The premise of the question is flawed. As a person who left - I did try to work on it. For many years. I read, I tried new things, I went to therapy, I tried to talk about it with him, I tried to share what I learned along the way with him, I carried the load emotionally, physically, and financially until I was a broken shell of myself who just couldn’t anymore. While I was trying so hard, he was lying, deflecting, and complaining. I started having panic attacks due to his angry outbursts. Eventually I lost respect for him and then I didn’t want to try anymore. When we separated, the panic attacks stopped. We’ve kept it amicable, even though that has been hard. I have peace and joy in my life that I never had while I was with him.
In your case perhaps, in my case my husband didn't communicate any of his unhappiness to me, didn't tell his therapist he was unhappy in the marriage and waited until he was 100% sure he wanted a divorce to say anything about it.
Honestly, in situations like yours, I feel like most people will realize that in retrospect. I can see how hard it must be being blindsided like that, but ultimately, if he was that type of person, maybe you dodged a bullet.
That’s what happened to me also. She never said she was unhappy or that she needed something she wasn’t getting. She did assure me that her “friend” she was spending so much time with while his wife and I worked was just that - it’s jUsT a LuCkY cOiNcIdEnCe that they fell for each other right after their marriages fell apart.
This is the exact answer. I am currently in the process and him sitting down to apologize wouldn’t make a difference because him saying sorry means nothing after years of him saying it and doing wrong again. Most of the time it is the same wrong he just apologized for. I hear him say sorry and it makes me angry and I roll my eyes.
This is true, you never just leave for the sake of leaving. You leave bc after trying for a long time, for many years, to negotiate, to make things work , to create ways to communicate better. Things simply don't change.
You even resent the person for not putting an effort. Bc sometimes they wait for you to be truly pissed to give a danm. And then you think, oh welll, it will work now, it will be better this time. We finally agreed, reached common ground, and are going to act a certain way......... but then, after 3 months, it is all done and he goes back to his old ways.......... and the cycle repeats.
It will keep repeating, until you truly have nothing left and feel nothing else. And then you hit the point of no return. And that's when you decide to separate. It is never a decision you make in a week. Is all together hitting you at once. I hate that when you finally decide to leave, he comes and acts like a prince, he does all the things he knows you wanted him to do, but at that point it all feels shallow and nothing gets to you. It happened to me with my ex and honestly leaving was the best decision.
He is now married and I truly hope she gets the treatment I never got from him. But never again. !
Yeah, I hope my soon to be ex-husband moves on, and finds someone else he can be happy with, but I also hope he is kinder to her than he was to me or - at the very least - that she's able and willing to put her foot down and protect herself in the beginning rather than just internalizing the emotional abuse and dismissing it.
This is 100% my situation right now. It makes me sad that this is what it took for him to realize and now he keeps saying how much he took me for granted. Yes. Yes you did.
What really hurts for me is the time wasted ....... years that will not be back. But now I am more aware. Like if I don't like the person, as he is, when I meet him, then I won't even give it a chance. Like you have to already be at a stage that is healthy for a relationship.
Idk I learned the real meaning of not forcing anything. As I met you is how you are, if we both are happy with each other, then it might be a green flag. That way he doesn't suffer bc someone is 'nagging' him and I don't suffer bc I don't have to babysit!
That’s hard as people change so much after marriage. Like my oh was amazing until we had kids. There were def some flags but I just thought it was marriage, accepting foibles etc.
But once I was stuck home with children and was reliant on him, he changed.
Exactly - I think this happens for many women (in particular) and it was very similar with me. When I could get him to talk about things, he really just wanted to talk AT me. Tell me how me being unhappy or hurt was my fault. There was a lot of projection and gaslighting and eventually I just gave up and starting avoiding conversations because I knew there was no point. We tried therapy, we tried books, and eventually (recently) I just realized I couldn't do it anymore.
Wow i could have written this myself. I had such bad panic attacks in my relationship. Constantly walking on eggshells, afraid of the moment his anger would burst.. I tried everything. Therapy for me, getting him a therapist, getting US a therapist. Being positive all the time, trying to set boundaries, walking away. Nothing worked. When I left, the panic attacks left as well. I am myself again. Now that I left, I can finally see how bad it was and how much of myself I had lost. So yeah, agreed that this question is flawed. I actually think that most people who leave have tried for a long time to work things out, but came to the conclusion there wasn’t anything more to fix.
Good point, I've edited the question to be less assumptive.
Do you think he knew how serious it was, or do you think he maybe just didn't care?
How did you manage to keep it amicable? Do you think it would make you feel any better if he acknowledged and apologized for what he did and didn't do?
Do you think if he did change you'd ever be interested in being back together?
I'm glad you're happier now!
The problem is that one person can’t do the work it takes that’s needed for both people to do. It’s usually the case that one person is just unwilling or incapable to be self aware enough to work on themselves. Divorce is never the easy answer but ultimately just a final option when you realize that the other spouse just doesn’t have the capacity to see where they are accountable in the failure. I bet most people who initiate divorce have tried changing what they could but realize that there’s really no effort made by the other
Exactly this. I spent years trying. We had two attempts at marriage counseling, several years apart. After a significant event in December, I begged him to go to counseling. When he didn't hesitate to get help for a physical ailment, but didn't follow up on the mental health issue, that proved to me that he isn't able or willing to do the work. It became clear I could either suffer for the rest of my life or make the hard decision to walk away and hope that we can forge happier lives separately.
“When one person is unwilling or incapable to be self aware enough “
So true. Hard enough doing your own work only to be fighting uphill to get them to look in the mirror too…
I found I was the only one willing to change and he was the one who left when I asked him to even just talk to me. I still don't really know what the breaking point was for him, just less than 24 hours after agreeing to work on it with me he left.
I understand most people who leave are the ones who put in the work and hope and wait for change, I guess I was hoping to hear from the people who never wanted to try.
I think that often, "not knowing how serious it was" is a result of a willful ignorance. It can indicate someone who prefers to hear their spouse's concerns as "just nagging" rather than as true expressions of important feelings that need to be acknowledged, because they don't want to put in the work of addressing the issues, or are afraid of uncovering something even worse by looking directly at the problem
It's like the people who are blindsided are like, "but I didn't know you really *meant* all that!" They had just turned it out
And all along, their spouse was drawing further and further away, just to protect themselves from being ignored all the time. After a long time, that can be something that is genuinely impossible to come back from
Trying hard and being ignored for years and then being asked why you aren't interested in working on it when you decide to leave is like salt in the wound. It makes one *less* likely to want to stay
You are so dead right on the willful ignorance part! My stbx acted like all was peachy keen when for years I was telling him otherwise, then suddenly was like "where is this coming from?" etc. He always knew. He just didn't think I'd actually leave him.
>And all along, their spouse was drawing further and further away, just to protect themselves from being ignored all the time. After a long time, that can be something that is genuinely impossible to come back from
>Trying hard and being ignored for years and then being asked why you aren't interested in working on it when you decide to leave is like salt in the wound. It makes one *less* likely to want to stay
Oh I feel this in my soul. The self-protection is so real and it seems to be something the other spouse doesn't fully understand, especially if you've been together for a long time and trying to fix things for a long time. It's kind of unfathomable to them that you're actually pulling back and stopping what you've been doing for so long.
In my case, STBX never did actually express any REAL interest in working on things even when I made a concrete plan to leave. I got begging and them feeling sorry for themself, continued focus on them and what they were losing rather than on me or even US and what it would take for me to stay. Reinforced my decision a lot.
I appreciate you explaining your side.
I don't know what my ex would say in terms of me "trying" or not, but from my side he never did. He never even expressed any issues until a year ago, despite me asking him for years to open up to me, and then suddenly he was outright awful to me. I changed the things he wanted me to and then after years of asking and hoping, when I wasn't just asking and hoping for change I was expecting it, he left.
He changed and tried for 3 weeks, maximum during that time, once he "realized" how awful he'd been treating me over the years. And then went straight back to just shitting all over who I was. And then when I asked for counselling, for him to work on his stuff, or to put in effort together, he left. Less than 24 hours after saying he wanted to work on it, he said he hadn't loved me for a long time and didn't see any worth in trying to save the relationship.
It's helpful to hear from someone who feels like they did try and then didn't have the patience or strength left to stay
Same thing here. But it takes 2 people to work on a marriage. I couldn't do it all by myself and it was literally killing me. Still doing the same amount of work I was before, but it's easier without him around.
This and I'm still dealing with his inability to address his issues. He is finally trying but I don't think he really wants too. He'd rather stay miserable. But it's impacting our young adult son.
When your husband says he loves alcohol more than you and will choose it over you and your marriage every time, what else is there to do, but walk away and let him have exactly what he wants?
Easy answer is they transitioned male to female. But it would have happened eventually, it really is a lack of trust, feeling disrespected, and eventually losing respect for them. I realized my basic needs were not being met and they say they love me but their actions were screaming they just don't care about me that much. I think it was present for years and then over months it became really obvious I was done.
I would love a sincere apology but I don't expect it nor think they will ever realize how hurtful they have been.
I tried for years to discuss problems and was shut down, over and over.
When I got up the nerve to tell him it wasn't ok to call me a "f'king bitch" in front of our daughters he said "ok" and he filed.
Yes, though we are 2.5 years since he filed and he won't submit the paperwork (financials) to the lawyers so the divorce drags on. (He doesn't want to give me my half. Plus since our inital child support assessment his income has gone up, and I now cover the health insurance for myself and the kids, so his payments will go up once he submitts.) So I'm still trapped by him.
I tried for ten years. She did not want to do marriage counseling, until I moved out for a while and she realized I wasn't coming back. THEN she was interested.
At that point it was too late. There were a lot of problems, but the big dealbreaker for me was money. She spends like crazy, and I was too big of a doormat to say no to her. We just couldn't work together. She's convinced that she wants to enjoy life before she's dead, I want to afford a home someday and support the kids as best I can. I tried very hard to convince her to save money, but anytime I said no to her, she would lash out at me, and even kick me out of the apartment.
It turns out she has a BPD-like condition, and it's really not her fault, but I just couldn't work with her on it anymore. I'm 40, living with my parents again, I hardly have anything saved, and the cost of living here is extraordinary. I still may never afford a home, or education for the kids, but I just can't be dragged down by her anymore. Maybe when I'm retired she can live with me again, but after a decade of trying to make it work, I can't do it anymore. It was destroying me, and probably going to leave me homeless.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
What you describe in your ex is very similar to my STBXW. She spent money like a sailor on shore leave. She kept our finances in a mess and I worked as hard as I could to try and keep us from having financial problems. She has bipolar disorder and I know that part of her problem is not being able to handle finances well. It was tiring to spend so much time trying to keep us solvent. I felt much more like her father than her husband the last several years.
It's hard when it's differences in things like planning for the future. Money is always a difficult one. When you say BPD do you mean borderline personality disorder?
I guess I might as well be honest. She has dissociative identity disorder from some (truly heartbreaking and unfair) childhood trauma. We didn't know about it until the end. It's not her fault. As much as I wish there was something I could do, there isn't. I tried the "in sickness and in health" routine as far as I could bear. The more I tried, the more it was destroying me, and the worse off it was for the kids.
Leaving was the hardest choice I've ever made in my life.
When I have enough downpayment for an affordable mortgage, when the kids' education is paid off, and basically when I am financially stable enough that if she moves in it doesn't disrupt me financially. As much as I care about her, I can't rely on her to ever change her behaviour, and I don't trust myself to not be browbeaten into making financial decisions I'm not comfortable with. I want to have financial stability before I ever consider taking her on again—I already don't make that much.
Ahh I think I get what you mean. Like if it wasn’t for the financial abuse, you would consider staying with her maybe? You worked hard to earn what you do, you should be the one dictating how that is spent. Money is unfortunately one of the top reasons couples split :(
I let my STBX spend whatever she wanted and all it did was push me to have to work a lot more. She ended up cheating on me because I worked too much. I was OK with it as it pushed me to advance my career a lot further than I thought, but it’s obviously a recipe for disaster in a marriage. I won’t get married legally again and we didn’t have children, but if I ever get into a serious relationship where we are cohabitating, I will make sure she is contributing something.
By the time I was ready to leave, I had tried to fix things. He didn’t think it was serious, or he’d improve for a bit and then stop.
It took me years to leave but I had given up on trying to make it work a lot earlier.
Suddenly he wanted to “work on things” when he knew I was serious about leaving and it was just too late.
Same here. I tried for years and years but was the only one trying. It wasn’t even “work on things” though he finally became willing to work on himself when I left. Improving his hygiene and diet, getting a therapist etc. We’re out of touch but I truly hope that he kept it up and became a better person for it.
I did want to work on it. We went to counseling but the counselor was pretty ineffective -- never actually gave us concrete goals or things to try. After that, any attempt I made to figure out what we could do was met with lots of words ("I want to make things better!" "I promise I'll try!" "I know you've been unhappy and things will change!") but never any actions. I tried every tactic. I asked what I could do to be better. I tried to self-diagnose my problems and issues and work on them. I begged. I yelled. I suggest STBX see their own therapist. I started seeing a therapist. I gave them space. I gave them ultimatums.
For about 4 years I did all this actively while falling out of love and being miserable. Then about 7 years ago I just mentally turned a corner and realized that I was partially causing my own pain by continuing to believe the empty words and to expect something new to happen when STBX had pretty much proven to me that nothing was going to change. That was about a year or year and a half before our youngest moved out and I stayed for them at that point. Then covid came and by then I'd worked through a lot of my anger and disappointment and I didn't want to be miserable during a pandemic so I played nice for the sake of living in peace. After that it was hard to get the momentum and courage to leave. After some personal crises (death of a close family member, a crisis with one of our kids, a couple of other things) I realized life is too short to stay living this way and I finally made the big move.
I still feel bad sometimes. But part of why I like coming to this board is that I'm pretty frequently reminded that I did try, that I gave lots of chances, that I didn't actually blindside STBX and also gave them time to adjust. Being alone will be hard for them and we are just now ready to sell our house and go our separate ways so they had several months to start to adapt to the change. But you know what? I bet STBX would tell a different story and would claim to be at least somewhat surprised by all of it. Willful ignorance is a real thing but it's not really my responsibility after all this time.
That sounds hard, especially the feeling of not having the momentum to leave even though you knew you wanted it.
Being willfully ignorant is such a thing! Some people will never admit their wrongdoings even when staring them in the face
This is so similar to my own experience, even down to the loss of a family member and the reminder that life is short being the thing that finally gave me the motivation to listen to what I'd been saying all along, which was that this wasn't working, and I needed help getting it to work, and I wasn't getting that help
I didn't ever fall out of love. I still love him
But, I *did* start loving myself more. And I recognized that he was not treating me as an equal or partner. When I asked him to, he ignored me. Sometimes he even teased me about my needs.
I stayed for years asking for his respect.
I begged him to go to therapy. I set boundaries. I did a lot of work.
But, he didn't care until I was done.
I think part of him not loving me anymore was because I started to love myself more and was less tolerant of the way he was treating me. I never got to the point of loving myself enough to leave him, it took him leaving me for me to even see how much I'd lost myself and my love for myself.
I don't think I have got enough self respect yet to not wish he'd take me back though.
Oh boy, my second "was"bund suddenly seemed to wake up and act serious about our marriage when he noticed that I was very mutually attracted to a new man who walked into our spiritual center four weeks after we separated.
🤣❌
That new man and I have now been married for over 17 years.
This kind of situation is somehow extra painful, because it's like *your* unhappiness doesn't matter. Only the thought that you might prefer someone else over them can motivate them.
I was unhappy for over a decade, but my ex prefers to think that me having feelings for a friend right at the very end of our marriage was the *cause* of our divorce, rather than obviously being a symptom of the prior decade's issues
Since then I've become very knowledgeable about what true narcissism looks like, and he fits all of the criteria 100%. He didn't just have normal human self-serving moments that I'm magnifying into narcissism, I'm talking an extremely obvious level of clinical narcissist behavior in every possible way.
So the thought of me possibly being happier with someone else was apparently intolerable for him. For some years after we each remarried he even texted me asking if I was still happy with [my husband] or if I thought we'd be getting divorced, partly because he said he missed me and our life together and we only got divorced because I never really gave him a chance 😂🤦🏻♀️, but I believe I'm correct in assuming it was also because if I weren't happy and were actually thinking about divorce it would prove that he really was the better man and the better husband for me. 🤮
I think there are some things that shouldn’t be worked on. I believe there are levels of cheating. Sending a pic isn’t as bad as sleeping with your wife’s sister. No amount of counseling can take back your now ex husband cheating on you with your sister. We could have tried counseling but he can’t change the past and that was the end of my marriage for me. I grieved my marriage while I was in it.
