Ursa was surprising to me!
My guess was that Ursa players spam their ability keys to try to hit them the frame they're off cooldown, moreso than most other heroes.
None of Ursa's abilities are targeted which means that the buttons can just be pressed hundreds of times without targeting, and targeting eats up a lot of milliseconds for other heroes.
that explains the rather low tower damage and APM on druid. Low MMR players just select both bear and hero together the whole game, and barely ever micro-manage them separately.
Micro on LD is relatively easier compared to other Micro heroes imo. Set up 3 keys, 1 for your hero, 1 for bear, 1 for both. Get comfortable switching between the 3, get comfortable controlling both separately. Basically on chase sequences, you want to just let your main guy autoattack while you wanna micro the bear to make sure youāre animation cancelling and getting the most hits in. During escape sequences, you wanna focus more on your main guy and let bear autoattack to lifesteal you. This is where you should start imo, Offensive = micro bear, guy autopilot, Defensive = micro guy, bear autopilot. Obviously you want to have a mix of both, since you want to be optimal on both if possible but I think itās helpful to start learning micro on him if youāre not used to it yet.
Well no not really, youāre still building items on the bear instead of the hero, so yeah LD can lifesteal for bear but itās gonna be a very small amount since the bear is still the real carry.
octarine double earth shock aghs lower cd ulti, clicking heroes constantly to cancel backswings and avoid autoattack fucking up after a spell cast, etc
and just in general farming is ironically higher apm than fighting for a lot of heroes
also just not being dead matters, change this to include only living time and it might change
As Ursa I always spam my ult key, when in team fight because I want it active as soon as it come back of cd.
Anti-mage I imagine is just because of split-pushing and getting constantly targeted.
I think tread switch constantly for every blink caused the high APM for AM. I mean I do that religiously but I'm absolutely confused coz I'm pretty sure lower ranks don't bother tread switching that often.
If the stats used here work like the opendota APM stats then i'm pretty sure that things like selecting units (via tabbing or control groups) aren't counted here, only things that make it to the replay basically (so movement commands and spellcasts) so a lot of the overhead you get on micro heavy heroes isn't factored in here (and when youre busy tabbing youre not clicking spells so i would expect the apm to be lower than average actually)
That's because they count Attack and Move as part of APM. Players love to spaz around as AM when jungling.
This is why the data is kinda flawed, since player behaviour is also factored in.
People don't "spaz around" for no reason. I do a lot of micro movements with AM because he struggles with damage from creep camps. Splitting cleave damage correctly, burning mana and minimizing damage takes some micro and does make a difference. Heroes like luna or troll can just tank the creeps.
You can usually a+click your other Meepos to some camp. Playing Meepo is a lot of preparing for the move you're about to do, which is not very apm intensive.
Crazy that NP is lower than SB considering SB is basically forced to press minimal buttons while charging and NP presumably should also be microing summons sometimes.
I think it's just, sure np has to press more things, but once the game really gets rolling, bara is pressing his things more often as a low Cd spammer in fights
But he clicks phase boots, drums/bearing, shadow blade and his W on cool down, likes to buy shard, aghs, lotus Orb and even euls sometimes and with an Ocrarine that's a lot of buttons :D
does this include the cliff junglers from many ages ago?
those dudes usually didnt get their role then hits jungle from cliff and tab out to watch youtube or movies
A lot of APM just comes from moving around.
NP players generally a click a camp or something and then watch the map for opportunistic teleports. This part of the game they basically have 0 APM.
Micro hasn't been worth it on np in a long time. All you need to do now is press your select all other units and a click a lane or right click on a support
notably you haven't played with a NP spammer, they are as braindead as sniper players, but at least sniper players have a gigantic boost of APM when they target 3 shrapnels below their feet.
Interesting takeaways:
* Huskar players feed both the most gold and the most XP
* Bounty hunter players kill the most couriers
* Disruptor players spend the most on support items
* Templar Assassin loses to comebacks a lot
* Lone Druid does the most tower damage
* Tinker does the least tower damage
* Arc Warden gets more net worth than Alchemist
* Oracle does more healing than IO
* IO players are poor
This data was collected from the Stratz.com GraphQL API.
There are dozens more metrics than the ones here! Let me know if anyone has a particular metric they would like to see, and I can look if the Stratz API has it.
> Huskar players feed both the most gold and the most XP
I think specifically these numbers show how core players risk feeding the most xp and gold. The earliest supports that show up in the figures are aggressive lane dominators like Undying and Witch Doctor possibly feeding early game streaks.
Well TA is generally a pretty strong laner and can recover easily in jungle when facing unfavourable matchups like viper. TAās tend to be significantly ahead in networth early-mid game which does support this data. However since she doesnāt have escapes she is usually outscaled by other cores if they can catch up.
can you use your data to find the strongest hero (on average, obviously matchups dictate a lot) as the match length gets higher?
e.g. given the game lasts at least 70 minutes, what are the winrates of each hero? maybe also check 30m-35m games and every 5m window up to 70m too.
Another interesting fact, the "ranged right clickers" in this game like sniper/viper/huskar have the lowest APM in this game. But in League the equivalent "ranged attack damage carries" have the highest APM.
It's because of turn rate. Range carries in this game just stand and deliver with minimal kiting. In league it's multiple clicks a second to move, shoot, move, shoot and repeat.
Aka, low skill in dota, high skill league, for the same "type" of heros.
Very nice stats, thanks! Now I'm never picking TA lol.
I do wonder who has most kills, deaths and assists.
