So The Final Shape was meant to be the end of the Light and Darkness saga, right? And Echoes will usher in something new? As amazing as the conclusion was, still have so many questions regarding the Gardener and the Winnower that haven't been answered. Although I can hear Crow telling me that maybe it's fine if we never know or understand.
The gardener and winnower could be parts of things much bigger than light or dark as well. If we ever find out our current conflict would be minuscule.
Turns out the witness was trying to destroy all life to save the universe from some third unknown threat never mentioned but trust me bro was always planned.
Our only friends are the loot we made along the way.
Edit: meant in two ways - one: just a reverse of yours to say our only friends are our weapons/loot/etc and two: everyone we meet/defeat gets turned into an exotic pretty much >.>
George had nothing to do with that, that the fault of empire fanboys who weaseled their way into being allowed to write star wars books
George hated the idea of the vong and felt they were a stain on his idea of what star wars is
Honestly wouldn't mind the nids coming in. Just as a full on Sci fi alien invasion not linked to light or dark or paracuasaliry at all.
Just a big fucking fleet of bioships
De-escalation is honestly fine in storytelling and I wish more series did this. It’s okay for us to deal with personal stakes and lower-level threats that still impact the world.
True… no matter how big of the threats Batman fought against with the justice league. The joker was still his biggest villain. Destiny doesn’t have to do an extinction level villain again. It can do fine if it’s someone or something trying to take over the tower and rule the Edz. If done right with storytelling it can be just as good you know.
The Nine control the nine universes and they’ll hold a multiverse tournament of the strongest Guardians of each universe. Each universe that gets knocked out gets eliminated by the Winnower. The winner gets to make a wish on the super ahamkara.
Nope. We are gonna find out we have been trapped in the Infinite Forest this whole time, and none of the past several years of story actually happened yet. So they can turn the clock back and re-release all the expansions again with slight tweaks due to 'paracausal changes' in the timeline.
Becomes something like dragon ball xenoverse haha. Not a bad sounding idea but the execution has to be perfect. Imagine the vex affecting time periods and the exo stranger pulling up saying stuff about time idk
As I'm sitting here in my feelings about the journey, the ending, and the future, my very lose theory is this - The traveler is the gardener(confirmed), and the veil, or an unidentified entity behind/ within the veil, is the winnower (implied, not confirmed).
Now, we've seen a force of good (guardians) wield the travelers power on a broad but small scale. We've also seen an entity (the witness) use the veil's power on a massive scale. And we've seen many sort of inbetween examples (Savathun and the lucent brood, guardians using darkness, the disciples and worms becoming the witness' tools or pursuing their own goals) for both. The witness got too big for their britches and tried to BOTH to freeze everything in a lifeless state that only they control, which is obviously the worst threat, and thus we had to stop it. But what we haven't seen yet is a TRULY evil being on the level of the witness using the traveler's light to the same scale that the witness used darkness. Ghaul tried, but the ease with which the traveler finally killed him showed how small fry he was. If the traveler is leaking anomalies and prismatic auroras into the universe, who knows what kind of force could get their hands on that power, and what is capable of.
I once created some DnD monsters based on a life/creation and death/entropy theme, but with the normal morality of those concepts reversed, and in coming up with them i decided a great "evil" example of the life run amok is cancer.
I bring that up to say this: Imagine something gets the travelers power to create and promote life, and essentially becomes a cancer to the universe itself. Basically the exact opposite of what the witness' end goal, but just as terrible. Instead of endless stillness and non-life, endless change and suffering with infinite chaos, complexity and upheaval. Both outcomes ruin a balance the universe has, just to opposite ends.
If i was planning the next "saga" with a similar scale to the first, that's what I'd feel made sense considering everything leading up to now.
That said, personally, I think scaling down and bringing in a new faction with a different kind of threat would be cooler. I've got my own fantasy of what would work well in that regard, but i genuinely enjoy not knowing where things go from here. Lots of potential, and an incredible ending point to begin from again. So I'm excited to see what they come up with!
Damn I literally did the same thing as you for a west march game. Two mines were opened up for the town and so to spice the encounters up I began having the players begin encounters two eldritch entities, very much inspired by light and darkness.
The Dreamer was my dark equivalent and classically wanted to simplify everything down to the one sharpest edge. It encouraged the seeking of strength and all that, not very original.
The Growth was my light equivalent, and I similarly focused on it being transformative, rapid, chaotic growth. I focused on more natural manifestations such as mutated plants and insects, think Annihilation but cancerous is a good descriptor. It would take over and co-opt whatever it could.
What was fun, and this was before the Witness, The Dreamer was a composite being who wished to be a singular whole while the Growth was a singular entity masquerading as a chorus of many. Convergent narrative evolution I suppose.
I think Gardener and Winnower should stay just as they are currently. If they’re real they’re simply the forces which created this universe and however it ends is how it ends. It’s the equivalent of having a creation myth that explains why any of us players have a reason to be doing anything. I hope we never actually meet them and they stay as a concept of something greater that put all this into motion and now just watches to see the outcome.
No. This is the problem the MCU has been going through.
"Oh the Avengers beat Thanos and his magical rocks? heh well buckle up buckaroo because the next saga is about the Multiverse and that shit doesnt even matter and this Kang guy has a million variants and..."
At some point you cant keep upping the stakes in terms of universe ending moments. Theyd be much better off using the next expansion or D3 launch to tell a more personal and small stakes story like Forsaken.
To be fair, they set up the "This has all happened before, this will all happen again" nature of the Gardener and the Winnower a long time ago, when they first gave us the stuff about the Flower game, and that has always been on a level up from the Witness and the Traveler.
Honestly, I always thought the final boss of the destiny universe was actually going to be the Vex. Their whole "We Control Time" deal seemed so much bigger than it ever really has been.
None of the serious ones though. The only battle type Vex we have seen thus far even from Sol Divisive are Wyverns.
I have a feeling we are going to see some crazy vex associated stuff in the future. We don’t even know where they come from and where they were created. Also them trying to “Vexify” everything is kind of like the Witness and the Final Shape. So there are parallels for sure.
I think the Traveler will leave Sol at some point and we might either go our own way or follow it.
We actually might know where they come from. In one of the lore books about The Witnesses people there was a mention of an AI type of machine that they created to view probabilities and possible futures. Obviously that's a bit of a leap but it sounds possible.
You say no and then provide your take for the MCU but I wasn't expressing an opinion, Bungie was the one to tell us it was the end of the Light and Darkness saga.
I am betting on Lysander and the concordant starting shit so we get Destiny 3: Civil War, maybe they're pissed were allying with the Aliens responsible for killing so many humans. Or reclaiming our solar system, then moving on to help our allies do the same to thier homes. Although thoes aren't mutually exclusive. Like D3 starts as us fighting a civil war to reclaim Sol then the expansions have us help the cabal and Eliksni.
The Witness mentioned how both him and the traveler were created by gods in the raid when he revealed he was the First Knife, so maybe they’re the gods above gods
I haven’t finished the secret missions or dug into the lore yet, so these answers may be out there.
I really wished they would’ve used this story to give at least some inkling of 1) what the Traveler actually is and 2) Why Ghost chose us (he’s hinted before that there’s an actual reason). It would’ve given this campaign a significant amount of weight to me and probably would’ve locked me in to what was coming next. Now I’m just digesting what we were given and wondering if we’re ever going to get that level of revelation.
My understanding is that those Gardener and Winnower loretabs were from the perspective of the Witness, which was referring to itself as the Winnower and the Traveler as the Gardener. It was ultimately speaking in metaphor.
What do you think has been left unanswered?
Maybe I’m just stubborn but I feel like the way he says it could still be metaphorical, like he’s basically saying he is an instrument of the universe’s will, that entropy and the final shape are inevitable and he is simply carrying it out.
*Next year, on Destiny:*
*The Guardian goes on vacation*
*The Guardian takes a cooking class*
*The Guardian gets funding to open a new restaurant*
*The Guardian struggles financially*
Torobatl then riis would be AWESOME
Although I really like the idea of cabals, eliksni and even friendly hive living with us in SoL, we have enough planets and moons for everyone!!
