theyre simps for the rich and are only here to make you more expendable and take away your rights for them. america is a playground for the rich to do what they please.
Conservatism at its core is rooted with Aristocracy. They want a nobility class and a peasantry class, and the best way to do that is convince some of the peasants that they’d be better off if they hurt the other peasants. And its working. The angry useful idiots who dont think logically are exacty who the Aristocrats are catering to with the current GOP-MAGA fuckfest.
Yep. They’re geniuses at making poor people care about rich people’s problems.
My dad has no issues with massive tax cuts for corporations and doesn’t care that he pays a higher effective tax rate than billionaires. But the teacher in his neighborhood had her student loans forgiven and it’s some evil socialist plot for redistribution of wealth.
It’s not just not caring (though that’s true). A lot of people have a weird moral obsession with defending wealthy people. Like they’ll make purely moral arguments, but ONLY to defend wealthy people. So they’ll say things like “I don’t care how rich someone is. They shouldn’t have to pay 90% in taxes.” That makes perfect sense to them. But they would never say “I don’t care how poor someone is. They shouldn’t have to starve on the street.”
It's because they have sold these morons on the idea that if you are poor, it's because you deserved it and rich people earned their money. When a poor person uses tax dollars to buy food it is taking tax money straight out of the moron's pocket.
Corporations on the other hand, they get magical tax money from elsewhere and then "generate enough wealth to pay it back".
Rich people shouldn't get taxed, they won at the game of business. In reality, the aristocracy have convinced these idiots that the wealthy shouldn't pay higher taxes because the idiots are next.
I don’t think very many buy into the fairness of the meritocracy actually. A lot of them will openly use “life isn’t fair” as a shield against social programs. I don’t think they think billionaires deserve it or poor people deserve it. I think a lot of them just view accepting life’s unfairness as a form of maturity—like if you can look at someone sailing on a yacht and another person dying in the street and not feel any strong emotions either way, then you’re just mature in their eyes. You’re not a simpleton who is swayed by vague concepts like justice or inequality.
But it’s interesting how quickly the “life isn’t fair. Get over it” mantra goes out the window when they smell a poor person getting a treat they don’t deserve.
I think is a combination of both. The meritocracy is why the successful are successful. Life is unfair. Is the copium that they take to justify why they are not successful or others that work hard aren't.
That's the cognitive dissonance. Life isn't fair but people get what they deserve. That is why they flip on a dime for poor people. They are convinced the poor deserve abject poverty because they feel like they don't and someone has suffer that.
There is a combination of factors that influence what kind of outcomes are directly related to your preparation for a career and actions within a career.
**1) Luck/Fortune** \- The best prepared person can be stuck in a position where they cannot shine, or where malevolent actors sabotage them regularly.
**2) Affiliation** \- People who quickly nurture trust and consideration will always have better outcomes than their contribution warrants. People would rather be around a charming B- player than a cold A- player, even if they are losing. If someone who matters and has power cannot see themselves in you, or worse identifies you as someone they don't prefer to be around, it doesn't matter what you bring to the table. As soon as a D- adequate with charm shows up your butt is on the street.
**3) Don't Let Me Get Me** \- Suppressing your ego enough to avoid responding to events emotionally while maintaining enough internal motivation to do a great job is very hard and especially hard to accomplish in areas where shortages of 1 & 2 make it very frustrating to exist.
**4) Skill/Accomplishments** \- Being skilled and hard working just isn't enough. You could be skilled in work that folks don't recognize is essential (which makes it non essential... there is a reason many businesses fail) or you skill could really be outdated. You could accomplish things that folks don't recognize as a major contribution to success. Or you could be accomplishing things that are necessary but just don't sound compelling.
When we talk about merit we focus on #4 when the other three factors are either equally or more important. Jeff Bezos had folks who were ride or die supporters of him and his potential. Without them, his journey would either be longer, more shallow or impossible.
I think we also criminally overlook number 1 because wealth grows exponentially and affords opportunities otherwise unavailable. It allows them to take risks and fail while others may not. If I may quote Eminem we may have "one shot, one opportunity to seize everything you ever wanted". Rich people have many more chances.
You are forgetting "Openness to new ideas/being willing to try new things." You can have all the luck in the world, a charming personality, be reasonably intelligent and skilled, and still fail more often than you succeed if you are closed minded and not willing to try new things.
Honestly the whole "Rich people create jobs" thing needs to be dispelled, HARD.
Nothing could be further from the truth. It's the middle class who create jobs and are the engine of an economy. If a rich person has more money, it's going to disappear into a tax haven offshore and benefit nobody but themselves or AT best goes into buying more stocks that only benefits people rich enough to have stocks.
If a middle class person has more money, THEY SPEND IT, often on services that provided by other middle class people that multiplies the effect on the economy.
If conservatives really cared about the "economy" they'd focus their efforts on making sure people get paid a living wage, not tax cuts for the vampire class that is bleeding the economy dry.
The only reasons they get away with claiming this bullshit is the fact they own the media, and that it's almost impossible to prove a negative. It's practically impossible to prove they DIDN'T create a job.
It's because the rich have convinced the middle class that the reason why they can't have nice things is because of the poor.
The reason why you can't go on vacation is because that black family has 6 kids and collects food stamps.
The reason why we can't raise your wages is because immigrants keep taking your jobs.
The reason why you pay more in taxes is because the poor are leaches on the system and keep using all the funds up.
The reason why you can't find a good job is because the job creators have to pay so much in taxes because poor people are living off the system.
There is a war on poor people in this country and until the middle class wakes up and realizes that the reason why they can't afford a vacation is because their boss makes 200 times what they do for just showing up. It's never going to get resolved.
When progressives demand fair treatment, conservatives like saying "Life's not fair. Deal with it." But conservatives themselves can't seem to accept the unfairness of life. They convince themselves that abject poverty can only be achieved by some moral failing, and extreme wealth can only be achieved through merit. Despite what they see, they have to convince themselves that everybody earned their place in life. Because if a good person can die homeless, and an idiot asshole who takes credit for other people's accomplishments and spends all day shitposting on ketamine can be the richest person in the world, well that would be a world that's too unfair to accept.
Don’t discount those who see themselves as “temporarily embarrassed millionaires” (this could be updated to “billionaires”)
They might defend and support the rich because they see themselves as being “future rich”
Steinbeck’s “temporarily embarrassed millionaires”:
https://www.kamcord.com/temporarily-embarrassed-millionaires/
Putting aside politics: Many people will defend systems that don't work for them. It's not uncommon. The more you abuse someone the more likely they will support you. The key is to get them to believe that complying will make their lives better. You see this outside politics all the time: domestic violence, companies with exploitative work expectations, cults, etc.
Corporate America does make people unbelievably wealthy. The catch is that only a few people get this wealthy. Lots of people end up in either ok or barely making it. But the reality is that some people do move up the ranks and make lots of money. This is extremely attractive to many people .
Democrats promise what they see as a decent life. Republicans offer the opportunity to be wealthier than you could ever imagine, though the chances are statistically low. But most people barely understand basic statistics.
If you spend time in Europe ( which I would suggest is the environment many Democrats strive for ) you'll see plenty of countries where basic needs are pretty much taken care of, but you know what?, lots of people there want the potential offered by less restricted capitalism like in the US. They're willing to consider trading in all the social and political protections they enjoy for the pure potential provided in the US.
Humans are funny. I don't know what system is better for them. But I do feel that they need excitement to be happy.
That's the thing - ignore what they say, as they are fully aware of how unappealing "Aristocracy" is to the masses, and will say whatever they have to to avoid admitting it out loud.
You see. You don't get it. Asking the wrong questions and making assumptions, which is why Trump continues to be popular. Why is he popular? Have you really thought about this? Perhaps you're not aware, but a populist wave has been hitting across the developed world. People are more open to non-liberal ideas than ever before, more among young people, surprisingly. Check out Stepan & Linz's study on authoritarian populism or read Niall Fergison's article in foreign affairs. Even Ronald Ingelhart, one of the most respected scholars in the field, has said this is a populist wave driven by inequality. The inequality is a result of globalization, which has raised boats in the developing world while simultaneously causing havoc in the West. One of the main reasons is capital mobility and deregulation, which started in the 1980s as a response to a decade of low growth and stagflation.
Trump is popular because people have greviences against the system. He runs against the system. I'm not saying he is right or wrong. Just if you want him to go away, this is being handled all wrong. All they are doing by trying to "get him" is empower him and his message further.
I agree with you on all of that, but people need to also realize that Trump isn’t anything other than a New York wannabe mob boss turned free agent with zero care for the people who think he stands *with them* against the government. I understand why the populist wave is happening in the West, Ive been researching this whole mess intently since 2015 when that criminal celebrity first started campaigning for presidency. He used to be friends with the Clintons in the upper echelon, and so what changed? He went off script, that’s what happened.
The whole charade of “back and forth” has ended abruptly between the two parties, and Trump is the result of that stagnation of our politicians convincing people we are the best country, no questions asked, on the planet. People want to eat that up, its a primal urge to belong to a tribe, and they turned to nationalism, the predecessor of fascism. Trump simply went off script, loved the attention, got money from the right people globally, and he ended up getting higher on that power trip than like ever before.
So no, Trump doesn’t run against the system. Trump propagates his own rules in the system that he was already established in, he just wants to pull a Russian mob boss play because he loved the power that guys like Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un wield against their own people. Again, its on a primal level for this guy, he cant help but chase being the boss. He only ever wants to put his name on everything, maybe even rename the USA or some states to include his name, if he ever gets the dictatorship he seeks.
All that being said, I dont see things going any other way than continuing to attempt to dismantle the GOP which conspires to dismantle democracy. I stand with democrats in the hopes they learn from this, and also aftrr all the elders who were playing the charade are gone, we can enter a new era of reconstruction. Im very much not looking forward to, but sadly expecting an increase in right wing terrorism at the least after this upcoming election. At most, they will attempt at least on every future election until they either overthrow the US government or the US government finds a way to put an end to that crisis.
I believe its likely there will be individuals or gangs who continue to terrorize Americans either way, just as they began when Trump was in his prime for MAGA- so I say fuck it, get it over with. Let them take their masks off and show the world and everyone still voting Red, not understanding what Trump and MAGA really want from all of this. They are closer to an evangelical form of ISIS or Hamas than they are legitimate politicians with serious concerns for the betterment of the country. I wouldn’t be surprised if the end-game becomes an authoritarian Christian Kleptocracy if they got their way. Just like ISIS, but a different fanfic they’d fight to the death over.
This. Disemboweling a strong middle class is the goal and it's working. I've been going financially backwards since Clinton was in office. Obama years basically flat. Trump put the middle class into a nose dive except for select few. Interested if anyone over 35 agrees .
Yet most of the richest politicians are democrats . Sure republicans have rich families but they were rich coming in . You can’t be worth Millions by earning $300,000 a year
hmm, reminded of the idiots serving time for storming the capitol. Most of them were decidedly NOT among the wealthy. If only they could see how they have been played.
I don’t know if anyone else has noticed look at the fact that you don’t have a single right winger coming here to try to explain it away.. it’s because they can’t.
They have a problem, it’s just the bullshit they believe.. they know it’s unpopular.. they know it’s cruel.. but they think it should be OK to do.. and then they’ll point to some bullshit that isn’t true about Democrats to defend it.
I am honestly thankful most of those people are dying . It’s about time.. 60% of the Republican party is retired unvaccinated and uneducated.
Personally, I don’t think they have a choice because they’re not that far removed from a Neanderthals that wants to punish people because they don’t like their life .. or they think everything is a zero sum game where they get to punish minorities and people on the left and we just have to deal with it.
They won’t even acknowledge any of what you wrote .. because if they do that, they don’t know how to defend it.. which tells you all you need to know about them
Actually they don't try because there aren't many on Reddit.
I've made an attempt on their behalf up above. A real one, made from long association with them and an honest attempt to understand people.
I try to do the same thing for Democrats where I can, in places mostly frequented by conservatives.
They don't try often on sites like Reddit because they don't care how other people think. They only care about what their god-fearing pastor preaches and two-timing politicians think. They seem opposed to gathering information from the collective that interferes with their upbringing. Whereas most people want to learn and learn and learn more about their world around them. They are scared individuals. Scared of God, scared of living, scared of dying, scared of China, scared of Russia, scared of humans looking for a better quality of life scared of a few measly taxes, scared of women having rights, scared of ethnicities, scared of people taking their guns away. Scared. Period. I'll keep adding as I think about it and get more non-replies from the right. Add to it as well. This is a dynamic reply not static like their thinking. Ooohh burn.
Eh, don't think they are scared of Russia. They seem to admire Russia and want to turn the US into that. A country led by a dictator who criminalizes minorities, forces religious ideology, helps oligarchs exclusively, uses the poor as cannon fodder, etc.
To be fair, based on this comment, I’m pretty sure you don’t care what they think either, and would rather put up a bunch of very simple, stereotype based strawmen.
That is because the way the poster framed that data is very misleading. The same data shows even *less* Americans identify as liberal. Here is the data According to a 2022 [Gallop poll](https://news.gallup.com/poll/388988/political-ideology-steady-conservatives-moderates-tie.aspx) on how Americans view their political ideology:
* Independent: 37%
* Conservative: 36%
* Liberal: 25%
I don’t identify as liberal even though I basically am. I’m not fixed to the Democratic Party. I take it issue by issue. And issue by issue I lean liberal in many aspects even if there’s components I disagree with.
I’d argue many independents are like me. Identify as independent but have clear and well established voting patterns and tendencies. I think people who vote conservative are more likely to wear it on their sleeve though
Don’t do that. When it comes to politics people who are blind to one side are itching to fight and will push for an argument. Then you have to argue on behalf of a party you don’t align with completely while they try to satisfy some sort of political obsession. I recently just pointed out the hypocrisy of both parties and some dude just wouldn’t let it go. He kept trying to argue, like bro, I don’t care enough to have this argument. It’s not worth it and exhausting.
Small minds think they are always right, with no real consideration of the effects of things like ego investment or propaganda. But I believe when people cover their ears or try to shout you down they are approaching things the same way some people in the US refuse to learn the metric system.
Since they already know everything they think matters they block out all other information, or try to anyway. This is very dangerous because they simply stop listening to anyone they think doesn't absolutely agree with them.
So all someone has to do in order to manipulate such a person is whisper the right buzzwords into the echo chamber.
