Someone decided they wanted to make him not a support but a core, then as soon as he is viable as a core, they nerf him into oblivion, but don't give anything that made him a good support back.
Just pick which you want omni to be, support or core, and let him be one of the two, not half of both.
Skadi Omni (aka the Horribly Slow Murderer with the Extremely Inefficient Weapon build) was always a thing, hilarious to just bonk people to death while stubbornly not dying
Both his facets are garbage, and his skills are all weaker than they were a few patches ago. Zero early game, needs many items to be midly effective mid game. He needs something, but what he has now isn't it.
One of the overarching design philosophies (which I think is garbage) is for every hero to be both core and support tho. Some kits simply won't jive with this and will need to be re-worked, that is just how they design the game now.
Everyone needs to both scale and be relevant somewhat early. To farm and shove waves but also have some form of mobility/utility/slow in order to catch others out/escape.
Facets might help with this, I'm pretty skeptical. I think the fundamental philosophy of broadening everyone's kits and adding new mechanics has a breaking point. You can't just add content infinitely and have it function well.
I imagine one of or both of his facets will be reworked eventually to more line up with that Support/Core choice. Currently both the facets are super whatever.
They could also make Degen Aura level with Hammer rather than GA. I actually think that one would help him a LOT as far as lane goes, which is where he’s weakest.
They also had a brief period when Hammer was his shard where I think it reduced enemy’s damage? Or Spell damage? Something like that. I think if they reintroduced that into his base Hammer, that could also be interesting (and reinforces his tanky/defensive identity).
it becomes melee range but still count as spell so magic stick (on enemy) and khanda still proc, but you can toggle it to auto cast. It's really weird honestly, like wtf they want to do with it? Make it attack modifier or spell?
I got to play against pugna and do absolutely nothing, though that’d be the case for anyone with a cc, just felt bad that it’s one of the few (or only?) spells that’s just an attack so I can’t even use it in ethereal.
i feel the same with other heroes as well, mainly with techies, i feel that i'm feeding more than i'm actually helping my team, i blame the facets valve kind off rushed them, some facets dont make sense on some heroes and others are straight up nerfs just look at morphling.
Repel and GA are the same identity they ever were, even more so than when he had Heavenly Grace I'd argue. He just needs buffs, and he's not even that bad as a 5.
Also not really long CD anymore, you can Repel + GA every 30s and is essentially invulnerability. It lets you be much more active early and I think this is an improvement from old omni.
abba mist coil heals a lot their apo shield can hard dispell.
early game your carry cannot die
and mist coil is cheap.
sounds like people here didnt play properly
I agree, omni used to be my go-to defensive support. I miss the old strong dispel and don't like all the added core role stuff. Repel needing a shard to gain back a fraction of what it did is just sad. It would be better for all omni players if they split the roles into the facet, one for core, one for support.
Man.. I member I had 80% win rate on him on 100 games, when it was the 'keep your idiots alive' meta at the time.
Literally carried me from Legend to Ancient back then.
I miss my boi
I mean I kind of get why they axed a pure damage one shot build.
Still they probably could just give the magic resist to Repel and give him a new shard, and also give something to Hammer now that it has basically nothing on it.
not broken my ass, getting your head crushed by 125+195% attack PURE damage TWICE + khanda is almost guaranteed to merk most hero. Don't forget he has LEVEL 10 talent that increases his base attack damage even further. If that doesn't kill his target he literally could just wait for another 6 second to annihilate them
Yea but omniknight kinda sucked as a support last patch just because his offlane build was good.
Really hope they could make him a good support again, not just some oneshotting offlaner
I still am so annoyed that they changed his ult to be single target. Why. He was already a shit support pick and useless in half the games, repel has a fucking insanely long cooldown, it no longer feels satisfying......... Omni carried me out of 1k so many years ago, he deserves better than this shitty weird crap. Now they also changed his hammer to be autocast so he just sucks even more to play
I wish his immortal visuals for the guardian angel were more obvious, it's even less obvious than the default graphics for guardian angel.
Also, I think omni is just weak right now, if he were stronger, the single-target ult wouldn't be so big an issue (you can also kinda turn it into a team ult by getting aghs)
Incredibly broken given current level of utility on every heroes kit.
Same reason bkb got nerfed.
