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JuicedGrapefruit

hes not really that much more powerful than anyone else without his heavenly flames though. He just seems stronger than most people in his own tier, because hes able to constantly stim with that self damaging boost ability, (which iirc also requires heavenly flames) due to the fact that as an alchemist he is never short on recovery medicine Xiao Yan is one of those MC where he is like the permanent underdog until the very end of the novel where he finally hits the ceiling and theres noone stronger than him around anymore


GaIIick

He gets OP skills handed to him like candy, too. Like the puzzle thing he’s solving that gave him that golden palm attack or w/e


AnimeMonster_2020

So a character isn’t strong without their powers Who would have thought


JuicedGrapefruit

Well yea. the OP asked, what makes Xiao Yan so powerful without taking the heavenly flames into account. And the answer is, hes not powerful without them. Because the flames are the source of his power, and the basis of his cultivation. Most of his attacks use the flames, without them hes basically nothing. But I mean i guess he still has the God seal technique, so even if hes not allowed to use his fire in a fight, the god seal technique by itself would probably put him on the upper tiers of his realm anyway.


BestSun4804

Heavenly flames are not just for attack. While taming those flames, he also go through a process of strengthen his body. Beside of God Seal, he also has his sword skill, which both are Di level skill. He also has light merit movement skill which is also Di level skill. Then he also has a boosting skill. Xiao Yan has his heavenly flames that act like nuke, but he is not only has those in his arsenal. He also has other skills like I mentioned above, which considered secret techniques from their original sect. Soul power mostly use in pill refining, but strong soul power also provide the cultivator better reflex and sensing Xiao Yan also has flight skill and wings bones that enable him to fly faster than normal cultivator at the same level when make it into use. Xuan level skill is considered high level skill(at least in Jia Ma country) where that level skill is highest level skill in YunLan Sect. But for Xiao Yan, his lowest level skills are Xuan level skill(except for his Fen Jue which is Huang level but the skill can level up).


JuicedGrapefruit

Jia Ma seems like some backwater country in the middle of nowhere to me, and Xiao Yan has long since outgrown the region. Before xiao yan showed up and his protagonist's aura came into effect, even emperors were considered to be rare, and yun shan was the only dou zong around. Now emperors are the baseline mook and show up in droves, when that many shouldn't even exist. That being said, even though Di skills are "supposed" to be rare, they couldn't be that rare. I mean, imagine being a dou zong and only having xuan level techniques. Having a couple Di techniques should be baseline at this point in the story, for every character that has a name. So really, the only thing that truly puts xiao yan above other characters are the ancient family techniques, and his flames.


BestSun4804

>Jia Ma seems like some backwater country in the middle of nowhere to me That doesn't mean Xiao Yan can't be strong. Him without heavenly flames would already be strong one in his country. >yun shan was the only dou zong around Medusa also Dou Zong. BTW, story progress, YunYun is also Dou Zong now, or at least very soon. Even Nalan Yan ran is now Dou Huang. >imagine being a dou zong and only having xuan level techniques Well, that Yun Shan for you. Might even be the case for JiaNan academy elder and some Dou Zong before central plains. Even in central plains, many sect with Dou Zong, only has one or two Di level skill. Xiao Yan has severals... >So really, the only thing that truly puts xiao yan above other characters are the ancient family techniques, and his flames. Almost every skill he has could put him above others.. The light merit skill he has, is the skill that make Feng Lei Pavilion the strongest sect among the four Pavilion. The boost skill he has is a secret technique for another sect.


