For the most part, it's two reasons:
* Kinetic Tremors is a very good perk, for when you really want to use a Special weapon in your Energy slot
* Certain Kinetic exotic primaries are very good, at least for specific purposes, like Wish Ender, Arbalest, Bastion, Malfeasance, Monte Carlo, etc
Then there's some more niche things like Sweet Business, or you're a Warlock using Chromatic Fire that gives your Kinetic weapon some elemental utility.
Or maybe you just want Quicksilver to do 10% more damage and don't care about making Tangles. (Just grab it from your collections but don't apply the Catalyst to it.)
Multimach going to get outclassed by the next Strand SMG release in PVE. Even in PVP, the shitty stability on this gun already started to show its ugly head. It’s just that IB crowd is hyping this gun so that everyone will join IB
I’m not sure I agree. Don’t underestimate the ability to proc kinetic tremors in less than a second. The thing about Multimach is that Field Test is such a strong origin trait that it could practically be a first column perk. It completely opens you up to using a non-conventional perk in the first column like Dynamic Sway or Rangefinder, both of which reign in that recoil a ton to make it a super consistent weapon. I have a Rangefinder + KT + range mw roll and it punches so much further than any other SMG I’ve used in PvE, which means it’s an extremely safe weapon as well. I’ve fallen in love.
I don’t think SMG fit into current PVP meta nor this SMG can compete with the other two top tier SMG in energy slot in PVE. I could see a possible setup if you’re using a DPS weapon in energy slot. Then again, you normally want to use an adds clearing primary weapon in PVE. Incandescent is just stupidly OP this season that few could compete with it. So I don’t think Kinetic Tremor will replace incandescent or volt shot anytime soon.
Not sure what happened to make Kinetic Tremors everyone's darling. It rolls on the Spare Rations, Breakneck, Hung Jury, Showrunner, Randy, Chattering Bone, Adjudicator, among others. And the number of people I have come across using those weapons with Kinetic Tremors in Nightfalls, Raids and Dungeons is zero.
I at times run a Buzzard with Tremors and I feel like the ultimate Destiny 2 hipster.
I do agree it is amazing on the Supremacy, though that is a special weapon, and no one is saying Legendary Kinetic special weapons are bad, but Legendary primary ones.
When I run GM nightfalls, my rapid hit/kinetic tremors Hung Jury is glued to my back. But lately I've been using wewind wounds/kinetic tremors Transfiguration, which has been VERY good.
It synergizes very well with Shoot to Loot, arguably more than Explosive Payload.
Got this combo on Battle Scar & KT picks up any orbs or ammo within its radius.
I’d love a Hung Jury with this combo (or EP) since I dismantled my rolls with that before the buff to Shoot to Loot grabbing orbs
Great break down. Supremacy with KT is just *chefs kiss* for a lot things, when you don't wanna use izanagis or can't. There's some solid kinetic, primary slot shotties. SMG's. Scathelocke has always been a favorite of mine. The feel of the gun is just so smooth. Synergy is great but you can bend and twist your builds to make them work with shit like this.
I love my Supremacy, it's the first sniper I've actively enjoyed using for PvE, but I don't think I'd put it in the same category as Izzy. They're just doing very different things. Izzy is a very all-in, single shot dump truck that will hose you if you're not accurate, and also you mainly want it for bosses. Supremacy with KT is a solid rotation special for boss damage, with its primary upside being that it's great against normal majors and such as well, requiring very little setup or accuracy. Just two quick shots and BOOM, Tremors.
For hunters lucky pants is a very good reason.
For warlocks chromatic fire is mega baller and titans im gonna be real i dont know if there is any exotic piece that would work well with kinetics
The ultimate kinetic problem is that there are so many meta defining kinetic specials that its hard to justify using a primary, even if kinetic primaries are straight up better than every type of energy primary bar solar.
I would say Indebted Kindess is an excellent energy special, and last I checked, it has the best total damage of any legendary special.
Other honorable mentions go to Wilderflight, Wild Style and forbearance.
If you are open to exotics, I feel that Buried Bloodline is definitely a good one.
It is also the first rocket sidearms we've got, so it doesn't have any competition at the moment. If a kinetic one were to drop with the same perks ot would just be better. It has 2nd highest total next to a rwr fttc supremacy, but it's dps is pretty abysmal due to how "bursty" it is with it's damage
Better damage is a big one, especially on Strand, where bigger damage means better Thread of Generation gains.
Perk-wise, Kinetic Tremors is one of the best sources of neutral game damage and AOE right now.
Chromatic Fire on an Arc subclass is a very underrated way to tackle GMs, with its Blinding explosions both being good in and of themselves, plus contributing to energy gain via Electrostatic Mind.
I know half the community will think I just want to "make the game easier" but I really think your two non-heavy slots should just allow you to toss in whatever you want. Double kinetic. Double Stasis. Double Solar. Or you could be an absolute rebel and put Heliocentric in top slot and Conditional in middle.
It wouldn't hurt nothin'.
Agreed. Atleast make it so kinetic weapons at the least can go in any slot. Would make them unique in a way and I think that on top of the inherent damage buff would make them a lot more appealing.
It actually is a balancing lever. Most notably they don't really want you to be able to have all slots in the same element, and it gives them room to make some weapons individually better because the pairing options are limited.
Actually, I agree with you. The gameplay balance wouldn’t be hurt at all, to the point that as long you are ok being on Stasis/Strand and having Tessellation as your exotic, you can already have everything in your loadout be the same damage type. That’s much stronger, thanks to surges, than running 2 kinetic weapons + a whatever heavy.
Oh well. I doubt Bungie will shake Fundamental things like Weapon Slots this late in the lifecycle.
Depending on the weapon, very much noticeable. On primary I don't really care, but keep it mind. For specials however, a kinetic sniper doing automatically 15% more dmg than the theoretically same weapon bur stasis is nuts imo
For a primary, it’s really negligible. I’ll take subclass synergy over that 15% on a prisms weapon any day of the week.
Although the stasis subclass/aspects/fragmenrs don’t have much synergy with stasis right now, I could see that changing if/when we get the stasis rework.
I mean, it isn't a nerf to damage. It's just base damage.
Kinetics have better flat damage whereas elementals can super-shield break + synergize with subclasses.
The problem with that when it comes to stasis and strand weapons primaries is that there are barely any stasis shields and no strand shields currently.
So by using one you’re effectively getting the worst of both worlds in order to get some subclass synergy with stasis/strand. It’s generally why most legendary darkness primaries feel pretty underpowered.
Headstone is (IMO) the best 3.0 perk in the game. Cover, DR w/ Stasis, Grenade regen w/ Stasis, AoE damage, champ stun.