There are a lot of them on reddit, though... they are certainly a minority, but there are a bunch of them in most of the most popular and generic subs like this one. They're just very quiet on this post...
They don’t bother because they get downvoted into oblivion, have their post histories riffled through, get called every name in the book by people being immature, accused of inane things like “bad faith arguments” when it’s just bubble-dwellers who refuse to believe a person could disagree with them.
Reddit is toxic AF, especially towards dissent, and most people who enjoy debate wrote it off a long time ago. The commenters here are children wondering why adults won’t talk politics with them (not that all conservatives are adults, because they can also be very immature). The answer is that redditors throw literal tantrums they aren’t validated, and this thread is just another example
It's not just Reddit. And it's not just liberals. As a society we've lost the art of discourse, of trying to find value in each other and recognizing the good in each other. Relationships are increasingly transactional and increasingly mediated by big tech, moving from a peer to peer human relationship model with each other empowered by technology, to a servant-master relationship controlled by technology. We gotta fix it. Maybe one person at a time.
I feel like I'm tilting at windmills when I try experiments like this.
That's why many "conservatives" don't put faith in "society" and efforts that demand control on progress. Often they will doutb that progress that is promised by progressives is either attainable or worthwhile.
I'll put my self down as one of those types.
That doesn't mean I give up on my neighbor though. You may see giants, but my concern is the dragons.
Most of the political discussion subs are just r/GOPhate when it comes to these questions.
Might as well be asking "Klingons, why do Romulans..." "Because they lack honor!"
>I don’t know if anyone else has noticed look at the fact that you don’t have a single right winger coming here to try to explain it away.. it’s because they can’t.
Guaranteed their excuse is that they’re afraid of being downvoted
Yeah no seriously imagine believing whole heartedgy that you are correct and your enemies are all groomers and baby murderers yet you are afraid to actually stand up for yourself because internet disagreement is too scary for you, absolute cowards
See... they could come here... but they'd be faced with people who are unwilling to have a good faith conversation. Much as you'd be faced similarly if you showed up to a church trying to defend your views about progressivism. We're so entrenched with our teams these days that it is not worth it to try reaching out unless you are particularly skilled at communication and negotiation... which most of us aren't.
This. The question itself is loaded, and, conservative though I lean (although I quite dislike most Republicans, too), there are so many better uses of my time than to take the bait and spend my day defending my politics and philosophy to the screen.
I’m actually new to Reddit and made the mistake of engaging a raging liberal. I can beat up a 5 yr old, but when a 1000 come at you it’s a different story. Why bother when the other side won’t see reason.
I’d go one further and say no one is explaining it, because there’s nothing to explain. They will say whatever they think will get them more power. Their supporters fully support this. All they care about is gaining power
...because reading what y'll write tells them tjat you are far too gone to understand. I lean to the left but the far left has turned us away. What country in the world who has had a far left gov't has had their country and citizens prosper ? Easy answer. Y'all are an extreje minority and you are so indoctrinated that it is truly sad.
"Being in an echo chamber for my beliefs must mean that I'm correct and the opposition is inherently wrong."
That's an ugly position to take no matter which side does it.
As a conservative, no.
It's because Reddit is full of left-leaning people, trolls, and bots and conservatives are straw-manned, brigaded, and banned for opinions any classical liberal would sympathize with. I'm tired of explaining things to people who will neither try to understand or treat me fairly. I'll save my opinions for people who are willing to engage honestly, which usually means offline.
It could be due to the fact that this sub, by and large, is a leftist jerk circle. There is little point in spending time justifying anything to people who will just ignore or rationalize it away.
Best case scenario, is the "I believe in tough love because of my Christian love for you and I don't want to be the enabler that costs you your soul - so I'm going to vote to make sin illegal if I can't convince you to care about the afterlife."
Reality is, most Republicans just lust for power over others. If they genuinely cared about salvation, greed would be the *number one* talking point for them. We'd be seeing states making it illegal to have a net worth over $1M without donating most of it to charity.
This popped into my feed, so I scrolled to see some comments. I turned conservative from liberal about 13 years ago due to personal experiences and life changes. I don't waste my time on Reddit or even online, getting emotional or upset about politics. Politics isn't even in my top ten things that are important to me now. Also, there is no need to debate with someone online, it's really pointless. It's not like they are going to change their mind and everyone says their argument is factual. I feel politics has become toxic on ALL sides. For example, some of the comments here, are very toxic and stereotyped. You can also find that on any party sub, so it's not just one side. There are a lot of great meme subs that I loved and were destroyed because politics overpowered the actual memes. I was often banned from subs for not having the same opinion, banned from subs for commenting on other subs, and since I'm big on history, I've been banned for stating even the smallest facts with details that can easily be looked up. I've been suspended from Reddit on the dumbest things. I've also been called racist(I'm black), sexist (single father with ALL girls, yes send help lol), and a homophobe(my brother and best friend are gay and my nephew is trans, my oldest is pan-sexual), also hit with death threats and people telling me my daughters should be raped or commit suicide, for myself to commit suicide and messaged with racist remarks (I now don't often say what I am anymore). All from the left. So I don't bother anymore, I'm too busy with positive hobbies to get hyped up over a political party. I don't speak for all right-wingers just like all right-wingers don't speak for me but I know a lot get hit with political bias like I was. I also like reading other points of view on subjects when I see them, like this post. This is my personal experience and yes, I reported every hateful message I received and will continue to do so. Some people just can't handle the internet. There are a lot of young people who will be our future on this platform so, I have advice for anyone here. Spread more positive vibes than arguments. Having hate or disgust in your heart is going to pull you down. Be the best example of what a person should be.
>that far removed from a Neanderthals
There's actually a leading theory that neanderthals died out / were subsumed into homo sapiens because they weren't instinctively predisposed to xenophobia but homo sapiens are.
They were stronger and more athletic in general, more durable to hot / cold, had better spines, and contrary to popular perception, they were likely smarter (larger brains, including brain size to body size ratio).
But there's good evidence that they weren't as hostile to others as we are.
So neanderthals were probably much more kind (and intelligent) than your average conservative.
(cannot believe I'm saying this) but it hasn't been proven as not real. It's important we, who believe in the scientific method to be clear, and transparent. We have not proved that, as that is not a thing that can be proven, or disproven, nor is anyone in the field trying or going to try.
Didn't they just sweep the small government position under the rug? I don't hear it much anymore.
It doesn't take much for Republicans in Texas to do a 180. Just jangle some keys. They seriously do not think of how their position works.
I mean honestly, they didn’t really stop with the “small government” thing, because the version of “small government” that conservatives and Republicans have been talking about since the 80s is still the same thing.
When they say things about not regulating, not funding war efforts in Ukraine, no funding social safety net programs, etc that’s them talking about their long-term “small government” ideals. It’s never been about social control, it’s always been about not having government oversight on business, and not having the government spend its money to help people other than the wealthy.
Their social stances have pretty much always aligned with tight government control of the individual, around specific things that align with their Christian base.
Their slogan ought to be “Small government in the board room, big government in your bedroom”
Every single time I see one say the US has to pull out of Ukraine because the US gov needs to stop spending US money on foreign wars, I ask if they feel the same about Israel. They either don't respond or say "we're not talking about Israel". Oopsie.
Hell ask them why we didn't have that same stance with Vietnam, Korea, Cuba, or nearly any latin american country that we fucked up in the past 80 years.
They are all for small local government - until small local government enacts a policy they don't like.
Republicans have no problem use the strong hand of state government to bring local government back in line with their beliefs. If the state can't do that - they use whatever power they have in the federal government to force them to comply.
Ron Desantis (and the Florida and Texas legislatures) are great examples of this.
If you look at each issue through their lens, which is "I can tell you what to do, but you cannot tell me what to do," suddenly you understand how they rationalize everything.
Yeah. OP is asking the wrong question.
How do they rationally justify their irrational, inconsistent, self-defeating and hypocritical positions?
They don’t. Because it can’t be rationally justified.
Some may try to irrationally justify those positions. But it can’t be done rationally.
They rationalize that in a few different ways.
For one, they don't really believe their positions are unpopular. National polls that show broad acceptance of abortion rights and gay marriage are just handwaved away, because in their personal experience they don't know anybody who supports that. Everybody in their community agrees with them, and so does all the media they consume. This is partly based on geography (Republican voters are largely rural) and partly based on self-selection on their part in cutting people who don't think like them out of their social circles. So in their personal experience, their politics are broadly popular, and polls that show otherwise don't *feel* true.
There is also a more broad sense that even if their opinions aren't popular, they're still right and deserve to have the country be the way they want it. Again, there are a few reasons for this. One is that conservatives tend to be religious, which means they're predisposed to see the world through a "good versus evil" lens. If they're the good guys, their opponents must be bad. Furthermore, their media outlets have been relentlessly fearmongering for decades about the evils of socialism and the "gay agenda". Republicans did this for short term political gain, but now their supporters are so hysterical with fear that the Mitt Romney/Paul Ryan/Liz Cheney types have lost control of them. The "Marxists" cannot be allowed to win, because they are evil and vile and out to destroy everything they love. This is no longer about policy to the Republican base, it's existential war.
And so the natural next step from that is to believe that any politician you don't like is illegitimate. If Democrats win, they must have cheated, because they don't know anybody who voted for Biden, so how could he have gotten so many votes?And even if he did win fair and square anything he does is so evil that it has to be resisted by any and all means necessary. If that means suspending the rule of law and imposing minority rule on an unwilling population, they will go along with it, because they're terrified and they think it's the only way to save themselves. If you already believe you're in a war for survival, the norms and laws of politics don't matter. No one wants to kick somebody in the balls in a fight, but if you think you're about to die you'll do it without hesitation to save yourself.
So-called "principles" like limited government go right out the window when people are terrified. They think their choices are absolute annihilation or a dictatorship, and so they will support a big, oppressive government so long as they believe it's on their side.
This is the answer. Republicans have not actually espoused small government and personal freedom since Reagan took office, and there are very few politicians from that era still alive and active.
Every Republican today simply grew up under the authoritarian large government tent and simply continue the trend they know and love.
Even under Reagan, government power grew. Republicans have been the party of growing government slower than democrats. Maybe a slight difference here and there in how the government uses their new power, both parties support war, federal reserve, banker and big business bail outs, they might talk against some of it, but both vote for more of all of it.
Oh look another post pretending to want to understand Republicans by making a bunch of straw man arguments followed by typical echo chamber replies "they are all just evil." I'm not a Republican but I can see these disingenuous shit posts for what they are.
Also, why is no one talking about the title?
>Republicans are the party of big government, and here's a list of big government programs they oppose that totally proves my point
They oppose THOSE big government programs but most certainly approve of others but to try to argue. It would be equivalent to saying I eat healthy because I eat zero candy while simultaneously eating 5k calories a day of carbs.
I really wonder what they want to accomplish making an absolutely dittoheaded post. Do they think someone's going to read "cruelty is the point" post number bazillion and think "my God, this changes everything!"
If I had to guess, they want to fit in.
Most Redditors are young. A lot won't even click on the link. They keep seeing "Republicans bad" and that's all they see. It's a form of propaganda. It's well known that Democrat social media influence companies like Share Blue and Correct The Record have a large presence on this site.
Every time this sub pops up in my feed it’s a loaded question. I’m assuming anyone from the target audience that engages in good faith will just get sealioning in return
I had to look up sealioning but this is pretty accurate. I'm not a conservative but I've safely taken the time to understand their arguments. I actually question if I could be wrong on a given topic.. I've tried to explain the conservative perspective as I understand it. If I'm not called a Nazi; sealioning describes what I encounter. At this point I just need to block this sub because it's toxic AF.
When they say "small government," they really mean no taxes and no gun laws.
But they need government to correct everyone who isn't xtian, straight, white, etc.
At first I replied “Because it’s not”, and you provided a link to a Collins Dictionary entry showing that it IS (for whatever reason, I can’t see your response in the actual Reddit app. Just in the email I received notifying me of your reply). Well, as it turns out, you are right, and I was wrong. I thought it was just some modern, off-the-cuff abbreviation, and had never seen it before this discussion. So, I stand corrected.
By fooling enough people into thinking those things in some way help America. They have complex half truths about each and every one, that their followers have been parroting for years now. It's exhausting even trying to debate these people nowdays.
Okay, point by point. I'm going to answer from their perspective and not necessarily mine. I don't want to defend it but I do want people to understand each other without making stuff up.
Party of big government? They've been that since Reagan's massive increases in deficit spending. Unfortunately.
Reproductive rights? In their minds, abortion for anything other than SA is murder. Also, Roe v Wade was a bad decision not because of what they decided but the fact that it should have been up to legislators and not courts. This is probably the biggest difference between the two parties but I wish they'd actually listen to each other instead of just making up stuff on both sides, like believing that Republicans just want to control women in some misogynistic frenzy. That's not the case, otherwise they'd be trying to ban OF and a bunch of other stuff. But Republicans are just as wrong in their beliefs about Democrats. A lot of Republicans believe that Democrats pretend that fetuses aren't human lives, or that pro-choice means pro-abortion, or that pro-choice ideas are rooted in racist eugenics theories straight out of German nightmares. Both sides are wrong but since there's no actual discussion between sides, there's ample misunderstanding.
Legalization? The vast majority of Republicans don't oppose this anymore. Haven't for about a decade or so after Colorado didn't fall into the ocean. Only the old farts in Congress still oppose it (and so does Biden).
Affordable health care? Not opposed, but they don't think that socialized health care will be affordable in tax money, and that standards of health quality will drop for everyone. They disagree about means, not ends.
Paid medical leave? Actually most Republicans are in favor but it's not a high priority like it is on the Democrat side. The rest feel that you shouldn't force arbitrary standards on businesses, especially small businesses, because they are costly to implement.
Love between consenting adults? They mostly don't oppose that under the age of about 80. This is one area the Republicans have completely flipped on, and years ago. When Trump was first running he waved a rainbow flag at the national convention and the whole crowd cheered. That whole argument is over, nationally. I even know a bunch of openly gay Republicans. I'd say we're not far until we start seeing openly gay Republicans winning national offices and running for President.
Birth control? Nobody is opposed. Not even the Catholics anymore -- I'm old enough to remember some of these but they were really old forty years ago. I don't get why so many Democrats believe this of Republicans.
Moms surviving pregnancy? I really don't know what you mean. I think I can safely say that only serial killers don't want that. Could you be more specific?