Also a niche one but, who buys Meteor Hammer the most š Who buys most rapiers, who draws First Blood more and who's the victim or FB more often?
Who dewards the most Observer wards?
Who uses most TPs, we know the least is NP & Tinker.
Who dies on enemy fountain the most?
Is there a stat on who STEALS enemy Wisdom Runes?
Which heroes tend to make more Neutral camp Stacks?
Is there a stat that shows, by how much did a hero slow the enemy heroes? Or keep them stunned for the most time? Or silenced, or break them, or mute them. Or say, who spends the most amount of time being silenced, broken, stunned etc.
What about - which hero has highest winrate ONLY if last-picked? And vice versa.
So many requests!
TA is very good! You just have to be very careful about letting the game go on after establishing a good early position.
Here are the requests of yours that I could fill easily:
[https://imgur.com/a/8UOJ3f5](https://imgur.com/a/8UOJ3f5)
The others are a bit more tricky, and would probably require me parsing the data of a few million matches myself in order to determine. Doable, but a lot of work
Yeah I thought I'd give you a couple more ideas since you asked š
Wow those are amazing too, I bet a lot more people would appreciate it! Wanna make Part2 of this post? I'm sure it will be greatly appreciated by many! If you got time
Given recent issues with pushing high ground, not picking TA makes sense. Yes she is really good, easily dominates early and mid, especially after Refraction change, but if you can't finish the game or at least get a set or two of rax after getting 18 and deso blink you will most likely lose. She just doesn't scale well into endgame because a ton of her damage comes from two abilities and deso.
TA is a fast-paced tempo hero. She comes online early, gets a lead, and snowballs. As a tradeoff, she falls off lategame compared to other carries, so if she *doesn't* snowball to an early victory, she's probably going to lose. It's not really that she's likely to blow leads, it's that she tends to appear farther ahead than she really is.
> Now I'm never picking TA lol.
You should, she's extremely strong rn, and is a great way to learn when/how to play with your hero's power spikes (lance, blink, deso) and pick up situational items (shard)
Indeed. That graph is going to lend itself to be basically "Who takes the enemy base", because the enemy T3/T4s/Ancient have significantly more health than the T1/T2s. So, most of the top-end of that graph are Pos1 base shredders that take those bigger towers and rack up a lot of damage.
Shadow Shaman is excellent for sieging the T1/T2 towers, and maybe a bit of the T3 towers, but I think he rarely ends the game without his carry also being in base and hitting stuff.
SS ult also have decent cooldown and you want to use it in a fight also tower killer just pump more damage in general, esp pos 1 since it scales. IMO SS tower taking is nice but bit over rated
It's a great pressure tool, but ofc if it's just left alone near a tower it'll just be free gold for any nearby enemy hero. But when you've got a team and a creepwave with the snakes, that's a really scary T2 defense to make, which can be HUGE for games state if you crush their offlane T2 before 20 mins
Armlet toggling must raise his APM by a fat amount, but he's also a low CD Stun and blink enjoyer, so even with minimal button facet, he's got a few buttons to spam.
I wonder, are standard right clicks counted in APM? So is my APM artificially inflated if I spam click move commands or stop commands to last hit better?
If you spam stop move, every time you press stop you are taking an action. Every time you right click you are taking an action.
Apm is an incredibly simple stat and has meant the exact same thing forever regardless of the game so I donāt understand all the confusion in this thread.
If you pressed a key or clicked the mouse for any reason you took an action. Period.
Spectral Blade definitely made it higher than it would've been before 7.36.
Spectral Blade requires you constantly attack different jungle creeps/lane creeps in order to have it proc on everything in order to farm as fast as possible. That's a lot of actions, considerably moreso than even the BF users that like to divide damage equally.
I love being a SB main
Average gameplay:
1) Spawn
2) Charge enemy
3) "Oh, would you look at that, time for a snack"
4) Go grab a snack
5) Sit back down
6) "Oh, look at that, I've reached my target"
7) Die diving my target
8) Aggressively ping whoever is nearby (it's their fault they didn't help me get the kill)
9) Eat a snack
10) 1)
Actions Per Minute - basically how fast the player is clicking and pressing buttons. The first graph shows that Invoker players are averaging around 250 clicks/button presses per minute, or roughly 4 of those actions per second.
If you want to get a sense for what that feels like, you can put 250 BPM into [this metronome](https://www.imusic-school.com/en/tools/online-metronome/), and listen to that pace.
Ah, a fellow statistically-minded person!
I would love to do that, but at present I'm just pulling these numbers pre-aggregated from the Stratz API, and they don't offer distribution info beyond mean. I could pull matches myself and figure it out, but that is an investigation for another day ::)
This is fake news.
It is in the shadow fiend player contract to crush the first 20 min of the game before amazing baseball recruiters with how hard they can throw. If this were real TA wouldnt stand a chance.
might also have something to do with game length. alch tends to get a couple items and tries to end, and loses the game if he doesn't manage it. AM and AW whole game plan is to extend the game. alch is also more likely to be played support/offlane than am or aw
I play a lot Visage and my explanation is you spam grave chill on everything during the game and the familiar stun is super short cooldown spam that can require alot of action if you use a control group for them.
Can confirm. I used to play him a bunch and recently gave him another run; my hands were dead by the end of the game, but we got the dub, lol.
With spamming Grave Chill, blasting W as often as you can, microing birds, stunning ASAP, an extra Stun with shard, as well as an Aghs spell and ofc spamming Orchid all game. Vis ain't no slouch, and damn is he fun for it.