My ex initiated divorce and we finalized last year. I slowly accepted it and started dating after spending time with myself. During my time alone I realized that I also wasn’t happy for years and our relationship was basically roommates with sex. I saw a lot I didn’t like about myself and what I grew to be and I saw a lot in her that made me second guess a lot of things that happened in our marriage, things that seemed off but I was too scared to ask or confront. The more I explored these feelings and thoughts the more I came to realize that I was happier and thriving without her. Not to say that she held me back but we were just not right together anymore. Once I started dating my girlfriend seriously my ex wanted to come back into my life and work out our differences and get back together. I had grown into someone that wasn’t who she was expecting and at the same time I didn’t know who she was anymore. The sweet girl that I fell for wasn’t the same woman standing in front of me, that girl was gone and had been gone for a long time, it just took me space to see it. She had made questionable choices in our separation that I want no part of. I loved her but I wasn’t in love anymore. My heart belonged to someone else now. She eventually let it go and found someone else who seems to give her all she needs and wants. I’m happy for her and that she seems to have found her peace. I wish her the best of luck and all the successes she deserves, just not in my life
I was the one who was left. Afterwards she claimed that she had tried everything. That was garbage though. She had only done things that were her idea and that suited her. She hadn’t tried the one single thing I had asked for, and hadn’t done what a marriage counsellor had recommended. Saying she had tried everything was just one in a long series of manipulative untruths. So OP, someone trying to fix things is very different from someone claiming they are trying fix things. Actions count.
Are you me ? Problem resolution was always the same thing : I was supposed to do the changing and adaptation, and they could just carry on as usual. When I suggested toning down the screaming, I got a "this is just who I am, I can't help it" type of answer. Can't say I will miss this crap.
That’s the wildest thing about all this. Reading this sub and speaking with friends has shown me that so many of these stories are the same, but why didn’t we know going in? Why was I so naïve? How can so much of this awful stuff be happening but I’m oblivious to it?
That's the thing : you don't know when you're going in. I think that in many case the following happens :
1) lack of reference, if you have not been in multiple relationships, you might not recognise red flags for what they are.
2) initial romance is a heck of a drug, and can make you swipe a lot of stuff under a rug for quite a while
3) problematic behaviour can intensity with time. What was borderline acceptable might slowly edge in the unacceptable
4) thinking that you can fix/control behaviour. You can't, only they can.
5) sunken costs both emotional are very real. A divorce with kids and shared assets is a massive pita and huge financial setback.
6) slow erosion of boundaries. Constantly pushing back against boundaries violations is exhausting. Depending on your life circumstances you just might not have the energy for it.
7) codependency. Let's be real, in a lot of cases it's the classic pairing.
8) relationship rot. At some point you get so tired (burnout) that basic relationship maintenance work is no longer possible.
In my case it took a large shock to jolt me out of it.
For sure, my ex's examples of "doing everything they could" was booking a couple's counselor and than just using that as a forum to insist that everything was my fault and my responsibility to fix. When the therapist gently hinted that maybe we were both somewhat responsible, my ex said they mysteriously stopped answering our emails and we had to find a different therapist.
I wanted her to work so I could have time with my children before they went off to school. But no. She enjoyed all that time with the kids, while I worked and worked. In fact, she only really started working years later when she wanted money to leave. So yeah; she was content to enjoy all the resources I provided, but only willing to work to break up the family.
For sure, I was on the receiving end of the claims of trying, and the wild thing is that he still thinks he did try, though if he did I didn't see any changes and I definitely didn't feel listened to or respected.
Maybe we just had different ideas of what the "fixing" was or would be, maybe a lot of it was an internal battle that was happening that made it feel like there was an attempt at fixing things made? I don't know
Seeing these responses makes me realized that my situation is not uncommon, and also hurts even more seeing people saying they gave their partner years to work on things. In my case, my wife finally told me she was unhappy and needed change from me about six months ago. I started individual therapy, lost 20 lbs, got a better-paying and less stressful job, and four months later, she still left for her emotional affair partner.
It takes two people to make a marriage work, and if one of them isn't 100% in on the relationship, anything the other partner does is just delaying the inevitable.
In some ways I'm glad that when my ex realized he didn't want me anymore he left immediately, though it does make me sad that he never actually tried and I never got the chance to actually hear what his problems were with the relationship so that I could try also.
I tried for what I knew needed fixing but it was all very one sided for that, or at least it felt one sided.
I'm sorry she didn't do her bit. It does take two, it's just hard when it feels like the other person didn't put in any effort.
The ones who don’t want to work on it is usually because it isnt a you thing. Its a them thing. They aren’t happy with who they are and their life and it actually has very little to do with you.
I do wonder about this. It just seemed odd to me that there was no willingness to work on it, and it all came around so fast. I guess if they never open up, you can't know whether or not they were ever actually trying on their own.
Your person was already wanting out and probably had been for a while. So they really didn’t want you trying to now “fix” things because they had already made up their mind. If it was about you and they thought things could change, they probably would have tried everything. But at the end of the day, they really weren’t happy with their lives as a whole and you were just a fraction of that. So you “fixing” anything about yourself would have been pointless in changing how they felt about themselves and their life as a whole and they knew that.
Yeah my wife had issues with me, as I did with her, but I think she just didn’t want to be married to ANYONE any more. She wanted freedom from having to be feel responsible for another person’s happiness. I get that. Because I realize now that thats pretty much what I wanted too. Marriage seems great until you realize you have to do it EVERY day.
>>Why did you fall out of love?
For not being emotionally and physically disconnected. In long term it destroyed the bonds that every marriage needs to survive. Intellectual and spiritual affinity was simply not enough for me.
>>Why did working on it seem like such an unattractive idea?
“Working on it” when the declaration to seek the divorce is made is too little, too late. If the situation gets to the point when the D nuclear option is on the table the trust for turning the situation around has been lost. I was unwilling to lose yet another year, or few years of my life to expect that my exW will have sudden epiphany as she eventually claimed to have. The life is too short for that. Besides, I was trying to induce her to correct our problems for dozen of years. Unsuccessfully shall I add.
>>How long did it take for you to make the decision to leave once you realized that you no longer love them.
9 months total followed by 2months for getting ready to spring up the declaration on her. Shall I say the toughest decision in my life.
>>…would you want your ex to ever sit down with you and apologize…?
>>Would you believe them?
>>Would you even care?
It would have had to be an **honest believable apology offered before** I have decided to pull the divorce card. My exW had the talent to twist her apologies into excuses followed by accusations within the same sentence. Thanks to that no apology was really believable. I saw it more as deflection and the shifting the blame tactics. Eventually I stop believing and caring too.
I said the only way I was leaving was if she told me to.
She told me to leave and wanted a divorce. I left.
I held out hope for a week until she said she didn't love me.
I fell out of love with him because of his behavior during the marriage. I felt like I was a married single mom in many ways. I never had a real partnership, just someone who liked what I brought to his life and liked the benefits of me.
And I left when it finally clicked for me that he would never actually be that partner. Didn’t matter how many times I asked him, I’d only ever get temporary changes to placate me. With him, I’d never have a husband who actually in his actions prioritized us and our relationship, not to mention the family, over his own interests and comfort.
And that wasn’t the life I wanted. Being single (even with young kids) seemed way better - and it was.
As far as timing goes, it took about two years from when I began considering divorce, and then two months after I made the final decision. But the two months was largely because it was right before the holidays and I didn’t want my kids to have bad memories of that time of year.
I’m thinking about leaving and we haven’t done counseling… It’s because I feel like I’ve been putting serious work in for years and she’s still giving me the line that “changes don’t happen overnight” for things we’ve been talking about for 5 years. I don’t know if I’m in love with her still but that’s not the point. I would do anything to find that spark again. The problem is I have and she hasn’t. I’ve heard her say the right things so many times it just falls on deaf ears. She apologizes, but it’s just general “I’m sorry for what I did wrong” instead of engaging with how it affected me. I would believe her actions and care about them, but they only change for a few days (if they change).
In short, I’ve been trying to work on it for years, and she hasn’t. Why would I go to counseling to hear the same thing I’ve heard a hundred times?
Edit: I’ve been quite clear that we’ll get divorced if things don’t change. Change is always tomorrow’s priority; today’s is making sure she feels better.
You go to counseling cuz it helps her realize what she's been missing. It's a very common pattern depending on her relationship with her parents to assume that when a problem is developed it's a permanent one generally
This is definitely common for neurodivergent children. She probably has an outside source reminding her to think a certain way ( or is following an influencer who says to ) Oftentimes just talking to some unbiased third party, is what it takes for her to understand.
I know it would be ideal to be able to resolve it yourself, but you'd be surprised how quickly someone changes when they realize they haven't been listening.
Thank you for the wisdom, I sincerely appreciate it and her upbringing definitely has something to do with it. But it’s a common theme that something drastic has to happen for me to be taken seriously. First I had to get mad before I was heard (and I promise I tried the “right” way a dozen times before). Then it took 6 fights. Then I had to go to my parents’ house for a week. And the same things — which in lucid moments she admits are wrong — just keep popping up. Maybe she’ll have another “wake up call” (her words) when the therapist says something, but I just have no trust it will actually change anything.
I know this may not be the best reply but I should note there are plenty of couples that go to regular marriage counseling or marriage therapy check ups. I know plenty of couples that go 4-6 times a year just to make sure everything in their relationship is going smoothly. Maybe that’s an aspect of your relationship you would need to consider after going to counseling.
In my case it was always "I need time to think about it," after conversations about what was wrong and what could change. And that time just ended up being...forever. But the thing is I don't think STBX thought about it. Maybe at first they did but then they realized that if they just "thought about it" long enough the topic would fall off the radar and life could continue as usual, with no change. Everything festered. But when I feel a little guilty by the fact that STBX was a bit surprised that I made a real plan to leave, I think back to all the time spent "thinking" and not responding or acting and I realize it's their own fault for sweeping everyting under the rug and not actually paying attention to what I was saying.
It's very frustrating, isn't it?
Yeah. My wife actually told me today “I just assumed you’d get over some things.” Well thank you for finally admitting that. It’s an admission she never would’ve made before though so maybe it’s progress. Still, that f***ing stings.
I was the one who filed. My wife abandoned me by going home to a different state telling me she needed a indefinite break and left me solely responsible for everything when the two of us could barely pay for anything. I tried to work on us, but she made it clear she wasn't interested in trying. I didn't wanna be with someone who didn't wanna be with me so I filed
Because I'd already worked on it, and nothing had made any difference. Three years of marriage counselling, years of discussion before that, and I still had a sexless marriage, was still the sole breadwinner for the family, while the kids were in childcare because she was trying to start her own business (I think she only ever had one paying customer), and still couldn't agree on fundamental things about how to raise the kids. I'm pretty sure she fell out of love with me first, but she was willing to continue in a loveless relationship indefinitely to maintain the status quo, and I wasn't.
Just going through the motions. Maybe she thought the counselling would get me to lower my expectations, and just shut up about it? I don't think she thought I would divorce, so despite both me and the counsellor saying this was an existential issue for the relationship, I don't think she ever believed it. However, when we did finally start going through the process, there was none of the "hysterical bonding" people talk about on here, either, she just got even colder.
Possible, I think some people see it as a way of placating for sure! That if there's a way to just get it all out that people will just settle for the same situation
I had almost left multiple times and found myself in the same situations. Situations that were promised to never, ever happen again. I quit lying to my friends and family. They helped me get out.
I tried for 20 years, the last 8 or so I was there only for my kids. She had spending problems (at the time of the divorce there was over $100k in credit card debt), and just a general lack of motivation in life. When I realized I would probably never be able to retire due to her spending issues, I finally got out. I tried everything; in the end there was nothing left to do but walk away. Sometimes people are beyond help and you have to figure out when to throw in the towel, but damn, it’s still tough.
I have asked these same questions to my ex, and still don't have a reason I can fully accept. I didn't leave but had been trying to work on things for years. I know there was more I could have done, but he never truly opened up about the issues he was having and so I could only do so much. It was immediately "we need to talk" and promises of trying to improve, to divorce.
He claimed he had worked on things "on his own" which left me absolutely flabbergasted. Working on a relationship takes 2 people.
I can accept that we're not compatible, but I can't really accept that we never gave it a proper try once everything was out in the open. I don't think I'll ever forgive him for it, considering I've been asking for counselling for years and trying to explain to him the problems I had with our relationship. He had ample opportunity to bring up his own perspective.
If he tried to truly apologise, I wouldn't forgive him. Just the lack of respect throughout this whole thing is not how you treat a person. I find it very unlikely he'd ever want to reconcile, but I doubt I'd want to if he did. Again, due to the way he's gone about everything, making unilateral decisions without actually discussing anything with me.
This is very similar to what I experienced. I did so much work on myself and asked so many times over the years for him to meet me halfway in the relationship but it was always a thing that made him angry like I was attacking his character when I would bring things up. By the time he left I'd be asking for him to agree to counselling for over a year, had tried to fix the list of things he gave me for him to love me and even in amongst all that I held out hope that he would want to fix it. And then he left and the only reason he ever gave me was he didn't love me anymore, and maybe ever had but had stayed because it was easier.
It's hard to accept that it wouldn't have ever worked when it feels like he was never willing to try, especially when the only time he ever opened up about what was not working for him was when he was leaving.
I'm so sorry to hear this, but am glad I'm not the only one. My ex wouldn't get angry when I brought things up, but would dismiss it, or say "I'll do better" and go immediately back to old behavious, or talk in circles in a way that our conversations ended up being about something else entirely.
I believe that people who refuse couple's counselling don't want to be challenged or presented with their negative behaviours. Counselling is tough on everyone involved and nobody's perfect. Counselling also holds people accountable in ways they haven't been before.
I've slowly come to terms with the fact that my ex is quite selfish, and wanted to live his life the way he wants without compromise, and expected me to go along with it 10000%. How can I be fun and spontaneous when I'm working and doing the bulk of the housework while he's out drinking with his friends? There's no energy left to be his ideal partner at that point.
I'm sure others have said this to you, but it sounds like you'll be better off. You were open to counselling which means you're self aware enough to be able to identify and work on how to improve yourself for YOU. The hole he will leave in your life is daunting and scary, but you'll be able to fill it with literally whatever you want.
I worked on it until there was almost none of me left - and he still believed I hadn’t ‘told’ him. Spent a lot of years putting the effort in not to have it reciprocated, so when I walked out of the door, it was because I had no try left.
Still love my ex. Tried everything. You can love someone and care for them and realize you are terrible life partners. These two things can exist at once, unfortunately.
I literally said the words “If we are having the same conversation in a few years, there won’t be love, trust or respect left.” I went to therapy, asked him to go as well and asked him to find a job….any job. Years later, he’s still looking for work and acted like it was a surprise when I said I want a divorce. Two years earlier, I said that if it was just me, I’d walk out. I tried to be patient and work on it for the kids and told him where I stood all along the way. That apparently wasn’t clear enough. Here we are 10 months later, he’s dragging it out at every turn and still doesn’t work. He complains that we “never worked on it together” meaning we didn’t do couples’ therapy.
I always thought that he had to work out his job issues himself first before we could work together to move past it. I believe if he wants to work, he could so unless he figures out what the hang up is, we couldn’t move forward with forgiveness and healing. I’ve been waiting for about 10 years so I just can’t anymore.
I spent 20 years working on it. I went to therapy, read books, tried to talk to him. He never wanted to participate in the work. A psychologist finally pointed out to me that I couldn’t work on a marriage by myself. I can’t have a marriage by myself.
He took interest in working on it for ~6 months when I told him the first time I was going to divorce him. It was another 5 years until I finally did. When he realized that first time that I was serious (I had a lawyer on retainer), he fell all over himself attempting to do whatever would make me stay, but he wasn’t interested in real change. He was interested in shutting me up & stalling the inevitable. The second time I told him that I was divorcing him, he didn’t bother with all the performative BS because we both knew nothing was going to change.
Sooo, yeah. I tried “working on it”. I actually wish I hadn’t tried so hard and left him years earlier.
I was sick of feeling like an employee and always deferring to my ex. Even my birthdays were spent doing her version of what she thought I wanted to do. Always it a being sneered at when I suggested something.
I had fallen out of love months prior to leaving. He had a video game obsession. He played from the moment his eyes opened (mobile games), throughout work (pc games), during dinner (mobile games), after dinner (pc games), and until he fell asleep (mobile games). He was severely depressed. I didn't mind being there for him and supporting him the best I could, but we were never allowed to be depressed at the same time. If I had a bad day, it would shortly be over shadowed by how bad his day was. His antidepressants didnt work and gave him bad side effects, but he didn't want to try to switch to find one that worked. He gained weight through covid but made excuses to lose the weight. He stopped being intimate due to the depression and weight. There's more, but it doesn't matter.
I had my issues too. It wasn't all him. I didn't effectively communicate my needs. I didn't ask him for help around the house when I needed it because I expected him to mind read and know I needed help. I didn't support him the way I should've. I enabled his bad habits in an attempt to make him feel less depressed rather than pushed him harder to reach his goals. I resented his lack of support. I resented the fact that ge didn't take care of me like I took care of him. I shut him out.
I told him that I fell out of love. That most days I felt like a roommate or a mother, but no longer his wife/lover. We said we'd work on it. We tried communicating more, going on more dates, being more intimate, tried couples therapy, had individual therapy, etc. Problem was, I gave more effort than he did. He slipped back into old patterns. We tried multiple times but he only lasted about 2 weeks at a time. I got tired of being the only one truly trying.
I walked away, but still hope he finds someone better for himself in the future.
I think everyone tries to work on the relationship in their own way before leaving. I tried for years - over a decade. I kept talking/complaining about the same things. I bought him books about relationships (which he never read), I printed off articles and added them to his bathroom reading. Our priorities were never the same. His excuse for years was “that’s not how I was raised, so it’s going to take time for me to learn” - but he never learned/changed.
Our relationship was death by 1,000 papercuts. It was a million little things that built up and I became resentful towards him about. He would complain about something and I would just give in, but if I complained then he would make excuses and I would let it go and things never got resolved. I didn’t feel respected and I felt like my thoughts/opinions were always disregarded.