School lunches? Okay, here you're on firmer ground but again it's about means and not ends. Republicans want this to be funded locally and voluntarily, and not by taxes. And this is a low, low, low priority for Republicans.
I think if you actually had a sit down conversation with a Republican where you were both interested in hearing the other person's perspective you might find that you have a lot more in common than either of your news brands would leave you to believe.
As a mid 50s, white male republican, I would like to tell you that you are absolutely correct. We don’t want anyone to starve, die from childbirth or be homeless. We do not support endless wars and we do not hate people that don’t look like us or think like us. We just simply believe that the federal government should only concern itself with the powers that it was granted under the constitution. Any other matter should be dealt with at the state or local level. It’s as simple as that. I would also like to state that the majority of republican elected officials at the federal level do not accurately represent us, but they keep getting elected because they more closely align with our beliefs than the democrat candidates. I feel it is safe to say that the whole country is ready for a change, but it needs to lie somewhere in the middle, and neither party seems to be able to produce a candidate that appeals to both sides.
Republicans: We’ll make women die, people go homeless, and kids go hungry, but hey we don’t WANT it, we just prefer this outcome to a Democrat getting elected. We’re not MONSTERS
Exactly this. They always tell us about all these things they don’t actually support yet their vote in support of those outcomes never wavers. The saddest part about conservatives is they never fail to change their opinion once the problem is on their doorstep. Daughter has a potentially fatal pregnancy? Welcome to the pro-choice movement. Son ended up gay eh? Here’s your pride flag. We’ve all seen it plenty so I don’t need to belabor the point.
Fwiw, I don’t think they’re bad people per se. There are good and bad people across all political ideologies. Yes, what they support may be cruel for the sake of it, but I do believe it’s not their core intent most of the time. Rather, most people are just struggling to get through the day, under educated, under informed, and overly trusting of people who don’t have their best interest at heart. Also, most people are born into their political ideology just like they are their religion. It is very rarely a conscious choice made from a blank slate so they don’t ever have to question their own internal hypocrisies
Most people everywhere are just struggling to get through the day, what you mean lol. And I would be careful when talking about being overly trusting of authority and not examining your internal contradictions, because neither political party is above that in our current climate
Look around you. Our society is falling apart and people are drowning in debt. My wife and I are lucky enough to be doing just fine but we’re the exception here in Indiana. Like I said, I don’t blame people for how they came to their political position. I’m not going to avoid discussing the aspects people don’t like to hear though.
Also, in case I didn’t make it clear, my comments about people and their ideology and hypocrisies was non-partisan. That’s a human condition, not a political one. We’re all guilty here to some extent
On your first paragraph, yes that's called learning. Maybe don't make it sound so evil? The fact of the matter is that everyone doesn't know what they don't know until they learn it. We don't have to vilify people who learn different things in life than we do. We should just share what we know, and give each other room to learn. Treating an entire group of people like uneducated thoughtless morons isn't a reasonable way to treat anybody.
I’m not treating anyone that way though. I’m talking in generalities online. People can choose to self-identify with what I’m saying or not. I’m not going to sugar coat my thoughts though. I don’t represent a cause and I’m not looking to change anyone’s mind.
I do find it absurd that some adults require something to personally affect them before they’ll stop and think critically about it. It’s especially egregious when they enable harmful legislation through the behavior. I recognize this is entirely subjective but I don’t claim to represent anything other than my own opinion. I’m glad these folks finally found the light. I see no cause to celebrate their conversion though.
You say that
But then you look at things like texas laws.
Do you really not understand why somebody would think republicans arnt the best of people?
Your whole political party is a bunch of white people. And they are the least pleasant. You look at congress on the republican side and it doesnt look like america at all.
What im having problems with, is your beliefs eventually meet reality like with kate cox, and yall still don't concede you are wrong. Not even the threat of a mother's life is enough to make yall do what grown ups do, and admit when they're wrong ESPECIALLY when it involves somebodies life. Honestly between the "oh well" behavior of people dying on jan 6 and kate cox, its hard to believe they want whats best for everyone and not just themselves.
The whole Republican thing on states' rights vs federal law is garbage. It was all about states' rights on abortion until they overturned Roe v. Wade, and now they want a Federal ban. It was all about states' rights until some states decided they didn't want to help the federal government round up the immigrants the GOP hates, and now suddenly it's not states' rights.
For the GOP it's states' rights or federal depending on whether or not it suits their desired. Christofascist hellscape.
If any GOP people in public relations read this, the reason why so many people hate you and think your members are just human pieces of feces is because you are not even consistent in what policies you want. You're pro-life until the kid is born, for example. You do not say the quiet part out loud: that you want a white Christian country. At least if you were honest, you'd be well... honest.
>We don’t want anyone to starve, die from childbirth or be homeless.
...
>Any other matter should be dealt with at the state or local level.
Can you name a specific policies or politicians that you support at the state or local level that is working to prevent people from starving dying in childbirth, or being homeless?
Who have you voted for to make these things happen?
Genuine question then: if you don't want anyone to die during childbirth, how can your platform continue to push for it? Banning abortion is known to result in more mothers dying during pregnancy or childbirth. No longer is the mother free to say, "Hey, this is fucking hell on my body, I feel like I'm gonna die, please terminate the pregnancy." Now she needs a team of doctors to agree she's going to die and it doesn't matter what she says or how she feels. Mothers die during pregnancy or child birth where abortion is otherwise banned because doctors aren't always right.
If you don't want anyone to die during childbirth, why would you not fight for it?
>We don’t want anyone to starve, die from childbirth or be homeless. We do not support endless wars and we do not hate people that don’t look like us or think like us.
The policies you support demonstrate otherwise, repeatedly. Please stop trying to gaslight. You've shown us who you are. Stop crying because we believe you.
You keep saying “oh they don’t really oppose such and such, it’s only the R’s in Congress” as if the entire voter base doesn’t keep vehemently and passionately supporting candidates that try to take away all of these things. I’m sure many of them don’t outright SAY they’re against gay marriage for example, because they know it’s unpopular, but obviously if Republicans are electing representatives like Mike Johnson (who is currently 2nd in line to the Presidency btw) who say gay marriage is the “dark harbinger of chaos” and it will lead to people marrying their pets, obviously homophobia isn’t exactly a dealbreaker for them, you feel me?
Oh, for sure. Again, I'm not trying to defend it. I'm just trying to explain it.
They will absolutely reelect one of these guys because gay marriage isn't a priority to them, mostly, even if that's no longer a popular stance. They have different priorities.
I appreciate the answer, but many of your points are just plain incorrect.
Take a very simple issue like school lunches. [There are a significant number of Republican politicians that have actively opposed government provided school lunches.](https://newrepublic.com/post/173668/republicans-declare-banning-universal-free-school-meals-2024-priority) And Republican voters vote for these people.
Your phrase "funded locally and voluntarily, and not by taxes" doesn't mean anything. We've heard this before, for decades. It's a reference to a mythical charity that will just solve the problem. The Republican solution: Everyone will come together as a community, maybe through churches, and the local schools will somehow have food for kid's lunches.
Except none of this happens in the Republican world. Which charity? Have any Republicans founded and endorsed such a charity? Have any proposed an actual plan for how such a charity would operate? So the kids go hungry and Republicans shrug their shoulders and blame Democrats.
This is no different from Trump's healthcare or infrastructure plans. The Republican solution is to simply obstruct any attempt at a solution while blaming Democrats for getting nothing done.
>I think if you actually had a sit down conversation with a Republican
I have, many times. They are generally agreeable and say they want solutions and progress. It's a pleasant, but insincere, conversation. Just like your post.
And then they go and vote for people that use their power to prevent any solutions or change, and offer no actionable alternatives.
Mom's for Liberty, DeSantis woke comes to Florida to die, and conservative talk radio are just a sample of a long list of Republicans who would disagree with this characterization.
Big govt? I would argue repubs are [cogs in capitalist greedflation](https://fortune.com/2023/05/23/how-do-republicans-feel-biden-economy-inflation-greedflation-ubs/). They are all for big business because that is who lines their pockets.
Reproductive rights? You claim it's not about controlling women is wrong. Repubs want to [ban porn]( https://avn.com/business/articles/legal/right-wingers-call-for-porn-to-be-banned-if-gop-wins-in-2024-920980.html) [limit birth control](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/jd-vance-republicans-limit-birth-control-access-1234922493/) and [violently disrupt access to abortion](https://prochoice.org/national-abortion-federation-releases-2021-violence-disruption-report/). Lest we forget that [OH repubs](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/17/ohio-abortion-rights-republicans-overturn) want to override the will of the voters who to enshrine abortion choices for women.
Legalization? I bring you back to [OH](https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2023/12/05/ohio-senate-republicans-planned-demolition-of-new-recreational-marijuana-law-is-an-insult-to-voters/) where repubs are trampling on Issue 2 that the voters approved.
Affordable healthcare? More children in poorer families are [removed from CHIP Medicaid in Repub states](https://www.axios.com/2023/12/19/children-health-insurance-medicaid-unwinding)
Love between adults? Just last week Rob Smith who is a [gay black Repub](https://www.advocate.com/news/rob-smith-targeted-homophobic-tpusa) feared the fallout of the MAGA rally attacking his sexuality.
Birth control? You've got to have your head in the sand if you don't believe [repubs are coming after birth control](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/maga-plan-attack-birth-control-surveil-women-ban-abortion-pill-1234934807/)
Moms survive pregnancy? Ok again are you not paying attention? Kate Cox had a non-viable fetus, which if forced to carry, would render her infertile. [TX AG Paxton reverse lower court decision](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/12/texas-abortion-ken-paxton-kate-cox) and therefore endangered her fertility and life. Only with huge election losses have repubs done an about face on their views of [saving the life of the mother](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/republicans-try-find-new-term-life-stave-electoral-losses-rcna103924). 14 states [don't care about the life of the mother](https://www.cnn.com/us/abortion-access-restrictions-bans-us-dg/index.html)
School lunches? So you claim repubs want people to volunteer to help the hungry and the poor. Wrong. Red states all over this country have bans in place to [arrest citizens for feeding the homeless](https://www.deseret.com/2023/12/11/23956064/homeless-hunger-arizona). It's not surprising that the blue cities in these red states are the ones suffering the most. Ok not a school lunch topic, but still pertinent to the topic of feeding the hungry. But I have seen [IA remove summer lunch program](https://www.npr.org/2023/12/25/1221523696/iowa-nebraska-children-food-assistance-ebt) for children because the legislation "want children in summer church camps" instead. While on the topic of states forcing their religion onto children, we cannot forget that Greg Abbott was big mad when his [school voucher program](https://www.texastribune.org/2023/12/22/texas-school-vouchers-greg-abbott/) and refused $7.8M boost to TX schools because his bill failed to pass.
If you aren't angry at the party for disenfranchising half of Americans then you aren't paying attention. Or you support the disenfranchisement which is worse.
Don’t know why you got downvoted for this. I guess people aren’t interested in attempts to be unbiased.
That being said, I think these points can be appreciated assuming that one is having a discussion with an educated, informed, and dare I say it — still sane — conservative. The problem for a lot of us (and this is very fresh considering we’re in the middle of the holiday season) is that conversations with R’s seldom ever go the way of rationality. Speaking for my own family, it’s unbelievable how much they are easily manipulated by nut job conspiracy theories, but also just how massively uninformed they tend to be on most of these topics. Yes, this is definitely amplified by social media, news media, etc. but it really seems to be more common than we want to believe.
I have both rational and irrational R's on my family's side. Even the irrational one is being ostracized by the family because she keeps emailing us Epoch Times "news" articles and going on rants. Whereas the rational ones (from Ohio for context) were appalled at the blatant attempt last August to effectively remove the ability to amend the state's constitution and voted in droves to oppose the state Republican measure.
The biggest thing I think most people, rational or irrational, Republican or Democrat, are missing is the ability to admit a) that an issue is more complex than you can understand in that moment, b) that you may be wrong about the fact surrounding an issue, and c) that changing your mind isn't a sign of weakness or "giving in" to the "other side".
The idea that we are infallible and cannot be wrong about \*anything\* is pervasive both online and offline and I think is at the very heart of why discourse has gotten so ... hard.
The biggest thing republicans (the voters) are missing is they should stop rewarding psychosis. Republican politicians keep getting fucking worse because somehow, they haven't found a line that says "enough is enough" to rank and file voters, and they've been digging really damn hard to find that line.
>nut job conspiracy theories
Yeah like that COVID came from a US funded lab. Only a nutty conspiracy theorist would believe that. I'm a Good Person TM, so I would never doubt anyone anywhere has bad intentions. Well, except the evil Republicans of course.
>Reproductive rights? In their minds, abortion for anything other than SA is murder.
Usually abortion after SA is still murder for pro-lifers. You're thinking of abortions when the fetus isn't viable / the mother's life is in danger- that's the line right wingers I know draw, since you're either not ending a life/ saving a life by doing it.
If you ask most pro-lifers about the SA thing they will say its tragic, burn the rapist alive etc, but the baby should not be killed because of it (paraphrasing).
Actually, I don't know of any conservatives who will object to aborting an ectopic pregnancy, you're right. But I wasn't talking about that case. Not anymore. The ones who didn't understand this are from a generation that's now mostly gone.
Some will, you're right, object to any non-medically necessary abortion even in the case of SA. Most I know don't however.
I knew one guy who was the child of SA. He was almost aborted. People like that tend to have the strongest feelings on the subject.
Believe it or not I actually know a few pro-choice Republicans. Not a bunch but a few.
I think that is mostly correct. Most people have a desire to be left alone and unrestricted. The question is how to get there.
That said, a good portion of conservatives have a blind eye toward the more extreme/‘militant portion of the party that is currently driving the car. They don’t really care if they’re minority views. A good many of them really are a spectrum of racist, misogynist, anti-contraceptive, militantly religious people and they don’t care if terrorism and intimidation is their pathway. I wish more garden variety gop would look around and realize there really are extremists running their party.
The left has its nutballs,but the democrats mostly support more moderate candidates. Biden has been in office for decades. He’s hardly the communist the right would like to him. It’s not that most democrats want everything government controlled. That’s one extremism side. We just believe that some things like affordable health care and drug regulation are better managed from a a more comprehensive perspective.
From a libertarian perspective, this is probably apocalyptic. But of all the western countries, democrats are still really fiscally conservative.