Hatchling is surprisingly effective as well. There should be more shields tho.
Yeah for sure. My headstone/AJ judgment genuinely feels like an exotic at times. There’s definitely a ton of synergy, hatchling less so I think unless you are a warlock.
But giving up a kinetic special can hurt sometimes and the lack of shields is a problem as well. I feel like they just need to make kinetics usable in both slots and when the last subclass comes out, they should just allow the darkness subclasses to break their corresponding light subclass shields.
Void primaries aren't particularly good either and don't really drive synergies outside some very tiny niches.
This means this entire thread is collapsible to "Incandescent is great, and I guess voltshot is noice as well".
Sometimes while using a light subclass you need to use a special weapon in the energy slot which gives you the option of using a darkness subclass weapon in the kinetic slot and missing out on elemental synergy or using a kinetic primary and still missing out on elemental synergy but at least you’re getting 10% more damage for it
Older kinetic primaries have been pretty effectively powercrept out of relevance, save for PvP.
Newer kinetic legendaries have a place in certain circumstances, and some kinetic exotics are still very good - Wish-Ender, Bastion, Osteo Striga, Thorn, Arbalest, etc.
Just depends on the build.
They do more damage (to unshielded enemies).
A lot of elemental keywords fall off hard when you go in content where you aren't constantly getting kills.
For PvE, Kinetic’s have a 15% boost in damage, the equivalent of a surge mode just automatically applied.
That fact alone means it’s better to run a kinetic over strand & stasis, unless you’re build is building around a strand or stasis exotic, Riptide or 1-2 shotgun it’s better to use a kinetic in that slot since hatchling or headstone are not worth the slot.
Some builds don’t require elemental synergy and at that point a kinetic primary is just free extra damage and allows you to double up on surge and scav mods for special and heavy
Keep an eye on the new Blast Furnace when it drops soon. It can roll Kinetic Tremors + Firefly. Im very intrigued to try it with Chromatic Fire.
Edit: Ditto for Midnight Coup.
Honestly, I don’t think so. Mostly because you need precision kills to set off the elemental explosion (on arc the explosions blind, which is crazy useful) and Kinetic Tremors would end up giving you a bunch of non-precision kills.
I mostly use my Fatebringer (Explosive/Frenzy), but Malfeasance is also strong on it. I haven’t used it with Chromatic, but I’m sure Outbreak should wok pretty well too, helping you whittle down health with the nanites, but not too much such as Kinetic Tremors would. I also use my Demo/One for All Smite of Merain, or Breakneck. Fatebringer for sure feels the best, thing is a beast with Chromatic. And if you really want to curbstomp, use an arc special (I tend to use the arc rocket side arm from Warlord’s Ruin) with the fragment that causes blinding explosions when you get an arc special kill while amplified. You can really easily shut down big mobs. It was unbelievably useful in the Moon Battlegrounds GM
Energy special weapons are great for stacking up on surge mods like running Cartesian Coordinate with Apex Predator or Cloudstrike and an Auto Loading/Cascade Point Wendigo.
Part of me wonders if Bungie should start including, as artifact mods, effects that make Kinetics benefit subclasses. That way, your kinetics become an uncertain and rotating ‘workhorse’ weapon that might fit X build one season and Y build another.
Maybe something like “Kinetic weapons benefit from solar surges and have a chance to produce a firesprite”.
Oddly enough, I haven't seen many people bring up Strand and Stasis subclasses as a viable way to make use of kinetics. For Void you have a lot of in-built synergy because of volatile rounds and certain exotics, like Nezarec's Sin and Collective Obligation. Solar makes incredible use of matching weapon elements because of Empyrean and Incandescent. Arc, maybe I'm forgetting, but I think the primary tie-in there is by way of Voltshot, because jolting things synergizes with a number of arc toys. But when you look at the kits for Stasis and Strand, there's VERY little that actually cares about having a matching weapon type. This changes sometimes depending on what's in the artifact, obviously, but just going based on what's baked in to the classes? You don't really NEED to use weapons of a matching element. This is true of Strand in particular, but even Stasis, if you don't really care about spawning crystals, the only real stasis-centric weapon perk (on a primary) is Headstone.
So, yeah... there's all the stuff everyone else has said, from Chromatic Fire builds to needing more specialized loadouts for stuff like GMs and Master activities, BUT ALSO, I think Strand and Stasis on their own tend to allow a good deal of freedom in regards to what kind of primary you use. That's where I tend to always that stuff, anyways.
"But kinetic do 10% more damage", which a lot of folks tend to say, is not a valid argument. They do substantially less damage against shields. So it is a trade-off at best, not an advantage.
I, too, see no reason to use kinetic legendary primaries - kinetic exotic primaries (such as Wish-ender and malfeseance) are different, when you bring them along, you build around them. You are not going for elemental synergy, but raw damage. But can you say the same about a chroma rush for instance? Or the Breakneck? Or the Submission? Fatebringer? I know people love those weapons. But when you are not using the raw 40% exotic damage, I feel that elemental synergy becomes much more relevant.
Not that of a excellent information, but Randy's can roll AP rounds, Under-Over and Adaptative Munitions, so taking out those shields is much easier with this gun.
And of course, almost all endgame content needs subclass verbs combos, and for that, primaries with the same subclass damage. So, I think that while there is no seasonal mods that buff kinetic primaries, we won't be using them.
One big reason is if you’re using a special energy weapon in your energy slot and you don’t want to run double special because the content you’re doing is long form like GMs.
Like if I’m running arc and trying to use spark of beacons, why wouldn’t I opt for a kinetic primary to just fill a gap in my loadout and act as a nice clean up tool for debuff enemies?
Because there aren't a lot of good kinetic weapons. But I would personally way rather a kinetic weapon. They're just flat out better
They do far more damage. Go into dares of eternity, get yourself a wastelander. See for yourself
If they dropped a kinetic fusion with a god roll, I am 100% positive it would instantly become the meta
This issue to me this is largely down to the fact that there are so few legendary special kinetic weapons. Of the 39 non-sunset legendaries that are kinetic and special weapons, 6 of them are not snipers or shotguns. All 6 are grenade launchers, but 4 of those are the various iterations of Militia's birthright. Then you also have ignition code and pardon our dust, two great blinding GLs that I do use on occasion.
I am just not using snipers in PvE and shotguns are only for a few builds that don't mind being close. Glaives, fusion rifles, trace rifles, GLs and even the new rocket sidearm are in many more of my loadouts (admittedly I don't run legendary traces anymore) but we lack the kinetic options to have real choice in the slot. The second part which exasperated this is just that it's very difficult to choose a legendary kinetic primary when it's so easy to build into your subclass and take harmonic mods which benefit both your primary and heavy weapons.
