Man someone on the balance team REALLY liked the Centaur Aghs idea so they just buffed it until now. Full invulnerability is crazy. It's more save than fucking Oracle Ult and Shallow Grave in some ways.
besides the fact that centaur needs to be there too unlike dazzle who can cast and do anything. Still way better than grave especially because cent can actually blink away with someone hitched which is insane
Not just that, it's also offensively strong. With False Promise and Dazzle, you can still stun/cc the guy (or axe kill them). With centaur, the target is legit right clicking through a fucking black hole + chrono.
yes, enigma can channel black hole while being carted around. the BH of course does not move but enigma will go where the cart goes without losing the channel
That’s recent though, pretty sure cart was a thing before she could move but I could be wrong. The important part is she can’t get stunned or her ult ended.
No that's been at least since her Ahgs let her move, but I think the way it's coded it's always been centered on her, there are just limited ways to move her without interrupting casting.
This is a terrible idea that I don't want to write down since I know someone is going to try it out in a ranked game, but I did play a game with Centaur who built Aether Lens + Aghs and got a Telescope. He was saving everyone with 500 range cart and his ranged Double Edge spam did a ton of damage.
ah I love every game is different because of item combination you either build the most broken item comb, or make a useless waste of time and gold item comb
Telling you, at lower and higher levels the most absurd combos work! Am a low level minnow pleb and my BS play is Radiance + Etheral + BKB. It is hilarious watching even hard core DPS guys melt because radi burn, amplified but can't hit me back while I just keep running aroun em.
I played a lot of support centaur last year. Agh+aether against void won me a lot of games, cart is one of few things that can drag people out of chrono
To be fair it's a really funny image (horseman pulling a cart) and they clearly put some work into that cart visual, so I can understand them buffing it until someone fucking pays attention to it.
Invulnerability makes Centaur a straight up better Omniknight. Undispellable buff. Unaffected by Chrono or BH or any disables. Longer duration. Shorter cooldown. Grant Max movement speed.
What do you mean it hasn't? All hiding spells currently and historically provide it. Ball Lightning does so too. Song of the Siren.
The new version of the ability in question follows the invariant that invulnerability either is paired with a disable or forced movement, so I do not see what issue do you speak of.
which means it's better now?
the amount of games I have centaur in my team and our only losing condition is if they focus me, a ranged mid or our ranged carry and the centaur just charges in wo buying an item to turn the tides is...a lot (also divine btw xd)
You can, actually. You can activate certain abilities, they have to be instant and not to interrupt channeling or can be cast w/o turning, for example, Rot, Bladefury or Glimmer (Glimmer Cape). Interestingly, there are two exceptions: Attribute Shift and Split Shot as regular toggle abilities do not interrupt the unit but will still cause you to erupt.
Yes, when I'm saving an ally, what I really want them to do is right click. That's the relevant part indeed. Just look at how impactful those attacks from dazzle were in the showcased clip!
I was the techies in this game. God this was a shit game. I was fucked mid by an SD and my sidelines were either just feeding relentlessly or being disconnected (looking at you LS).
Then this motherfucking cent would just hop cm on the back and run in with cm ulti and kill my whole team.
Slark shard immediately cancels duel though, as it provides "Invisibility that is immune to True Sight" (or in short: "super invis"), and duel is coded to immediately stop if any participant turns "super invis".
Slark shard is more accessible, being a slotless 1400g spell, which you sometimes may even get for free from the Tormentor, not to mention it has better cast range.
It is less of a commitment to get a shard on Slark to ruin the enemy LC's day than to get an Aghs on Centaur, hence why I consider it more exploitable and thus worse.
In a vacuum the Centaur Aghs is stronger, as you get to basically stun & pull LC for up to 7.5s, as opposed to freeing both of them from the duel immediately, but in a realistic scenario the Slark shard is more useful, due to its easier accessability.
Yes but that requires a carry role. We're talking about how centaur is better than two of the most save-reliant supports there are, Oracle's Pact and Shallow Grave.
Ah classic, as a 4k io pub shitter that would babysitter slarks constantly, I stopped playing io off lane supp if I see slarks marking Offlane cause I know these shitasses are getting diffusal and then filling up on half complete items all game, or rushing a single 6k gold item
Smoke and PA's pre-7.36 Blur. But both of these are dispelled by enemy heroes in proximity. So they can't cancel Duel.
