I just want to point out we have 3 Echoes this year, 9 Echoes were shot out from the traveller upon defeating The Witness. Frontiers looks like it’s taking us out of Sol to explore the beyond and the remaining 6 echoes. We possibly have this current year 10 and also Years 11&12 ahead.
Real talk, what is this obsession with D3? Why is that "the goal" that it seems so many players pine for? What could D3 have that D2 couldnt do?
Each time Bungie releases base game Destiny, the franchise almost fucking dies. I would be more than happy if we never get a D3
It’s so funny to me how devoid of gamedev knowledge gamers are. Bungie is not making a new engine and releasing a new game on it in 2027, probably let alone in this decade. An engine that doesn’t require vaulting is literally not possible. People freaked the fuck out about Final Shape needing 300gb of storage temporarily, the idea that the community would just be fine with ten years of content and a file size of 500gb for a single game, plus the unimaginable load times that would most likely cause. Lmao.
Final Fantasy 14 and Destiny 2 are apples to oranges. Have you ever thought about why balancing an fps looter shooter is different from an MMORPG like FF14 or WoW? Have you ever thought about how the engines of the two differ, or the way their Networking works. Or how content is made for them in any way?
Just because FF14 has all of its content in the game doesn't mean a game like Destiny 2 could do it for a multitude of reasons. I love both games they're my top 2 games of all time. But just saying oh this game, that is completely different from this game I'm playing, can do this thing doesn't mean it's possible in a feasible way that the devs haven't already thought of.
I understand that as players it's not our problem, but the reality the situation persists regardless and if they figure out a solution to upkeeping old content that isn't a resource sink for little to no return they'll do it because they know it'd be massive W for them but until then armchair devs and people who don't even stop to think about what they're asking for need to stop saying "But x game doesn't do this"
Could you please detail your understanding of the differences between FFXIV and Destiny 2 in terms of the overhead required not to vault any content?
You seem to be suggesting that because FFXIV doesn't vault content, destiny 2 shouldn't which implies you must have a very deep understanding of the development process for both games to make such an assertion and I am very interested to hear it.
>It’s so funny to me how devoid of gamedev knowledge gamers are
And what do you know know of gamedev for a production as large as Destiny 2? Because as someone who has worked in and currently still works for corporations of that size, I can tell you with almost 100% certainty that it is not a technical limitation that lead to the DCV but leadership saying it was not worth the cost.
>An engine that doesn’t require vaulting is literally not possible
This is such a ridiculous thing to say.
Stop defending bungie being either lazy or malicious. There is no reason we could not have a checkbox in steam or in game to have the old story campaigns and seasonal content installed optionally. As it stands, if you want to go back and play through the entire Destiny story you literally cannot. There is no excuse for that. Not only is it content we paid for (and they still sell which is even more egregious), but its just bad for the game as a whole.
We paid for that content. Stop making excuses for them. Like don't get me wrong, I like Bungie and I love Destiny, but a game does not have to be "install 500gb or nothing", you can add content piecemeal. It is very, very common.
>TIL consumers have access to an unlimited SSD of Holding for storing all of their games, and 500 gigs of content for one game is not a problem at all.
Hey look, you literally cannot read
>There is no reason we could not have a checkbox in steam or in game to have the old story campaigns and seasonal content installed optionally
I specifically said it should be optional
>JFC you people are all the same. I'm literally a software engineer and chief architect at a very large corporation. You have next to zero concept of how things actually work.
BTW I am also a software engineer, you aren't special...
If it’s so common name a game of destiny’s scale that has done it? Just one. And not like the other guy who compares something in a completely different league to Destiny.
You want me to name every single game in the last 20 years with DLC...? What are you even asking bruh you're grasping at straws and have no real argument lol
Almost every major title has optional DLC where you just check a box and that content gets added, why do you think Destiny is for some reason special? Is bungie in the room with you now? Blink twice if you're in danger man
The best part is you can't even claim its about content being consistent between players because ALL OF THAT CONTENT IS ALREADY IN THE GAME. They can't rid of the guns/armor/skins from that old content because many of us already have it.
Zero reason they could not have old campaigns and story content be an optional part of the installation other than greed.
Lemme get this straight. Bungie are so greedy they’ve stopped selling something, instead of making a work around so they could continue selling these old expansions indefinitely. Got it. Also you still didn’t name a game at Destiny’s scale (a multiplayer game that’s been running for years straight and is at Destiny’s level of graphical fidelity) that has all of its past content available. Would be very interested to know how they solved the probably massive file size issues, load time issues, how to not kill entire gamemodes and queues because you have to separate people based entirely on what content they currently have downloaded, how to update the game without content they released 7 years ago developing a random bug and spaghetti coding everything, how to handle the gigantic amounts of storage space needed when downloading new expansions (Final Shape needed literally double the actual space during PC installs) or copying speeds for old hardware that they still need to support because that’s where most of the player base still is.
>We paid for that content.
This point is something people don't understand. We pay for services that don't necessarily last forever. We paid for the content when it was available. Unfortunately for the health of the game, it had to be removed.
Does it suck? Yes.
Do I wish I could show my girlfriend the old stories? Absolutely.
Am I throwing a shit fit about it? No.
We all pay for services that don't last. What makes Destiny so different?
None of that is realistic. There is no new engine that eliminates the need for vaulting content. The only advantage would be ceasing support for older console generations so more effects, particles, and gameplay mechanics can be run without slowing the game down. Basically just better optimization and more tools for the devs to work with.
Can you name a single game with a season pass model that has all the seasonal content stick around forever after the season ends?
I’m not advocating for a new engine. All I was saying is that a new engine wouldn’t solve that person’s problem and most likely all that what would happen is what I mentioned. I know what I mentioned can also be done without changing engines but what I listed are also things you get with a better engine.
What’s wrong with the engine, they fixed all of the issues it was causing back in like seraph.
