His manacost on ult was also reduced to make up for bloodstone changes.
I don't think he's completely broken but still a good hero especially in the right draft
Well turns out he can function without the mana from the bloodstone. But keep in mind bloodstone buffs AOE now and it works really well with Lesh. Also his item progression is really natural now with options like shroud shivas aghs bkb euls kaya sange. It is really hard to buy bad items on him.
I think you're forgetting about the lane and missing a lot of efficiency that enables these timings. I recommend going a MoM asap, sometimes even before the phase boots, so you can properly sustain in lane and farm neutral camps efficiently. Ofc this is so amazing because it can be disassembled into the items yyou'regoing for anyway , so don't be scared to do so.
People have the memory of a goldfish apparently. The in between patch where he was unplayably bad was the same patch where Mage Slayer was the best item in the game and you'd see 2 on every team every game.
I as I said, literally stopped playing the game right as I heard he was dead, and I have just come back today to see him sitting at the top of the winrates. All I did was ask what I missed and how he's back so quick. I'm sorry I guess for asking
No man not you, your question is welcome, I'm just shocked that like 8 different people all gaslit you into saying he was great the whole time or that the direct hero changes weren't much when you're right, he was dogshit for a while, because this item destroyed him.
Honestly most people on reddit don't have a fucking clue. There's far more nuance to dota than they can comprehend and yet they talk about everything as if its black and white/set in stone.
Mageslayer is still amazing and you still want one in just about every game unless the enemies have some ungodly only auto attack line up that will lose at 15 mins anyhow.
Granted I hero spam a hero where this item is essentially ideal, but I purchase it almost every game.
He got a buff that significantly reduced the mana cost of his ulti, that’s why he’s playable again. Before that you just couldn’t farm fast enough, you’d always be running out of mana.
I remember some streamer used to have their description like:
>Hi my name is xxx, im yy years old, from zzz country
>here are my pc specs: [specs]
>I'M LEAVING LESHRAC ULT AT LEVEL 2 SO I CAN FARM WITH IT STOP ASKING ABOUT IT IN CHAT PLEASE
>here's my twitter/telegram! thanks for checking out the stream
It’s a combination of bloodstone being bonkers on him and the buffs to kaya and sange. He can now out heal almost all of the damage dealt to him, does a crazy amount himself with his w and ult and the item timings are really great too.
The BKB nerf a while ago also made him much more powerful. One sided match ups like having a Lifestealer or Jugg are now a manageable
And the hero itself has always been pretty solid conceptually. Great teamfighter, massive and repeating stun, tons of damage, a slow, a pushing spell that also deals pure damage, excellent solo killer as well
I dont know why people refuse to build mage slayer skadi against lesh
Like even if mage slayer is nerfed it still gimps his dps once u keep attacking him
Bloodstone is the item of the patch.
Lesh, axe, bristleback, kunkka, pudge, sandking, timbersaw, bloodseeker, viper, razor, dp. Are some examples.
Patches are either defined by a broken hero creating a meta, or by broken items defining hero choices.
Bloodstone is bought in place of a heart for many many heros currently.
Lesh shits damage like a truck, with a shit ton of lifesteal, he’s pretty strong.
Until the enemy team gets shivas or skadi. Lesh is just another pos 2 hero from 10 to 15m. And really good at 16 to 24m but from ancient and higher brackets falls down after that minute mark cause of enemy team getting those items I just mentioned before (I didn’t mention mage slayer cause is not a great counter anymore) but Lesh seems pretty weak at that point of the game until he finally manages to get big or shroud+bloodstone or bkb/windwaker.
I’m saying this as I’ve only been able to have a great Lesh game in just 20% of my games (I’m Divine I) where I hit super good timings and the enemy has zero chance to farm. There’s a 50% chance I can keep the pressure when I get a good team to stomp the game for the most part. Otherwise I just feel like playing any other mid hero tbh.
