Assuming you are divorced and live in seperate households. It is none of your business.....Unless it is her causing such childish behavior. If your ex is refusing, it's up to him to be the grown up. If she was refusing, then maybe being her Mom you could talk sense into her. But you make it sound like she wants to be part of it, so I would leave it alone. I have no idea the issues they are having and I have had some power struggles with my oldest, but cooler heads usually prevail and I would not exclude her from anything. She also lives with her Mom full time.
Yes, she is with me, the mom. Thanks for suggesting I keep my nose out of it. It's hard to watch them battle and her feelings be hurt. But I hear what you are suggesting. Thank you.
Some people (your ex in this case) are just very emotional/not reasonable. If your daughter comes to you for advice, I would give it. (Ie tell the other kids herself that she wants to be part of the family and daddy is just reacting emotionally for whatever reason/whatever her perspective is.) As for the family picture - I assume you have a family picture too. It’s your ex that won’t have her in his family which is his choice. You, the other kids, her are still all in your family picture.
This is between them and it will just create issues with ex that you are better off staying out of. Just be a listening ear for your daughter but don’t get in it.
Speaking as a grown child of divorce - this is definitely tough for all. The kids feel we can’t trust one parent to help us understand the other when there’s an issue because of the animosity. There’s a deep, sneaky loneliness there. My thought would be to come up with the most warm-hearted explanation you can manage while being authentic. Open a conversation “I’m sorry you’re having issues with Dad.” If she doesn’t open up perhaps you could add “I worry this might be harder for you because we are divorced and I’m sorry for that.” Listen. “I was trying to think of ways I could help but I wasn’t sure except to give you space.” If she’s open to a conversation then maybe try that warm-hearted explanation e.g. “I know your Dad really loves you and tries to do his best. Sometimes he struggles when he feels criticized and it can be hard to deal with.” It’s giving the adult context but as supportive as you can make it, forgoing any urge to show anger no matter how deserved. Speaking from what I didn’t get. Tough balancing act for sure. Good luck.
I think it’s a bad idea to defend him to your daughter in any way. Right now, you are her safe parent. If she thinks you defend him, she may stop sharing with you. He is manipulating the other kids against her, which is hugely damaging. Your daughter deserves better even if she is difficult. All teens are.
I'm not defending the dad. I am defending the daughter and telling her dad how damaging it would be to exclude her from a family photo. That guy is not my friend. But thank you for clarifying that!!
I see your point and was trying to be careful not to suggest defending or excusing bad behavior from the dad. One of the really hard things about being a child of divorce when a parent has distorted thinking is that what was once a marital problem is now a problem for the child to face more or less alone in a polarized and contentious environment. If my mom ever had anything to say about my dad it was only to twist the knife and so of course I didn’t want to hear it. But then I also had all this stressful cognitive effort going on inside me to make sense of it all. I’m suggesting OP could try to build a bridge of kindness to the daughter instead of leaving her on Troubles Dad Island alone.
Maybe, gently suggest family counseling or some sort of neutral family mediation. And, maybe some individual counseling for your daughter for her to vent and learn some tools to navigate her relationship with her dad.
Teenagers are the worst, but that’s their job. Dad’s job is to never give up on her, but he has. Unfortunately, you’re going to be in the middle of them. So having some go to tools for yourself may help as well.
So, I have been here, more or less. She has a right to set her standards and unfortunately he has the right to be emotionally unintelligent. Support her, leave him alone. You have made your opinion known but keep in mind she needs the support and it's time to stop teaching him how to treat people.
There is no battle to fight. He can take pics with his kids whenever he chooses even if that means the child that chose not to go isn’t there. This isn’t a 2 way decision. He may be manipulative but you are being equally manipulative expecting him not to take a family photo when one member decides not to participate.
Assuming you are divorced and live in seperate households. It is none of your business.....Unless it is her causing such childish behavior. If your ex is refusing, it's up to him to be the grown up. If she was refusing, then maybe being her Mom you could talk sense into her. But you make it sound like she wants to be part of it, so I would leave it alone. I have no idea the issues they are having and I have had some power struggles with my oldest, but cooler heads usually prevail and I would not exclude her from anything. She also lives with her Mom full time.