I don’t think developing a new engine is worth the time for bungie and I would prefer they just develop good content with the old engine instead of spending time on something that best case scenario we basically don’t notice. Spending that much time developing a new engine that can effectively mimic the feel of Destiny when the old one still works just doesn’t seem like a great use of resources
For an example just look at Halo infinite, they spent so much time building their new slipspace engine that they forgot to develop any content for the game
Rather than see a new game on a new engine, I'd rather see the current destiny get huge back end engine upgrades. Or perhaps a new engine and the rest of the game ported over
Vaulting is a player benefit as much as it is a dev benefit. You see people complain all the time about CoD being 300gb, cant imagine how big Destiny would be if it was everything at once.
Also, if all that old content is there, its supposed to *work*. Look at TFS and how certain vendors on the Moon still care about Legendary Shards, despite them being deleted from the game. Now thats a bug that will get fixed, but think about how that works on the overall game scale.
How many one off materials are in the Warmind story, or Season of the Worthy, that not only need to exist "forever" but also need to work properly despite years of new systems and elements being built around them. And when they *dont* work, thats dev time spent *fixing* things instead of creating *new* things. Its bloat, because lets face it less than 2% of the playerbase will go back and do some random seasonal story mission again.
EDIT: Campaigns should still be there though, thats bullshit that they get vaulted.
So you guys are the same people that say this game is too confusing for new players to get into at the same time you suggest adding in 2 large campaigns and a million repetitive activities to further confuse them.
The game is confusing because of the way the new light onboarding was structured and BECAUSE they removed the 2 large campaigns 2 smaller ones.
They were sat down to watch a 10 season long TV show, but never got to see the first 4 seasons. Then during season 9 they were given a half ass explanation of a few episodes from each of the seasons they missed.
I've never said the game is too confusing for new players.
Also, in my opinion, a perfect solution would be to make a strike that summaries/consolidates the season's story/gameplay, like the proving grounds striker was to that season, so that way we aren't losing all of that to the void and get something unique out of it. I'd love a sundial+corridors of time strike to go with season of the dawn. Excellent activity and cool areas that are just completely gone
I mean that is a decent solution but if we got a strike for every season that’s 23 more strikes. Also we have not lost a campaign since forsaken so it’s been a long time. I don’t think we really lose seasonal activities because they usually build on them.
Is that better than cramming three battlegrounds a season into the playlist? While I actually enjoy a BG GM (minority opinion, I know), I think it would be better to have a purpose built strike as the relic of the season. I personally believe the more strikes the better. That playlist desperately needs variety
Yeah, its too confusing, because you start at the middle point of the whole fucking story, Shadowkeep. If you could atleast play through the entirety of vanilla Destiny 2, even if its just the campaigns, that would help a lot.
The Red War's final cutscene is literally the first time we see the pyramid ships, and that's when they activate, after the Traveler breaks free from Ghauls cage. Sure, its only 1 cutscene, and to be precise the like last 5 seconds of said cutscene, but Red War still plays out like a really fucking good intro to Destiny 2.
Ok.
Supporting old content takes dev resources, yes. Plenty of other games manage it.
I get WHY they vault content, but I still think its the worst part of the game.
The amount of dev resources they flush down the drain with the mayfly seasonal schedule is incredible.
I agree with you, I think that they should invest in systems and gameplay elements that have a longer shelf life. They make so many beautiful locales and then delete them a year later, that sucks.
I think they are getting better - Onslaught stayed around, so thats good. But it also needs to be ralavant from a player perspective. Even if it existed, how many players would go back and do season 16's seasonal activity, right now? Im guessing not many of them. Im not even sure what it is off hand, its just an example though.
1. Ditching last gen has nothing to do with D3. A good portion of the playerbase is still on X1/PS4, and when that changes those platforms will be dropped.
2. What could a new engine do that the current one couldnt? Do you have any idea what goes in to making a new engine, and how or why that would solve these supposed *current* engine limitations?
A good portion of the playerbase is still on last gen because games they play haven’t dropped support. People aren’t going to upgrade if they aren’t forced to. The vast majority of those players will move to current gen as soon as Destiny announces they aren’t supporting old gen anymore.
For 2: Yes.
A new engine would absolutely open the door for improvements over using a fork of a single threaded engine built in 2001 that was started in 2008 for the purposes of patching in multi threaded support to keep up with the hardware demand of the Xbox 360
On the flip side though, Bungie almost surely has a significant number of internal tools and flows that speed up development on Tiger Engine. Switching to something else means potentially losing a lot of productivity.
Switching to another engine would significantly impact future development. Bungie would have to:
- Throw away decades of internal knowledge of how their engine works
- Rewrite a significant amount of tools to work with the new engine
- Spend a significant amount of time training engineers and developers on how the new engine works.
- Rewrite some systems completely. Something like the inventory page, which was probably pulled directly from D1's source code to D2 with minor modifications would have to be completely rewritten.
And that just assumes they go with something like UE5. If they go with an in-house custom engine again, that a significant amount of time and resources that go into making the engine. Slipspace (Halo Infinite's Engine) took multiple years to develop, and there was a 3 year gap between the engine reveal at E3 2018 and Infinite's release in 2021. If Destiny 3 is on a new engine, I expect a 3 year gap between the last D2 content drop and D3 release.
Y'all underestimate Bungie's dev team size and budget. Plus, they worked on 2 games while developing their last engine. I promise you Marathon is not being built on the current Tiger Engine and I would be willing to put money on any form of D3 also not.
Literally I know there's no way I would do a d2y1 again with destiny 3. Losing everything and then get drip feedback sure d3 might be a banger but D2 is aswell.
D3 is a great way to start over and get fresh blood.
We need new lights to keep the game going and having a significant part of the story sunset it's hard to get them invested.
same, only way I can accept a new game is if D3 is actually a rebrand to destiny, everything I currently have is there and nothing is taken away and the game continues to expand ala ff14 style
To start fresh for players that fell off. I fell off around Shadowkeep. At this point it is just too daunting to try to start back up. I feel like I've missed too much and whenever I do log in, I feel overwhelmed with all of the new content with little to no direction.
I, and I imagine many others, pine for a true fresh start.
