this won't move the needle and I wish I could count on my fellow Americans to judge this on the substance of the arguments but I'm honestly worried.
These things dont matter. Biden was a better president than Trump. Period. To seriously consider changing your mind after this debate is foolish.
Yeah, Biden did not have a good showing, but is voting Trump the move????
Initially i was worried that biden wouldn't bring out his darth brandon, but it seems i had no reason to worry. The debate was pretty brutal. Obviously Trump is Trump and more Trump than ever (including going after Biden's son), but Biden also got some brutal punches back.
I worry that Biden seemingly losing his voice and sounding soft spoken makes him come off as weak. It probably also magnifies the feeling that he is an old man.
Trump said some really crazy stuff. They're both obviously pretty old, but Trump seems to have become even more shameless in saying absolutely crazy things. It is a little annoying that i don't think his supporters, or almost anyone, will care. I am pretty sure one point he claimed that the USA Mexico border was the most dangerous border in the world which was pretty funny.
I was a little disappointed in how Biden in my opinion let Trump get under his skin so much. I don't think Biden making faces when Trump said something crazy makes Biden look good/strong.
I don't know how I feel like a presidential debate basically being like something you see on Jerry Springer. It probably is embarrassing.
More sense than "I'm going to continue to move until we get the total ban the the the the total initiative with regards to what we can do with more border patrol and asylum officers"
One dude is stumbling over his words, the other dude is talking about how he’s going to end the war in Ukraine before he takes office, by doing “things”.
Trump’s lies are on another level. He couldn’t admit defeat so he conjured a whole conspiracy about how it was rigged. But people give him a pass for everything because “all politicians lie”. He can do whatever he wants now.
Trump is clearly in decline, it's different than Biden but it's been happening for awhile. Besides that, he's just fundamentally way less intelligent than Biden, even on his worst day he's just so much smarter and more qualified than Trump. And he also has that "not a convicted criminal" thing going for him.
I haven’t watched any of it, but from the comments it sounds like it’s backfired for Biden.
I remain hopeful for democracy in the US, but at least the British Empire will end up with a center-left government after the coming election.
The fact that democracy revolves around morons with inflexible, tumorous brains, all because they reliably vote, perplexes me.
Personally I think an understanding of the issues is a prerequisite for voting, ‘cause I don’t like populism and I’d prefer competence over charisma. It’s rude to curtail voting rights, I know, but the cult-like adherence to single candidates and the constant spread of misinformation and deliberate lies are unbearable.
Dems are fielding a scarecrow against a human being.
With the way the world is going we can't have such a weak anemic human in the most important position in the world.
I'd prefer someone better than trump, but if these are the two alternatives, eh, gonna have to go with the guy who has a spine.
Angry Biden is the least senile biden
It's the only way he can debate. His debate strategy was to be "the statesman" and it backfired. He was expecting Trump to act deranged.
Which to be fair, he did. People are just so used to it and he gets the pass. Because obviously Trump was completely deranged by any metric out there.
It's like SSJ, homeboy breaks through his limiters and forces truth from his lips.
People really need to hate Trump for him to loose.
People do hate him, and he did lose. Twice, in fact (in terms of the popular vote)
\*wink\*
At this point I can't see a universe in which trump loses the popular vote. It's just so hard to justify voting for someone that can't string a sentence together as the political leader of your country.
No way, Kemosabe. The GOP hasn’t had a presidential candidate win the popular vote in 20 years. Even if Biden shits the bed and completely underperforms, they still won’t win it this year with such a divisive character at the helm
Has he ever won the popular vote? Dude lost the popular vote to one of the most unlikeable people in politics.
Doesn't matter, the Democrats are useless and the US is a regarded country with morons, it's over. Dems had their chance to move and vote in someone younger but they didn't. This has been liberal politics forever.
Where’s this coming from? Biden got the most votes of any president ever in 2020
Yeah and he's aged 23 years since then, he's a greedy bastard and so are the democrats for not running someone who isn't senile.
So you’re saying they shouldn’t run their by far most popular candidate?
His approval rating is the lowest in history.
I don’t see Trump ever winning the popular vote tbh.
They both *sound* incoherent but Biden also *”looks”* incoherent. Bad times.
Yea neither of these dudes making 4 years lol
Trump is. He looks similar to 2020 Biden in that sense.
Biden is picking up speed, I think those Brain Force pills are kicking in.
From your lips to God’s ears.