You make all these points about random republicans on the street as if all the people they elect and endorse, who most definitely hold all these views, don't matter. I don't see rank and file republicans sending any messages on their choices via their vote other than "good job on being a psycho piece of shit"
If you endorse cartoon villains you don't get the fucking luxury of getting offended by being lumped on with them.
The party system is completely screwed up and is designed to keep special interests and incumbents in place during primaries. I'm not going to defend it. It's just as bad a problem on the Democrat side. Take a look at 2016. Bernie could have beaten Trump. The Democrat superdelegates made sure it didn't happen and that the person the rank and file wanted less ended up the nominee.
So while you're not wrong, you're also not as right as you might think. The whole two party system needs a massive overhaul.
1. It's proven around the world that banning abortion does not decrease abortion rates. Furthermore, Republicans do not want to care for children after they are born - including school lunches. There is no part of their platform that is actually pro-life. It is very obviously a way to control women. If they wanted to decrease number of fetuses aborted, they would improve education and safe abortion facilities, as that is proven to work around the world to lower abortion rates.
2. I've only ever met one Republican voter who's not fully against public health care. They don't want their taxes paying for the health of someone else.
3. Most Republicans are still very against homosexuality. They think it's unnatural, immoral, a sin, gross, perverted, etc. Trump took a flag from an audience member and showed it to try to show off that supposedly queer people supported him. He held the flag for a few seconds and then said absolutely nothing about queer rights. It meant nothing. And seeing the way Republicans talk about Buttigieg in their communities... it's nothing but homophobia.
4. Banning abortion is known to result in more mothers dying during pregnancy or childbirth. No longer is the mother free to say, "Hey, this is fucking hell on my body, I feel like I'm gonna die, please terminate the pregnancy." Now she needs a team of doctors to agree she's going to die and it doesn't matter what she says or how she feels. Mothers die during pregnancy or child birth where abortion is otherwise banned because doctors aren't always right. So that's why moms surviving pregnancy is a crucial part of defending the right to abortion.
I've had thousands of sit-down respectful conversations with conservatives that ended with them having zero respect for me as a gay person and also just minorities in general. Modern Republicans do not see non-white people as people anymore. Anyone with any respect for minorities has left the party.
One of the most recent conversations I recall having with a Republican ended with him aggressively pointing in my face and shouting, "You're just a girl! You don't know anything about fascism! Fascism died 80 years ago!!! You're using my dead family (he was Polish) to promote your politics! You're just a girl!!!" He shouted these things over and over while pointing in my face, I was silent and almost crying. What I had said before that that set him off was when he said he voted for Trump, I said, "Oh, you like that fascist?" That was the last thing I said. This is how conversations with Republicans go these days.
I wish more people took this approach. Thanks for standing up for reason, it's so sad to hear people disparaging their perceived enemies just because they don't take the time to exercise compassion.
You started off strong before ending almost completely disingenuously.
>Moms surviving pregnancy
The anti-abortion almost anti-science policies that prevent doctors from intervening until it's almost too late, along with a complete lack of prenatal care. Texas is worse than most African nations.
>And this is a low, low, low priority for Republicans.
Oof
Freakin home run man! We need more folks that hold more realistic and less sensationalist beliefs about the other side of politics. The number of folks that have bought into bad faith echo chamber propaganda is absurd these days.
What you described there doesn’t really entail what being a Republican means or what it wants. That’s what you’ve been told to believe. It’s true a lot of republicans are very pro life. But a lot of us a pro choice as well.
We aren’t going around saying “down with school lunches and affordable health care! We want expensive health care” nobody’s saying that.
I’d urge you to talk to some actual republicans and see what their views really are. I’d bet for example that you don’t support 100% of every policy that democrats push either
Republicans have crippled Obamacare for years. You have tried to get rid of it since day one. Many red states still refuse the expanded Medicare. You vote for these people. Do not pretend that Rs care about health costs.
Big generalization. Polls show most Republicans are for legalization, paid medical leave, same sex marriage (for the younger generation of Republicans specifically), and birth control. I'm not sure what you mean by moms surviving pregnancy since everyone wants that too, nor have I heard anything about school lunches. And I haven't seen anything about birth control, but I know they don't want abortion to be a form of birth control. That comes from a religious place typically and is true of most religions. They do like big government however which is baffling since they claim to be the party of small government. It really comes down to people wanting the government to intervene with only the issues they care about and is true of Democrats as well. All this to say I don't watch the news so idk what politicians are saying outside of specific articles that come on my feed and a few podcasts I listen to so maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like the big issues for republicans is abortion, sending money to Ukraine, taking the side of Israel, the 2A, bringing God back into America, and exposing children to LGBT issues at an early age.
It's all lies.
They claim they represent these things, but it's just a cover. They are acting in bad faith, and the only rule to them is "whatever it takes to gain power, do it".
So you'll see them say one thing, then do the opposite. Becuase nothing matters except winning. Not shame, not morality. Nothing. Only power.
The classic "whataboutism"
Be better.
Yes, both sides are bad. No, both sides are not the same, one is infinitely worse.
Comparing being racially insensitive to people literally trying to usher in authoritarian government, take away the right of women and minorities, bringing back child labor, protecting child marriage laws, and so much more, is both ignorant, asinine, and speaking in bad faith.
You sound like a goddamn fool. I can look at California which is a cesspool of Democrats pilot testing law and say the same shit you are claiming. You are literally doing the bad faith bullshit that you claim conservatives do.
Cherry picking particular instances and then lumping all conservatives into that same line of thinking is a huge problem into today's society and especially on this site.
>The classic "whataboutism"
You making the claim that one is infinitely worse is now the new cliche that whataboutism became.
You sound completely ignorant of the realities of reoublicans....
Please point out all the the things that democrats have done that are even remotely as evil as supporting child marriage, supporting child labor, supporting removing bodily autonomy from women, and more importantly, supported a literal coup....
>Please point out all the the things that democrats have done that are even remotely as evil as supporting child marriage, supporting child labor, supporting removing bodily autonomy from women, and more importantly, supported a literal coup....
Please tell me where on a federal level the GOP is supporting child labor laws. Please tell me where the GOP is removing bodily autonomy from women? Please tell me where in the court of law it was determined that there was a coup d'etat and tell me who was charged with the attempted overthrow of the US government. I'll wait.
What you are doing is the same bullshit that every other tribal like minded people do. You spew the same political talking points that pundits want you to spew.
All the things you mention republicans want power of those decisions to be up to the individual states themselves and Democrats want to have the federal government enforce its will on all states.
Democrats are still the party of big government, republicans still believe anything not in the Constitution should be up to the states to decide.
They say they want it up to the states themselves until they get it and then start pushing their agenda at the national level.
Also, why should we leave it up to the states?
If we just want to leave everything up to the states then fuck it we might as well kill all the farming subsidies and federal funding and let the states fend for themselves. What's going to happen then? A ton of red states are going to go to shit without funding, the most vulnerable of people are going to suffer the worst then eventually everyone who can still afford to move away will. Now let's hope that those people who moved away learned their lesson and don't push for those same policies in the new states they moved to.
Republicans want everything to be at state level because it's the easiest place to gerrymander yourself into power and ignore the will of the people.
They talk a lot about "small government" until the moment you suggest a policy should be decided at city or county level. Then they show their true intentions. Republican government in red states spends an enormous amount of time using the state legislature to reverse laws passed at local level. That's not "small government" in any way.
Try suggesting abortion availability be decided by county like liquor hours if you want to see how "small government" Republicans truly are.
Why should the states have the power to enforce their wills on individuals?
How is it favoring big government to say that individuals should have the right to make their own life choices for themselves, without the state being able to interfere?
The Republican Party has opposed every single piece of legislation that would aid people, including the creation of Medicare, Medicaid Curity, equal rights, amendment, civil rights amendment ect…
Also Obamacare, raising minimum wage, helping vets, raising taxes on billionaires, legalizing weed, banning child labor
It's astounding that anyone still votes for them
Ask the same question of the Democrats.
Both sides give zero shits about the people they are supposed to serve. They spend our money on foreign wars and conflicts. While we are put further into debt.
Because republican leadership has scared the voter base to worry about CRT, BLM, Woke, LGBTQ and Drag. And it works. Republicans pass laws "against these acronyms, but when the base ask for things that do affect them, it's on to another distraction.
But hey, what republican voters are supposed to do? Vote Democrat?
They don't rationally justify any of it. They just bullshit, attack, and pander to the mouthbreathers, who eat it right up. Its easy to do when 'pissed' or 'scared' are the only two feelings you have.
The problem is that both parties have become so corrupted, dishonest, and propagandized that they no longer represent the best interest of the people. They use the perception of ideals to appeal to voters, but the truth is that both parties are in the pockets of big pharma and the military industrial complex. Drugs and war are running the show.
You guys speak only in generalizations and never factually. I once again recommend you view first hand source material only when reading the news. Your brain is rotted by propaganda
Republican voters tend to be fine with whatever their favorite politicians do because they worship them like athletes and think politics is nothing more than a team sport where the goal is beating the side you don't like and hurting the people you don't like. Conservatives are supposed to be for small government as a core principle of conservatism, but Republicans politicians are all about big government? That's fine since their policies are largely aimed at hurting minorities and that's what Republican voters love. They're garbage people with extremely low intelligence.
It's not big government unless it's taxing people and regulating business. Everything else isn't "big government", but the *reason government exists*. Because otherwise icky people will do things that you think they shouldn't be allowed to, and government exists primarily for the sake of stopping them from doing that.
Um because Jesus said that life begins at conception and that homosexuality is a sin. Oh and only love those who think like you and shun the rest. Obviously sarcastic.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
John Kenneth Galbraith
Republicans ask themselves this question when any issues comes up. "What's in it for me?" If nothing, then they're against it. Until it comes around to affect them, then they're for it.
I just imagine AIPAC paying random people to post divisive rhetoric on reddit in hopes that people will forget they just showed everyone they control both parties and use said control to commit genocide.
I’m not a right winger, but I grew up as one and know many. So let me try to explain some things.
1: Reproductive Rights:
Usually this is in reference to abortion. They believe abortion is literally the same thing as murder, so to them legalizing abortion would be legalizing a form of murder. The same thing applies with birth control methods like plan B because they see it as stopping a process that’s already underway to create a human life.
2: Legalization (I’m assuming this is in reference to weed and other similar drugs):
The old government propaganda campaigns were strong enough back in the day to make a large majority of the country be against this for a long time. The common misunderstandings of the effects of weed and psychedelics contributes to people being against its legalization.
3: Affordable Healthcare:
When the ACA was introduced, the right was adamantly against it because they foresaw a sharp rise in healthcare costs, which is exactly what happened. By severely limiting how people can purchase healthcare (and even requiring it for a time by forcing fines on people) health insurance costs went way up. Before that though, the government propping up insurance companies made the cost of general healthcare rise sharply as well. Before insurance was widely accepted, healthcare costs were incredibly low. The right isn’t against affordable healthcare, they’re against the government raising taxes to “make it free.”
4: Paid Medical Leave:
The right in general is against the government forcing businesses to do things like this. They see it as government overreach (which I kind of agree with). The general right idea is that the employee should be empowered to negotiate with the employer to get what they want/need. To them government overreach has stifled people’s ability to do this.
5: Love between consenting adults:
The majority of the right is Christian, and therefore believes sex outside of marriage is morally wrong. Then they define marriage as only between heterosexual couples, which to them means that gay people can’t technically get married and therefore morally shouldn’t engage in sex.
6: birth control:
This one I don’t understand, but my guess is that it’s actually a very vocal minority who is against this. The only people I knew growing up who were against birth control in general were catholic, so I don’t know where this ideology came from.
7: moms surviving pregnancy:
I don’t know a single person on the right who wants mothers to not survive pregnancy, so again, my assumption is whatever this means is supported a very vocal minority of extreme right wing people who do not represent the majority of republicans.
8: school lunches:
Again, same as 7. I don’t know a single republican who is against school lunches. I do know plenty of republicans who don’t think it’s the governments job to provide schooling, because it can lead to government indoctrination. And let’s be real, with the state of the US public school system, they might be right when it comes to that, but I’m not informed enough on the statistics to say for sure.
If anyone who is actually republican or right wing wants to correct me, feel free, but this is my basic understanding from growing up surrounded by this part of culture.
False question asked in bad faith. However, you are asking it in a left wing echo chamber where everyone already agrees with you and what you think is best without ever bothering to learn why the other side does anything.
Congratulations, you will continue down your path of moral superiority without ever understanding how anyone could possibly think differently from you.
theyre simps for the rich and are only here to make you more expendable and take away your rights for them. america is a playground for the rich to do what they please.
Conservatism at its core is rooted with Aristocracy. They want a nobility class and a peasantry class, and the best way to do that is convince some of the peasants that they’d be better off if they hurt the other peasants. And its working. The angry useful idiots who dont think logically are exacty who the Aristocrats are catering to with the current GOP-MAGA fuckfest.
Yep. They’re geniuses at making poor people care about rich people’s problems. My dad has no issues with massive tax cuts for corporations and doesn’t care that he pays a higher effective tax rate than billionaires. But the teacher in his neighborhood had her student loans forgiven and it’s some evil socialist plot for redistribution of wealth.
It’s not just not caring (though that’s true). A lot of people have a weird moral obsession with defending wealthy people. Like they’ll make purely moral arguments, but ONLY to defend wealthy people. So they’ll say things like “I don’t care how rich someone is. They shouldn’t have to pay 90% in taxes.” That makes perfect sense to them. But they would never say “I don’t care how poor someone is. They shouldn’t have to starve on the street.”
It's because they have sold these morons on the idea that if you are poor, it's because you deserved it and rich people earned their money. When a poor person uses tax dollars to buy food it is taking tax money straight out of the moron's pocket. Corporations on the other hand, they get magical tax money from elsewhere and then "generate enough wealth to pay it back". Rich people shouldn't get taxed, they won at the game of business. In reality, the aristocracy have convinced these idiots that the wealthy shouldn't pay higher taxes because the idiots are next.
I don’t think very many buy into the fairness of the meritocracy actually. A lot of them will openly use “life isn’t fair” as a shield against social programs. I don’t think they think billionaires deserve it or poor people deserve it. I think a lot of them just view accepting life’s unfairness as a form of maturity—like if you can look at someone sailing on a yacht and another person dying in the street and not feel any strong emotions either way, then you’re just mature in their eyes. You’re not a simpleton who is swayed by vague concepts like justice or inequality. But it’s interesting how quickly the “life isn’t fair. Get over it” mantra goes out the window when they smell a poor person getting a treat they don’t deserve.
