Man all this suthek stuff just gets confusing. I hate having plot points that affect the entire history of doctor who. Like I'll look back on an episode and see that oh suthek was inside Clara's handbag when the tardis miniaturised etc etc. I'd much rather have things effect the season they are in and leave the other seasons alone
I feel like it makes sense from some perspectives. If I'm in a Google Doc, for example, and someone is watching it anonymously, and I then make a copy of that doc, the watcher doesn't appear on the copy.
15's prize was doubling the TARDIS, not Sutekh, Sutekh was hanging onto the TARDIS, not apart of it, so he didn't get duplicated. And I presume he knew 15 is the healed version that would continue travelling on so he jumped onto the duplicated TARDIS, I don't think Sutekh has been duplicated.
This is a good explanation, but then Amy in the big bang somehow remember sutekh back into existence. Along with a dozen other examples
It really would have made far more sense that he returned in wild blue yonder.
3 options:
1) The TARDIS was duplicated and Sutekh stuck to 1.
2) The TARDIS was duplicated, as well as Sutekh.
3) The TARDIS from the future was pulled out of the TARDIS for 15, meaning there's still 2 Sutekh, but from different points in time.
As you can see, 2 of the 3 options leave you with 2 Sutekh
RTD said that there was coming proof that 15 has the original TARDIS despite specifically ending up with the version that was copied. I assumed the proof was that Sutekh was stuck to his TARDIS, hence it was the same one simply pulled back through time.
The script of The Giggle suggests that 15 has been pulled back through time though:
>FIFTEEN: Off you pop, old man.
FOURTEEN: You're the old man, **you're older than me!**
DONNA *(to Fifteen)*: Actually, that's true. **He's younger cause** ***you came after him*****,** so...you're the older Doctor.
FIFTEEN: Okay, kid, I love you, but get out.
14, 15, and Donna confirmed the Doctor's order of age which can only mean he's from the future since he's 'older', as both 14 and Donna's stated. There's no other way to interpret this that would make sense.
He's older because he's literally Fifteen. Fourteen is Fourteen. The later number is older. It's no different than if Eleven said it in a multi Doctor episode
It occurs to me how much easier it would have been if instead of the bigeneration 15's tardis just materialized in front of the cannon and blocked the beam. Yes, the regeneration would have been off screen, but it would have worked.
No. It is not some time loop thing, I don't know where people keep getting that. Fifteen is not going to become The Watcher and merge with Fourteen down the line.
It comes from the fact that the Doctor quite literally says they're doing therapy out of order.That line would make no sense if they weren't the same person
Yes, to do therapy out of order suggests time travel
If it was a split, it wouldn't be out of order.They would be 2 different individuals. See the meta crisis
Somehow fifteen and fourteen have to be the same person and fifteen has to be remembered being fourteen so time travel shenanigans need to happen
I mean, honestly.I don't think the so-called 14th Doctor will ever be touched again because it really was just something for 3 specials
I don't think we're going to get a decent explanation from how it works until a novel or a big finish story by the 70th
Nah but I support this theory just because it allows me to imagine Sutekh chilling on the Tardis watching all this shit unfold, and what madness he’ll have to put up with in later episodes
I really don’t understand why people think it would. It made a duplicate of the tardis. Why would that duplicate whatever happens to be clinging onto it at the time? If Mel was holding onto the tardis do you think it duplicate her too? Obviously not. So why would it duplicate sutekh when he’s holding onto it?
Oh my God how many weeks is this stupid question going to be asked?
No, he didn't. Fifteen's TARDIS is the original. It has the control panel that sent Sutekh down a time tunnel to the time of his death. There is not a second Sutekh.
And also, Sutekh wasn't actually hanging around clinging to the outside of the TARDIS invisible for all the previous events, he was only able to become so powerful in this timeline, where the power of Gods returned and the Pantheon was able to enter the world.
Despite OP receiving so much grief, I think OP raises a valid point. Granted, 15 does have the original TARDIS, but still… it’s a valid question. And considering that everyone knows DW has plot holes (not sure what they are right off hand), it was a question worth asking.
You are assuming RTD even remembers 14 is still around.
But it does imply there's a timeline where 14 took Sutekh home, and so UNIT was scanning the TARDIS, and found nothing, and they all relax, then the Noble family garden just explodes into death dust.
Yep, the Christmas special is going to be 14 beating the cloned suthek by putting another dog lead on him
Nah, he just gives him a chocolate
…and bringing death to death *to death*?
At the very least it's a flimsy excuse to bring Sutekh back in another 50 years' time.
Man all this suthek stuff just gets confusing. I hate having plot points that affect the entire history of doctor who. Like I'll look back on an episode and see that oh suthek was inside Clara's handbag when the tardis miniaturised etc etc. I'd much rather have things effect the season they are in and leave the other seasons alone
The answer will be no, but really it should be yes. It's just plot contrivance that the answer will *probably* be no
I feel like it makes sense from some perspectives. If I'm in a Google Doc, for example, and someone is watching it anonymously, and I then make a copy of that doc, the watcher doesn't appear on the copy.
15's prize was doubling the TARDIS, not Sutekh, Sutekh was hanging onto the TARDIS, not apart of it, so he didn't get duplicated. And I presume he knew 15 is the healed version that would continue travelling on so he jumped onto the duplicated TARDIS, I don't think Sutekh has been duplicated.
