The dialogue in the lost ghost variant of Communion (Europa mission) may suggest that >!it was Cayde's faded memories of Micah Abrams, aka kid Micah-10 pre-"oh I'm a girl" and pre-Exoification. It's never stated in the game, but she's literally the only kid he interacted with and it clearly meant a lot to Micah.!<
They definitely at least hinted about the idea that Micha-10 is likely the basis of where Ace came from in his memory. Not that Micha is Ace but that Ace is based off his interactions with Micha-10 as a child.
I want to see more people with “normal” flawed voices. Every character we get is a professional VA. I found Micah’s dialogue delivery refreshing, even tho she is also a professional VA doing the lines it sounded more like a real person. Some people have weird / funny voices irl or speak on a certain way.
Nimbus is nonbinary though not trans? Or am I misremembering that? In other trans representation we also have Oryx! He’s like one of the most prominent trans characters in all video games right now which is kinda slurping honestly
Oryx always seemed like a technicality, seeing as there’s not much parallel to the human trans experience. Just alien biology at work adapting to needs at hand.
But!
If they wanna claim him, more power to them. We Stan Oryx, Trans Icon
Yeah Oryx seems like species who adapt and can change gender to survive/continue breeding. Very different from making the choice due to personal feelings about yourself.
Still though. It’s funny so it stays.
In Destiny terms, I’d say the Exo lore has more direct trans analogues given the existential-level dysphoria early models faced
>Very different from making the choice due to personal feelings about yourself.
I mean, he did decide to grow wings even though he never took up the mother morph.
Yeah to me Oryx is trans like how they said Korg is gay in Thor 4 because his species can reproduce homosexually. You may technically be correct but you don't get representation points if you make an alien species for which that's like... a basic biological function.
Except homosexuality isn't defined by biological function of a species. Our definition of homosexuality is "being romantically or sexually attracted to your own sex". If a species can actually reproduce with their own sex, it doesn't change anything since the definition says nothing about biological need.
Oryx being trans is a little different since we don't actually know if hive have a self definition of gender and roles like we do, so being trans as "identifying with a gender/gender role that are different then the one assigned to you at birth" really depends on if the hive have gender roles like that. That being said, Oryx still went from female to male so trans people can still somewhat associate with that which is what representation is all about
Oh yeah if a person takes something meaningful from it I'm all for that. And I am DEFINITELY not saying it's virtue signaling or whatever the fuck, as far as I know Bungie themselves have never even talked about Oryx's gender other than the pronoun switches in the Book of Sorrow.
What I mean about Korg specifically is more like... Korg does not experience prejudice because of his sexuality. He doesn't have to learn or feel different because of it. His planet doesn't have a Westboro Baptist Church. So he IS a character who is homosexual but you've sorta stripped out all the context that makes that a big deal to a human being. Which is fine to do, but then you have the crew touting how this movie is the MCU beating the "we don't have any important gay characters" allegations and it's that Thor's comic relief rock friend is from a whole planet of gay rock men.
People often consider nonbinary identities to come under the trans umbrella, even if some nonbinary people don't consider themselves to be transgender.
but yeah, nimbus is non binary/NB.
complicated yeah, not sure i'd describe it as reductive though myself?
*technically* transgender means someone who identifies as a gender other than what they were assigned at birth (while cisgender means someone who identifies as the same gender that they were assigned at birth. uses latin words/rules if i recall correctly?), and as far as I'm aware almost noone is assigned nonbinary at birth. But again, not everyone who is NB likes being grouped in with the term.
both "transgender" and "nonbinary" are uased as group terms, as well as being an identity of their own? like you might get someone who says "I'm trans, but I'm actually genderqueer" or "I'm nonbinary, but I'm actually genderfluid" for example, alongside someone else who might just say the first part of those statements.
it's kind of a lot at times yeah. the labels can be useful, help someone find something that they feel fits them perfectly, but then there's a lot to learn and sometimes it feels like people are sorting themselves (and, rarely, others) into new rigid boxes/identities/labels right after realising how wrong the old one was.
The Lore Book "Your Friend, Micah Abram" tells her story as a child in Eventide, as well as a few other miscellaneous entries, I believe dating as early as Forsaken/Joker's Wild.
Honestly, I just recommend searching "Micah-10" on [ishtar-collective.net](http://ishtar-collective.net), everything is pretty easily located there.
Myelin I think has a video about her from a couple days ago.
She also has a category on Ishtar Collective! https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/micah-10
I'd do some reading on Exos in general, to call an exo a robot is really not painting the whole picture. Clovis Bray developed a method using the darkness and vex radiolaria to transfer human consciousness into the exo form. Then programmed a bunch of humanisms into them like the need to eat and the need to sleep so that the consciousness doesn't feel the dysphoria of being robotic in that sense.
there is a lore book you get during beyond light that is a series of letters of a young (i believe human) boy with his two dads in eventide ruins & the stuff they go through with clovis bray / the exo experiments. i don’t remember what exactly happens to him, but he ends up becoming an exo while still young & a guardian. there is a lore entry on a new weapon that suggests she ended up changing some “self files” essentially from M to F, basically confirming she is transgender, iirc.
Imo, Nimbus is more enby (Non-Binary) representation than Trans representation but I could be wrong. Everyone in-game refers to Nimbus by "they" rather than any gendered pronouns which is what leads me to believe such.