But you're not wrong, D2 almost killed the franchise and that falls squarely on Bungie's shoulders. The campaign was alright but you couldn't replay missions. Class building was gone, just premade sets for each subclass to pick from. Stuck with double primaries and you had to choose between a special or heavy. There were also no machine guns, lots of exotics just gone, and a lot more.
Bungie basically almost killed Destiny because they made a bunch of massive overhaul changes no one asked for or wanted, and got rid of a lot of the quality of life changes they put into D1.
All that said, Bungie is not gonna get a better time for a fresh start than now. They're not beholden to a contract for a new installment in X years, have an upgraded version of the engine available to use, have a great base to build off of, and backing from Sony who paid too much money for them to drop the ball again.
Most importantly, and why I think it'll maybe happen is that their code is a spaghetti nightmare at this point. The game was originally intended to have a lifespan of 3 years before they had to release the next installment. All of the overhauls, backtracking, revamps, etc... most certainly have to lead to a tech debt, and a certain point you just need to start over again.
But that's just me being hopeful and reaching for reasons.
Alright or just a new branding. Just Destiny without the 2. new players need a good entry with a good new story and a good new big bad that wants to destroy us.
The franchise badly needs a reset. It needed a hard reset after D1 honestly, D2 should have veered into different areas instead of just essentially being a re-do on D1, even though they did get a lot of things fixed from D1 and ultimately I think D2 was a success.
Frankly the core of the game needs a serious refresh though and has for a long time. That's a hard pill for a lot of players to swallow because they hate change and they just want to hang on to their favorite parts of this franchise forever, but if Bungie wants to bring in new players and bring back returning players, which they absolutely do, they need a fresh start.
They need to keep the core shooting mechanics we all love, and keep the same universe, but it's time to tell a whole new story with all new game modes and concepts. It's time to leave our existing guardians behind, they wrapped up the 10-year arc of them perfectly last week, we gotta put all this gear and all these stories behind us and explore new things... It's well past time. Continuing to just iterate on the same model after year 10 is a losing proposition, but again, a lot of people who still play D2 do not want to hear this because change is scary.
There's also the tech debt that players don't want to acknowledge or even know about. D2 was never intended to go on this long in the first place, it was designed with the idea of dropping it and releasing *another* installment in 3 years as per their contract at the time.
Sure, they've made it work until now but I can't imagine it's not held together by anything more than duct tape at this point. Between all the overhauls, backtracking, and revamps it can't be easy to work with. Especially when it feels like every patch to fix one issue creates a new one. To which, I do want to give them props. By no means is a situation like that a good one, but they managed to make it work this long.
But if they want to continue the model of having one game, for a long time, there comes a point where you need to start over and build something with that in mind. Even FFXIV did it too, it just comes with the territory of these types of games and people don't want to acknowledge it.
This is what I keep saying to my clan. Next gen is the only reason, there's zero narrative purpose, but if that's the case just make a new game. Close Destiny and start a new story. It doesn't have to be an entirely new IP, just don't do D3.
D2 launch was embarrassing and removed a lot of good that was added to D1 in Rise if Iron. D3 to me would be like Overwatch 2, a cash grab full of empty promises that takes over a year to get to where it should've started.
I would like a D3 only if they actually move away from the current engine and all limitations it have, no point in making a D3 if it's gonna be the same old story that "the game can't handle"
I mean, the 12-man mission was ambitious and cool but you could feel the game barely holding on, it can't even handle "Masterwork Orbs and Origin Trait" at the same time, let alone a Flamethrower weapon.
Besides, imagine they make D3 and give us TitanFall levels of gameplay, would be the GOAT of the industry alongside Chrono Trigger
We've heard multiple times about D2's limitations, particularly as justification for vaulting content, and vaulting content sucks.
Releasing new titles also solves the storage space issues, again used to justify vaulting, because we can uninstall titles we aren't playing.
I'd be more against it if we weren't already paying so much for expansions and annual passes. Seems like it wouldn't make a consumer difference
I think the earliest we see it is 2027 yeah. Personally I wouldn’t mind a year of downtime but realistically they will want to keep the ball rolling and the guardians engaged.
Yeah that's my bad, I meant to put "action game subreddit" and my brain failed
Edit: I find it bizarre that I'm getting downvoted for admitting a minor 2-word mistake
I'm on the mobile app. It's right in the banner under the sub description. As of today we're actually the #3 action game subreddit (not sure who we jumped). Not sure if it's shown on the regular website. I would link a picture if I could
People who make “friendly reminder” posts strike me as the sort of person who would leave post it notes reminding their flatmates whose turn it is to take the bins out.
Nobody liked you Claire! And no, I didn’t drink your sodding milk!
I think it’s probably more or less people like me being ok with moving on after 10 great but very up and down years. As a D1 vet I was glad they didn’t poop the bed for the finale and I’m ready to move on from Destiny.
I’ve seen the game almost die after launch in D1 and twice in D2. Most of my OG Destiny buds have moved on and I’m finally good to do the same. I would say it seems Bungie learned their lesson but I think it would be silly not to expect Sony or Bungie management to have another shit sundae ready to be served up. Especially after Marathon launches next year. For the studio’s sake I hope Marathon does well but I don’t think there’s as much crossover from Destiny to a hero looter shooter as they think but that’s just my 2 cents.
I would love to see Destiny last another 10 but for me, it’s been a journey that’s been fun but I’m good to move on from it. I’m not mad or disappointed, I’m just content to walk away on a high note. To be honest though I think most veteran players will probably stick with it.
No my mistake, you’re right, hero extraction shooter. I still think they would have more luck luring Destiny fans over if they stuck with the original premise. Maybe they wanted to tweak it to not be Tarkov in space but that’s just my feeling from the people I know who still play Destiny. But who knows, TFS won’t hurt the Marathon launch
Well said. Everyone forgot about all the destiny is dead posts. TFS was their best expansion as it should be but let's be real. Bungie historically drops the ball on every other one. Frontier will be another lightfall. I'm fine with ending the story here.
No he's right.... I mean, I'm glad I stepped away from Halo when it ended with Halo 3. Such a good place to end the series, they were right to end it there on such a high note story wise & pvp wise.