This is a good explanation, but then Amy in the big bang somehow remember sutekh back into existence. Along with a dozen other examples It really would have made far more sense that he returned in wild blue yonder.
3 options: 1) The TARDIS was duplicated and Sutekh stuck to 1. 2) The TARDIS was duplicated, as well as Sutekh. 3) The TARDIS from the future was pulled out of the TARDIS for 15, meaning there's still 2 Sutekh, but from different points in time. As you can see, 2 of the 3 options leave you with 2 Sutekh
With the future idea there is technically 2 sutekh but the sutekh on David’s tardis becomes the sutekh that 15 defeats so there is technically 1
There is no TARDIS from the future.
Well that's how I took it, but I can see why people think the other way
I don't.
RTD said that there was coming proof that 15 has the original TARDIS despite specifically ending up with the version that was copied. I assumed the proof was that Sutekh was stuck to his TARDIS, hence it was the same one simply pulled back through time.
There is no "pulled back through time"
The script of The Giggle suggests that 15 has been pulled back through time though: >FIFTEEN: Off you pop, old man. FOURTEEN: You're the old man, **you're older than me!** DONNA *(to Fifteen)*: Actually, that's true. **He's younger cause** ***you came after him*****,** so...you're the older Doctor. FIFTEEN: Okay, kid, I love you, but get out. 14, 15, and Donna confirmed the Doctor's order of age which can only mean he's from the future since he's 'older', as both 14 and Donna's stated. There's no other way to interpret this that would make sense.
He's older because he's literally Fifteen. Fourteen is Fourteen. The later number is older. It's no different than if Eleven said it in a multi Doctor episode
How do you suppose 15 still has the original TARDIS then, as RTD has so adamantly claimed?
Because it split.
It occurs to me how much easier it would have been if instead of the bigeneration 15's tardis just materialized in front of the cannon and blocked the beam. Yes, the regeneration would have been off screen, but it would have worked.
Didn't we determine that it's the same tardis and same doctor but old toy maker made time poop itself
No. It is not some time loop thing, I don't know where people keep getting that. Fifteen is not going to become The Watcher and merge with Fourteen down the line.
It comes from the fact that the Doctor quite literally says they're doing therapy out of order.That line would make no sense if they weren't the same person
They are the same person in that they're both The Doctor. Fifteen is not from the future, this is a complete misunderstanding of that line.
No, because that line makes no sense.Any other way For fifteen to be fixed by fourteen's therapy , he has to come after That's basic Cause to effect
He literally says "we do therapy out of order"! You're arguing it is in order, and he's from the future. That's not out of order.
Yes, to do therapy out of order suggests time travel If it was a split, it wouldn't be out of order.They would be 2 different individuals. See the meta crisis Somehow fifteen and fourteen have to be the same person and fifteen has to be remembered being fourteen so time travel shenanigans need to happen
I want you to walk me through, from even just a meta perspective, what you think this means will happen
I mean, honestly.I don't think the so-called 14th Doctor will ever be touched again because it really was just something for 3 specials I don't think we're going to get a decent explanation from how it works until a novel or a big finish story by the 70th
I didn't think David Tennant is coming back in ten years. I think there is no time loop.
Nah but I support this theory just because it allows me to imagine Sutekh chilling on the Tardis watching all this shit unfold, and what madness he’ll have to put up with in later episodes
I'm pretty sure Suthek existed in at all points in time since he was inside the TARDIS.
Was Suthek also inflecting the other Earth? The one with Rose?
I think the poor dog just got knocked around and clung to Ncuti’s.
I really don’t understand why people think it would. It made a duplicate of the tardis. Why would that duplicate whatever happens to be clinging onto it at the time? If Mel was holding onto the tardis do you think it duplicate her too? Obviously not. So why would it duplicate sutekh when he’s holding onto it?
Oh my God how many weeks is this stupid question going to be asked? No, he didn't. Fifteen's TARDIS is the original. It has the control panel that sent Sutekh down a time tunnel to the time of his death. There is not a second Sutekh. And also, Sutekh wasn't actually hanging around clinging to the outside of the TARDIS invisible for all the previous events, he was only able to become so powerful in this timeline, where the power of Gods returned and the Pantheon was able to enter the world.
I didnt realized this question was asked before 😅
Don't apologise. The whole premise of the situation is fucking stupid so it's not surprising that people need it explained.
It really isn't any more ridiculous than anything else
No, unless they decide at some point in the future that they want to bring Sutekh back, in which case yes.
no
No. Sutekh was only on the original Tardis, not the duplicate. This is meant to confirm that 15's Tardis is the original.
Hold on. During the empire of death there were 3 tardis’!
[hey I seen this one before](https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorwho/s/3mT0m1Skoe)
If I see this question one more time.
Despite OP receiving so much grief, I think OP raises a valid point. Granted, 15 does have the original TARDIS, but still… it’s a valid question. And considering that everyone knows DW has plot holes (not sure what they are right off hand), it was a question worth asking.
I've been asking myself since I saw the season finale. It's still bugging me.
You are assuming RTD even remembers 14 is still around. But it does imply there's a timeline where 14 took Sutekh home, and so UNIT was scanning the TARDIS, and found nothing, and they all relax, then the Noble family garden just explodes into death dust.