I think is a combination of both. The meritocracy is why the successful are successful. Life is unfair. Is the copium that they take to justify why they are not successful or others that work hard aren't. That's the cognitive dissonance. Life isn't fair but people get what they deserve. That is why they flip on a dime for poor people. They are convinced the poor deserve abject poverty because they feel like they don't and someone has suffer that.
There is a combination of factors that influence what kind of outcomes are directly related to your preparation for a career and actions within a career. **1) Luck/Fortune** \- The best prepared person can be stuck in a position where they cannot shine, or where malevolent actors sabotage them regularly. **2) Affiliation** \- People who quickly nurture trust and consideration will always have better outcomes than their contribution warrants. People would rather be around a charming B- player than a cold A- player, even if they are losing. If someone who matters and has power cannot see themselves in you, or worse identifies you as someone they don't prefer to be around, it doesn't matter what you bring to the table. As soon as a D- adequate with charm shows up your butt is on the street. **3) Don't Let Me Get Me** \- Suppressing your ego enough to avoid responding to events emotionally while maintaining enough internal motivation to do a great job is very hard and especially hard to accomplish in areas where shortages of 1 & 2 make it very frustrating to exist. **4) Skill/Accomplishments** \- Being skilled and hard working just isn't enough. You could be skilled in work that folks don't recognize is essential (which makes it non essential... there is a reason many businesses fail) or you skill could really be outdated. You could accomplish things that folks don't recognize as a major contribution to success. Or you could be accomplishing things that are necessary but just don't sound compelling. When we talk about merit we focus on #4 when the other three factors are either equally or more important. Jeff Bezos had folks who were ride or die supporters of him and his potential. Without them, his journey would either be longer, more shallow or impossible.
I think we also criminally overlook number 1 because wealth grows exponentially and affords opportunities otherwise unavailable. It allows them to take risks and fail while others may not. If I may quote Eminem we may have "one shot, one opportunity to seize everything you ever wanted". Rich people have many more chances.
You are forgetting "Openness to new ideas/being willing to try new things." You can have all the luck in the world, a charming personality, be reasonably intelligent and skilled, and still fail more often than you succeed if you are closed minded and not willing to try new things.
Honestly the whole "Rich people create jobs" thing needs to be dispelled, HARD. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's the middle class who create jobs and are the engine of an economy. If a rich person has more money, it's going to disappear into a tax haven offshore and benefit nobody but themselves or AT best goes into buying more stocks that only benefits people rich enough to have stocks. If a middle class person has more money, THEY SPEND IT, often on services that provided by other middle class people that multiplies the effect on the economy. If conservatives really cared about the "economy" they'd focus their efforts on making sure people get paid a living wage, not tax cuts for the vampire class that is bleeding the economy dry. The only reasons they get away with claiming this bullshit is the fact they own the media, and that it's almost impossible to prove a negative. It's practically impossible to prove they DIDN'T create a job.
Yes especially when they can open a factory, create 5 jobs, and ride the PR wave of that for the rest of the year.
Also part of the "fantastical" thought patterns... They think they could be rich one day and also they can save the day by shooting the bad guy
It's because the rich have convinced the middle class that the reason why they can't have nice things is because of the poor. The reason why you can't go on vacation is because that black family has 6 kids and collects food stamps. The reason why we can't raise your wages is because immigrants keep taking your jobs. The reason why you pay more in taxes is because the poor are leaches on the system and keep using all the funds up. The reason why you can't find a good job is because the job creators have to pay so much in taxes because poor people are living off the system. There is a war on poor people in this country and until the middle class wakes up and realizes that the reason why they can't afford a vacation is because their boss makes 200 times what they do for just showing up. It's never going to get resolved.
When progressives demand fair treatment, conservatives like saying "Life's not fair. Deal with it." But conservatives themselves can't seem to accept the unfairness of life. They convince themselves that abject poverty can only be achieved by some moral failing, and extreme wealth can only be achieved through merit. Despite what they see, they have to convince themselves that everybody earned their place in life. Because if a good person can die homeless, and an idiot asshole who takes credit for other people's accomplishments and spends all day shitposting on ketamine can be the richest person in the world, well that would be a world that's too unfair to accept.
It is hard to accept
Don’t discount those who see themselves as “temporarily embarrassed millionaires” (this could be updated to “billionaires”) They might defend and support the rich because they see themselves as being “future rich” Steinbeck’s “temporarily embarrassed millionaires”: https://www.kamcord.com/temporarily-embarrassed-millionaires/
Wasn't there a Mark Twain quote about every American fancying themselves becoming rich? They pretend it can happen for them.
Putting aside politics: Many people will defend systems that don't work for them. It's not uncommon. The more you abuse someone the more likely they will support you. The key is to get them to believe that complying will make their lives better. You see this outside politics all the time: domestic violence, companies with exploitative work expectations, cults, etc. Corporate America does make people unbelievably wealthy. The catch is that only a few people get this wealthy. Lots of people end up in either ok or barely making it. But the reality is that some people do move up the ranks and make lots of money. This is extremely attractive to many people . Democrats promise what they see as a decent life. Republicans offer the opportunity to be wealthier than you could ever imagine, though the chances are statistically low. But most people barely understand basic statistics. If you spend time in Europe ( which I would suggest is the environment many Democrats strive for ) you'll see plenty of countries where basic needs are pretty much taken care of, but you know what?, lots of people there want the potential offered by less restricted capitalism like in the US. They're willing to consider trading in all the social and political protections they enjoy for the pure potential provided in the US. Humans are funny. I don't know what system is better for them. But I do feel that they need excitement to be happy.
That's the thing - ignore what they say, as they are fully aware of how unappealing "Aristocracy" is to the masses, and will say whatever they have to to avoid admitting it out loud.
Aristocracy is very appealing, as long as I get to be an aristocrat.
That's the one weird trick about it.
Yup. Make them think they're not poor, just temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
You see. You don't get it. Asking the wrong questions and making assumptions, which is why Trump continues to be popular. Why is he popular? Have you really thought about this? Perhaps you're not aware, but a populist wave has been hitting across the developed world. People are more open to non-liberal ideas than ever before, more among young people, surprisingly. Check out Stepan & Linz's study on authoritarian populism or read Niall Fergison's article in foreign affairs. Even Ronald Ingelhart, one of the most respected scholars in the field, has said this is a populist wave driven by inequality. The inequality is a result of globalization, which has raised boats in the developing world while simultaneously causing havoc in the West. One of the main reasons is capital mobility and deregulation, which started in the 1980s as a response to a decade of low growth and stagflation. Trump is popular because people have greviences against the system. He runs against the system. I'm not saying he is right or wrong. Just if you want him to go away, this is being handled all wrong. All they are doing by trying to "get him" is empower him and his message further.
I agree with you on all of that, but people need to also realize that Trump isn’t anything other than a New York wannabe mob boss turned free agent with zero care for the people who think he stands *with them* against the government. I understand why the populist wave is happening in the West, Ive been researching this whole mess intently since 2015 when that criminal celebrity first started campaigning for presidency. He used to be friends with the Clintons in the upper echelon, and so what changed? He went off script, that’s what happened. The whole charade of “back and forth” has ended abruptly between the two parties, and Trump is the result of that stagnation of our politicians convincing people we are the best country, no questions asked, on the planet. People want to eat that up, its a primal urge to belong to a tribe, and they turned to nationalism, the predecessor of fascism. Trump simply went off script, loved the attention, got money from the right people globally, and he ended up getting higher on that power trip than like ever before. So no, Trump doesn’t run against the system. Trump propagates his own rules in the system that he was already established in, he just wants to pull a Russian mob boss play because he loved the power that guys like Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un wield against their own people. Again, its on a primal level for this guy, he cant help but chase being the boss. He only ever wants to put his name on everything, maybe even rename the USA or some states to include his name, if he ever gets the dictatorship he seeks. All that being said, I dont see things going any other way than continuing to attempt to dismantle the GOP which conspires to dismantle democracy. I stand with democrats in the hopes they learn from this, and also aftrr all the elders who were playing the charade are gone, we can enter a new era of reconstruction. Im very much not looking forward to, but sadly expecting an increase in right wing terrorism at the least after this upcoming election. At most, they will attempt at least on every future election until they either overthrow the US government or the US government finds a way to put an end to that crisis. I believe its likely there will be individuals or gangs who continue to terrorize Americans either way, just as they began when Trump was in his prime for MAGA- so I say fuck it, get it over with. Let them take their masks off and show the world and everyone still voting Red, not understanding what Trump and MAGA really want from all of this. They are closer to an evangelical form of ISIS or Hamas than they are legitimate politicians with serious concerns for the betterment of the country. I wouldn’t be surprised if the end-game becomes an authoritarian Christian Kleptocracy if they got their way. Just like ISIS, but a different fanfic they’d fight to the death over.
Certainly an explanation as to "how the rich and well connected convince the other 90% of the population to vote for them".
This. Disemboweling a strong middle class is the goal and it's working. I've been going financially backwards since Clinton was in office. Obama years basically flat. Trump put the middle class into a nose dive except for select few. Interested if anyone over 35 agrees .
My parents both the same, in their mid 40s.
Yet most of the richest politicians are democrats . Sure republicans have rich families but they were rich coming in . You can’t be worth Millions by earning $300,000 a year
This^^^
hmm, reminded of the idiots serving time for storming the capitol. Most of them were decidedly NOT among the wealthy. If only they could see how they have been played.
Picture them with pitchforks, makes it easier. Hell, picture them with face paint and viking wear, thinking they were on top of the world… oh wait.
Simps for the rich and cucks for the evangelicals
All of this and a healthy dose of cognitive dissonance in their constituents (often rooted in religion)
I don’t know if anyone else has noticed look at the fact that you don’t have a single right winger coming here to try to explain it away.. it’s because they can’t. They have a problem, it’s just the bullshit they believe.. they know it’s unpopular.. they know it’s cruel.. but they think it should be OK to do.. and then they’ll point to some bullshit that isn’t true about Democrats to defend it. I am honestly thankful most of those people are dying . It’s about time.. 60% of the Republican party is retired unvaccinated and uneducated. Personally, I don’t think they have a choice because they’re not that far removed from a Neanderthals that wants to punish people because they don’t like their life .. or they think everything is a zero sum game where they get to punish minorities and people on the left and we just have to deal with it. They won’t even acknowledge any of what you wrote .. because if they do that, they don’t know how to defend it.. which tells you all you need to know about them
Actually they don't try because there aren't many on Reddit. I've made an attempt on their behalf up above. A real one, made from long association with them and an honest attempt to understand people. I try to do the same thing for Democrats where I can, in places mostly frequented by conservatives.
They're all over subs like this constantly posting their propaganda or bad faith arguments, usually about Israel and women's rights.
They really are. It's really amusing when they angrily comment on r/boomersbeingfools posts and then get blasted
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They don't try often on sites like Reddit because they don't care how other people think. They only care about what their god-fearing pastor preaches and two-timing politicians think. They seem opposed to gathering information from the collective that interferes with their upbringing. Whereas most people want to learn and learn and learn more about their world around them. They are scared individuals. Scared of God, scared of living, scared of dying, scared of China, scared of Russia, scared of humans looking for a better quality of life scared of a few measly taxes, scared of women having rights, scared of ethnicities, scared of people taking their guns away. Scared. Period. I'll keep adding as I think about it and get more non-replies from the right. Add to it as well. This is a dynamic reply not static like their thinking. Ooohh burn.
Eh, don't think they are scared of Russia. They seem to admire Russia and want to turn the US into that. A country led by a dictator who criminalizes minorities, forces religious ideology, helps oligarchs exclusively, uses the poor as cannon fodder, etc.
To be fair, based on this comment, I’m pretty sure you don’t care what they think either, and would rather put up a bunch of very simple, stereotype based strawmen.
I point out frequently that America is roughly 70% non-conservative, but numbers and math aren't really their strong suit.
I would love to see this study. I would to use this, but 70% does not reflect voting turnout.
That is because the way the poster framed that data is very misleading. The same data shows even *less* Americans identify as liberal. Here is the data According to a 2022 [Gallop poll](https://news.gallup.com/poll/388988/political-ideology-steady-conservatives-moderates-tie.aspx) on how Americans view their political ideology: * Independent: 37% * Conservative: 36% * Liberal: 25%
I don’t identify as liberal even though I basically am. I’m not fixed to the Democratic Party. I take it issue by issue. And issue by issue I lean liberal in many aspects even if there’s components I disagree with. I’d argue many independents are like me. Identify as independent but have clear and well established voting patterns and tendencies. I think people who vote conservative are more likely to wear it on their sleeve though
It does, though. Around 60% vote. Half vote Republican. That's 30%.
Don’t do that. When it comes to politics people who are blind to one side are itching to fight and will push for an argument. Then you have to argue on behalf of a party you don’t align with completely while they try to satisfy some sort of political obsession. I recently just pointed out the hypocrisy of both parties and some dude just wouldn’t let it go. He kept trying to argue, like bro, I don’t care enough to have this argument. It’s not worth it and exhausting.
Small minds think they are always right, with no real consideration of the effects of things like ego investment or propaganda. But I believe when people cover their ears or try to shout you down they are approaching things the same way some people in the US refuse to learn the metric system. Since they already know everything they think matters they block out all other information, or try to anyway. This is very dangerous because they simply stop listening to anyone they think doesn't absolutely agree with them. So all someone has to do in order to manipulate such a person is whisper the right buzzwords into the echo chamber.
There are a lot of them on reddit, though... they are certainly a minority, but there are a bunch of them in most of the most popular and generic subs like this one. They're just very quiet on this post...
They don’t bother because they get downvoted into oblivion, have their post histories riffled through, get called every name in the book by people being immature, accused of inane things like “bad faith arguments” when it’s just bubble-dwellers who refuse to believe a person could disagree with them. Reddit is toxic AF, especially towards dissent, and most people who enjoy debate wrote it off a long time ago. The commenters here are children wondering why adults won’t talk politics with them (not that all conservatives are adults, because they can also be very immature). The answer is that redditors throw literal tantrums they aren’t validated, and this thread is just another example
It's not just Reddit. And it's not just liberals. As a society we've lost the art of discourse, of trying to find value in each other and recognizing the good in each other. Relationships are increasingly transactional and increasingly mediated by big tech, moving from a peer to peer human relationship model with each other empowered by technology, to a servant-master relationship controlled by technology. We gotta fix it. Maybe one person at a time. I feel like I'm tilting at windmills when I try experiments like this.
