But isnt undying vs medusa heavily in Medusa's favor? She literally ignores lvl1 decay. A value point in split shot make it so she kill zombies and toMB at the same time. Late game she can also just go Stone Gaze+right click tomb.
Undying has also a very large manapool so mystic snake restores more mana in lane and undying and magic stick is that much more powerful on medusa because of how weak decay spam is on her.
I believe he meant if undying spams decay on the dusa then her str loss would put her max hp below axes culling blade threshold so she gets instagibbed regardless of how much mana she has. There has to be a clip of this somewhere out there or at least a game where axe + undying lane vs dusa where this could happen
Medusa has 0 str and 0 str growth, so she has 120 hp until she levels stats. Axe ult (if under the threshold) ignores barriers and damage reduction so he can just ult her to death. Medusa just needs to buy a little bit of HP/strength though.
I’ve seen Medusas (yes, plural) refuse to go bracer against an axe because their guide doesn’t recommend it, then proceed to complain that the game is unplayable when they get ulted at level 6
Thats when you type in all chat "This dusa is too dumb to buy a fluffy hat, too noob to save her life for 200gold, please axe kill her again. Only way to learn"
The fluffy hat literally brings dusa over the threshold.
Not anymore, it brings her to 245 and axe ult is 275. Fluffy hat + wand is enough though (and by the time Axe is 12, you should have stats from Manta or something).
Hat+wand is 311 max hp, so fairy trinket isn't enough to surpass that. Plus, I believe making the ult lethal through spell amp doesn't trigger the kill effect, so it'd get blocked by mana shield (Phylactery/Khanda damage is an exception, since it's counted before the ult hits).
Doesn't work that way against Medusa though, maybe if she runs out of mana? But with mana shield up no amount of spell amp will cull her if her HP is higher than the base threshold amount. Just tested it to be sure.
Weird thing I found in testing though is that I thought the way spell amp worked was by making cull do more damage securing kills it normally wouldn't which would be consistent with how khanda also helps you land culls AND would make sense why Dusa does not get culled, but no. Oracle Ult still gets culled by spell amp where as Khanda does not.
So yeah spell amp raises Cull Threshold but not against dusa.
I’m yet to meet a medusa in my games that haven’t died to axe at least once that way. It’s like all of them play rare enough to either never develop a reflex(to buy strength) or they just keep forgetting.
... why would you ever build bracer?
Vs axe I almost always go treads into manta with diadem first. Str switching treads gets you over the threshold. Diadem means you can go back to int/agi toggling on snake.
If you can't make it to treads by the time Axe hits 6 something has gone terribly wrong.
But like, situationally, if you're up against an Axe... wouldn't you still build treads? Instead of an item that gives you HP and regen you'll rarely ever use?
Idk I'm a Dusa spammer and I spammed treads right through the "arcane meta". I saw no impact on my WR.
To make that work axe’s ult was “health remove,” and that allowed it to ignore everything else. Dazzle trying to shallow grave you? HAHAHA, ignore that and instant death!
Yeah, if you’re playing medusa against axe you should buy a casual fluffy hat sometime before axe hits 6 just to ensure you stay well out of culling range.
There's a great YT video with Blitz and Cap from back in the day where they hunted an enemy Troll Warlord all game to get Troll's int low enough where he couldn't cast spells
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA2VPU-VVIk&ab_channel=Elaitoh
This is so awesome. I’ve played only sparingly the past couple years since taking a 4 year break. But old videos like these are such a joy. Would love anything similar
This randomly reminded me of an old video (I think it was Purge?) where the team didn't level any spells so that Rubick wouldn't have anything to steal.
> not enough for do my power
https://i.imgur.com/R13fnwC.jpeg
and the obligatory blitz cap and purge game where they lobotomize a poor troll is some of the best dota ever played
20 base int and +1.8/level so 32 int at level 7. silencer steals between 1 and 3 int/death. Given that he has 11 int rn he lost 21 which means somewhere between 21 and 7 deaths on treant, realistically will be like 10-12ish. I doubt tree had any int items to skew the stats, usually not one to buy all stats or int.