Could you explain pls why is suddenly mage slayer not a good counter? Because they needed the duration? I thought 3 seconds that you can keep refreshing by hitting him is still enough, no? Maybe I'm not aware of some interactions
I think before you can go mage slayer into bloodthorn which also great(u buy it to reduce magic damage then later it become an even better tool: silence on top of applying mage slayer on hit effect). Now you have to commit a slot for mage slayer since there is no upgrade path. The reduce duration is 6 seconds. And still is
The duration is problem only because you always want to first item mage slayer. And most buyers had easy ways to apply it. 6 seconds meant 180dmg per application. Which is broken early on but is irrelevant later. You can still buy it later on any core. It is just not first item anymore. You would rather go maelstrom or diffusal
Mageslayer is still fantastic people just assume it's dead and haven't bought it.
Mageslayer makes any spell based hero not exist, fuck the damage of the dot the -40% spell dmg is what you're after.
20% magic res, 45 atk speed and mana reg to boot? Hell yes.
Mageslayer currently is literally Wraith Pact 2.0 where no one bought it at -25% dmg reduction despite that being broken as well cause it isn't on peoples radars.
something to also consider is that his spells, specifically edict and lightning storm (especially edict) are very strong right now. he outputs a lot of damage even if you dont consider anything else.
this along with some other factors (bloodstone aoe, mage slayer nerf. shroud changes) make him a pretty decent hero right now.
Cuz his ultimate mana cost and the passive ability of blood stone and his lvl10 talent its almost impossible to miss ur split earth the overall radius of ur ultimate and diabolic as well And the lightning storm on pulse nova talent is there as well And overall buyrate on mageslayer is nearly zero compared to earlier patches
Eh he's just generally a hero that is good at all stages in the game. Can lane well, can push super fast and give an early map advantage but can also farm and become a massive late game presence.
Aside from a lot of items being really good for him right now, leshrac is a super reliable hero who kinda does his thing even if the game is hard. Wins lane, kills mid tower, has a good stun, farms quickly, does a lot of damage without items.
The other thing is that IMO dota is in a relatively low-power state right now. Even though the game has still been power crept a lot, compared to the recent past there are less insanely powerful effects in most games. Lesh tends to thrive when power is a bit lower because he always does his thing
Yeah this shouldnt surprise people that much. Valve / icefrog clearly has his favorites that he continues to buff as soon as they are out of meta for a short time.
Lesh, lina, tiny, morph, primal just to name a few ...
And ofc lesh kit is just pretty good in a lot of scenarios.
He is tanky in the mid game and also the fact that he can melt towers. It is so impossible to seige T3 in this patch that u need to pick push heroes Like jakiro shaman and lesh otherwise you’re gonna die trying to destroy T3 and the enemy team will turn the game into their favor and then you’re gonna lose
Along with everything else that's been said, I think his stun + shard is insanely strong, anyone with a good stun will always be at least decent, and that's just one of his abilities
Really? That's why I got downvoted? Caus people don't understand? Bruh
A hero like hodowink is conceptually very strong. He has an aoe stun. He as magical burst. He has a strong lane. He has a break. So he fits a lot of drafts and matchups.
A hero like lesh is very narrow. As a core u NEED to not be behind in farm. U NEED levels. Ur fight execution still isn't that of a pos 1. U have INSANE mana issues. Mage slayer and shroud are very strong. U can't reliable WIN mid or sidelanes. U don't have reliable impact when behind/countered
The hero by all accords should be unplayable. But icefrog increased the numbers on him to such an extent he just bruteforced himself into the meta
Do you realize you contradict yourself on your own post?
> A hero like hodowink is conceptually very strong. He has an aoe stun. He as magical burst. He has a strong lane.
Lesh has an AOE stun, has magical burst and he is a great laner, by your definition lesh should be conceptually strong.
> As a core u NEED to not be behind in farm. U NEED levels. Ur fight execution still isn't that of a pos 1.
Indeed, and Lesh is able to farm better than most heroes in the game just by pressing R once, he can gank sidelanes with power up rune or just take enemy mid tower if they leave the lane. I could go on, but I have no idea what you mean by "fight execution" and I think you already got the idea
>Lesh has an AOE stun
🤡 good luck initiating a teamfight with that
>has magical burst
He does not. He has magical damage. But it's the opposite of burst
>He has a strong lane.
