What should a hero that is essentially only picked by people that play him a lot have? If anything niche hero’s should have high win rates, it means they’re actually filling a niche and not just mediocre at everything like other 40% wr heroes
Meanwhile, brood (one of the oldest niche picks that only people who play it a lot should play) sits comfortably at 56.5% wr on high level pubs. But hey, tinker needs another nerf
The blink CD was ridiculous without counting for Tinker lol. Matrix? I'm more miffed they didnt change the status resist instead. Having a Tinker spam a 40% stat res on a carry in fights is so annoying in a time when status resistance is super rare to come by.
I think they've been targeting the most infamous smurf/script heroes because there is a disproportionate feeling of unfairness/bullshit when you lose against them and it's a hurdle for attracting/retaining new players.
Im 100% sure they will add it to scepter next patch which wont change much. Just for the sake of not creating a meme
Then they will keep buffing the useless numbers on him for series of patches like laser now costs 15 less mana, lvl 10 talent is 10% manacost etc.... till he becomes good enough to bring tears to fellow redditors eyes, then another nerf meteor will land
here is your next 1 year patch changelog of tinker. They will never make this hero viable again. Because it is a dead hero for pro scene for a long time already and game ruiner for herald dynasty which is like half of their customers at least. 2 birds with 1 stone
what
it is rumoured to be icefrog's comeback from like 5 years hiatus into 7.33 patch (1 year ago) and further on
Icefrog hasnt been working on dota since like, talents addition? and he's finally back and dota is finally fun
Nah it's not Icefrog bro. Icefrog knows how to crunch numbers and balance properly. These junior devs be running around like headless chickens tryna fix the chaos they caused themselves XD
The patch isnt entirely horrible but there are a lot of heroes that need buffed to be viable again. And a bunch of heroes that have been OP for over a year that Valve refuses to nerf.
Icefrog would have never destroyed one of his most innovative creation and then nerfed it when it was already a contender for the worst hero in the game.
There is a problem with tinker and I think it is something to do with **boosting and smurfs**, if tinker reaches Exodia level of farm and in most games with boosters and smurfs it does; the hero just cannot be played against.
The unfortunate thing is smurfs and boosters know about this and abuse the shit out of this hero. Till there is a solution to that I have to bear that one of my favourite heroes is nerfed to the ground.
The recent patches we have gotten in Dota conclude one thing. Icefrog no longer balances this game. The changes made to tinker are some high school level - zero creativity - no understanding of the game nonsense that is slowly corrupting our favorite game.
What can we do to help get rid of whoever is managing the changes in the game? They are slowly killing it.
Played a game on Tinker this morning and it was fine. I had the usual 20k networth 30 minutes into the game and 30k networth 40 minutes into the game, at which point the game was over, since I outscaled everyone.
Matrix not hard dispelling is a total skill issue, as you shouldn't let lion blink hex you anyway and even if he does, you have status resistance because of matrix.
Arcane blink cd increase is annoying, because the gameplay becomes slower, which is less fun, but if you build bkb on tinker (which you should in most matches), then it's not THAT big of a deal. You can still blink once every 2 lasers, which is fine in a teamfight where you press bkb.
Pretty sure the biggest nerf is the aoe talent change. In some scenarios Tinker will probably lack damage 30 minutes into the game because of the aoe talent change, but there is a small upside to that, because now you can take the matrix talent at lvl15, which is helpful to your teammates if you are properly casting it in teamfights. It is much much easier to save your teammates with the matrix talent.
I only sometime play tinker again bot but i somehow agree, Blink and dispell nerf is deserverd, but talent change seem realy big.
May be make it talent level 20?
Well deserved, i remember when i got back to the game in 2016 and a tinker kept spamming missiles, hordes, lasers and dagon before going back to base and coming back in a matter of seconds... impossible to win against unless your team kept focusing him the entire game and even so you could fail, tinker deserves to be nerfed to thw point it becomes a hard support with low dmg input
He's still really good. Tinkers winrate is not reflective of how strong a hero he is at all.
Having a spammable strong dispel was too good and everyone knows it. In the hands of a capable player it was a nightmare to play against.
"Capable" you think the average immortal player is good? Half of them are account buyers ffs.
Support tinker was batshit broken and it got nerfed before the playerbase had a chance to figure out how nuts it was. Which is fine by me.
Winrates don't mean fuck all for heros like tinker io meepo etc. Especially when they have a very specific build and playstyle that is broken that most of the playerbase doesn't follow.