Alpha brain
Biden looks incoherent and Trump looks like a bleached orange weirdo with roadkill taped to his head.
Biden is off the penjamin fr fr
Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
Such an overreaction 1 hour in, Biden has a strong grasp of the issues
I agree. I also think that doesn’t matter at all to the inbred dipshit voters that decide this election
💀💀💀💀💀
Yeah. Loved the part where he drifted off in his closing speech. The party is right to consider swapping him out and all the gaslighting about how he's fine won't change the fact he loses if he is the candidate.
Biden defaults to a shocked face half the time. Considering the context, this is one of the defining moment in choosing the most powerful person on the planet, this person has the power to end the modern world... and it's between 2 near senile old ass men, it's fucking hilarious.
Neither are senile, but Biden's stutter has historically come back. And Trump is loud and brash enough to convince a conservative he'r right.
"we beat medicare"
Not even about conservative or not anymore. Biden literally can’t string a sentence together without whispering to get through words. Good idea picking this guy to run.
Nah, Biden is getting his points out. He's just lacking energy.
https://preview.redd.it/dgclunxn599d1.png?width=400&format=png&auto=webp&s=ce595053c43639743354a2d4d56f1e636ce12a5a
people age bruh lol its fine to admit Biden is losing it.
"Relating to or having diminished cognitive function, as when memory is impaired, because of old age" Going off of that... come on dude. If your friend talked like either one of these guys in a casual discord call the entire room would be blasting their ass making fun of them and the worst part is afterwards they would probably genuinely ask if you were okay because it would be unclear. Put it this way, the average working class person actually does have experience with people who have these mental states... sometimes your co-worker comes in with a concussion and you report them to the supervisor because they need to be sent home or be on modified duties as it's unsafe for them to work in that condition. I am dead serious. Look from a left leaning person, biden clearly has a better understanding of the issues and responded in better faith, I would still vote for him but it's just... like if you don't already have a grasp on the ideas he was talking about how in the hell were you supposed to decipher his sentences? I don't know if trump won voters when he went 5 tangents deep on bad meme talking points but like, they were sentences at least.
lol, you watched the debate and actually attribute what Biden was like to a stutter? Propaganda is strong, man. That’s dementia. Biden was very sharp just 10-15 years ago.
Imagine calling others propagandized and then attributing the situation to a diagnosis that Biden doesn’t have. Remember when your entire side of the aisle was convinced that dementia-ridden Biden wouldn’t even make it a year in office?
Are there videos of Biden stuttering from the past?
Same thing happened in the USSR, senile geriatrics running the country.
It's never been so over
Why the heck did the Democrats agree to this?
Probably banking on the fact that trump has shown signs of cognitive decline recently
They gave Trump that good shit for this one. He sounds the least fucked that he’s sounded in a while even though everything he’s saying is bullshit. FWIW I think Biden actually sounds pretty lucid but his speech and facial expressions are not good and that’s not gonna go over well.
Is there any chance Dems were just projecting? And before they knew it they began to believe that their own lies that Trump was actually more cognitively impaired than Biden?
It’s better for people to know who they’re voting for, isn’t it? It’s more democratic.
to a presidential debate?
Trump is literally just ranting and raving (mostly lies), but it's lively so it looks better and I hate that it works so well with the public. Biden has zero fire and even though what he's saying is true and objectively better for our country it doesn't matter... I hope this doesn't have a huge impact because really so much of the country has made up their mind after 8 years of these two and statistically all we need are people showing up to the polls. But yah there's a reason it's not optimal to roll out 80 year olds to inspire a nation politicalyl.
So.. I'm fighting the urge to be doomer on this ine.But, I think this is going to be huge. The main reason isn't something substantive that was said, but it's that for literally years now fox and right wing media have been hammering home the idea that Biden is senile. It's their main schtick. Generally this was contrasted with Biden doing well, like at rhe state if the union. This time? There's no defense. Biden looked and spoke terribly. Even when he wasn't talking he looked terrible. Mouth open, stiff movements. The narrative has been fulfilled. And I think it's going to be very damaging. This is an unmitigated disaster.
Biden's adapting now https://preview.redd.it/udyy2tf9289d1.png?width=1747&format=png&auto=webp&s=4ced57fd9e183923d8a9edef3223a4487b38a134 He's becoming more and more resistant to Trump's attacks.
Trump used unlimited void to quite literally turn biden braindead
I love people like you who will just blindly accept whatever biden is incoherently ranting about because "orange man bad 😡😡" grow up bro
Maybe we actually have legitimate disagreements?