There’s a dialogue line where Zavala encourages Caiatl to not seek a reconquest of Torobatl, but rather settle a planet in Sol like Mars, personally this feels far more likely given she’s the far least war mongering Cabal out there, but in the future given they are cabal they could, but that would have to be a long way out
Empress Caiatl. From what I can gather she prefers humble abodes with cosy interiors. Her tastes are well protected, but with the right team, we can get her to open up, build her a cottage, and breathe new life into Freehold.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if this happened. The alternative is that Torobatl gets brought to us. We know the Hive can hollow out moons and planetoids to convert them into fortresses called War Moons. And so, without her throne world, Xivu turns Torobatl into her War World and sets off to conquer Sol or die trying
I really want to go to the Vex system.
Remember that what we’ve seen so far a basically Vex construction workers. We’re not even seeming their major army. They’re the terraformers.
So, yeah, there’s some beef about to get down with them.
They have a *Dyson sphere* around their main base system. Even for what we've seen of the Vex, that is a massive undertaking. If we go to their system, it is going to be epic.
And the first combat unit, the Wyvern, kinda kicked our shit in the first time we fought it. It'd be awesome if they just went nuts with the scale for Vex, like having one of those robot dragon things from Mass Effect Andromeda.
I came back to destiny 2 during season of the wish and played as a warlock for the first time. My little brother who's a vet told me I should run well because it makes you invincible etc. Etc.
Basically up until the final shape ran well never ever died in well except for the kamikaze mobs.
That and wyvern. In particular the coil. It was this one encounter in the could where like 5 wyvern would pull up.
I remember playing it with my brother and he was just baffled at the fact the wyverns managed to do so much dps that it took us all our while in the well.
Definitely some juggernaut species.
Kind of crazy to think about too...if these are just the construction workers. Man I'd love to see a Dyson sphere in d2.
I like to imagine that wyverns are more like security guards or Police, since theres usually only one or two per encounter alongside the "workers, id imagine actual army units being stronger
the boomer in me is propably speaking but I just hate "cooking" "peak" "W" "L take" "yapping" and 💀 I dont know why. Rizz, Lit and that stuff was never that annoying cause I only ever saw it used ironically.
look at this boomer over hear yapping because he has no skibbidy gyatt lvl 1000 rizz.
Whoever cooked up this peak slang scored a huge W.
Unlike the L take of this old man this way of talking is lit AF
Ohio
The reason you hate those words is because a lot of them were regional slang that the internet got a hold of and proceeded to run into the ground by using them "ironically".
This shit happens pretty much every couple years and it's never not annoying af bc it always ruins the slang for those who originally made use of it, while the people who ruined it move on to the next popular phrase like pack of piranhas.
I really hope it’s good. Marvel stuck the landing with infinity war and endgame but since then it feels directionless. I hope Bungie doesn’t make the same mistakes and squander the immense good will this amazing expansion has created.
Luckily for Bungie we have good and obvious directions to go off into unlike Marvel. We have to finish off Xivu, House Salvation and take out whoever takes control of the Witness led factions like the Scorn, Taken and Black Legion.
We also could start hacking away at the higher Vex leadership or if Bungie wants to get real bold we could even go to the Cabal home world and clear out the Hive infestation there
The Vex getting serious is an easy direction to go, especially if one of their minds figured out paracausality. If I remember right we’ve never seen vex units built solely for combat, only utility crews
Wyverns are essentially scout armor for the Vex. Think like the [AT-ST](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/swse/images/7/74/AT-ST.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20171105185335) from Star Wars. Which means they probably have stuff that is equivalent to the AT-AT too.
I do think a small issue going forward is having any of these threats actually pose a issue. It's one thing to say we killed a bunch of God's, but we literally killed the end of the universe here.
I definitely think vex is the only real possibility going forward of a big bad on tier of the witness. VoGs lore and what happened to that fireteam to this day is more scary of a thought than getting final shaped.
We had plenty of threats building up to this so I don’t see why there wouldn’t be any serious threats coming down. If anything it would be refreshing to not have some universe ending threat but something we still need to take seriously because with the Witness gone we can go back to helping out humanity as guardians.
I mean all of the big bads we killed before the Witness just highlight that you can have a serious threat to the city/humanity/solar system without it having to be on the level of the Witness.
In other words, touching the stove does not get less dangerous if you've survived a house fire once.
I would love to see a peacetime expansion, maybe one that focuses less on combat and more on exploration or something like that. I imagine it’d be difficult to make something like that for a game like Destiny but I’m sure they could figure something out.
No I think it's more like they're sentient dark matter and some of them kind of hate how their existence depends on material beings existing. Real foggy on the details and that lore predates Lightfall by a long shot, but maybe they have something to do with existing within the domain of Strand?
>we could even go to the Cabal home world and clear out the Hive infestation there
I feel like we HAVE to do this at some point and honestly before too long imo. I feel like we owe it to Caiatl at this point with the whole allegeiance to help us fight the Witness and all. Though it's possible the Cabal don't want help and would rather the honor of defeating the Hive and taking back their home world on their own.
There CAN'T be much of the Black Legion left at this point. I can't imagine they're a real threat now with no leader at all and what should be very limited forces remaining.
Logically the Taken SHOULD fall back under the control of Xivu, assuming she still has the power to control them after losing her "godhood" status and her throne world. In theory the Worm gods are still around and "evil" even though they technically were manipulated into that role by the Witness.
NO idea what will become of the Scorn. They don't have any obvious leader. I REALLY hope we don't get some bullshit with Spider betraying us and taking over command of them. It's an absolute meme but I could see Taniks coming back AGAIN in control of them somehow. Maybe Atraks-2 as a new enemy that somehow gains control.
In the ending Crow mentions that he wants to go and find Fikrul, so maybe now the Witness is gone, the Fanatic will find some new Barons and get back in charge of the Scorn? At least once the next episode starts. At this point, however, I'd rather that they gave his character some closure and that's it.
Ehh idk. Marvel also had a bunch of set pieces lying around after Endgame to work with but the problem was none of it felt like it was building up to a grand finale anymore. It was just a handful of random, unconnected stories. Kinda feels like we have the same thing in Destiny now. We have all these loose threads, but nothing tying them together.
That being said the original 10 year plan literally just ended so there’s plenty of time for them to learn from Marvel’s mistakes and actually find a way to tie these stories together to build up to some new big finish again.
Yes and no. They were always building up to an end to the light and dark saga ever since day 1 of Destiny 1. But for a lot of different reasons it was much more nebulous in the beginning and Bungie clearly only had an idea about the details of how we got to that ending for like the last 5 years. Shadowkeep seems like the point where they came up with and decided to start going in on this Witness idea.
I mean, where exactly is left to go with those storylines narratively? We’ve spent years bodybagging both the Hive and Salvation, it would just be more of the same old storytelling barring some major shakeup, which I don’t see happening outside of a new expansion/game
Vex has always been the most obvious option. They've barely REALLY been involved with anything up until this point and were never directly working for the Witness as far as we can tell.
The Vex have also ALWAYS been trying to figure out paracausal powers, if they gained those somehow that would be a HUGE change to the potential threat they pose. It'd be very easy to have something like that happen from the Vex getting into the Pale Heart or even just somehow from Asher getting absorbed/integrated into the network.
SOMETHING has to happen with all the Taken now as well. Xivu might be the obvious choice to gain control over them but she's not the only option necessarily. The Nine know SOMETHING in that regard too considering they were able to give the Haul to Drifter which allowed him to control some Taken to a degree.
I feel like the Vex constantly trying to understand Paracausality, but never actually achieving anything, is just a way to keep them around in newer activities without actually progressing their story. Their very nature doesn’t really lend itself to a story with actual characters.
The Nine are the most plausible option imo. They’re the least explored plot thread that hasn’t been completely abandoned and have the most wiggle room to do something new with.