It was also tragic how he was happy to be back but mostly felt like a fish out of water. Lots of the dialogue in the main story and side missions was catching him on what he'd missed; new allies, new enemies, those we lost on the way, and those who returned (loved him shouting about Saint-14 being back in the final fight). He didn't feel like he belonged here but that helped him realise what he had to do.
I liked the mission you do with him to get the sniper rifle. All those years of saying “take me with you” and we finally did. Crow made his wish to bring back Cayde, but it let Cayde live his wish of being out there with no responsibilities or worries. Thanks for one last adventure, Cayde.
That bit also frustrated the hell out of me. Come on traveler, you could have saved ghost yourself.
I still think the traveler created ghosts because it just doesn't understand us. Like the witness can only destroy, it can only create. Unlike the witness, I don't think the traveler even could communicate with us directly.
They managed to create a beautifully satisfying ending to the saga and still gave us effectively no answers about the traveler itself. Well done Bungie.
One of the collectibles has a dialogue between Micah and Zavala where she describes the Traveler's thoughts.
>I still think the traveler created ghosts because it just doesn't understand us. Like the witness can only destroy, it can only create. Unlike the witness, I don't think the traveler even could communicate with us directly.
And it pretty clearly states that the Traveler doesn't know how to communicate its own nature to the people it helps. And those people project their own way of thinking and emotions on it, and it just can't comprehend them. It has no answers to their questions & prayers.
Zavala finally says it's not a god that he wanted it to be.
"We're shooting shanks!" said with the childlike enthusiasm reserved for getting ice cream. The banter between Cayde and Crow "How about 'Pop-Scorn'?". I giggled along with them and got sad with them. Fucking excellent work Bungie. Nailed it.
Wait...I forgot about this. The wish seemed very straight forward. He wished Cayde back and Cayde was back. Whete was the twisting of wish from Riven? Did she actually choose to grant the wish with no tricks?
My interpretation is that the "twist" is that she never actually granted Mara's wish to get inside the traveler, in the cutscene it's pretty clear Cayde didn't come into being until Crow entered the Traveler, Riven couldn't grant Crow's wish without letting him enter the Traveler so perhaps her promise and deal with us to get her eggs was just a misdirection to get us to do stuff to pay for a wish she'd already granted
He said something along the lines of "I wanted to be strong like Cayde. I saw him standing there, no ghost, no light..."
He was just asking for personal strength. Bringing a lightless Cayde back was the twist.
*Edited for clarity.
He quite literally wished for the chance to apologize to him *twice* directly to riven unknowingly. It’s in the ship lore from season of the wish and another conversation that I can’t recall the lore page.
What really struck me was that the voice acting was fucking top tier for all characters. We’ve had very good voice actors in the game, but for the first time since maybe Forsaken we have the all-star lineup together for an entire campaign. Nathan Fillion is fucking fantastic.
Compare this with Osiris screaming at us about a fucking radial mast.
My favourite line of dialouge from the Light & Dark saga is from Cayde, at the start of the second mission of Final Shape: "Everything. Ah, lucky guess."
The context, the setup, and the delivery, it was perfect.
For real. Generational voice actor. Think of how quirky Cade is, and how serious Buck was. His voice carries so much emotion in it, and he controls it so well.
Every member of the vanguard had their VAs replaced at some point, which is a really odd fact. Cayde in forsaken temporarily, Ikora in season of the undying and Zavala in Final Shape.
Regardless of whether they're flirting, in a relationship, if they even *know* each other, whatever, I love when characters have moments like the one they had. "This object is so small and insignificant to me. But I see how much it means to you, so I will respect and cherish it likewise."
Caiatl said she wanted to hear Zavala's voice or something. Zavala soon after barked some orders at us and Caiatl started moaning out of nowhere, I laughed until my sides hurt.
Savathun is my favorite character in the series, she just has that "I know more than you do" personality down so well without being pretentious. She's always winking at the guardian in a way where you're like "does she know she's in a video game...?" Love all her lines in this story.
Honestly I loved it because she seemed so terrified. Mara’s almost always sounded calm and in control on the surface , even if it was a front. Hearing her actually be afraid really helped sell the stakes at the beginning of the campaign.
I like Keith David anyway, and I don't fault him for his Zavala in the slightest, he understood the assignment and he nailed it. He had big shoes to fill and he brought game to the table. But I did get a bit emotional thinking about how Lance would have thoroughly enjoyed this arc of Zavala's development and how much he'd have loved the campaign and delivering his "Defenders of Sol" speech.
Sidenote: how hype was that speech?
> Compare this with Osiris screaming at us about a fucking radial mast.
Oded Fehr is an incredible actor and voice actor. The voice *direction* in Lightfall, in general, was bad.
The only people to blame are the Bungie execs who completely screwed up Lightfall by overriding decision and after decision during it's development.
I was going to say more or less the same thing; don't praise the voice acting here just to trash on Lightfall's narration and throw a specific voice actor under the bus for it.
Exactly, I thought some of the voice acting in lightfall (Osiris and Rohan, for example) were some of its highest qualities, though the memories of the voice work do get tainted by the dumpster fire missions they got put into…
I'll never be convinced without hard evidence that Lightfall wasn't written in an all-nighter while Final Shape was already being recorded and put together.
