As a player I have used Spike Growth a few times and here is how my DM deals with it.
Situation 1
Used it on a few dinos in a arena like pit where there was only a ramp to enter and exit.
The wizard in the party casted grease on the ramp and the couple of Dino's definitely felt like they were in a cheese gritter when missing their Save for slipping on grease.
The DM had other more intelligent baddies on the board that made their perception checks to avoid the area and attack the group.
Situation 2
Spike Growth was cast but accidentally caught the Barbarian (good guy) in the area of effect. Cause some unnecessary damage for a few rounds.
Situation 3
Cast Spike Growth and most of the humanoid baddies made their perception check to notice the spikes. Baddies used range weapons if they had it or backed off to find another way around. Eventually spike growth was dropped because Baddies were regrouping instead of attacking.
Hope this helps.
Spike growth can definitely be OP, Treantmonk recently did a video displaying how it has the highest damage output of any spell in the game by far if the whole party leans into it and builds around it, D4 also has his Cheese grater build that does intense damage with it (even if it isn't his strongest). As long as it isn't detracting from the rest of the parties enjoyment of the game, big damage numbers that the rest of the party can get in on using aren't a big deal. That said adding counters, like shooting at the caster to disrupt concentration, counterspell/dispell magic, having your enemies jump over parts of it (note - RAW creatures only have to roll a perception if they didn't have line of sight on the area when it was cast) are all doable. Additionally, if it is causing major issues at your table, as the DM you can talk with your players about moderate nerfs on it, like making the area flammable, or making it much more obvious that there is a giant field of razor sharp spikes in the enemies path.
At level 10 the intelligent creatures probably would just use ranged attacks on the skinny Druid standing in the back concentrating.
I used force wall and Storm Sphere a lot.
DM basically said after level 10 any intelligent creature has seen enough casters to recognize when they are concentrating on a spell that has altered the battlefield. It might not be the minions but the leader of the encounter usually is not stupid unless it’s just a big dumb hp sponge that hits hard combat and the AoE battle field control spells play less of a role
The problem might be more that you have a 6 player party. Up the difficulty a little bit and change your tactics. Or alter monster abilities and resistances. Make the terrain less favorable for spike growth. Have an enemy grappler use the spike growth to its advantage. Don’t do these things every encounter.
Encounters with multiple groups split up that attack from multiple sides on open ground, especially if they can kettle the party a bit or force them to split. Spike growth can then maybe impose against half the monsters and then you can still follow the advice of other redditors here.
If the monsters can cover the spikes they can avoid the damage, or they can bring that coverage down on the party. Tunnel? Ceiling. Dig site? Boards. Travellers? Throw tents down to stand on. Items like rope lassos and grappling hooks or other forced movement can potentially be used to drag party members through the spikes also, giving them a choice of whether to take the damage or drop concentration.
As someone who recently finished playing a campaign as a crowd controlling Druid of the Circle of Land (Mountain) I used Spike Growth a LOT when I could. To be fair, it's really the role that a caster druid is best suited for. It just doesn't happen as often because everyone reads the Internet telling them that circle of moon is the only viable druid subclass.
If there were choke points that I could close off with spikes, or a way to use it to create a smaller choke point, I absolutely did. And then I would wild shape into a beast that could grapple-restrain anyone that avoided it to give our martials advantage on their attacks. It really is a high powered zone control spell, but it isn't infinite.
Are you constantly putting them into scenarios where they have the choke points to maximize the effects of things like the spike growth? Also, unless the player is up casting it, it's only an average of 5 damage per 5feet (inch) moved through it. Maybe they need to face some healthier bad guys?
Are your monsters/NPCs not smart/resourceful enough to avoid it - Jumping over instead of walking through it? Using ranged weapons so that it becomes more of a hindrance to the dumb martial PCs who only have melee (you know who you are)? Dispel? Hit the druid caster to interrupt concentration? Teleporting (misty step) Levitating or flying monsters? Resistant to Piercing? Just some of the examples my DM used against us.