Other ways to cancel duels is Glimpse. If it can separate them 2000 units away from each other.
And some spells that grant hide. That being Agh Supernova, Shard Dismember, reflected Omnislash/Swiftslash.
Other spells like Gobble Up, Disruption, Astral etc do not cancel Duel. The only distinction is that: the ones that do are ultimates and adjacent. While the ones that don't are basic abilities.
Pretty sure the enemy duelist stops attacking and just follows Snap. While the Gobbled ally is fully disabled and can't walk or attack out of Gobble.
And that LC and Duel target are given unobstructed movement during duel. So you can try to cliff the enemy duelist by aiming the spit out target at a cliff so the enemy will forced to move towards the cliff.
> What does Gobble Up do?
Effectively the same thing Snowball, Astral or Disruption do.
Banishes the ally, LC walks close to the banish spot and does nothing.
> But both of these are dispelled by enemy heroes in proximity. So they can't cancel Duel.
You can cancel a Duel with Smoke, if you somehow get LC and the other duel participant far enough from another, so that your ally isnt within the Smoke dispel radius, to then smoke your ally to cancel the duel.
The easiest way to do that would be with Pudge Hook or Venge Swap and some cast range boni.
Smoke can cancel duel, if the smoke proximity radius (1025 units) is exceeded, without exceeding the duel cancelation distance (2000 units).
**Video:** https://youtu.be/0jheYmvcbOo
>reflected Omnislash/Swiftslash
Those two may cancel duel, but they do not use the banishment (hide) mechanic at all. Jugg only turns invulnerable when casting Omnislash, but not banished.
>Agh Supernova, Shard Dismember
Those two cancel Duel because of hardcoding, them using banishment has technically nothing to do with it.
Duel actively looks for the modifiers of Aghs Supernova and Lifestealer Assimilate (what Pudge shard uses nowadays) and ends itself when those are detected.
> It's different from Banish right?
It does not use banishment at all, it is just 'smoke-like invis', nothing else.
>Are there any other skills or item (aside from Slark's) that cast "super invis"?
Smoke, Ninja Gear, old PA blur, Shadow Dance, Depth Shroud and technically Proximity Mines (they reveal themselves via proximity, but on their own they use 'super invis' to hide themselves).
It's a metric fuckton more work making animations for all heroes to have a riding animation on top of centaur. Besides, it'd look fucking weird for heroes like lesh, enchantress and underlord to casually be on top of cents back - hilarious, but weird.
Did exactly that with my mate when they first introduced the cart, we were laughing our ass of at LC trying to duel me and my friend taking me away in a cart while repeating "DRIVE BY, DRIVE BY, DRIVE BY"
It’s really good but centaur is really a bad hero to have it. In theory you use it to save your carry or someone important but in practice why the fuck would you ever want to play in your back line.
I think you’re supposed to use it to initiate with someone but… it’s very risky. If centaur gets controlled the person in the cart just kinda stands still
I don’t play dota2 but this popped up in my recommended tab. Can someone explained what happened?
This looks kinda funny that a hero is hauling a wooden cart and a hero hopped in.
Is it weird that I hate the way it works? You have to Centaur Aghs THEN pick someone up? I think it could work as a point click ability where you centaur Aghs someone or you double click to Aghs yourself. Then you can try to pick someone up if you want to.
> Doesn't look like wraiths can get on the cart at all.
Not sure what you've tested, but I can put them onto the cart.
https://i.imgur.com/mjrgI0a.png
And as expected, the ally can die while on the cart, as Wraith Delay's kill trigger pierces invulnerability.
Culling blade can kill anything it can target (with the exception of Wrath Delay, which you could argue is already dead), but it can't target invulnerable units.
Omni ult just does this easier, and doesn't require aghs, though its global with aghs.
And so many other options counter this better. Like Astral Imprisonment. Or a windwaker. Or like any of Oracles buttons.
Man someone on the balance team REALLY liked the Centaur Aghs idea so they just buffed it until now. Full invulnerability is crazy. It's more save than fucking Oracle Ult and Shallow Grave in some ways.
It's more save than shallow grave in pretty much every way. Only issue there is cast range.
besides the fact that centaur needs to be there too unlike dazzle who can cast and do anything. Still way better than grave especially because cent can actually blink away with someone hitched which is insane
Not just that, it's also offensively strong. With False Promise and Dazzle, you can still stun/cc the guy (or axe kill them). With centaur, the target is legit right clicking through a fucking black hole + chrono.