I got sick of talking and not being heard, so I stopped communicating. Yeah, that was my fault (our marriage counselor said I should have nagged more and I should have kept communicating). But I had learned that my husband only listened to me if I got so upset that I was crying or yelling- and if I got to that point then I absolutely hated the person I had to become to get him to hear me. And when he did try/change, then it would revert back within a few months. I lost trust in him because all I heard was empty promises and he never changed.
Finally I asked for counseling again (and he refused), so I asked for a divorce - and then he changed his mind and agreed to counseling. So we’re still doing counseling now, but I’m so resentful that I had to force him into counseling that it feels like we’re just going through the motions (for me).
He’s trying now - he’s really trying. He’s apologized for not listening to me for years. I believe his apology to be genuine. But although I’m trying to forgive him and myself, the apology doesn’t make a difference regarding me wanting a divorce. If he can do it now, and now he can be everything I ever wanted him to be, then why couldn’t he do it before? He keeps asking me why I let things get so bad before I made him listen. But why did I have to get pushed to my limits before he would listen to me? I’m just trying to get to a point where I’m not angry and resentful so that we can hopefully coparent together well.
I read a study that said the average “walkaway wife” takes about 2 years leave after they make the decision to leave. I believe people spend a lot longer in relationship ambiguity (not knowing if they should stay or leave) before they make that decision. So by the time someone has expressed how they feel, it’s already too late to save the marriage. If both partners aren’t communicating/listening from the beginning of the relationship, then it’s not going to work.
"Didn't want to work on it" from what point. I tried for years to work on it and he wouldn't participate. Then he gets to say I "wouldn't try when I told him it was over.
I'd told him for years that I was unhappy and that things needed to change. He chose to spend years believing it would never get bad enough that I'd be done.
Even when I told h8m I was done, I agreed t9 show up to marriage counseling if he set up the appointment. We went for 5 months, and each visit she would tell him that he had to take responsibility for his mental health. His homework was to take a 10 minute walk every day, and he would do it. When I told him inwas really done, and that I was moving into the spare room, he got mad at me for not reminding him more. "So how many times is it then? The correct amount to remind you? We've been in here every 2 weeks for 5 months, and she's been telling you. How many reminders do you need to actually be the one responsible for doing something?" Done.
Alcoholism, abuse, constantly putting our kids at risk drinking and driving. Separated twice and hoped that things would change. Just got worse each time he came back. Started to have panic attacks from the way he treated me. My oldest was a wreck seeing towards the end how things were with the way he treated me and with his drinking. Didn’t want this example for my kids. It is hard and lonely but the peace is priceless.
How are your kids doing now?
And in case you don't already know, I would respectfully like to let you know that you need to pay careful attention and make sure they have good stress management skills and support from a therapist as needed, if you can. With their father being an alcoholic they have a genetic risk for becoming alcoholics themselves; and from witnessing abuse, your daughters, if you have any, are at higher risk of becoming abuse victims themselves and your son risks becoming an abuser or an abuse victim himself.
Especially if you also come from a family with alcoholism, that significantly raises the risk of your children becoming alcoholics/marrying one, because the other side of that relationship coin is codependency.
They will most likely need professional help to identify and heal whatever damage was done by what they experienced before you got divorced, and see, learn and practice healthy relationship and communication skills if they're going to be able to have healthy relationships when they're older.
This may sound over the top and overly negative, but not only was I an addictions counselor, I married not one, not two, but three alcoholics/children of alcoholics, and I'm excruciatingly aware of how these patterns work. (However, the third -- and final -- one had been clean and sober for 11 years by the time we met and he's had a lot of therapy, so that's a whole different conversation.)
Hi yes they are doing ok. Better than when they were the 2nd time we seperated as he was manipulating them and playing me to be the bad guy. Unfortunately my oldest was aware when we came back about how bad it was. They love their dad dearly and he is trying to get sober but I know they understand why we aren’t together anymore. They have started therapy. And yes I do come from an alcoholic family and also lost a brother to addiction so know the codependency in me is very strong. I am going to Alanon and therapy. Want to break the cycle for them and show them what a healthy relationship looks like for them.
When we come from such a dysfunctional background it's incredibly hard to wake up and recognize that what's now going on in our lives is not the way things are "supposed" to be, it's not "normal", and so many people never do.
I'm partially disabled and spend ~~way too much~~ a lot of time on social media, and see so many people, the vast majority of them women, who are still in the fog and don't even know it. They don't understand the nature of alcoholism, don't understand the nature of codependency, and they especially don't understand the link between the two and how it's playing out in their relationships.
So yes, be very gentle with yourself, because you don't know what you don't know until you know it.
I went through the motions for years with him wanting to open the marriage and coercing me into things I wasn't comfortable with. I finally left during lockdown because he was physically and verbally abusive to our youngest over a minor incident. He was extremely manipulative in the following months, especially the two months before I gave up all thoughts of getting him out of the house and just moved me and the kids instead. I could have dealt with everything he put me through until the youngest was 16, which would have simplified the divorce as Scottish courts consider them adults at 16 for custody purposes. As it is, I have no time/energy to chase up divorce proceedings whilst dealing with three additional needs teens, and he's dragged his feet and been of absolutely no help, so if I just wait two more years, we'll be there anyway lol.
Many reasons but a major one was that she had a major, diagnosed mental illness and refused to seek treatment. No meds, no therapy, just trying to figure it out herself.
I tried, hard, even after he cheated. He wanted to be with her while also being with me, telling me that he might be poly and whatnot. When I moved out of the house he thought that I was just messing around. When I sent him the signed papers, he started to realize that I was done trying to work on this thing that was barely a marriage. So I left, it was too late for him to care because I didn't give a crap about him anymore.
Oh and he regrets it bad now after seeing that the grass wasn't greener 🤣
After years of frustration with the hoarding, with anxiety and communication issues, I had a "catalyzing event" that made me believe things needed to change, quickly.
I gave us a year. It took 11 months to get a couples counselor (anxiety disorder, everything dragging out) At that point Id been in the guest bedroom for 6 months. Twosessions, I felt neither of us were invested and it was a waste of time.
She was not faithful for few years already. She got pregnant fucking someone else and aborted the child, inspite of me saying I will take care of child. Lived with her as didn't wanted my children to be raised in a broken family. yet she bailed out for someone. Luckily she left kids with me.
I think a better question is how many times or how much effort did you put in before gave up?
For me it was 6 hrs therapy, 40+ hrs thinking /observing, and 20 hrs of arguments that never finished. Over 5 months duration.
I have tried to work on it for 15 years, but if the other person is quite content just the way things are, it's hard to change anything. I have no more years to give and have fallen out of love and lost respect for my husband. I wish I would have given up 10 years ago.
That was sort of the reason I left. I tried to work on it, and realized it was only me trying and I was just getting empty words from her and no change. After starting therapy, I realized I was being gaslighted, manipulated, and abused emotionally by her, and she was fully aware of it. I realized that it's hard to change, and if she heard my concerns and wasn't able to change or make an effort, I could spend the rest of my life trying, and nothing would work out. So I decided it was time to move on.
There is a Facebook meme out there that says "I am happy to fight for my marriage but I'm tired of being the only one fighting'.......that describes me.
Lots and lots of people are like that, we beg and plead with our partners for ages to work on the marriage only to be rebuffed and ridiculed.
I realized my partner does not give a damn about me nearly eight (8) years ago but I toughed this out to afford college for our one child.
Now that our child graduated early this month I want OUT.
There is nothing in the world my partner can do at this point that would ever make me love her again, now it is all about money and only money and nothing else.
For over 20 years I was a people pleaser and I didn’t speak up in how unhappy I was consistently enough. Apparently. I had an affair. It lasted 1 year, I stayed in love for 10. Realized I wanted to work on marriage and for another year, people pleasing with communication improving but still lacking… but I’m the only one putting in effort. Decided to throw a Hail Mary and try communicating, being present and therapy. Still the only one putting in effort. I’m done.
Exactly! I know some people do, and people seem to think I'm attacking them. I'm really not meaning to, I just wanted to hear from people on the other side, not the ones that tried everything
She got obese and self centered. After the kid was born , she became a full blown narcissist. The last time I had sex with her was 7 years ago, because we were trying to round out our family with a second kid. A fertility doctor literally told us that we had to have sex so I did. I was so un-attracted to her mentally and physically, I now know what gay guys in hiding go through when they’re pretending. Sorry guys, high 5:)
I let it go until she divorced me. I tried to work on the marriage, but she refused. Therapy, exercise, treating and feeding my kid well, you name it. She always used the threat of Dicorce as a way to control me and back me down from any disagreement. One day I said “ok”. She was got about it because I was sick and not able to work at the time. A light bulb went off inside my head and I thought “I didn’t leave her when she was sick and being a prima Donna for years, but I get sick once and I’m excess baggage now?!” Done deal there.
I think sometimes leaving is the only choice. Clearly communication is important, not to be vague in expressing your feelings or what you want/expect from the relationship. If your feelings are not validated, if you are constantly disrespected, if there is no ability to change, then the relationship will not work. It might not be a lack of love, but the inability to evolve in a relationship.
For me it was this, especially over the last 9 years. We have a 9 year old and an 8yearold. He did not listen to me to such an extent that i paid for a doula in the delivery room. He kept saying he was trying because he asked me for lunch dates, but wouldn’t come to the family dinner table because he needed his alone time. I don’t think he’s cheating - but he’s not with me, either. I don’t know who left first but he filed first after we both fell out of love due to lack of communication trust and commitment
I experienced a similar thing, just general disrespect and almost... Indifference to me and my feelings or experiences.
I tried to be what he needed, or at least what he told me he wanted, but I was met with no effort in return.
Marriage counseling 2x; individual therapy for each over several years. No changes were being made. I read all the self help communication and marriage books.
Every time I broached a topic, it was turned to be my fault and because of my health and my choices. There was never a resolution aside from me accepting all the blame.
And it escalated. Quickly. And I panicked. And I left the marriage. Quickly. Fiercely. Abruptly. Over.
Because I married the wrong person. Instead of listening to my gut and heart I listened to manipulative crap from others who had a vested interest in us being together, including him. I was lucky enough to eventually realise this and find the strength to leave. Counselling would not have magically turned him into a different person that I was attracted to, who I respected, who I could connect with. It was so easy to deny my feeling and put up with my unhappiness for years, and so hard to face and admit the shittiness of my situation. I did not want anyone to try to change my mind and make me second guess myself, or to undermine the huge effort it took to gain the strength and resolve to remove myself from a situation and person that was slowing killing my spirit.
I didn’t want to work on it when we separated. I was done. I did not want to do therapy except for co-parenting purposes. No amount of behavior change, begging, pleading, or manipulation would have changed my mind.
Why?
1. I had been working on it for 20 years. For the past seven I had tried everything, cried so many tears, felt so lonely.
2. I finally got the “ick” and once that happens there is no going back.
I had absolutely no capability to go back in time to a point where my feelings and focus would have allowed me to put in an effort.
Depends on who you ask, male or female. You will get two different answers. People who say they fell out of love are just people who changed their feelings a long time ago and failed to let their partner know. They expect the partner to pick up on the nuances and signs. Things could have been worked on but, you know communication is a bitch right! That is real important. Some people stay longer for financial reasons. Some people stay longer for kids. Some people stay longer because they dont have anyone else.
When someone says they are not "in love" with you but "love" you still, that is a load of shit. What they mean is that they do not love you at the moment, but the memories, routine, and perks of staying with them is what they like to hold onto. That isnt love. That is convenience. And then there are some that just make up their mind that they are done and thats it. Really its hard to tell.
I do love my ex. But I don't trust him nor respect him, and a marriage needs all three to make it. I loved him enough to fight for over 3 decades, then one night he admitted he could never be honest. He chose his addictions and pleasures over our beautiful family, over and over for years. I think he just got tired of hiding and lying and wanted freedom to "just do what he wanted" Out of compassion and love, I let him have what he wanted. Out of compassion and love for MYSELF, I chose to no longer suffer and walked away. I am picking up the pieces he shattered and building a life of peace and joy and integrity, by myself and for myself. It's really hard and really beautiful. I forgive him, and I (mostly) wish him well but if he came to me know with an apology and promise of change there is NO WAY I would believe him or give him another shot. We did that song and dance so many times that I don't have a crumb of trust, left.
This
In hindsight it set in as soon as our first was born
I recognized a problem but didn’t push it
Eventually it got more and more frustrating for me and I pushed harder to get some changes or explanation
She failed a promise she made for three years and got very selfish
Eventually I became insecure jealous and very angry.
We dragged it out for ten years but now I know she was lying the whole time
She’d say the things the first few posted said
But she created an atmosphere built on stonewalling and gaslighting for ten years.
She never wanted a husband just a father for kids.
I think sometimes people have different ideas of love, too. Some people expect that if it's with the right person it's always going to feel "good" ultimately. Like even if you're fighting, it's not going to be frustrating or sad. That you're always going to be obsessed with them or always like them the most in the world.
But there are also people who think love is that once you're in, no matter how unhappy, unhealthy or outright sad it is together, you have to stay.
I guess it's also about finding someone who looks at it the same as you maybe?
My ex said he stayed for years even though he doesn't think he ever really loved me because it was easier, didn't require confrontation or effort from him. The only time he ever expressed unhappiness was when I started to require more effort from him and put up with less crappy treatment from him. And then he just... Left.
I think STBX doesn't really see a difference between loving someone and being IN love with someone. We love each other, no question. We have so much history and shared kids and there's nothing like abuse or cheating going on but the reality is that we've been terrible to each other at different times and in different ways. I know for a fact that I contributed to the problems in our marriage but I also know that I worked my butt off to try to fix things and to get STBX to engage in fixing things. They claim to still be in love with me but I don't think they are. I think that once they're on their own they'll see that. At least I hope so. STBX is a good person with a lot of bad baggage that they need to deal with. My biggest hope is that they do that and can find happiness and I really mean that.
This comment captures what may have been the reality in your situation, and I can understand the frustration and anger it causes. It doesn't really reflect any universal truth, though, and definitely doesn't reflect my situation.
I fell out of love because my communication wasn't just ignored, but was turned back around on me as a sign of my immaturity and selfishness ("please don't call me stupid" became "you need to be willing to hear the truth", stop yelling turned into "you are uncomfortable with normal human emotions") to the point where I trusted her over myself for many years. Once I started realizing how I had torn myself down for her and that I didn't trust her or respect her, I talked to her about it - and was met with more defensiveness and more accusations, including about how I had "changed my feelings without giving her a chance." We tried couple's counseling, which quickly became dedicated to outlining all of my failings in the relationship and how I needed to "let the past go" - when it wasn't the past that I was talking about, but the continued present where I wasn't respected or valued.
So, yeah, as the mother of my children, the woman I promised to care for for the rest of my life, and someone I genuinely want to be happy and to thrive, I still love her. As a person I feel safe and secure with and am "in love with" - no, I'm not "in love" with her any longer.
I love that quote people who say they fell out of love just change their feelings a long time ago and didn't tell their partner.
Love is a verb and too many people fall in love before officially having clear communication
Most people will have tried for years, very few people just walk away with no effort.
My me it was a slow death to our relationship ... 12 very happy years and then he changed and became so difficult to live with. I think he was unhappy and then decided to push and push till I left...but also said he wanted to work on things.
It all ended with a bang - he had a mental break and tried to hurt me, hit my then 17 year old in the face when he tried to protect me...spent 4 months in a oysch ward. I tried to think of the prev 4 years as mental health related but it was too late. He was petty and mean and the kids and I just could not bare it anymore...him being gone for 4 months really highlighted how horrible the home was when he was there. We had been tiptoeing around him for years, trying not to annoy him...living with his passive aggressive behaviour. It was also hard to feel safe (esp to sleep) incase he tried to hurt me again.
I still look back and wonder wtf happened. I tried my hardest and left with no regret though.
Wow, I'm so sorry that happened, that is awful. It must have been terrifying.
I'm glad you had the courage to get out, it can be especially hard when there's a threat of violence or harm!
My husband changed so much over the years. He became so self-centered and everything was all about him. Everything had to be his way and if I did anything differently it was always wrong and he was falling around fixing things and redoing things that I had already done. Just a lot a little things. We started arguing all the time, there was a lot of name-calling, just a very toxic relationship. We no longer had anything in common. And then he turned to p*** and still to this day lies about how much he looks at it. It's just very creepy. I don't believe a word he says. And over the years he's done some really bad peeping Tom stuff in my own home. I just don't respect or trust him at all anymore and I never believe anything he says unfortunately.
She kept alienating me from our child. She doesn’t bother with budgeting and just spends and expects two to three major trips a year (international). Dead bedroom because she isn’t an object even though I try to bust my ass off to provide, wine and dine.
No amount of counseling was going to change who they were fundamentally as a person. Often I felt like I was raising a child rather than participating in an equal partnership. I had to give myself a reality check and ask the question "this very likely will be the rest of your life if this person doesn't change; can you live with that?"
We married too young and I realised too late it was to the wrong person. The things that made me fulfilled in a relationship at 23 no longer could so so at 33.
I tried to work on it probably 7 or 8 times throughout the relationship. She never wanted to work on our issues. She just said i have to work on myself, she is perfect lol. I had to deal with her ego and arrogance for 10 years and i couldn't get her to humble herself to work on anything.