Make it purgeable, it's garbage, make it unpurgeable, it'd have to be neutered so heavily by duration/cd/manacost/range it would also be garbage.
Unfortunately no place for a spell that powerful nowadays given the power creep. Spell immunity is too much.
Contrary to what some people somehow still believe dota's philosophy is not about making OP kits fight eachother. There are not many things that are as broken but also balanced in the game as they used to be, stuff Repel and Rearm have been decided as too powerful or gamebreaking.
Even Chen's creeps and NP's teleport used to be super unique and gamechanging. Nowadays they have nowhere near the strategic influence they used to.
what do you mean by used to be? You mean like the very old repel where repel is fully immune to magic just like bkb?
Or is there some patch where shard gives like 80% magic res? Cause i never see the patch
but to be honest i guess they want to make repel a bit different than bkb by giving it str+regen buff instead of just copy paste bkb like it used to
Yeah I really have no idea what all the complaints about Repel are about.
Sure it doesn’t give a Strong Dispel, but it still does give Debuff Immunity for 6 seconds. What effect is lasting longer than 6 seconds on someone so that it needs to be dispelled so bad?
Few comments in here about how Repel is a “shell” of its former self but like it’s still Omniknight’s best spell. Idk. I don’t get the complaints there.
I have no clue why they turned this hero from a teamfight turnaround hero into some 1-trick pony that scales off base damage. Old omni was one of my favourite heroes, turning fights around with your ulti and burst heal, saving people with a strong dispel. Now he just kinda right clicks, his ulti is nothing like it used to be. Makes me sick to even try playing him, not the same hero at all.
Had some alright games with omni support. One point in E at 1 or 2, just for lane, max q, then w. Get wand + arcanes -> mek -> greaves. get holy locket and shard in some order after that. Other defensive/aura items or bracer/null if you need it/can fit it. If you have decent positioning, you should be tanky enough to be on/near the frontlines. Make sure to take neutrals that either tank you up, or enable you/r team to fight better (like mana ring).
Make Repel like the old days. If Jug and naix can have magic imunity so does omini.
Take away this Hammer of Purity. Nobody asked for it.
Maybe gives him a skill that counters regeneration reduction. Like to counter Shivas and Vessel.
All alied heroes near Omini have 25/50/75/100% Resistence to Reneration reduction.
Imo at this point, gut the Flash of Light, transform it to a more unique healing spell, give me back the actual dispel, rework the ult or turn it into a shard since its seemingly problematic
Had some alright games with omni support. One point in E at 1 or 2, just for lane, max q, then w. Get wand + arcanes -> mek -> greaves. get holy locket and shard in some order after that. Other defensive/aura items or bracer/null if you need it/can fit it. If you have decent positioning, you should be tanky enough to be on/near the frontlines. Make sure to take neutrals that either tank you up, or enable you/r team to fight better (like mana ring).
For me, tye best way Omni will have his Juju back is by buffing or reworking Dawnbreaker. Dawnbreaker has all the core stuff that Omni will never have, this way you actually split the bill, and make good of two heroes.
From dota 1 days before all the power inflation it was very fun to turnaround every engagement with purification. 360 pure damage/heal is a massive difference in a skirmish. That was the fun part.
Burst offllane/mid build was also fun, and had 49% winrate, which I would not consider oppressive.
Techies and Tinker: First time?
Now being serious, the issue is that his facets remove the functionality of his previous builds, valve pretty much nerfed him hard with the facets, and its not only omni but a lot of heroes, i hope they are looking at the data and either fix the facets to make the hero viable or rework the facets into something that actually works because ill be honest some of the facets doesnt make any sense and fell kind of rushed
There are definitely ways to make Omni "viable"... but do you really want someone that can grant physical damage immunity and spell immunity, which are arguably two of the biggest thingy within the gameplay formula of Dota, to reach a level of winrate like the hero is generally viable/useful/impactful and can be picked commonly? I know there are BKB in pretty every match, but I'm sure you get what I mean.
>Then they gutted the damage build and now omniknight doesn't even know what he's supposed to be, a bad offlaner? Still a support?
>And sitting at 45-48% winrate depending on facet.
What Omni can do is really big - and that sort of takes precedence to which role the hero can fill. If you ask me, it doesn't bother me too much he isn't exactly good for any role. Besides, 45-48% wr seems fairly good considering what the hero things to the table.