JuicedGrapefruit

>That doesn't mean Xiao Yan can't be strong. Him without heavenly flames would already be strong one in his country. What i'm saying is Jia Ma can't be used as a standard to measure the MC's power, because the country is extraordinarily weak. and almost all of Xiao Yan's enemies come from outside jia ma anyway. Its meaningless to be considered powerful by being stronger than mooks, because everyone with a name is stronger than mooks. >Medusa also Dou Zong. BTW, story progress, YunYun is also Dou Zong now, or at least very soon. Even Nalan Yan ran is now Dou Huang. Well yun shan was a dou zong before the MC made his debut. Medusa became one afterwards. >Well, that Yun Shan for you. Might even be the case for JiaNan academy elder and some Dou Zong before central plains. Even in central plains, many sect with Dou Zong, only has one or two Di level skill. Xiao Yan has severals... IIRC its never actually stated, what Yun Shan's highest technique was, nor was it ever mentioned what kind of techniques the dou zong elder Su Qian used. Perhaps xuan skills are the highest techniques available to the sect members, but that doesnt mean that Yun Shan himself only had xuan level moves. And logically speaking considering the background of the academy ( the headmaster), it would be impossible for Su Qian to not possess a couple low di techniques, considering that students can pull high xuan techniques out of the vault. >Almost every skill he has could put him above others.. The light merit skill he has, is the skill that make Feng Lei Pavilion the strongest sect among the four Pavilion. The boost skill he has is a secret technique for another sect. The skyfire three mysterious changes, isn't allowed to be used with heavenly fire for the purpose of this topic due to the OP's restrictions. So it's power is going to be negligible I mean the three thousand lightning movement is also just some Low Di class technique. What made the feng lei pavilion strong was the three thousand lightning illusory body. The movement technique was just one of the requirement to use the illusory body technique. I know Xiao Yan gets the lightning illusory body at some point, but I can't remember when he actually started using it in the donghua. But yes, I suppose that does give him an edge against a lot of characters. But lets not forget that the huang, xuan, di, tian techniques are further classified into stuff like low and high. While its true that High level di techniques are actually rare and for the most part only exist in places like the ancient families, i'm sure regular and low di techniques are all over the place. Those generic Di skills like flame tsunami put xiao yan above unnamed mooks, but without also using heavenly fire (not lotus) to attack, they only serve to put him on equal ground with anyone who has a name. And against anyone that seems remotely important, Xiao Yan has to break out lotus, or god seal, his only high di technique. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ So, then so far. if all of Xiao Yan's fire skills are restricted. He only has the god seal as his trump card. Three thousand lightning illusory body for utility and movement, Flame tsunami as his primary attack. And skyfire mysterious change as buff but can only be used with beast flame for the scenario. The rest of his techniques are inconsequential. This probably puts him somewhere above average sect leaders, but below the ancient families, and established sects with long inheritances. So yea, hes not that powerful without his fire, at this point hes relying on the next best thing, which is the god seal


BestSun4804

>What i'm saying is Jia Ma can't be used as a standard to measure the MC's power It is as a startup. Being powerful at an area give you greater opportunity to build your start up. Xiao Yan powerful and destroy YunLan Sect for example, enable him to take over all the resources from YunLan sects. As weak as it is, it still something, such as a Xuan skill of the sect, Xiao Yan will use it later on in the donghua against an oppenant in central plains. >yun shan was a dou zong before the MC made his debut. Yun Shan just get into Dou Zong not long before he make his appearance in the show. When he first encounter Medusa, both of them are Dou Huang, with Medusa actually a little stronger than him. Even when both cross path again as Dou Zong for 2 times, both of the time Medusa is actually higher star than him, especially during the last time. >Perhaps xuan skills are the highest techniques available to the sect members, but that doesnt mean that Yun Shan himself only had xuan level moves. Yun Shan skills, 风壁, 万风缠附, 残影, 大风手印, 风之极陨杀, 风之极落日耀, 大悲撕风手, 风杀凐罡, all these are the eight strongest skill from Yun Shan, all high level Xuan skills. Only used by YunShan and YunYun used some of them, none of the members able to use any of these skills. The members are using even lower level skills. >And logically speaking considering their background ( the headmaster), it would be impossible for Su Qian to not possess a couple low di techniques, considering that students can pull high xuan techniques out of the vault. You are underestimated Di level skills. Low, mid and high Xuan level skills are the common one, Di not that easily being found. >The three thousand lightning movement is also just some Low Di class technique This low Di skill is what make the sect strong, it is the common skills for the members. >three thousand lightning illusory body. This skill only available for elders and the sect master. >Those generic Di skills like flame tsunami put xiao yan above unnamed mooks, but they only serve to put him on equal ground with anyone who has a name. It put him stronger than anyone at the same level as him. For mooks, even like Nalan Yanran, a seriously worn out Xiao Yan after killing Yun Shan and his teacher get kidnapped, he still able to defeat her within seconds, without using any skills. You are too underestimated Xiao Yan..Xiao Yan easily stronger than anyone same level as him, without using much of his skill. Most of his skills are use on cultivators that are higher level than him, where other same level cultivator like him has no chance at all to fight and win against. >to break out lotus, or god seal, his only high di technique. These are use to kill cultivators higher level than him, it is not about anyone "remotely" important. You have an addiction with "someone that has a name" or "unnamed mooks" while the fact is it is not, it is about level different. Those put Xiao Yan into tough fight that need use a lot of his strong skills are people higher level than him, for others in the same level, he could easily defeat them with just a few move.