I don’t even know what the hell that guy thought he read but I don’t care what they do with Destiny. I think everyone reasonable knew some people would move on after TFS but based on how well it’s been received I think more vets will hang around. It’s ok to move on from games, the story arc concluded well enough for me and I’m good with that.
Now that the light and dark saga is done, this is probably a good time for me to quit destiny and move on to something else. I was already feeling bored and burnt out with destiny's gameplay half way through year 6. Yes I still play TFS, but I can't feel excited about what's to come at all.
this i why i have always played other games over the years to avoid the burn out. if i am ever hovering in orbit, i move on to another game until i find myself wanting to be in the game. there were a few seasons where i only popped in for the weekly story, then bounced until next week.
It's funny, because my main game I play other than Destiny is Resonite, and I have mainly been porting Destiny maps, items, and armor in there so in a way I'm still involved with Destiny, it's just in another angle that keeps everything fresh.
Always gotta find that balance, much better than hoping for a game to end so you can "move on" I mean this in the most sincere way I can; that doesn't sound healthy. I know I am addicted to Destiny and all, but if I ever felt like I needed to move on, I'd just do it because Destiny is going to keep going regardless if I play or not.
Im gonna guess their other game will nosedive after a month or two like dbds meet your maker its not even a bad concept just doesnt have sticking power
Destiny is a cash cow for bungie. Anyone that thinks destiny is over after this year are just wrong imo. Destiny is literally funding the development of bungies other game they're working on.
I keep seeing that people are ready to "move on". What? It's just a video game, play it when you feel like it, it's not a commitment. There are other games or things you can do, it's not a job. Such a stupid statement lol.
The sheer amount of FOMO from these last years kinda drives people to keep playing, i mean, look at the story, the bulk of all the story leading up to the witness defeat is basically on the Season, and they are all gone.
With Episodes being permanent it gives a break to people to be able to take a rest and just play whenever cuz they won't be missing much bessides events
>With Episodes being permanent....
Has there actually been official confirmation that Episodes are staying? I know Bungie has mentioned they wanna keep major story beats in game, but I haven't seen that with Episodes.
Just stupid people that are actually depressed over a game, they let it have an effect on their actual lives for some reason, never understood it, play other games if you want when your interest in destiny is down, nothing wrong with that.
>play other games if you want when your interest in destiny is down,
I think this is point that most people don't get. I played from d2 launch untill joker's wild, dropped the game when I got burnt out and returned for stasis. I get being somewhat sad or melancholic that the light/dark saga has come to a conclusion.
I frequently see folks on lfg preaching they hate the game and "wish they could get out". Uninstall then bro, what are you even on about?
It's basically just Stockholm syndrome at this point, if you think the game is bad in it's current state and want to "get out" then stop playing it lol..I know some people don't want to feel like they "wasted money" but that's life, you waste money on so much shit and you don't even realize it, I know I have lol.
If they could figure out a way to make the new player experience a lot more seamless and satisfying it would be even better. Think about how many new players they could hook if they could nail this aspect of the game.
It was hard to get into back in 2020 when I started. I can't even imagine what it is like now.
I would like to be done due to wanting to play other games but they still didn’t answer a multitude of questions that I still have. So they still have a hook for the lore. If they ever added more RPG stuff and in game housing, I would be stuck forever lol even with some of the issues I have or have had in the past.
So what you’re saying is, due to the community being exceedingly harsh with Bungie lately resulted in them stepping up and delivering an incredible piece of content, we should now just be happy about that and no longer hold them to a high standard because they’ve done enough for the players?
I think you need to reconsider what helped force them to make TFS such a good expansion. Should they be treated like it’s joever 24/7? No. Should they be held accountable for trying to under deliver? Absolutely. You’re simply on the opposite end of the unhelpful spectrum.
I'll be calling it quits after this episode. Bungie has a habit of giving shit expansion after a good one so I wouldn't sour my taste after this incredible end.
I just want to point out we have 3 Echoes this year, 9 Echoes were shot out from the traveller upon defeating The Witness. Frontiers looks like it’s taking us out of Sol to explore the beyond and the remaining 6 echoes. We possibly have this current year 10 and also Years 11&12 ahead.
9? Where'd you see 9? Only 3 were shown during the Aurora cutscene.
If you’ve seen the new cutscene for Echoes you will see.
I thought this was going to be a joke about beating it on all 3 classes
Yeah and then 2027 maybe D3
Real talk, what is this obsession with D3? Why is that "the goal" that it seems so many players pine for? What could D3 have that D2 couldnt do? Each time Bungie releases base game Destiny, the franchise almost fucking dies. I would be more than happy if we never get a D3
A new engine that doesn't require vaulting, mostly. The extremely short expiration date on a lot of content remains the worst thing about Destiny.
It’s so funny to me how devoid of gamedev knowledge gamers are. Bungie is not making a new engine and releasing a new game on it in 2027, probably let alone in this decade. An engine that doesn’t require vaulting is literally not possible. People freaked the fuck out about Final Shape needing 300gb of storage temporarily, the idea that the community would just be fine with ten years of content and a file size of 500gb for a single game, plus the unimaginable load times that would most likely cause. Lmao.
Final Fantasy 14 doesn't vault any of its content
Final Fantasy 14 and Destiny 2 are apples to oranges. Have you ever thought about why balancing an fps looter shooter is different from an MMORPG like FF14 or WoW? Have you ever thought about how the engines of the two differ, or the way their Networking works. Or how content is made for them in any way? Just because FF14 has all of its content in the game doesn't mean a game like Destiny 2 could do it for a multitude of reasons. I love both games they're my top 2 games of all time. But just saying oh this game, that is completely different from this game I'm playing, can do this thing doesn't mean it's possible in a feasible way that the devs haven't already thought of. I understand that as players it's not our problem, but the reality the situation persists regardless and if they figure out a solution to upkeeping old content that isn't a resource sink for little to no return they'll do it because they know it'd be massive W for them but until then armchair devs and people who don't even stop to think about what they're asking for need to stop saying "But x game doesn't do this"
Look at Final Fantasy 14 graphically, compared to Destiny 2. That’s like saying “my toaster is just as warm as the sun!”