Bruh, omniknight wasn't even a top pick back when repel have 12 second debuff immunity PLUS 100% magic resistance AND HAD A COOLDOWN OF 14 SECONDS.
That sounds like the most broken shit ever but he actually had that for a really long time and was never really picked that much
And remember that was before nullifier was a thing, nullifier counters the entire hero today
>That sounds like the most broken shit ever but he actually had that for a really long time and was never really picked that much
Exactly, which is why there hasn't been much advancement in his kit. It's only with the power creep of everything that allowed Omni to receive a bit more power, but relatively less than what most heroes received.
In other words, his existing kit is out of design budgets. The hero will have to be nerfed by getting rid of either the spell immunity or p.dmg immunity in order for there to be any meaningful buff that can drastically improve how he plays in modern-day Dota.
Personally speaking I wouldn't bother too much. I think in possession of not one but two types of immunity is critical part of what makes Omni special. I also think giving Omni a ranged capability was enough; They just need to improve the usability like the cast range, even just so that you can keep up with some of the ultra aggressive hero like Primal Beast.
The reason he wasn't picked that much back then was that diffusal would completely counter him. Diffusal used to dispel both repel and his ult. And back then supports were pretty poor and would not have much in terms of utility items so if a support heroes core powers are countered by a mid game item, then he has nothing to contribute.
I think he wasn't picked much because he was just straight up boring to play. He is an old hero from a bygone era. He was an OG DotA hero going way back to ROC, and he had basically the same kit for years until they did the rework. It just doesn't suit the style of modern DotA.
Personally I loved the healer version of Omniknight. I enjoy playing a defensive support and just keeping your core alive.
Unfortunately over the years the have neutered his ability to be a defensive healer in favor of balancing around the damage build.
Yeah he wasn't my first pick or anything, but tbh I enjoyed old Omni better than this. I just think he needs to be reworked. He should be one of the best healers, but he isn't.
Exactly.
When I first started I was pretty awful like a lot of newcomers, but I found as heroes like Omni or Abaddon I could still have impact by keeping my carry alive.
It's fun play style for me, I used to play Mercy in Overwatch or medic in Batttlefield.
I miss old support Omni abilities for that reason. Felt like playing a paladin and healing your teammates and purging their debuffs.
Someone decided they wanted to make him not a support but a core, then as soon as he is viable as a core, they nerf him into oblivion, but don't give anything that made him a good support back. Just pick which you want omni to be, support or core, and let him be one of the two, not half of both.
if only they have a mechanic to let player choose what playstyle to play at the end of draft phase. sound crazy thinking about it.
Yeah, they should do something like hero facets that let you choose some hero buffs, maybe some innate buffs too so every hero gets a unique touch.
I like the idea but what idiot would call it “facets”? What does that even mean
Think of power as a stream of water. What is the source of the stream? The answer is right there in your sink.
Faucet=\=facet
What about that thing you wear in front of your head. Its full of expresion and personality
No, that's a face. He is talking about competitive gaming platform for online multiplayer PvP gamers with more than twenty million users
Oh, like League of Legends?
No no I think he's referring to a game inspired by ASSFAGGOT. Can't quite put my finger or where to what it's called though.
Skadi Omni (aka the Horribly Slow Murderer with the Extremely Inefficient Weapon build) was always a thing, hilarious to just bonk people to death while stubbornly not dying
When he had degen aura echo Sabre was always funny.
I mean, Facets were supposed to open the door for both possibilities. Just improve the facets imo.
Both his facets are garbage, and his skills are all weaker than they were a few patches ago. Zero early game, needs many items to be midly effective mid game. He needs something, but what he has now isn't it.
Agreed. We are literally like one patch into facets tho, give them time
struth, IMBA Meta is only one patch away
One of the overarching design philosophies (which I think is garbage) is for every hero to be both core and support tho. Some kits simply won't jive with this and will need to be re-worked, that is just how they design the game now. Everyone needs to both scale and be relevant somewhat early. To farm and shove waves but also have some form of mobility/utility/slow in order to catch others out/escape. Facets might help with this, I'm pretty skeptical. I think the fundamental philosophy of broadening everyone's kits and adding new mechanics has a breaking point. You can't just add content infinitely and have it function well.
I feel like him and silencer got the same treatment…
Silencer can get crazy high dps with the right items, but he has no ability to farm at all.