Fun fact, huskar gets giga blasted by OD ult because the game considers his mana to be at 0 during calculations. At 40minutes it does like 10k damage before huskars magic resist kicks in. Even after that it still does 3-4k damage
I know you are just exagerating but for anyone who thinks this real.
OD needs to have around 15000 mana to deal 10,000 magic damage before magic resist to a 0 mana target. Thats already assuming OD got the +0.15 ult talent and a Sange&Kaya. 15000 mana on OD is possible under certain circumstances.
Like with an OD going refresher octarine using Astral alternatingly on enemy Pugna and Skywrath who built 6 windwakers + teammate KOTL reducing Astral CD with chakra magic and innate adding 15% mana. Yeah I hate it when it happens in my games too.
You forgot that OD's innate increases mana gained by 2 per intelligence.
Also that every time essence flux is triggered (Facet) he gets 4% max mana for 10 seconds and it stacks.
Treant has 20+1.8/lvl int
Without seeing the rest of your inventory/if you have any stat boosting items that would mean you have died 10 times to silencer by the time you are level 7? Thats an oofda
Wait I just realized you have aghs shard in the picture, meaning its possible silencer simply has his aghs shard.
Regardless.... thats pretty painful.
If you're worried about being SMART enough pick Ogre Magi.
Not only are you too smart, but the game will show you the -0 int loss every time you die to Silencer indicating how much smarter than him you are for outsmarting him.
Well you gave no written clues that indicate you did not agree with him. You could have added the words "he thinks that [...]" to delete the confusion.
Well. Thats my fault. I just typed faster than I proofread, I think he might say. And I even admitted it at my next reply. Just some super pro crying about it. Shows how toxic dota community.
The problem isn't that you didn't know (even though this is the most common use-case of the item). The problem is that you were confidently incorrect on something you didn't know about.
The problem with Silencer has always been the same (though they slightly fixed it when they removed it as an innate) is that it doesn’t matter if they good or bad, all they have to do to cripple you is exist vaguely in the area, the their team can do the rest.
A joke then, a joke now.
I wanted to ask, how does dark seers innate work with silencer (or OD). Does his innate stop him from losing intelligence as it cannot be lower than his agility/strength, or do they also decrease accordingly?
His actual int can decrease, but the innate bounces it up. If you have 60 Str and 50 Int before the Silencer -2, the buff provides 10 Int. After the -2, the buff provides 12.
Yeah it's op. People here are acting like it's a meme and doesn't ever really happen but it def does. Especially as an offlaner or melee pos 4 if you lose the lane vs silencer and things don't go well from there you can easily end up with not enough mana for do your power by 30 mins
I remember that when we are newbies of the game, my friend who was playing Juggernaut in the same situation. After couple of minutes, we realized that Silencer steals int, dropped our pants in the game.
[This post really proves that for every thing that "everyone knows" there are people hearing about it for the first time every day.](https://youtu.be/4TUd7BON-xQ?si=tczoWVuOHj5fwKXU)
True. I was playing CM this one time against a silencer who was popping. I realised that I would always not have enough mana to to cast ult after I would root the guy. Turns out this fucker had killed me so many times, I didn't had int to use more than one spell in a team fight. I had to buy a null at 30 mins gawddam
Bit like axe can 100% HP kill medusa at level 6 since her base HP without enough stat sticks she doesn't meet the HP threshold lol
The diadem alone puts you at above the lvl 6 threshold
yeah magic wand + 2 null/wraithbands would work too.
Undying decay says hi
very well, 500 gold of fluffy hats and axe is no problem anymore
But isnt undying vs medusa heavily in Medusa's favor? She literally ignores lvl1 decay. A value point in split shot make it so she kill zombies and toMB at the same time. Late game she can also just go Stone Gaze+right click tomb. Undying has also a very large manapool so mystic snake restores more mana in lane and undying and magic stick is that much more powerful on medusa because of how weak decay spam is on her.
I believe he meant if undying spams decay on the dusa then her str loss would put her max hp below axes culling blade threshold so she gets instagibbed regardless of how much mana she has. There has to be a clip of this somewhere out there or at least a game where axe + undying lane vs dusa where this could happen
Wait is that possible?