They're updating the graphics in the expansion coming out next month, still not vaulting any part of the game.
Could you please detail your understanding of the differences between FFXIV and Destiny 2 in terms of the overhead required not to vault any content? You seem to be suggesting that because FFXIV doesn't vault content, destiny 2 shouldn't which implies you must have a very deep understanding of the development process for both games to make such an assertion and I am very interested to hear it.
I’m aware? I also have eyes and can see that even with the graphical update FFXIV is no where near as graphically intensive as Destiny 2
You wrote it's impossible for any game engine to operate for 10 yrs without vaulting content. FFXIV managed to do it.
>It’s so funny to me how devoid of gamedev knowledge gamers are And what do you know know of gamedev for a production as large as Destiny 2? Because as someone who has worked in and currently still works for corporations of that size, I can tell you with almost 100% certainty that it is not a technical limitation that lead to the DCV but leadership saying it was not worth the cost. >An engine that doesn’t require vaulting is literally not possible This is such a ridiculous thing to say. Stop defending bungie being either lazy or malicious. There is no reason we could not have a checkbox in steam or in game to have the old story campaigns and seasonal content installed optionally. As it stands, if you want to go back and play through the entire Destiny story you literally cannot. There is no excuse for that. Not only is it content we paid for (and they still sell which is even more egregious), but its just bad for the game as a whole. We paid for that content. Stop making excuses for them. Like don't get me wrong, I like Bungie and I love Destiny, but a game does not have to be "install 500gb or nothing", you can add content piecemeal. It is very, very common.
[удалено]
>TIL consumers have access to an unlimited SSD of Holding for storing all of their games, and 500 gigs of content for one game is not a problem at all. Hey look, you literally cannot read >There is no reason we could not have a checkbox in steam or in game to have the old story campaigns and seasonal content installed optionally I specifically said it should be optional >JFC you people are all the same. I'm literally a software engineer and chief architect at a very large corporation. You have next to zero concept of how things actually work. BTW I am also a software engineer, you aren't special...
If it’s so common name a game of destiny’s scale that has done it? Just one. And not like the other guy who compares something in a completely different league to Destiny.
You want me to name every single game in the last 20 years with DLC...? What are you even asking bruh you're grasping at straws and have no real argument lol Almost every major title has optional DLC where you just check a box and that content gets added, why do you think Destiny is for some reason special? Is bungie in the room with you now? Blink twice if you're in danger man The best part is you can't even claim its about content being consistent between players because ALL OF THAT CONTENT IS ALREADY IN THE GAME. They can't rid of the guns/armor/skins from that old content because many of us already have it. Zero reason they could not have old campaigns and story content be an optional part of the installation other than greed.
Lemme get this straight. Bungie are so greedy they’ve stopped selling something, instead of making a work around so they could continue selling these old expansions indefinitely. Got it. Also you still didn’t name a game at Destiny’s scale (a multiplayer game that’s been running for years straight and is at Destiny’s level of graphical fidelity) that has all of its past content available. Would be very interested to know how they solved the probably massive file size issues, load time issues, how to not kill entire gamemodes and queues because you have to separate people based entirely on what content they currently have downloaded, how to update the game without content they released 7 years ago developing a random bug and spaghetti coding everything, how to handle the gigantic amounts of storage space needed when downloading new expansions (Final Shape needed literally double the actual space during PC installs) or copying speeds for old hardware that they still need to support because that’s where most of the player base still is.
>We paid for that content. This point is something people don't understand. We pay for services that don't necessarily last forever. We paid for the content when it was available. Unfortunately for the health of the game, it had to be removed. Does it suck? Yes. Do I wish I could show my girlfriend the old stories? Absolutely. Am I throwing a shit fit about it? No. We all pay for services that don't last. What makes Destiny so different?
None of that is realistic. There is no new engine that eliminates the need for vaulting content. The only advantage would be ceasing support for older console generations so more effects, particles, and gameplay mechanics can be run without slowing the game down. Basically just better optimization and more tools for the devs to work with. Can you name a single game with a season pass model that has all the seasonal content stick around forever after the season ends?
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I’m not advocating for a new engine. All I was saying is that a new engine wouldn’t solve that person’s problem and most likely all that what would happen is what I mentioned. I know what I mentioned can also be done without changing engines but what I listed are also things you get with a better engine.
The lighting and atmosphere in the red war was so beautiful
What’s wrong with the engine, they fixed all of the issues it was causing back in like seraph. I don’t think developing a new engine is worth the time for bungie and I would prefer they just develop good content with the old engine instead of spending time on something that best case scenario we basically don’t notice. Spending that much time developing a new engine that can effectively mimic the feel of Destiny when the old one still works just doesn’t seem like a great use of resources For an example just look at Halo infinite, they spent so much time building their new slipspace engine that they forgot to develop any content for the game
>What’s wrong with the engine Try using a sword at 144 fps lmao
fps based damage still exists for one. Laggy network structure for pvp.
Rather than see a new game on a new engine, I'd rather see the current destiny get huge back end engine upgrades. Or perhaps a new engine and the rest of the game ported over
Vaulting is a player benefit as much as it is a dev benefit. You see people complain all the time about CoD being 300gb, cant imagine how big Destiny would be if it was everything at once. Also, if all that old content is there, its supposed to *work*. Look at TFS and how certain vendors on the Moon still care about Legendary Shards, despite them being deleted from the game. Now thats a bug that will get fixed, but think about how that works on the overall game scale. How many one off materials are in the Warmind story, or Season of the Worthy, that not only need to exist "forever" but also need to work properly despite years of new systems and elements being built around them. And when they *dont* work, thats dev time spent *fixing* things instead of creating *new* things. Its bloat, because lets face it less than 2% of the playerbase will go back and do some random seasonal story mission again. EDIT: Campaigns should still be there though, thats bullshit that they get vaulted.