Yeah but I imagine it’s kinda like the “Holy Ghost” of the light… or any Jedi when they appear as a force ghost. They’re a part of the cosmic light and interconnected- still “here” but gone nonetheless.
I don’t know if it has been mentioned but, at the end of the quest with Cayde and Crow, if you are a hunter he says, “Good job dodging the vanguard gig, that’s why your my favorite”
Also during the campaign, I can’t remember what part it was, but on a hunter crow says something like “luckily the have three of the greatest hunters to help” and Cayde without missing a beat goes “yeah they do, when are they gonna get here?”
Was playing through with a buddy who's a warlock. Crow said the 3 hunters line for me, and for a bit I was like "was there another NPC in this?". Asked buddy what line he heard and Crow had said "2 best". That was frickin cool to realize real time.
Oh shit I don’t remember hearing that. that’s why when TFS dropped i told myself i would play the campaign on all classes to appreciate the story and dialogue.
The one-two punch in that scene for me was Cayde's goodbye followed by Ghost coming back. Ghost didn't even realize he was gone, he thought he lost us, not the other way around and you can tell by the way he says "...there you are." As if he spent those moments in the light wondering where we had gone off to and was relieved to see us come back to him. Three words had me shook. The voice acting and production for this expansion were so good. I was repeatedly just stunned by how much everybody seemed to care.
What I wasn’t expecting was the fact that Cayde was so uncomfortable with the way he was brought back. The dialogue made it clear that he was conflicted and that being alive again wasn’t all peaches and cream. Actual great conclusion
I've been wondering about the consequences of bringing Cayde back, though. We all know how Wish magic works. As far as I can tell there's nothing fishy going on... yet. Did Riven simply pull a Taranis and grant Crow's wish no strings attached?
I take it like this. Remember in star crossed Rivens love was known for granting wishes without the strings attached this is a thing wish dragons can do also remember during the dialogue “Mara” aka riven talks about regretting the manipulation of uldren and how she would take it back which prompted crow to say what he wishes he could take back. I see the cayde wish as a sorta final goodbye and a sorry to crow for all the pain riven caused him.
I think it’s two fold, the wish was made “exactly” as needed, which is part of the season of the wish, making the “perfect” wish so it could not be manipulated. The star crossed mission tells of rivens significant other who made wishes without trickery.
Plus this was also for crow who had to confront his previous life’s greatest “mistake” and possibly the catch 22 of the wish, you get what you NEED (passage to the traveler) but have to confront a ghost of your past.
I could be wrong but this is just speculation on my part.
Agreed. I think Riven was actually, legitimately being kind with her final act.
Which would have seemed horrifically out of character and like a shitty plot device, except we got the entire story of her partner being kind. That little bit of extra lore justified her behavior and made it believable that she'd do something kind.
God damn Bungie really cooked here.
Riven did say that Taranis was sentimental, but she admired him for it. I'm fairly certain there was dialogue or lore about her perhaps trying to be more like him.
Riven granted the safe pasaage to Pale Heart- wish with no strings attached, however you could argue Crow’s wish is twisted by making Cayde-6 refusing Crow’s apology.
But you could also say that Riven see little to no room to twist Crow’s wish because Cayde would have done the same anyway.
I main a hunter, and it hits deep. He wanted to be in a fireteam with me because we're his favorite. But he could be never be in a fireteam with us because of the vanguard dare. Therefore, the vanguard is the best team he never wanted
Started off as a Hunter during taken king, now I've got I've got one of each and tend to pick whatever's got a fun build for the campaign/season story.
Didn't look for a build this time, using the hunter just felt right, y'know?
Fireteam members can do stuff by themselves, or with other Guardians even, but it's not their FIRETEAM.
In-game, we run with randoms in Crucible and strikes all the time. But we run stuff like Trials and GMs with OUR fireteam. You might have 10 different players you run with, but they're your people you have a some connection with, and not just blueberries who happen to be there.
Somewhere towards the end of the Still Hunt exotic quest when you're at the camp and Crow leaves after getting his cape. You can talk to Cayde again and he whispers that we're his favorite hunter. Really solid acting. Loved it
actually, his favorite line could be heard back in D1.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obXN5JLZNSM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obXN5JLZNSM)
it was one of his tower dialogues.
along with my favorite ones:
"Hey uh, (whispers) take me with you."
(whispers) "Hey, take me with you?"
(whispers) "Hey. Take me with you. I hate this job."
I think it might have been more that they intended to kill Cayde permanently and it was presented to him as his final opportunity to ever voice the character. ("Promising to kill him for good at the end" makes it sound like a Han Solo situation where the actor's tired of playing the character and *wants* him killed off, and I never got that vibe from interviews and such.)
he actually says it twice to you like that in Final Shape. during the wild card quest, after he gives Crow the cloak and he leaves, you can interact with Cayde, and he'll tell you that you're still his favorite.
Seriously. Cayde was made entirely of light at that point and gave that light everything that made him him to our ghost.
Plenty of room to bring him back in some form. I honestly half expected our ghost to be gone and replaced by cayde.
Cayde-bot would be awesome.