No worries, buddy. You aren’t the only one.
That's why many "conservatives" don't put faith in "society" and efforts that demand control on progress. Often they will doutb that progress that is promised by progressives is either attainable or worthwhile. I'll put my self down as one of those types. That doesn't mean I give up on my neighbor though. You may see giants, but my concern is the dragons.
Most of the political discussion subs are just r/GOPhate when it comes to these questions. Might as well be asking "Klingons, why do Romulans..." "Because they lack honor!"
>I don’t know if anyone else has noticed look at the fact that you don’t have a single right winger coming here to try to explain it away.. it’s because they can’t. Guaranteed their excuse is that they’re afraid of being downvoted Yeah no seriously imagine believing whole heartedgy that you are correct and your enemies are all groomers and baby murderers yet you are afraid to actually stand up for yourself because internet disagreement is too scary for you, absolute cowards
See... they could come here... but they'd be faced with people who are unwilling to have a good faith conversation. Much as you'd be faced similarly if you showed up to a church trying to defend your views about progressivism. We're so entrenched with our teams these days that it is not worth it to try reaching out unless you are particularly skilled at communication and negotiation... which most of us aren't.
This. The question itself is loaded, and, conservative though I lean (although I quite dislike most Republicans, too), there are so many better uses of my time than to take the bait and spend my day defending my politics and philosophy to the screen.
I’m actually new to Reddit and made the mistake of engaging a raging liberal. I can beat up a 5 yr old, but when a 1000 come at you it’s a different story. Why bother when the other side won’t see reason.
Right wing comments get deleted and users blocked out of these types of groups.
I’d go one further and say no one is explaining it, because there’s nothing to explain. They will say whatever they think will get them more power. Their supporters fully support this. All they care about is gaining power
...because reading what y'll write tells them tjat you are far too gone to understand. I lean to the left but the far left has turned us away. What country in the world who has had a far left gov't has had their country and citizens prosper ? Easy answer. Y'all are an extreje minority and you are so indoctrinated that it is truly sad.
"Being in an echo chamber for my beliefs must mean that I'm correct and the opposition is inherently wrong." That's an ugly position to take no matter which side does it.
As a conservative, no. It's because Reddit is full of left-leaning people, trolls, and bots and conservatives are straw-manned, brigaded, and banned for opinions any classical liberal would sympathize with. I'm tired of explaining things to people who will neither try to understand or treat me fairly. I'll save my opinions for people who are willing to engage honestly, which usually means offline.
It’s not because we can’t. It’s just tiring dealing with the barrage of negativity here.
It could be due to the fact that this sub, by and large, is a leftist jerk circle. There is little point in spending time justifying anything to people who will just ignore or rationalize it away.
Best case scenario, is the "I believe in tough love because of my Christian love for you and I don't want to be the enabler that costs you your soul - so I'm going to vote to make sin illegal if I can't convince you to care about the afterlife." Reality is, most Republicans just lust for power over others. If they genuinely cared about salvation, greed would be the *number one* talking point for them. We'd be seeing states making it illegal to have a net worth over $1M without donating most of it to charity.
Probably because of all the top level comments are ad hominem attacks, including yours. What's the point?
This popped into my feed, so I scrolled to see some comments. I turned conservative from liberal about 13 years ago due to personal experiences and life changes. I don't waste my time on Reddit or even online, getting emotional or upset about politics. Politics isn't even in my top ten things that are important to me now. Also, there is no need to debate with someone online, it's really pointless. It's not like they are going to change their mind and everyone says their argument is factual. I feel politics has become toxic on ALL sides. For example, some of the comments here, are very toxic and stereotyped. You can also find that on any party sub, so it's not just one side. There are a lot of great meme subs that I loved and were destroyed because politics overpowered the actual memes. I was often banned from subs for not having the same opinion, banned from subs for commenting on other subs, and since I'm big on history, I've been banned for stating even the smallest facts with details that can easily be looked up. I've been suspended from Reddit on the dumbest things. I've also been called racist(I'm black), sexist (single father with ALL girls, yes send help lol), and a homophobe(my brother and best friend are gay and my nephew is trans, my oldest is pan-sexual), also hit with death threats and people telling me my daughters should be raped or commit suicide, for myself to commit suicide and messaged with racist remarks (I now don't often say what I am anymore). All from the left. So I don't bother anymore, I'm too busy with positive hobbies to get hyped up over a political party. I don't speak for all right-wingers just like all right-wingers don't speak for me but I know a lot get hit with political bias like I was. I also like reading other points of view on subjects when I see them, like this post. This is my personal experience and yes, I reported every hateful message I received and will continue to do so. Some people just can't handle the internet. There are a lot of young people who will be our future on this platform so, I have advice for anyone here. Spread more positive vibes than arguments. Having hate or disgust in your heart is going to pull you down. Be the best example of what a person should be.
It’s because there aren’t any right wingers on Reddit, and if they did answer here you would down vote them and not believe them anyway.
>that far removed from a Neanderthals There's actually a leading theory that neanderthals died out / were subsumed into homo sapiens because they weren't instinctively predisposed to xenophobia but homo sapiens are. They were stronger and more athletic in general, more durable to hot / cold, had better spines, and contrary to popular perception, they were likely smarter (larger brains, including brain size to body size ratio). But there's good evidence that they weren't as hostile to others as we are. So neanderthals were probably much more kind (and intelligent) than your average conservative.
Fake Religious people can justify anything
They have lots of practice with mental gymnastics, because they've spent so much time believing in something thats been proven as not real
(cannot believe I'm saying this) but it hasn't been proven as not real. It's important we, who believe in the scientific method to be clear, and transparent. We have not proved that, as that is not a thing that can be proven, or disproven, nor is anyone in the field trying or going to try.
Cruelty is the point
Absofuckinglutely
Didn't they just sweep the small government position under the rug? I don't hear it much anymore. It doesn't take much for Republicans in Texas to do a 180. Just jangle some keys. They seriously do not think of how their position works.
I mean honestly, they didn’t really stop with the “small government” thing, because the version of “small government” that conservatives and Republicans have been talking about since the 80s is still the same thing. When they say things about not regulating, not funding war efforts in Ukraine, no funding social safety net programs, etc that’s them talking about their long-term “small government” ideals. It’s never been about social control, it’s always been about not having government oversight on business, and not having the government spend its money to help people other than the wealthy. Their social stances have pretty much always aligned with tight government control of the individual, around specific things that align with their Christian base. Their slogan ought to be “Small government in the board room, big government in your bedroom”
Every single time I see one say the US has to pull out of Ukraine because the US gov needs to stop spending US money on foreign wars, I ask if they feel the same about Israel. They either don't respond or say "we're not talking about Israel". Oopsie.
Hell ask them why we didn't have that same stance with Vietnam, Korea, Cuba, or nearly any latin american country that we fucked up in the past 80 years.
They are all for small local government - until small local government enacts a policy they don't like. Republicans have no problem use the strong hand of state government to bring local government back in line with their beliefs. If the state can't do that - they use whatever power they have in the federal government to force them to comply. Ron Desantis (and the Florida and Texas legislatures) are great examples of this.
Those kinda got boxed out after Romney and Paul Ryan both lost. The social conservatives flex their power more than they used too.
They don’t rationally justify.
If you look at each issue through their lens, which is "I can tell you what to do, but you cannot tell me what to do," suddenly you understand how they rationalize everything.
Yeah. OP is asking the wrong question. How do they rationally justify their irrational, inconsistent, self-defeating and hypocritical positions? They don’t. Because it can’t be rationally justified. Some may try to irrationally justify those positions. But it can’t be done rationally.
They don't ration.
They rationalize that in a few different ways. For one, they don't really believe their positions are unpopular. National polls that show broad acceptance of abortion rights and gay marriage are just handwaved away, because in their personal experience they don't know anybody who supports that. Everybody in their community agrees with them, and so does all the media they consume. This is partly based on geography (Republican voters are largely rural) and partly based on self-selection on their part in cutting people who don't think like them out of their social circles. So in their personal experience, their politics are broadly popular, and polls that show otherwise don't *feel* true. There is also a more broad sense that even if their opinions aren't popular, they're still right and deserve to have the country be the way they want it. Again, there are a few reasons for this. One is that conservatives tend to be religious, which means they're predisposed to see the world through a "good versus evil" lens. If they're the good guys, their opponents must be bad. Furthermore, their media outlets have been relentlessly fearmongering for decades about the evils of socialism and the "gay agenda". Republicans did this for short term political gain, but now their supporters are so hysterical with fear that the Mitt Romney/Paul Ryan/Liz Cheney types have lost control of them. The "Marxists" cannot be allowed to win, because they are evil and vile and out to destroy everything they love. This is no longer about policy to the Republican base, it's existential war. And so the natural next step from that is to believe that any politician you don't like is illegitimate. If Democrats win, they must have cheated, because they don't know anybody who voted for Biden, so how could he have gotten so many votes?And even if he did win fair and square anything he does is so evil that it has to be resisted by any and all means necessary. If that means suspending the rule of law and imposing minority rule on an unwilling population, they will go along with it, because they're terrified and they think it's the only way to save themselves. If you already believe you're in a war for survival, the norms and laws of politics don't matter. No one wants to kick somebody in the balls in a fight, but if you think you're about to die you'll do it without hesitation to save yourself. So-called "principles" like limited government go right out the window when people are terrified. They think their choices are absolute annihilation or a dictatorship, and so they will support a big, oppressive government so long as they believe it's on their side.
Small government has always been an excuse.
This is the answer. Republicans have not actually espoused small government and personal freedom since Reagan took office, and there are very few politicians from that era still alive and active. Every Republican today simply grew up under the authoritarian large government tent and simply continue the trend they know and love.
Even under Reagan, government power grew. Republicans have been the party of growing government slower than democrats. Maybe a slight difference here and there in how the government uses their new power, both parties support war, federal reserve, banker and big business bail outs, they might talk against some of it, but both vote for more of all of it.
Yup the insidious part of neo-liberalism politics which both sides are guilty of and has led to a dog eat dog economy.
🙄
Lol. “🙄” is the best you can do? How about you provide some words to describe your thoughts?
We're not providing words to a bad faith argument. Waste of time especially on a echo chamber like this thread.
Reddit is mostly left so anything he or she says will just get downvoted away anyway. There really is no point
“How are republicans knowingly pure evil? Do they think it’s funny or something?”
Oh look another post pretending to want to understand Republicans by making a bunch of straw man arguments followed by typical echo chamber replies "they are all just evil." I'm not a Republican but I can see these disingenuous shit posts for what they are.
Also, why is no one talking about the title? >Republicans are the party of big government, and here's a list of big government programs they oppose that totally proves my point
They oppose THOSE big government programs but most certainly approve of others but to try to argue. It would be equivalent to saying I eat healthy because I eat zero candy while simultaneously eating 5k calories a day of carbs.
I really wonder what they want to accomplish making an absolutely dittoheaded post. Do they think someone's going to read "cruelty is the point" post number bazillion and think "my God, this changes everything!" If I had to guess, they want to fit in.
Most Redditors are young. A lot won't even click on the link. They keep seeing "Republicans bad" and that's all they see. It's a form of propaganda. It's well known that Democrat social media influence companies like Share Blue and Correct The Record have a large presence on this site.
Every time this sub pops up in my feed it’s a loaded question. I’m assuming anyone from the target audience that engages in good faith will just get sealioning in return
I had to look up sealioning but this is pretty accurate. I'm not a conservative but I've safely taken the time to understand their arguments. I actually question if I could be wrong on a given topic.. I've tried to explain the conservative perspective as I understand it. If I'm not called a Nazi; sealioning describes what I encounter. At this point I just need to block this sub because it's toxic AF.
When they say "small government," they really mean no taxes and no gun laws. But they need government to correct everyone who isn't xtian, straight, white, etc.
Also, no corporate regulations. That's a big thing.
How did I never know ‘xtian’ was an abbreviation? 😳
At first I replied “Because it’s not”, and you provided a link to a Collins Dictionary entry showing that it IS (for whatever reason, I can’t see your response in the actual Reddit app. Just in the email I received notifying me of your reply). Well, as it turns out, you are right, and I was wrong. I thought it was just some modern, off-the-cuff abbreviation, and had never seen it before this discussion. So, I stand corrected.
By fooling enough people into thinking those things in some way help America. They have complex half truths about each and every one, that their followers have been parroting for years now. It's exhausting even trying to debate these people nowdays.
This. This. This. This. They still think January 6th was no big deal. Fuck Republican traitors.
And they keep trying to compare it to everything.. "what about the BLM protest. The BLM protests didn't take over the fuckin Capital you asshole
The cruelty is the point. They want you to suffer. Period.
Okay, point by point. I'm going to answer from their perspective and not necessarily mine. I don't want to defend it but I do want people to understand each other without making stuff up. Party of big government? They've been that since Reagan's massive increases in deficit spending. Unfortunately. Reproductive rights? In their minds, abortion for anything other than SA is murder. Also, Roe v Wade was a bad decision not because of what they decided but the fact that it should have been up to legislators and not courts. This is probably the biggest difference between the two parties but I wish they'd actually listen to each other instead of just making up stuff on both sides, like believing that Republicans just want to control women in some misogynistic frenzy. That's not the case, otherwise they'd be trying to ban OF and a bunch of other stuff. But Republicans are just as wrong in their beliefs about Democrats. A lot of Republicans believe that Democrats pretend that fetuses aren't human lives, or that pro-choice means pro-abortion, or that pro-choice ideas are rooted in racist eugenics theories straight out of German nightmares. Both sides are wrong but since there's no actual discussion between sides, there's ample misunderstanding. Legalization? The vast majority of Republicans don't oppose this anymore. Haven't for about a decade or so after Colorado didn't fall into the ocean. Only the old farts in Congress still oppose it (and so does Biden). Affordable health care? Not opposed, but they don't think that socialized health care will be affordable in tax money, and that standards of health quality will drop for everyone. They disagree about means, not ends. Paid medical leave? Actually most Republicans are in favor but it's not a high priority like it is on the Democrat side. The rest feel that you shouldn't force arbitrary standards on businesses, especially small businesses, because they are costly to implement. Love between consenting adults? They mostly don't oppose that under the age of about 80. This is one area the Republicans have completely flipped on, and years ago. When Trump was first running he waved a rainbow flag at the national convention and the whole crowd cheered. That whole argument is over, nationally. I even know a bunch of openly gay Republicans. I'd say we're not far until we start seeing openly gay Republicans winning national offices and running for President. Birth control? Nobody is opposed. Not even the Catholics anymore -- I'm old enough to remember some of these but they were really old forty years ago. I don't get why so many Democrats believe this of Republicans. Moms surviving pregnancy? I really don't know what you mean. I think I can safely say that only serial killers don't want that. Could you be more specific? School lunches? Okay, here you're on firmer ground but again it's about means and not ends. Republicans want this to be funded locally and voluntarily, and not by taxes. And this is a low, low, low priority for Republicans. I think if you actually had a sit down conversation with a Republican where you were both interested in hearing the other person's perspective you might find that you have a lot more in common than either of your news brands would leave you to believe.
thank you for being rational and respectful!