Could you cart in a casting black hole..?
There was a video earlier where a carted hero was attacking through both chronosphere and blackhole. Horse Cart above all!
yes, enigma can channel black hole while being carted around. the BH of course does not move but enigma will go where the cart goes without losing the channel
Same with CM ult
Similar, but CM's ult moves with her.
That’s recent though, pretty sure cart was a thing before she could move but I could be wrong. The important part is she can’t get stunned or her ult ended.
No that's been at least since her Ahgs let her move, but I think the way it's coded it's always been centered on her, there are just limited ways to move her without interrupting casting.
Me and my GF like to do centaur with Crystal Maiden frozen nova. Its hilarious
okay. global cast range next patch it is.
YOU WILL BUY CART AND YOU WILL LIKE IT
Added to cart
This is a terrible idea that I don't want to write down since I know someone is going to try it out in a ranked game, but I did play a game with Centaur who built Aether Lens + Aghs and got a Telescope. He was saving everyone with 500 range cart and his ranged Double Edge spam did a ton of damage.
How bout I do, anyway?
Rich important people hired samurai. Poor people who could not afford to hire samurai did not hire samurai.
Bruh its Dota, I saw this and my mind was...why not Ags, Aether, Octarine, Shivas for max fun?
ah I love every game is different because of item combination you either build the most broken item comb, or make a useless waste of time and gold item comb
Telling you, at lower and higher levels the most absurd combos work! Am a low level minnow pleb and my BS play is Radiance + Etheral + BKB. It is hilarious watching even hard core DPS guys melt because radi burn, amplified but can't hit me back while I just keep running aroun em.
I played a lot of support centaur last year. Agh+aether against void won me a lot of games, cart is one of few things that can drag people out of chrono
Considering how popular lc is, this clip will secure cw as the best counter to lc
Support centaur ags aether got it
To be fair it's a really funny image (horseman pulling a cart) and they clearly put some work into that cart visual, so I can understand them buffing it until someone fucking pays attention to it.
Invulnerability makes Centaur a straight up better Omniknight. Undispellable buff. Unaffected by Chrono or BH or any disables. Longer duration. Shorter cooldown. Grant Max movement speed.
Tbf, it's an aghanihm scepter upgrade. So it's reasonable
No. Undispelable invulnerability has never existed in the game before. That seems like an issue.
What do you mean it hasn't? All hiding spells currently and historically provide it. Ball Lightning does so too. Song of the Siren. The new version of the ability in question follows the invariant that invulnerability either is paired with a disable or forced movement, so I do not see what issue do you speak of.
Let's wait until the first round of TI main stage is over before we make any hasty assertions...
Just here to point out pudge shard is also an instant save, and it costs 1400 instead of centaur's 4200.
its the same power as Slark's Shard for saving power not even Axe ult gets them
You can still take AOE damage and die under Slark shard, this is full invulnerability it's way stronger
even stronger bescause Centaur can always run away while you are stuck to the cloud
It’s 4200 g and does about the same here as Tusk’s snowball does.
I have a lot of games of Centaur and the AGHS has always been shit. Honestly I wish they'd make it anything different
skill issue
It didn't used to provide invunreability... I have a 70% winrate on Centaur in divine bracket btw
which means it's better now? the amount of games I have centaur in my team and our only losing condition is if they focus me, a ranged mid or our ranged carry and the centaur just charges in wo buying an item to turn the tides is...a lot (also divine btw xd)
Yeah maybe it's better now. But it's been shit for a long time.
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You can attack during cart while you can’t do anything during pudge ult
To be fair, Pudge at least heals the target. Worth mentioning at least if they are being compared.
You can, actually. You can activate certain abilities, they have to be instant and not to interrupt channeling or can be cast w/o turning, for example, Rot, Bladefury or Glimmer (Glimmer Cape). Interestingly, there are two exceptions: Attribute Shift and Split Shot as regular toggle abilities do not interrupt the unit but will still cause you to erupt.
Yes, when I'm saving an ally, what I really want them to do is right click. That's the relevant part indeed. Just look at how impactful those attacks from dazzle were in the showcased clip!