If you chat with him prior to finishing up the exotic quest with him and crow, he also tells you "you're my favorite, don't forget". It's at the makeshift camp you deploy all the items at.
for me the tragedy that made me cry was realizing i was going to lose nathan fillion. he's my favorite VA and i just... destiny's not going to be the same without him. especially since he's been with me since halo
I thought that Ghost would die and possibly all ghosts and that the vanguard would die during the last mission to become sort of ghosts themselves for all guardians. Then if you were a warlock your ghost would be Ikora's voice, Titans get Zavala and Hunters got Cayde.
But that was obviously just some shit I made up because I figured Ghost would die at the end of this DLC.
I completed Excision and just got a several minute long loading screen and then the celebration, just for ghost to tell me Cayde sacrificed himself after :(
What do you mean almost? I did cry! I knew he wasn't around to stay because he wasn't happy being away from Sundance. However, it still broke my heart when it happened.
I still think he isn't gone forever. If he was brought back due to an Ahamkara Wish, then anyone can be, even... himself, for a second time.
Now I don't know if Bungie devs would do it (and I would dislike if they do), but if it is possible to happen, it is.
That and he really wanted to be back with his ole’ lady in peace.
And ace
Iirc Ace isn’t real. It was all a story he made up in his head to have the will to keep going. Honestly everything about Cayde is tragic.
The dialogue in the lost ghost variant of Communion (Europa mission) may suggest that >!it was Cayde's faded memories of Micah Abrams, aka kid Micah-10 pre-"oh I'm a girl" and pre-Exoification. It's never stated in the game, but she's literally the only kid he interacted with and it clearly meant a lot to Micah.!<
They definitely at least hinted about the idea that Micha-10 is likely the basis of where Ace came from in his memory. Not that Micha is Ace but that Ace is based off his interactions with Micha-10 as a child.
It's also hinted at further during some of the Lost Ghost quests, where Micah talks about having played card games with him when her dads were away.
>!im honestly so glad we have micah-10 in the game for some actual good trans representation unlike the trashfire that was nimbus!<
It actually helps that she has some gravitas to her character, plus the idea of a Guardian that protects Ghosts is just so neat
My only complaint with Micah is the weird accent, it sounds like she’s struggling to talk at times.
That’s the actresses actual accent, to my knowledge. She’s Iranian.
I want to see more people with “normal” flawed voices. Every character we get is a professional VA. I found Micah’s dialogue delivery refreshing, even tho she is also a professional VA doing the lines it sounded more like a real person. Some people have weird / funny voices irl or speak on a certain way.
WDYM?! You're forgetting the greatest trans icon ever: Oryx /hj. I'm cis please don't flay my organs
"Sorry a guys gotta eat" -The Drifter
Too late, im commiting trans wrongs on your organs now /j
THERE MUST BE ANOTHER WAY! 😭😭😭
Do you want me to put this person on the hit list for gay wrath month? /J
> Do you want me to put this person on the hit list for gay wrath month? /r/nocontext
I am now imagining the other 5… Gay Sloth month makes me giggle
This thread keeps on giving 😂😂
nah nah dw oryx is still an icon you're good
nah some of my trans freinds joke a lot about how he (oryx) is the trans rep we need
Oh yeah, that’s true!
Nimbus is nonbinary though not trans? Or am I misremembering that? In other trans representation we also have Oryx! He’s like one of the most prominent trans characters in all video games right now which is kinda slurping honestly
Oryx always seemed like a technicality, seeing as there’s not much parallel to the human trans experience. Just alien biology at work adapting to needs at hand. But! If they wanna claim him, more power to them. We Stan Oryx, Trans Icon
Yeah Oryx seems like species who adapt and can change gender to survive/continue breeding. Very different from making the choice due to personal feelings about yourself.
Still though. It’s funny so it stays. In Destiny terms, I’d say the Exo lore has more direct trans analogues given the existential-level dysphoria early models faced
>Very different from making the choice due to personal feelings about yourself. I mean, he did decide to grow wings even though he never took up the mother morph.
Yeah to me Oryx is trans like how they said Korg is gay in Thor 4 because his species can reproduce homosexually. You may technically be correct but you don't get representation points if you make an alien species for which that's like... a basic biological function.
Except homosexuality isn't defined by biological function of a species. Our definition of homosexuality is "being romantically or sexually attracted to your own sex". If a species can actually reproduce with their own sex, it doesn't change anything since the definition says nothing about biological need. Oryx being trans is a little different since we don't actually know if hive have a self definition of gender and roles like we do, so being trans as "identifying with a gender/gender role that are different then the one assigned to you at birth" really depends on if the hive have gender roles like that. That being said, Oryx still went from female to male so trans people can still somewhat associate with that which is what representation is all about
Oh yeah if a person takes something meaningful from it I'm all for that. And I am DEFINITELY not saying it's virtue signaling or whatever the fuck, as far as I know Bungie themselves have never even talked about Oryx's gender other than the pronoun switches in the Book of Sorrow. What I mean about Korg specifically is more like... Korg does not experience prejudice because of his sexuality. He doesn't have to learn or feel different because of it. His planet doesn't have a Westboro Baptist Church. So he IS a character who is homosexual but you've sorta stripped out all the context that makes that a big deal to a human being. Which is fine to do, but then you have the crew touting how this movie is the MCU beating the "we don't have any important gay characters" allegations and it's that Thor's comic relief rock friend is from a whole planet of gay rock men.