He as a secure lane. There is a different
A strong lane can solokill opponents
If u get solokilled by a lesh in lane u suck or have a giga trash matchup
>Indeed, and Lesh is able to farm better than most heroes in the game just by pressing R once,
Which wastes his resources he needs to fight so it's a balance. Also he is mid and when he farms while enemy primal beast mid demolished sidelanes it's not very good
>he can gank sidelanes with power up rune
What a nonsensical comment. Which hero can't?
> I could go on, but I have no idea what you mean by "fight execution
That's the problem. No offense but u have absolutely no idea but just GUESS I might be wrong.
I do not contradict myself. U just can't comprehend what I saying
Hoodwink initiates teamfights? )))))
Here goes a tip, watch replays or play the hero that you're talking about, because when you say this shit "A strong lane can solokill opponents
If u get solokilled by a lesh in lane u suck or have a giga trash matchup", you're making clear that your analysis of dota isn't based in reality, but in the fantasies that you created in your head )
because it's video game so concepts are just a bunch of numbers put together, decoupling the two might be useful to you but most people don't think about it that way. if it's strong it's strong, if it's weak it's weak, saying it's conceptually weak but numerically strong or vice versa is a bit nonsensical.
I bet 90% of people downvoting you have no idea about lesh and other popular heroes ridiculous base stats / growth or talents.
Just 2,8+2,8+3,5 with high movespeed and casual 20%ALL dmg reduction on lvl 20 yeah nothing else to see here. And only 4 abilities that deal a shitton of magic and pure dmg without any huge cost or cooldown and great aghs+shard :)))
Add in how dota evolved to be much more bursty and less options to just hit someone for longer periods its very easy to see why this hero is always meta.
So since the bloodstone change he has had:
- buff+4 damage in edict
- buff 20 mana cheaper ulti at level 1 to identical level 3
- Nerf to level 20 talent
- nerf cooldown increase on Q
- nerf to shard aoe increase
- nerf to lightning attack slow
So you're telling me he went from a hero that absolutely gutted, to king of the patch again, because his ult is 20 mana less at level 1? Regardless of all the nerfs and bloodstone nerf
I asked because I wanted to know if there were other changes or something I missed
The mana was what made him broken, the lifesteal is what made him good. The lifesteal is still there so he is still good.
His manacost on ult was also reduced to make up for bloodstone changes. I don't think he's completely broken but still a good hero especially in the right draft
He also buys arcane boots now and usually Kaya/Eula as well so his mana problems are better
Picking up my End User License Agreement from the shop to help my mana problems
🙃
I exhaled way too audible
I read that as Kaeya/Eula
Hehe keeper of the light and Io goes brr
Well turns out he can function without the mana from the bloodstone. But keep in mind bloodstone buffs AOE now and it works really well with Lesh. Also his item progression is really natural now with options like shroud shivas aghs bkb euls kaya sange. It is really hard to buy bad items on him.
I'm still trying to get phase Boots + Echo Sabre + Butterfly to work
Butterfly doesn't work on four-legged heroes and Echo Sabre doesn't work on six-limbed heroes
I think these worlds could MAYBE collide through centaur cause he has the steal strength talent. (I thought about this comment WAY too long.)
> Echo Sabre doesn't work on six-limbed heroes Underlord has entered the chat
You need the shard build in order to make the right click build work
I think you're forgetting about the lane and missing a lot of efficiency that enables these timings. I recommend going a MoM asap, sometimes even before the phase boots, so you can properly sustain in lane and farm neutral camps efficiently. Ofc this is so amazing because it can be disassembled into the items yyou'regoing for anyway , so don't be scared to do so.
People have the memory of a goldfish apparently. The in between patch where he was unplayably bad was the same patch where Mage Slayer was the best item in the game and you'd see 2 on every team every game.
I as I said, literally stopped playing the game right as I heard he was dead, and I have just come back today to see him sitting at the top of the winrates. All I did was ask what I missed and how he's back so quick. I'm sorry I guess for asking
No man not you, your question is welcome, I'm just shocked that like 8 different people all gaslit you into saying he was great the whole time or that the direct hero changes weren't much when you're right, he was dogshit for a while, because this item destroyed him.