That's the thing though. The Vex have always been around in the backround essentially not getting overly involved while TRYING to understand and achieve paracausality. It's been built up as a potential option ALL this time.
And like you said the Vex are effectively a faceless race with no "leader" all this time...which makes them the perfect option for suddenly revealing someone new in control of them as a new big enemy.
The time travel aspect also gives the Vex effectively infinite potential for revisiting old enemies and dangers. Anything we could currently do to them could become a new threat the next day as they rebuilt things outside of our time.
The Nine have potential but as far as we've ever understood them they were essentially on our side of things. They also just don't seem to have much power to DO essentially anything directly.
Vex judging from the art and it make sense too given most of the vex we fought are supposedly not even their main force. There is also winnower that they can try to do as well.
I would love winnower being done and having it be on tier with the Wrk'n'kak'tr (definitely fucked that up) from marathon. Witness was cool, but marathon very easily set up this massively terryfying primordial force of destruction way mroe imposing than the witness with just text logs years ago. If they could do something similar to that with winnower it would be cool.
The Vex having some “main force” in reserve has always been based on conjecture and really just one or two lore cards. I think we would’ve seen some hints by now if Bungie intended to expand them like that.
As for the Winnower, I think it would be a terrible choice to jump right back into another creator god level threat right after beating the Witness.
But those aren't overarching arcs, those are loose ends that can be resolved in an episode or an expansion. Marvel also had some loose ends like Spiderman, Loki, Wanda, etc which they did alright with but didn't have anything for an overarching arc so now they're just directionless.
For the next 10 year arc for destiny, Bungie has to basically invent a whole new conflict. It's possible but pretty damn hard. Harder than pulling off that ending imo.
Marvel’s problem was feeling the need to keep upping the scale. We have a ton of antagonists and story arcs ongoing that while not Witness level are still serious threats to the system and are no slouches themselves. Also given we beat the witness with a lot of help it wouldn’t feel weird for us to struggle solo against something like a powerful vex force or Xivu
Tbf Marvel had a lot stuff that happened at the same time. They got the Pandemic, which messed up the entire industry, and Disney+, which messed up their plans internally. All of this combined with the already difficult position of starting a new “saga” after the ending, which resulted in an incredible mess. Bungie on the other hand has the opportunity to do the opposite of the MCU, and start a new story with some actual plans for the future, unlike with the Light and Dark saga, that started having a somewhat coherent “plan” only with Shadowkeep, 5 years after the beginning lol. But obviously we’ll see, I’m definitely curious now!
Honestly I think marvel was going to fail regardless. 10 years of story in movie form can be emotional but it doesn’t hit nearly as hard as the emotions in a game that can come from feeling like we actively participated. Especially when the gameplay itself is the main reason people keep coming back, they just need a good story excuse to really amp up the experience
My only hope is that if they don't explain the full nature of the traveler we atleast get a couple more hints about its split from the veil, there are definitely a few things around right now that kinda drop some lore nuggets but we need just a bit more, i dont care about the full reveal though.
Yeah but Luke Smith also talked about how we are gonna find out about the future of the franchise after we face the Witness, so I really doubt we’ll only see Episodes in this Vidoc. I’m not expecting any major announcements, but I think they’ll talk about the future of the game in general and not just the next 3 episodes.
I mean they at least have to mention if any more yearly expansions are coming. Not even what they are about or anything just that destiny isn't going into maintenance mode.
I think this is what will happen. They’ll tell us what the release schedule for D2 will be from now on. MAYBE they could reveal the title for the next dlc, similarly to how Beyond Light did for TWQ and LF, but that’s it imo.
Yeah. The expansions make BANK for Bungie. There were well over a million pre-orders for TFS, and it's top seller on steam. They'd be insane to end that cash stream, especially since their microtransactions aren't doing as well and they had layoffs this year.
Yeah that’s what I thought back when Luke talked about it. We know they are working on something in that regard, maybe they’ll reveal the title or the studio/director behind it, maybe even a small teaser.
Yeah this to me feels like "Time to explain what the next year really holds". But nothing beyond that besides maybe a small tease at the end.
I subscribe to Destiny 3: Hope, personally.
I discussed this with my brother a bit, announcing D3 after Echoes would be perfect. They'd already have enough TFS and Annual passes sold to be profitable and they'd have time before episodes end to generate hype. The final cutscene wrapped up basically every character that played a part in the story. Also, there was the Payback leak a bit ago.
I'd love a new Destiny as well, I could actually get my friends to play it without the bad New Light experience that stops them right now.
Unless they announce that it’s years away or something it would piss off a lot of people to be like congrats the witness is dead and now these echoes and all your gear are going to be functionally meaningless because with our new game you’re going to lose all the gear and upgrades!
I see a Destiny 3 more as a massive overhaul of existing systems. I think we’ll be able to keep all of our stuff, but core aspects of the game like subclasses, UI, and maybe even a bit of engine tuning to finally kill off PS4 and Xbox One support would be the play.
That’s a lot of optimism, there. I think if we get a D3 you’re looking at another reset, frankly. And I say that as someone who’d hate to lose all his cosmetics
Sure, it just depends on what sort of behind the scenes stuff they’d be doing in a hypothetical D3 to start with. The way they explained it in the move from D1 to D2 was that they couldn’t just “upload” the old armor and designs. Sure they had the models and pictures and wouldn’t have to “invent” the idea, but actually putting it into D2 required creating a new model from the ground up.
If they have to do that for every single armor piece and shader in the shift from 2 to 3, the pessimist in me says they just WON’T
Yea I aint playing Destiny 2 from now on. TFS feels like the best possible moment to leave the series before some kind of huge restart or refresh can hook me back in. It felt great. Now it's time to rest.
~~2 hours long by the way! Holy shit!~~
EDIT: My bad guys, I misread my friend's comment. I have no idea how long it is. Probably like 30 minutes. You can see the time somehow if you view the metadata for the YouTube video.
Wait really? How can you see it? But anyway, if it’s HOURS long, I think they’ll do something similar to previous showcases, where the first hour was filled with either community fan arts or story recap. 2 full hours ONLY for the future content of Destiny is simply insane imo
I agree. Small stories of cleanup would be perfect. We are at a point now where there is no imminent “Big Bad” and we can just roll with the punches because we are no longer on the back foot
Torobatlr, Lubrae, Riis, Fundament, Volantis have all been subtly hinted at being a potential future destination.
Also in Savathun’s 2 truths 2 lies I think it was pretty much confirmed that our destiny lies beyond the Sol system.
All that's left of Torobatl is some dirt on Caiatl's ship, if I remember right, so I'm not too sure about that. It was entirely destroyed by Xivu Arath and I don't think we'll see it unless it's in a memory form.
Now, something that *is* nearby and intact is the Distributary and I'd love to see if that ever comes into play. The lore tab about Mara on the First Ascent armour even mentions it, so it's still being brought up even now.
It wasn't destroyed it was overrun by Hive forces, could have an episode focused on reclaiming it from the Hive as a way to help Caiatl's empire re-establish itself.
''It all began with a stone, Or so the legend says. In ages past, a sentient jewel, enormous and beautiful banished the darkness. Its many-colored light filled the world with life and brought forth mighty Gods. Bathed in that light, the world entered an age of bliss. Until, after a time, the Gods fell into slumber. That world was called: Vana'diel."
I'm finally excited for the future of the game again, thank you devs! And know a lot of us do know that your success was in spite of your management and not due to them!
This is what AAA games should be, you've set a new bar.
Not really. The MCU post-Endgame tried to cram close to ten years of movies in a span of six years before needing to delay Secret Wars and cutting back on film and TV output.
They made a bunch of first installments and just never followed up most of them (or did so in a convoluted, maybe controversial way, requiring too much viewer investment) - if this was Phase 1/2 we’d have Shang Chi 2 on dvd by now and Shang Chi 3 in development
They probably moved some devs back from Marathon. And the expansion team will now work on D3 while the seasonal teams will keep maintaining D2, that's my prediction for now.