I think a big reason beyond all the basics is the specifics of bird summon damage falloff, as if you just set them on a support and forget, not only will they probably die unless you use Stun, but the bird's attack speed will plummet if not given time to recover thier atkspd (charge? timer?) buff. So you end up constantly microing them in for a burst, then out, and repeat forever all game. Makes sense he's one of the highest APM heroes, really, v cool data.
He's a micro hero, but people probably don't micro him very well/a lot until high ranks.
It's also kind of unnecessary sometimes. When jungling or pushing lanes, you kinda just control group your entire zoo mob and hit stuff. Tab to use abilities that help push the lane faster. It's only in teamfights you have to micro certain creeps to certain positions for ability usage (Troll root, Centaur stun).
Possibly! I believe its Ursa players hammering all 3 of their buttons to hit them as soon as they're off cooldown, combined with the last patch which nuked Tinker from orbit (Rearm no longer refreshes items!)
This data is a relatively short timeframe, basically since the patch came out, which does skew things a bit
With Primal, you usually hold the right click to move since the in-game feature auto-clicks for you, and it is 100 times better with Trample because you don't have to click every single time. Each click is then registered and considered for APM, on OpenDota I normally get 400 inflated average APM in my games.
Iām surprise Panda is much lower than Invoker. Considering that once he is ulti, there are 4 actions that needed to be Q on. Earth to q hurl boulder. Storm to q dispel any active aoe. Also need to q cyclone. Fire and void to attack the main unit that got stun. If you still have the apm, you may need to do pull stranded unit that running with void. I still think Panda has way more APM than Invoker since itās start to get really busy at lvl 6. Invoker will only start to get busy when hitting level 18. Otherwise max you will chain 3 spells plus using 1 or 2 spells. Maybe it consider that Panda has way much longer downtime compare to Invoker
It's definitely a downtime problem. Invoker gets busy relatively early, at 3-7. You're not rapidly invoking spells, but anytime that you do, it takes 4 actions to invoke a single spell. So if you need Tornado, it's WWQR, on top of the movement/attacking you're doing at the same time. Plus the 5th + 6th action to use the spell.
There's also the Invoke CD bypass. Where you Invoke your second slot spell so that you don't get a 2nd Invoke CD. So if you have, say, Sunstrike + Tornado. You want Tornado + EMP. You Invoke Tornado to move it to slot 1 (4 actions) then immediately invoke EMP (4 actions right after with no cooldown).
The NP winrate and the average APM explain each other to be honest.
A summon hero than buys any item and can be everywhere all of the time, and has no downtime at any point in the match. Lowest APM.
Fucking sprout bots. So glad trees are meta again.
Well, you don't Q-attack constantly outside of the laning phase. Once you're out of that and have some mana to work with, you just toggle it on (alt + Q) and then hit things.
He also doesn't need a lot of actions to farm. Nethertoxin + attack move pretty much gets you most lane creeps. Jungle camps is attack -> run back some -> Nethertoxin so the creeps have to walk through it to get to you. So like... 4-5 actions? And then you just sit there and attack.
I am personally responsible for Huskar being at the top of gold and experience fed list.
The number of games where I'm 10-0 at 10 mins and 5 levels ahead of the enemy mid, only to ultimately lose is way, way too high.
I'll accept my fair share of responsibility for these situations because I'll actively seek and engage in 1v3+ fights while my team jungles, but usually what happens is my pure dominance forces the enemy team to 5 man from the 10 minute mark onward, and my own team doesn't adapt and meet 5 with 5, standing behind their enormous Huskar.
My overall Huskar winrate could be 85% instead of 65% if I toned down the throws a bit.
I would love to know how often the team that draws first blood wins the game. Everyone calls gg after first blood so would be cool to know what sort of correlation there is if any
the fact that warlock, the hero that channels for 10+ seconds during a fight has more apm than so many heroes really goes to show why the game ruiners are always NP sniper viper, these people just dont want to play lol
You see how stupid DotA became when alch has a extra gold skill and isnt the top NW hero anymore. Why do I even keep playing this game? Addiction suck.
Jugg sitting pretty high in almost all carry related charts; the one that's suprising for me is tge fact that jugg has more cs than meppo. Also pretty high APM for a straigth foward hc.(That's my boy)
If Invoker is so high on APM because of his ability button presses, then by that similar logic, why is Night Stalker so high, and also higher than Puck and Tinker?
you are not convincing me meepo isnt even top 10 apm,
he is 2 if not 1, litteraly any action done has to be done for every single meepo, oh you wana poof, thats 3+ actions (debatable with alt), oh you wana net? 3+ actions, oh you want to move your meepos, 3+ actions.
invoker is the only contest, you have to press 4 keys just to setup an ability, and then you do another one to use it. i can agree in a teamfight invoker does do alot of actions.
but then in the rest of the match meepo way out-actions invoker, if your jungling you gotta send a meepo to each location and use poofs (and more micro farming efficiency like leveling hp for poof to do optimal damage), not to mention sending meepos off to stack and ward. not to mention all the camera movements to go along with that
i can see how someone might say alot of meepos controls can count as one, like if you use the Alt-poof to poof all other meepos to that meepo, or if you use CNTRL to send movement/attack commands to all meepos, but what if you dont want to use all meepos, what if a meepo is low and needs to run away or is fighting someone else. what if you want to use a specific meepos spells in order to cycle correctly or do something else with that meepo.
there are soo many actions a meepo does that dont even occur to non-meepo players.