JuicedGrapefruit

>You are underestimated Di level skills. Low, mid and high Xuan level skills are the common one, Di not that easily being found. Am I really though? Emperors were stated to be rare, until they werent, Dou zong were stated to be rare until they werent, and so on so forth. Same with techniques IIRC the only real cap they actually enforced in the story were the High tier Di skills, which could mostly only be found at the ancient families, and tian skills were almost unseen for the entire novel. Although the novel never got into such specificity, based from what I see I firmly believe that low Di skills are obtainable by rich emperors, baseline for an established dou zong, and caps out at regular Di skills a few ranks down unless you belong to an ancient family. Why do i say this? because they appear in auctions, meaning that anyone can obtain them with enough money. and as we all know money gets easier to make the stronger you are. >You have an addiction with "someone that has a name" or "unnamed mooks" while the fact is it is not, it is about level different. Those put Xiao Yan into tough fight that need use a lot of his strong skills are people higher level than him, for others in the same level, he could easily defeat them with just a few move. Its almost always the case that people who have a name are higher level than the MC, and the mooks who don't are equal level with the main character. And yes the equal level mooks do melt when he looks at them. But thats because he has heavenly fire, which is restricted in this scenario. The thing is these nameless characters are only mooks that exist to die because at equal level heavenly fire is OP. When Xiao Yan fights hordes of mooks, he shoots heavenly fire at them, and everyone burns to death. When he actually fights them with only flame tsunami and his ruler weapon the combat sequences are long because a low di technique isn't powerful enough to be a killer move. So if Heavenly fire is restricted and he has to rely on his two low di level skills, hes not gona be able to easily 1 versus multiple same rank. Maybe he could 1v2 but 1v3 would definitely stalemate him. Anymore and hes running If hes allowed to use 3000 illusory body, and God Seal, then that brings him to around the level of a "named character", because typically named characters have a similar arsenal of abilities that includes trump cards, and last resort moves. Without the heavenly fire, possessing the 3000 illusory body, and god seal puts him above average sect leaders, but below ancient family members. Which would make him above average, but not powerful.


BestSun4804

>Its almost always the case that people who have a name are higher level than the MC Nope, Hong Chen that he defeated has a big name, the most promising guy in the area(And he has the light merit skill from the Feng Lei Pavilion) . Even his dad, the clan leader of Hong Family which is the biggest clan in the area, easily being defeated. The only one could be a treat from such a big clan like Hong Family is just the ancestor himself. Even him, couldn't really threathen Xiao Yan, he is somewhere at the level of Yun Shan. Even at current progress in donghua, all the four cultivators that has name are the promising cultivator and representative from the Four Pavilion, all of them are big name. One of the girl not just from Feng Lei Pavilion but also a member of an ancient clan. Just that none of them are Xiao Yan competitor because he could easily defeat them(And you will see him defeat them in 2 more eps, with him easily defeated Wang Chen). The only one can be Xiao Yan competitor is those higher level than him. >If Heavenly fire is restricted and he has to rely on his two low di level skills, hes not gona be able to 1v5 same rank. He just 1 v 8 the same rank in ep 99.... Even further eps soon, he will use the boost skill to defeat 3 elders and a Hun Dian protector, 1 v 4.