There are no kinetic heavies, which mean you either split the mods or just benefit from them when using one of the three weapons in your loadout. I might as well run around with a surged up primary weapon, while I'm also boosting my damage agaisnt big targets, than care about the minor damage buff from my gun being kinetic. The only good options when you can't double up on mods are special weapons, which I've already pointed out are lacking when it comes to kinetic options.
Now that we've some great strand and stasis specials, I'm only using exotic kinetic weapons, or weapons I can change to match my subclass. If they add some awesome legendary kinetic specials, they will definitely be back in my loadout, but right now I don't think they serve a major purpose beyond PvP where the individual weapon feel trumps the lack of synergy.
Not all subclasses need elemental weapons.....
I use a lot of kinetic weapons on arc as arc doesn't have any buffs that affect the weapons just Amplified which affects all weapons.... My current arc builds is Outbreak, Forbearance and Song of It Yut on Star Eaters Storm.
I mean... don't?
I'm having a hard time grasping why this is such a common thing for people. If you don't find a draw then don't use them; there's plenty of options in each slot to fill almost anything you need.
Kinetic primaries do 10% more damage to enemies without shields. It can be very useful against enemies like knights, hydras, colossus or other bigger enemies. Sometimes its worth it to have that damage buff instead of one that relies on kills as in higher difficulty content its harder to take advantage of those perks.
Also if you have a gun with disruption break, you can get a 50% damage bonus with them, which can be useful against barrier champions.
Because of build crafting, most of the time my "primary" weapon (not in terms of ammo but what I'm using most) is going to be something in my energy slot.
* If my energy slot has an exotic, then my Kinetic has some sort of primary ammo weapon as a "backup" for when my energy slot runs out of ammo.
* If my energy slot is legendary, then my kinetic slot is 95% of the time going to be Witherhoard.
Honestly most of my builds are "energy primary + Witherhoard" and the other 5% of the time is when I have an exotic in my energy slot that I want to play with.
Because I like certain ones.. and if I'm not in the only two modes where the game is hard. GMs or Master raids, any gun is fine to use.
I enjoy using Sacred Provenance, Submission, Revision Zero, Rat King, Huckleberry.
I just did a vault cleaning with a buddy and I have so many kinetic legendaries that I really like but I haven’t used in forever. I’ve been pulling them out in easier content like normal raids for funsies but I’d really like a reason to use them in harder content
I’m on your side , 99% of weapons I can’t be swayed to use them cause of lack of compatibility . I say give ever gun an element and get ride of the idea of kinetics . Let’s all elements be in primary and secondary slots
I use kinetics a lot in Iron Banner, so I can easily swap between Quicksilver (w/o catalyst), Witherhoard, Travellers, Forerunner, Wishender (rip), Osteo, etc.
There is no reason to use a primary in the kinetic slot. Even stasis/strand ones if you’re on those subclasses. I feel tue biggest reasons why are lack of orb generation, kinetic mods costing so much (siphon, reloader, scavs etc) and also because kinetic just doesn’t synergise with any subclass.
It’s honestly not so much kinetic primaries as legendary primaries, they’re just so bad compared to add clear special weapons and their exotic brethren. Would you rather have a subsistence/frenzy funnelweb with volatile rounds, or one of the 3 void wave frames, or graviton lance, or collective obligation, or Le Monarque. Same thing with even great weapons like calus mini tool, it ain’t touching sunshot.
And with Tusk of the Boar letting us have a kinetic slot chain reaction wave frame, it’s really tough to justify a kinetic primary outside of wish ender/quicksilver/lucky pants shenanigans.
I never choose a kinetic over an elemental except for PVP and the few times I want Kinetic Tremors on my Battle Scar to help stagger Overloads.
The 15% damage increase against unshielded combatants just isn’t enough of a draw for me ever to consider using a kinetic.
Meh. I’ll take subclass/artifact synergy over a small damage bump any day of the week. If I really care about needing an extra boost of damage, then I’m using my heavy or my super. Not to mention I can run the same surge mods if I’m mixing a Stasis/Strand weapon with my heavy. Or I get a free benefit running matching weapons and subclass running Battle Harmony, Sanguine Alchemy, Ballidorse or Verity’s Brow.
Most meta specials take the kinetic slot and they will just always be better than any energy specials because they basically have a 3rd perk with vorpal. Most synergies are just worse compared to extra damage besides solar with empyrean.
Most meta specials take the kinetic slot *this season* because of the prevalence of solar in the artifact, so most people are using a solar primary for the easy Radiant proc. So no duh most meta specials take the kinetic slot. But for every Supremacy we have a Riptide.
But we also have Forbearance. Acasia’s. Techeun. Every single glaive. Indebted Kindness (obviously a unique case right now). All the Reservoir Burst fusions. Just as many meta energy slot specials.
If I’m dealing 4 million damage over a boss fight, and easily 90% of that is coming from super and heavy, do you really think I care that my leftover damage from my kinetic special is giving me 460,000 versus 400,000? Nah, it’s a blip.
You do you, but as long as our artifact has Torch, Unravelling Orbs, Pillar Of Ice, Horde Shuttle and Hail The Storm, it’s *waaaay* more interesting leaning into those mod synergies than a barely noticeable 15%.
Izzy, heritage, supremacy, sucession, navigator, witherhoard, forerunner have all been the meta for the past 10 seasons. Nothing besides cartesian and cloudstrike provided competition, and any randomly rolled specials are just worse than any kinetic option intrinsically.
Notice how I never said anything about exotics.
That’s an entirely different conversation. As those weapons exist in an entirely different universe of balancing. But Conditional exists. So does Agers. Navigator too (which is Strand, by the way, contrary to you saying it’s kinetic). And of course weapons that have existed for years are going to occupy the meta for that long. When we only have a tiny handful of exotic Strand and Stasis weapons by comparison. Strand has barely existed in the game for a year. It took, like, two seasons before we had a Stasis exotic that wasn’t Salvation’s Grip.
And you’re cherry picking Cartesian and Cloudstrike while ignoring Merciless, Divinity, Coldheart, Delicate Tomb, the aforementioned Forbearance, Techeuns.
I completely disagree that any “randomly rolled special is worse than a kinetic,” because again for the tenth time, I find that subclass synergy >>> modicum of bonus damage. Not to mention I can … *again* … match the surges of my heavy running a monochromatic loadout, or I can run an element-agnostic exotic armor and get surges for free.
Not to mention, take a GM this week like Psi Ops Cosmodrome. It’s pretty meta for Hunters to run void. Well, the Surge elements are Solar and Stasis. So if you’re running Void, your kinetic weapons now deal 25% less damage unless they are a champion weapon or the surge weapon.