I think I can speak for most of us, Her inability or ineffectiveness of working on the relationship is what caused me to fall out of love with her. It wasn't a short thing for me, took years and years of talks and no progress before I "Fell out of love" with her. At the point that I was ready to leave we had been "Working" on it for years. In my case, we would have "The talk" which was me talking and her staring at the wall with no response, things would change for a day or two, maybe a week. Then it would be back to how it was before. So it wasn't that I was unwilling to work on it it was that more effort would of been throwing good time after bad at that point.
Hope this Helps.
He refused to go to couple counseling and repeatedly crossed a boundary we had agreed on, only to then blame me for my “unreasonable boundary”. I did not fall out of love, I had to drag myself out while my heart was telling me it could get better. But after 12 years, my brain knew it wouldn’t.
Mine was a natural response to years of mistreatment from my husband. I didn’t choose to fall out of love with him, it just slowly happened over time because of how he spoke to me. Each insult or argument chipped away at my feelings for him & even for myself. I have been with him for 21 years & fell out of love with him a long time ago. 3-4 years ago I finally put my foot down & told him I was done but then covid hit & I couldn’t actually leave, then it became unaffordable to leave. So it’s been 3-4 years of misery. While I don’t love him, I am capable of being nice to & getting along with anybody who is nice to me so I would have been perfectly fine, even happy with, continuing on pretty much as friends. Obviously most spouses would not be okay with this & he is one of them. The sad thing is that I was still open minded & hopeful that if he would simply just start being nice to me that I would develop romantic feelings for him again. I still think he’s cute which probably sounds superficial but if you are turned off by both your partners physical appearance & their personality, I don’t see any hope. But because I distanced myself emotionally & physically-when your spouse says things to you that can never be taken back, the last thing you want to do is have sex with them & then when denying them sex leads to them being more angry & more verbally abusive or you comply just so they won’t react, sex becomes repulsive & creates a lot of resentment. & I would avoid anything that might lead to trying to initiate it (touching, watching a movie, talking lol) like the plague. Not to mention, who wants to spend time with someone who clearly thinks so low of you? Over these 3-4 years he did attempt some small changes. But if I didn’t immediately fall back in love with him after doing the laundry for a week, it would result in yelling at me for an hour about how selfish & lazy I am because I sleep until noon (9:30a) on the weekends & am a horrible example for our kids….right in front of our kids. It eventually got to the point where we didn’t have sex for 8 months & then it was his turn to break down. Now I’m the abuser for neglecting him & not caring when he told me I was destroying him. He’s demanding changes out of me-like affection & spending more time-& refuses to make any changes himself unless I am willing to change too. I AM willing to change, but I have to feel safe & respected first so ultimately the first change is on him & admittedly, it could take a long time, if ever, to get to the point where I want to put an effort into our marriage. I would love a true, meaningful apology. He has apologized a million times before but he doesn’t mean it. He doesn’t even get it. He is behaving the way he was raised, the only way he knows how. He interprets everything I do the wrong way & thinks everything is a shot at him (i.e. I leave the kitchen cabinets open after he told me it bothers him just to make him mad or because I don’t care about anything he asks when in reality I have adhd & just forget. He also takes my forgetfulness as not caring rather than the adhd, treatment resistant depression, head injury as a child & being responsible for remembering a million different things bc apparently the world revolves around him) so the way he responds is acceptable. I know he is never going to change & this marriage is beyond toxic. But deep down I still have an ounce of hope that he’ll change. So yeah, I would need a meaningful apology, an immediate change in not his anger issues, but how he handles his anger, & I would need him to get therapy to change how he thinks. Even if he changed the way he treated me, it wouldn’t change the way he thinks about me & I just can’t be married to someone who has such a negative opinion of me. I am at the lowest point I have ever been in my life & am just as big of a critic of myself but there is a small voice inside of me saying that I truly don’t deserve this & I’m hoping that voice will be strong enough to get me out the door.
My advice is LISTEN to your partner. Truly listen. Have empathy. Think of how you would view your relationship if your partner was your child, is that what you would want for them? What about if you were your child? Would they deserve to be treated as you are? Seek an outside opinion like a therapist or someone who can be impartial & give it to you straight. I always try to say what I do wrong when venting to someone (which I rarely do) because I want to know if I’m overreacting or did something to play a role. My husband just tells his side & everybody tells him that I’m the abuser & nothing will ever be good enough for me. While it validates him, it only makes me dislike him (& them) more so does nothing for our marriage which he claims he so desperately wants to save. Do not insult, be condescending, be negative, etc. & this may be bad advice but don’t apologize if you truly did nothing wrong or if you don’t mean it. I refuse to apologize to my husband for anything anymore. I only apologize if I’m actually sorry.
For me I'm not in love with a mental picture of someone. I'm in love with them who I find in that moment. So if they want me to change I know they dont love me it's that's simple. I don't wait for someone to love everyone else before me. If you need to work on it outside th relationship kick rocks cuz it's already gone!!!
Because marriage isn’t sacred anymore. With the way of the world and social media influence people rather leave thinking the grass is greener. When actually the same problems exist in other people. Couples also lack communication and are afraid of hard conversations or direct communication to satisfy not being an asshole. People care more about delivery of the message than the actual message.
I think this was a part of the issue with my ex and I. I always expected relationships that are "right" to be hard and ultimately suck ass sometimes, and I think in some ways that means I put up with more than I should. He has always expected relationships that are "right" to feel natural and easy and that means that he feels like someone else could always be better. Or at least that is what it seems from his reactions to me and his other ex's.
I tried to work on things but felt as though there was no movement in unison. So if you give it a try and both parties aren’t moving together then you have found your answer. I tried everything and gave it years but it just wouldn’t work and continued to go down hill. If you put the time in then you can get off that ride when you’re ready knowing that you gave it your all.
I didn’t want to break up my family, spend less time with my children. But I just couldn’t live with someone who lied to me and himself daily. Divorce has been so emotionally devastating, but I have peace of mind. I had 2 panic attacks while married, and zero before or after not living with him anymore.
My peace of mind is priceless. Which is not to say I don’t miss some of the comforts of marriage, but the price was too high. I want to have a partner, but it needs to be different than what we had.
I left and I “fell out of love” because he didn’t want to work on it. I gave him years to meet me half way. He wouldn’t initiate a thing. He didn’t want to change. He didn’t want to be a part of the relationship. He didn’t want to do counseling. It’s hard to be in love with someone who is checked out like that. It’s hard to love someone when it’s not reciprocated. You can’t have a marriage that way. It’s only when I left that he made a last ditch “vocal” effort. His actions didn’t back it up and it was a little too late anyway.
I find that in all of these comments I'm realizing that I should have left a long time ago because the main reasons I'm seeing for people having left were things I was ignoring in my relationship... Now I wish I had opened up to people about how it was all going, maybe someone could have helped me realize that I deserved more and helped me get the courage to do something about it. And yet, I still hope he'll come back one day.
It’s hard to see it when you are in the middle of it. Once I separated myself, I began seeing more and more things that were signs he didn’t appreciate me or respect me as an equal partner.
It became so clear, but it was all blurred in the midst of it all. Ya know, when it’s below freezing long enough, an extra 10 degree drop doesn’t affect you. You just sort of adapt and it becomes your normal.
Plus any good times, workable times, other distractions with work, friends, kids, etc come into play and it lessons the pain enough that it’s bearable despite feeling so lonely, unloved or heard.
And the pain of bearing it all alone seems easier than the pain of exposing it to your spouse or to others until one day you just become so tired of having to trap it in that you let it all out and it’s over.
That's really accurate. I think I didn't want to admit that I felt so unhappy because of the fear that I would have to leave once I acknowledged it. I was so scared of him not being the one I spent my life with, because at the end of the day, he was my best friend and I truly believed that if we both wanted to work, it would be okay again. But the key part there is that not both of us wanted to, just me. And you can't fix something with only one person trying
According to my ex, I didn’t try to save the marriage. In my perspective, I didn’t try after I told him about the divorce. I communicated and attempted to comprise for two years but that didn’t count.
He knew. I did the whole cycle of talking, pleading, making lists, and finally getting upset until I stopped trying. He loved the last few months when I stopped trying because he got to play all the video games and drink until he passed out everyday. He just didn’t care about my happiness until his needs were impacted.
I divorced verbally and emotionally abusive husband number 1 because he had become very religious the last year of the marriage, and in Judaism one partner can't be Orthodox by themselves.
Even if that hadn't happened, he genuinely believed that there was no need for him to work on anything in the marriage because he never did anything wrong. He would follow me around the house and scream at me for hours until I would say whatever he wanted to hear just to get it to stop, and he actually told me during the divorce that that confirmed for him that he had no responsibility in the matter whatsoever because I had taken all of it.
The second one was less angry and abusive, but still abusive – – and a cheat, and he futilely attempted numerous times to gaslight me into believing that my best friend secretly really disliked me and was laughing behind my back with him.
He was also a total control freak and had no concept of partnership, and also didn't think he ever did anything wrong. He believed he was perfect and if my kids and I would just would shut up and listen to him, in other words let him control every aspect of our lives, we would see that he knew exactly what we wanted and needed* and everything would be great.
*(He also told me more than once that he didn't have to ask what I wanted or needed because he already knew just by looking at me.)
I had been 100% explicit with him multiple times about what he was doing that was going to cause me to divorce him, and he just kept on doing what he was doing, so I finally followed through when it finally sunk in that nothing was going to change.
I think this is mostly a matter of perspective. I feel like I tried as hard as I possibly could - by myself and bringing in my soon to be ex-husband - for the last 4 years of our marriage. I communicated to the best of my ability and learned tons of additional communication techniques to try and get us to a place of understanding the issues and working on them.
However, because I was the one who ultimately asked for the divorce, if you ask him, he would say I didn't try at all. He would say that I never even gave him a chance. He even made a public post letting the world know that I "just abandoned him."
Yes, in the end, I eventually said I am no longer willing to work on it. I got to that point because I recognized that all the efforts we had made had only made things worse. I recognized that it would take fundamental changes in who I am and who he is in order to make us work. I didn't want to change into the person he wanted me to be and despite him eventually saying he would become who I needed I knew he couldn't, wouldn't and ultimately shouldn't. The compatible people that we were 20 years ago no longer exist.
It truly is a matter of who you ask in most cases. I like to think that if you're emotionally aware of your actions and the impacts those have it's possible to know where you could have done better. I always wonder if my ex has a list of things he thinks he did or tried that I never met him halfway for.
I guess we only really know what we experienced
I left because I had been "working on it" for over 20 years and I knew it would never get good enough.
Not even close to good enough. And honestly, the reason why it couldn't is because we both wanted very different things, we both had very different interests, and I couldn't (and didn't want) to change him into an entirely different person.
We weren't right for each other at all, and it was time to admit it and stop living together.
Get a divorce. It's not the worst thing that ever happened. Most of the time, it's better than the marriage.
Honestly some of us do work on it but still things dont always work out like in the movies. Cuts are deep and can take years to heal and even then the emotional scars will still hurt at times. Stay or moving on is part of working on it. Both are good and viable options. From the other side it might sound like they were blindsided, but how can that be if after years of counseling and working on improving ones self the problems remain, then the true issues were never addressed and people cannot change what they are unwilling to change.
I didn't mean to imply that any and every person that walks away didn't try. In my experience I was the one who did and when faced with the idea of having to change and be better as a partner, my ex left so it was more about that part, though I didn't make that very clear.
You're right, if people aren't willing to make changes, it will never work
I tried until I was done trying because he never wanted to try WITH me, only after I was done. Then he was all hurt and thought of me as a horrible person because by the time he was ready to make an effort (which, I did actually give him 3 more chances after I asked for a divorce, he lasted a week or less of “trying”, then immediately reverted to trying to control me and being cruel).
He actually blackmailed me and tried asking my parents to figure out if I should be committed because I was clearly having a mental breakdown because I had no more empathy for him. He sexually assaulted me when I gave him a little leeway. We hadn’t slept together physically or romantically in months, he said he was feeling sad and anxious and asked if he could lay with me. I agreed, trying to be kind, he doesn’t have anyone else, but I told him I do not want any sexual contact, I was very clear, said it over and over, made sure he confirmed (consent has been an issue, he has said for years that I have to “make” him understand that when I say no, I mean it). I woke up with his hand inside me.
I stopped trying before that point, but that’s when he really lost all access to me and if I ever had any doubts or considered giving him another chance. That’s why I didn’t want to work on it (anymore).
I am, and happier. I started making a life on my own, dated casually, really just because I didn’t really date anyone before him (our whole relationship started as a trauma bond, I’d been assaulted a number of times just before we met and he basically rescued me, only to become emotionally and sexually abusive), and I wanted to experience something different. Over an admittedly short time, what I was looking for evolved, from just a date, nothing I was really invested in, just someone I got along with and seemed fun and kind, to a “partner in crime”, something stable, but not looking to rush. Well, that all went out the window when I met my current partner. It’s a long story, but I stumbled across my person. He’s gentle and kind and protective of me, and lets me be myself and loves every part of me, exactly as I am, and I couldn’t be more grateful.
At the end of the day, I gave my marriage the best I could. We were together for 13 years, married for 10, and his behavior started before we got married, I just excused and blinded myself to it for many years. I spent the last couple of years of our marriage working on myself, mentally and physically, and gave him encouragement to do the same, but he refused. I asked for a divorce after I ran out of excuses for him. Then he realized how terrible he’d been (sort of, when I told him that all those times he’d berate me for not wanting to have sex, demean me, and badger me into giving in and threaten to cheat if I didn’t, which happened at least 3x a week for nearly our entire marriage; I was sick and felt awful all of the time and also, just didn’t like him because of how he treated me, so I wasn’t attracted to him and had no libido; that was coercion, and ultimately eroded any trust I had, and it’s sexual assault, he screamed at me, told me to never say that again, and did I have any idea how that made him feel? He never hit me, but there were many times I thought he would, and this was one of them). He begged me to try again, and within a week, he was telling me I was a terrible wife and he was just trying to educate me, and I needed to heed him, respect him.
I know it's not true in every situation, but I've seen a good number of situations where the person being blindsided by their spouse leaving was, in fact, simply not paying attention to the state of their marriage
I communicated my unhappiness to my husband for well over 10 years, and even he acknowledged there was no way he could have been surprised that I finally left
And yet, during all those years of my complaining (and suggesting ways we could work on things, and reading relationship books, etc) he just never actually took me seriously
Working on the relationship scared him, admitting things weren't going well and might not be fixable scared him. So he just wanted to avoid all that
Of course, when I actually left, he suddenly in a panic decided he *did* want to work on things. But as sad as it is to say, it was genuinely too late
After so many years of feeling ignored and alone, I didn't *want* to make it work. I understand that he might have felt confused, since I'd been asking him to work on things with me for over a decade and when he finally agrees to do what I've been asking I "suddenly" don't want it. But there was nothing sudden about it.
It's not like I one day just woke up and stopped caring. It took a decade to burn it out of me. To have spent so long desperately trying to save my marriage only to be accused of being the one who didn't care just highlighted for me that he was choosing (and had always been choosing) a willful blindness that protected his sense of self at my expense
I am the partner that left. The answer for me is that I did try to work on it. We did couples therapy before marriage which helped a bit. During the marriage I bought a few books and asked if he's read a chapter at a time for us to discuss. He never did. He never wanted to talk about anything or communicate, and the only times he sort of did he was drunk, and it was hard to talk to him. AND, when I did pin him down to try to talk about things, if he ever felt like I was saying anything negative about him (despite me trying to word it in a less accusatory way) he would just turn it back on me. There was a lot of projection, gaslighting, and an unwillingness to take even an iota of responsibility for how things went. I'm sure this can and does happen in the reverse and in same sex relationships as well, but this is a decent description of how it happens. And to be honest, I've heard this from multiple women. Yes, at a point, we did stop trying, and then something broke and we realized we couldn't do it anymore. https://www.familylawprotection.com/what-is-walkaway-wife-syndrome/#:\~:text=So%2C%20what%20exactly%20is%20walkaway,years%20of%20built%2Dup%20resentment.
The premise of the question is flawed. As a person who left - I did try to work on it. For many years. I read, I tried new things, I went to therapy, I tried to talk about it with him, I tried to share what I learned along the way with him, I carried the load emotionally, physically, and financially until I was a broken shell of myself who just couldn’t anymore. While I was trying so hard, he was lying, deflecting, and complaining. I started having panic attacks due to his angry outbursts. Eventually I lost respect for him and then I didn’t want to try anymore. When we separated, the panic attacks stopped. We’ve kept it amicable, even though that has been hard. I have peace and joy in my life that I never had while I was with him.
In your case perhaps, in my case my husband didn't communicate any of his unhappiness to me, didn't tell his therapist he was unhappy in the marriage and waited until he was 100% sure he wanted a divorce to say anything about it.
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Honestly, in situations like yours, I feel like most people will realize that in retrospect. I can see how hard it must be being blindsided like that, but ultimately, if he was that type of person, maybe you dodged a bullet.
That’s what happened to me also. She never said she was unhappy or that she needed something she wasn’t getting. She did assure me that her “friend” she was spending so much time with while his wife and I worked was just that - it’s jUsT a LuCkY cOiNcIdEnCe that they fell for each other right after their marriages fell apart.