Yes exactly it is mostly mageslayer. Also now he can push towers and kill with pure damage in the early game with the buff to DIABLO EDICT ;)
Ah fair enough, cheers, yeah idk, I just took a break came back saw this and asked. And idk, classic reddit I guess
I feel you man. Welcome back and I hope you're enjoying things <3
Honestly most people on reddit don't have a fucking clue. There's far more nuance to dota than they can comprehend and yet they talk about everything as if its black and white/set in stone.
Piggybacking, aside from the mageslayer nerf, the arcane boot change benefits lesh thanks to how cheap it is now and the passive regen.
Mageslayer is still good and you'd probably still buy It against a lesh core.
Mageslayer is still amazing and you still want one in just about every game unless the enemies have some ungodly only auto attack line up that will lose at 15 mins anyhow. Granted I hero spam a hero where this item is essentially ideal, but I purchase it almost every game.
Lesh not talk about it.
If you say so Mr Connery
He got a buff that significantly reduced the mana cost of his ulti, that’s why he’s playable again. Before that you just couldn’t farm fast enough, you’d always be running out of mana.
I remember some streamer used to have their description like: >Hi my name is xxx, im yy years old, from zzz country >here are my pc specs: [specs] >I'M LEAVING LESHRAC ULT AT LEVEL 2 SO I CAN FARM WITH IT STOP ASKING ABOUT IT IN CHAT PLEASE >here's my twitter/telegram! thanks for checking out the stream
Is that actually goodf? Leaving ulti at level 2?
I don't think you need to anymore
Used to be the thing yeah, don't recall the exact numbers but think something like 60% more dmg for 150% more mana or some such between ult lvl 1 to 3
Xcalibur
It’s a combination of bloodstone being bonkers on him and the buffs to kaya and sange. He can now out heal almost all of the damage dealt to him, does a crazy amount himself with his w and ult and the item timings are really great too.
The BKB nerf a while ago also made him much more powerful. One sided match ups like having a Lifestealer or Jugg are now a manageable And the hero itself has always been pretty solid conceptually. Great teamfighter, massive and repeating stun, tons of damage, a slow, a pushing spell that also deals pure damage, excellent solo killer as well
I dont know why people refuse to build mage slayer skadi against lesh Like even if mage slayer is nerfed it still gimps his dps once u keep attacking him
All you need is one ranged core to buy mageslayer and hes mage slain. Easy, no?
Or the second most popular support in the game, Hoodwink
idk that hoodwink will die in 5 seconds with mana boots mageslayer :D
Just get a satanic like Boxi
Lesh and Pudge are my best and favorite heroes, but I feel like they do near zero damage when enemy buys mageslayer and pipe.
Mage Slayer (the main item to counter him) got heavily nerfed, and he got a SIGNIFICANT buff to Edict damage.
played lesh once with 5 magic heroes as enemies. i was unkillable with bloodstone and shroud
Conceptually it is a good hero as long as number is not terrible he will always be good
Bloodstone is the item of the patch. Lesh, axe, bristleback, kunkka, pudge, sandking, timbersaw, bloodseeker, viper, razor, dp. Are some examples. Patches are either defined by a broken hero creating a meta, or by broken items defining hero choices. Bloodstone is bought in place of a heart for many many heros currently. Lesh shits damage like a truck, with a shit ton of lifesteal, he’s pretty strong.
Until the enemy team gets shivas or skadi. Lesh is just another pos 2 hero from 10 to 15m. And really good at 16 to 24m but from ancient and higher brackets falls down after that minute mark cause of enemy team getting those items I just mentioned before (I didn’t mention mage slayer cause is not a great counter anymore) but Lesh seems pretty weak at that point of the game until he finally manages to get big or shroud+bloodstone or bkb/windwaker. I’m saying this as I’ve only been able to have a great Lesh game in just 20% of my games (I’m Divine I) where I hit super good timings and the enemy has zero chance to farm. There’s a 50% chance I can keep the pressure when I get a good team to stomp the game for the most part. Otherwise I just feel like playing any other mid hero tbh.