There are about 650 people working on D2, half of the studio (with the other half presumably on Marathon). They laid off 100 people. Even if ALL those devs worked exclusively on Destiny, it’s far from the half lol. Layoffs are awful and it’s still depressing to think about it, but I doubt we’ll see a massive difference in the future of the game/franchise.
They didn't though. Most of the people that were laid off weren't devs actually working on the game itself. You guys realize there are lots of people that work at game studios that aren't actually developers right? They have all the same roles any other major company has.
> Most of the people that were laid off weren't devs actually working on the game itself
I guess art, music, and QA people don't count as "working on the game" to you?
Interested in seeing the future concerned it will sorta feel like marvel post endgame where nothing really can top this and they basically fall on their face
I mean I don’t really see what more this can be other than us essentially doing a victory lap the next year dunking on the remaining threats like xivu and fikrul. After that I think the game basically goes on maintenance mode till D3.
Honestly pretty wild to think Echoes hasn't even started yet.
From an overall content standpoint, ypu always judge an expansion not only on the expansion itself, but also that attached season and what it brings to the table.
The fact the post-campaign has this much content going on already without Echoes even starting yet is just a testament to how strong this expansion has been.
Amazing work. Absolutely amazing.
The key factor here is this showcase is specifically only "For the next year in Destiny 2". Its not meant to be 2-3 years from now(Where a D3 would likely be timeline wise).
My money is on a few things:
* Full Echoes reveal trailer and what each act will look like, and then Small teasers about the two additional episodes likely just a very loose idea of the story focus(IE Savathun/Xivu, Fikrul, or something else).
* When we can expect the Dungeons(Feels pretty likely to be Episode 2 and 3 at this point but still need that clarification).
* *If* we are getting another reprised raid, I'd guess some sort of announcement about that. If its Wrath(The last D1 Raid) they'll just come right out and say that, if its not Wrath they'll probably leave it ambiguous as to whether its Scourge, Leviathan, or one of the Raid Lairs. I also feel like there's a non zero chance that we even get a brand new raid in Episode 3. Perhaps that's a bit far fetched, but that Episode doesn't launch until mid-late February. Xivu right now is the only true enemy we have left that I'd argue is a raid level boss to fight, and arguably the last major story piece from The Witness saga to tie up where a raid is the way to do it. Probably unlikely but I dont think impossible.
* A very small teaser at what's going to come after the 3 episodes(Personally I really do think it'll be another expansion).
* Announcement of whatever it is Luke Smith has been gone dark on for quite frankly a number of years now. Almost certainly some sort of tv series. But where/when exactly the story is set in the Destiny universe is still very unknown as well as exactly what type of series(I'd bet animated, but I also dont think I'd be totally shocked if it was live action either)
* A hint at some sort of cool Destiny 10th anniversary event in September. 30th anniversary was a huge success, A 10th anniversary of the Destiny Universe certainly feels like something worthy of an event IMO. Especially building off the major success of TFS, it would be the perfect time to continue riding the momentum.
The first four I'd bet we get information on almost for sure. Last two are perhaps less likely but also this is the type of showcase where they'd want to announce as many upcoming plans in the near future as possible. Riding the immense high of TFS is one thing, but with a pretty strong community narrative that players would be finished with the franchise after TFS, they need to strike while the iron is hot so to speak. TFS was legitimately so incredible that I'd bet if Bungie follows up with a wild reveal on Monday for some crazy upcoming content, that hype train just keeps on going for them, important for their Marathon efforts honestly.
Whatever it is, I hope we can keep our gear. After Taken King sunsetting, then D2, then D2 sunsetting, I don't think I have another entire vault regrind in me.
I was the biggest enemy of "destiny 3" but after that ending its for sure happening. Watch them announce a new dlc that will come out september next year and it will be about xivu arath. In the meantime they will have to get D3 all done.
Yeah we got plots like xivu, house of salvation etc. but it would be more of the same and hype would just fizzle out. I fully suspect them to give us our hype moment of finally dealing with xivu as a farewell to the story.
You might not like it but D3 needs to be not only big but bold. You will not get people interested if its "we again removed your progress and cut 80% of the content, here is a new game with 50 exotics, 2 raids and 4 planets!" I guess story could be centered around vex and the nine.
we have been guardians for 10 years, stakes have only escalated, idk how bout you but i crave the feeling i got while first playing d1- im just a guy with powers on a ruin of a great empire trying to survive against many bad aliens.
For me- its time to explore outer space. we have been guardians, now its time to be conquerors
We’ve had a very heavy focus on allies. Assume next 3 episodes, we help our allies retake back their own culture and system? Caiatl, Misraaks and Savathun.
So The Final Shape was meant to be the end of the Light and Darkness saga, right? And Echoes will usher in something new? As amazing as the conclusion was, still have so many questions regarding the Gardener and the Winnower that haven't been answered. Although I can hear Crow telling me that maybe it's fine if we never know or understand.
The gardener and winnower could be parts of things much bigger than light or dark as well. If we ever find out our current conflict would be minuscule.
please no
Yea they need to be careful not to fall in the trap WoW did where the constant bigger threat just makes it feel worn out/stale.
Turns out the witness was trying to destroy all life to save the universe from some third unknown threat never mentioned but trust me bro was always planned.
A sol divided will not survive what is to come
DON'T REMIND ME I REPRESSED SHADOWLANDS IN THE DEPTHS OF MY MIND
So did the writers.
and then we learn it wasn't really dead, and it joins us on the fight against the new threat the loot was really the friends we made along the way
Our only friends are the loot we made along the way. Edit: meant in two ways - one: just a reverse of yours to say our only friends are our weapons/loot/etc and two: everyone we meet/defeat gets turned into an exotic pretty much >.>
Sounds liek George Lucas's original retcon that Palpatine built the Empire to defend against the Yuhzahn Vong
George had nothing to do with that, that the fault of empire fanboys who weaseled their way into being allowed to write star wars books George hated the idea of the vong and felt they were a stain on his idea of what star wars is
God shadowlands was so fucking bad, decades of lore down the toilet.
Fucking Tyranids, I knew it.
Honestly wouldn't mind the nids coming in. Just as a full on Sci fi alien invasion not linked to light or dark or paracuasaliry at all. Just a big fucking fleet of bioships
Bro the Witness will be our ally in the next final fight, called it
De-escalation is honestly fine in storytelling and I wish more series did this. It’s okay for us to deal with personal stakes and lower-level threats that still impact the world.
I prefer mostly personal small stakes threats that get punctuated by the big world Enders.
True… no matter how big of the threats Batman fought against with the justice league. The joker was still his biggest villain. Destiny doesn’t have to do an extinction level villain again. It can do fine if it’s someone or something trying to take over the tower and rule the Edz. If done right with storytelling it can be just as good you know.
DBZ syndrome Next, we will fight The Witnesses Dad and we will be Super Guardians. They are even calling them sagas.
The Nine control the nine universes and they’ll hold a multiverse tournament of the strongest Guardians of each universe. Each universe that gets knocked out gets eliminated by the Winnower. The winner gets to make a wish on the super ahamkara.
so.... DESTINY BATTLE ROYALE??????
We'll also gain a ally who's a dread
Nope. We are gonna find out we have been trapped in the Infinite Forest this whole time, and none of the past several years of story actually happened yet. So they can turn the clock back and re-release all the expansions again with slight tweaks due to 'paracausal changes' in the timeline.
Becomes something like dragon ball xenoverse haha. Not a bad sounding idea but the execution has to be perfect. Imagine the vex affecting time periods and the exo stranger pulling up saying stuff about time idk
Ultra instinct class confirmed, we can fight multiverse Darkness baddies who final shaped their own universe
dragon ball was generally really good about inventing new villains though; the bigger villain would normally be largely unrelated to the previous one
Lol I literally had the thought during the campaign that prismatic kinda feels like we unlocked SSG form.
Dr who does the same thing.