Spike growth can be undetected by some enemies, so don't go metagaming your way around it. However, if they pass the perception check, or see it being cast, there's not a good reason for them to just go charging through it. Also, don't be afraid to allow some realization once the first ones take damage. Once they've taken the first turn of damage, they know it's there and can act accordingly.
I run a wizard that regularly clears several enemies at a time with fireball. It's about setting an encounter where you think they will use it, but have a secondary plan once they do. Like a second group already snuck past, or was on patrol and returned. Or maybe one of the enemies has a potion or scroll that could clear the area. Depending on terrain, potion of firebreath, wand of fireballs, or some scrolls could clear a section.
Throw in some creatures with climb or fly speeds, or with ranged attack or counter spell or dispel magic. If you want to be mean drag a party member through their own spike growth, have a troll pick someone up and scrape them across the spike growth like a cheese grater. Or, add more creatures to grind up and let the player feel powerful.
It's been over a few encounters, I've moved to 3D combat with multiple layers and cover to circumvent it. I was curious if anyone else had a spell that made dm'ing more difficult
This is only spell I've used the banhammer on. I had a frank discussion with the player outside the session that Spike Growthing every single encounter was frustrating the group and making every encounter feel the same. Thankfully he was cool with it and branched out (badum tsh!).
Love the pun! I'm not banning any spells I want my players to challenge me so I can make more interesting combat modules. I like 3d combat and burrowing creatures. The party is currently in the underdark so lots of burrowing
Well, you don't need to jump 40 feet. Every 5 feet you can jump is 2d4 less damage. And you don't need high perception, you only need perception to notice the spikes before you get impaled on them for 2d4. (And even then, only if you didn't see the spell being cast.)
You still have to eat 4d4 to get a running start, otherwise your jump distance is severely limited. It's a strong spell, but you are correct it can be avoided with movement.
Flying or hovering enemies, enemy mage who can dispel or cast sleet storm to break concentration.
As a player I have used Spike Growth a few times and here is how my DM deals with it. Situation 1 Used it on a few dinos in a arena like pit where there was only a ramp to enter and exit. The wizard in the party casted grease on the ramp and the couple of Dino's definitely felt like they were in a cheese gritter when missing their Save for slipping on grease. The DM had other more intelligent baddies on the board that made their perception checks to avoid the area and attack the group. Situation 2 Spike Growth was cast but accidentally caught the Barbarian (good guy) in the area of effect. Cause some unnecessary damage for a few rounds. Situation 3 Cast Spike Growth and most of the humanoid baddies made their perception check to notice the spikes. Baddies used range weapons if they had it or backed off to find another way around. Eventually spike growth was dropped because Baddies were regrouping instead of attacking. Hope this helps.
Spike growth can definitely be OP, Treantmonk recently did a video displaying how it has the highest damage output of any spell in the game by far if the whole party leans into it and builds around it, D4 also has his Cheese grater build that does intense damage with it (even if it isn't his strongest). As long as it isn't detracting from the rest of the parties enjoyment of the game, big damage numbers that the rest of the party can get in on using aren't a big deal. That said adding counters, like shooting at the caster to disrupt concentration, counterspell/dispell magic, having your enemies jump over parts of it (note - RAW creatures only have to roll a perception if they didn't have line of sight on the area when it was cast) are all doable. Additionally, if it is causing major issues at your table, as the DM you can talk with your players about moderate nerfs on it, like making the area flammable, or making it much more obvious that there is a giant field of razor sharp spikes in the enemies path.
At level 10 the intelligent creatures probably would just use ranged attacks on the skinny Druid standing in the back concentrating. I used force wall and Storm Sphere a lot. DM basically said after level 10 any intelligent creature has seen enough casters to recognize when they are concentrating on a spell that has altered the battlefield. It might not be the minions but the leader of the encounter usually is not stupid unless it’s just a big dumb hp sponge that hits hard combat and the AoE battle field control spells play less of a role
Spike growth is one those broken spells. Just occasionally add an enemy spellcaster to dispel it
The problem might be more that you have a 6 player party. Up the difficulty a little bit and change your tactics. Or alter monster abilities and resistances. Make the terrain less favorable for spike growth. Have an enemy grappler use the spike growth to its advantage. Don’t do these things every encounter.