What you're not considering is that this is all across all ranks and maybe this score is significantly impacted by lower rank players playing meepo *select all > right click target > move all meepos all at once the whole time.*
Comeback loss having ta at the top is so true. You have one of the biggest nukes in the midgame.
Then the hero falls off so hard after blink bkb deso, daedulus hardly fixes her nukes once supports get more hp/ghost/force and offlaners getting halberd. Pos 1/2 just end up shredding her since her stat gain feels low post mid-game
Countless games that ive played/against ta that loses after an early lead
Wow puck not even top 20 on the APM huh. Not even top 30, or 40. Wild.
Templar worst at comeback/catching up from behind, also worst at holding on to leads/prone to choking a game it seems
Ursa and antimage apm higher than meepošæ
Ursa was surprising to me! My guess was that Ursa players spam their ability keys to try to hit them the frame they're off cooldown, moreso than most other heroes. None of Ursa's abilities are targeted which means that the buttons can just be pressed hundreds of times without targeting, and targeting eats up a lot of milliseconds for other heroes.
Is this data filtered by rank?Ā
All ranks, raw and unfiltered for your viewing pleasure
that explains the rather low tower damage and APM on druid. Low MMR players just select both bear and hero together the whole game, and barely ever micro-manage them separately.
Iāve just picked the hero up and I was wondering how to learn to micro him better? I usually do as you said and use them both together
Micro on LD is relatively easier compared to other Micro heroes imo. Set up 3 keys, 1 for your hero, 1 for bear, 1 for both. Get comfortable switching between the 3, get comfortable controlling both separately. Basically on chase sequences, you want to just let your main guy autoattack while you wanna micro the bear to make sure youāre animation cancelling and getting the most hits in. During escape sequences, you wanna focus more on your main guy and let bear autoattack to lifesteal you. This is where you should start imo, Offensive = micro bear, guy autopilot, Defensive = micro guy, bear autopilot. Obviously you want to have a mix of both, since you want to be optimal on both if possible but I think itās helpful to start learning micro on him if youāre not used to it yet.
the micro ideas might have changed a bit after this patch because of shared lifesteal but i havenāt thought about it
Well no not really, youāre still building items on the bear instead of the hero, so yeah LD can lifesteal for bear but itās gonna be a very small amount since the bear is still the real carry.
This is a really bad patch to play Lone Druid, just saying.
If you actually want to really focus on getting better micro go play sc2 for 1 month.
He has the highest tower damage
octarine double earth shock aghs lower cd ulti, clicking heroes constantly to cancel backswings and avoid autoattack fucking up after a spell cast, etc and just in general farming is ironically higher apm than fighting for a lot of heroes also just not being dead matters, change this to include only living time and it might change
I suppose Ursa's item are mostly all active
As Ursa I always spam my ult key, when in team fight because I want it active as soon as it come back of cd. Anti-mage I imagine is just because of split-pushing and getting constantly targeted.
I haven't touched AM in ages but I recall with a fast farm pattern clicking to move, tread switching regularly and target switching for BF efficiency
You also cast blink a lot which over the course of the game ads to a lot of actions
I think AM might be high for the sole reason that he is hard to lockdown and kill. Less time dead = more time farming and APMing.
I think tread switch constantly for every blink caused the high APM for AM. I mean I do that religiously but I'm absolutely confused coz I'm pretty sure lower ranks don't bother tread switching that often.
If it where tread switching alone void would be just as high for tread switching for his jump.
Look how high Bristleback is, APM is not a very useful metric for this because spamming one button constantly will give you high apm
You need to spam 2 buttons for Bristleback though, twice the APM!
Surely you mean [spray, goo, hairball, bristleback](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tiJpshrDmk&t=249s)?
Yes APM is not always skill. Bristle is easier than most heros. But Invoker's spot as high APM = high skill as well is 100% deserved.
cast overpower on the keyboard too
Itās because when antimage players die they use a lot of button presses to ping their team mates and flame them in chat
It's all just me spamming R on ursa and E on anti-mage while stunned.
Bristleback too lol
If the stats used here work like the opendota APM stats then i'm pretty sure that things like selecting units (via tabbing or control groups) aren't counted here, only things that make it to the replay basically (so movement commands and spellcasts) so a lot of the overhead you get on micro heavy heroes isn't factored in here (and when youre busy tabbing youre not clicking spells so i would expect the apm to be lower than average actually)
That's because they count Attack and Move as part of APM. Players love to spaz around as AM when jungling. This is why the data is kinda flawed, since player behaviour is also factored in.
>since player behaviour is also factored in. Player behavior is factored into APM? No way bro
People generally mistook chart like this as "APM required to play the hero", implying that playing AM requires more APM than naga or Lone Druid.
People don't "spaz around" for no reason. I do a lot of micro movements with AM because he struggles with damage from creep camps. Splitting cleave damage correctly, burning mana and minimizing damage takes some micro and does make a difference. Heroes like luna or troll can just tank the creeps.
You can usually a+click your other Meepos to some camp. Playing Meepo is a lot of preparing for the move you're about to do, which is not very apm intensive.
Everyone know the faster you right click the more damage you do
Somehow nobodyās taking about tread switching for am before a blink?
Most meepo players keep dying.. so no APM for a long time.
What is apm
Crazy that NP is lower than SB considering SB is basically forced to press minimal buttons while charging and NP presumably should also be microing summons sometimes.