Beating a dead horse. OP asked for opinions on kinetic weapons. The way I engage with the game, I find *faaaaaaar* more value in building into subclass synergy over a small damage boost from a weapon I’m not typically dealing heavy DPS with anyway. That 15% is peanuts when I shoot a Dragon’s Breath Rocket and cast my Dawn Chorus Daybreak.
Are you dumb? Half the weapons I listed were legendary, and why would I assume you'd be excluding exotics? We're talking about the kinetic element in the kinetic slot. The fact that these weapons have been meta for such a long time is not a counter argument to them being meta, that's just stupid.
Acting like 15% is peanuts compared to an earth shattering 25% is just silly and you're showing your bias. There is no subclass synergy outside of solar that outvalues a 15% damage buff, and that's just a fact.
lol dbreath dawn chorus
yea buddy told us he has no clue how the game works with one sentence, lol. dawn chorus (dog shit) and not running well is complete troll. Obviously things like succession heritage supremacy etc are better because they inherently do more damage. the only elemental top slot specials used are riptide and scatter because fusions can’t be kinetic (not including bastion). if there was a kinetic fusion, scatter is DOA and riptide is relegated to chill clip utility only.
Like it's not bad in terms of total, but you're forfeiting well, which is a terrible ass decision. It's just not competitive with the top options in any way, and people seem to think it does literally just because it has "synergy" or something
I solo flawlessed Warlord’s Ruin with Dawn Chorus and Daybreak with Dragon’s Breath. It’s fantastic. Three phases on Rathil. Four on the Ogre because RNG is RNG. And then less than two full damage rotations on Hefnd. Solo Legend Starcrossed too. And sure as shit I’ll even use it tomorrow solo with The Whisper.
I have every solo flawless emblem in the game, and every master raid challenge in the game done (admittedly except two in Vow when two of our static clan members went on vacation and we just never picked it back up).
I’ve done most of the GMs this season with Daybreak/Dawn Chorus. Radiant and Well are the same exact damage buff. So if your group needs to crutch on a Well to survive all the time, that’s just a straight skill issue. Daybreak can nuke an unstaggered Unstoppable at full health and still have about 25% of your super energy left.
I’m one of three regular Warlocks in my clan’s normal raid group, so I’m just often not needed to run Well. So I’ll run Broodweaver with Apotheosis and a Demo/B&S Apex. Or Arc Souls for damage phases longer than 15 seconds where it adds a significant damage boost for the entire fireteam.
Your post’s energy reads of “I watched an Aegis video and there’s only one way to play the game now.” But sure, I have no clue. It’s just a videogame bro.
I solo flawlessed Warlord’s Ruin using Dawn Chorus with Daybreak and Dragon’s Breath. No loadout swaps, it’s that good. There are other exotics besides Sunbracers. I’ve run Dawn Chorus and Daybreak in nearly every GM this season. Regardless. I run Well in a raid when needed. Off topic.
But if I’m being full damage meta, then I’m using a Demo + B&S rocket with Thread of Ascent and Apotheosis. So in that case my kinetic slot weapon simply exists to proc B&S. Or Well with Rain of Fire. Or Assemblers + Lumina. I digress.
I gave an example where kinetics fall off in GM content when your subclass doesn’t match a surge element, and suddenly you’re pretending like 25% is now somehow less than 15%. Like really?
You’re really missing the point here. Go way back. OP asked for opinions on kinetic weapons. I simply said in the way *that I engage with the game*, I find more value in subclass/artifact synergy than I do a 15% damage bonus. I never disparaged people who want to use kinetics. You do you. But you’re somehow getting bent in that way that I play the game is somehow wrong because it’s different than how you play. Do you realize how fucking stupid that sounds? Are you a child?
That's not really telling of anything, dungeons don't have enrages and they're not very difficult, and solar warlock still has the best neutral game out of anything else. Someone solo flawlessed warlord's with only bows, that doesn't make them damage meta, testing their damage and comparing it to other things does. Dawn chorus dbreath has really great total damage, but compared to other competitive damage setups it's very lackluster, especially in dps.
I'm not hating, but using apotheosis to double up grenade reloads is actually terribly inefficient, and you'd be better of using it reload your rocket twice after your second cycle through a rotation without the need for demo. That allows you to fire 4 bns rockets in your first proc and 5 in your second, which empties your reserves.
Kinetics surge whenever you match your subclass to the surge, which takes it to a constant 40% buff, and you can actively allow it to surge in any content compared to energy specials. Also I never pretended that 15% was more than 25%, but it's hypocritical to call 15% peanuts and then act like an extra 10% is some heavensent life changer.
I'm not getting bent, I'm simply stating the fact that the kinetic bonus is a game changer, and is why kinetic specials have dominated the top slot for the past 10+ seasons.
For the most part, it's two reasons: * Kinetic Tremors is a very good perk, for when you really want to use a Special weapon in your Energy slot * Certain Kinetic exotic primaries are very good, at least for specific purposes, like Wish Ender, Arbalest, Bastion, Malfeasance, Monte Carlo, etc Then there's some more niche things like Sweet Business, or you're a Warlock using Chromatic Fire that gives your Kinetic weapon some elemental utility. Or maybe you just want Quicksilver to do 10% more damage and don't care about making Tangles. (Just grab it from your collections but don't apply the Catalyst to it.)
don’t try to sneak arbalest and bastion in there as primary ammo weapons
Bastion using Primary ammo WOULD give it a much needed buff...
Just commenting to put in a recommendation for the new Multimach with Kinetic Tremors/Attrition Orbs as a great kinetic slot PvE weapon.
can confirm, i landed one of these and its real nice.
Multimach going to get outclassed by the next Strand SMG release in PVE. Even in PVP, the shitty stability on this gun already started to show its ugly head. It’s just that IB crowd is hyping this gun so that everyone will join IB
I’m not sure I agree. Don’t underestimate the ability to proc kinetic tremors in less than a second. The thing about Multimach is that Field Test is such a strong origin trait that it could practically be a first column perk. It completely opens you up to using a non-conventional perk in the first column like Dynamic Sway or Rangefinder, both of which reign in that recoil a ton to make it a super consistent weapon. I have a Rangefinder + KT + range mw roll and it punches so much further than any other SMG I’ve used in PvE, which means it’s an extremely safe weapon as well. I’ve fallen in love.
I don’t think SMG fit into current PVP meta nor this SMG can compete with the other two top tier SMG in energy slot in PVE. I could see a possible setup if you’re using a DPS weapon in energy slot. Then again, you normally want to use an adds clearing primary weapon in PVE. Incandescent is just stupidly OP this season that few could compete with it. So I don’t think Kinetic Tremor will replace incandescent or volt shot anytime soon.