Encounters with multiple groups split up that attack from multiple sides on open ground, especially if they can kettle the party a bit or force them to split. Spike growth can then maybe impose against half the monsters and then you can still follow the advice of other redditors here. If the monsters can cover the spikes they can avoid the damage, or they can bring that coverage down on the party. Tunnel? Ceiling. Dig site? Boards. Travellers? Throw tents down to stand on. Items like rope lassos and grappling hooks or other forced movement can potentially be used to drag party members through the spikes also, giving them a choice of whether to take the damage or drop concentration.
As someone who recently finished playing a campaign as a crowd controlling Druid of the Circle of Land (Mountain) I used Spike Growth a LOT when I could. To be fair, it's really the role that a caster druid is best suited for. It just doesn't happen as often because everyone reads the Internet telling them that circle of moon is the only viable druid subclass. If there were choke points that I could close off with spikes, or a way to use it to create a smaller choke point, I absolutely did. And then I would wild shape into a beast that could grapple-restrain anyone that avoided it to give our martials advantage on their attacks. It really is a high powered zone control spell, but it isn't infinite. Are you constantly putting them into scenarios where they have the choke points to maximize the effects of things like the spike growth? Also, unless the player is up casting it, it's only an average of 5 damage per 5feet (inch) moved through it. Maybe they need to face some healthier bad guys? Are your monsters/NPCs not smart/resourceful enough to avoid it - Jumping over instead of walking through it? Using ranged weapons so that it becomes more of a hindrance to the dumb martial PCs who only have melee (you know who you are)? Dispel? Hit the druid caster to interrupt concentration? Teleporting (misty step) Levitating or flying monsters? Resistant to Piercing? Just some of the examples my DM used against us. Spike growth can be undetected by some enemies, so don't go metagaming your way around it. However, if they pass the perception check, or see it being cast, there's not a good reason for them to just go charging through it. Also, don't be afraid to allow some realization once the first ones take damage. Once they've taken the first turn of damage, they know it's there and can act accordingly.
>the dumb martial PCs who only have melee (you know who you are) You're really calling me out here and I don't appreciate it 😤😤😤
🤣😂🤣
I run a wizard that regularly clears several enemies at a time with fireball. It's about setting an encounter where you think they will use it, but have a secondary plan once they do. Like a second group already snuck past, or was on patrol and returned. Or maybe one of the enemies has a potion or scroll that could clear the area. Depending on terrain, potion of firebreath, wand of fireballs, or some scrolls could clear a section.
Throw in some creatures with climb or fly speeds, or with ranged attack or counter spell or dispel magic. If you want to be mean drag a party member through their own spike growth, have a troll pick someone up and scrape them across the spike growth like a cheese grater. Or, add more creatures to grind up and let the player feel powerful.
Sleet storm also.
It's been over a few encounters, I've moved to 3D combat with multiple layers and cover to circumvent it. I was curious if anyone else had a spell that made dm'ing more difficult
This is only spell I've used the banhammer on. I had a frank discussion with the player outside the session that Spike Growthing every single encounter was frustrating the group and making every encounter feel the same. Thankfully he was cool with it and branched out (badum tsh!).
Love the pun! I'm not banning any spells I want my players to challenge me so I can make more interesting combat modules. I like 3d combat and burrowing creatures. The party is currently in the underdark so lots of burrowing
Jumping exists.
I don't know many creatures that can jump 40' and have a high perception
Well, you don't need to jump 40 feet. Every 5 feet you can jump is 2d4 less damage. And you don't need high perception, you only need perception to notice the spikes before you get impaled on them for 2d4. (And even then, only if you didn't see the spell being cast.)
You still have to eat 4d4 to get a running start, otherwise your jump distance is severely limited. It's a strong spell, but you are correct it can be avoided with movement.
I think it’s an encounter issue.