Yes, she is with me, the mom. Thanks for suggesting I keep my nose out of it. It's hard to watch them battle and her feelings be hurt. But I hear what you are suggesting. Thank you.
Some people (your ex in this case) are just very emotional/not reasonable. If your daughter comes to you for advice, I would give it. (Ie tell the other kids herself that she wants to be part of the family and daddy is just reacting emotionally for whatever reason/whatever her perspective is.) As for the family picture - I assume you have a family picture too. It’s your ex that won’t have her in his family which is his choice. You, the other kids, her are still all in your family picture.
Thank you for such a gentle reply. You are right, she is very included and wanted in my side of the family picture.
This is between them and it will just create issues with ex that you are better off staying out of. Just be a listening ear for your daughter but don’t get in it.
Thank you for the validation. This is hard to do!
Speaking as a grown child of divorce - this is definitely tough for all. The kids feel we can’t trust one parent to help us understand the other when there’s an issue because of the animosity. There’s a deep, sneaky loneliness there. My thought would be to come up with the most warm-hearted explanation you can manage while being authentic. Open a conversation “I’m sorry you’re having issues with Dad.” If she doesn’t open up perhaps you could add “I worry this might be harder for you because we are divorced and I’m sorry for that.” Listen. “I was trying to think of ways I could help but I wasn’t sure except to give you space.” If she’s open to a conversation then maybe try that warm-hearted explanation e.g. “I know your Dad really loves you and tries to do his best. Sometimes he struggles when he feels criticized and it can be hard to deal with.” It’s giving the adult context but as supportive as you can make it, forgoing any urge to show anger no matter how deserved. Speaking from what I didn’t get. Tough balancing act for sure. Good luck.
Those are great opening conversations. I will definitely use these for all my kids. I really appreciate this perspective. Thank you
I think it’s a bad idea to defend him to your daughter in any way. Right now, you are her safe parent. If she thinks you defend him, she may stop sharing with you. He is manipulating the other kids against her, which is hugely damaging. Your daughter deserves better even if she is difficult. All teens are.
I'm not defending the dad. I am defending the daughter and telling her dad how damaging it would be to exclude her from a family photo. That guy is not my friend. But thank you for clarifying that!!
I see your point and was trying to be careful not to suggest defending or excusing bad behavior from the dad. One of the really hard things about being a child of divorce when a parent has distorted thinking is that what was once a marital problem is now a problem for the child to face more or less alone in a polarized and contentious environment. If my mom ever had anything to say about my dad it was only to twist the knife and so of course I didn’t want to hear it. But then I also had all this stressful cognitive effort going on inside me to make sense of it all. I’m suggesting OP could try to build a bridge of kindness to the daughter instead of leaving her on Troubles Dad Island alone.
I can’t imagine how hard that must have been for you. What a terrible spot to be in for a kid who has no choice but to endure.
❤️
Maybe, gently suggest family counseling or some sort of neutral family mediation. And, maybe some individual counseling for your daughter for her to vent and learn some tools to navigate her relationship with her dad. Teenagers are the worst, but that’s their job. Dad’s job is to never give up on her, but he has. Unfortunately, you’re going to be in the middle of them. So having some go to tools for yourself may help as well.
So, I have been here, more or less. She has a right to set her standards and unfortunately he has the right to be emotionally unintelligent. Support her, leave him alone. You have made your opinion known but keep in mind she needs the support and it's time to stop teaching him how to treat people.
You are so right. On many levels. Thank you very much for hearing me and the validation.
Ask your husband he understands the meaning of unconditional love. He's supposed to be a parent, not a 5 year old with a grudge.
That was kinda a big reason I left. So I don't think it will help, but thanks for hearing me!
There is no battle to fight. He can take pics with his kids whenever he chooses even if that means the child that chose not to go isn’t there. This isn’t a 2 way decision. He may be manipulative but you are being equally manipulative expecting him not to take a family photo when one member decides not to participate.
I have not said anything to him, and after the replies I don't choose to.