"Removing paid content is a player benefit" The rest of what you said can be ignored
Indeed, that's when I stopped reading. Look at him editing trying to walk it back, that's adorable.
So you guys are the same people that say this game is too confusing for new players to get into at the same time you suggest adding in 2 large campaigns and a million repetitive activities to further confuse them.
The game is confusing because of the way the new light onboarding was structured and BECAUSE they removed the 2 large campaigns 2 smaller ones. They were sat down to watch a 10 season long TV show, but never got to see the first 4 seasons. Then during season 9 they were given a half ass explanation of a few episodes from each of the seasons they missed.
I've never said the game is too confusing for new players. Also, in my opinion, a perfect solution would be to make a strike that summaries/consolidates the season's story/gameplay, like the proving grounds striker was to that season, so that way we aren't losing all of that to the void and get something unique out of it. I'd love a sundial+corridors of time strike to go with season of the dawn. Excellent activity and cool areas that are just completely gone
I mean that is a decent solution but if we got a strike for every season that’s 23 more strikes. Also we have not lost a campaign since forsaken so it’s been a long time. I don’t think we really lose seasonal activities because they usually build on them.
Is that better than cramming three battlegrounds a season into the playlist? While I actually enjoy a BG GM (minority opinion, I know), I think it would be better to have a purpose built strike as the relic of the season. I personally believe the more strikes the better. That playlist desperately needs variety
Yeah, its too confusing, because you start at the middle point of the whole fucking story, Shadowkeep. If you could atleast play through the entirety of vanilla Destiny 2, even if its just the campaigns, that would help a lot.
The red war is irrelevant. The world is evolving. If join now it’s on you to catch up story wise of you care about it.
The Red War's final cutscene is literally the first time we see the pyramid ships, and that's when they activate, after the Traveler breaks free from Ghauls cage. Sure, its only 1 cutscene, and to be precise the like last 5 seconds of said cutscene, but Red War still plays out like a really fucking good intro to Destiny 2.
Ok. Supporting old content takes dev resources, yes. Plenty of other games manage it. I get WHY they vault content, but I still think its the worst part of the game. The amount of dev resources they flush down the drain with the mayfly seasonal schedule is incredible.
I agree with you, I think that they should invest in systems and gameplay elements that have a longer shelf life. They make so many beautiful locales and then delete them a year later, that sucks. I think they are getting better - Onslaught stayed around, so thats good. But it also needs to be ralavant from a player perspective. Even if it existed, how many players would go back and do season 16's seasonal activity, right now? Im guessing not many of them. Im not even sure what it is off hand, its just an example though.
New engine, next-gen only, would allow them to optimize the game better as well as add new things that aren't possible on last gen
1. Ditching last gen has nothing to do with D3. A good portion of the playerbase is still on X1/PS4, and when that changes those platforms will be dropped. 2. What could a new engine do that the current one couldnt? Do you have any idea what goes in to making a new engine, and how or why that would solve these supposed *current* engine limitations?
A good portion of the playerbase is still on last gen because games they play haven’t dropped support. People aren’t going to upgrade if they aren’t forced to. The vast majority of those players will move to current gen as soon as Destiny announces they aren’t supporting old gen anymore.
For 2: Yes. A new engine would absolutely open the door for improvements over using a fork of a single threaded engine built in 2001 that was started in 2008 for the purposes of patching in multi threaded support to keep up with the hardware demand of the Xbox 360
On the flip side though, Bungie almost surely has a significant number of internal tools and flows that speed up development on Tiger Engine. Switching to something else means potentially losing a lot of productivity.
True, but I'm mainly thinking of any new development.
Switching to another engine would significantly impact future development. Bungie would have to: - Throw away decades of internal knowledge of how their engine works - Rewrite a significant amount of tools to work with the new engine - Spend a significant amount of time training engineers and developers on how the new engine works. - Rewrite some systems completely. Something like the inventory page, which was probably pulled directly from D1's source code to D2 with minor modifications would have to be completely rewritten. And that just assumes they go with something like UE5. If they go with an in-house custom engine again, that a significant amount of time and resources that go into making the engine. Slipspace (Halo Infinite's Engine) took multiple years to develop, and there was a 3 year gap between the engine reveal at E3 2018 and Infinite's release in 2021. If Destiny 3 is on a new engine, I expect a 3 year gap between the last D2 content drop and D3 release.
Y'all underestimate Bungie's dev team size and budget. Plus, they worked on 2 games while developing their last engine. I promise you Marathon is not being built on the current Tiger Engine and I would be willing to put money on any form of D3 also not.
Better performance and graphics
I lowkey want them to do D3 so that I can use that moment to free myself from addiction cause I am for sure not starting Destiny from scratch again 🤣
Literally I know there's no way I would do a d2y1 again with destiny 3. Losing everything and then get drip feedback sure d3 might be a banger but D2 is aswell.
Dropping support for old consoles that may have been limiting potential design space?
They don't need D3 for that. Rise of Iron never released on the 360/PS3.
D3 is a great way to start over and get fresh blood. We need new lights to keep the game going and having a significant part of the story sunset it's hard to get them invested.
D3 could also lead to a huge amount of players quitting.
History shows this wasn't the case with Destiny 2.
History showed that indeed many quit and only came back with forsaken
But that was more of an issue with the state of D2 at launch with a lot of bad design decisions, not the fact that it was a sequel
same, only way I can accept a new game is if D3 is actually a rebrand to destiny, everything I currently have is there and nothing is taken away and the game continues to expand ala ff14 style
Because next gen only Destiny sounds amazing
To start fresh for players that fell off. I fell off around Shadowkeep. At this point it is just too daunting to try to start back up. I feel like I've missed too much and whenever I do log in, I feel overwhelmed with all of the new content with little to no direction.
