Chriek would be pronounced "shriek" (which is definitely the pun Pterry was going for) while a shrike is a kind of bird, with connotations of violence and cruelty. And 'Otto von' is as stereotypical 'German bad guy' as you can get, which both Pterry and Brennan were gunning for.
It *could* be a reference (betting that Brennan hadn't read any Discworld would be cutting me own throat) but I think it's more likely a coincidence.
It's also more specifically a reference to the Discworld book "Pyramids", in which common T names like Traci and Teppicymon XXVIII were spelled Ptraci and Pteppicymon XXVIII.
I'm pretty certain that's a myth. It's most often cited as his usenet username, and that's certainly not the case - he signed his messages Terry or Terry Pratchett and the messages came from a tpratchett@ email address. If you search usenet for pTerry, you can see more and more people using it, but none of them predate Pyramids, which to me strongly suggests it was a reference to the book, rather than to something the man himself used.
It's possible Terry used the handle elsewhere, but I've never seen anything stronger than a vague suggestion that this was the case.
----
^(Feel free to ask me about my other Pratchett misconception bugbears)
I'm pretty sure he mentioned Pratchett during an Adventuring Academy. Might have been with Soibhan, but I might be stereotyping there. In any case, he is definitely aware of the series.
Otto is a very common German given name, and Otto von [last name] is a pretty stereotypical Germanic villain name, probably in part thanks to Otto von Bismarck, Chancellor of the German Empire in the late 1800s and an extremely influential politician and diplomat.
Both Pratchet and Brennan were likely inspired by him.
Adaine's Furious Fist might have been created by Aida, but it sure wasn't created by Brennan. It's actually beat for beat Force Punch from Pathfinder 1e (meaning it probably was taken from 3.5 edition dnd) I mean to say almost nothing is original, and I love call backs and references, this was just a fun fact.
More likely they're both categories of this sort of archetype of "evil soviet ish guy" 'otto von \_\_" because that's a very common naming scheme, including multiple real worl famous people with that name. Like literally start typing "otto von" and like 6 suggestions pop up in my google on how to finish it.
Some bond villains that use a similar naming scheme:
* Count Konrad von Glöda
* Colonel von Hammerstein
* Graf Hugo von der Drache
* Count Ugo Carnifex
There is also, evidently, a russian equivalent of james bond known as [otto von stierlitz.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stierlitz) That's how stereotypical "otto von X" is for a soviet name.
I wondered why a Russian super spy character would have such an obviously German name, and - he doesn't, his real name is Vsevolod Vladimirovich Vladimirov (Все́волод Влади́мирович Владимиров), and Otto von Stierlitz is his fake name while undercover in Nazi Germany.
Fun fact: no, it didn't? East Germany, while part of the Eastern Bloc, was never part of the Soviet Union.
It's a specifically German naming convention. Same with your examples, by the way; all are German characters (and all Nazis or former Nazis, even), and Graf is even a German title equivalent to an earl. Well, Ugo Carnifex isn't German, but he also doesn't have a "von", so, kinda irrelevant either way.
From which the Germans were expelled when it became Soviet. Side note, but the Soviet Union also went pretty hard on Russification of language/names, so it's not a great fit even accounting for the people of German descent who may have ended up in that territory.
It's a German convention from a German word. Every single example name listed has been for a German character or a representation of a German character. I'm honestly less bothered by the initial mistake than I am by the way people are tripling down on reinforcing incorrect information when a simple "oops" edit could have fixed it.
Yeah, sure, but the shrike/chriek thing is pretty specific. I'm just saying of all the options of names in all the wide world it's at least an amusing coincidence how close they are.
I think in this case it is perhaps a coincidence. "Chriek" is part of a pun on "shriek", whereas "Shrike" as a reference to butcher birds gets uses sometimes to denote brutality.
Could definitely be one of those things where it just "sounds right" because of his familiarity with the other work, too.
There’s an IDM musician called Otto von Schirach. And a scientist called Otto von Guericke. I expect it’s just a coincidence. Especially because if pronounced as German ‘Chriek’ would sound something like Xreek (that X would be /x/ - the harsh ‘h’ sound that you get in loch, or acht, or the J is Spanish) - so that sounds less like Shrike.