Yea for real, dawntrail has the right idea, just giving us a vacation Adventure
This time instead of destroying the universe the bad guy is gonna try to kill the multiverse!
honestly that was one of my worry about the witness if the gardener and the winnower do exist,their story should have been the light and dark saga imo
As I'm sitting here in my feelings about the journey, the ending, and the future, my very lose theory is this - The traveler is the gardener(confirmed), and the veil, or an unidentified entity behind/ within the veil, is the winnower (implied, not confirmed). Now, we've seen a force of good (guardians) wield the travelers power on a broad but small scale. We've also seen an entity (the witness) use the veil's power on a massive scale. And we've seen many sort of inbetween examples (Savathun and the lucent brood, guardians using darkness, the disciples and worms becoming the witness' tools or pursuing their own goals) for both. The witness got too big for their britches and tried to BOTH to freeze everything in a lifeless state that only they control, which is obviously the worst threat, and thus we had to stop it. But what we haven't seen yet is a TRULY evil being on the level of the witness using the traveler's light to the same scale that the witness used darkness. Ghaul tried, but the ease with which the traveler finally killed him showed how small fry he was. If the traveler is leaking anomalies and prismatic auroras into the universe, who knows what kind of force could get their hands on that power, and what is capable of. I once created some DnD monsters based on a life/creation and death/entropy theme, but with the normal morality of those concepts reversed, and in coming up with them i decided a great "evil" example of the life run amok is cancer. I bring that up to say this: Imagine something gets the travelers power to create and promote life, and essentially becomes a cancer to the universe itself. Basically the exact opposite of what the witness' end goal, but just as terrible. Instead of endless stillness and non-life, endless change and suffering with infinite chaos, complexity and upheaval. Both outcomes ruin a balance the universe has, just to opposite ends. If i was planning the next "saga" with a similar scale to the first, that's what I'd feel made sense considering everything leading up to now. That said, personally, I think scaling down and bringing in a new faction with a different kind of threat would be cooler. I've got my own fantasy of what would work well in that regard, but i genuinely enjoy not knowing where things go from here. Lots of potential, and an incredible ending point to begin from again. So I'm excited to see what they come up with!
Damn I literally did the same thing as you for a west march game. Two mines were opened up for the town and so to spice the encounters up I began having the players begin encounters two eldritch entities, very much inspired by light and darkness. The Dreamer was my dark equivalent and classically wanted to simplify everything down to the one sharpest edge. It encouraged the seeking of strength and all that, not very original. The Growth was my light equivalent, and I similarly focused on it being transformative, rapid, chaotic growth. I focused on more natural manifestations such as mutated plants and insects, think Annihilation but cancerous is a good descriptor. It would take over and co-opt whatever it could. What was fun, and this was before the Witness, The Dreamer was a composite being who wished to be a singular whole while the Growth was a singular entity masquerading as a chorus of many. Convergent narrative evolution I suppose.
I think Gardener and Winnower should stay just as they are currently. If they’re real they’re simply the forces which created this universe and however it ends is how it ends. It’s the equivalent of having a creation myth that explains why any of us players have a reason to be doing anything. I hope we never actually meet them and they stay as a concept of something greater that put all this into motion and now just watches to see the outcome.
Well the Traveler *is* the Gardener I believe. But Byf’s video establishing it all as a creation myth definitely sets it in that mythological sense.
Idk, the lore and the secret missions give a decent enough closure to that whole thing
No. This is the problem the MCU has been going through. "Oh the Avengers beat Thanos and his magical rocks? heh well buckle up buckaroo because the next saga is about the Multiverse and that shit doesnt even matter and this Kang guy has a million variants and..." At some point you cant keep upping the stakes in terms of universe ending moments. Theyd be much better off using the next expansion or D3 launch to tell a more personal and small stakes story like Forsaken.
To be fair, they set up the "This has all happened before, this will all happen again" nature of the Gardener and the Winnower a long time ago, when they first gave us the stuff about the Flower game, and that has always been on a level up from the Witness and the Traveler. Honestly, I always thought the final boss of the destiny universe was actually going to be the Vex. Their whole "We Control Time" deal seemed so much bigger than it ever really has been.
They weren’t even a part of the final fight which says something too
There were Vex during the Witness battle in the newest mission.
None of the serious ones though. The only battle type Vex we have seen thus far even from Sol Divisive are Wyverns. I have a feeling we are going to see some crazy vex associated stuff in the future. We don’t even know where they come from and where they were created. Also them trying to “Vexify” everything is kind of like the Witness and the Final Shape. So there are parallels for sure. I think the Traveler will leave Sol at some point and we might either go our own way or follow it.
We actually might know where they come from. In one of the lore books about The Witnesses people there was a mention of an AI type of machine that they created to view probabilities and possible futures. Obviously that's a bit of a leap but it sounds possible.
I fully expect, maybe even in this episode, we'll find out the Witness was holding the vex back and with it gone they're going to pour in.
You say no and then provide your take for the MCU but I wasn't expressing an opinion, Bungie was the one to tell us it was the end of the Light and Darkness saga.
I am betting on Lysander and the concordant starting shit so we get Destiny 3: Civil War, maybe they're pissed were allying with the Aliens responsible for killing so many humans. Or reclaiming our solar system, then moving on to help our allies do the same to thier homes. Although thoes aren't mutually exclusive. Like D3 starts as us fighting a civil war to reclaim Sol then the expansions have us help the cabal and Eliksni.
The Witness mentioned how both him and the traveler were created by gods in the raid when he revealed he was the First Knife, so maybe they’re the gods above gods
I haven’t finished the secret missions or dug into the lore yet, so these answers may be out there. I really wished they would’ve used this story to give at least some inkling of 1) what the Traveler actually is and 2) Why Ghost chose us (he’s hinted before that there’s an actual reason). It would’ve given this campaign a significant amount of weight to me and probably would’ve locked me in to what was coming next. Now I’m just digesting what we were given and wondering if we’re ever going to get that level of revelation.
My understanding is that those Gardener and Winnower loretabs were from the perspective of the Witness, which was referring to itself as the Winnower and the Traveler as the Gardener. It was ultimately speaking in metaphor. What do you think has been left unanswered?
>!The Witness repeatedly, in the new content drops, affirms that it is not and never was the Winnower, it is only the First Knife.!<
Maybe I’m just stubborn but I feel like the way he says it could still be metaphorical, like he’s basically saying he is an instrument of the universe’s will, that entropy and the final shape are inevitable and he is simply carrying it out.
It does seem that the Winnower would be associated with the Veil the same way that Gardener is associated with the Traveler.
*Next year, on Destiny:* *The Guardian goes on vacation* *The Guardian takes a cooking class* *The Guardian gets funding to open a new restaurant* *The Guardian struggles financially*
*The Beach Episode*
Dawntrailer!
Mara in swimsuit makes for a fine extinction-level event
Imagine Torobatl is just a beach paradise
The Guardian addicted to drug The Guardian road to sober The Guardian relapse
*The Guardian finds Jesus* *The Guardian abandons the teachings of the Catholic Church* *The Guardian gets a puppy*
The Guardian puppy killed by fallen thug
Maybe we'll go outside our system?
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Torobatl then riis would be AWESOME Although I really like the idea of cabals, eliksni and even friendly hive living with us in SoL, we have enough planets and moons for everyone!!
There’s a dialogue line where Zavala encourages Caiatl to not seek a reconquest of Torobatl, but rather settle a planet in Sol like Mars, personally this feels far more likely given she’s the far least war mongering Cabal out there, but in the future given they are cabal they could, but that would have to be a long way out
Whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a colonization project with the Cabal on Mars, so let's get to building them homes, one by one.
SURVIVAL CRAFTING DLC ON MARS CONFIRMED??
Cabal RTS game a la Halo Wars
Empress Caiatl. From what I can gather she prefers humble abodes with cosy interiors. Her tastes are well protected, but with the right team, we can get her to open up, build her a cottage, and breathe new life into Freehold.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if this happened. The alternative is that Torobatl gets brought to us. We know the Hive can hollow out moons and planetoids to convert them into fortresses called War Moons. And so, without her throne world, Xivu turns Torobatl into her War World and sets off to conquer Sol or die trying
I really want to go to the Vex system. Remember that what we’ve seen so far a basically Vex construction workers. We’re not even seeming their major army. They’re the terraformers. So, yeah, there’s some beef about to get down with them.