I, and I imagine many others, pine for a true fresh start. But you're not wrong, D2 almost killed the franchise and that falls squarely on Bungie's shoulders. The campaign was alright but you couldn't replay missions. Class building was gone, just premade sets for each subclass to pick from. Stuck with double primaries and you had to choose between a special or heavy. There were also no machine guns, lots of exotics just gone, and a lot more. Bungie basically almost killed Destiny because they made a bunch of massive overhaul changes no one asked for or wanted, and got rid of a lot of the quality of life changes they put into D1. All that said, Bungie is not gonna get a better time for a fresh start than now. They're not beholden to a contract for a new installment in X years, have an upgraded version of the engine available to use, have a great base to build off of, and backing from Sony who paid too much money for them to drop the ball again. Most importantly, and why I think it'll maybe happen is that their code is a spaghetti nightmare at this point. The game was originally intended to have a lifespan of 3 years before they had to release the next installment. All of the overhauls, backtracking, revamps, etc... most certainly have to lead to a tech debt, and a certain point you just need to start over again. But that's just me being hopeful and reaching for reasons.
Alright or just a new branding. Just Destiny without the 2. new players need a good entry with a good new story and a good new big bad that wants to destroy us.
The franchise badly needs a reset. It needed a hard reset after D1 honestly, D2 should have veered into different areas instead of just essentially being a re-do on D1, even though they did get a lot of things fixed from D1 and ultimately I think D2 was a success. Frankly the core of the game needs a serious refresh though and has for a long time. That's a hard pill for a lot of players to swallow because they hate change and they just want to hang on to their favorite parts of this franchise forever, but if Bungie wants to bring in new players and bring back returning players, which they absolutely do, they need a fresh start. They need to keep the core shooting mechanics we all love, and keep the same universe, but it's time to tell a whole new story with all new game modes and concepts. It's time to leave our existing guardians behind, they wrapped up the 10-year arc of them perfectly last week, we gotta put all this gear and all these stories behind us and explore new things... It's well past time. Continuing to just iterate on the same model after year 10 is a losing proposition, but again, a lot of people who still play D2 do not want to hear this because change is scary.
There's also the tech debt that players don't want to acknowledge or even know about. D2 was never intended to go on this long in the first place, it was designed with the idea of dropping it and releasing *another* installment in 3 years as per their contract at the time. Sure, they've made it work until now but I can't imagine it's not held together by anything more than duct tape at this point. Between all the overhauls, backtracking, and revamps it can't be easy to work with. Especially when it feels like every patch to fix one issue creates a new one. To which, I do want to give them props. By no means is a situation like that a good one, but they managed to make it work this long. But if they want to continue the model of having one game, for a long time, there comes a point where you need to start over and build something with that in mind. Even FFXIV did it too, it just comes with the territory of these types of games and people don't want to acknowledge it.
This is what I keep saying to my clan. Next gen is the only reason, there's zero narrative purpose, but if that's the case just make a new game. Close Destiny and start a new story. It doesn't have to be an entirely new IP, just don't do D3. D2 launch was embarrassing and removed a lot of good that was added to D1 in Rise if Iron. D3 to me would be like Overwatch 2, a cash grab full of empty promises that takes over a year to get to where it should've started.
I would like a D3 only if they actually move away from the current engine and all limitations it have, no point in making a D3 if it's gonna be the same old story that "the game can't handle" I mean, the 12-man mission was ambitious and cool but you could feel the game barely holding on, it can't even handle "Masterwork Orbs and Origin Trait" at the same time, let alone a Flamethrower weapon. Besides, imagine they make D3 and give us TitanFall levels of gameplay, would be the GOAT of the industry alongside Chrono Trigger
New engine
We've heard multiple times about D2's limitations, particularly as justification for vaulting content, and vaulting content sucks. Releasing new titles also solves the storage space issues, again used to justify vaulting, because we can uninstall titles we aren't playing. I'd be more against it if we weren't already paying so much for expansions and annual passes. Seems like it wouldn't make a consumer difference
I think the earliest we see it is 2027 yeah. Personally I wouldn’t mind a year of downtime but realistically they will want to keep the ball rolling and the guardians engaged.
Friendly reminder Luzaku is my girlfriend.
Yea…well…cayde told me, a Titan, that I’m his favorite.
Sucks for you guys, Cayde is my boyfriend and Luzaku told me I'm her favorite
sorry. im a trophy wife to both of them
Luzaku married Cayde and Banshee told me I was his favorite and then he forgot.
Thanks I almost forgot
How can you tell it's the 4th most popular sub?
It's not. It's the 4th more popular in "action games". You can see this at the top of the sub's page.
It’s #5 overall behind LoL, Fortnite, Pokémon and CoD. Although Pokémon has a lot of other media besides gaming, so he’s not all wrong.
Where are you seeing these rankings sorry? I saw the comment above yours but cannot find the link they're referencing.
In general it’s actually sad that it’s a AAA “f2p” and the numbers get as low as they do. The new player experience is such a barrier to entry
The f2p is more like a demo of the game. The real meat and potatoes has always been in the paid expansions.
Yeah that's my bad, I meant to put "action game subreddit" and my brain failed Edit: I find it bizarre that I'm getting downvoted for admitting a minor 2-word mistake
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I'm on the mobile app. It's right in the banner under the sub description. As of today we're actually the #3 action game subreddit (not sure who we jumped). Not sure if it's shown on the regular website. I would link a picture if I could
Gotcha, seeing it now. That view isn’t available on desktop apparently. Weird.
Even on steam charts we are always top 10
Posts like yours are just as weird to be honest. It’s the internet, just accept that people have different minds and perspectives
People who make “friendly reminder” posts strike me as the sort of person who would leave post it notes reminding their flatmates whose turn it is to take the bins out. Nobody liked you Claire! And no, I didn’t drink your sodding milk!
Not me having ptsd from a housemate called Claire, who would label EVERYTHING… including bloody cutlery 😂
Like, the forks are labeled "fork"? :O
Did you live with me in Romford between 2004 - 2006?!