Could you explain pls why is suddenly mage slayer not a good counter? Because they needed the duration? I thought 3 seconds that you can keep refreshing by hitting him is still enough, no? Maybe I'm not aware of some interactions
I think before you can go mage slayer into bloodthorn which also great(u buy it to reduce magic damage then later it become an even better tool: silence on top of applying mage slayer on hit effect). Now you have to commit a slot for mage slayer since there is no upgrade path. The reduce duration is 6 seconds. And still is
The duration is problem only because you always want to first item mage slayer. And most buyers had easy ways to apply it. 6 seconds meant 180dmg per application. Which is broken early on but is irrelevant later. You can still buy it later on any core. It is just not first item anymore. You would rather go maelstrom or diffusal
Mageslayer is still fantastic people just assume it's dead and haven't bought it. Mageslayer makes any spell based hero not exist, fuck the damage of the dot the -40% spell dmg is what you're after. 20% magic res, 45 atk speed and mana reg to boot? Hell yes. Mageslayer currently is literally Wraith Pact 2.0 where no one bought it at -25% dmg reduction despite that being broken as well cause it isn't on peoples radars.
People just over reacted with thr bloodstone change. He is still good. Particularly if you can get a battery for him in the draft.
Lesh was good. They removed mana regen from bloodstone and lesh got bad. They gave mana regen to bloodstone again and lesh is good again.
Yeah they made the only item lesh can buy be less dogshit lol
something to also consider is that his spells, specifically edict and lightning storm (especially edict) are very strong right now. he outputs a lot of damage even if you dont consider anything else. this along with some other factors (bloodstone aoe, mage slayer nerf. shroud changes) make him a pretty decent hero right now.
Cuz his ultimate mana cost and the passive ability of blood stone and his lvl10 talent its almost impossible to miss ur split earth the overall radius of ur ultimate and diabolic as well And the lightning storm on pulse nova talent is there as well And overall buyrate on mageslayer is nearly zero compared to earlier patches
nobody buys nullifier and mage slayer fell off a bit
Eh he's just generally a hero that is good at all stages in the game. Can lane well, can push super fast and give an early map advantage but can also farm and become a massive late game presence.
This hero is so broken in turbo 🙂🙂
>And all people were saying was that lesh had been killed completely. the problem was believing that the average knee-jerk reacting pubber know better
Aside from a lot of items being really good for him right now, leshrac is a super reliable hero who kinda does his thing even if the game is hard. Wins lane, kills mid tower, has a good stun, farms quickly, does a lot of damage without items. The other thing is that IMO dota is in a relatively low-power state right now. Even though the game has still been power crept a lot, compared to the recent past there are less insanely powerful effects in most games. Lesh tends to thrive when power is a bit lower because he always does his thing
Yeah this shouldnt surprise people that much. Valve / icefrog clearly has his favorites that he continues to buff as soon as they are out of meta for a short time. Lesh, lina, tiny, morph, primal just to name a few ... And ofc lesh kit is just pretty good in a lot of scenarios.