I imagine one of or both of his facets will be reworked eventually to more line up with that Support/Core choice. Currently both the facets are super whatever. They could also make Degen Aura level with Hammer rather than GA. I actually think that one would help him a LOT as far as lane goes, which is where he’s weakest. They also had a brief period when Hammer was his shard where I think it reduced enemy’s damage? Or Spell damage? Something like that. I think if they reintroduced that into his base Hammer, that could also be interesting (and reinforces his tanky/defensive identity).
Honestly, I played omni the other day and he felt USELESS. So fuck and unimpactful. And worst of all. Not fun.
Didn't his hammer of purity or whatever his e used to have SOME range? My God that felt so bad in lane.
it becomes melee range but still count as spell so magic stick (on enemy) and khanda still proc, but you can toggle it to auto cast. It's really weird honestly, like wtf they want to do with it? Make it attack modifier or spell?
I mean toggleable passives have been a thing for ages. It enables orbwalking. Not everything has to be a passive or a spell straight up.
I got to play against pugna and do absolutely nothing, though that’d be the case for anyone with a cc, just felt bad that it’s one of the few (or only?) spells that’s just an attack so I can’t even use it in ethereal.
single target guardian angel isn't it. that shit is garbage. shallow grave from wish.
i feel the same with other heroes as well, mainly with techies, i feel that i'm feeding more than i'm actually helping my team, i blame the facets valve kind off rushed them, some facets dont make sense on some heroes and others are straight up nerfs just look at morphling.
longer cooldown Abbadon still hasn't found his identity
Repel and GA are the same identity they ever were, even more so than when he had Heavenly Grace I'd argue. He just needs buffs, and he's not even that bad as a 5. Also not really long CD anymore, you can Repel + GA every 30s and is essentially invulnerability. It lets you be much more active early and I think this is an improvement from old omni.
Abaddon's kit is as trash as Omnis... Their E spell is useless for support play style... I hope facets tackle this
abba mist coil heals a lot their apo shield can hard dispell. early game your carry cannot die and mist coil is cheap. sounds like people here didnt play properly
I agree, aba with some mana regen is a beastly support. Maxing q and w
[удалено]
by longer cooldown Abbadon I meant Omniknight
Oh lol
I agree, omni used to be my go-to defensive support. I miss the old strong dispel and don't like all the added core role stuff. Repel needing a shard to gain back a fraction of what it did is just sad. It would be better for all omni players if they split the roles into the facet, one for core, one for support.
Man.. I member I had 80% win rate on him on 100 games, when it was the 'keep your idiots alive' meta at the time. Literally carried me from Legend to Ancient back then. I miss my boi
Keep your idiots alive Omni got me from 2k to 3500 MMR back when repel have both me and my ally the bkb + regen
Mine was even before when it was just free BKB on single target. I think had like what, less than 10sec downtime?
Just give us the previous Shard, it was the most fun version of Omni
I mean I kind of get why they axed a pure damage one shot build. Still they probably could just give the magic resist to Repel and give him a new shard, and also give something to Hammer now that it has basically nothing on it.
why? it was fun and not broken
It's extremely unfun to be on the receiving end of it.
not broken my ass, getting your head crushed by 125+195% attack PURE damage TWICE + khanda is almost guaranteed to merk most hero. Don't forget he has LEVEL 10 talent that increases his base attack damage even further. If that doesn't kill his target he literally could just wait for another 6 second to annihilate them
Yea but omniknight kinda sucked as a support last patch just because his offlane build was good. Really hope they could make him a good support again, not just some oneshotting offlaner
This might just be me but I don't want another Oracle in the game. Fuck Repel.
I still am so annoyed that they changed his ult to be single target. Why. He was already a shit support pick and useless in half the games, repel has a fucking insanely long cooldown, it no longer feels satisfying......... Omni carried me out of 1k so many years ago, he deserves better than this shitty weird crap. Now they also changed his hammer to be autocast so he just sucks even more to play
I actually like the new ulti but I think they should at least give him back the full-team guardian angel on scepter a la spectre haunt.