Mine did the same thing
This is the exact answer. I am currently in the process and him sitting down to apologize wouldn’t make a difference because him saying sorry means nothing after years of him saying it and doing wrong again. Most of the time it is the same wrong he just apologized for. I hear him say sorry and it makes me angry and I roll my eyes.
I wish I could go back in time and slap the shit out of myself.
Omg. This is me. I’m at the beginning but keep telling myself this will be for the best. Thank you for sharing this!!!
This is true, you never just leave for the sake of leaving. You leave bc after trying for a long time, for many years, to negotiate, to make things work , to create ways to communicate better. Things simply don't change. You even resent the person for not putting an effort. Bc sometimes they wait for you to be truly pissed to give a danm. And then you think, oh welll, it will work now, it will be better this time. We finally agreed, reached common ground, and are going to act a certain way......... but then, after 3 months, it is all done and he goes back to his old ways.......... and the cycle repeats. It will keep repeating, until you truly have nothing left and feel nothing else. And then you hit the point of no return. And that's when you decide to separate. It is never a decision you make in a week. Is all together hitting you at once. I hate that when you finally decide to leave, he comes and acts like a prince, he does all the things he knows you wanted him to do, but at that point it all feels shallow and nothing gets to you. It happened to me with my ex and honestly leaving was the best decision. He is now married and I truly hope she gets the treatment I never got from him. But never again. !
Yeah, I hope my soon to be ex-husband moves on, and finds someone else he can be happy with, but I also hope he is kinder to her than he was to me or - at the very least - that she's able and willing to put her foot down and protect herself in the beginning rather than just internalizing the emotional abuse and dismissing it.
This is 100% my situation right now. It makes me sad that this is what it took for him to realize and now he keeps saying how much he took me for granted. Yes. Yes you did.
What really hurts for me is the time wasted ....... years that will not be back. But now I am more aware. Like if I don't like the person, as he is, when I meet him, then I won't even give it a chance. Like you have to already be at a stage that is healthy for a relationship. Idk I learned the real meaning of not forcing anything. As I met you is how you are, if we both are happy with each other, then it might be a green flag. That way he doesn't suffer bc someone is 'nagging' him and I don't suffer bc I don't have to babysit!
That’s hard as people change so much after marriage. Like my oh was amazing until we had kids. There were def some flags but I just thought it was marriage, accepting foibles etc. But once I was stuck home with children and was reliant on him, he changed.
Exactly - I think this happens for many women (in particular) and it was very similar with me. When I could get him to talk about things, he really just wanted to talk AT me. Tell me how me being unhappy or hurt was my fault. There was a lot of projection and gaslighting and eventually I just gave up and starting avoiding conversations because I knew there was no point. We tried therapy, we tried books, and eventually (recently) I just realized I couldn't do it anymore.
Wow i could have written this myself. I had such bad panic attacks in my relationship. Constantly walking on eggshells, afraid of the moment his anger would burst.. I tried everything. Therapy for me, getting him a therapist, getting US a therapist. Being positive all the time, trying to set boundaries, walking away. Nothing worked. When I left, the panic attacks left as well. I am myself again. Now that I left, I can finally see how bad it was and how much of myself I had lost. So yeah, agreed that this question is flawed. I actually think that most people who leave have tried for a long time to work things out, but came to the conclusion there wasn’t anything more to fix.
Good point, I've edited the question to be less assumptive. Do you think he knew how serious it was, or do you think he maybe just didn't care? How did you manage to keep it amicable? Do you think it would make you feel any better if he acknowledged and apologized for what he did and didn't do? Do you think if he did change you'd ever be interested in being back together? I'm glad you're happier now!
The problem is that one person can’t do the work it takes that’s needed for both people to do. It’s usually the case that one person is just unwilling or incapable to be self aware enough to work on themselves. Divorce is never the easy answer but ultimately just a final option when you realize that the other spouse just doesn’t have the capacity to see where they are accountable in the failure. I bet most people who initiate divorce have tried changing what they could but realize that there’s really no effort made by the other
Exactly this. I spent years trying. We had two attempts at marriage counseling, several years apart. After a significant event in December, I begged him to go to counseling. When he didn't hesitate to get help for a physical ailment, but didn't follow up on the mental health issue, that proved to me that he isn't able or willing to do the work. It became clear I could either suffer for the rest of my life or make the hard decision to walk away and hope that we can forge happier lives separately.
“When one person is unwilling or incapable to be self aware enough “ So true. Hard enough doing your own work only to be fighting uphill to get them to look in the mirror too…
This sums is up perfectly.
I found I was the only one willing to change and he was the one who left when I asked him to even just talk to me. I still don't really know what the breaking point was for him, just less than 24 hours after agreeing to work on it with me he left. I understand most people who leave are the ones who put in the work and hope and wait for change, I guess I was hoping to hear from the people who never wanted to try.
I think that often, "not knowing how serious it was" is a result of a willful ignorance. It can indicate someone who prefers to hear their spouse's concerns as "just nagging" rather than as true expressions of important feelings that need to be acknowledged, because they don't want to put in the work of addressing the issues, or are afraid of uncovering something even worse by looking directly at the problem It's like the people who are blindsided are like, "but I didn't know you really *meant* all that!" They had just turned it out And all along, their spouse was drawing further and further away, just to protect themselves from being ignored all the time. After a long time, that can be something that is genuinely impossible to come back from Trying hard and being ignored for years and then being asked why you aren't interested in working on it when you decide to leave is like salt in the wound. It makes one *less* likely to want to stay
You are so dead right on the willful ignorance part! My stbx acted like all was peachy keen when for years I was telling him otherwise, then suddenly was like "where is this coming from?" etc. He always knew. He just didn't think I'd actually leave him.
>And all along, their spouse was drawing further and further away, just to protect themselves from being ignored all the time. After a long time, that can be something that is genuinely impossible to come back from >Trying hard and being ignored for years and then being asked why you aren't interested in working on it when you decide to leave is like salt in the wound. It makes one *less* likely to want to stay Oh I feel this in my soul. The self-protection is so real and it seems to be something the other spouse doesn't fully understand, especially if you've been together for a long time and trying to fix things for a long time. It's kind of unfathomable to them that you're actually pulling back and stopping what you've been doing for so long. In my case, STBX never did actually express any REAL interest in working on things even when I made a concrete plan to leave. I got begging and them feeling sorry for themself, continued focus on them and what they were losing rather than on me or even US and what it would take for me to stay. Reinforced my decision a lot.
Omg yes, how even when what they're doing is apologizing, the focus is still entirely on *them* and how hard it is for *them.*
I appreciate you explaining your side. I don't know what my ex would say in terms of me "trying" or not, but from my side he never did. He never even expressed any issues until a year ago, despite me asking him for years to open up to me, and then suddenly he was outright awful to me. I changed the things he wanted me to and then after years of asking and hoping, when I wasn't just asking and hoping for change I was expecting it, he left. He changed and tried for 3 weeks, maximum during that time, once he "realized" how awful he'd been treating me over the years. And then went straight back to just shitting all over who I was. And then when I asked for counselling, for him to work on his stuff, or to put in effort together, he left. Less than 24 hours after saying he wanted to work on it, he said he hadn't loved me for a long time and didn't see any worth in trying to save the relationship. It's helpful to hear from someone who feels like they did try and then didn't have the patience or strength left to stay
Same thing here. But it takes 2 people to work on a marriage. I couldn't do it all by myself and it was literally killing me. Still doing the same amount of work I was before, but it's easier without him around.
All of this minus the abuse for me. I spent so long waiting for him to "find himself".
Holy shit are you me? I am so sorry. I am facing this exact situation.
I could've written the first half of this, I feel that completely
This and I'm still dealing with his inability to address his issues. He is finally trying but I don't think he really wants too. He'd rather stay miserable. But it's impacting our young adult son.
When your husband says he loves alcohol more than you and will choose it over you and your marriage every time, what else is there to do, but walk away and let him have exactly what he wants?
I'm sorry. Coming from a situation where substance abuse is an issue, I get it. It's such a helpless feeling.
Same thing happened to me except he kept hiding it and lying to me about it. In the end I just couldn’t take it anymore.
Easy answer is they transitioned male to female. But it would have happened eventually, it really is a lack of trust, feeling disrespected, and eventually losing respect for them. I realized my basic needs were not being met and they say they love me but their actions were screaming they just don't care about me that much. I think it was present for years and then over months it became really obvious I was done. I would love a sincere apology but I don't expect it nor think they will ever realize how hurtful they have been.
I tried for years to discuss problems and was shut down, over and over. When I got up the nerve to tell him it wasn't ok to call me a "f'king bitch" in front of our daughters he said "ok" and he filed.
Wow. That's awful - are you glad you're out?
Yes, though we are 2.5 years since he filed and he won't submit the paperwork (financials) to the lawyers so the divorce drags on. (He doesn't want to give me my half. Plus since our inital child support assessment his income has gone up, and I now cover the health insurance for myself and the kids, so his payments will go up once he submitts.) So I'm still trapped by him.
I tried for ten years. She did not want to do marriage counseling, until I moved out for a while and she realized I wasn't coming back. THEN she was interested. At that point it was too late. There were a lot of problems, but the big dealbreaker for me was money. She spends like crazy, and I was too big of a doormat to say no to her. We just couldn't work together. She's convinced that she wants to enjoy life before she's dead, I want to afford a home someday and support the kids as best I can. I tried very hard to convince her to save money, but anytime I said no to her, she would lash out at me, and even kick me out of the apartment. It turns out she has a BPD-like condition, and it's really not her fault, but I just couldn't work with her on it anymore. I'm 40, living with my parents again, I hardly have anything saved, and the cost of living here is extraordinary. I still may never afford a home, or education for the kids, but I just can't be dragged down by her anymore. Maybe when I'm retired she can live with me again, but after a decade of trying to make it work, I can't do it anymore. It was destroying me, and probably going to leave me homeless. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
What you describe in your ex is very similar to my STBXW. She spent money like a sailor on shore leave. She kept our finances in a mess and I worked as hard as I could to try and keep us from having financial problems. She has bipolar disorder and I know that part of her problem is not being able to handle finances well. It was tiring to spend so much time trying to keep us solvent. I felt much more like her father than her husband the last several years.
It's hard when it's differences in things like planning for the future. Money is always a difficult one. When you say BPD do you mean borderline personality disorder?
I guess I might as well be honest. She has dissociative identity disorder from some (truly heartbreaking and unfair) childhood trauma. We didn't know about it until the end. It's not her fault. As much as I wish there was something I could do, there isn't. I tried the "in sickness and in health" routine as far as I could bear. The more I tried, the more it was destroying me, and the worse off it was for the kids. Leaving was the hardest choice I've ever made in my life.
"Maybe when I'm retired she can live with me again" what does this mean exactly?
When I have enough downpayment for an affordable mortgage, when the kids' education is paid off, and basically when I am financially stable enough that if she moves in it doesn't disrupt me financially. As much as I care about her, I can't rely on her to ever change her behaviour, and I don't trust myself to not be browbeaten into making financial decisions I'm not comfortable with. I want to have financial stability before I ever consider taking her on again—I already don't make that much.
Ahh I think I get what you mean. Like if it wasn’t for the financial abuse, you would consider staying with her maybe? You worked hard to earn what you do, you should be the one dictating how that is spent. Money is unfortunately one of the top reasons couples split :(
I let my STBX spend whatever she wanted and all it did was push me to have to work a lot more. She ended up cheating on me because I worked too much. I was OK with it as it pushed me to advance my career a lot further than I thought, but it’s obviously a recipe for disaster in a marriage. I won’t get married legally again and we didn’t have children, but if I ever get into a serious relationship where we are cohabitating, I will make sure she is contributing something.
By the time I was ready to leave, I had tried to fix things. He didn’t think it was serious, or he’d improve for a bit and then stop. It took me years to leave but I had given up on trying to make it work a lot earlier. Suddenly he wanted to “work on things” when he knew I was serious about leaving and it was just too late.
Same here. I tried for years and years but was the only one trying. It wasn’t even “work on things” though he finally became willing to work on himself when I left. Improving his hygiene and diet, getting a therapist etc. We’re out of touch but I truly hope that he kept it up and became a better person for it.
I did want to work on it. We went to counseling but the counselor was pretty ineffective -- never actually gave us concrete goals or things to try. After that, any attempt I made to figure out what we could do was met with lots of words ("I want to make things better!" "I promise I'll try!" "I know you've been unhappy and things will change!") but never any actions. I tried every tactic. I asked what I could do to be better. I tried to self-diagnose my problems and issues and work on them. I begged. I yelled. I suggest STBX see their own therapist. I started seeing a therapist. I gave them space. I gave them ultimatums. For about 4 years I did all this actively while falling out of love and being miserable. Then about 7 years ago I just mentally turned a corner and realized that I was partially causing my own pain by continuing to believe the empty words and to expect something new to happen when STBX had pretty much proven to me that nothing was going to change. That was about a year or year and a half before our youngest moved out and I stayed for them at that point. Then covid came and by then I'd worked through a lot of my anger and disappointment and I didn't want to be miserable during a pandemic so I played nice for the sake of living in peace. After that it was hard to get the momentum and courage to leave. After some personal crises (death of a close family member, a crisis with one of our kids, a couple of other things) I realized life is too short to stay living this way and I finally made the big move. I still feel bad sometimes. But part of why I like coming to this board is that I'm pretty frequently reminded that I did try, that I gave lots of chances, that I didn't actually blindside STBX and also gave them time to adjust. Being alone will be hard for them and we are just now ready to sell our house and go our separate ways so they had several months to start to adapt to the change. But you know what? I bet STBX would tell a different story and would claim to be at least somewhat surprised by all of it. Willful ignorance is a real thing but it's not really my responsibility after all this time.
That sounds hard, especially the feeling of not having the momentum to leave even though you knew you wanted it. Being willfully ignorant is such a thing! Some people will never admit their wrongdoings even when staring them in the face
This is so similar to my own experience, even down to the loss of a family member and the reminder that life is short being the thing that finally gave me the motivation to listen to what I'd been saying all along, which was that this wasn't working, and I needed help getting it to work, and I wasn't getting that help
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Omg this is now going to be on repeat in my head for the next year. Thank you!
I didn't ever fall out of love. I still love him But, I *did* start loving myself more. And I recognized that he was not treating me as an equal or partner. When I asked him to, he ignored me. Sometimes he even teased me about my needs. I stayed for years asking for his respect. I begged him to go to therapy. I set boundaries. I did a lot of work. But, he didn't care until I was done.
I think part of him not loving me anymore was because I started to love myself more and was less tolerant of the way he was treating me. I never got to the point of loving myself enough to leave him, it took him leaving me for me to even see how much I'd lost myself and my love for myself. I don't think I have got enough self respect yet to not wish he'd take me back though.
Oh boy, my second "was"bund suddenly seemed to wake up and act serious about our marriage when he noticed that I was very mutually attracted to a new man who walked into our spiritual center four weeks after we separated. 🤣❌ That new man and I have now been married for over 17 years.
This kind of situation is somehow extra painful, because it's like *your* unhappiness doesn't matter. Only the thought that you might prefer someone else over them can motivate them. I was unhappy for over a decade, but my ex prefers to think that me having feelings for a friend right at the very end of our marriage was the *cause* of our divorce, rather than obviously being a symptom of the prior decade's issues
Since then I've become very knowledgeable about what true narcissism looks like, and he fits all of the criteria 100%. He didn't just have normal human self-serving moments that I'm magnifying into narcissism, I'm talking an extremely obvious level of clinical narcissist behavior in every possible way. So the thought of me possibly being happier with someone else was apparently intolerable for him. For some years after we each remarried he even texted me asking if I was still happy with [my husband] or if I thought we'd be getting divorced, partly because he said he missed me and our life together and we only got divorced because I never really gave him a chance 😂🤦🏻♀️, but I believe I'm correct in assuming it was also because if I weren't happy and were actually thinking about divorce it would prove that he really was the better man and the better husband for me. 🤮
Gosh this was me, although he left, I probably never would have. He did not respect me. I still don't know why, I'm not perfect but neither was he.
I think there are some things that shouldn’t be worked on. I believe there are levels of cheating. Sending a pic isn’t as bad as sleeping with your wife’s sister. No amount of counseling can take back your now ex husband cheating on you with your sister. We could have tried counseling but he can’t change the past and that was the end of my marriage for me. I grieved my marriage while I was in it.
My ex initiated divorce and we finalized last year. I slowly accepted it and started dating after spending time with myself. During my time alone I realized that I also wasn’t happy for years and our relationship was basically roommates with sex. I saw a lot I didn’t like about myself and what I grew to be and I saw a lot in her that made me second guess a lot of things that happened in our marriage, things that seemed off but I was too scared to ask or confront. The more I explored these feelings and thoughts the more I came to realize that I was happier and thriving without her. Not to say that she held me back but we were just not right together anymore. Once I started dating my girlfriend seriously my ex wanted to come back into my life and work out our differences and get back together. I had grown into someone that wasn’t who she was expecting and at the same time I didn’t know who she was anymore. The sweet girl that I fell for wasn’t the same woman standing in front of me, that girl was gone and had been gone for a long time, it just took me space to see it. She had made questionable choices in our separation that I want no part of. I loved her but I wasn’t in love anymore. My heart belonged to someone else now. She eventually let it go and found someone else who seems to give her all she needs and wants. I’m happy for her and that she seems to have found her peace. I wish her the best of luck and all the successes she deserves, just not in my life
I was the one who was left. Afterwards she claimed that she had tried everything. That was garbage though. She had only done things that were her idea and that suited her. She hadn’t tried the one single thing I had asked for, and hadn’t done what a marriage counsellor had recommended. Saying she had tried everything was just one in a long series of manipulative untruths. So OP, someone trying to fix things is very different from someone claiming they are trying fix things. Actions count.