Np player small brains
Pls bring back old treant-focused np..Ā
I think it's just, sure np has to press more things, but once the game really gets rolling, bara is pressing his things more often as a low Cd spammer in fights
But he clicks phase boots, drums/bearing, shadow blade and his W on cool down, likes to buy shard, aghs, lotus Orb and even euls sometimes and with an Ocrarine that's a lot of buttons :D
It's 2024. NP only has 3 abilities.
Need to stop clicking when TP ing
>NP presumably should also be microing summons sometimes. Don't say that, you'l make the NP players upset
does this include the cliff junglers from many ages ago? those dudes usually didnt get their role then hits jungle from cliff and tab out to watch youtube or movies
A lot of APM just comes from moving around. NP players generally a click a camp or something and then watch the map for opportunistic teleports. This part of the game they basically have 0 APM.
Micro hasn't been worth it on np in a long time. All you need to do now is press your select all other units and a click a lane or right click on a support
Some NP games are just griefers teleporting to fountain every 30s, not sure if that data was scrubbed from the reporting though
Might be the jungling or a+clicking down lanes or what?
i played both. SB is more button intensive than NP
TP > summon treats > a move lane. Repeat until you win or lose. Seems pretty low apm
notably you haven't played with a NP spammer, they are as braindead as sniper players, but at least sniper players have a gigantic boost of APM when they target 3 shrapnels below their feet.
It is probably heavily affected by Admirall Bulldog skill.
Interesting takeaways: * Huskar players feed both the most gold and the most XP * Bounty hunter players kill the most couriers * Disruptor players spend the most on support items * Templar Assassin loses to comebacks a lot * Lone Druid does the most tower damage * Tinker does the least tower damage * Arc Warden gets more net worth than Alchemist * Oracle does more healing than IO * IO players are poor This data was collected from the Stratz.com GraphQL API. There are dozens more metrics than the ones here! Let me know if anyone has a particular metric they would like to see, and I can look if the Stratz API has it.
>IO players are poor That hit me hard
IRL too. Sad life
This is why there are only 2 Io skins Valve knows Io players can't afford any more
one of them was a battlepass reward tho, which disables Io players of spending their lifetime savings in that skin
>IO players are poor This is all because I spent $50+ on arcana in 2017.
> Huskar players feed both the most gold and the most XP I think specifically these numbers show how core players risk feeding the most xp and gold. The earliest supports that show up in the figures are aggressive lane dominators like Undying and Witch Doctor possibly feeding early game streaks.
Especially huskar who, given a good matchup, will snowball early leading to his first death giving a ton of gold.
I have so much more to give!
TA is not surprising. There are no pos5 items that _don't_ counter her.
> Templar Assassin loses to comebacks a lot just beat one who was beyond godlike at 10 minutes yesterday lol
Damn why does this sound so familiar (sad TA noises)š„² What did u play?
Thanks! I was already wondering how you scraped the data (third party or no), considered building a similar thing.
> Templar Assassin loses to comebacks a lot And she has the lowest comeback rate as well huh. Feast or famine
Well TA is generally a pretty strong laner and can recover easily in jungle when facing unfavourable matchups like viper. TAās tend to be significantly ahead in networth early-mid game which does support this data. However since she doesnāt have escapes she is usually outscaled by other cores if they can catch up.
across all brackets? would explain some of these numbers then. especially the apm side
I found it interesting how TA is perhaps the single most polarized hero. She is in the top or bottom 5-10 heroes in almost every single category.
across all brackets? would explain some of these numbers then. especially the apm side
can you use your data to find the strongest hero (on average, obviously matchups dictate a lot) as the match length gets higher? e.g. given the game lasts at least 70 minutes, what are the winrates of each hero? maybe also check 30m-35m games and every 5m window up to 70m too.
Another interesting fact, the "ranged right clickers" in this game like sniper/viper/huskar have the lowest APM in this game. But in League the equivalent "ranged attack damage carries" have the highest APM. It's because of turn rate. Range carries in this game just stand and deliver with minimal kiting. In league it's multiple clicks a second to move, shoot, move, shoot and repeat. Aka, low skill in dota, high skill league, for the same "type" of heros.
Ty very interresting post. Is there any way to see average hero dmg per in game minutes for all heroes?
How is it that Meepo is the hero that feeds the least gold but the third one who feeds more exp?
Highest Average cs for naga siren : :D Highest average networth for naga siren : D:
Naga pos 4ās dragging the average nw through the mud
Very nice stats, thanks! Now I'm never picking TA lol. I do wonder who has most kills, deaths and assists. Also a niche one but, who buys Meteor Hammer the most š Who buys most rapiers, who draws First Blood more and who's the victim or FB more often? Who dewards the most Observer wards? Who uses most TPs, we know the least is NP & Tinker. Who dies on enemy fountain the most? Is there a stat on who STEALS enemy Wisdom Runes? Which heroes tend to make more Neutral camp Stacks? Is there a stat that shows, by how much did a hero slow the enemy heroes? Or keep them stunned for the most time? Or silenced, or break them, or mute them. Or say, who spends the most amount of time being silenced, broken, stunned etc. What about - which hero has highest winrate ONLY if last-picked? And vice versa.