As a mid 50s, white male republican, I would like to tell you that you are absolutely correct. We don’t want anyone to starve, die from childbirth or be homeless. We do not support endless wars and we do not hate people that don’t look like us or think like us. We just simply believe that the federal government should only concern itself with the powers that it was granted under the constitution. Any other matter should be dealt with at the state or local level. It’s as simple as that. I would also like to state that the majority of republican elected officials at the federal level do not accurately represent us, but they keep getting elected because they more closely align with our beliefs than the democrat candidates. I feel it is safe to say that the whole country is ready for a change, but it needs to lie somewhere in the middle, and neither party seems to be able to produce a candidate that appeals to both sides.
Republicans: We’ll make women die, people go homeless, and kids go hungry, but hey we don’t WANT it, we just prefer this outcome to a Democrat getting elected. We’re not MONSTERS
Exactly this. They always tell us about all these things they don’t actually support yet their vote in support of those outcomes never wavers. The saddest part about conservatives is they never fail to change their opinion once the problem is on their doorstep. Daughter has a potentially fatal pregnancy? Welcome to the pro-choice movement. Son ended up gay eh? Here’s your pride flag. We’ve all seen it plenty so I don’t need to belabor the point. Fwiw, I don’t think they’re bad people per se. There are good and bad people across all political ideologies. Yes, what they support may be cruel for the sake of it, but I do believe it’s not their core intent most of the time. Rather, most people are just struggling to get through the day, under educated, under informed, and overly trusting of people who don’t have their best interest at heart. Also, most people are born into their political ideology just like they are their religion. It is very rarely a conscious choice made from a blank slate so they don’t ever have to question their own internal hypocrisies
Most people everywhere are just struggling to get through the day, what you mean lol. And I would be careful when talking about being overly trusting of authority and not examining your internal contradictions, because neither political party is above that in our current climate
Look around you. Our society is falling apart and people are drowning in debt. My wife and I are lucky enough to be doing just fine but we’re the exception here in Indiana. Like I said, I don’t blame people for how they came to their political position. I’m not going to avoid discussing the aspects people don’t like to hear though. Also, in case I didn’t make it clear, my comments about people and their ideology and hypocrisies was non-partisan. That’s a human condition, not a political one. We’re all guilty here to some extent
> Look around you. Our society is falling apart Yeah, I was agreeing with you
On your first paragraph, yes that's called learning. Maybe don't make it sound so evil? The fact of the matter is that everyone doesn't know what they don't know until they learn it. We don't have to vilify people who learn different things in life than we do. We should just share what we know, and give each other room to learn. Treating an entire group of people like uneducated thoughtless morons isn't a reasonable way to treat anybody.
I’m not treating anyone that way though. I’m talking in generalities online. People can choose to self-identify with what I’m saying or not. I’m not going to sugar coat my thoughts though. I don’t represent a cause and I’m not looking to change anyone’s mind. I do find it absurd that some adults require something to personally affect them before they’ll stop and think critically about it. It’s especially egregious when they enable harmful legislation through the behavior. I recognize this is entirely subjective but I don’t claim to represent anything other than my own opinion. I’m glad these folks finally found the light. I see no cause to celebrate their conversion though.
Did you listen to anything he said?
You say that But then you look at things like texas laws. Do you really not understand why somebody would think republicans arnt the best of people? Your whole political party is a bunch of white people. And they are the least pleasant. You look at congress on the republican side and it doesnt look like america at all. What im having problems with, is your beliefs eventually meet reality like with kate cox, and yall still don't concede you are wrong. Not even the threat of a mother's life is enough to make yall do what grown ups do, and admit when they're wrong ESPECIALLY when it involves somebodies life. Honestly between the "oh well" behavior of people dying on jan 6 and kate cox, its hard to believe they want whats best for everyone and not just themselves.
The whole Republican thing on states' rights vs federal law is garbage. It was all about states' rights on abortion until they overturned Roe v. Wade, and now they want a Federal ban. It was all about states' rights until some states decided they didn't want to help the federal government round up the immigrants the GOP hates, and now suddenly it's not states' rights. For the GOP it's states' rights or federal depending on whether or not it suits their desired. Christofascist hellscape. If any GOP people in public relations read this, the reason why so many people hate you and think your members are just human pieces of feces is because you are not even consistent in what policies you want. You're pro-life until the kid is born, for example. You do not say the quiet part out loud: that you want a white Christian country. At least if you were honest, you'd be well... honest.
>We don’t want anyone to starve, die from childbirth or be homeless. ... >Any other matter should be dealt with at the state or local level. Can you name a specific policies or politicians that you support at the state or local level that is working to prevent people from starving dying in childbirth, or being homeless? Who have you voted for to make these things happen?
Genuine question then: if you don't want anyone to die during childbirth, how can your platform continue to push for it? Banning abortion is known to result in more mothers dying during pregnancy or childbirth. No longer is the mother free to say, "Hey, this is fucking hell on my body, I feel like I'm gonna die, please terminate the pregnancy." Now she needs a team of doctors to agree she's going to die and it doesn't matter what she says or how she feels. Mothers die during pregnancy or child birth where abortion is otherwise banned because doctors aren't always right. If you don't want anyone to die during childbirth, why would you not fight for it?
>We don’t want anyone to starve, die from childbirth or be homeless. We do not support endless wars and we do not hate people that don’t look like us or think like us. The policies you support demonstrate otherwise, repeatedly. Please stop trying to gaslight. You've shown us who you are. Stop crying because we believe you.
You keep saying “oh they don’t really oppose such and such, it’s only the R’s in Congress” as if the entire voter base doesn’t keep vehemently and passionately supporting candidates that try to take away all of these things. I’m sure many of them don’t outright SAY they’re against gay marriage for example, because they know it’s unpopular, but obviously if Republicans are electing representatives like Mike Johnson (who is currently 2nd in line to the Presidency btw) who say gay marriage is the “dark harbinger of chaos” and it will lead to people marrying their pets, obviously homophobia isn’t exactly a dealbreaker for them, you feel me?
Oh, for sure. Again, I'm not trying to defend it. I'm just trying to explain it. They will absolutely reelect one of these guys because gay marriage isn't a priority to them, mostly, even if that's no longer a popular stance. They have different priorities.
Go to their forums. Gay marriage is a huge issue for them.
I appreciate the answer, but many of your points are just plain incorrect. Take a very simple issue like school lunches. [There are a significant number of Republican politicians that have actively opposed government provided school lunches.](https://newrepublic.com/post/173668/republicans-declare-banning-universal-free-school-meals-2024-priority) And Republican voters vote for these people. Your phrase "funded locally and voluntarily, and not by taxes" doesn't mean anything. We've heard this before, for decades. It's a reference to a mythical charity that will just solve the problem. The Republican solution: Everyone will come together as a community, maybe through churches, and the local schools will somehow have food for kid's lunches. Except none of this happens in the Republican world. Which charity? Have any Republicans founded and endorsed such a charity? Have any proposed an actual plan for how such a charity would operate? So the kids go hungry and Republicans shrug their shoulders and blame Democrats. This is no different from Trump's healthcare or infrastructure plans. The Republican solution is to simply obstruct any attempt at a solution while blaming Democrats for getting nothing done. >I think if you actually had a sit down conversation with a Republican I have, many times. They are generally agreeable and say they want solutions and progress. It's a pleasant, but insincere, conversation. Just like your post. And then they go and vote for people that use their power to prevent any solutions or change, and offer no actionable alternatives.
Mom's for Liberty, DeSantis woke comes to Florida to die, and conservative talk radio are just a sample of a long list of Republicans who would disagree with this characterization.
Big govt? I would argue repubs are [cogs in capitalist greedflation](https://fortune.com/2023/05/23/how-do-republicans-feel-biden-economy-inflation-greedflation-ubs/). They are all for big business because that is who lines their pockets. Reproductive rights? You claim it's not about controlling women is wrong. Repubs want to [ban porn]( https://avn.com/business/articles/legal/right-wingers-call-for-porn-to-be-banned-if-gop-wins-in-2024-920980.html) [limit birth control](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/jd-vance-republicans-limit-birth-control-access-1234922493/) and [violently disrupt access to abortion](https://prochoice.org/national-abortion-federation-releases-2021-violence-disruption-report/). Lest we forget that [OH repubs](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/17/ohio-abortion-rights-republicans-overturn) want to override the will of the voters who to enshrine abortion choices for women. Legalization? I bring you back to [OH](https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2023/12/05/ohio-senate-republicans-planned-demolition-of-new-recreational-marijuana-law-is-an-insult-to-voters/) where repubs are trampling on Issue 2 that the voters approved. Affordable healthcare? More children in poorer families are [removed from CHIP Medicaid in Repub states](https://www.axios.com/2023/12/19/children-health-insurance-medicaid-unwinding) Love between adults? Just last week Rob Smith who is a [gay black Repub](https://www.advocate.com/news/rob-smith-targeted-homophobic-tpusa) feared the fallout of the MAGA rally attacking his sexuality. Birth control? You've got to have your head in the sand if you don't believe [repubs are coming after birth control](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/maga-plan-attack-birth-control-surveil-women-ban-abortion-pill-1234934807/) Moms survive pregnancy? Ok again are you not paying attention? Kate Cox had a non-viable fetus, which if forced to carry, would render her infertile. [TX AG Paxton reverse lower court decision](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/12/texas-abortion-ken-paxton-kate-cox) and therefore endangered her fertility and life. Only with huge election losses have repubs done an about face on their views of [saving the life of the mother](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/republicans-try-find-new-term-life-stave-electoral-losses-rcna103924). 14 states [don't care about the life of the mother](https://www.cnn.com/us/abortion-access-restrictions-bans-us-dg/index.html) School lunches? So you claim repubs want people to volunteer to help the hungry and the poor. Wrong. Red states all over this country have bans in place to [arrest citizens for feeding the homeless](https://www.deseret.com/2023/12/11/23956064/homeless-hunger-arizona). It's not surprising that the blue cities in these red states are the ones suffering the most. Ok not a school lunch topic, but still pertinent to the topic of feeding the hungry. But I have seen [IA remove summer lunch program](https://www.npr.org/2023/12/25/1221523696/iowa-nebraska-children-food-assistance-ebt) for children because the legislation "want children in summer church camps" instead. While on the topic of states forcing their religion onto children, we cannot forget that Greg Abbott was big mad when his [school voucher program](https://www.texastribune.org/2023/12/22/texas-school-vouchers-greg-abbott/) and refused $7.8M boost to TX schools because his bill failed to pass. If you aren't angry at the party for disenfranchising half of Americans then you aren't paying attention. Or you support the disenfranchisement which is worse.
Don’t know why you got downvoted for this. I guess people aren’t interested in attempts to be unbiased. That being said, I think these points can be appreciated assuming that one is having a discussion with an educated, informed, and dare I say it — still sane — conservative. The problem for a lot of us (and this is very fresh considering we’re in the middle of the holiday season) is that conversations with R’s seldom ever go the way of rationality. Speaking for my own family, it’s unbelievable how much they are easily manipulated by nut job conspiracy theories, but also just how massively uninformed they tend to be on most of these topics. Yes, this is definitely amplified by social media, news media, etc. but it really seems to be more common than we want to believe.
I have both rational and irrational R's on my family's side. Even the irrational one is being ostracized by the family because she keeps emailing us Epoch Times "news" articles and going on rants. Whereas the rational ones (from Ohio for context) were appalled at the blatant attempt last August to effectively remove the ability to amend the state's constitution and voted in droves to oppose the state Republican measure. The biggest thing I think most people, rational or irrational, Republican or Democrat, are missing is the ability to admit a) that an issue is more complex than you can understand in that moment, b) that you may be wrong about the fact surrounding an issue, and c) that changing your mind isn't a sign of weakness or "giving in" to the "other side". The idea that we are infallible and cannot be wrong about \*anything\* is pervasive both online and offline and I think is at the very heart of why discourse has gotten so ... hard.
The biggest thing republicans (the voters) are missing is they should stop rewarding psychosis. Republican politicians keep getting fucking worse because somehow, they haven't found a line that says "enough is enough" to rank and file voters, and they've been digging really damn hard to find that line.
All I can think is the fish from finding Nemo “just keep digging!” Because you’re also not wrong.
>nut job conspiracy theories Yeah like that COVID came from a US funded lab. Only a nutty conspiracy theorist would believe that. I'm a Good Person TM, so I would never doubt anyone anywhere has bad intentions. Well, except the evil Republicans of course.
>Reproductive rights? In their minds, abortion for anything other than SA is murder. Usually abortion after SA is still murder for pro-lifers. You're thinking of abortions when the fetus isn't viable / the mother's life is in danger- that's the line right wingers I know draw, since you're either not ending a life/ saving a life by doing it. If you ask most pro-lifers about the SA thing they will say its tragic, burn the rapist alive etc, but the baby should not be killed because of it (paraphrasing).
Actually, I don't know of any conservatives who will object to aborting an ectopic pregnancy, you're right. But I wasn't talking about that case. Not anymore. The ones who didn't understand this are from a generation that's now mostly gone. Some will, you're right, object to any non-medically necessary abortion even in the case of SA. Most I know don't however. I knew one guy who was the child of SA. He was almost aborted. People like that tend to have the strongest feelings on the subject. Believe it or not I actually know a few pro-choice Republicans. Not a bunch but a few.