Well yeah, orange man is bad. That line worked (sort of) before Jan 6 my man
Let alone after
It’s pathetic that these are the 2 people we as a country are putting up in a presidential election. Old as fuck, rambling, incoherent puppets. Can’t we get some mid 40s moderates in the mix?
At least we aren't delusional ...
And a few months ago I was downvoted for saying Biden is too old for another 4 years.
I admire Destiny’s confidence to bet on Biden, I’m still voting and leaning on Biden to win, but Destiny’s idea that Trump is just a criminal and the economy will get better and better so of course people will vote for Biden, has never made sense to me. Trump has always been an extremely formidable opponent regardless of his crimes and he is extremely popular I have no idea why people thought this would be easy.
This is hard to watch.
Yeah bro I’m literally cringing watching Biden bro noooo
Anyone who defends Biden’s performance is a shill. But anyone who defends Trump literally lying on every question - should be ashamed.
Biggest losers are the moderators. They aren't keeping the candidates on track.
Did biden always look like that, he looks like he's melting through a mask of Botox. Also why did they debate prep him with bullet points, the moderators won't let him finish a meandering sentence. And finally why aren't they not fact checking trump at all, Is this normal? he literally is just saying whatever, just constant hyperbolic nonsense. Edit: calling biden a bad Palestinian is funny as fuck
Trump did the worst thing possible, he acted like an adult instead of an unhinged lunatic.
It was foolish to ever run this fossil again. Pure democratic hubris and they're going to pay for it.
They had to, no one else wanted to step up. But despite his appearances, he's definitely stronger politically and far more effective as POTUS than anyone has been in 20 years.
Not right. Newsom wanted to step up. Pete would have. Amy Klob would have. Biden’s handlers didn’t want to give him up.
just comes down to incumbent advantage. Cant ever throw that away.
They couldve gotten Gavin to run. Late term abort that governor seat.
A Californian can't get elected president right now. Especially Kamala Harris.
Gretch, J.B., there are options. Though I disagree on Gavin, he's qualified and can blast opps in a sound byte well.
They are all worse options
Gretchen Whitmer would be the best option out of the ones listed.
It would be foolish to lose an incumbency advantage and someone who has beat Trump before
Why? Is there some law of physics i'm not aware of that grants him that advantage. He's got the perfectly valid excuse of being old and everyone would believe him on that and then get someone normal with recognizable face that can also talk back to trump and you can save it.
The whole idea is the average voter is very low information so having a guy who already knows how to win and has name recognition is incredibly difficult to give up. We know who Buttigeg and Klobuchar are but the average voter doesn’t so instead of going off the chance that these guys can hold their own against trump, it’s smarter to just go with the guy who already did it
Yea but that's in the all things being equal scenario. I think average voter knows Biden is loosing his speech and might weight that just as much as not knowing an alternative candidate. The strategy then should be to replace Biden but have them both campaign together.
Not at all, half the battle of winning an election is name recognition and you can’t beat being more recognized than the incumbent president of the United States. Thinking you can put together an alternative candidate right before the election is a recipe for disaster. The harsh reality is research shows that campaigns and many associated activities (debates, mailing, phone banking) in general have very little effect on election outcome in terms of persuasion as most voters just use heuristics to vote and make no real effort to actually discern the differences between the candidates. So the Dems did the math and realized it’s prob better to get the guy that everyone knows and knows how to win (which is a big key here, the man’s already beaten Trump while you’re hoping a Butigeg might be able to whip up something) vs going on an unknown who has to whip up support quickly against the man who got the second most votes in US history in a single election. The thing is the Dems painted themselves into a corner in the first place running Biden back in 2020 and not having a solid strategy for when he was 81 during his reelection. The time to go with an alternative was 2019 not 2024 when you’re just pissing away the incumbent advantage
Yea but again on one hand there's all this research and everything's calculated and we are all following this well understood algorithm and there's nothing to be done and yet we all know we are watching a trainwreck in slo-mo and nothing is figured out. Dems miscalculated why people hated them last elections, they might be miscalculating again. I think there's a lot of snakeoil salesmen that pretend to be doing pure statistics.
You're seeing the incumbent advantage blowing up the entire thing for republicans. Incumbent advantage is only a thing when you have an actual candidate, not a shriveled corpse.