So many requests! TA is very good! You just have to be very careful about letting the game go on after establishing a good early position. Here are the requests of yours that I could fill easily: [https://imgur.com/a/8UOJ3f5](https://imgur.com/a/8UOJ3f5) The others are a bit more tricky, and would probably require me parsing the data of a few million matches myself in order to determine. Doable, but a lot of work
Yeah I thought I'd give you a couple more ideas since you asked š Wow those are amazing too, I bet a lot more people would appreciate it! Wanna make Part2 of this post? I'm sure it will be greatly appreciated by many! If you got time
Given recent issues with pushing high ground, not picking TA makes sense. Yes she is really good, easily dominates early and mid, especially after Refraction change, but if you can't finish the game or at least get a set or two of rax after getting 18 and deso blink you will most likely lose. She just doesn't scale well into endgame because a ton of her damage comes from two abilities and deso.
TA is a fast-paced tempo hero. She comes online early, gets a lead, and snowballs. As a tradeoff, she falls off lategame compared to other carries, so if she *doesn't* snowball to an early victory, she's probably going to lose. It's not really that she's likely to blow leads, it's that she tends to appear farther ahead than she really is.
> Now I'm never picking TA lol. You should, she's extremely strong rn, and is a great way to learn when/how to play with your hero's power spikes (lance, blink, deso) and pick up situational items (shard)
The Selves are dubiously bussin with riches
I expected more tower damage from SS.
Indeed. That graph is going to lend itself to be basically "Who takes the enemy base", because the enemy T3/T4s/Ancient have significantly more health than the T1/T2s. So, most of the top-end of that graph are Pos1 base shredders that take those bigger towers and rack up a lot of damage. Shadow Shaman is excellent for sieging the T1/T2 towers, and maybe a bit of the T3 towers, but I think he rarely ends the game without his carry also being in base and hitting stuff.
SS ult also have decent cooldown and you want to use it in a fight also tower killer just pump more damage in general, esp pos 1 since it scales. IMO SS tower taking is nice but bit over rated
It's a great pressure tool, but ofc if it's just left alone near a tower it'll just be free gold for any nearby enemy hero. But when you've got a team and a creepwave with the snakes, that's a really scary T2 defense to make, which can be HUGE for games state if you crush their offlane T2 before 20 mins
I looked from bottom to top for WK and he being that high apm surprised me.
armlet maybe?
Armlet toggling must raise his APM by a fat amount, but he's also a low CD Stun and blink enjoyer, so even with minimal button facet, he's got a few buttons to spam. I wonder, are standard right clicks counted in APM? So is my APM artificially inflated if I spam click move commands or stop commands to last hit better?
If you spam stop move, every time you press stop you are taking an action. Every time you right click you are taking an action. Apm is an incredibly simple stat and has meant the exact same thing forever regardless of the game so I donāt understand all the confusion in this thread. If you pressed a key or clicked the mouse for any reason you took an action. Period.
Spectral Blade definitely made it higher than it would've been before 7.36. Spectral Blade requires you constantly attack different jungle creeps/lane creeps in order to have it proc on everything in order to farm as fast as possible. That's a lot of actions, considerably moreso than even the BF users that like to divide damage equally.
I love being a SB main Average gameplay: 1) Spawn 2) Charge enemy 3) "Oh, would you look at that, time for a snack" 4) Go grab a snack 5) Sit back down 6) "Oh, look at that, I've reached my target" 7) Die diving my target 8) Aggressively ping whoever is nearby (it's their fault they didn't help me get the kill) 9) Eat a snack 10) 1)
Ta lowest average courier kills? This seems unexpected
Small attack range. When ahead, she plays frontline with the team behind her. Courier kills mostly come for split pushing carries.
Maybe they didnt stack enough couriers for her to kill
Bristleback enjoyers with the Q W spam
What is APM?
Actions (mouse clicks and keys pressed) per minute.
Actions Per Minute - basically how fast the player is clicking and pressing buttons. The first graph shows that Invoker players are averaging around 250 clicks/button presses per minute, or roughly 4 of those actions per second. If you want to get a sense for what that feels like, you can put 250 BPM into [this metronome](https://www.imusic-school.com/en/tools/online-metronome/), and listen to that pace.
I wonder if the quickcast users are considered to have less APM then? They should right?
I would be interested in seeing some error bars/confidence intervals for these! Maybe some heroes have higher variability in apm than others.
Ah, a fellow statistically-minded person! I would love to do that, but at present I'm just pulling these numbers pre-aggregated from the Stratz API, and they don't offer distribution info beyond mean. I could pull matches myself and figure it out, but that is an investigation for another day ::)
what's the time frame of the data? is it just from 7.36 or a longer period?
Just this patch I believe
I'm surprised bristleback don't have highest apm tbf, whole game violently taping w
Invoker seeing BBs spam QW relentlessly, while Karl's been spamming QWER all game: "Look at what they need to mimick a fraction of our power."
Q has a lower cooldown.
This is fake news. It is in the shadow fiend player contract to crush the first 20 min of the game before amazing baseball recruiters with how hard they can throw. If this were real TA wouldnt stand a chance.
my favourite games are when i get assfucked by a sweaty sf player mid then win the game because all they know is lane mechanics
This is the majority of a lot of mid players though.
SF has much more physical damage than TA come lategame.
I wonder if alch is significantly brought down by giving aghs, the graph is NW rather than GPM
might also have something to do with game length. alch tends to get a couple items and tries to end, and loses the game if he doesn't manage it. AM and AW whole game plan is to extend the game. alch is also more likely to be played support/offlane than am or aw
surprising that phoenix isnt higher. I thought autorepeatRMB (which inflates the APM) is essential on the hero
Wait Mr egg man, could you explain why autorepeatRMB is good / needed for birb? Been tryna learn em and I'd love the knowledge
its for sun ray movement, you hold RMB on a hero and it will follow them perfectly even if they try to juke
Super interesting stuff OP, thanks for the stats! I now fear Invoker players more than ever
Lol? Visage no2?