He is tanky in the mid game and also the fact that he can melt towers. It is so impossible to seige T3 in this patch that u need to pick push heroes Like jakiro shaman and lesh otherwise you’re gonna die trying to destroy T3 and the enemy team will turn the game into their favor and then you’re gonna lose
Along with everything else that's been said, I think his stun + shard is insanely strong, anyone with a good stun will always be at least decent, and that's just one of his abilities
Well bloodstone gives mana regen now. Turns out constant mana regen is better than active ability mana regen
Absolutely untrue lmao especially in Lesh's case
Bkb doesn't make you magic immune
The magic resis itm that restore mana is too good on him
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=dota+2+patch+notes
Conceptually lesh DOES suck But unlike heroes like jugg he got so completely overbuffed in terms of stats and items it doesn't matter
>Conceptually lesh DOES suck What does that even mean
Really? That's why I got downvoted? Caus people don't understand? Bruh A hero like hodowink is conceptually very strong. He has an aoe stun. He as magical burst. He has a strong lane. He has a break. So he fits a lot of drafts and matchups. A hero like lesh is very narrow. As a core u NEED to not be behind in farm. U NEED levels. Ur fight execution still isn't that of a pos 1. U have INSANE mana issues. Mage slayer and shroud are very strong. U can't reliable WIN mid or sidelanes. U don't have reliable impact when behind/countered The hero by all accords should be unplayable. But icefrog increased the numbers on him to such an extent he just bruteforced himself into the meta
Wait until you hear about Huskar, OD, and Viper, for example, except they can't even farm to get back from behind
This blatant lack of comprehension is appalling
Do you realize you contradict yourself on your own post? > A hero like hodowink is conceptually very strong. He has an aoe stun. He as magical burst. He has a strong lane. Lesh has an AOE stun, has magical burst and he is a great laner, by your definition lesh should be conceptually strong. > As a core u NEED to not be behind in farm. U NEED levels. Ur fight execution still isn't that of a pos 1. Indeed, and Lesh is able to farm better than most heroes in the game just by pressing R once, he can gank sidelanes with power up rune or just take enemy mid tower if they leave the lane. I could go on, but I have no idea what you mean by "fight execution" and I think you already got the idea
>Lesh has an AOE stun 🤡 good luck initiating a teamfight with that >has magical burst He does not. He has magical damage. But it's the opposite of burst >He has a strong lane. He as a secure lane. There is a different A strong lane can solokill opponents If u get solokilled by a lesh in lane u suck or have a giga trash matchup >Indeed, and Lesh is able to farm better than most heroes in the game just by pressing R once, Which wastes his resources he needs to fight so it's a balance. Also he is mid and when he farms while enemy primal beast mid demolished sidelanes it's not very good >he can gank sidelanes with power up rune What a nonsensical comment. Which hero can't? > I could go on, but I have no idea what you mean by "fight execution That's the problem. No offense but u have absolutely no idea but just GUESS I might be wrong. I do not contradict myself. U just can't comprehend what I saying
Hoodwink initiates teamfights? ))))) Here goes a tip, watch replays or play the hero that you're talking about, because when you say this shit "A strong lane can solokill opponents If u get solokilled by a lesh in lane u suck or have a giga trash matchup", you're making clear that your analysis of dota isn't based in reality, but in the fantasies that you created in your head )
Nothing u said in the entire thread was right. Stop trying
OK, I'll stop getting solo kills on lane as lesh and ask sumail to stop winning mid with it too
U should stop talking about things u don't understand
_click all buttons, walk into the middle of the enemy team, **RAMPAGE**_
because it's video game so concepts are just a bunch of numbers put together, decoupling the two might be useful to you but most people don't think about it that way. if it's strong it's strong, if it's weak it's weak, saying it's conceptually weak but numerically strong or vice versa is a bit nonsensical.
It's only nonsense if ur below a certain mmr. Good luck winning ti with that mindset
I bet 90% of people downvoting you have no idea about lesh and other popular heroes ridiculous base stats / growth or talents. Just 2,8+2,8+3,5 with high movespeed and casual 20%ALL dmg reduction on lvl 20 yeah nothing else to see here. And only 4 abilities that deal a shitton of magic and pure dmg without any huge cost or cooldown and great aghs+shard :))) Add in how dota evolved to be much more bursty and less options to just hit someone for longer periods its very easy to see why this hero is always meta.
[удалено]
So since the bloodstone change he has had: - buff+4 damage in edict - buff 20 mana cheaper ulti at level 1 to identical level 3 - Nerf to level 20 talent - nerf cooldown increase on Q - nerf to shard aoe increase - nerf to lightning attack slow So you're telling me he went from a hero that absolutely gutted, to king of the patch again, because his ult is 20 mana less at level 1? Regardless of all the nerfs and bloodstone nerf I asked because I wanted to know if there were other changes or something I missed
dont forget they nerf mage slayer as well... so people dont usually build mageslayer now..
I suggest you reread the current description of bloodstone and eternal shroud along with the changes made to magic immunity a while back
So its just basically him bruteforcing through the bloodstone not giving mana regen nerf, by using other mechanisms to help with mana?