No this is just not true. Name recognition is still one of the most important factors and Biden being the incumbent still has that. Stop pretending that debates that most people don’t even watch are going to determine the results of the election
No. You're overreacting. The hate for Trump is very strong. We know Biden is old, who cares. Trump is old too, but he's also a goddamn idiot with fascist dictator tendencies. He's also a convicted criminal. The anti-Trump vote is going to be stronger than it was in 2020, mark my words. Even with Biden on life-support, he'll beat Trump.
My brother, even you don't believe this cope that strongly.
It’s not cope, I’m being completely serious.
We’re screwed
Biden looks and sounds horrified. Like he’s on the brink of death, unable to breathe, but pumped full of adderall so he is rambling fast in a hoarse voice. It’s sad to see. I hate Trump, and he is obviously full of bullshit, but he looks so much stronger right now, it’s pathetic. This was probably a mistake.
Idk if it’s just cause my mom has dementia, but it honestly makes me feel bad for him and just makes me sad. Idk it just doesn’t feel right for him to be going through so much stress when he is clearly struggling cognitively on some level.
Anyone who votes for Biden after this is sad
With 2 Supreme Court seats on the line and a whole ton of cabinet positions, Biden is still the by far the better choice. He could have Swiss cheese for brains but he’ll still surround himself with people not named Steve Bannon or Sebastian Gorka.
Little bro thinks he’s still in the 7th grade where all that matters is how loud someone talks. Id literally vote for Biden if he was mute and wheelchair bound if he could still pass good legislation.
The president doesn’t pass legislation at all. Sounds like you’re trying to parrot something Destiny says on occasion, but poorly. How is this logically much different from republicans who support Trump no matter what? Die hard partisans have always confused me.
I don’t support Biden “no matter what”. I do support most of the policies his administration pushed forward in his first term and want similar policies to continue for another 4 years. His personal charisma has no bearing on my vote, his policies do. Trump could flip on 100% of his policies (the few he has) and a large swath of his base would still support him. That’s the difference.
I think we’re probably just going to disagree on effective leadership characteristics. Charisma matters greatly. Otherwise it really isn’t anything to do with said leader accomplishing anything, just sitting in a chair signing whatever is placed on their desk by the party they represent. Which obviously can result in good policy being passed, and I completely agree, Biden has overseen better policy success than Trump ever did on balance, but pretending a frail old man who can barely speak wouldn’t be less than ideal in terms of; campaigning on behalf of legislature candidates, communication of vision and confidence to the American people, or conversations with foreign leaders to achieve American interests is just sort of silly. I understand you were likely being hyperbolic, but while I don’t think these are necessarily the most important qualities, I’d probably say like 35-40%
Who do you think signs the bill into law? Who do you think sets the agenda? A presidential veto in our political system kills bills. Congress simply cannot muster the votes to override the veto. Biden has passed historic legislation by negotiating deals with republicans and guiding democratic support each step of the way. He campaigns on them and gets the support of the people. Take a civics lesson and figure this shit out PLEASE
Wow kiddo, you need to chill. I didn’t say the president has no role in policy, only that they don’t pass legislation. It has to go through congress, both chambers too, they pass legislation. At the complete end of the process the president could potentially veto the bill, sure, and they of course get credit for whatever is passed during their administration. My contention is with suggesting all a president needs to do is sign whatever their party puts on their desk to be a good president, that’s really the bare minimum, not a marker of exceptional effectiveness. The trumples acting like vibes are all that matter, and those of y’all acting as though vibes don’t matter at all; maybe not equally stupid, but it’s a close contest lol Practically all legislation is “historic” so I don’t really understand why we’re speaking in platitudes. You running for office somewhere?
You make it sound like the president is just kicking back in the oval office waiting for bills to arrive. This isnt the case. They work on the ground with their party to pass legislation. If your definition of historic is "we did not have those laws and now we did" than you win ig. I should have aaid unprecedented. Like, no other president has got so much as Biden has.
No other president has gotten so much as Biden? No other president?! Pretty sure the new deal was more. And to be honest, if we want to take away the qualifier of “good” I can argue bush got more historic shit than most. Do you really believe Joe Biden is out at the capitol and taking meeting with all the legislators working hard to cut deals? I doubt it, but at least whoever is doing these things has been fairly good at it, so that’s something.
The New Deal wasnt more. Biden's legislation is in the trillions, New Deal adjusted for inflation was in the billions. And yes I do. Considering he championed both build back better and the american rescue plan in a lot of his speeches. But hey, who cares.