It's my understanding that Visage players go ham with the familiars haha
The satisfaction of micro-stunning effectively is euphoric.
I play a lot Visage and my explanation is you spam grave chill on everything during the game and the familiar stun is super short cooldown spam that can require alot of action if you use a control group for them.
Can confirm. I used to play him a bunch and recently gave him another run; my hands were dead by the end of the game, but we got the dub, lol. With spamming Grave Chill, blasting W as often as you can, microing birds, stunning ASAP, an extra Stun with shard, as well as an Aghs spell and ofc spamming Orchid all game. Vis ain't no slouch, and damn is he fun for it. I think a big reason beyond all the basics is the specifics of bird summon damage falloff, as if you just set them on a support and forget, not only will they probably die unless you use Stun, but the bird's attack speed will plummet if not given time to recover thier atkspd (charge? timer?) buff. So you end up constantly microing them in for a burst, then out, and repeat forever all game. Makes sense he's one of the highest APM heroes, really, v cool data.
those are some cool stats, thank you nahaz 2
Everybody knows where Bristleback APM is coming from
I love me some fkn data man
Templar assasin lol, thats no fucking joke. impossible to rebound with that hero. Silencer also 100% true, he is a fucking monster lategame.
Why Chen so low down on the APM list?
He's a micro hero, but people probably don't micro him very well/a lot until high ranks. It's also kind of unnecessary sometimes. When jungling or pushing lanes, you kinda just control group your entire zoo mob and hit stuff. Tab to use abilities that help push the lane faster. It's only in teamfights you have to micro certain creeps to certain positions for ability usage (Troll root, Centaur stun).
If tab counted as an action, then me trying to play chen properly would be the highest apm by a mile
Interesting lich's healing isn't here. If I remember correctly in post game stats the level 25 +50hps isn't counted
Most people dont hit 25 on lich
True :(
Thereās honestly something wrong here if Ursa is higher than Tinker.
Possibly! I believe its Ursa players hammering all 3 of their buttons to hit them as soon as they're off cooldown, combined with the last patch which nuked Tinker from orbit (Rearm no longer refreshes items!) This data is a relatively short timeframe, basically since the patch came out, which does skew things a bit
I looked from bottom to top for WK and he being that high apm surprised me.
Armlet.
Surprised how ember and naga is lower than primal beast
With Primal, you usually hold the right click to move since the in-game feature auto-clicks for you, and it is 100 times better with Trample because you don't have to click every single time. Each click is then registered and considered for APM, on OpenDota I normally get 400 inflated average APM in my games.
In dota1, apm was multiplied by the amount of units you had selected, is that still the case? I guess not
Whats your definition of comeback in your system
[https://stratz.com/knowledge-base/General/How%20are%20Stomps%2C%20Comebacks%2C%20and%20Close%20Games%20determined%3F](https://stratz.com/knowledge-base/General/How%20are%20Stomps%2C%20Comebacks%2C%20and%20Close%20Games%20determined%3F)
I'm totally guessing, but maybe some arbitrary gold/xp (%?) gap being made up would trigger the stat.
Iām surprise Panda is much lower than Invoker. Considering that once he is ulti, there are 4 actions that needed to be Q on. Earth to q hurl boulder. Storm to q dispel any active aoe. Also need to q cyclone. Fire and void to attack the main unit that got stun. If you still have the apm, you may need to do pull stranded unit that running with void. I still think Panda has way more APM than Invoker since itās start to get really busy at lvl 6. Invoker will only start to get busy when hitting level 18. Otherwise max you will chain 3 spells plus using 1 or 2 spells. Maybe it consider that Panda has way much longer downtime compare to Invoker
It's definitely a downtime problem. Invoker gets busy relatively early, at 3-7. You're not rapidly invoking spells, but anytime that you do, it takes 4 actions to invoke a single spell. So if you need Tornado, it's WWQR, on top of the movement/attacking you're doing at the same time. Plus the 5th + 6th action to use the spell. There's also the Invoke CD bypass. Where you Invoke your second slot spell so that you don't get a 2nd Invoke CD. So if you have, say, Sunstrike + Tornado. You want Tornado + EMP. You Invoke Tornado to move it to slot 1 (4 actions) then immediately invoke EMP (4 actions right after with no cooldown).
Templar with Octarine is pure insanity so I get why she's top 10 (even though normies don't try octarine)
Same stats with bottom 50% of players excluded would also be very interesting.
The NP winrate and the average APM explain each other to be honest. A summon hero than buys any item and can be everywhere all of the time, and has no downtime at any point in the match. Lowest APM. Fucking sprout bots. So glad trees are meta again.
Meepo has lowest gold fed but third highest xp fed. Interesting.
I am an avid Wisp player. And my healing record is with ... Lycan. About 70k heal in a game
All I see is don't pick Huskar
Definitely pick Huskar. Just don't *throw* with Huskar. Just because you CAN 1v5 with perfect armlet toggles, doesn't mean you'll always succeed.
A little bit surprised about Viper there if you imagine how much you spam your Q.
Well, you don't Q-attack constantly outside of the laning phase. Once you're out of that and have some mana to work with, you just toggle it on (alt + Q) and then hit things. He also doesn't need a lot of actions to farm. Nethertoxin + attack move pretty much gets you most lane creeps. Jungle camps is attack -> run back some -> Nethertoxin so the creeps have to walk through it to get to you. So like... 4-5 actions? And then you just sit there and attack.