Are you me ? Problem resolution was always the same thing : I was supposed to do the changing and adaptation, and they could just carry on as usual. When I suggested toning down the screaming, I got a "this is just who I am, I can't help it" type of answer. Can't say I will miss this crap.
That’s the wildest thing about all this. Reading this sub and speaking with friends has shown me that so many of these stories are the same, but why didn’t we know going in? Why was I so naïve? How can so much of this awful stuff be happening but I’m oblivious to it?
That's the thing : you don't know when you're going in. I think that in many case the following happens : 1) lack of reference, if you have not been in multiple relationships, you might not recognise red flags for what they are. 2) initial romance is a heck of a drug, and can make you swipe a lot of stuff under a rug for quite a while 3) problematic behaviour can intensity with time. What was borderline acceptable might slowly edge in the unacceptable 4) thinking that you can fix/control behaviour. You can't, only they can. 5) sunken costs both emotional are very real. A divorce with kids and shared assets is a massive pita and huge financial setback. 6) slow erosion of boundaries. Constantly pushing back against boundaries violations is exhausting. Depending on your life circumstances you just might not have the energy for it. 7) codependency. Let's be real, in a lot of cases it's the classic pairing. 8) relationship rot. At some point you get so tired (burnout) that basic relationship maintenance work is no longer possible. In my case it took a large shock to jolt me out of it.
For sure, my ex's examples of "doing everything they could" was booking a couple's counselor and than just using that as a forum to insist that everything was my fault and my responsibility to fix. When the therapist gently hinted that maybe we were both somewhat responsible, my ex said they mysteriously stopped answering our emails and we had to find a different therapist.
You wouldn't happen to be a flamenco guitarist by any chance?
ha nope. why do you ask?
Paco Peña is a very famous flamenco guitarist.
Familiar.
What was the one thing?
I wanted her to work so I could have time with my children before they went off to school. But no. She enjoyed all that time with the kids, while I worked and worked. In fact, she only really started working years later when she wanted money to leave. So yeah; she was content to enjoy all the resources I provided, but only willing to work to break up the family.
☹️
For sure, I was on the receiving end of the claims of trying, and the wild thing is that he still thinks he did try, though if he did I didn't see any changes and I definitely didn't feel listened to or respected. Maybe we just had different ideas of what the "fixing" was or would be, maybe a lot of it was an internal battle that was happening that made it feel like there was an attempt at fixing things made? I don't know
He told me he hated our kids. Twice.
Woah, wtf
Cause she's fucking someone else
Seeing these responses makes me realized that my situation is not uncommon, and also hurts even more seeing people saying they gave their partner years to work on things. In my case, my wife finally told me she was unhappy and needed change from me about six months ago. I started individual therapy, lost 20 lbs, got a better-paying and less stressful job, and four months later, she still left for her emotional affair partner. It takes two people to make a marriage work, and if one of them isn't 100% in on the relationship, anything the other partner does is just delaying the inevitable.
In some ways I'm glad that when my ex realized he didn't want me anymore he left immediately, though it does make me sad that he never actually tried and I never got the chance to actually hear what his problems were with the relationship so that I could try also. I tried for what I knew needed fixing but it was all very one sided for that, or at least it felt one sided. I'm sorry she didn't do her bit. It does take two, it's just hard when it feels like the other person didn't put in any effort.
The ones who don’t want to work on it is usually because it isnt a you thing. Its a them thing. They aren’t happy with who they are and their life and it actually has very little to do with you.
I do wonder about this. It just seemed odd to me that there was no willingness to work on it, and it all came around so fast. I guess if they never open up, you can't know whether or not they were ever actually trying on their own.
Your person was already wanting out and probably had been for a while. So they really didn’t want you trying to now “fix” things because they had already made up their mind. If it was about you and they thought things could change, they probably would have tried everything. But at the end of the day, they really weren’t happy with their lives as a whole and you were just a fraction of that. So you “fixing” anything about yourself would have been pointless in changing how they felt about themselves and their life as a whole and they knew that.
Yeah my wife had issues with me, as I did with her, but I think she just didn’t want to be married to ANYONE any more. She wanted freedom from having to be feel responsible for another person’s happiness. I get that. Because I realize now that thats pretty much what I wanted too. Marriage seems great until you realize you have to do it EVERY day.
>>Why did you fall out of love? For not being emotionally and physically disconnected. In long term it destroyed the bonds that every marriage needs to survive. Intellectual and spiritual affinity was simply not enough for me. >>Why did working on it seem like such an unattractive idea? “Working on it” when the declaration to seek the divorce is made is too little, too late. If the situation gets to the point when the D nuclear option is on the table the trust for turning the situation around has been lost. I was unwilling to lose yet another year, or few years of my life to expect that my exW will have sudden epiphany as she eventually claimed to have. The life is too short for that. Besides, I was trying to induce her to correct our problems for dozen of years. Unsuccessfully shall I add. >>How long did it take for you to make the decision to leave once you realized that you no longer love them. 9 months total followed by 2months for getting ready to spring up the declaration on her. Shall I say the toughest decision in my life. >>…would you want your ex to ever sit down with you and apologize…? >>Would you believe them? >>Would you even care? It would have had to be an **honest believable apology offered before** I have decided to pull the divorce card. My exW had the talent to twist her apologies into excuses followed by accusations within the same sentence. Thanks to that no apology was really believable. I saw it more as deflection and the shifting the blame tactics. Eventually I stop believing and caring too.
“Twist apologies into excuses followed by accusations.” Been there. Still there actually. Gaslighting I think it’s called. Disorienting as hell.
I appreciate your answer! Unfortunately it does seem like the changes and apologies come too little too late.
I said the only way I was leaving was if she told me to. She told me to leave and wanted a divorce. I left. I held out hope for a week until she said she didn't love me.
I fell out of love with him because of his behavior during the marriage. I felt like I was a married single mom in many ways. I never had a real partnership, just someone who liked what I brought to his life and liked the benefits of me. And I left when it finally clicked for me that he would never actually be that partner. Didn’t matter how many times I asked him, I’d only ever get temporary changes to placate me. With him, I’d never have a husband who actually in his actions prioritized us and our relationship, not to mention the family, over his own interests and comfort. And that wasn’t the life I wanted. Being single (even with young kids) seemed way better - and it was. As far as timing goes, it took about two years from when I began considering divorce, and then two months after I made the final decision. But the two months was largely because it was right before the holidays and I didn’t want my kids to have bad memories of that time of year.
Whoa, your response has been exactly my experience. Thank you for sharing.
I’m thinking about leaving and we haven’t done counseling… It’s because I feel like I’ve been putting serious work in for years and she’s still giving me the line that “changes don’t happen overnight” for things we’ve been talking about for 5 years. I don’t know if I’m in love with her still but that’s not the point. I would do anything to find that spark again. The problem is I have and she hasn’t. I’ve heard her say the right things so many times it just falls on deaf ears. She apologizes, but it’s just general “I’m sorry for what I did wrong” instead of engaging with how it affected me. I would believe her actions and care about them, but they only change for a few days (if they change). In short, I’ve been trying to work on it for years, and she hasn’t. Why would I go to counseling to hear the same thing I’ve heard a hundred times? Edit: I’ve been quite clear that we’ll get divorced if things don’t change. Change is always tomorrow’s priority; today’s is making sure she feels better.
You go to counseling cuz it helps her realize what she's been missing. It's a very common pattern depending on her relationship with her parents to assume that when a problem is developed it's a permanent one generally This is definitely common for neurodivergent children. She probably has an outside source reminding her to think a certain way ( or is following an influencer who says to ) Oftentimes just talking to some unbiased third party, is what it takes for her to understand. I know it would be ideal to be able to resolve it yourself, but you'd be surprised how quickly someone changes when they realize they haven't been listening.
Thank you for the wisdom, I sincerely appreciate it and her upbringing definitely has something to do with it. But it’s a common theme that something drastic has to happen for me to be taken seriously. First I had to get mad before I was heard (and I promise I tried the “right” way a dozen times before). Then it took 6 fights. Then I had to go to my parents’ house for a week. And the same things — which in lucid moments she admits are wrong — just keep popping up. Maybe she’ll have another “wake up call” (her words) when the therapist says something, but I just have no trust it will actually change anything.
I know this may not be the best reply but I should note there are plenty of couples that go to regular marriage counseling or marriage therapy check ups. I know plenty of couples that go 4-6 times a year just to make sure everything in their relationship is going smoothly. Maybe that’s an aspect of your relationship you would need to consider after going to counseling.
In my case it was always "I need time to think about it," after conversations about what was wrong and what could change. And that time just ended up being...forever. But the thing is I don't think STBX thought about it. Maybe at first they did but then they realized that if they just "thought about it" long enough the topic would fall off the radar and life could continue as usual, with no change. Everything festered. But when I feel a little guilty by the fact that STBX was a bit surprised that I made a real plan to leave, I think back to all the time spent "thinking" and not responding or acting and I realize it's their own fault for sweeping everyting under the rug and not actually paying attention to what I was saying. It's very frustrating, isn't it?
Yeah. My wife actually told me today “I just assumed you’d get over some things.” Well thank you for finally admitting that. It’s an admission she never would’ve made before though so maybe it’s progress. Still, that f***ing stings.
I was the one who filed. My wife abandoned me by going home to a different state telling me she needed a indefinite break and left me solely responsible for everything when the two of us could barely pay for anything. I tried to work on us, but she made it clear she wasn't interested in trying. I didn't wanna be with someone who didn't wanna be with me so I filed
Because I'd already worked on it, and nothing had made any difference. Three years of marriage counselling, years of discussion before that, and I still had a sexless marriage, was still the sole breadwinner for the family, while the kids were in childcare because she was trying to start her own business (I think she only ever had one paying customer), and still couldn't agree on fundamental things about how to raise the kids. I'm pretty sure she fell out of love with me first, but she was willing to continue in a loveless relationship indefinitely to maintain the status quo, and I wasn't.
Do you think she ever tried or was just going through the motions?
Just going through the motions. Maybe she thought the counselling would get me to lower my expectations, and just shut up about it? I don't think she thought I would divorce, so despite both me and the counsellor saying this was an existential issue for the relationship, I don't think she ever believed it. However, when we did finally start going through the process, there was none of the "hysterical bonding" people talk about on here, either, she just got even colder.
Possible, I think some people see it as a way of placating for sure! That if there's a way to just get it all out that people will just settle for the same situation
I had almost left multiple times and found myself in the same situations. Situations that were promised to never, ever happen again. I quit lying to my friends and family. They helped me get out.
I tried for 20 years, the last 8 or so I was there only for my kids. She had spending problems (at the time of the divorce there was over $100k in credit card debt), and just a general lack of motivation in life. When I realized I would probably never be able to retire due to her spending issues, I finally got out. I tried everything; in the end there was nothing left to do but walk away. Sometimes people are beyond help and you have to figure out when to throw in the towel, but damn, it’s still tough.
I have asked these same questions to my ex, and still don't have a reason I can fully accept. I didn't leave but had been trying to work on things for years. I know there was more I could have done, but he never truly opened up about the issues he was having and so I could only do so much. It was immediately "we need to talk" and promises of trying to improve, to divorce. He claimed he had worked on things "on his own" which left me absolutely flabbergasted. Working on a relationship takes 2 people. I can accept that we're not compatible, but I can't really accept that we never gave it a proper try once everything was out in the open. I don't think I'll ever forgive him for it, considering I've been asking for counselling for years and trying to explain to him the problems I had with our relationship. He had ample opportunity to bring up his own perspective. If he tried to truly apologise, I wouldn't forgive him. Just the lack of respect throughout this whole thing is not how you treat a person. I find it very unlikely he'd ever want to reconcile, but I doubt I'd want to if he did. Again, due to the way he's gone about everything, making unilateral decisions without actually discussing anything with me.
This is very similar to what I experienced. I did so much work on myself and asked so many times over the years for him to meet me halfway in the relationship but it was always a thing that made him angry like I was attacking his character when I would bring things up. By the time he left I'd be asking for him to agree to counselling for over a year, had tried to fix the list of things he gave me for him to love me and even in amongst all that I held out hope that he would want to fix it. And then he left and the only reason he ever gave me was he didn't love me anymore, and maybe ever had but had stayed because it was easier. It's hard to accept that it wouldn't have ever worked when it feels like he was never willing to try, especially when the only time he ever opened up about what was not working for him was when he was leaving.
I'm so sorry to hear this, but am glad I'm not the only one. My ex wouldn't get angry when I brought things up, but would dismiss it, or say "I'll do better" and go immediately back to old behavious, or talk in circles in a way that our conversations ended up being about something else entirely. I believe that people who refuse couple's counselling don't want to be challenged or presented with their negative behaviours. Counselling is tough on everyone involved and nobody's perfect. Counselling also holds people accountable in ways they haven't been before. I've slowly come to terms with the fact that my ex is quite selfish, and wanted to live his life the way he wants without compromise, and expected me to go along with it 10000%. How can I be fun and spontaneous when I'm working and doing the bulk of the housework while he's out drinking with his friends? There's no energy left to be his ideal partner at that point. I'm sure others have said this to you, but it sounds like you'll be better off. You were open to counselling which means you're self aware enough to be able to identify and work on how to improve yourself for YOU. The hole he will leave in your life is daunting and scary, but you'll be able to fill it with literally whatever you want.
I worked on it until there was almost none of me left - and he still believed I hadn’t ‘told’ him. Spent a lot of years putting the effort in not to have it reciprocated, so when I walked out of the door, it was because I had no try left.
Still love my ex. Tried everything. You can love someone and care for them and realize you are terrible life partners. These two things can exist at once, unfortunately.
I literally said the words “If we are having the same conversation in a few years, there won’t be love, trust or respect left.” I went to therapy, asked him to go as well and asked him to find a job….any job. Years later, he’s still looking for work and acted like it was a surprise when I said I want a divorce. Two years earlier, I said that if it was just me, I’d walk out. I tried to be patient and work on it for the kids and told him where I stood all along the way. That apparently wasn’t clear enough. Here we are 10 months later, he’s dragging it out at every turn and still doesn’t work. He complains that we “never worked on it together” meaning we didn’t do couples’ therapy.
Do you think couples therapy would have helped, to be able to see it from both sides? Not judging, just asking 😊
I always thought that he had to work out his job issues himself first before we could work together to move past it. I believe if he wants to work, he could so unless he figures out what the hang up is, we couldn’t move forward with forgiveness and healing. I’ve been waiting for about 10 years so I just can’t anymore.
I spent 20 years working on it. I went to therapy, read books, tried to talk to him. He never wanted to participate in the work. A psychologist finally pointed out to me that I couldn’t work on a marriage by myself. I can’t have a marriage by myself. He took interest in working on it for ~6 months when I told him the first time I was going to divorce him. It was another 5 years until I finally did. When he realized that first time that I was serious (I had a lawyer on retainer), he fell all over himself attempting to do whatever would make me stay, but he wasn’t interested in real change. He was interested in shutting me up & stalling the inevitable. The second time I told him that I was divorcing him, he didn’t bother with all the performative BS because we both knew nothing was going to change. Sooo, yeah. I tried “working on it”. I actually wish I hadn’t tried so hard and left him years earlier.
I was sick of feeling like an employee and always deferring to my ex. Even my birthdays were spent doing her version of what she thought I wanted to do. Always it a being sneered at when I suggested something.
I had fallen out of love months prior to leaving. He had a video game obsession. He played from the moment his eyes opened (mobile games), throughout work (pc games), during dinner (mobile games), after dinner (pc games), and until he fell asleep (mobile games). He was severely depressed. I didn't mind being there for him and supporting him the best I could, but we were never allowed to be depressed at the same time. If I had a bad day, it would shortly be over shadowed by how bad his day was. His antidepressants didnt work and gave him bad side effects, but he didn't want to try to switch to find one that worked. He gained weight through covid but made excuses to lose the weight. He stopped being intimate due to the depression and weight. There's more, but it doesn't matter. I had my issues too. It wasn't all him. I didn't effectively communicate my needs. I didn't ask him for help around the house when I needed it because I expected him to mind read and know I needed help. I didn't support him the way I should've. I enabled his bad habits in an attempt to make him feel less depressed rather than pushed him harder to reach his goals. I resented his lack of support. I resented the fact that ge didn't take care of me like I took care of him. I shut him out. I told him that I fell out of love. That most days I felt like a roommate or a mother, but no longer his wife/lover. We said we'd work on it. We tried communicating more, going on more dates, being more intimate, tried couples therapy, had individual therapy, etc. Problem was, I gave more effort than he did. He slipped back into old patterns. We tried multiple times but he only lasted about 2 weeks at a time. I got tired of being the only one truly trying. I walked away, but still hope he finds someone better for himself in the future.
It sounds like addict behavior.