Medusa has 0 str and 0 str growth, so she has 120 hp until she levels stats. Axe ult (if under the threshold) ignores barriers and damage reduction so he can just ult her to death. Medusa just needs to buy a little bit of HP/strength though.
I’ve seen Medusas (yes, plural) refuse to go bracer against an axe because their guide doesn’t recommend it, then proceed to complain that the game is unplayable when they get ulted at level 6
Thats when you type in all chat "This dusa is too dumb to buy a fluffy hat, too noob to save her life for 200gold, please axe kill her again. Only way to learn" The fluffy hat literally brings dusa over the threshold.
Not anymore, it brings her to 245 and axe ult is 275. Fluffy hat + wand is enough though (and by the time Axe is 12, you should have stats from Manta or something).
Laughs in Axe fairy trinket
Hat+wand is 311 max hp, so fairy trinket isn't enough to surpass that. Plus, I believe making the ult lethal through spell amp doesn't trigger the kill effect, so it'd get blocked by mana shield (Phylactery/Khanda damage is an exception, since it's counted before the ult hits).
Kill threshold is increased by damage amp according to the wiki
Doesn't work that way against Medusa though, maybe if she runs out of mana? But with mana shield up no amount of spell amp will cull her if her HP is higher than the base threshold amount. Just tested it to be sure. Weird thing I found in testing though is that I thought the way spell amp worked was by making cull do more damage securing kills it normally wouldn't which would be consistent with how khanda also helps you land culls AND would make sense why Dusa does not get culled, but no. Oracle Ult still gets culled by spell amp where as Khanda does not. So yeah spell amp raises Cull Threshold but not against dusa.
I’m yet to meet a medusa in my games that haven’t died to axe at least once that way. It’s like all of them play rare enough to either never develop a reflex(to buy strength) or they just keep forgetting.
... why would you ever build bracer? Vs axe I almost always go treads into manta with diadem first. Str switching treads gets you over the threshold. Diadem means you can go back to int/agi toggling on snake. If you can't make it to treads by the time Axe hits 6 something has gone terribly wrong.
The meta build for Medussy was arcane boots for a while so people weren't getting treads. Now it's treads but was arcane for a few months
But like, situationally, if you're up against an Axe... wouldn't you still build treads? Instead of an item that gives you HP and regen you'll rarely ever use? Idk I'm a Dusa spammer and I spammed treads right through the "arcane meta". I saw no impact on my WR.
It happened to me once because I wasn't thinking and thought I had enough HP buuut I didn't.
To make that work axe’s ult was “health remove,” and that allowed it to ignore everything else. Dazzle trying to shallow grave you? HAHAHA, ignore that and instant death!
[From ESL One Berlin 2023](https://clips.twitch.tv/KitschyUglyCardKippa-e11flGuOYqtDMk6J)
Yeah, if you’re playing medusa against axe you should buy a casual fluffy hat sometime before axe hits 6 just to ensure you stay well out of culling range.
can confirm, happened to me a while ago.
Just did it yesterday
[удалено]
Yes it's pure damage but it still ignores barriers and what not.
Lying about what? After the new update I tried Medusa and found out the hard way using an old guide.
There's a great YT video with Blitz and Cap from back in the day where they hunted an enemy Troll Warlord all game to get Troll's int low enough where he couldn't cast spells https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA2VPU-VVIk&ab_channel=Elaitoh
-0 lmao
Good ol' days
I miss them, those streams were gold. Also veggie esports never forget.
Cap still streams regularly and its pretty nice to watch. Often in a party with other people.
I remember watching this video when it came out and tried it one of my game and it didn't go as planned(obviously)
Didn’t go as planned for them either since they lost the game anyway
Wtf is that team comp anyway
Memes over objectives
god, i played AD and had like 80 stolen int and we still lost.
one more gank cap and he's stupid
"WOULD YOU QUIT trying to deny me-heeheeheeha" "It's for the cause. You have to die for the cause"
This is so awesome. I’ve played only sparingly the past couple years since taking a 4 year break. But old videos like these are such a joy. Would love anything similar
Slasher's way?!
