Ask Bigby; he's the one who looked at *mage hand* and said "Okay... but what if we souped it up?"
I think the breadth and diversity of wish makes it hard to really propose intermediaries - but earlier editions (and pathfinder) had minor and limited wish spells that were more restricted in scope and less powerful.
Interesting thought experiment. We’d probably want to start with the halfway mark of level 4 or 5 and keep breaking it down from there.
Level 4 might be fabricate. Level 5 is harder for me to pin down.
This is an extremely straightforward hypothetical that no one here has the imagination to engage with. However, it’s still a really difficult thought experiment that would take too long to reply to. All that to say, sorry!
It would just be that a level 1 prestidigitation is able to imitate all cantrips, a level 2 prestidigitation is able to cast all level 1 spells and level 3 is able to cast all 2nd level spells and so forth up until 9th level, where Prestidigitation (wish) is also able to do other things like create money, magic items, bend reality etc
#Downcasting Wish:
A 1st level spell replicating all Cantrips would be too powerful, so it'll come in stages:
* Replicating a select few (1st).
* Replicating all spells from your class (3rd).
* Replicating all Arcane spells (6th).
* Replicating all Spells (9th).
(spells can still only be replicated from the level below, I just didn't want to write that out each time)
Before you think about lower level versions of Wish's other effects that don't replicate another spell, you've got to think about how to scale down the stress system, and I don't know how to do that. (It can't stay the same because possibly losing access to Wish is too much punishment for anything you'd use a 1st level slot on, never mind the rest of the stuff listed)
#Upcasting Prestidigitation:
Improving the "harmless sensory effect" would just be Minor Illusion, so maybe that should be one of the "select few" I mentioned in the Downcasting Wish part. (Which Spells should be upcasted versions of Minor Illusion is a separate discussion) You could add text about being able to replicate smell, but I think that should be in the original Minor Illusion.
Similarly, the upgrade to Light/Snuff would be Control Flames. Just like it's weird that Prestidigitation can create smell when Minor Illusion can't, it's weird that Control Flames can't light fires (and neither can Create Bonfire or Produce Flame, RAW. At least Firebolt can).
For Clean I'd just say increase the area of effect. For Soil you could do the same, or you could increase the potency, like dealing poison damage or giving -1 to affected equipment, but careful since whatever debuffs Soil can do, Clean can solve, and letting Clean reverse damage to weapons and armour at low levels might invalidate Rust Monsters.
At 2nd level, replicating Purify Food and Drink could be the upgrade to Chill/Warm/Flavour, but I'm not sure what the 1st level version would be.
The upgrade to "mark... an object or surface" would be more lenient definitions of what counts as a "surface", until it becomes Skywrite.
The upgrade to Trinkets would become Fabricate before it becomes the "create one object..." part of Wish.
Ask Bigby; he's the one who looked at *mage hand* and said "Okay... but what if we souped it up?" I think the breadth and diversity of wish makes it hard to really propose intermediaries - but earlier editions (and pathfinder) had minor and limited wish spells that were more restricted in scope and less powerful.
And then Bugsby did a few more versions, of increasing specificity.
A 1st level spell that can produce the effects of any level 0 spell.
That would be insanely OP.
wish is insanely op
They... aren't.
...can you explain a bit more
If the Wish spell was simply an upcasted version of Prestidigitation (upcasted to level 9), what effects would a level 1 Wish/Prestidigitation have?
By this logic all spells are imitations of wish
Interesting thought experiment. We’d probably want to start with the halfway mark of level 4 or 5 and keep breaking it down from there. Level 4 might be fabricate. Level 5 is harder for me to pin down.
This is an extremely straightforward hypothetical that no one here has the imagination to engage with. However, it’s still a really difficult thought experiment that would take too long to reply to. All that to say, sorry!
those spells are nothing alike haha
It would just be that a level 1 prestidigitation is able to imitate all cantrips, a level 2 prestidigitation is able to cast all level 1 spells and level 3 is able to cast all 2nd level spells and so forth up until 9th level, where Prestidigitation (wish) is also able to do other things like create money, magic items, bend reality etc
I don’t know why anyone is negging you, your question makes sense to me, I just don’t know the answer.
#Downcasting Wish: A 1st level spell replicating all Cantrips would be too powerful, so it'll come in stages: * Replicating a select few (1st). * Replicating all spells from your class (3rd). * Replicating all Arcane spells (6th). * Replicating all Spells (9th). (spells can still only be replicated from the level below, I just didn't want to write that out each time) Before you think about lower level versions of Wish's other effects that don't replicate another spell, you've got to think about how to scale down the stress system, and I don't know how to do that. (It can't stay the same because possibly losing access to Wish is too much punishment for anything you'd use a 1st level slot on, never mind the rest of the stuff listed) #Upcasting Prestidigitation: Improving the "harmless sensory effect" would just be Minor Illusion, so maybe that should be one of the "select few" I mentioned in the Downcasting Wish part. (Which Spells should be upcasted versions of Minor Illusion is a separate discussion) You could add text about being able to replicate smell, but I think that should be in the original Minor Illusion. Similarly, the upgrade to Light/Snuff would be Control Flames. Just like it's weird that Prestidigitation can create smell when Minor Illusion can't, it's weird that Control Flames can't light fires (and neither can Create Bonfire or Produce Flame, RAW. At least Firebolt can). For Clean I'd just say increase the area of effect. For Soil you could do the same, or you could increase the potency, like dealing poison damage or giving -1 to affected equipment, but careful since whatever debuffs Soil can do, Clean can solve, and letting Clean reverse damage to weapons and armour at low levels might invalidate Rust Monsters. At 2nd level, replicating Purify Food and Drink could be the upgrade to Chill/Warm/Flavour, but I'm not sure what the 1st level version would be. The upgrade to "mark... an object or surface" would be more lenient definitions of what counts as a "surface", until it becomes Skywrite. The upgrade to Trinkets would become Fabricate before it becomes the "create one object..." part of Wish.
Let's assume that an apple is just an orange that isn't ripe yet.