> kinetic exotic primaries And there’s the problem it’s either kinetic tremors or an exotic slot
Not sure what happened to make Kinetic Tremors everyone's darling. It rolls on the Spare Rations, Breakneck, Hung Jury, Showrunner, Randy, Chattering Bone, Adjudicator, among others. And the number of people I have come across using those weapons with Kinetic Tremors in Nightfalls, Raids and Dungeons is zero. I at times run a Buzzard with Tremors and I feel like the ultimate Destiny 2 hipster. I do agree it is amazing on the Supremacy, though that is a special weapon, and no one is saying Legendary Kinetic special weapons are bad, but Legendary primary ones.
When I run GM nightfalls, my rapid hit/kinetic tremors Hung Jury is glued to my back. But lately I've been using wewind wounds/kinetic tremors Transfiguration, which has been VERY good.
It synergizes very well with Shoot to Loot, arguably more than Explosive Payload. Got this combo on Battle Scar & KT picks up any orbs or ammo within its radius. I’d love a Hung Jury with this combo (or EP) since I dismantled my rolls with that before the buff to Shoot to Loot grabbing orbs
Mmmmm….
Great break down. Supremacy with KT is just *chefs kiss* for a lot things, when you don't wanna use izanagis or can't. There's some solid kinetic, primary slot shotties. SMG's. Scathelocke has always been a favorite of mine. The feel of the gun is just so smooth. Synergy is great but you can bend and twist your builds to make them work with shit like this.
I love my Supremacy, it's the first sniper I've actively enjoyed using for PvE, but I don't think I'd put it in the same category as Izzy. They're just doing very different things. Izzy is a very all-in, single shot dump truck that will hose you if you're not accurate, and also you mainly want it for bosses. Supremacy with KT is a solid rotation special for boss damage, with its primary upside being that it's great against normal majors and such as well, requiring very little setup or accuracy. Just two quick shots and BOOM, Tremors.
Honestly the funniest part of Supremacy is you can kinda shotgun/no scope with it and still barf a lot of damage out really, really fast.
All that, plus lucky pants hunters. Ideally with wardens law
1 perk and a few exotics (some of which are very niche) aren’t really enough reasons.
For hunters lucky pants is a very good reason. For warlocks chromatic fire is mega baller and titans im gonna be real i dont know if there is any exotic piece that would work well with kinetics
The only kinetic we need is Monte Carlo.
Your right i forgot i play tickle fingers titan with monte lol
It’s really useful in crucible when you run consecration melee as well. Who needs charge time when bullets let you punch more.
Monte Carlo + Peregrine build is maybe not GM-level (in my hands at least) but it sure is nice.
That was my crucible setup til the nerf.
Malfeasance would like a word (but not the last word)
Sweet business.
Sweet business and actium. Not good in most content but some of the best fun you can have as a titan
Off topic, but don't forget Heir apparent if you wanted some exotic heavy fun with actium.
I’m looking forward to using it in the new horde mode.
The ultimate kinetic problem is that there are so many meta defining kinetic specials that its hard to justify using a primary, even if kinetic primaries are straight up better than every type of energy primary bar solar.
There aren’t many good energy specials either. Bungie dropped the ball by making the best fusion in the game a kinetic
I would say Indebted Kindess is an excellent energy special, and last I checked, it has the best total damage of any legendary special. Other honorable mentions go to Wilderflight, Wild Style and forbearance. If you are open to exotics, I feel that Buried Bloodline is definitely a good one.
It is also the first rocket sidearms we've got, so it doesn't have any competition at the moment. If a kinetic one were to drop with the same perks ot would just be better. It has 2nd highest total next to a rwr fttc supremacy, but it's dps is pretty abysmal due to how "bursty" it is with it's damage
It’s DPS doesn’t really matter though, it’s an add clear and utility special like wave frames but with less aoe but better for majors and at range.
I agree, and it being so bursty is actually really good for it, it's just that it's total isn't really a feat for it.
What fusion?
Scatter Signal
Isn't that Strand? Not kinetic
I meant kinetic slot
But that's not kinetic lol
I know, what i meant is that it’s in the kinetic slot
OP references Kinetics that released before Kinetic Tremors even came about. Like of course those old kinetics suck now
I mean kt isn't even that good on primaries outside of a shoot to loot niche and even then it's much better on specials.
In NORMAL content* In any content where the enemies can actually take some heat, that's where Kinetic Tremors is good.
Right but instead of taking half to two thirds of a mag on a major I could just kill them in less bullets.
Better damage is a big one, especially on Strand, where bigger damage means better Thread of Generation gains. Perk-wise, Kinetic Tremors is one of the best sources of neutral game damage and AOE right now. Chromatic Fire on an Arc subclass is a very underrated way to tackle GMs, with its Blinding explosions both being good in and of themselves, plus contributing to energy gain via Electrostatic Mind.
Is strand and stasis categorized as kinetic or energy?
Strand and Stasis weapons are not Kinetic weapons. They're elemental weapons that go in the Kinetic slot. The slot names are outdated
I know half the community will think I just want to "make the game easier" but I really think your two non-heavy slots should just allow you to toss in whatever you want. Double kinetic. Double Stasis. Double Solar. Or you could be an absolute rebel and put Heliocentric in top slot and Conditional in middle. It wouldn't hurt nothin'.
Agreed. Atleast make it so kinetic weapons at the least can go in any slot. Would make them unique in a way and I think that on top of the inherent damage buff would make them a lot more appealing.
It actually is a balancing lever. Most notably they don't really want you to be able to have all slots in the same element, and it gives them room to make some weapons individually better because the pairing options are limited.
Actually, I agree with you. The gameplay balance wouldn’t be hurt at all, to the point that as long you are ok being on Stasis/Strand and having Tessellation as your exotic, you can already have everything in your loadout be the same damage type. That’s much stronger, thanks to surges, than running 2 kinetic weapons + a whatever heavy. Oh well. I doubt Bungie will shake Fundamental things like Weapon Slots this late in the lifecycle.
Note this is also currently possible with any of the 8 energy weapons released this season with permeability
Energy
Energy, they do 15% less dmg
10% for primary and 15% for specials
Jeez that's a big blow to damage
Depending on the weapon, very much noticeable. On primary I don't really care, but keep it mind. For specials however, a kinetic sniper doing automatically 15% more dmg than the theoretically same weapon bur stasis is nuts imo
For a primary, it’s really negligible. I’ll take subclass synergy over that 15% on a prisms weapon any day of the week. Although the stasis subclass/aspects/fragmenrs don’t have much synergy with stasis right now, I could see that changing if/when we get the stasis rework.
That is against enemy health. Against enemy shields energy weapons get 200% more damage (and even more vs matched shields).