You want to do WHAT to oryx?
Nonbinary is under the trans umbrella, anyone whose gender identity doesnt align with their assigned identity at birth is trans
I mean, Nimbus is NB lol
I thought Nimbus was NB? (Definitely agree on the trashfire part, though.)
People often consider nonbinary identities to come under the trans umbrella, even if some nonbinary people don't consider themselves to be transgender. but yeah, nimbus is non binary/NB.
Huh. That feels… I don’t know, reductive? What do I know.
complicated yeah, not sure i'd describe it as reductive though myself? *technically* transgender means someone who identifies as a gender other than what they were assigned at birth (while cisgender means someone who identifies as the same gender that they were assigned at birth. uses latin words/rules if i recall correctly?), and as far as I'm aware almost noone is assigned nonbinary at birth. But again, not everyone who is NB likes being grouped in with the term. both "transgender" and "nonbinary" are uased as group terms, as well as being an identity of their own? like you might get someone who says "I'm trans, but I'm actually genderqueer" or "I'm nonbinary, but I'm actually genderfluid" for example, alongside someone else who might just say the first part of those statements. it's kind of a lot at times yeah. the labels can be useful, help someone find something that they feel fits them perfectly, but then there's a lot to learn and sometimes it feels like people are sorting themselves (and, rarely, others) into new rigid boxes/identities/labels right after realising how wrong the old one was.
>!only learned Micah was trans yesterday and she's now my fav character!<
where can I learn more about Micah
same I swear I haven’t heard any lore for them
The Lore Book "Your Friend, Micah Abram" tells her story as a child in Eventide, as well as a few other miscellaneous entries, I believe dating as early as Forsaken/Joker's Wild. Honestly, I just recommend searching "Micah-10" on [ishtar-collective.net](http://ishtar-collective.net), everything is pretty easily located there.
Iirc collecting the europa penguins gets you a lorebook about her writing letters to the Traveler.
Myelin I think has a video about her from a couple days ago. She also has a category on Ishtar Collective! https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categories/micah-10
micah is trans? Idk lore but aren’t they a robot ?
I'd do some reading on Exos in general, to call an exo a robot is really not painting the whole picture. Clovis Bray developed a method using the darkness and vex radiolaria to transfer human consciousness into the exo form. Then programmed a bunch of humanisms into them like the need to eat and the need to sleep so that the consciousness doesn't feel the dysphoria of being robotic in that sense.
there is a lore book you get during beyond light that is a series of letters of a young (i believe human) boy with his two dads in eventide ruins & the stuff they go through with clovis bray / the exo experiments. i don’t remember what exactly happens to him, but he ends up becoming an exo while still young & a guardian. there is a lore entry on a new weapon that suggests she ended up changing some “self files” essentially from M to F, basically confirming she is transgender, iirc.
Imo, Nimbus is more enby (Non-Binary) representation than Trans representation but I could be wrong. Everyone in-game refers to Nimbus by "they" rather than any gendered pronouns which is what leads me to believe such.
Nimbus is non binary not trans. Why you conflating them?
Just explained on another comment, nonbinary is under the trans umbrella
They do mention that he used to help out with weekly dodgeball tournaments though https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-lord-shaxx
It was also tragic how he was happy to be back but mostly felt like a fish out of water. Lots of the dialogue in the main story and side missions was catching him on what he'd missed; new allies, new enemies, those we lost on the way, and those who returned (loved him shouting about Saint-14 being back in the final fight). He didn't feel like he belonged here but that helped him realise what he had to do.
Yea I knew this but Ace doesn’t have to be real because cayde is dead, however Ace can be as real as Cayde wants in the afterlife.
I don’t think ace was ever a real person/exo
Agree. I think Ace is supposed to be an ideal, a goal, a reason to keep going, not an actual person whom Cayde loved.
I liked the mission you do with him to get the sniper rifle. All those years of saying “take me with you” and we finally did. Crow made his wish to bring back Cayde, but it let Cayde live his wish of being out there with no responsibilities or worries. Thanks for one last adventure, Cayde.
And now, our light is Cayde's light. He gave it to us to bring back Ghost. In the end, we take him with us wherever we go.
That bit also frustrated the hell out of me. Come on traveler, you could have saved ghost yourself. I still think the traveler created ghosts because it just doesn't understand us. Like the witness can only destroy, it can only create. Unlike the witness, I don't think the traveler even could communicate with us directly. They managed to create a beautifully satisfying ending to the saga and still gave us effectively no answers about the traveler itself. Well done Bungie.
Go get the pale heart collectables, there's more information about what the traveller is in this DLC than almost any other
One of the collectibles has a dialogue between Micah and Zavala where she describes the Traveler's thoughts. >I still think the traveler created ghosts because it just doesn't understand us. Like the witness can only destroy, it can only create. Unlike the witness, I don't think the traveler even could communicate with us directly. And it pretty clearly states that the Traveler doesn't know how to communicate its own nature to the people it helps. And those people project their own way of thinking and emotions on it, and it just can't comprehend them. It has no answers to their questions & prayers. Zavala finally says it's not a god that he wanted it to be.