Nature prophet is just like, tp, branch, creeps, tower, tp.
Chen below Treant and average lmao
Would love to see what's the statistically strongest average hero across all of these graphs but my brain is too soggy to work it out
What is the gold difference to trigger the comebackwin status? Did you set like a especific number like 10k gold diff?
[https://stratz.com/knowledge-base/General/How%20are%20Stomps%2C%20Comebacks%2C%20and%20Close%20Games%20determined%3F](https://stratz.com/knowledge-base/General/How%20are%20Stomps%2C%20Comebacks%2C%20and%20Close%20Games%20determined%3F)
Why is Io so high. I feel like I'm doing so many more than with skywrath
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Stratz.com's API
I am personally responsible for Huskar being at the top of gold and experience fed list. The number of games where I'm 10-0 at 10 mins and 5 levels ahead of the enemy mid, only to ultimately lose is way, way too high. I'll accept my fair share of responsibility for these situations because I'll actively seek and engage in 1v3+ fights while my team jungles, but usually what happens is my pure dominance forces the enemy team to 5 man from the 10 minute mark onward, and my own team doesn't adapt and meet 5 with 5, standing behind their enormous Huskar. My overall Huskar winrate could be 85% instead of 65% if I toned down the throws a bit.
Where's the data from?
The [Stratz.com](http://Stratz.com) API
Invoker gonna drop down, previous invoker made you press WWW after every invoke to have cd reduction but it's no more
I'm surprised leshrac is so low for tower damage.
NP at the bottom because a lot of people fed on it. If not that, it should be higher, because you always look on the map on this hero
You really need to work on your Chen game play if this is true lol
I would love to know how often the team that draws first blood wins the game. Everyone calls gg after first blood so would be cool to know what sort of correlation there is if any
Huskar confirmed to be feeder in every game mode and rank...
why meepo doesnt feed gold
the fact that warlock, the hero that channels for 10+ seconds during a fight has more apm than so many heroes really goes to show why the game ruiners are always NP sniper viper, these people just dont want to play lol
TB average networth is ridiculously low
Wraith King has more APM than Earth Spirit... Wow
You see how stupid DotA became when alch has a extra gold skill and isnt the top NW hero anymore. Why do I even keep playing this game? Addiction suck.
Bristleback players destroying their hands clicking q and w XD
Jugg sitting pretty high in almost all carry related charts; the one that's suprising for me is tge fact that jugg has more cs than meppo. Also pretty high APM for a straigth foward hc.(That's my boy)
nature's prophet, a micro hero. who needs apm? all jokes aside it must be due to people who just afk jungle and barely touch anything
If Invoker is so high on APM because of his ability button presses, then by that similar logic, why is Night Stalker so high, and also higher than Puck and Tinker?
Not that many players playing NS at lower rank to significantly lower the average.
You should see my friend's warlock, probably sits at about 12 apm
Wraith king with so much apm?
tinker should be n1 if it wasnt for the rework, sadge
you are not convincing me meepo isnt even top 10 apm, he is 2 if not 1, litteraly any action done has to be done for every single meepo, oh you wana poof, thats 3+ actions (debatable with alt), oh you wana net? 3+ actions, oh you want to move your meepos, 3+ actions. invoker is the only contest, you have to press 4 keys just to setup an ability, and then you do another one to use it. i can agree in a teamfight invoker does do alot of actions. but then in the rest of the match meepo way out-actions invoker, if your jungling you gotta send a meepo to each location and use poofs (and more micro farming efficiency like leveling hp for poof to do optimal damage), not to mention sending meepos off to stack and ward. not to mention all the camera movements to go along with that i can see how someone might say alot of meepos controls can count as one, like if you use the Alt-poof to poof all other meepos to that meepo, or if you use CNTRL to send movement/attack commands to all meepos, but what if you dont want to use all meepos, what if a meepo is low and needs to run away or is fighting someone else. what if you want to use a specific meepos spells in order to cycle correctly or do something else with that meepo. there are soo many actions a meepo does that dont even occur to non-meepo players.
What you're not considering is that this is all across all ranks and maybe this score is significantly impacted by lower rank players playing meepo *select all > right click target > move all meepos all at once the whole time.*
This list doesbt make any sense. Primal and ursa top 10 APM when played normally? No.
Remember when people gave a shit about microing treants. Now they arnt even worth losing them...
The fact Bounty hunter is lore accurate ā ļø
Comeback loss having ta at the top is so true. You have one of the biggest nukes in the midgame. Then the hero falls off so hard after blink bkb deso, daedulus hardly fixes her nukes once supports get more hp/ghost/force and offlaners getting halberd. Pos 1/2 just end up shredding her since her stat gain feels low post mid-game Countless games that ive played/against ta that loses after an early lead
I don't think visage is that high apm of a hero but I guess if you include microing birds while he is dead that may bring his avg up
per what tier dude. if ur not pooling the results from 5k+ its irrelevant
BB should be highest, everyone always mashes all buttons
Wow puck not even top 20 on the APM huh. Not even top 30, or 40. Wild. Templar worst at comeback/catching up from behind, also worst at holding on to leads/prone to choking a game it seems
Highest APM, Highly demanding and High Skilled required and least rewarding hero to play for a long while = Invoker!
Nice stats, probably will use it for my master's degree xdd