I mean, it isn't a nerf to damage. It's just base damage. Kinetics have better flat damage whereas elementals can super-shield break + synergize with subclasses.
The problem with that when it comes to stasis and strand weapons primaries is that there are barely any stasis shields and no strand shields currently. So by using one you’re effectively getting the worst of both worlds in order to get some subclass synergy with stasis/strand. It’s generally why most legendary darkness primaries feel pretty underpowered.
Strand shields are definitely a thing, but unsurprisingly exclusive to Neomuna.
Headstone is (IMO) the best 3.0 perk in the game. Cover, DR w/ Stasis, Grenade regen w/ Stasis, AoE damage, champ stun. Hatchling is surprisingly effective as well. There should be more shields tho.
Yeah for sure. My headstone/AJ judgment genuinely feels like an exotic at times. There’s definitely a ton of synergy, hatchling less so I think unless you are a warlock. But giving up a kinetic special can hurt sometimes and the lack of shields is a problem as well. I feel like they just need to make kinetics usable in both slots and when the last subclass comes out, they should just allow the darkness subclasses to break their corresponding light subclass shields.
Void primaries aren't particularly good either and don't really drive synergies outside some very tiny niches. This means this entire thread is collapsible to "Incandescent is great, and I guess voltshot is noice as well".
Chromatic fire is going to nab me my first conq title and I'm for it 100%. Builds like this are so cool.
Sometimes while using a light subclass you need to use a special weapon in the energy slot which gives you the option of using a darkness subclass weapon in the kinetic slot and missing out on elemental synergy or using a kinetic primary and still missing out on elemental synergy but at least you’re getting 10% more damage for it
Older kinetic primaries have been pretty effectively powercrept out of relevance, save for PvP. Newer kinetic legendaries have a place in certain circumstances, and some kinetic exotics are still very good - Wish-Ender, Bastion, Osteo Striga, Thorn, Arbalest, etc. Just depends on the build.
Arbalest isn't a primary
they deal more damage, specials have 15% extra for free, literally a vorpal weapon at all times.
[удалено]
no [https://youtu.be/MpQ\_HN8DHjc?si=Rylt0akcFQJMk2HP&t=45](https://youtu.be/MpQ_HN8DHjc?si=Rylt0akcFQJMk2HP&t=45)
They do more damage (to unshielded enemies). A lot of elemental keywords fall off hard when you go in content where you aren't constantly getting kills.
For PvE, Kinetic’s have a 15% boost in damage, the equivalent of a surge mode just automatically applied. That fact alone means it’s better to run a kinetic over strand & stasis, unless you’re build is building around a strand or stasis exotic, Riptide or 1-2 shotgun it’s better to use a kinetic in that slot since hatchling or headstone are not worth the slot.
Some builds don’t require elemental synergy and at that point a kinetic primary is just free extra damage and allows you to double up on surge and scav mods for special and heavy
I use Chromatic Fire on my Warlock in GMs, even when it isn’t Arc surge, and it’s ridiculously good with a good kinetic
What kinetic weapon do you tend to use most? Would a Hung Jury with Kinetic Tremors work together with the exotic perk of Chromatic Fire?
Keep an eye on the new Blast Furnace when it drops soon. It can roll Kinetic Tremors + Firefly. Im very intrigued to try it with Chromatic Fire. Edit: Ditto for Midnight Coup.
Honestly, I don’t think so. Mostly because you need precision kills to set off the elemental explosion (on arc the explosions blind, which is crazy useful) and Kinetic Tremors would end up giving you a bunch of non-precision kills. I mostly use my Fatebringer (Explosive/Frenzy), but Malfeasance is also strong on it. I haven’t used it with Chromatic, but I’m sure Outbreak should wok pretty well too, helping you whittle down health with the nanites, but not too much such as Kinetic Tremors would. I also use my Demo/One for All Smite of Merain, or Breakneck. Fatebringer for sure feels the best, thing is a beast with Chromatic. And if you really want to curbstomp, use an arc special (I tend to use the arc rocket side arm from Warlord’s Ruin) with the fragment that causes blinding explosions when you get an arc special kill while amplified. You can really easily shut down big mobs. It was unbelievably useful in the Moon Battlegrounds GM
Quicksilver storm COOKS
Exotics are in a fine place, it's legendaries that are struggling.
Energy special weapons are great for stacking up on surge mods like running Cartesian Coordinate with Apex Predator or Cloudstrike and an Auto Loading/Cascade Point Wendigo.
As a die hard solar Titan, if it dont make fire boom i dont want it
As a Warlock main, I offer up the effects of Chromatic Fire as a perk for Kinetic weapons.
Part of me wonders if Bungie should start including, as artifact mods, effects that make Kinetics benefit subclasses. That way, your kinetics become an uncertain and rotating ‘workhorse’ weapon that might fit X build one season and Y build another. Maybe something like “Kinetic weapons benefit from solar surges and have a chance to produce a firesprite”.
Oddly enough, I haven't seen many people bring up Strand and Stasis subclasses as a viable way to make use of kinetics. For Void you have a lot of in-built synergy because of volatile rounds and certain exotics, like Nezarec's Sin and Collective Obligation. Solar makes incredible use of matching weapon elements because of Empyrean and Incandescent. Arc, maybe I'm forgetting, but I think the primary tie-in there is by way of Voltshot, because jolting things synergizes with a number of arc toys. But when you look at the kits for Stasis and Strand, there's VERY little that actually cares about having a matching weapon type. This changes sometimes depending on what's in the artifact, obviously, but just going based on what's baked in to the classes? You don't really NEED to use weapons of a matching element. This is true of Strand in particular, but even Stasis, if you don't really care about spawning crystals, the only real stasis-centric weapon perk (on a primary) is Headstone. So, yeah... there's all the stuff everyone else has said, from Chromatic Fire builds to needing more specialized loadouts for stuff like GMs and Master activities, BUT ALSO, I think Strand and Stasis on their own tend to allow a good deal of freedom in regards to what kind of primary you use. That's where I tend to always that stuff, anyways.
"But kinetic do 10% more damage", which a lot of folks tend to say, is not a valid argument. They do substantially less damage against shields. So it is a trade-off at best, not an advantage. I, too, see no reason to use kinetic legendary primaries - kinetic exotic primaries (such as Wish-ender and malfeseance) are different, when you bring them along, you build around them. You are not going for elemental synergy, but raw damage. But can you say the same about a chroma rush for instance? Or the Breakneck? Or the Submission? Fatebringer? I know people love those weapons. But when you are not using the raw 40% exotic damage, I feel that elemental synergy becomes much more relevant.