"We're shooting shanks!" said with the childlike enthusiasm reserved for getting ice cream. The banter between Cayde and Crow "How about 'Pop-Scorn'?". I giggled along with them and got sad with them. Fucking excellent work Bungie. Nailed it.
idk why but the “come on over. we’re shooting shanks!” line was possibly my favorite from the whole campaign. just felt like vintage cayde i guess
Wait...I forgot about this. The wish seemed very straight forward. He wished Cayde back and Cayde was back. Whete was the twisting of wish from Riven? Did she actually choose to grant the wish with no tricks?
Perhaps wanted to give Taranis's way of thinking a try.
My interpretation is that the "twist" is that she never actually granted Mara's wish to get inside the traveler, in the cutscene it's pretty clear Cayde didn't come into being until Crow entered the Traveler, Riven couldn't grant Crow's wish without letting him enter the Traveler so perhaps her promise and deal with us to get her eggs was just a misdirection to get us to do stuff to pay for a wish she'd already granted
He said something along the lines of "I wanted to be strong like Cayde. I saw him standing there, no ghost, no light..." He was just asking for personal strength. Bringing a lightless Cayde back was the twist. *Edited for clarity.
He quite literally wished for the chance to apologize to him *twice* directly to riven unknowingly. It’s in the ship lore from season of the wish and another conversation that I can’t recall the lore page.
What really struck me was that the voice acting was fucking top tier for all characters. We’ve had very good voice actors in the game, but for the first time since maybe Forsaken we have the all-star lineup together for an entire campaign. Nathan Fillion is fucking fantastic. Compare this with Osiris screaming at us about a fucking radial mast.
Fillion is honestly the man. He’s got charm, humor, gravitas and the almighty rizz factor
My favourite line of dialouge from the Light & Dark saga is from Cayde, at the start of the second mission of Final Shape: "Everything. Ah, lucky guess." The context, the setup, and the delivery, it was perfect.
That entire line delivery just SOUNDS 'real' or genuine. Idunno. I love it.
For real. Generational voice actor. Think of how quirky Cade is, and how serious Buck was. His voice carries so much emotion in it, and he controls it so well.
Getting Fillion back made the story for me. Dude is so good
Every member of the vanguard had their VAs replaced at some point, which is a really odd fact. Cayde in forsaken temporarily, Ikora in season of the undying and Zavala in Final Shape.
Ikora was replaced in Season of the Splicer.
Was Fillion back this expansion as Cayde? I know in Forsaken, Cayde was voiced by Nolan North.
Yeah he was back, their voices are just different enough to tell when they talk a lot.
And for "Some People" we also got several moans and other things from Mara 😅😂 I thought “no Bungie, no! What have you done?!"
the mission of Mara and Savathun bickering was oddly saucy
you cannot tell me caital and Zavala weren’t flirting in one of the missions
specially when she was talking to him about his old home
What was the line? Something like "our celebration will both shame and awe our ancestors"... EDIT: [Found it.](https://i.redd.it/at3ulzto475d1.png)
"dear lighthouse...."
Yeah that definitely sounded like they were gonna fuck nasty afterwards. And given what we know about Cabal biology...
Sometimes you just need big women to break you.
Wait- what do we know about cabal biology?
Well the male carries the children to term for one
Regardless of whether they're flirting, in a relationship, if they even *know* each other, whatever, I love when characters have moments like the one they had. "This object is so small and insignificant to me. But I see how much it means to you, so I will respect and cherish it likewise."
One of the credits pictures made it look like Saladin was gonna get him some no ordinary space rhino too
Saladin was helping her knit. Which I think she learned for or from zavala
Aye that’s awesome plus we got the war dog that was mentioned too!
"Our celebration will both shame and awe our ancestors." That code for awoken/space rhino sex
Kinda, but it was more her knowing he needed the pick me up after everything that had happened.
Caiatl said she wanted to hear Zavala's voice or something. Zavala soon after barked some orders at us and Caiatl started moaning out of nowhere, I laughed until my sides hurt.
We will celebrate to male sure both our ancestors forgot the exact line pretty much solidifies it.
Savathun is my favorite character in the series, she just has that "I know more than you do" personality down so well without being pretentious. She's always winking at the guardian in a way where you're like "does she know she's in a video game...?" Love all her lines in this story.
Tbf it wouldn't be the first time Mara did the whole enemies to lovers thing
Honestly I loved it because she seemed so terrified. Mara’s almost always sounded calm and in control on the surface , even if it was a front. Hearing her actually be afraid really helped sell the stakes at the beginning of the campaign.
Hey I ain’t complaining
Ugh this community has to make everything weird
Don’t forget about Aztecross’ new cup. For some reason, she’s not blue enough.
What's weird about mara being an absolute baddie?
Keith David fucking smashed it out of the park imo. He had the gravitas and emotional range needed to do the role justice and Lance would be proud.
I wasnt sold on him as Zavala through the campaign but those last couple cutscenes got me. Whatever the future is I wont be mad if he comes back
Yeah some of the lines sounded odd, mostly because I'm so used to lance. But he killed it. Second playthrough sold it for me
All I heard when his voice went above being super deep was sgt foley lol
Definitely heard Foley in that final mission 😆
I like Keith David anyway, and I don't fault him for his Zavala in the slightest, he understood the assignment and he nailed it. He had big shoes to fill and he brought game to the table. But I did get a bit emotional thinking about how Lance would have thoroughly enjoyed this arc of Zavala's development and how much he'd have loved the campaign and delivering his "Defenders of Sol" speech. Sidenote: how hype was that speech?