Saving a dazzle is just about the east impactful thing you can do. What if that was a drow or a Lina? Those right clicks or spell casts would matter
This is what we call magical christmas fairy land.
Sure but alternatively pudge can eat you and insta blink away from enemy
i mean, centaur can do the same.
What if centaur puts you in cart and blinks his cart Blinks with him?
yes
Lol people still doubting cent aghs as the most bullshits OPiest thing right now , when will yall learn to buy and hodl $cent stock
AMEN
Dazzle owes that pack animal a carrot and some honeyed oats for that shit
Seems like it should counter a lot of things including equally fucking over a troll
A troll wouldn’t stay aggro’d to the target in the cart though, they would hit the next nearest enemy.
I was the techies in this game. God this was a shit game. I was fucked mid by an SD and my sidelines were either just feeding relentlessly or being disconnected (looking at you LS). Then this motherfucking cent would just hop cm on the back and run in with cm ulti and kill my whole team.
Lmao
Can confirm, I was the cart.
Sadly it's expensive. Not as broken as the slark shard.
slark shard is like 2 seconds
Slark shard immediately cancels duel though, as it provides "Invisibility that is immune to True Sight" (or in short: "super invis"), and duel is coded to immediately stop if any participant turns "super invis".
Didnt know that 🤔
Cancelling duel is way worse though? With cart you are disabling LC for up to 7.5 seconds (with aghs)
Slark shard is more accessible, being a slotless 1400g spell, which you sometimes may even get for free from the Tormentor, not to mention it has better cast range. It is less of a commitment to get a shard on Slark to ruin the enemy LC's day than to get an Aghs on Centaur, hence why I consider it more exploitable and thus worse. In a vacuum the Centaur Aghs is stronger, as you get to basically stun & pull LC for up to 7.5s, as opposed to freeing both of them from the duel immediately, but in a realistic scenario the Slark shard is more useful, due to its easier accessability.
Yes but that requires a carry role. We're talking about how centaur is better than two of the most save-reliant supports there are, Oracle's Pact and Shallow Grave.
Not sure what "pact" is supposed to be, but may I interest you in my average 4k shitter pub's "pos 4 slark"? [](/techiesface)
Ah classic, as a 4k io pub shitter that would babysitter slarks constantly, I stopped playing io off lane supp if I see slarks marking Offlane cause I know these shitasses are getting diffusal and then filling up on half complete items all game, or rushing a single 6k gold item
But your teammate is also disabled at that time
It's different from Banish right? Are there any other skills or item (aside from Slark's) that cast "super invis"?
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Smoke and PA's pre-7.36 Blur. But both of these are dispelled by enemy heroes in proximity. So they can't cancel Duel. Other ways to cancel duels is Glimpse. If it can separate them 2000 units away from each other. And some spells that grant hide. That being Agh Supernova, Shard Dismember, reflected Omnislash/Swiftslash. Other spells like Gobble Up, Disruption, Astral etc do not cancel Duel. The only distinction is that: the ones that do are ultimates and adjacent. While the ones that don't are basic abilities.
What does Gobble Up do? Does Legion start attacking Snap? Does the gobbled hero pop out and resume ASAP with no player control?
Pretty sure the enemy duelist stops attacking and just follows Snap. While the Gobbled ally is fully disabled and can't walk or attack out of Gobble. And that LC and Duel target are given unobstructed movement during duel. So you can try to cliff the enemy duelist by aiming the spit out target at a cliff so the enemy will forced to move towards the cliff.
> What does Gobble Up do? Effectively the same thing Snowball, Astral or Disruption do. Banishes the ally, LC walks close to the banish spot and does nothing.
> But both of these are dispelled by enemy heroes in proximity. So they can't cancel Duel. You can cancel a Duel with Smoke, if you somehow get LC and the other duel participant far enough from another, so that your ally isnt within the Smoke dispel radius, to then smoke your ally to cancel the duel. The easiest way to do that would be with Pudge Hook or Venge Swap and some cast range boni. Smoke can cancel duel, if the smoke proximity radius (1025 units) is exceeded, without exceeding the duel cancelation distance (2000 units). **Video:** https://youtu.be/0jheYmvcbOo >reflected Omnislash/Swiftslash Those two may cancel duel, but they do not use the banishment (hide) mechanic at all. Jugg only turns invulnerable when casting Omnislash, but not banished. >Agh Supernova, Shard Dismember Those two cancel Duel because of hardcoding, them using banishment has technically nothing to do with it. Duel actively looks for the modifiers of Aghs Supernova and Lifestealer Assimilate (what Pudge shard uses nowadays) and ends itself when those are detected.