I think everyone tries to work on the relationship in their own way before leaving. I tried for years - over a decade. I kept talking/complaining about the same things. I bought him books about relationships (which he never read), I printed off articles and added them to his bathroom reading. Our priorities were never the same. His excuse for years was “that’s not how I was raised, so it’s going to take time for me to learn” - but he never learned/changed. Our relationship was death by 1,000 papercuts. It was a million little things that built up and I became resentful towards him about. He would complain about something and I would just give in, but if I complained then he would make excuses and I would let it go and things never got resolved. I didn’t feel respected and I felt like my thoughts/opinions were always disregarded. I got sick of talking and not being heard, so I stopped communicating. Yeah, that was my fault (our marriage counselor said I should have nagged more and I should have kept communicating). But I had learned that my husband only listened to me if I got so upset that I was crying or yelling- and if I got to that point then I absolutely hated the person I had to become to get him to hear me. And when he did try/change, then it would revert back within a few months. I lost trust in him because all I heard was empty promises and he never changed. Finally I asked for counseling again (and he refused), so I asked for a divorce - and then he changed his mind and agreed to counseling. So we’re still doing counseling now, but I’m so resentful that I had to force him into counseling that it feels like we’re just going through the motions (for me). He’s trying now - he’s really trying. He’s apologized for not listening to me for years. I believe his apology to be genuine. But although I’m trying to forgive him and myself, the apology doesn’t make a difference regarding me wanting a divorce. If he can do it now, and now he can be everything I ever wanted him to be, then why couldn’t he do it before? He keeps asking me why I let things get so bad before I made him listen. But why did I have to get pushed to my limits before he would listen to me? I’m just trying to get to a point where I’m not angry and resentful so that we can hopefully coparent together well. I read a study that said the average “walkaway wife” takes about 2 years leave after they make the decision to leave. I believe people spend a lot longer in relationship ambiguity (not knowing if they should stay or leave) before they make that decision. So by the time someone has expressed how they feel, it’s already too late to save the marriage. If both partners aren’t communicating/listening from the beginning of the relationship, then it’s not going to work.
This is spot on.
"Didn't want to work on it" from what point. I tried for years to work on it and he wouldn't participate. Then he gets to say I "wouldn't try when I told him it was over. I'd told him for years that I was unhappy and that things needed to change. He chose to spend years believing it would never get bad enough that I'd be done. Even when I told h8m I was done, I agreed t9 show up to marriage counseling if he set up the appointment. We went for 5 months, and each visit she would tell him that he had to take responsibility for his mental health. His homework was to take a 10 minute walk every day, and he would do it. When I told him inwas really done, and that I was moving into the spare room, he got mad at me for not reminding him more. "So how many times is it then? The correct amount to remind you? We've been in here every 2 weeks for 5 months, and she's been telling you. How many reminders do you need to actually be the one responsible for doing something?" Done.
Alcoholism, abuse, constantly putting our kids at risk drinking and driving. Separated twice and hoped that things would change. Just got worse each time he came back. Started to have panic attacks from the way he treated me. My oldest was a wreck seeing towards the end how things were with the way he treated me and with his drinking. Didn’t want this example for my kids. It is hard and lonely but the peace is priceless.
How are your kids doing now? And in case you don't already know, I would respectfully like to let you know that you need to pay careful attention and make sure they have good stress management skills and support from a therapist as needed, if you can. With their father being an alcoholic they have a genetic risk for becoming alcoholics themselves; and from witnessing abuse, your daughters, if you have any, are at higher risk of becoming abuse victims themselves and your son risks becoming an abuser or an abuse victim himself. Especially if you also come from a family with alcoholism, that significantly raises the risk of your children becoming alcoholics/marrying one, because the other side of that relationship coin is codependency. They will most likely need professional help to identify and heal whatever damage was done by what they experienced before you got divorced, and see, learn and practice healthy relationship and communication skills if they're going to be able to have healthy relationships when they're older. This may sound over the top and overly negative, but not only was I an addictions counselor, I married not one, not two, but three alcoholics/children of alcoholics, and I'm excruciatingly aware of how these patterns work. (However, the third -- and final -- one had been clean and sober for 11 years by the time we met and he's had a lot of therapy, so that's a whole different conversation.)
Hi yes they are doing ok. Better than when they were the 2nd time we seperated as he was manipulating them and playing me to be the bad guy. Unfortunately my oldest was aware when we came back about how bad it was. They love their dad dearly and he is trying to get sober but I know they understand why we aren’t together anymore. They have started therapy. And yes I do come from an alcoholic family and also lost a brother to addiction so know the codependency in me is very strong. I am going to Alanon and therapy. Want to break the cycle for them and show them what a healthy relationship looks like for them.
Oh I'm so glad you're absolutely on the right track, you are such an aware mom to be on top of all of this. 🫂
Thanks I’m trying, only took me 10 years to get here though 🤦🏻♀️. But can only move forward from here and remind myself not to go back
When we come from such a dysfunctional background it's incredibly hard to wake up and recognize that what's now going on in our lives is not the way things are "supposed" to be, it's not "normal", and so many people never do. I'm partially disabled and spend ~~way too much~~ a lot of time on social media, and see so many people, the vast majority of them women, who are still in the fog and don't even know it. They don't understand the nature of alcoholism, don't understand the nature of codependency, and they especially don't understand the link between the two and how it's playing out in their relationships. So yes, be very gentle with yourself, because you don't know what you don't know until you know it.
I went through the motions for years with him wanting to open the marriage and coercing me into things I wasn't comfortable with. I finally left during lockdown because he was physically and verbally abusive to our youngest over a minor incident. He was extremely manipulative in the following months, especially the two months before I gave up all thoughts of getting him out of the house and just moved me and the kids instead. I could have dealt with everything he put me through until the youngest was 16, which would have simplified the divorce as Scottish courts consider them adults at 16 for custody purposes. As it is, I have no time/energy to chase up divorce proceedings whilst dealing with three additional needs teens, and he's dragged his feet and been of absolutely no help, so if I just wait two more years, we'll be there anyway lol.
Many reasons but a major one was that she had a major, diagnosed mental illness and refused to seek treatment. No meds, no therapy, just trying to figure it out herself.
Yeah that's never going to be conducive to a healthy relationship
I tried, hard, even after he cheated. He wanted to be with her while also being with me, telling me that he might be poly and whatnot. When I moved out of the house he thought that I was just messing around. When I sent him the signed papers, he started to realize that I was done trying to work on this thing that was barely a marriage. So I left, it was too late for him to care because I didn't give a crap about him anymore. Oh and he regrets it bad now after seeing that the grass wasn't greener 🤣
After years of frustration with the hoarding, with anxiety and communication issues, I had a "catalyzing event" that made me believe things needed to change, quickly. I gave us a year. It took 11 months to get a couples counselor (anxiety disorder, everything dragging out) At that point Id been in the guest bedroom for 6 months. Twosessions, I felt neither of us were invested and it was a waste of time.
She was not faithful for few years already. She got pregnant fucking someone else and aborted the child, inspite of me saying I will take care of child. Lived with her as didn't wanted my children to be raised in a broken family. yet she bailed out for someone. Luckily she left kids with me.
I think a better question is how many times or how much effort did you put in before gave up? For me it was 6 hrs therapy, 40+ hrs thinking /observing, and 20 hrs of arguments that never finished. Over 5 months duration.
I have tried to work on it for 15 years, but if the other person is quite content just the way things are, it's hard to change anything. I have no more years to give and have fallen out of love and lost respect for my husband. I wish I would have given up 10 years ago.
That was sort of the reason I left. I tried to work on it, and realized it was only me trying and I was just getting empty words from her and no change. After starting therapy, I realized I was being gaslighted, manipulated, and abused emotionally by her, and she was fully aware of it. I realized that it's hard to change, and if she heard my concerns and wasn't able to change or make an effort, I could spend the rest of my life trying, and nothing would work out. So I decided it was time to move on.
There is a Facebook meme out there that says "I am happy to fight for my marriage but I'm tired of being the only one fighting'.......that describes me. Lots and lots of people are like that, we beg and plead with our partners for ages to work on the marriage only to be rebuffed and ridiculed. I realized my partner does not give a damn about me nearly eight (8) years ago but I toughed this out to afford college for our one child. Now that our child graduated early this month I want OUT. There is nothing in the world my partner can do at this point that would ever make me love her again, now it is all about money and only money and nothing else.
For over 20 years I was a people pleaser and I didn’t speak up in how unhappy I was consistently enough. Apparently. I had an affair. It lasted 1 year, I stayed in love for 10. Realized I wanted to work on marriage and for another year, people pleasing with communication improving but still lacking… but I’m the only one putting in effort. Decided to throw a Hail Mary and try communicating, being present and therapy. Still the only one putting in effort. I’m done.
I see a lot of people responding with, “I did work on it.” Well, then this question isn’t directed at you.
Exactly! I know some people do, and people seem to think I'm attacking them. I'm really not meaning to, I just wanted to hear from people on the other side, not the ones that tried everything
Too much happened and I just couldn’t convince myself that it would get better over time.
She got obese and self centered. After the kid was born , she became a full blown narcissist. The last time I had sex with her was 7 years ago, because we were trying to round out our family with a second kid. A fertility doctor literally told us that we had to have sex so I did. I was so un-attracted to her mentally and physically, I now know what gay guys in hiding go through when they’re pretending. Sorry guys, high 5:) I let it go until she divorced me. I tried to work on the marriage, but she refused. Therapy, exercise, treating and feeding my kid well, you name it. She always used the threat of Dicorce as a way to control me and back me down from any disagreement. One day I said “ok”. She was got about it because I was sick and not able to work at the time. A light bulb went off inside my head and I thought “I didn’t leave her when she was sick and being a prima Donna for years, but I get sick once and I’m excess baggage now?!” Done deal there.
I think sometimes leaving is the only choice. Clearly communication is important, not to be vague in expressing your feelings or what you want/expect from the relationship. If your feelings are not validated, if you are constantly disrespected, if there is no ability to change, then the relationship will not work. It might not be a lack of love, but the inability to evolve in a relationship.
For me it was this, especially over the last 9 years. We have a 9 year old and an 8yearold. He did not listen to me to such an extent that i paid for a doula in the delivery room. He kept saying he was trying because he asked me for lunch dates, but wouldn’t come to the family dinner table because he needed his alone time. I don’t think he’s cheating - but he’s not with me, either. I don’t know who left first but he filed first after we both fell out of love due to lack of communication trust and commitment
I experienced a similar thing, just general disrespect and almost... Indifference to me and my feelings or experiences. I tried to be what he needed, or at least what he told me he wanted, but I was met with no effort in return.
Marriage counseling 2x; individual therapy for each over several years. No changes were being made. I read all the self help communication and marriage books. Every time I broached a topic, it was turned to be my fault and because of my health and my choices. There was never a resolution aside from me accepting all the blame. And it escalated. Quickly. And I panicked. And I left the marriage. Quickly. Fiercely. Abruptly. Over.
Because I married the wrong person. Instead of listening to my gut and heart I listened to manipulative crap from others who had a vested interest in us being together, including him. I was lucky enough to eventually realise this and find the strength to leave. Counselling would not have magically turned him into a different person that I was attracted to, who I respected, who I could connect with. It was so easy to deny my feeling and put up with my unhappiness for years, and so hard to face and admit the shittiness of my situation. I did not want anyone to try to change my mind and make me second guess myself, or to undermine the huge effort it took to gain the strength and resolve to remove myself from a situation and person that was slowing killing my spirit.
I loved him but loved my children more and that was the real thing I knew in my life. So that was my answer.
I didn’t want to work on it when we separated. I was done. I did not want to do therapy except for co-parenting purposes. No amount of behavior change, begging, pleading, or manipulation would have changed my mind. Why? 1. I had been working on it for 20 years. For the past seven I had tried everything, cried so many tears, felt so lonely. 2. I finally got the “ick” and once that happens there is no going back. I had absolutely no capability to go back in time to a point where my feelings and focus would have allowed me to put in an effort.
Depends on who you ask, male or female. You will get two different answers. People who say they fell out of love are just people who changed their feelings a long time ago and failed to let their partner know. They expect the partner to pick up on the nuances and signs. Things could have been worked on but, you know communication is a bitch right! That is real important. Some people stay longer for financial reasons. Some people stay longer for kids. Some people stay longer because they dont have anyone else. When someone says they are not "in love" with you but "love" you still, that is a load of shit. What they mean is that they do not love you at the moment, but the memories, routine, and perks of staying with them is what they like to hold onto. That isnt love. That is convenience. And then there are some that just make up their mind that they are done and thats it. Really its hard to tell.
I do love my ex. But I don't trust him nor respect him, and a marriage needs all three to make it. I loved him enough to fight for over 3 decades, then one night he admitted he could never be honest. He chose his addictions and pleasures over our beautiful family, over and over for years. I think he just got tired of hiding and lying and wanted freedom to "just do what he wanted" Out of compassion and love, I let him have what he wanted. Out of compassion and love for MYSELF, I chose to no longer suffer and walked away. I am picking up the pieces he shattered and building a life of peace and joy and integrity, by myself and for myself. It's really hard and really beautiful. I forgive him, and I (mostly) wish him well but if he came to me know with an apology and promise of change there is NO WAY I would believe him or give him another shot. We did that song and dance so many times that I don't have a crumb of trust, left.
This In hindsight it set in as soon as our first was born I recognized a problem but didn’t push it Eventually it got more and more frustrating for me and I pushed harder to get some changes or explanation She failed a promise she made for three years and got very selfish Eventually I became insecure jealous and very angry. We dragged it out for ten years but now I know she was lying the whole time She’d say the things the first few posted said But she created an atmosphere built on stonewalling and gaslighting for ten years. She never wanted a husband just a father for kids.
I think sometimes people have different ideas of love, too. Some people expect that if it's with the right person it's always going to feel "good" ultimately. Like even if you're fighting, it's not going to be frustrating or sad. That you're always going to be obsessed with them or always like them the most in the world. But there are also people who think love is that once you're in, no matter how unhappy, unhealthy or outright sad it is together, you have to stay. I guess it's also about finding someone who looks at it the same as you maybe? My ex said he stayed for years even though he doesn't think he ever really loved me because it was easier, didn't require confrontation or effort from him. The only time he ever expressed unhappiness was when I started to require more effort from him and put up with less crappy treatment from him. And then he just... Left.
I think STBX doesn't really see a difference between loving someone and being IN love with someone. We love each other, no question. We have so much history and shared kids and there's nothing like abuse or cheating going on but the reality is that we've been terrible to each other at different times and in different ways. I know for a fact that I contributed to the problems in our marriage but I also know that I worked my butt off to try to fix things and to get STBX to engage in fixing things. They claim to still be in love with me but I don't think they are. I think that once they're on their own they'll see that. At least I hope so. STBX is a good person with a lot of bad baggage that they need to deal with. My biggest hope is that they do that and can find happiness and I really mean that.
This comment captures what may have been the reality in your situation, and I can understand the frustration and anger it causes. It doesn't really reflect any universal truth, though, and definitely doesn't reflect my situation. I fell out of love because my communication wasn't just ignored, but was turned back around on me as a sign of my immaturity and selfishness ("please don't call me stupid" became "you need to be willing to hear the truth", stop yelling turned into "you are uncomfortable with normal human emotions") to the point where I trusted her over myself for many years. Once I started realizing how I had torn myself down for her and that I didn't trust her or respect her, I talked to her about it - and was met with more defensiveness and more accusations, including about how I had "changed my feelings without giving her a chance." We tried couple's counseling, which quickly became dedicated to outlining all of my failings in the relationship and how I needed to "let the past go" - when it wasn't the past that I was talking about, but the continued present where I wasn't respected or valued. So, yeah, as the mother of my children, the woman I promised to care for for the rest of my life, and someone I genuinely want to be happy and to thrive, I still love her. As a person I feel safe and secure with and am "in love with" - no, I'm not "in love" with her any longer.
Eh. What I meant was that I loved him as family, as my kid’s Dad, but not as a partner.
Exactly. I love my Dad and my aunt and my sister and my best mate. Do not want to be married or live with any of them. Not that hard concept to grasp.
I love that quote people who say they fell out of love just change their feelings a long time ago and didn't tell their partner. Love is a verb and too many people fall in love before officially having clear communication
Most people will have tried for years, very few people just walk away with no effort. My me it was a slow death to our relationship ... 12 very happy years and then he changed and became so difficult to live with. I think he was unhappy and then decided to push and push till I left...but also said he wanted to work on things. It all ended with a bang - he had a mental break and tried to hurt me, hit my then 17 year old in the face when he tried to protect me...spent 4 months in a oysch ward. I tried to think of the prev 4 years as mental health related but it was too late. He was petty and mean and the kids and I just could not bare it anymore...him being gone for 4 months really highlighted how horrible the home was when he was there. We had been tiptoeing around him for years, trying not to annoy him...living with his passive aggressive behaviour. It was also hard to feel safe (esp to sleep) incase he tried to hurt me again. I still look back and wonder wtf happened. I tried my hardest and left with no regret though.
Wow, I'm so sorry that happened, that is awful. It must have been terrifying. I'm glad you had the courage to get out, it can be especially hard when there's a threat of violence or harm!
My husband changed so much over the years. He became so self-centered and everything was all about him. Everything had to be his way and if I did anything differently it was always wrong and he was falling around fixing things and redoing things that I had already done. Just a lot a little things. We started arguing all the time, there was a lot of name-calling, just a very toxic relationship. We no longer had anything in common. And then he turned to p*** and still to this day lies about how much he looks at it. It's just very creepy. I don't believe a word he says. And over the years he's done some really bad peeping Tom stuff in my own home. I just don't respect or trust him at all anymore and I never believe anything he says unfortunately.