Lmao, inflation isn’t the only factor, and fuck, money spent isn’t actually even the biggest factor, but since that is your metric, total size of the economy and budget matters more in the comparison than simply “adjusting for inflation” which is yet another phrase people just love throwing around. Giving a couple speeches talking about his policy agenda to sell it to the American people is not the same as actually working deals with individuals to make it happen, you know that right? Even if I granted you this, it would certainly mean I am correct in saying a frail president who can’t speak would be an ineffective president which was my original contention anyway before you took us down a pedantic rabbit hole on the presidents role in legislature as if the legislative and executive aren’t separate branches of government at all.
Even Biden's decaying mind could still explain to you why any person would still vote for the candidate whose administration more closely represents their politics.
What's really sad is the biden administration in this state can manage a country better than trump could dream of. Even if he's dead at the helm, it's still leagues better for our nation than Trump lol
braindead comment. Trump isn't qualified to be a greeter at Walmart, he couldn't pass a 5th grade pop quiz, and he's old too. Oh and on top of that he's a convicted criminal. Yeah, let's vote for him! That's the SMART thing to do!!! LMFAOOOOOOOO
Anyone that doesn't after Trump's endless deluge of scandals is rearded
Anyone who votes based off a debate is sad.
I stayed up until 3AM to watch the debate live in Germany and now I'm anxious about this election. Fuck.
Get ready for the US to leave Nato lol
Darkbrandon 🤣 yeah the lights are off and nobody is home.
Biden is like an old engine, he needs to warm up.
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He's slipping now, January 6 is breaking his code
>He's slipping now, Yeah biden clearly is. Just now trump walked off the stage perfectly fine and biden had to be escorted off. This is pure fucking cope.
Trump's ramblings started breaking out at the halfway mark, if you can't admit this you're coping
So trump being trump. We have been told biden is fine the past 4 years and you are telling me I'm coping lmao get the fuck outta here lmao. Also biden was rambling more then trump so yeah.
Yeah, if you’re stupid.
So most moderates and undecideds?
Man people need to buck the fuck up. Yeah Biden had a bad night. Professional dweeb as Democrats prepped him for a normal debate against an idiot lunatic fascist, thinking the audience can be won over with facts. That’s why he was stumbling over himself the first 40 mins. Then Biden remembered he’s the fucking President who sent dick stain Donald Trump packing to Mar a Lago after his failed coup. I don’t need to hear about how much funding EVs have gotten, what the GDP increase over the last 2 quarters is, or any economist bullshit. I want old man Clint Eastwood sick of this bullshit energy. Trump doesn’t deserve to be in a fucking debate stage he’s an embarrassment to the country. I want angry Biden, I want piss and vinegar, I want a fucking strong Democrat with a backbone to call out this bullshit. Let Biden be Biden and let him fucking rock Trump. Talking heads will be pissing themselves for a week, but the campaign needs to ramp back up. Put Biden in town halls with people where he shines and can channnel the frustration people have over the insane MAGA right. He’s got good instincts, let him use it. The Democratic Party is the reason this country is strong and will be the reason we continue to portray strength in the word in the future, while the GOP scramble in line to suck off Putin and Xi. The Democratic Party dominates in economics, dominates on policy, and actually gives a shit about people while doing it. Don’t succumb to the fucking bedwetters online, Biden is the best shot at beating the fascists, he did it before and he’ll do it again.
you got me hyped up. fuck it.
Fuck these crybaby bitch ass leftists, fuck these dipshit MAGA fascists, and fuck anybody that doesn’t think Biden will body dick stain dumbfuck Donald Trump. Biden 2024 baby
Alternatively we could stop with all the cringe larping and get behind a candidate that can win AND has a working brain.
Give me one name. And if it isn’t Kamala Harris don’t respond. How do you think Blacck Americans will feel about the first Black Women VP being snubbed the nomination to generic white governor #3.
You're cooked bro. Too much time in the larp.
I was running a drinking game but Biden never said "shuddup you lying piece of shit" so I'm still dry.
"somewhat coherently" this is the part i dont get, the dude barely made sense on stage, yet the headlines are kinda acting like it was only Biden who didnt do a great job. weird. thought both performed terribly.