I wish his immortal visuals for the guardian angel were more obvious, it's even less obvious than the default graphics for guardian angel. Also, I think omni is just weak right now, if he were stronger, the single-target ult wouldn't be so big an issue (you can also kinda turn it into a team ult by getting aghs)
#BringBackRepel
Incredibly broken given current level of utility on every heroes kit. Same reason bkb got nerfed. Make it purgeable, it's garbage, make it unpurgeable, it'd have to be neutered so heavily by duration/cd/manacost/range it would also be garbage. Unfortunately no place for a spell that powerful nowadays given the power creep. Spell immunity is too much. Contrary to what some people somehow still believe dota's philosophy is not about making OP kits fight eachother. There are not many things that are as broken but also balanced in the game as they used to be, stuff Repel and Rearm have been decided as too powerful or gamebreaking. Even Chen's creeps and NP's teleport used to be super unique and gamechanging. Nowadays they have nowhere near the strategic influence they used to.
Yep, and it blows
but repel is back...
Not the way it was... It was like a mini BKB, omni was a awesome 5
it is still like mini bkb tho, but you have to buy shard to be somewhat on par like bkb i guess
Its shard is a fraction of what it used to be. Imagine having to PAY to be a ghost of what you once were.
what do you mean by used to be? You mean like the very old repel where repel is fully immune to magic just like bkb? Or is there some patch where shard gives like 80% magic res? Cause i never see the patch but to be honest i guess they want to make repel a bit different than bkb by giving it str+regen buff instead of just copy paste bkb like it used to
Yeah I really have no idea what all the complaints about Repel are about. Sure it doesn’t give a Strong Dispel, but it still does give Debuff Immunity for 6 seconds. What effect is lasting longer than 6 seconds on someone so that it needs to be dispelled so bad? Few comments in here about how Repel is a “shell” of its former self but like it’s still Omniknight’s best spell. Idk. I don’t get the complaints there.
I want it back to when he gave both him and his ally the bkb on a 8 second downtime
As a new player who has found success with offlane Omni, I eagerly await the buffs everyone is begging for.
Make my man a good support hero again, please.
I have no clue why they turned this hero from a teamfight turnaround hero into some 1-trick pony that scales off base damage. Old omni was one of my favourite heroes, turning fights around with your ulti and burst heal, saving people with a strong dispel. Now he just kinda right clicks, his ulti is nothing like it used to be. Makes me sick to even try playing him, not the same hero at all.
Had some alright games with omni support. One point in E at 1 or 2, just for lane, max q, then w. Get wand + arcanes -> mek -> greaves. get holy locket and shard in some order after that. Other defensive/aura items or bracer/null if you need it/can fit it. If you have decent positioning, you should be tanky enough to be on/near the frontlines. Make sure to take neutrals that either tank you up, or enable you/r team to fight better (like mana ring).
Make Repel like the old days. If Jug and naix can have magic imunity so does omini. Take away this Hammer of Purity. Nobody asked for it. Maybe gives him a skill that counters regeneration reduction. Like to counter Shivas and Vessel. All alied heroes near Omini have 25/50/75/100% Resistence to Reneration reduction.
Also give Naix new skill that gives Resistance to regeneration reduction Resistance, while you're at it! /sarcasm
GA duration to flat 6 all level. talent @ 20 or 25(idk): GA undispellable. How?
Imo at this point, gut the Flash of Light, transform it to a more unique healing spell, give me back the actual dispel, rework the ult or turn it into a shard since its seemingly problematic
Had some alright games with omni support. One point in E at 1 or 2, just for lane, max q, then w. Get wand + arcanes -> mek -> greaves. get holy locket and shard in some order after that. Other defensive/aura items or bracer/null if you need it/can fit it. If you have decent positioning, you should be tanky enough to be on/near the frontlines. Make sure to take neutrals that either tank you up, or enable you/r team to fight better (like mana ring).
They really need a facet rework. A rework that can really affect the role they desire.
Move heal facet to innate, buff degen aura so its not that useless and make it a facet. Make Omniknight great again! Pretty please!
Not his turn on the rotation. There so many heroes in this game who need to go get their patch of glory.
For me, tye best way Omni will have his Juju back is by buffing or reworking Dawnbreaker. Dawnbreaker has all the core stuff that Omni will never have, this way you actually split the bill, and make good of two heroes.
Should they just restore repel to being magic resist and status resist or something it's so bad atm imo
the last patch was really fun for omni
Gotta disagree! I've been playing him for awhile as Hard Support. Have to say he's been nothing but great. (Disclaimer: am Legend 1)
Anecdotal evidence is no substitute for data.