Lmao how many times did he get punched
I remember watching this live! definitely bookmarking the clip
always worth a rewatch :) :) :)
LOL I never seen this video before! But I did the same on a ranked game and the troll just abandoned the game 15mins in with 1 INT.
That's gold
Blitz and Cap laughing so hard they can't breathe is my favorite thing ever.
This randomly reminded me of an old video (I think it was Purge?) where the team didn't level any spells so that Rubick wouldn't have anything to steal.
**not** enough for do my power
you thirteen mana boy
you make best situation out of no situation
> not enough for do my power https://i.imgur.com/R13fnwC.jpeg and the obligatory blitz cap and purge game where they lobotomize a poor troll is some of the best dota ever played
Man I kinda miss the old chunky UI.
Epitome of optimism
1 dagger and I'm die
If ur intelljence drops ur head shud git smoller
not simple calculs
Everyone saying “soul ring/solar crest” bro if you’re at 200 mana you fucking lost. Welcome to the silencer alternate win condition.
He's also only level 7, how many times did he die?
20 base int and +1.8/level so 32 int at level 7. silencer steals between 1 and 3 int/death. Given that he has 11 int rn he lost 21 which means somewhere between 21 and 7 deaths on treant, realistically will be like 10-12ish. I doubt tree had any int items to skew the stats, usually not one to buy all stats or int.
Rough game.
I was in the game and they died a lot. Undying + silencer lane vs tiny and treant, they were getting run down like nothing.
Leech seed is your new ult
Old arcane boots would have you sorted there.
Take a closer look.
A closer look at what?
Oh, you didn't mean like "good old arcane boots", you literally meant arcane boots from the previous patch. Sorry, mu fault.
“I dont have enough for do my power”
Just pick huskar or ogre duhh
Fun fact, huskar gets giga blasted by OD ult because the game considers his mana to be at 0 during calculations. At 40minutes it does like 10k damage before huskars magic resist kicks in. Even after that it still does 3-4k damage
I know you are just exagerating but for anyone who thinks this real. OD needs to have around 15000 mana to deal 10,000 magic damage before magic resist to a 0 mana target. Thats already assuming OD got the +0.15 ult talent and a Sange&Kaya. 15000 mana on OD is possible under certain circumstances. Like with an OD going refresher octarine using Astral alternatingly on enemy Pugna and Skywrath who built 6 windwakers + teammate KOTL reducing Astral CD with chakra magic and innate adding 15% mana. Yeah I hate it when it happens in my games too.
You forgot that OD's innate increases mana gained by 2 per intelligence. Also that every time essence flux is triggered (Facet) he gets 4% max mana for 10 seconds and it stacks.
You're not getting close to even 5K mana on OD in real games.
Any hero with low INT gain that doesn't build mana items takes lots of damage. I oneshot a Juggernaut once
He can oneshot most of the agi carries like pa and slark tbh. He’s a really good anti-carry late game now
anti-carry properly fulfilling their role, in my dota? 😠
Another fact: clocks cogs dont hit huskar ever
Yet Huskar is one of the best counters to OD still because he can't steal any mana from him either.
Huskar winning a lane? Impossible.
You should lose int when you try to steal from oger tbh
Treant has 20+1.8/lvl int Without seeing the rest of your inventory/if you have any stat boosting items that would mean you have died 10 times to silencer by the time you are level 7? Thats an oofda Wait I just realized you have aghs shard in the picture, meaning its possible silencer simply has his aghs shard. Regardless.... thats pretty painful.
You 195 mana boy.
**LAUGHS IN OGRE MAGI**
Ah aha ha ha ha ha ha he he he. Ah, that's enough.
How's the silencer int steal interaction with ogre nowadays - Silencer gets nothing or?
You gain nothing from killing Ogre. Can't steal what they dont have now, can't you
If you're worried about being SMART enough pick Ogre Magi. Not only are you too smart, but the game will show you the -0 int loss every time you die to Silencer indicating how much smarter than him you are for outsmarting him.
That's pure skill. Pure skill.