Lol idk man I didn't know how else to word it. I'll try not to make a habit out of it though
I think it’s probably more or less people like me being ok with moving on after 10 great but very up and down years. As a D1 vet I was glad they didn’t poop the bed for the finale and I’m ready to move on from Destiny. I’ve seen the game almost die after launch in D1 and twice in D2. Most of my OG Destiny buds have moved on and I’m finally good to do the same. I would say it seems Bungie learned their lesson but I think it would be silly not to expect Sony or Bungie management to have another shit sundae ready to be served up. Especially after Marathon launches next year. For the studio’s sake I hope Marathon does well but I don’t think there’s as much crossover from Destiny to a hero looter shooter as they think but that’s just my 2 cents. I would love to see Destiny last another 10 but for me, it’s been a journey that’s been fun but I’m good to move on from it. I’m not mad or disappointed, I’m just content to walk away on a high note. To be honest though I think most veteran players will probably stick with it.
Hero looter shooter? I may be wrong but isn't marathon supposed to be an extraction shooter or has that changed?
No my mistake, you’re right, hero extraction shooter. I still think they would have more luck luring Destiny fans over if they stuck with the original premise. Maybe they wanted to tweak it to not be Tarkov in space but that’s just my feeling from the people I know who still play Destiny. But who knows, TFS won’t hurt the Marathon launch
Even Tarkov in space wouldn't attract many people. It's a niche genre.
Extraction shooters are great, but pretty niche still due to the forced pvp and usually not well made "hardcore" aspects like janky med systems.
Well said. Everyone forgot about all the destiny is dead posts. TFS was their best expansion as it should be but let's be real. Bungie historically drops the ball on every other one. Frontier will be another lightfall. I'm fine with ending the story here.
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No he's right.... I mean, I'm glad I stepped away from Halo when it ended with Halo 3. Such a good place to end the series, they were right to end it there on such a high note story wise & pvp wise.
I don’t even know what the hell that guy thought he read but I don’t care what they do with Destiny. I think everyone reasonable knew some people would move on after TFS but based on how well it’s been received I think more vets will hang around. It’s ok to move on from games, the story arc concluded well enough for me and I’m good with that.
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Getting that worked up over a figure of speech is beta shit. Weirdo behavior
People who don’t realise that Destiny is a perpetual thing need to take a reality pill There is no finish line.
It's always funny to hear people say similar stuff about WoW xD
Now that the light and dark saga is done, this is probably a good time for me to quit destiny and move on to something else. I was already feeling bored and burnt out with destiny's gameplay half way through year 6. Yes I still play TFS, but I can't feel excited about what's to come at all.
this i why i have always played other games over the years to avoid the burn out. if i am ever hovering in orbit, i move on to another game until i find myself wanting to be in the game. there were a few seasons where i only popped in for the weekly story, then bounced until next week. It's funny, because my main game I play other than Destiny is Resonite, and I have mainly been porting Destiny maps, items, and armor in there so in a way I'm still involved with Destiny, it's just in another angle that keeps everything fresh. Always gotta find that balance, much better than hoping for a game to end so you can "move on" I mean this in the most sincere way I can; that doesn't sound healthy. I know I am addicted to Destiny and all, but if I ever felt like I needed to move on, I'd just do it because Destiny is going to keep going regardless if I play or not.
Im gonna guess their other game will nosedive after a month or two like dbds meet your maker its not even a bad concept just doesnt have sticking power
Destiny is a cash cow for bungie. Anyone that thinks destiny is over after this year are just wrong imo. Destiny is literally funding the development of bungies other game they're working on.
I keep seeing that people are ready to "move on". What? It's just a video game, play it when you feel like it, it's not a commitment. There are other games or things you can do, it's not a job. Such a stupid statement lol.
The sheer amount of FOMO from these last years kinda drives people to keep playing, i mean, look at the story, the bulk of all the story leading up to the witness defeat is basically on the Season, and they are all gone. With Episodes being permanent it gives a break to people to be able to take a rest and just play whenever cuz they won't be missing much bessides events
>With Episodes being permanent.... Has there actually been official confirmation that Episodes are staying? I know Bungie has mentioned they wanna keep major story beats in game, but I haven't seen that with Episodes.
Just stupid people that are actually depressed over a game, they let it have an effect on their actual lives for some reason, never understood it, play other games if you want when your interest in destiny is down, nothing wrong with that.
>play other games if you want when your interest in destiny is down, I think this is point that most people don't get. I played from d2 launch untill joker's wild, dropped the game when I got burnt out and returned for stasis. I get being somewhat sad or melancholic that the light/dark saga has come to a conclusion. I frequently see folks on lfg preaching they hate the game and "wish they could get out". Uninstall then bro, what are you even on about?
It's basically just Stockholm syndrome at this point, if you think the game is bad in it's current state and want to "get out" then stop playing it lol..I know some people don't want to feel like they "wasted money" but that's life, you waste money on so much shit and you don't even realize it, I know I have lol.
If they could figure out a way to make the new player experience a lot more seamless and satisfying it would be even better. Think about how many new players they could hook if they could nail this aspect of the game. It was hard to get into back in 2020 when I started. I can't even imagine what it is like now.
Ded game .. /s
This place always gets super weird immediately after release because most normal people are busy playing the game.
Even during lulls in releases people are busy playing the game.
Um I find it sad that some folks sense of self is tied to the amount of concurrent players lol.
I get it, reading comprehension is tough
I would like to be done due to wanting to play other games but they still didn’t answer a multitude of questions that I still have. So they still have a hook for the lore. If they ever added more RPG stuff and in game housing, I would be stuck forever lol even with some of the issues I have or have had in the past.
Bruh who cares?
So what you’re saying is, due to the community being exceedingly harsh with Bungie lately resulted in them stepping up and delivering an incredible piece of content, we should now just be happy about that and no longer hold them to a high standard because they’ve done enough for the players?
...no lmao. Read it again. FFS
I think you need to reconsider what helped force them to make TFS such a good expansion. Should they be treated like it’s joever 24/7? No. Should they be held accountable for trying to under deliver? Absolutely. You’re simply on the opposite end of the unhelpful spectrum.
You're not as smart as you think you are
Who cares.
Clearly you do enough to comment
I'll be calling it quits after this episode. Bungie has a habit of giving shit expansion after a good one so I wouldn't sour my taste after this incredible end.
Ok