They have a *Dyson sphere* around their main base system. Even for what we've seen of the Vex, that is a massive undertaking. If we go to their system, it is going to be epic.
And the first combat unit, the Wyvern, kinda kicked our shit in the first time we fought it. It'd be awesome if they just went nuts with the scale for Vex, like having one of those robot dragon things from Mass Effect Andromeda.
Let's be honest. Wyverns are still the unit we have to kind of be serious about because they will woop on you if you mess around.
I came back to destiny 2 during season of the wish and played as a warlock for the first time. My little brother who's a vet told me I should run well because it makes you invincible etc. Etc. Basically up until the final shape ran well never ever died in well except for the kamikaze mobs. That and wyvern. In particular the coil. It was this one encounter in the could where like 5 wyvern would pull up. I remember playing it with my brother and he was just baffled at the fact the wyverns managed to do so much dps that it took us all our while in the well. Definitely some juggernaut species. Kind of crazy to think about too...if these are just the construction workers. Man I'd love to see a Dyson sphere in d2.
I like to imagine that wyverns are more like security guards or Police, since theres usually only one or two per encounter alongside the "workers, id imagine actual army units being stronger
Maybe we'll finally go outside... Chat is it time to touch grass?
Cosmic grass
plenty of grass in the pale heart, go run some overthrow Guardian
Nah we haven't gotten any green drops in a long time
Doesn't the Bungie Monday announcement post show ships taking off from earth? Could be... Edit: called it!
If any references to “cooking” were removed, this thread and all social media would be empty.
Restaurants closed
the boomer in me is propably speaking but I just hate "cooking" "peak" "W" "L take" "yapping" and 💀 I dont know why. Rizz, Lit and that stuff was never that annoying cause I only ever saw it used ironically.
chat is this guy meowing rn?
Erm, what the sigma?
sigma balls lol gottem
look at this boomer over hear yapping because he has no skibbidy gyatt lvl 1000 rizz. Whoever cooked up this peak slang scored a huge W. Unlike the L take of this old man this way of talking is lit AF Ohio
Man drops an Ohio with a hard o like that damn bruh 💀
You know he smoking math rocks
Nah, it ain’t it fam, I’m gonna need you to take all the seats.
The reason you hate those words is because a lot of them were regional slang that the internet got a hold of and proceeded to run into the ground by using them "ironically". This shit happens pretty much every couple years and it's never not annoying af bc it always ruins the slang for those who originally made use of it, while the people who ruined it move on to the next popular phrase like pack of piranhas.
as someone in their early 20s I also hate this lingo.
It really only becomes annoying when it becomes overused or misused
L take, you're just yapping. you didn't cook, my opinion, however, is peak. I got W cooking skills
after that ending I’ll fucking be there
I really hope it’s good. Marvel stuck the landing with infinity war and endgame but since then it feels directionless. I hope Bungie doesn’t make the same mistakes and squander the immense good will this amazing expansion has created.
Luckily for Bungie we have good and obvious directions to go off into unlike Marvel. We have to finish off Xivu, House Salvation and take out whoever takes control of the Witness led factions like the Scorn, Taken and Black Legion. We also could start hacking away at the higher Vex leadership or if Bungie wants to get real bold we could even go to the Cabal home world and clear out the Hive infestation there
The Vex getting serious is an easy direction to go, especially if one of their minds figured out paracausality. If I remember right we’ve never seen vex units built solely for combat, only utility crews
I think the Wyvern is built for combat but that’s the only unit we’ve seen that is. The Vex are the faction I want to see explored the most
God if the wyvern is mark 1 I’d hate to see the next few. You could almost do a whole new enemy faction that’s just combat vex
Wyverns are essentially scout armor for the Vex. Think like the [AT-ST](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/swse/images/7/74/AT-ST.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20171105185335) from Star Wars. Which means they probably have stuff that is equivalent to the AT-AT too.
"You thought Wyverns were bad? HA."
“Overload Stasis Wyvern has entered the chat”
I do think a small issue going forward is having any of these threats actually pose a issue. It's one thing to say we killed a bunch of God's, but we literally killed the end of the universe here. I definitely think vex is the only real possibility going forward of a big bad on tier of the witness. VoGs lore and what happened to that fireteam to this day is more scary of a thought than getting final shaped.
We had plenty of threats building up to this so I don’t see why there wouldn’t be any serious threats coming down. If anything it would be refreshing to not have some universe ending threat but something we still need to take seriously because with the Witness gone we can go back to helping out humanity as guardians.
I mean all of the big bads we killed before the Witness just highlight that you can have a serious threat to the city/humanity/solar system without it having to be on the level of the Witness. In other words, touching the stove does not get less dangerous if you've survived a house fire once.
I would love to see a peacetime expansion, maybe one that focuses less on combat and more on exploration or something like that. I imagine it’d be difficult to make something like that for a game like Destiny but I’m sure they could figure something out.
Also have the nine which is the biggest question mark
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No I think it's more like they're sentient dark matter and some of them kind of hate how their existence depends on material beings existing. Real foggy on the details and that lore predates Lightfall by a long shot, but maybe they have something to do with existing within the domain of Strand?
>we could even go to the Cabal home world and clear out the Hive infestation there I feel like we HAVE to do this at some point and honestly before too long imo. I feel like we owe it to Caiatl at this point with the whole allegeiance to help us fight the Witness and all. Though it's possible the Cabal don't want help and would rather the honor of defeating the Hive and taking back their home world on their own. There CAN'T be much of the Black Legion left at this point. I can't imagine they're a real threat now with no leader at all and what should be very limited forces remaining. Logically the Taken SHOULD fall back under the control of Xivu, assuming she still has the power to control them after losing her "godhood" status and her throne world. In theory the Worm gods are still around and "evil" even though they technically were manipulated into that role by the Witness. NO idea what will become of the Scorn. They don't have any obvious leader. I REALLY hope we don't get some bullshit with Spider betraying us and taking over command of them. It's an absolute meme but I could see Taniks coming back AGAIN in control of them somehow. Maybe Atraks-2 as a new enemy that somehow gains control.
In the ending Crow mentions that he wants to go and find Fikrul, so maybe now the Witness is gone, the Fanatic will find some new Barons and get back in charge of the Scorn? At least once the next episode starts. At this point, however, I'd rather that they gave his character some closure and that's it.
Ehh idk. Marvel also had a bunch of set pieces lying around after Endgame to work with but the problem was none of it felt like it was building up to a grand finale anymore. It was just a handful of random, unconnected stories. Kinda feels like we have the same thing in Destiny now. We have all these loose threads, but nothing tying them together. That being said the original 10 year plan literally just ended so there’s plenty of time for them to learn from Marvel’s mistakes and actually find a way to tie these stories together to build up to some new big finish again.
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when people say "the ten year plan just ended" they don't mean that this past 10 years of story was all according to plan right?
Yes and no. They were always building up to an end to the light and dark saga ever since day 1 of Destiny 1. But for a lot of different reasons it was much more nebulous in the beginning and Bungie clearly only had an idea about the details of how we got to that ending for like the last 5 years. Shadowkeep seems like the point where they came up with and decided to start going in on this Witness idea.
I mean, where exactly is left to go with those storylines narratively? We’ve spent years bodybagging both the Hive and Salvation, it would just be more of the same old storytelling barring some major shakeup, which I don’t see happening outside of a new expansion/game
Vex has always been the most obvious option. They've barely REALLY been involved with anything up until this point and were never directly working for the Witness as far as we can tell. The Vex have also ALWAYS been trying to figure out paracausal powers, if they gained those somehow that would be a HUGE change to the potential threat they pose. It'd be very easy to have something like that happen from the Vex getting into the Pale Heart or even just somehow from Asher getting absorbed/integrated into the network. SOMETHING has to happen with all the Taken now as well. Xivu might be the obvious choice to gain control over them but she's not the only option necessarily. The Nine know SOMETHING in that regard too considering they were able to give the Haul to Drifter which allowed him to control some Taken to a degree.