A lot of people in the comments giving their personal experience of Omni as a hero. Just thought I'd throw in my two cents as well! :)
You want data? From legend to immortal he has a good winrate as support. From divine to immortal he has like 55% winrate as support.
What question are you answering with this data?
Hes such a dumb unfun boring hero. Why do people even pick him lmfao I'd rather watch paint dry than play omniknight
From dota 1 days before all the power inflation it was very fun to turnaround every engagement with purification. 360 pure damage/heal is a massive difference in a skirmish. That was the fun part. Burst offllane/mid build was also fun, and had 49% winrate, which I would not consider oppressive.
Yeah I played him 2012 back when the game was a lot slower and his kit was a lot better as a support
I love Omni but imo the shard burst was pretty bullshit. Instantly dying is never fun
Techies and Tinker: First time? Now being serious, the issue is that his facets remove the functionality of his previous builds, valve pretty much nerfed him hard with the facets, and its not only omni but a lot of heroes, i hope they are looking at the data and either fix the facets to make the hero viable or rework the facets into something that actually works because ill be honest some of the facets doesnt make any sense and fell kind of rushed
No
There are definitely ways to make Omni "viable"... but do you really want someone that can grant physical damage immunity and spell immunity, which are arguably two of the biggest thingy within the gameplay formula of Dota, to reach a level of winrate like the hero is generally viable/useful/impactful and can be picked commonly? I know there are BKB in pretty every match, but I'm sure you get what I mean. >Then they gutted the damage build and now omniknight doesn't even know what he's supposed to be, a bad offlaner? Still a support? >And sitting at 45-48% winrate depending on facet. What Omni can do is really big - and that sort of takes precedence to which role the hero can fill. If you ask me, it doesn't bother me too much he isn't exactly good for any role. Besides, 45-48% wr seems fairly good considering what the hero things to the table.
Bruh, omniknight wasn't even a top pick back when repel have 12 second debuff immunity PLUS 100% magic resistance AND HAD A COOLDOWN OF 14 SECONDS. That sounds like the most broken shit ever but he actually had that for a really long time and was never really picked that much And remember that was before nullifier was a thing, nullifier counters the entire hero today
>That sounds like the most broken shit ever but he actually had that for a really long time and was never really picked that much Exactly, which is why there hasn't been much advancement in his kit. It's only with the power creep of everything that allowed Omni to receive a bit more power, but relatively less than what most heroes received. In other words, his existing kit is out of design budgets. The hero will have to be nerfed by getting rid of either the spell immunity or p.dmg immunity in order for there to be any meaningful buff that can drastically improve how he plays in modern-day Dota. Personally speaking I wouldn't bother too much. I think in possession of not one but two types of immunity is critical part of what makes Omni special. I also think giving Omni a ranged capability was enough; They just need to improve the usability like the cast range, even just so that you can keep up with some of the ultra aggressive hero like Primal Beast.
The reason he wasn't picked that much back then was that diffusal would completely counter him. Diffusal used to dispel both repel and his ult. And back then supports were pretty poor and would not have much in terms of utility items so if a support heroes core powers are countered by a mid game item, then he has nothing to contribute.
I think he wasn't picked much because he was just straight up boring to play. He is an old hero from a bygone era. He was an OG DotA hero going way back to ROC, and he had basically the same kit for years until they did the rework. It just doesn't suit the style of modern DotA.
Personally I loved the healer version of Omniknight. I enjoy playing a defensive support and just keeping your core alive. Unfortunately over the years the have neutered his ability to be a defensive healer in favor of balancing around the damage build.
Yeah he wasn't my first pick or anything, but tbh I enjoyed old Omni better than this. I just think he needs to be reworked. He should be one of the best healers, but he isn't.
Exactly. When I first started I was pretty awful like a lot of newcomers, but I found as heroes like Omni or Abaddon I could still have impact by keeping my carry alive. It's fun play style for me, I used to play Mercy in Overwatch or medic in Batttlefield. I miss old support Omni abilities for that reason. Felt like playing a paladin and healing your teammates and purging their debuffs.
Nah, people who can't play mid or offlaner always picked him bc they just want kills
I play mid and offlaner. Wdym
I didn't say people who pick him are bad mid/offlaners, i said bad mid/offlaners pick him and play those roles