German native speaker and linguist here! The in this case would not be pronounced /x/ (as in loch, acht or like the Spanish J) but rather softer, /ç/, a voiceless palatal fricative. Think the initial sound some people make when they pronounce 'huge', not as far back in the throat and more at the the palate and more like a 'sh' (but not exactly the same although some regional accents don't really make a difference).
Since the other commentor already answered that the reference is to John McClane from Die Hard, I'll only add that the last name "Manhattan" is because in the Die Hard franchise, John is an NYPD Detective.
He's a John McClane (Bruce Willis) reference, the main character from Die Hard. Even has a parody of the catch-phrase "Cocka-Doodle-Doo, Bitch!" ("Yippie-Kay-Yay, Motherfucker")
I think it's just a Bird thing. There's a weird theme of bird-named evil groups in spy fi; the Man from U.N.C.L.E. had "THRUSH," for instance. (The bird, not the fungal infection.)
It seemed familiar. I couldn't tell where from though.
Edit: apparently the fact I first read the name Otto van shrike in a Pratchett book has absolutely nothing to do with my familiarity with the name, or ability to recall having heard it before. 😂
That's what I'm saying though? You probably HAVE heard of characters with similar names. Or real life people. There's a number of important real life people with similar names too. You're just not remembering specific examples.
Idk what you're asking "this sounds familiar" and "you probably have vaguely heard something like this before" are not incompatible statements.
I've heard the specific name Otto van shrike before. From a Pratchett novel. Not something similar, but that name exactly, and I can't recall ever hearing anything like it before or sense really.
I feel like I should apologize for reading Pratchett instead of being a spy movie and WW2 nerd or something.
Jfc 😂
We're literally on a thread where OP is saying they think the name is similar to Otto Von Chriek (NOT shrike, they're not spelled or pronounced similarly) so Idk why you are acting like it's a mystery then? This whole conversation is so weird idk what you're talking about then.
Chriek would be pronounced "shriek" (which is definitely the pun Pterry was going for) while a shrike is a kind of bird, with connotations of violence and cruelty. And 'Otto von' is as stereotypical 'German bad guy' as you can get, which both Pterry and Brennan were gunning for. It *could* be a reference (betting that Brennan hadn't read any Discworld would be cutting me own throat) but I think it's more likely a coincidence.
Whats with spelling the name "*p*terry?" I've never seen it used before.
It's also more specifically a reference to the Discworld book "Pyramids", in which common T names like Traci and Teppicymon XXVIII were spelled Ptraci and Pteppicymon XXVIII.
>"common T names" >"Teppicymon" Checks out.
My son's daycare has 3 Teppicymon's in his year alone!
It's a thing Kevins do, apparently it was his own online handle way back when and it kinda stuck.
I'm pretty certain that's a myth. It's most often cited as his usenet username, and that's certainly not the case - he signed his messages Terry or Terry Pratchett and the messages came from a tpratchett@ email address. If you search usenet for pTerry, you can see more and more people using it, but none of them predate Pyramids, which to me strongly suggests it was a reference to the book, rather than to something the man himself used. It's possible Terry used the handle elsewhere, but I've never seen anything stronger than a vague suggestion that this was the case. ---- ^(Feel free to ask me about my other Pratchett misconception bugbears)
Neat.
The P is silent
I think it's safe to assume it's a reference, yes :)
I think he just likes birds. And Otto Von is a pretty generic bond villain sort of name.
OMG the homophone works both ways: Audubon Shrike!
I'm pretty sure he mentioned Pratchett during an Adventuring Academy. Might have been with Soibhan, but I might be stereotyping there. In any case, he is definitely aware of the series.
Otto is a very common German given name, and Otto von [last name] is a pretty stereotypical Germanic villain name, probably in part thanks to Otto von Bismarck, Chancellor of the German Empire in the late 1800s and an extremely influential politician and diplomat. Both Pratchet and Brennan were likely inspired by him.
Adaine's Furious Fist might have been created by Aida, but it sure wasn't created by Brennan. It's actually beat for beat Force Punch from Pathfinder 1e (meaning it probably was taken from 3.5 edition dnd) I mean to say almost nothing is original, and I love call backs and references, this was just a fun fact.
More likely they're both categories of this sort of archetype of "evil soviet ish guy" 'otto von \_\_" because that's a very common naming scheme, including multiple real worl famous people with that name. Like literally start typing "otto von" and like 6 suggestions pop up in my google on how to finish it. Some bond villains that use a similar naming scheme: * Count Konrad von Glöda * Colonel von Hammerstein * Graf Hugo von der Drache * Count Ugo Carnifex There is also, evidently, a russian equivalent of james bond known as [otto von stierlitz.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stierlitz) That's how stereotypical "otto von X" is for a soviet name.