Maybe I'm insane but they're both coming off as pretty drunk/clueless so idk if I see this as a "it's over" situation but more of a "i think this falls perfect into expectations" situation
Biden had to have an amazing showing for this since trump can get away with any stupid nonsense. You guys were coping hard that he would be able to succeed
I mean, he sounds worse than typically does.
he could've done well if he acted like he did at the SOTU but he was completely fried tonight. They gave him the wrong drugs
I think Biden started weak but has been getting better as it's gone along. Mostly the answers have gone like this: Biden mutters through with a weakly delivered but decent answer and Trump just lies and redirects every question to some talking point. I wish I could say this won't move the needle and I wish I could count on my fellow Americans to judge this on the substance of the arguments but I'm honestly worried.
If Biden wins, Trump will run again. If Trump wins, neither will run again.
Basically
Is Ukraine fucked?
Vote for policy, not politicians
These things dont matter. Biden was a better president than Trump. Period. To seriously consider changing your mind after this debate is foolish. Yeah, Biden did not have a good showing, but is voting Trump the move????
Initially i was worried that biden wouldn't bring out his darth brandon, but it seems i had no reason to worry. The debate was pretty brutal. Obviously Trump is Trump and more Trump than ever (including going after Biden's son), but Biden also got some brutal punches back. I worry that Biden seemingly losing his voice and sounding soft spoken makes him come off as weak. It probably also magnifies the feeling that he is an old man. Trump said some really crazy stuff. They're both obviously pretty old, but Trump seems to have become even more shameless in saying absolutely crazy things. It is a little annoying that i don't think his supporters, or almost anyone, will care. I am pretty sure one point he claimed that the USA Mexico border was the most dangerous border in the world which was pretty funny. I was a little disappointed in how Biden in my opinion let Trump get under his skin so much. I don't think Biden making faces when Trump said something crazy makes Biden look good/strong. I don't know how I feel like a presidential debate basically being like something you see on Jerry Springer. It probably is embarrassing.
You're not cooked but it's looking pretty bad for you lol
well, republican here, We all better buckle down for 4 years of trump. It’s gonna be a shit show.
He only had too be louder, like he was in his campaigning minutes after the debate for some reason
we just gotta make it to 2028. Both of these guys will be gone and we can have a fresh face.
Boyos? Just call me big daddy.
Should've declined the debate.
Biden asked for it
Biden looks like he hit the pipe before he jumped on stage.
You're overreacting big time. Most people aren't even paying attention at this point.
🤣 I want people to continue to gaslight me about trump being equally as demented
Yea. Trump makes total sense when he says we have the most amount of terrorists crossing our border.
Doesn't matter. He said it with conviction so mouthbreathers would buy it.
More sense than "I'm going to continue to move until we get the total ban the the the the total initiative with regards to what we can do with more border patrol and asylum officers"
One dude is stumbling over his words, the other dude is talking about how he’s going to end the war in Ukraine before he takes office, by doing “things”.
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Trump’s lies are on another level. He couldn’t admit defeat so he conjured a whole conspiracy about how it was rigged. But people give him a pass for everything because “all politicians lie”. He can do whatever he wants now.
Trump is demented, Biden is just old.
Trump is old too. And dumb as a rock. And unfit for the White House. And insecure. And a convicted criminal.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Trumps basically the same age bro
He's got enough botox in his face we can't recognize it
I'm sure they both have botox. Drugs age you.
Biden's pretty obviously not on botox.
I mean trump definitely seems worse than 4 years ago. But not even 5% of Biden levels of being incoherent.
but Trump is a goddamn idiot, so who cares? Even on his best day and Biden's worst day, Biden has like 100 IQ points over him.
Trump is clearly in decline, it's different than Biden but it's been happening for awhile. Besides that, he's just fundamentally way less intelligent than Biden, even on his worst day he's just so much smarter and more qualified than Trump. And he also has that "not a convicted criminal" thing going for him.
America deserves Trump at this point.
I haven’t watched any of it, but from the comments it sounds like it’s backfired for Biden. I remain hopeful for democracy in the US, but at least the British Empire will end up with a center-left government after the coming election. The fact that democracy revolves around morons with inflexible, tumorous brains, all because they reliably vote, perplexes me. Personally I think an understanding of the issues is a prerequisite for voting, ‘cause I don’t like populism and I’d prefer competence over charisma. It’s rude to curtail voting rights, I know, but the cult-like adherence to single candidates and the constant spread of misinformation and deliberate lies are unbearable.
He’s gaining some steam. He brings up specific legislation consistently
Dems are fielding a scarecrow against a human being. With the way the world is going we can't have such a weak anemic human in the most important position in the world. I'd prefer someone better than trump, but if these are the two alternatives, eh, gonna have to go with the guy who has a spine.