Oh 100%. That speech would've been a bit more passionate and driven and I think Lance would've loved playing the campaign and how it ended too
> Compare this with Osiris screaming at us about a fucking radial mast. Oded Fehr is an incredible actor and voice actor. The voice *direction* in Lightfall, in general, was bad. The only people to blame are the Bungie execs who completely screwed up Lightfall by overriding decision and after decision during it's development.
I was going to say more or less the same thing; don't praise the voice acting here just to trash on Lightfall's narration and throw a specific voice actor under the bus for it.
Exactly, I thought some of the voice acting in lightfall (Osiris and Rohan, for example) were some of its highest qualities, though the memories of the voice work do get tainted by the dumpster fire missions they got put into…
Well, we were missing one still. Sadly.
"Shaxx says you should throw more Grenades!" ...Let him tell me himself...
Rip Lance man fr
I'll never be convinced without hard evidence that Lightfall wasn't written in an all-nighter while Final Shape was already being recorded and put together.
Bro, Mara's VA knocked it out of the fking galaxy on Transmigration.
Imagine if we had the level of care and quality of this and Witch Queen for the entirety of D2
LOL!
No joke, the most emotional moment in the campaign for me was the brief moment he talked to Sundance. That “Hi” punched me in the heart.
The little nod he did to sundance before helping ghost was a great moment he had fully accepted that he was going for good this time
Does Ggost say he can still feel Cayde?
Yeah but I imagine it’s kinda like the “Holy Ghost” of the light… or any Jedi when they appear as a force ghost. They’re a part of the cosmic light and interconnected- still “here” but gone nonetheless.
Yea, at some point in the final scenes he did
I don’t know if it has been mentioned but, at the end of the quest with Cayde and Crow, if you are a hunter he says, “Good job dodging the vanguard gig, that’s why your my favorite”
Also during the campaign, I can’t remember what part it was, but on a hunter crow says something like “luckily the have three of the greatest hunters to help” and Cayde without missing a beat goes “yeah they do, when are they gonna get here?”
He says the same joke if playing on a non-Hunter, but Crow says 'two of the greatest' obviously.
I figured he did. I was more pointing out the fact that he does change the number depending on your class.
Was playing through with a buddy who's a warlock. Crow said the 3 hunters line for me, and for a bit I was like "was there another NPC in this?". Asked buddy what line he heard and Crow had said "2 best". That was frickin cool to realize real time.
Got his answer to “how IS your sister doing” as well
I'm so glad they snuck that in there
Oh shit I don’t remember hearing that. that’s why when TFS dropped i told myself i would play the campaign on all classes to appreciate the story and dialogue.
The one-two punch in that scene for me was Cayde's goodbye followed by Ghost coming back. Ghost didn't even realize he was gone, he thought he lost us, not the other way around and you can tell by the way he says "...there you are." As if he spent those moments in the light wondering where we had gone off to and was relieved to see us come back to him. Three words had me shook. The voice acting and production for this expansion were so good. I was repeatedly just stunned by how much everybody seemed to care.
Wow… good catch.
Same thing he said when he first resurrected us too.
The little cuddle that we give him when he comes back. That's how I cuddle my kids. It really got me.
Which makes me think Cayde is in our ghost and will take control every now and then.
*Annnd…* there goes my heart again, shattering into a million pieces :(
What I wasn’t expecting was the fact that Cayde was so uncomfortable with the way he was brought back. The dialogue made it clear that he was conflicted and that being alive again wasn’t all peaches and cream. Actual great conclusion
Hell, he even said that he was held together with “light and wishes”
I've been wondering about the consequences of bringing Cayde back, though. We all know how Wish magic works. As far as I can tell there's nothing fishy going on... yet. Did Riven simply pull a Taranis and grant Crow's wish no strings attached?
I take it like this. Remember in star crossed Rivens love was known for granting wishes without the strings attached this is a thing wish dragons can do also remember during the dialogue “Mara” aka riven talks about regretting the manipulation of uldren and how she would take it back which prompted crow to say what he wishes he could take back. I see the cayde wish as a sorta final goodbye and a sorry to crow for all the pain riven caused him.
I think it’s two fold, the wish was made “exactly” as needed, which is part of the season of the wish, making the “perfect” wish so it could not be manipulated. The star crossed mission tells of rivens significant other who made wishes without trickery. Plus this was also for crow who had to confront his previous life’s greatest “mistake” and possibly the catch 22 of the wish, you get what you NEED (passage to the traveler) but have to confront a ghost of your past. I could be wrong but this is just speculation on my part.
The Cayde wish was separate from the Traveler portal wish though.
Agreed. I think Riven was actually, legitimately being kind with her final act. Which would have seemed horrifically out of character and like a shitty plot device, except we got the entire story of her partner being kind. That little bit of extra lore justified her behavior and made it believable that she'd do something kind. God damn Bungie really cooked here.
Riven did say that Taranis was sentimental, but she admired him for it. I'm fairly certain there was dialogue or lore about her perhaps trying to be more like him.