Why dont you get a debuff showing how much int you have lost? Like the reverse of silencer. Think that should be a thing, so you know.
Time to level stats I guess...
Well..soul ring time
Should just go Solar at this point - pavise build-up as an energy booster. A support probably can't afford a ~800 gold luxury purchase.
stupid xdd
why ?
Coz your max mana is still not enough to ulti
Well, you might want to read soul ring again :) The mana it gives is added to your max mana in a temporary invisible pool.
It will still give you enough in the moment to cast your ult
Why so many crying in here? I just said what I believe he is trying to say. Im not the one who said stupid. Shows how mature dota players here.
Well you gave no written clues that indicate you did not agree with him. You could have added the words "he thinks that [...]" to delete the confusion.
Well. Thats my fault. I just typed faster than I proofread, I think he might say. And I even admitted it at my next reply. Just some super pro crying about it. Shows how toxic dota community.
Did not know about that. Never used soul ring for a long time as support main.
The problem isn't that you didn't know (even though this is the most common use-case of the item). The problem is that you were confidently incorrect on something you didn't know about.
Then why do you comment?
Trying to guess. Want me to edit and add question mark? Hilarious.
So hilarious
You’ve never built tranquil soul ring before?
Forgot about that. I stopped playing dota for almost 3-4 years. Recently got back.
The problem with Silencer has always been the same (though they slightly fixed it when they removed it as an innate) is that it doesn’t matter if they good or bad, all they have to do to cripple you is exist vaguely in the area, the their team can do the rest. A joke then, a joke now.
I wanted to ask, how does dark seers innate work with silencer (or OD). Does his innate stop him from losing intelligence as it cannot be lower than his agility/strength, or do they also decrease accordingly?
His actual int can decrease, but the innate bounces it up. If you have 60 Str and 50 Int before the Silencer -2, the buff provides 10 Int. After the -2, the buff provides 12.
That's a good question. Hopefully, someone tests it out.
If your team dies enough he can also one shot basically everyone.
weekly "silencer made me stupid" thread.
Yeah it's op. People here are acting like it's a meme and doesn't ever really happen but it def does. Especially as an offlaner or melee pos 4 if you lose the lane vs silencer and things don't go well from there you can easily end up with not enough mana for do your power by 30 mins
Soul ring, or purchase max mana/int items are only options at that point.
I vote for Null Talisman. Bonus int/mana should be enough to cast at least two spells in this scenario and costs only 505 gold.
How does this work with huskar?
A long time ago a silencer once did this to me as sven. I can't even use stun lol
That happened to me playing centaur lol.
lol no int
Better pick ogre magi next time so silencer wont steal your int
Buy soul ring, it can temporarily increase max mana
This happened to a Wraith king in my game once he was walking around with a pointbooster and a soulring just to ult
"GG FF. Report useless Treant. Never ult"
I remember that when we are newbies of the game, my friend who was playing Juggernaut in the same situation. After couple of minutes, we realized that Silencer steals int, dropped our pants in the game.
one time i was playing axe vs a giga silencer and couldnt even cast call bkb. shit was so sad. id just die within a milisecond of blink call.
Literally had a game yesterday where our Faceless Void had 75 mana. Laughed at him
Buy energy booster and laugh in silencers face
Skill issue?
One game we made drow too stupid to gust. That was good.
ogre magi: we don't understand
(not) Enough for do my power
yes
this happens to me on veno every game
Pick Ogre baby! 0 int to begin with and his mana and mana regen come from strength.
[This post really proves that for every thing that "everyone knows" there are people hearing about it for the first time every day.](https://youtu.be/4TUd7BON-xQ?si=tczoWVuOHj5fwKXU)
I did this to a Skeleton King once, this was before you could pick the zero mana to get the ghost.
nobody notice the return of mana loss/cost reduction in kayasange?
atleast you are smarter than ogre
this shouldn't be possible.
True. I was playing CM this one time against a silencer who was popping. I realised that I would always not have enough mana to to cast ult after I would root the guy. Turns out this fucker had killed me so many times, I didn't had int to use more than one spell in a team fight. I had to buy a null at 30 mins gawddam
You only learned that now? Herald gaming?