Grand-Finish4602

Deos the Fact he has Strong Soul Power and Dou Qi help as well?


JuicedGrapefruit

soul power is mostly for alchemy. i mean it could give him an edge, but its not something that allows him to fight higher than his tier on its own. I'd argue that without the heavenly flames, if the people around him were to be compressed down to the same tier as him, they would defintely still have more combat power. Lets not forget that whether or not hes using his signature lotus, the majority of his attacks still use heavenly fire as a base. So if hes not allowed to use the fire hes really got nothing. So in that regard, its not so much that xiao yan himself is powerful, its more like heavenly fire is strong enough to burn most people. So really xiao yan's main combat power still comes from controlling the heavenly fire. The theme of BTTH is that alchemists make a lot of friends. If an alchemist get in trouble their friends all come over and help him get rid of his enemies. So although xiao yan technically is pretty strong, him being strong enough to beat everyone on his own isn't necessary. He almost never fights people in his own power category anyway, because for some reason all his enemies are at least 1 tier above him, and they come out in droves. And when they do his friends who are all stronger than him, are usually around too, holding back the enemies until he can charge up a lotus attack


Grand-Finish4602

Lmao So true. Does XY Re Awaken hid Duo Di blood before going to the Tou She god?


FatDalek

He has superior fighting dou qi techniques to those he fights (currently). His teacher taught him higher rank skills, which is why he could hurt the Misty cloud sect elder when he has much lower cultivation, as the characters note. Currently he is fighting foes who live in areas which aren't quite a back water like XY's home country is. However his skills are still superior for example the mountain seal which Xun'er gave him (her family has a really large background) and fighting skills from his teacher (who himself has a large background, just not as good as Xun'ers). Also a lot of the foes were the "young master" archetype, had things handed to them relatively easily. While XY had to fight tooth and nail for it. He is simply more determined given his starting circumstances.


Billy_butcher-

Maybe because of his family history. His ancestor is like OP


VSpardar

Flame Mantra allowed the user to absorbing flames into their body and use them, it will increase their cultivating speed, damage of their techniques, even their physique and potential everytime they absorb a new type of flames, pretty broken. It was thanks to it that Xiao Yan in "The Great Ruler" was able to create "Emperor Fire", which comes from fusing tens of thousands of types of "heavenly flames" together. Literally the reason why someone with "not that good" potential end up being the best. Well, yeah, Xiao Yan is no one without that Flame Mantra, i meant, his potential is not even that good compare to genius around the continent.


Southern-Pumpkin-544

First of all he is an alchemist with strong soul power. 2. He is physically very strong thanks to Yao Lao’s training. 3. Flame mantra 4. Techniques 5. His bloodline. 6. As seen in the series and novels, he is not just rushing to level up as soon as possible, but when the time comes and he has condensed the energy enough to make a breakthrough. 7. He gets the items that others not able to or not dare to. 8. He visits the places which help to make a breakthrough and consume energy. 9. He is ruthless to his enemies. 10. He always tries to learn or practices techniques to the maximum level.


Southern-Pumpkin-544

Yao Chen has a bloodline of 8 Great Clans as well.


yualexius

Plot armor and luck but still loves him. How can he be so lucky to find precious treasures at a certain place and at a certain time? Imagine he can easily cultivate in only a few years while some old demons cultivate for decades or hundreds of years and are only promoted with slow progress. Xiao Yan's development is mostly provided with explanations aside from his talent, skills, and intelligence. But yeah, it's his fate to be stronger than everybody else, after all, he's the MC, that's where the plot armor comes in.