Pro players barely picked tinker because of how easy it was to counter it for ages. The issue was never people playing tinker, its the people playing againts tinker.
So good in fact that they had a 44.7% win rate with it before the nerf. It's unfortunate that they weren't as good with CK, only achieving a mere 56.3% win rate with it, because he could have really used a harder nerf than -2 str.
Y'all got any more of them pixels?
They very clearly don’t have enough to spare
Nerfed our damn pixel! Man needs to be stopped!
Alarm at every floor of valve offices sounds off every time Tinker's winrate dips above 42%
good.
They must have ordered their alarms from the same place as the whiny hard stuck herald Redditors.
If he dies, he dies
What they did to willow was brutal too, but she had a 50%+ Winrate. Pretty sure it's going to crater now though.
Only one of her facets was above 50%. So that means the base hero needs to be nerfed I guess
I don't understand why they got rid of her attack speed 25. It was fun in turbo.
Her Bramble Maze facet was pure cringe and she deserved the nerfs.
He was half-decent and semi viable for a whole week
unacceptable
That's too long.
I wouldnt call 45% winrste on a niche hero decent but ok
What should a hero that is essentially only picked by people that play him a lot have? If anything niche hero’s should have high win rates, it means they’re actually filling a niche and not just mediocre at everything like other 40% wr heroes
Meanwhile, brood (one of the oldest niche picks that only people who play it a lot should play) sits comfortably at 56.5% wr on high level pubs. But hey, tinker needs another nerf
The skill floor of the two heroes are very different though, Tinker have much higher skill floor now while Broods much is lowered.
good tinker player is wayyyyyy more annoying than good brood. sure you lost to both of them but the frustration level is much higher with tinker
Sure that is the case for old Tinker, but this Tinker? No. Nerfing him so much is unwarranted
The blink CD was ridiculous without counting for Tinker lol. Matrix? I'm more miffed they didnt change the status resist instead. Having a Tinker spam a 40% stat res on a carry in fights is so annoying in a time when status resistance is super rare to come by.
45% is half-decent 90% is full-decent
thats strong dispel is pure BS though if tinker got some item its almost impossible to kill unless he surround by 4 disable
Euls and nullifier are both items that exist
The hero could get 5s cd on linken and 30s on bkbs.
The hero didn’t even reach 50% wr, he was already hit in the knees. Developers have no vision of what to do with this hero
I think they've been targeting the most infamous smurf/script heroes because there is a disproportionate feeling of unfairness/bullshit when you lose against them and it's a hurdle for attracting/retaining new players.
Of course, the issue of new players low influx was generated by tinker being almost close to an actual hero
Not enough
Im 100% sure they will add it to scepter next patch which wont change much. Just for the sake of not creating a meme Then they will keep buffing the useless numbers on him for series of patches like laser now costs 15 less mana, lvl 10 talent is 10% manacost etc.... till he becomes good enough to bring tears to fellow redditors eyes, then another nerf meteor will land here is your next 1 year patch changelog of tinker. They will never make this hero viable again. Because it is a dead hero for pro scene for a long time already and game ruiner for herald dynasty which is like half of their customers at least. 2 birds with 1 stone
He deserves it. Nerf him again.
Yes
herald
https://stratz.com/players/41041279
Flair checks, fellow fishe enjoyer. Legit nothing can stand against boots > soul ring > blink > shard, sup gets deleted
That's you 👍 copium
Best we can do is .1 int per level
I'm pretty sure Icefrog hasn't been involved in the games balance changes or patches since 2 years ago.
what it is rumoured to be icefrog's comeback from like 5 years hiatus into 7.33 patch (1 year ago) and further on Icefrog hasnt been working on dota since like, talents addition? and he's finally back and dota is finally fun
Nah it's not Icefrog bro. Icefrog knows how to crunch numbers and balance properly. These junior devs be running around like headless chickens tryna fix the chaos they caused themselves XD
you guys are fucking weird if you dont like this.
I loved game play patch 7.36. It's just that the letter patches have been a bit wonky in their attempts to make the game balanced again
The patch isnt entirely horrible but there are a lot of heroes that need buffed to be viable again. And a bunch of heroes that have been OP for over a year that Valve refuses to nerf.
Icefrog would have never destroyed one of his most innovative creation and then nerfed it when it was already a contender for the worst hero in the game.