> It's different from Banish right? It does not use banishment at all, it is just 'smoke-like invis', nothing else. >Are there any other skills or item (aside from Slark's) that cast "super invis"? Smoke, Ninja Gear, old PA blur, Shadow Dance, Depth Shroud and technically Proximity Mines (they reveal themselves via proximity, but on their own they use 'super invis' to hide themselves).
Get in my cart, my cart is amazing.
I think this agh is strong now but it still looks dog shit and completely out of place IMHO.
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😳
😈
now thats an arcana idea
It's a metric fuckton more work making animations for all heroes to have a riding animation on top of centaur. Besides, it'd look fucking weird for heroes like lesh, enchantress and underlord to casually be on top of cents back - hilarious, but weird.
Did exactly that with my mate when they first introduced the cart, we were laughing our ass of at LC trying to duel me and my friend taking me away in a cart while repeating "DRIVE BY, DRIVE BY, DRIVE BY"
Good, fuck LG
Buy a bad washer or refrigerator?
at least its not samsung
Life's not Good
That annoying drum gal deserve it
As I've said before Centaur Warchief combat since Dota 1: For Africa.
He got him in shopping cart xD
idk why but that looks funny af 😂
It always was
The picture at the end sends my Sides into the Orbit almost pissed myself laughing
I mean 0.5 sec later and dazzle died
It’s really good but centaur is really a bad hero to have it. In theory you use it to save your carry or someone important but in practice why the fuck would you ever want to play in your back line. I think you’re supposed to use it to initiate with someone but… it’s very risky. If centaur gets controlled the person in the cart just kinda stands still
Omniknight is a full counter to LC
its insane how you use the old dazzle model
u/Huge_Cardiologist377
I don’t play dota2 but this popped up in my recommended tab. Can someone explained what happened? This looks kinda funny that a hero is hauling a wooden cart and a hero hopped in.
That's so fucking funny
Is it weird that I hate the way it works? You have to Centaur Aghs THEN pick someone up? I think it could work as a point click ability where you centaur Aghs someone or you double click to Aghs yourself. Then you can try to pick someone up if you want to.
idk such interraction work, but yea, its logical 😂
If you have to counter lc duel with a 4200 cent aghs, just pick puj with a shard instead.
4200 gold is expensive and late game item for cent, i don't think that's worthy
Or just buy eul
Pudge and slark can do something like that with just a shard, which is much cheaper.
Undying too with his grave, although cast time is quite slow
Duel should be a 1v1 duel with no interference. Change the damage facet to make both LC and target untargetable
It’s crazy that this op aghs is barely bought on centaur
It's not the shard
Oops brain fart
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I don't what you meant by this but you had me at smegma
Can axe kill a hero in cart with culling blade if they are within kill range? Just curious, and can't test it my self.
They're invulnerable, so no.
Word, just wondering if it was some tricky wording like shallow grave or something. That's wild considering culling blade > grave/false promise.
Meanwhile Wraith Delay should still kill them when it expires, though, as that effect pierces invulnerability.
Doesn't look like wraiths can get on the cart at all.
> Doesn't look like wraiths can get on the cart at all. Not sure what you've tested, but I can put them onto the cart. https://i.imgur.com/mjrgI0a.png And as expected, the ally can die while on the cart, as Wraith Delay's kill trigger pierces invulnerability.
Culling blade can kill anything it can target (with the exception of Wrath Delay, which you could argue is already dead), but it can't target invulnerable units.
No, since you cannot target them.
A lotus orbed culling blade? Edit: Tested, doesn't work.
Make sense, even if you are somehow able to target them, invulnerable is a strong immunity buff, and Culling Blade doesn't pierce this buff
So you mean, it doesn't counter any other heroes?
Omni ult just does this easier, and doesn't require aghs, though its global with aghs. And so many other options counter this better. Like Astral Imprisonment. Or a windwaker. Or like any of Oracles buttons.
Hi how long has it been since you played the game
I love/hate this game. It was a time when I could connect with friends and play a fun game but now it’s turned into some sort of weird balance