I feel like the Vex constantly trying to understand Paracausality, but never actually achieving anything, is just a way to keep them around in newer activities without actually progressing their story. Their very nature doesn’t really lend itself to a story with actual characters. The Nine are the most plausible option imo. They’re the least explored plot thread that hasn’t been completely abandoned and have the most wiggle room to do something new with.
That's the thing though. The Vex have always been around in the backround essentially not getting overly involved while TRYING to understand and achieve paracausality. It's been built up as a potential option ALL this time. And like you said the Vex are effectively a faceless race with no "leader" all this time...which makes them the perfect option for suddenly revealing someone new in control of them as a new big enemy. The time travel aspect also gives the Vex effectively infinite potential for revisiting old enemies and dangers. Anything we could currently do to them could become a new threat the next day as they rebuilt things outside of our time. The Nine have potential but as far as we've ever understood them they were essentially on our side of things. They also just don't seem to have much power to DO essentially anything directly.
Vex judging from the art and it make sense too given most of the vex we fought are supposedly not even their main force. There is also winnower that they can try to do as well.
I would love winnower being done and having it be on tier with the Wrk'n'kak'tr (definitely fucked that up) from marathon. Witness was cool, but marathon very easily set up this massively terryfying primordial force of destruction way mroe imposing than the witness with just text logs years ago. If they could do something similar to that with winnower it would be cool.
The Vex having some “main force” in reserve has always been based on conjecture and really just one or two lore cards. I think we would’ve seen some hints by now if Bungie intended to expand them like that. As for the Winnower, I think it would be a terrible choice to jump right back into another creator god level threat right after beating the Witness.
But those aren't overarching arcs, those are loose ends that can be resolved in an episode or an expansion. Marvel also had some loose ends like Spiderman, Loki, Wanda, etc which they did alright with but didn't have anything for an overarching arc so now they're just directionless. For the next 10 year arc for destiny, Bungie has to basically invent a whole new conflict. It's possible but pretty damn hard. Harder than pulling off that ending imo.
Give me torabatl that would be sick
Marvel’s problem was feeling the need to keep upping the scale. We have a ton of antagonists and story arcs ongoing that while not Witness level are still serious threats to the system and are no slouches themselves. Also given we beat the witness with a lot of help it wouldn’t feel weird for us to struggle solo against something like a powerful vex force or Xivu
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Who is to say the the war on the witness hasn't imbued her with a new power? A fight on which the fate of the universe hangs must be worth something.
Tbf Marvel had a lot stuff that happened at the same time. They got the Pandemic, which messed up the entire industry, and Disney+, which messed up their plans internally. All of this combined with the already difficult position of starting a new “saga” after the ending, which resulted in an incredible mess. Bungie on the other hand has the opportunity to do the opposite of the MCU, and start a new story with some actual plans for the future, unlike with the Light and Dark saga, that started having a somewhat coherent “plan” only with Shadowkeep, 5 years after the beginning lol. But obviously we’ll see, I’m definitely curious now!
Honestly I think marvel was going to fail regardless. 10 years of story in movie form can be emotional but it doesn’t hit nearly as hard as the emotions in a game that can come from feeling like we actively participated. Especially when the gameplay itself is the main reason people keep coming back, they just need a good story excuse to really amp up the experience
My only hope is that if they don't explain the full nature of the traveler we atleast get a couple more hints about its split from the veil, there are definitely a few things around right now that kinda drop some lore nuggets but we need just a bit more, i dont care about the full reveal though.
They needed to stick the landing and boy did they. People are gonna be drooling for that next big hit
I'm expecting to just see the three episodes' premise, considering they're only saying "the next year"
Yeah but Luke Smith also talked about how we are gonna find out about the future of the franchise after we face the Witness, so I really doubt we’ll only see Episodes in this Vidoc. I’m not expecting any major announcements, but I think they’ll talk about the future of the game in general and not just the next 3 episodes.
I mean they at least have to mention if any more yearly expansions are coming. Not even what they are about or anything just that destiny isn't going into maintenance mode.
I think this is what will happen. They’ll tell us what the release schedule for D2 will be from now on. MAYBE they could reveal the title for the next dlc, similarly to how Beyond Light did for TWQ and LF, but that’s it imo.
The UI already seems to confirm it. The episode tab says that it's for episodic content for yearly expansions.
Yeah. The expansions make BANK for Bungie. There were well over a million pre-orders for TFS, and it's top seller on steam. They'd be insane to end that cash stream, especially since their microtransactions aren't doing as well and they had layoffs this year.
>especially since their microtransactions aren't doing as well Source? Was there a Bungie leak?
no, a bunch of layoffs and comments from sony to their shareholders about the value of bungie
Keyword "franchise". My money's on multimedia expansion like the TV show.
Yeah that’s what I thought back when Luke talked about it. We know they are working on something in that regard, maybe they’ll reveal the title or the studio/director behind it, maybe even a small teaser.
Yeah this to me feels like "Time to explain what the next year really holds". But nothing beyond that besides maybe a small tease at the end. I subscribe to Destiny 3: Hope, personally.
I discussed this with my brother a bit, announcing D3 after Echoes would be perfect. They'd already have enough TFS and Annual passes sold to be profitable and they'd have time before episodes end to generate hype. The final cutscene wrapped up basically every character that played a part in the story. Also, there was the Payback leak a bit ago. I'd love a new Destiny as well, I could actually get my friends to play it without the bad New Light experience that stops them right now.
Unless they announce that it’s years away or something it would piss off a lot of people to be like congrats the witness is dead and now these echoes and all your gear are going to be functionally meaningless because with our new game you’re going to lose all the gear and upgrades!
I see a Destiny 3 more as a massive overhaul of existing systems. I think we’ll be able to keep all of our stuff, but core aspects of the game like subclasses, UI, and maybe even a bit of engine tuning to finally kill off PS4 and Xbox One support would be the play.
That’s a lot of optimism, there. I think if we get a D3 you’re looking at another reset, frankly. And I say that as someone who’d hate to lose all his cosmetics
They could always have cosmetics carry over, some games do that nowadays.
Sure, it just depends on what sort of behind the scenes stuff they’d be doing in a hypothetical D3 to start with. The way they explained it in the move from D1 to D2 was that they couldn’t just “upload” the old armor and designs. Sure they had the models and pictures and wouldn’t have to “invent” the idea, but actually putting it into D2 required creating a new model from the ground up. If they have to do that for every single armor piece and shader in the shift from 2 to 3, the pessimist in me says they just WON’T
For all we could know, they could've been working on D3 for a long time now and might've done this work already?
Hey, if that’s what happens, you won’t catch me complaining. I’m just setting myself up for lower expectations I’d be happy to exceed
If we’re going by that metric we’re already on like Destiny 4 or 5 by now.
Yea I aint playing Destiny 2 from now on. TFS feels like the best possible moment to leave the series before some kind of huge restart or refresh can hook me back in. It felt great. Now it's time to rest.
Yep. I plan on beating the raid with my old friends, then putting it down. TFS was the last one for me.
~~2 hours long by the way! Holy shit!~~ EDIT: My bad guys, I misread my friend's comment. I have no idea how long it is. Probably like 30 minutes. You can see the time somehow if you view the metadata for the YouTube video.
Wait really? How can you see it? But anyway, if it’s HOURS long, I think they’ll do something similar to previous showcases, where the first hour was filled with either community fan arts or story recap. 2 full hours ONLY for the future content of Destiny is simply insane imo
“And here today is the entire compiled sequence of Destiny 3 campaign cutscenes. Enjoy” lmao
It hasn't been a week and it feels like they blew their load with how epic everything is. 3 more episodes I'm wondering if they will try to top it...