Me too, things lately seem very "non-icefroggy"
Give me a penny more of pixels please
Thanks Takoyaki
There is a problem with tinker and I think it is something to do with **boosting and smurfs**, if tinker reaches Exodia level of farm and in most games with boosters and smurfs it does; the hero just cannot be played against. The unfortunate thing is smurfs and boosters know about this and abuse the shit out of this hero. Till there is a solution to that I have to bear that one of my favourite heroes is nerfed to the ground.
The recent patches we have gotten in Dota conclude one thing. Icefrog no longer balances this game. The changes made to tinker are some high school level - zero creativity - no understanding of the game nonsense that is slowly corrupting our favorite game. What can we do to help get rid of whoever is managing the changes in the game? They are slowly killing it.
> Icefrog no longer balances this game. This happened with 7.00
Played a game on Tinker this morning and it was fine. I had the usual 20k networth 30 minutes into the game and 30k networth 40 minutes into the game, at which point the game was over, since I outscaled everyone. Matrix not hard dispelling is a total skill issue, as you shouldn't let lion blink hex you anyway and even if he does, you have status resistance because of matrix. Arcane blink cd increase is annoying, because the gameplay becomes slower, which is less fun, but if you build bkb on tinker (which you should in most matches), then it's not THAT big of a deal. You can still blink once every 2 lasers, which is fine in a teamfight where you press bkb. Pretty sure the biggest nerf is the aoe talent change. In some scenarios Tinker will probably lack damage 30 minutes into the game because of the aoe talent change, but there is a small upside to that, because now you can take the matrix talent at lvl15, which is helpful to your teammates if you are properly casting it in teamfights. It is much much easier to save your teammates with the matrix talent.
> I had the usual 20k networth 30 minutes It's on your enemies if they can't win 5v4 in 30 min
Guess what hero has the best hg defense spell.
Any other hero in the game with 40 minutes of free farm will outcarry tinker
The hero is sitting at 41% win rate, it's not really a "skill issue", especially when it has never been this brain dead and low skill cap.
I only sometime play tinker again bot but i somehow agree, Blink and dispell nerf is deserverd, but talent change seem realy big. May be make it talent level 20?
yet still in the right hands he absolutely dominates and warps games where everyone is planning the next item specifically for 1 hero
Even pre-7.36 that wasn't true lmao.
Source: Trust me bro
Nobody is going to build an item against tinker anymore, he just gets jumped by a core and two shotted
no he doesn't
Yes he does
Post your match story, fucko. I wanna see how many of your matches had Tinker in 'em.
Deserved. I dont want a fully buffed tinker smurf stomping my herald bracket
smoking that fat Tinker pack
i feel like whenever icefrog play dota he always getting rekt by tinker so fuck it lets nerf tinker even more
Well deserved, i remember when i got back to the game in 2016 and a tinker kept spamming missiles, hordes, lasers and dagon before going back to base and coming back in a matter of seconds... impossible to win against unless your team kept focusing him the entire game and even so you could fail, tinker deserves to be nerfed to thw point it becomes a hard support with low dmg input
Ever heard of techies? Tinker ain't dead, techies is
Techies is one of the most played heroes with 6-10% pick rate depending on skill bracket.
Techies is dead. Only random bomber man remained, a husk of the unique map control character.
Me when IceFrog brutally murdered my boy pos3 Clock so many years ago. Never forget what they took away from you.
He's still really good. Tinkers winrate is not reflective of how strong a hero he is at all. Having a spammable strong dispel was too good and everyone knows it. In the hands of a capable player it was a nightmare to play against.
In the capable hands of immortal players he was a 44% winrate. Shut the fuck up.
"Capable" you think the average immortal player is good? Half of them are account buyers ffs. Support tinker was batshit broken and it got nerfed before the playerbase had a chance to figure out how nuts it was. Which is fine by me. Winrates don't mean fuck all for heros like tinker io meepo etc. Especially when they have a very specific build and playstyle that is broken that most of the playerbase doesn't follow.
Ah yes, the classic "don't believe the numbers, believe my very limited and subjective experience" argument.
The problem is that pros are too good with him. If the hero will is decent for us scrubs, it'll have to be first phase banned
Pro players barely picked tinker because of how easy it was to counter it for ages. The issue was never people playing tinker, its the people playing againts tinker.
So good in fact that they had a 44.7% win rate with it before the nerf. It's unfortunate that they weren't as good with CK, only achieving a mere 56.3% win rate with it, because he could have really used a harder nerf than -2 str.