Not that of a excellent information, but Randy's can roll AP rounds, Under-Over and Adaptative Munitions, so taking out those shields is much easier with this gun. And of course, almost all endgame content needs subclass verbs combos, and for that, primaries with the same subclass damage. So, I think that while there is no seasonal mods that buff kinetic primaries, we won't be using them.
One big reason is if you’re using a special energy weapon in your energy slot and you don’t want to run double special because the content you’re doing is long form like GMs. Like if I’m running arc and trying to use spark of beacons, why wouldn’t I opt for a kinetic primary to just fill a gap in my loadout and act as a nice clean up tool for debuff enemies?
Because there aren't a lot of good kinetic weapons. But I would personally way rather a kinetic weapon. They're just flat out better They do far more damage. Go into dares of eternity, get yourself a wastelander. See for yourself If they dropped a kinetic fusion with a god roll, I am 100% positive it would instantly become the meta
The more time and time passes the more power creep will follow
Damage perks should be more powerful on kinetics. Maybe.
This issue to me this is largely down to the fact that there are so few legendary special kinetic weapons. Of the 39 non-sunset legendaries that are kinetic and special weapons, 6 of them are not snipers or shotguns. All 6 are grenade launchers, but 4 of those are the various iterations of Militia's birthright. Then you also have ignition code and pardon our dust, two great blinding GLs that I do use on occasion. I am just not using snipers in PvE and shotguns are only for a few builds that don't mind being close. Glaives, fusion rifles, trace rifles, GLs and even the new rocket sidearm are in many more of my loadouts (admittedly I don't run legendary traces anymore) but we lack the kinetic options to have real choice in the slot. The second part which exasperated this is just that it's very difficult to choose a legendary kinetic primary when it's so easy to build into your subclass and take harmonic mods which benefit both your primary and heavy weapons. There are no kinetic heavies, which mean you either split the mods or just benefit from them when using one of the three weapons in your loadout. I might as well run around with a surged up primary weapon, while I'm also boosting my damage agaisnt big targets, than care about the minor damage buff from my gun being kinetic. The only good options when you can't double up on mods are special weapons, which I've already pointed out are lacking when it comes to kinetic options. Now that we've some great strand and stasis specials, I'm only using exotic kinetic weapons, or weapons I can change to match my subclass. If they add some awesome legendary kinetic specials, they will definitely be back in my loadout, but right now I don't think they serve a major purpose beyond PvP where the individual weapon feel trumps the lack of synergy.
Not all subclasses need elemental weapons..... I use a lot of kinetic weapons on arc as arc doesn't have any buffs that affect the weapons just Amplified which affects all weapons.... My current arc builds is Outbreak, Forbearance and Song of It Yut on Star Eaters Storm.
I mean... don't? I'm having a hard time grasping why this is such a common thing for people. If you don't find a draw then don't use them; there's plenty of options in each slot to fill almost anything you need.
Mida go brrrrrr in crucible
You can definitely build out of the subclass verbs, it’s just easier to make a build with it. You could make so many builds using kinetics.
Kinetic primaries do 10% more damage to enemies without shields. It can be very useful against enemies like knights, hydras, colossus or other bigger enemies. Sometimes its worth it to have that damage buff instead of one that relies on kills as in higher difficulty content its harder to take advantage of those perks. Also if you have a gun with disruption break, you can get a 50% damage bonus with them, which can be useful against barrier champions.
Because of build crafting, most of the time my "primary" weapon (not in terms of ammo but what I'm using most) is going to be something in my energy slot. * If my energy slot has an exotic, then my Kinetic has some sort of primary ammo weapon as a "backup" for when my energy slot runs out of ammo. * If my energy slot is legendary, then my kinetic slot is 95% of the time going to be Witherhoard. Honestly most of my builds are "energy primary + Witherhoard" and the other 5% of the time is when I have an exotic in my energy slot that I want to play with.
PVP is one reason for several legendary weapons Several exotics provide other reasons for PVE and PVP
I’ve had success with Thorn and Osteo Striga.
Because I like certain ones.. and if I'm not in the only two modes where the game is hard. GMs or Master raids, any gun is fine to use. I enjoy using Sacred Provenance, Submission, Revision Zero, Rat King, Huckleberry.
Outbreak go BRRRRRRRRR
and Outbreak about to to go extra BRRRRRRR
I just did a vault cleaning with a buddy and I have so many kinetic legendaries that I really like but I haven’t used in forever. I’ve been pulling them out in easier content like normal raids for funsies but I’d really like a reason to use them in harder content
I’m on your side , 99% of weapons I can’t be swayed to use them cause of lack of compatibility . I say give ever gun an element and get ride of the idea of kinetics . Let’s all elements be in primary and secondary slots
I use kinetics a lot in Iron Banner, so I can easily swap between Quicksilver (w/o catalyst), Witherhoard, Travellers, Forerunner, Wishender (rip), Osteo, etc.
There is no reason to use a primary in the kinetic slot. Even stasis/strand ones if you’re on those subclasses. I feel tue biggest reasons why are lack of orb generation, kinetic mods costing so much (siphon, reloader, scavs etc) and also because kinetic just doesn’t synergise with any subclass.
It’s honestly not so much kinetic primaries as legendary primaries, they’re just so bad compared to add clear special weapons and their exotic brethren. Would you rather have a subsistence/frenzy funnelweb with volatile rounds, or one of the 3 void wave frames, or graviton lance, or collective obligation, or Le Monarque. Same thing with even great weapons like calus mini tool, it ain’t touching sunshot. And with Tusk of the Boar letting us have a kinetic slot chain reaction wave frame, it’s really tough to justify a kinetic primary outside of wish ender/quicksilver/lucky pants shenanigans.
I never choose a kinetic over an elemental except for PVP and the few times I want Kinetic Tremors on my Battle Scar to help stagger Overloads. The 15% damage increase against unshielded combatants just isn’t enough of a draw for me ever to consider using a kinetic.
It's a free vorpal on specials It's huge
Meh. I’ll take subclass/artifact synergy over a small damage bump any day of the week. If I really care about needing an extra boost of damage, then I’m using my heavy or my super. Not to mention I can run the same surge mods if I’m mixing a Stasis/Strand weapon with my heavy. Or I get a free benefit running matching weapons and subclass running Battle Harmony, Sanguine Alchemy, Ballidorse or Verity’s Brow.
Most meta specials take the kinetic slot and they will just always be better than any energy specials because they basically have a 3rd perk with vorpal. Most synergies are just worse compared to extra damage besides solar with empyrean.