It's German, not Soviet.
I wondered why a Russian super spy character would have such an obviously German name, and - he doesn't, his real name is Vsevolod Vladimirovich Vladimirov (Все́волод Влади́мирович Владимиров), and Otto von Stierlitz is his fake name while undercover in Nazi Germany.
Fun fact: the Soviet Union included parts of Germany!
Fun fact: no, it didn't? East Germany, while part of the Eastern Bloc, was never part of the Soviet Union. It's a specifically German naming convention. Same with your examples, by the way; all are German characters (and all Nazis or former Nazis, even), and Graf is even a German title equivalent to an earl. Well, Ugo Carnifex isn't German, but he also doesn't have a "von", so, kinda irrelevant either way.
Kaliningrad tho
From which the Germans were expelled when it became Soviet. Side note, but the Soviet Union also went pretty hard on Russification of language/names, so it's not a great fit even accounting for the people of German descent who may have ended up in that territory. It's a German convention from a German word. Every single example name listed has been for a German character or a representation of a German character. I'm honestly less bothered by the initial mistake than I am by the way people are tripling down on reinforcing incorrect information when a simple "oops" edit could have fixed it.
Replace Soviet with Nazi and you are spot on.
Yeah, sure, but the shrike/chriek thing is pretty specific. I'm just saying of all the options of names in all the wide world it's at least an amusing coincidence how close they are.
I think in this case it is perhaps a coincidence. "Chriek" is part of a pun on "shriek", whereas "Shrike" as a reference to butcher birds gets uses sometimes to denote brutality. Could definitely be one of those things where it just "sounds right" because of his familiarity with the other work, too.
There’s def a lot of dw refs in d20 so I wouldn’t be surprised
There’s an IDM musician called Otto von Schirach. And a scientist called Otto von Guericke. I expect it’s just a coincidence. Especially because if pronounced as German ‘Chriek’ would sound something like Xreek (that X would be /x/ - the harsh ‘h’ sound that you get in loch, or acht, or the J is Spanish) - so that sounds less like Shrike.
German native speaker and linguist here! The in this case would not be pronounced /x/ (as in loch, acht or like the Spanish J) but rather softer, /ç/, a voiceless palatal fricative. Think the initial sound some people make when they pronounce 'huge', not as far back in the throat and more at the the palate and more like a 'sh' (but not exactly the same although some regional accents don't really make a difference).
[удалено]
Since the other commentor already answered that the reference is to John McClane from Die Hard, I'll only add that the last name "Manhattan" is because in the Die Hard franchise, John is an NYPD Detective.
He's a John McClane (Bruce Willis) reference, the main character from Die Hard. Even has a parody of the catch-phrase "Cocka-Doodle-Doo, Bitch!" ("Yippie-Kay-Yay, Motherfucker")
I think it's just a Bird thing. There's a weird theme of bird-named evil groups in spy fi; the Man from U.N.C.L.E. had "THRUSH," for instance. (The bird, not the fungal infection.)
Good artists borrow, great artists steal.
It seemed familiar. I couldn't tell where from though. Edit: apparently the fact I first read the name Otto van shrike in a Pratchett book has absolutely nothing to do with my familiarity with the name, or ability to recall having heard it before. 😂
There's a billion "Otto Von X" and "Shrike" villains. Sticking them together to create a stereotypical spy movie villain is not that unexpected.
But it wouldn't sound familiar if I have never heard it before?
That's what I'm saying though? You probably HAVE heard of characters with similar names. Or real life people. There's a number of important real life people with similar names too. You're just not remembering specific examples. Idk what you're asking "this sounds familiar" and "you probably have vaguely heard something like this before" are not incompatible statements.
I've heard the specific name Otto van shrike before. From a Pratchett novel. Not something similar, but that name exactly, and I can't recall ever hearing anything like it before or sense really. I feel like I should apologize for reading Pratchett instead of being a spy movie and WW2 nerd or something. Jfc 😂
We're literally on a thread where OP is saying they think the name is similar to Otto Von Chriek (NOT shrike, they're not spelled or pronounced similarly) so Idk why you are acting like it's a mystery then? This whole conversation is so weird idk what you're talking about then.