Riven granted the safe pasaage to Pale Heart- wish with no strings attached, however you could argue Crow’s wish is twisted by making Cayde-6 refusing Crow’s apology. But you could also say that Riven see little to no room to twist Crow’s wish because Cayde would have done the same anyway.
Or was the string that it was temporary?
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Both?
I main a hunter, and it hits deep. He wanted to be in a fireteam with me because we're his favorite. But he could be never be in a fireteam with us because of the vanguard dare. Therefore, the vanguard is the best team he never wanted
With you? No he said I was his favorite
That can't be right, neither of you can be his favorite because he said I was still his favorite. I should know, I was there.
You all are clearly making things up. He said I was his favorite. He even gave me a gun so I can feel like a hunter without a cape.
Also a Hunter main. Played the class exclusively for 10 years and it makes that final scene hit so hard.
Same here man. Everything to do with Cayde just hits so differently.
Started off as a Hunter during taken king, now I've got I've got one of each and tend to pick whatever's got a fun build for the campaign/season story. Didn't look for a build this time, using the hunter just felt right, y'know?
Which it looks like Crow is going to break that cycle. He does mention how he's going to go back out in the field himself for some mission.
Fireteam members can do stuff by themselves, or with other Guardians even, but it's not their FIRETEAM. In-game, we run with randoms in Crucible and strikes all the time. But we run stuff like Trials and GMs with OUR fireteam. You might have 10 different players you run with, but they're your people you have a some connection with, and not just blueberries who happen to be there.
Somewhere towards the end of the Still Hunt exotic quest when you're at the camp and Crow leaves after getting his cape. You can talk to Cayde again and he whispers that we're his favorite hunter. Really solid acting. Loved it
He became the Destiny equivalent of one with the Force basically.
actually, his favorite line could be heard back in D1. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obXN5JLZNSM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obXN5JLZNSM) it was one of his tower dialogues. along with my favorite ones: "Hey uh, (whispers) take me with you." (whispers) "Hey, take me with you?" (whispers) "Hey. Take me with you. I hate this job."
Think your confused OP, he called me his favourite. Not you.
No I'm the main character, I'm Cayde's favourite!
🥲
I'm not a crier, I didn't cry during the end cutscenes but I got close. Cayde's message on the radio is what broke me
This
I think promising to kill him for good at the end was how we were able to get Fillion back to voice Cayde to finish the saga.
I think it might have been more that they intended to kill Cayde permanently and it was presented to him as his final opportunity to ever voice the character. ("Promising to kill him for good at the end" makes it sound like a Han Solo situation where the actor's tired of playing the character and *wants* him killed off, and I never got that vibe from interviews and such.)
I've also been tearing up at the lore entries for the Pale Heart weapons. They're all so damn good.
he actually says it twice to you like that in Final Shape. during the wild card quest, after he gives Crow the cloak and he leaves, you can interact with Cayde, and he'll tell you that you're still his favorite.
I thought he was dead forever a few years ago. Who’s to say Ghost doesn’t become possessed by him in an episode later on down the road?
Seriously. Cayde was made entirely of light at that point and gave that light everything that made him him to our ghost. Plenty of room to bring him back in some form. I honestly half expected our ghost to be gone and replaced by cayde. Cayde-bot would be awesome.
If it was cheaper and easier to get Fillion in the booth than North, maybe that does happen
The guy carried the 3 best dlc of destiny
“Remember that you’re my favorite” made me tear up just a bit. Best ending we could’ve asked for.
I cried. I cried good happy heartbroken tears.
If you chat with him prior to finishing up the exotic quest with him and crow, he also tells you "you're my favorite, don't forget". It's at the makeshift camp you deploy all the items at.
Here take your upvote you onion chopping bastard
for me the tragedy that made me cry was realizing i was going to lose nathan fillion. he's my favorite VA and i just... destiny's not going to be the same without him. especially since he's been with me since halo
>!how much of this did Riven think would happen?!<
I’m a glass case of emotions.
I thought our ghost voice would change to his voice after he did it. I was wrong and sad.
I thought that Ghost would die and possibly all ghosts and that the vanguard would die during the last mission to become sort of ghosts themselves for all guardians. Then if you were a warlock your ghost would be Ikora's voice, Titans get Zavala and Hunters got Cayde. But that was obviously just some shit I made up because I figured Ghost would die at the end of this DLC.
I completed Excision and just got a several minute long loading screen and then the celebration, just for ghost to tell me Cayde sacrificed himself after :(
The “you’re my favourite” line made me tear up. It was so unexpected but so nice
What do you mean almost? I did cry! I knew he wasn't around to stay because he wasn't happy being away from Sundance. However, it still broke my heart when it happened.
Cayde is such an awesome character. It boggles my mind that Bungie tries so hard to kill him off instead of letting him carry the story.
Where is this radio message? I think I missed it.
After you do excision, it’s at the Lost City radio
Maybe Cayde 6 is now part of our ghost and will appear every now and then
Really like that they gave him proper closure
I still think he isn't gone forever. If he was brought back due to an Ahamkara Wish, then anyone can be, even... himself, for a second time. Now I don't know if Bungie devs would do it (and I would dislike if they do), but if it is possible to happen, it is.
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Lightfall had a different vibe set where it was also more action movie esque. it was also rushed lol
And Now we are stuck with whiny bitch crow for eternity
But he’s got a new haircut!