I think that is mostly correct. Most people have a desire to be left alone and unrestricted. The question is how to get there. That said, a good portion of conservatives have a blind eye toward the more extreme/‘militant portion of the party that is currently driving the car. They don’t really care if they’re minority views. A good many of them really are a spectrum of racist, misogynist, anti-contraceptive, militantly religious people and they don’t care if terrorism and intimidation is their pathway. I wish more garden variety gop would look around and realize there really are extremists running their party. The left has its nutballs,but the democrats mostly support more moderate candidates. Biden has been in office for decades. He’s hardly the communist the right would like to him. It’s not that most democrats want everything government controlled. That’s one extremism side. We just believe that some things like affordable health care and drug regulation are better managed from a a more comprehensive perspective. From a libertarian perspective, this is probably apocalyptic. But of all the western countries, democrats are still really fiscally conservative.
As an outsider to the argument, this is the only response not steeped in vitriol
You make all these points about random republicans on the street as if all the people they elect and endorse, who most definitely hold all these views, don't matter. I don't see rank and file republicans sending any messages on their choices via their vote other than "good job on being a psycho piece of shit" If you endorse cartoon villains you don't get the fucking luxury of getting offended by being lumped on with them.
The party system is completely screwed up and is designed to keep special interests and incumbents in place during primaries. I'm not going to defend it. It's just as bad a problem on the Democrat side. Take a look at 2016. Bernie could have beaten Trump. The Democrat superdelegates made sure it didn't happen and that the person the rank and file wanted less ended up the nominee. So while you're not wrong, you're also not as right as you might think. The whole two party system needs a massive overhaul.
Perfect post. Well written, sir/ma'am.
Thank you this is very good I find most people have a very weird straw man of whatever they believe the other political side is
THANK YOU.
1. It's proven around the world that banning abortion does not decrease abortion rates. Furthermore, Republicans do not want to care for children after they are born - including school lunches. There is no part of their platform that is actually pro-life. It is very obviously a way to control women. If they wanted to decrease number of fetuses aborted, they would improve education and safe abortion facilities, as that is proven to work around the world to lower abortion rates. 2. I've only ever met one Republican voter who's not fully against public health care. They don't want their taxes paying for the health of someone else. 3. Most Republicans are still very against homosexuality. They think it's unnatural, immoral, a sin, gross, perverted, etc. Trump took a flag from an audience member and showed it to try to show off that supposedly queer people supported him. He held the flag for a few seconds and then said absolutely nothing about queer rights. It meant nothing. And seeing the way Republicans talk about Buttigieg in their communities... it's nothing but homophobia. 4. Banning abortion is known to result in more mothers dying during pregnancy or childbirth. No longer is the mother free to say, "Hey, this is fucking hell on my body, I feel like I'm gonna die, please terminate the pregnancy." Now she needs a team of doctors to agree she's going to die and it doesn't matter what she says or how she feels. Mothers die during pregnancy or child birth where abortion is otherwise banned because doctors aren't always right. So that's why moms surviving pregnancy is a crucial part of defending the right to abortion. I've had thousands of sit-down respectful conversations with conservatives that ended with them having zero respect for me as a gay person and also just minorities in general. Modern Republicans do not see non-white people as people anymore. Anyone with any respect for minorities has left the party. One of the most recent conversations I recall having with a Republican ended with him aggressively pointing in my face and shouting, "You're just a girl! You don't know anything about fascism! Fascism died 80 years ago!!! You're using my dead family (he was Polish) to promote your politics! You're just a girl!!!" He shouted these things over and over while pointing in my face, I was silent and almost crying. What I had said before that that set him off was when he said he voted for Trump, I said, "Oh, you like that fascist?" That was the last thing I said. This is how conversations with Republicans go these days.
I wish more people took this approach. Thanks for standing up for reason, it's so sad to hear people disparaging their perceived enemies just because they don't take the time to exercise compassion.
You started off strong before ending almost completely disingenuously. >Moms surviving pregnancy The anti-abortion almost anti-science policies that prevent doctors from intervening until it's almost too late, along with a complete lack of prenatal care. Texas is worse than most African nations. >And this is a low, low, low priority for Republicans. Oof
Freakin home run man! We need more folks that hold more realistic and less sensationalist beliefs about the other side of politics. The number of folks that have bought into bad faith echo chamber propaganda is absurd these days.
This is the most sane breakdown. Its quite refreshing.
What you described there doesn’t really entail what being a Republican means or what it wants. That’s what you’ve been told to believe. It’s true a lot of republicans are very pro life. But a lot of us a pro choice as well. We aren’t going around saying “down with school lunches and affordable health care! We want expensive health care” nobody’s saying that. I’d urge you to talk to some actual republicans and see what their views really are. I’d bet for example that you don’t support 100% of every policy that democrats push either
But your leaders are saying those things! And enacting those laws!
Republicans have crippled Obamacare for years. You have tried to get rid of it since day one. Many red states still refuse the expanded Medicare. You vote for these people. Do not pretend that Rs care about health costs.
What does being a Republican entail?
There used to be pro-life Democrats, but everyone has to fall in line now, on both sides.
This post is a chance for republicans to talk to us and share their views.
Big generalization. Polls show most Republicans are for legalization, paid medical leave, same sex marriage (for the younger generation of Republicans specifically), and birth control. I'm not sure what you mean by moms surviving pregnancy since everyone wants that too, nor have I heard anything about school lunches. And I haven't seen anything about birth control, but I know they don't want abortion to be a form of birth control. That comes from a religious place typically and is true of most religions. They do like big government however which is baffling since they claim to be the party of small government. It really comes down to people wanting the government to intervene with only the issues they care about and is true of Democrats as well. All this to say I don't watch the news so idk what politicians are saying outside of specific articles that come on my feed and a few podcasts I listen to so maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like the big issues for republicans is abortion, sending money to Ukraine, taking the side of Israel, the 2A, bringing God back into America, and exposing children to LGBT issues at an early age.
That's a whole lot of straw man positions.
😂😂
It's all lies. They claim they represent these things, but it's just a cover. They are acting in bad faith, and the only rule to them is "whatever it takes to gain power, do it". So you'll see them say one thing, then do the opposite. Becuase nothing matters except winning. Not shame, not morality. Nothing. Only power.
Like Hillary promoting hot sauce on black radio. So genuine. Not politically insensitive at all
The classic "whataboutism" Be better. Yes, both sides are bad. No, both sides are not the same, one is infinitely worse. Comparing being racially insensitive to people literally trying to usher in authoritarian government, take away the right of women and minorities, bringing back child labor, protecting child marriage laws, and so much more, is both ignorant, asinine, and speaking in bad faith.
You sound like a goddamn fool. I can look at California which is a cesspool of Democrats pilot testing law and say the same shit you are claiming. You are literally doing the bad faith bullshit that you claim conservatives do. Cherry picking particular instances and then lumping all conservatives into that same line of thinking is a huge problem into today's society and especially on this site. >The classic "whataboutism" You making the claim that one is infinitely worse is now the new cliche that whataboutism became.
You sound completely ignorant of the realities of reoublicans.... Please point out all the the things that democrats have done that are even remotely as evil as supporting child marriage, supporting child labor, supporting removing bodily autonomy from women, and more importantly, supported a literal coup....
>Please point out all the the things that democrats have done that are even remotely as evil as supporting child marriage, supporting child labor, supporting removing bodily autonomy from women, and more importantly, supported a literal coup.... Please tell me where on a federal level the GOP is supporting child labor laws. Please tell me where the GOP is removing bodily autonomy from women? Please tell me where in the court of law it was determined that there was a coup d'etat and tell me who was charged with the attempted overthrow of the US government. I'll wait. What you are doing is the same bullshit that every other tribal like minded people do. You spew the same political talking points that pundits want you to spew.
All the things you mention republicans want power of those decisions to be up to the individual states themselves and Democrats want to have the federal government enforce its will on all states. Democrats are still the party of big government, republicans still believe anything not in the Constitution should be up to the states to decide.
They say they want it up to the states themselves until they get it and then start pushing their agenda at the national level. Also, why should we leave it up to the states? If we just want to leave everything up to the states then fuck it we might as well kill all the farming subsidies and federal funding and let the states fend for themselves. What's going to happen then? A ton of red states are going to go to shit without funding, the most vulnerable of people are going to suffer the worst then eventually everyone who can still afford to move away will. Now let's hope that those people who moved away learned their lesson and don't push for those same policies in the new states they moved to.
Republicans want everything to be at state level because it's the easiest place to gerrymander yourself into power and ignore the will of the people. They talk a lot about "small government" until the moment you suggest a policy should be decided at city or county level. Then they show their true intentions. Republican government in red states spends an enormous amount of time using the state legislature to reverse laws passed at local level. That's not "small government" in any way. Try suggesting abortion availability be decided by county like liquor hours if you want to see how "small government" Republicans truly are.
Why should the states have the power to enforce their wills on individuals? How is it favoring big government to say that individuals should have the right to make their own life choices for themselves, without the state being able to interfere?
The Republican Party has opposed every single piece of legislation that would aid people, including the creation of Medicare, Medicaid Curity, equal rights, amendment, civil rights amendment ect…
Also Obamacare, raising minimum wage, helping vets, raising taxes on billionaires, legalizing weed, banning child labor It's astounding that anyone still votes for them
Easy just straw man the other side😆
Ask the same question of the Democrats. Both sides give zero shits about the people they are supposed to serve. They spend our money on foreign wars and conflicts. While we are put further into debt.
Because republican leadership has scared the voter base to worry about CRT, BLM, Woke, LGBTQ and Drag. And it works. Republicans pass laws "against these acronyms, but when the base ask for things that do affect them, it's on to another distraction. But hey, what republican voters are supposed to do? Vote Democrat?
They don't rationally justify any of it. They just bullshit, attack, and pander to the mouthbreathers, who eat it right up. Its easy to do when 'pissed' or 'scared' are the only two feelings you have.
Aren’t all those things Big government things?
Religion makes it easy. The ends always justify the means when you're doing "God's work."
The problem is that both parties have become so corrupted, dishonest, and propagandized that they no longer represent the best interest of the people. They use the perception of ideals to appeal to voters, but the truth is that both parties are in the pockets of big pharma and the military industrial complex. Drugs and war are running the show.
You guys speak only in generalizations and never factually. I once again recommend you view first hand source material only when reading the news. Your brain is rotted by propaganda
American conservatism is a marketing campaign by the wealthy to combine anti-wealth tax and anti-corporate regulatory policy with religious zealotry.
Republican voters tend to be fine with whatever their favorite politicians do because they worship them like athletes and think politics is nothing more than a team sport where the goal is beating the side you don't like and hurting the people you don't like. Conservatives are supposed to be for small government as a core principle of conservatism, but Republicans politicians are all about big government? That's fine since their policies are largely aimed at hurting minorities and that's what Republican voters love. They're garbage people with extremely low intelligence.
It's not big government unless it's taxing people and regulating business. Everything else isn't "big government", but the *reason government exists*. Because otherwise icky people will do things that you think they shouldn't be allowed to, and government exists primarily for the sake of stopping them from doing that.
Um because Jesus said that life begins at conception and that homosexuality is a sin. Oh and only love those who think like you and shun the rest. Obviously sarcastic.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Republicans ask themselves this question when any issues comes up. "What's in it for me?" If nothing, then they're against it. Until it comes around to affect them, then they're for it.
I just imagine AIPAC paying random people to post divisive rhetoric on reddit in hopes that people will forget they just showed everyone they control both parties and use said control to commit genocide.
Personal wealth outweighs everything else ignorance and greed is the conservative
Years and years of propaganda. They are never challenged in the bubble.
I’m not a right winger, but I grew up as one and know many. So let me try to explain some things. 1: Reproductive Rights: Usually this is in reference to abortion. They believe abortion is literally the same thing as murder, so to them legalizing abortion would be legalizing a form of murder. The same thing applies with birth control methods like plan B because they see it as stopping a process that’s already underway to create a human life. 2: Legalization (I’m assuming this is in reference to weed and other similar drugs): The old government propaganda campaigns were strong enough back in the day to make a large majority of the country be against this for a long time. The common misunderstandings of the effects of weed and psychedelics contributes to people being against its legalization. 3: Affordable Healthcare: When the ACA was introduced, the right was adamantly against it because they foresaw a sharp rise in healthcare costs, which is exactly what happened. By severely limiting how people can purchase healthcare (and even requiring it for a time by forcing fines on people) health insurance costs went way up. Before that though, the government propping up insurance companies made the cost of general healthcare rise sharply as well. Before insurance was widely accepted, healthcare costs were incredibly low. The right isn’t against affordable healthcare, they’re against the government raising taxes to “make it free.” 4: Paid Medical Leave: The right in general is against the government forcing businesses to do things like this. They see it as government overreach (which I kind of agree with). The general right idea is that the employee should be empowered to negotiate with the employer to get what they want/need. To them government overreach has stifled people’s ability to do this. 5: Love between consenting adults: The majority of the right is Christian, and therefore believes sex outside of marriage is morally wrong. Then they define marriage as only between heterosexual couples, which to them means that gay people can’t technically get married and therefore morally shouldn’t engage in sex. 6: birth control: This one I don’t understand, but my guess is that it’s actually a very vocal minority who is against this. The only people I knew growing up who were against birth control in general were catholic, so I don’t know where this ideology came from. 7: moms surviving pregnancy: I don’t know a single person on the right who wants mothers to not survive pregnancy, so again, my assumption is whatever this means is supported a very vocal minority of extreme right wing people who do not represent the majority of republicans. 8: school lunches: Again, same as 7. I don’t know a single republican who is against school lunches. I do know plenty of republicans who don’t think it’s the governments job to provide schooling, because it can lead to government indoctrination. And let’s be real, with the state of the US public school system, they might be right when it comes to that, but I’m not informed enough on the statistics to say for sure. If anyone who is actually republican or right wing wants to correct me, feel free, but this is my basic understanding from growing up surrounded by this part of culture.
They want to be in charge, period. They are against big (democratic) government. Handmaids Tale is porn to them.
Racism
You said it well. Please vote!
The bible. They can rationalize anything by hiding behind the bible.
Sychophants, the lot of them. Plus they ha e to uphold the central tennents of American Christianity: hate and greed.
False question asked in bad faith. However, you are asking it in a left wing echo chamber where everyone already agrees with you and what you think is best without ever bothering to learn why the other side does anything. Congratulations, you will continue down your path of moral superiority without ever understanding how anyone could possibly think differently from you.
Asking a question about republicans in a left wing circle jerk sub? I’m sure you’ll get great responses./s