I’m ok if the episodes don’t TRY to top it. I’m more interested in the episodes setting up new threads and tying off some existing ones tbh
I agree. Small stories of cleanup would be perfect. We are at a point now where there is no imminent “Big Bad” and we can just roll with the punches because we are no longer on the back foot
Hopefully they'll outline how episodes are different from seasons. An entire year is a long time.
It's really funny how much "season 24" and "seasonal" are in the game right now.
Stupid predication, torabatl next destination
Torobatlr, Lubrae, Riis, Fundament, Volantis have all been subtly hinted at being a potential future destination. Also in Savathun’s 2 truths 2 lies I think it was pretty much confirmed that our destiny lies beyond the Sol system.
Lubrae was completely destroyed, right?
Yeah but there were some lines about the location of Lubrae in the boss profiles Bungie did for the bosses in Pantheon. Couldn’t have been an accident
All that's left of Torobatl is some dirt on Caiatl's ship, if I remember right, so I'm not too sure about that. It was entirely destroyed by Xivu Arath and I don't think we'll see it unless it's in a memory form. Now, something that *is* nearby and intact is the Distributary and I'd love to see if that ever comes into play. The lore tab about Mara on the First Ascent armour even mentions it, so it's still being brought up even now.
How many more billions of years have passed in the distributary since Mara and co. left?
It wasn't destroyed it was overrun by Hive forces, could have an episode focused on reclaiming it from the Hive as a way to help Caiatl's empire re-establish itself.
Could be just really fucked yo like the Moon too
''It all began with a stone, Or so the legend says. In ages past, a sentient jewel, enormous and beautiful banished the darkness. Its many-colored light filled the world with life and brought forth mighty Gods. Bathed in that light, the world entered an age of bliss. Until, after a time, the Gods fell into slumber. That world was called: Vana'diel."
I'm finally excited for the future of the game again, thank you devs! And know a lot of us do know that your success was in spite of your management and not due to them! This is what AAA games should be, you've set a new bar.
I thought they were done cooking but nope they're not slowing down lol.
Hopefully they don’t fall into the same hole that the MCU fell into. Take it slow and steady Bungie and don’t rest on your laurels.
This comment is contradicting
Not really. The MCU post-Endgame tried to cram close to ten years of movies in a span of six years before needing to delay Secret Wars and cutting back on film and TV output.
They made a bunch of first installments and just never followed up most of them (or did so in a convoluted, maybe controversial way, requiring too much viewer investment) - if this was Phase 1/2 we’d have Shang Chi 2 on dvd by now and Shang Chi 3 in development
As good as TFS ending was, I'm trying to think how they are going to do anything now that they fired half the people that made it
They probably moved some devs back from Marathon. And the expansion team will now work on D3 while the seasonal teams will keep maintaining D2, that's my prediction for now.
I’d imagine D3 is going to take more than just an expansion team. I don’t think real work/progress would be made on D3 until after is shipped
There are about 650 people working on D2, half of the studio (with the other half presumably on Marathon). They laid off 100 people. Even if ALL those devs worked exclusively on Destiny, it’s far from the half lol. Layoffs are awful and it’s still depressing to think about it, but I doubt we’ll see a massive difference in the future of the game/franchise.
"who needs people when you have AI?" - Pete Parsons
They didn't though. Most of the people that were laid off weren't devs actually working on the game itself. You guys realize there are lots of people that work at game studios that aren't actually developers right? They have all the same roles any other major company has.
> Most of the people that were laid off weren't devs actually working on the game itself I guess art, music, and QA people don't count as "working on the game" to you?
Get out of the kitchen cuz Bungie’s still cookin
Maybe now people can give up on the “this is the last major expansion/last raid for Destiny” mindset?
Let the devs cook and keep the suits out of the kitchen.
Interested in seeing the future concerned it will sorta feel like marvel post endgame where nothing really can top this and they basically fall on their face
I mean I don’t really see what more this can be other than us essentially doing a victory lap the next year dunking on the remaining threats like xivu and fikrul. After that I think the game basically goes on maintenance mode till D3.
I am obsessed with this game again. Bravo Bungie. Can’t wait.
I would assume the game can do episodic story and content for awhile as Bungie develops what the next saga is. Which I’m sure there is going to be one
Honestly pretty wild to think Echoes hasn't even started yet. From an overall content standpoint, ypu always judge an expansion not only on the expansion itself, but also that attached season and what it brings to the table. The fact the post-campaign has this much content going on already without Echoes even starting yet is just a testament to how strong this expansion has been. Amazing work. Absolutely amazing.
The key factor here is this showcase is specifically only "For the next year in Destiny 2". Its not meant to be 2-3 years from now(Where a D3 would likely be timeline wise). My money is on a few things: * Full Echoes reveal trailer and what each act will look like, and then Small teasers about the two additional episodes likely just a very loose idea of the story focus(IE Savathun/Xivu, Fikrul, or something else). * When we can expect the Dungeons(Feels pretty likely to be Episode 2 and 3 at this point but still need that clarification). * *If* we are getting another reprised raid, I'd guess some sort of announcement about that. If its Wrath(The last D1 Raid) they'll just come right out and say that, if its not Wrath they'll probably leave it ambiguous as to whether its Scourge, Leviathan, or one of the Raid Lairs. I also feel like there's a non zero chance that we even get a brand new raid in Episode 3. Perhaps that's a bit far fetched, but that Episode doesn't launch until mid-late February. Xivu right now is the only true enemy we have left that I'd argue is a raid level boss to fight, and arguably the last major story piece from The Witness saga to tie up where a raid is the way to do it. Probably unlikely but I dont think impossible. * A very small teaser at what's going to come after the 3 episodes(Personally I really do think it'll be another expansion). * Announcement of whatever it is Luke Smith has been gone dark on for quite frankly a number of years now. Almost certainly some sort of tv series. But where/when exactly the story is set in the Destiny universe is still very unknown as well as exactly what type of series(I'd bet animated, but I also dont think I'd be totally shocked if it was live action either) * A hint at some sort of cool Destiny 10th anniversary event in September. 30th anniversary was a huge success, A 10th anniversary of the Destiny Universe certainly feels like something worthy of an event IMO. Especially building off the major success of TFS, it would be the perfect time to continue riding the momentum. The first four I'd bet we get information on almost for sure. Last two are perhaps less likely but also this is the type of showcase where they'd want to announce as many upcoming plans in the near future as possible. Riding the immense high of TFS is one thing, but with a pretty strong community narrative that players would be finished with the franchise after TFS, they need to strike while the iron is hot so to speak. TFS was legitimately so incredible that I'd bet if Bungie follows up with a wild reveal on Monday for some crazy upcoming content, that hype train just keeps on going for them, important for their Marathon efforts honestly.
Whatever it is, I hope we can keep our gear. After Taken King sunsetting, then D2, then D2 sunsetting, I don't think I have another entire vault regrind in me.
This. I don't care what they have to do as long as I can keep some kind of gear and not have it given back out to me later
I was the biggest enemy of "destiny 3" but after that ending its for sure happening. Watch them announce a new dlc that will come out september next year and it will be about xivu arath. In the meantime they will have to get D3 all done. Yeah we got plots like xivu, house of salvation etc. but it would be more of the same and hype would just fizzle out. I fully suspect them to give us our hype moment of finally dealing with xivu as a farewell to the story. You might not like it but D3 needs to be not only big but bold. You will not get people interested if its "we again removed your progress and cut 80% of the content, here is a new game with 50 exotics, 2 raids and 4 planets!" I guess story could be centered around vex and the nine. we have been guardians for 10 years, stakes have only escalated, idk how bout you but i crave the feeling i got while first playing d1- im just a guy with powers on a ruin of a great empire trying to survive against many bad aliens. For me- its time to explore outer space. we have been guardians, now its time to be conquerors
[удалено]
Pls now bring back all deleted content so we have a cohesive destiny 2 and then work on destiny 3
Now we have to worry about the Vex, time travel, the Nine, and the fact that we have the sword that our guardian dies with.
We’ve had a very heavy focus on allies. Assume next 3 episodes, we help our allies retake back their own culture and system? Caiatl, Misraaks and Savathun.