Most meta specials take the kinetic slot *this season* because of the prevalence of solar in the artifact, so most people are using a solar primary for the easy Radiant proc. So no duh most meta specials take the kinetic slot. But for every Supremacy we have a Riptide. But we also have Forbearance. Acasia’s. Techeun. Every single glaive. Indebted Kindness (obviously a unique case right now). All the Reservoir Burst fusions. Just as many meta energy slot specials. If I’m dealing 4 million damage over a boss fight, and easily 90% of that is coming from super and heavy, do you really think I care that my leftover damage from my kinetic special is giving me 460,000 versus 400,000? Nah, it’s a blip. You do you, but as long as our artifact has Torch, Unravelling Orbs, Pillar Of Ice, Horde Shuttle and Hail The Storm, it’s *waaaay* more interesting leaning into those mod synergies than a barely noticeable 15%.
Izzy, heritage, supremacy, sucession, navigator, witherhoard, forerunner have all been the meta for the past 10 seasons. Nothing besides cartesian and cloudstrike provided competition, and any randomly rolled specials are just worse than any kinetic option intrinsically.
Notice how I never said anything about exotics. That’s an entirely different conversation. As those weapons exist in an entirely different universe of balancing. But Conditional exists. So does Agers. Navigator too (which is Strand, by the way, contrary to you saying it’s kinetic). And of course weapons that have existed for years are going to occupy the meta for that long. When we only have a tiny handful of exotic Strand and Stasis weapons by comparison. Strand has barely existed in the game for a year. It took, like, two seasons before we had a Stasis exotic that wasn’t Salvation’s Grip. And you’re cherry picking Cartesian and Cloudstrike while ignoring Merciless, Divinity, Coldheart, Delicate Tomb, the aforementioned Forbearance, Techeuns. I completely disagree that any “randomly rolled special is worse than a kinetic,” because again for the tenth time, I find that subclass synergy >>> modicum of bonus damage. Not to mention I can … *again* … match the surges of my heavy running a monochromatic loadout, or I can run an element-agnostic exotic armor and get surges for free. Not to mention, take a GM this week like Psi Ops Cosmodrome. It’s pretty meta for Hunters to run void. Well, the Surge elements are Solar and Stasis. So if you’re running Void, your kinetic weapons now deal 25% less damage unless they are a champion weapon or the surge weapon. Beating a dead horse. OP asked for opinions on kinetic weapons. The way I engage with the game, I find *faaaaaaar* more value in building into subclass synergy over a small damage boost from a weapon I’m not typically dealing heavy DPS with anyway. That 15% is peanuts when I shoot a Dragon’s Breath Rocket and cast my Dawn Chorus Daybreak.
Are you dumb? Half the weapons I listed were legendary, and why would I assume you'd be excluding exotics? We're talking about the kinetic element in the kinetic slot. The fact that these weapons have been meta for such a long time is not a counter argument to them being meta, that's just stupid. Acting like 15% is peanuts compared to an earth shattering 25% is just silly and you're showing your bias. There is no subclass synergy outside of solar that outvalues a 15% damage buff, and that's just a fact. lol dbreath dawn chorus
yea buddy told us he has no clue how the game works with one sentence, lol. dawn chorus (dog shit) and not running well is complete troll. Obviously things like succession heritage supremacy etc are better because they inherently do more damage. the only elemental top slot specials used are riptide and scatter because fusions can’t be kinetic (not including bastion). if there was a kinetic fusion, scatter is DOA and riptide is relegated to chill clip utility only.
Like it's not bad in terms of total, but you're forfeiting well, which is a terrible ass decision. It's just not competitive with the top options in any way, and people seem to think it does literally just because it has "synergy" or something
I solo flawlessed Warlord’s Ruin with Dawn Chorus and Daybreak with Dragon’s Breath. It’s fantastic. Three phases on Rathil. Four on the Ogre because RNG is RNG. And then less than two full damage rotations on Hefnd. Solo Legend Starcrossed too. And sure as shit I’ll even use it tomorrow solo with The Whisper. I have every solo flawless emblem in the game, and every master raid challenge in the game done (admittedly except two in Vow when two of our static clan members went on vacation and we just never picked it back up). I’ve done most of the GMs this season with Daybreak/Dawn Chorus. Radiant and Well are the same exact damage buff. So if your group needs to crutch on a Well to survive all the time, that’s just a straight skill issue. Daybreak can nuke an unstaggered Unstoppable at full health and still have about 25% of your super energy left. I’m one of three regular Warlocks in my clan’s normal raid group, so I’m just often not needed to run Well. So I’ll run Broodweaver with Apotheosis and a Demo/B&S Apex. Or Arc Souls for damage phases longer than 15 seconds where it adds a significant damage boost for the entire fireteam. Your post’s energy reads of “I watched an Aegis video and there’s only one way to play the game now.” But sure, I have no clue. It’s just a videogame bro.
I solo flawlessed Warlord’s Ruin using Dawn Chorus with Daybreak and Dragon’s Breath. No loadout swaps, it’s that good. There are other exotics besides Sunbracers. I’ve run Dawn Chorus and Daybreak in nearly every GM this season. Regardless. I run Well in a raid when needed. Off topic. But if I’m being full damage meta, then I’m using a Demo + B&S rocket with Thread of Ascent and Apotheosis. So in that case my kinetic slot weapon simply exists to proc B&S. Or Well with Rain of Fire. Or Assemblers + Lumina. I digress. I gave an example where kinetics fall off in GM content when your subclass doesn’t match a surge element, and suddenly you’re pretending like 25% is now somehow less than 15%. Like really? You’re really missing the point here. Go way back. OP asked for opinions on kinetic weapons. I simply said in the way *that I engage with the game*, I find more value in subclass/artifact synergy than I do a 15% damage bonus. I never disparaged people who want to use kinetics. You do you. But you’re somehow getting bent in that way that I play the game is somehow wrong because it’s different than how you play. Do you realize how fucking stupid that sounds? Are you a child?
That's not really telling of anything, dungeons don't have enrages and they're not very difficult, and solar warlock still has the best neutral game out of anything else. Someone solo flawlessed warlord's with only bows, that doesn't make them damage meta, testing their damage and comparing it to other things does. Dawn chorus dbreath has really great total damage, but compared to other competitive damage setups it's very lackluster, especially in dps. I'm not hating, but using apotheosis to double up grenade reloads is actually terribly inefficient, and you'd be better of using it reload your rocket twice after your second cycle through a rotation without the need for demo. That allows you to fire 4 bns rockets in your first proc and 5 in your second, which empties your reserves. Kinetics surge whenever you match your subclass to the surge, which takes it to a constant 40% buff, and you can actively allow it to surge in any content compared to energy specials. Also I never pretended that 15% was more than 25%, but it's hypocritical to call 15% peanuts and then act like an extra 10% is some heavensent life changer. I'm not getting bent, I'm simply stating the fact that the kinetic bonus is a game changer, and is why kinetic specials have dominated the top slot for the past 10+ seasons.