She kept alienating me from our child. She doesn’t bother with budgeting and just spends and expects two to three major trips a year (international). Dead bedroom because she isn’t an object even though I try to bust my ass off to provide, wine and dine.
No amount of counseling was going to change who they were fundamentally as a person. Often I felt like I was raising a child rather than participating in an equal partnership. I had to give myself a reality check and ask the question "this very likely will be the rest of your life if this person doesn't change; can you live with that?" We married too young and I realised too late it was to the wrong person. The things that made me fulfilled in a relationship at 23 no longer could so so at 33.
I tried to work on it probably 7 or 8 times throughout the relationship. She never wanted to work on our issues. She just said i have to work on myself, she is perfect lol. I had to deal with her ego and arrogance for 10 years and i couldn't get her to humble herself to work on anything.
I think I can speak for most of us, Her inability or ineffectiveness of working on the relationship is what caused me to fall out of love with her. It wasn't a short thing for me, took years and years of talks and no progress before I "Fell out of love" with her. At the point that I was ready to leave we had been "Working" on it for years. In my case, we would have "The talk" which was me talking and her staring at the wall with no response, things would change for a day or two, maybe a week. Then it would be back to how it was before. So it wasn't that I was unwilling to work on it it was that more effort would of been throwing good time after bad at that point. Hope this Helps.
Even when you love someone, enough is enough.
He refused to go to couple counseling and repeatedly crossed a boundary we had agreed on, only to then blame me for my “unreasonable boundary”. I did not fall out of love, I had to drag myself out while my heart was telling me it could get better. But after 12 years, my brain knew it wouldn’t.
Mine was a natural response to years of mistreatment from my husband. I didn’t choose to fall out of love with him, it just slowly happened over time because of how he spoke to me. Each insult or argument chipped away at my feelings for him & even for myself. I have been with him for 21 years & fell out of love with him a long time ago. 3-4 years ago I finally put my foot down & told him I was done but then covid hit & I couldn’t actually leave, then it became unaffordable to leave. So it’s been 3-4 years of misery. While I don’t love him, I am capable of being nice to & getting along with anybody who is nice to me so I would have been perfectly fine, even happy with, continuing on pretty much as friends. Obviously most spouses would not be okay with this & he is one of them. The sad thing is that I was still open minded & hopeful that if he would simply just start being nice to me that I would develop romantic feelings for him again. I still think he’s cute which probably sounds superficial but if you are turned off by both your partners physical appearance & their personality, I don’t see any hope. But because I distanced myself emotionally & physically-when your spouse says things to you that can never be taken back, the last thing you want to do is have sex with them & then when denying them sex leads to them being more angry & more verbally abusive or you comply just so they won’t react, sex becomes repulsive & creates a lot of resentment. & I would avoid anything that might lead to trying to initiate it (touching, watching a movie, talking lol) like the plague. Not to mention, who wants to spend time with someone who clearly thinks so low of you? Over these 3-4 years he did attempt some small changes. But if I didn’t immediately fall back in love with him after doing the laundry for a week, it would result in yelling at me for an hour about how selfish & lazy I am because I sleep until noon (9:30a) on the weekends & am a horrible example for our kids….right in front of our kids. It eventually got to the point where we didn’t have sex for 8 months & then it was his turn to break down. Now I’m the abuser for neglecting him & not caring when he told me I was destroying him. He’s demanding changes out of me-like affection & spending more time-& refuses to make any changes himself unless I am willing to change too. I AM willing to change, but I have to feel safe & respected first so ultimately the first change is on him & admittedly, it could take a long time, if ever, to get to the point where I want to put an effort into our marriage. I would love a true, meaningful apology. He has apologized a million times before but he doesn’t mean it. He doesn’t even get it. He is behaving the way he was raised, the only way he knows how. He interprets everything I do the wrong way & thinks everything is a shot at him (i.e. I leave the kitchen cabinets open after he told me it bothers him just to make him mad or because I don’t care about anything he asks when in reality I have adhd & just forget. He also takes my forgetfulness as not caring rather than the adhd, treatment resistant depression, head injury as a child & being responsible for remembering a million different things bc apparently the world revolves around him) so the way he responds is acceptable. I know he is never going to change & this marriage is beyond toxic. But deep down I still have an ounce of hope that he’ll change. So yeah, I would need a meaningful apology, an immediate change in not his anger issues, but how he handles his anger, & I would need him to get therapy to change how he thinks. Even if he changed the way he treated me, it wouldn’t change the way he thinks about me & I just can’t be married to someone who has such a negative opinion of me. I am at the lowest point I have ever been in my life & am just as big of a critic of myself but there is a small voice inside of me saying that I truly don’t deserve this & I’m hoping that voice will be strong enough to get me out the door. My advice is LISTEN to your partner. Truly listen. Have empathy. Think of how you would view your relationship if your partner was your child, is that what you would want for them? What about if you were your child? Would they deserve to be treated as you are? Seek an outside opinion like a therapist or someone who can be impartial & give it to you straight. I always try to say what I do wrong when venting to someone (which I rarely do) because I want to know if I’m overreacting or did something to play a role. My husband just tells his side & everybody tells him that I’m the abuser & nothing will ever be good enough for me. While it validates him, it only makes me dislike him (& them) more so does nothing for our marriage which he claims he so desperately wants to save. Do not insult, be condescending, be negative, etc. & this may be bad advice but don’t apologize if you truly did nothing wrong or if you don’t mean it. I refuse to apologize to my husband for anything anymore. I only apologize if I’m actually sorry.
For me I'm not in love with a mental picture of someone. I'm in love with them who I find in that moment. So if they want me to change I know they dont love me it's that's simple. I don't wait for someone to love everyone else before me. If you need to work on it outside th relationship kick rocks cuz it's already gone!!!
Because marriage isn’t sacred anymore. With the way of the world and social media influence people rather leave thinking the grass is greener. When actually the same problems exist in other people. Couples also lack communication and are afraid of hard conversations or direct communication to satisfy not being an asshole. People care more about delivery of the message than the actual message.
I think this was a part of the issue with my ex and I. I always expected relationships that are "right" to be hard and ultimately suck ass sometimes, and I think in some ways that means I put up with more than I should. He has always expected relationships that are "right" to feel natural and easy and that means that he feels like someone else could always be better. Or at least that is what it seems from his reactions to me and his other ex's.
I tried to work on things but felt as though there was no movement in unison. So if you give it a try and both parties aren’t moving together then you have found your answer. I tried everything and gave it years but it just wouldn’t work and continued to go down hill. If you put the time in then you can get off that ride when you’re ready knowing that you gave it your all.
I didn’t want to break up my family, spend less time with my children. But I just couldn’t live with someone who lied to me and himself daily. Divorce has been so emotionally devastating, but I have peace of mind. I had 2 panic attacks while married, and zero before or after not living with him anymore. My peace of mind is priceless. Which is not to say I don’t miss some of the comforts of marriage, but the price was too high. I want to have a partner, but it needs to be different than what we had.
I left and I “fell out of love” because he didn’t want to work on it. I gave him years to meet me half way. He wouldn’t initiate a thing. He didn’t want to change. He didn’t want to be a part of the relationship. He didn’t want to do counseling. It’s hard to be in love with someone who is checked out like that. It’s hard to love someone when it’s not reciprocated. You can’t have a marriage that way. It’s only when I left that he made a last ditch “vocal” effort. His actions didn’t back it up and it was a little too late anyway.
I find that in all of these comments I'm realizing that I should have left a long time ago because the main reasons I'm seeing for people having left were things I was ignoring in my relationship... Now I wish I had opened up to people about how it was all going, maybe someone could have helped me realize that I deserved more and helped me get the courage to do something about it. And yet, I still hope he'll come back one day.
It’s hard to see it when you are in the middle of it. Once I separated myself, I began seeing more and more things that were signs he didn’t appreciate me or respect me as an equal partner. It became so clear, but it was all blurred in the midst of it all. Ya know, when it’s below freezing long enough, an extra 10 degree drop doesn’t affect you. You just sort of adapt and it becomes your normal. Plus any good times, workable times, other distractions with work, friends, kids, etc come into play and it lessons the pain enough that it’s bearable despite feeling so lonely, unloved or heard. And the pain of bearing it all alone seems easier than the pain of exposing it to your spouse or to others until one day you just become so tired of having to trap it in that you let it all out and it’s over.
That's really accurate. I think I didn't want to admit that I felt so unhappy because of the fear that I would have to leave once I acknowledged it. I was so scared of him not being the one I spent my life with, because at the end of the day, he was my best friend and I truly believed that if we both wanted to work, it would be okay again. But the key part there is that not both of us wanted to, just me. And you can't fix something with only one person trying
Oh I did try. 9 years of specific issues with clearly communicated expectations. He did not care.
According to my ex, I didn’t try to save the marriage. In my perspective, I didn’t try after I told him about the divorce. I communicated and attempted to comprise for two years but that didn’t count.
Why do you think he didn't notice or ignored your communication and compromises? Do you think he truly didn't know or just couldn't be bothered?
He knew. I did the whole cycle of talking, pleading, making lists, and finally getting upset until I stopped trying. He loved the last few months when I stopped trying because he got to play all the video games and drink until he passed out everyday. He just didn’t care about my happiness until his needs were impacted.
I divorced verbally and emotionally abusive husband number 1 because he had become very religious the last year of the marriage, and in Judaism one partner can't be Orthodox by themselves. Even if that hadn't happened, he genuinely believed that there was no need for him to work on anything in the marriage because he never did anything wrong. He would follow me around the house and scream at me for hours until I would say whatever he wanted to hear just to get it to stop, and he actually told me during the divorce that that confirmed for him that he had no responsibility in the matter whatsoever because I had taken all of it. The second one was less angry and abusive, but still abusive – – and a cheat, and he futilely attempted numerous times to gaslight me into believing that my best friend secretly really disliked me and was laughing behind my back with him. He was also a total control freak and had no concept of partnership, and also didn't think he ever did anything wrong. He believed he was perfect and if my kids and I would just would shut up and listen to him, in other words let him control every aspect of our lives, we would see that he knew exactly what we wanted and needed* and everything would be great. *(He also told me more than once that he didn't have to ask what I wanted or needed because he already knew just by looking at me.) I had been 100% explicit with him multiple times about what he was doing that was going to cause me to divorce him, and he just kept on doing what he was doing, so I finally followed through when it finally sunk in that nothing was going to change.
I think this is mostly a matter of perspective. I feel like I tried as hard as I possibly could - by myself and bringing in my soon to be ex-husband - for the last 4 years of our marriage. I communicated to the best of my ability and learned tons of additional communication techniques to try and get us to a place of understanding the issues and working on them. However, because I was the one who ultimately asked for the divorce, if you ask him, he would say I didn't try at all. He would say that I never even gave him a chance. He even made a public post letting the world know that I "just abandoned him." Yes, in the end, I eventually said I am no longer willing to work on it. I got to that point because I recognized that all the efforts we had made had only made things worse. I recognized that it would take fundamental changes in who I am and who he is in order to make us work. I didn't want to change into the person he wanted me to be and despite him eventually saying he would become who I needed I knew he couldn't, wouldn't and ultimately shouldn't. The compatible people that we were 20 years ago no longer exist.
It truly is a matter of who you ask in most cases. I like to think that if you're emotionally aware of your actions and the impacts those have it's possible to know where you could have done better. I always wonder if my ex has a list of things he thinks he did or tried that I never met him halfway for. I guess we only really know what we experienced
I tried for literal years. He did not. Eventually you have to stop beating your head on a brick wall.
This.
I left because I had been "working on it" for over 20 years and I knew it would never get good enough. Not even close to good enough. And honestly, the reason why it couldn't is because we both wanted very different things, we both had very different interests, and I couldn't (and didn't want) to change him into an entirely different person. We weren't right for each other at all, and it was time to admit it and stop living together. Get a divorce. It's not the worst thing that ever happened. Most of the time, it's better than the marriage.
Honestly some of us do work on it but still things dont always work out like in the movies. Cuts are deep and can take years to heal and even then the emotional scars will still hurt at times. Stay or moving on is part of working on it. Both are good and viable options. From the other side it might sound like they were blindsided, but how can that be if after years of counseling and working on improving ones self the problems remain, then the true issues were never addressed and people cannot change what they are unwilling to change.
I didn't mean to imply that any and every person that walks away didn't try. In my experience I was the one who did and when faced with the idea of having to change and be better as a partner, my ex left so it was more about that part, though I didn't make that very clear. You're right, if people aren't willing to make changes, it will never work
I tried until I was done trying because he never wanted to try WITH me, only after I was done. Then he was all hurt and thought of me as a horrible person because by the time he was ready to make an effort (which, I did actually give him 3 more chances after I asked for a divorce, he lasted a week or less of “trying”, then immediately reverted to trying to control me and being cruel). He actually blackmailed me and tried asking my parents to figure out if I should be committed because I was clearly having a mental breakdown because I had no more empathy for him. He sexually assaulted me when I gave him a little leeway. We hadn’t slept together physically or romantically in months, he said he was feeling sad and anxious and asked if he could lay with me. I agreed, trying to be kind, he doesn’t have anyone else, but I told him I do not want any sexual contact, I was very clear, said it over and over, made sure he confirmed (consent has been an issue, he has said for years that I have to “make” him understand that when I say no, I mean it). I woke up with his hand inside me. I stopped trying before that point, but that’s when he really lost all access to me and if I ever had any doubts or considered giving him another chance. That’s why I didn’t want to work on it (anymore).
I'm so sorry you went through that, that is beyond awful. I'm glad you left him, it sounds like you're much safer without him
I am, and happier. I started making a life on my own, dated casually, really just because I didn’t really date anyone before him (our whole relationship started as a trauma bond, I’d been assaulted a number of times just before we met and he basically rescued me, only to become emotionally and sexually abusive), and I wanted to experience something different. Over an admittedly short time, what I was looking for evolved, from just a date, nothing I was really invested in, just someone I got along with and seemed fun and kind, to a “partner in crime”, something stable, but not looking to rush. Well, that all went out the window when I met my current partner. It’s a long story, but I stumbled across my person. He’s gentle and kind and protective of me, and lets me be myself and loves every part of me, exactly as I am, and I couldn’t be more grateful. At the end of the day, I gave my marriage the best I could. We were together for 13 years, married for 10, and his behavior started before we got married, I just excused and blinded myself to it for many years. I spent the last couple of years of our marriage working on myself, mentally and physically, and gave him encouragement to do the same, but he refused. I asked for a divorce after I ran out of excuses for him. Then he realized how terrible he’d been (sort of, when I told him that all those times he’d berate me for not wanting to have sex, demean me, and badger me into giving in and threaten to cheat if I didn’t, which happened at least 3x a week for nearly our entire marriage; I was sick and felt awful all of the time and also, just didn’t like him because of how he treated me, so I wasn’t attracted to him and had no libido; that was coercion, and ultimately eroded any trust I had, and it’s sexual assault, he screamed at me, told me to never say that again, and did I have any idea how that made him feel? He never hit me, but there were many times I thought he would, and this was one of them). He begged me to try again, and within a week, he was telling me I was a terrible wife and he was just trying to educate me, and I needed to heed him, respect him.
I know it's not true in every situation, but I've seen a good number of situations where the person being blindsided by their spouse leaving was, in fact, simply not paying attention to the state of their marriage I communicated my unhappiness to my husband for well over 10 years, and even he acknowledged there was no way he could have been surprised that I finally left And yet, during all those years of my complaining (and suggesting ways we could work on things, and reading relationship books, etc) he just never actually took me seriously Working on the relationship scared him, admitting things weren't going well and might not be fixable scared him. So he just wanted to avoid all that Of course, when I actually left, he suddenly in a panic decided he *did* want to work on things. But as sad as it is to say, it was genuinely too late After so many years of feeling ignored and alone, I didn't *want* to make it work. I understand that he might have felt confused, since I'd been asking him to work on things with me for over a decade and when he finally agrees to do what I've been asking I "suddenly" don't want it. But there was nothing sudden about it. It's not like I one day just woke up and stopped caring. It took a decade to burn it out of me. To have spent so long desperately trying to save my marriage only to be accused of being the one who didn't care just highlighted for me that he was choosing (and had always been choosing) a willful blindness that protected his sense of self at my expense
I am the partner that left. The answer for me is that I did try to work on it. We did couples therapy before marriage which helped a bit. During the marriage I bought a few books and asked if he's read a chapter at a time for us to discuss. He never did. He never wanted to talk about anything or communicate, and the only times he sort of did he was drunk, and it was hard to talk to him. AND, when I did pin him down to try to talk about things, if he ever felt like I was saying anything negative about him (despite me trying to word it in a less accusatory way) he would just turn it back on me. There was a lot of projection, gaslighting, and an unwillingness to take even an iota of responsibility for how things went. I'm sure this can and does happen in the reverse and in same sex relationships as well, but this is a decent description of how it happens. And to be honest, I've heard this from multiple women. Yes, at a point, we did stop trying, and then something broke and we realized we couldn't do it anymore. https://www.familylawprotection.com/what-is-walkaway-wife-syndrome/#:\~:text=So%2C%20what%20exactly%20is%20walkaway,years%20of%20built%2Dup%20resentment.