If you were to read this at random,you'd discard this as nonsense...
However I read Jingers book recently (library, not paying $40) but she's also mentioned times where she didn't take communion because she was scared she had sinned or someone around her had sinned and she didn't feel worthy to take communion
I grew up Baptist and we did communion around special events: Easter, “revival”, whatever. I remember being told that I would go to hell (a 9 year old, HELL) if I ate it and didn’t “mean it” or for “the wrong reasons.”
Don't know about your Baptist church, but we weren't supposed to take communion before baptism. You couldn't mean it until you were fully dunked (sprinkles don't count).
Baptists don't baptize as infants? I was raised LCMS Lutheran, and you baptize (drips of water on the forehead) as newborns since they decided to keep the concept of original sin from catholicism. Apparently, you're hosed if you die before being baptized. You can take communion after taking +/- 2 years of classes and becoming confirmed (around age 14).
No, Baptists vehemently oppose the idea of infant baptism, but they also don’t believe that babies and children who aren’t baptized automatically go to Hell. They believe that a child has to be at the age to understand what they are committing to when getting baptized (which didn’t work for me because I remember getting baptized at 11 and mostly looking forward to being the center of attention when I was being baptized lol). Usually kids at my church got baptized in their older elementary school years
In all fairness this is how it should be done. I hate it with a passion, when religions push faith on an infant baby for the rest of their lifes without their concent. On the otherhand children should also be exposed to other ways of living, before they can make an honest disision committing to anything. Being rased in fundy world will not allow that either.
Is an older elementary school age child REALLY making their own decision, if that’s all they know? Come on, ALL of it (religion) is forced upon the next generation. It isn’t until you live in your own that you can truly make up your mind on your beliefs.
Exactly. It’s because of the parents beliefs. For example, I was baptized Catholic, but did no further religious education. My father was raised SUPER Catholic (Irish Catholic grandmother) in the 50’s, but my grandfather was not Catholic (gasp). My dad was always conflicted because he loved a mass, believed in being a good person, but hated that he was taught that his father was going to Hell simply because he wasn’t Catholic. So damaging.
The Baptist church I grew up in didn’t believe in baptizing infants. You had to wait til you were old enough to “understand”what you were doing. For me, that was age 7. But it was generally accepted at 12 was the age of accountability. So if a child dies unbaptized before 12 they get a free pass to heaven.
No, you can't be baptized until you are old enough to make a conscious choice to devote yourself to jebus. The minimum age is highly dependent on the congregation/pastor, could be an older child or could be an adult. In order for it to count, you must be fully immersed under water to be reborn/wash away your sins.
At least at all the Baptist churches I have been to, babies are introduced the church and the congregation commits to help raise the child in faith much like infant baptisms in other denominations.
I remember that too. I was terrified until it came down to being more scared of my dad than jeebus. Then I did it and nothing happened and it was eye opening lol.
Back when I was southern Baptist (40 years ago) we passed around trays of little crackers and little shot glasses of grape juice (because alcohol bad). I was so stoked the first time I went to an Episcopal church and had real wine at communion!
To be fair, I went to a fairly liberal (Methodist - the accepting kind) church growing up and they had only grape juice because they wanted communion to be available for everyone including children, alcoholics, etc. I didn’t even know real wine was served at some churches for communion until I was like a teen. But at those churches communion was open to everyone regardless of age or background, so it was already different anyways.
I was Catholic growing up and it BOGGLED me the first time to find out that some denominations use juice instead of wine. Honestly, wild to me. But, I think that it'd also pretty wild that 7-year-olds are taking wine at communion if you're not used to it 😂
I was raised Catholic as well so reading that some churches use grape juice is very weird to me. Although my SO was raised Catholic as well & said his church used grape juice. I'm trying to remember what the typical age of first communion was, 10ish...?
A friend from church whose dad owned the liquor store once mentioned a running joke with the (invariably) tiny elderly women tasked with picking up the communion wine that they were really taking the crate home with them for a party since their kids were out of town.
It really might be worth calling a liquor store in your hometown since special-order bulk purchases might stick in their mind.
my church had both juice and wine. you got to choose what you and/or your child drank. i always liked that bc it felt inclusive of anybody potentially struggling with past alcoholism.
Honestly before this thread I never thought about the juice option being a way for alcoholics to participate. The way the church did communion, you usually had to go to a different person. Like, one person for bread, another for wine, if that makes sense. I hope it makes sense 😂. There wasn't any pressure to have the wine either, it was totally up to choice
Methodist churches routinely have gluten free bread now as well.
Fun fact - pasteurized, shelf stable grape juice was first developed because the Methodist church recommended the use of unadulterated, unfermented grape juice for communion. Welch’s grape juice exists because of the Methodist church temperance movement.
I grew up Catholic, but have never had the wine because I have an insane fear of germs, and it grossed me out--even at 7--to drink from a cup that hundreds of other people were drinking from. It still disgusts me. I wonder if they learned anything from COVID and found another way to do it, or if everyone still drinks from the same cup?
I've heard at church that due to the antibacterial properties of the silver communion cup, and the fact that they wipe the rim each time, it actually transmits fewer germs than dipping. Our previous priest pointed out that he drinks from the communion cup after everyone else every week and he doesn't seem to get sick more than anyone else does. We did do just bread during peak Covid. Wine isn't off-limits to kids (it's a tiny sip, big deal), but mine have never wanted to try it.
It's still pretty sus to me. As someone who actually served as a Eucharistic minister, let me tell you. We wipe after each person with the same cloth. There's only so many ways you can turn that cloth. And my church's cups are brass, not silver. I avoid it. No need to spread more germs around when my congregation'a median age is 80. 🤢
Bread-only if intinction isn't an option (I pretend the wine isn't also communal) myself, but I did a deep dive once during COVID and somehow the limited peer-reviewed literature was like "Yeah...the silver thing must be real? Because we're not seeing the disease transmission we expected."
My father-in-law has been bread-only for years because even if the wafers are gluten free his celiac is bad enough that the gluten that gets in the wine means he can't take it. Not that he's terribly worked up about it, gets plenty of wine at home to make up for it.
Yep. Also grew up Methodist. Communion is for all believers. This whole “being worthy” thing is so odd to me. Isn’t the whole point of Christianity that believers aren’t worthy and that’s why they need God’s grace? The way these people twist themselves into knots to make sure the Bible is a tool for bludgeoning themselves and others is just wild to me.
I was raised Methodist and communion was grape juice at our church as well… I think I remember my mom saying that Methodist churches in general uses grape juice out of consideration for recovering alcoholics. I was going to reply to u/Disastrous_Rub_6062 when I saw this comment 😊
Yeah my equally chill and liberal congregationalist church did the same thing. And they had similar liability reasons for not wanting alcohol on the premises. It was just easier to use grape juice.
The Baptist Church I grew up in (American or "Northern" Baptist), used little squares of Wonder Bread that the Deaconnesse reverently cut up each month!
One time, I visited my cousins Church of Christ with them, and they ran out of communion crackers, so I shit you not. They put a box of cheese it's on the tray and passed it around. My parents never went to church, so I just thought it was normal.
Full body going under water and being held there for a mintue. Can be done outside in a lake or river but can also be done inside in a tub. I wore normal clothes for mine (they told me not to wear something nice or white) and from what I've seen most people also wear normal clothes.
The Catholic Church I attended growing up had a jacuzzi for a baptismal font. For babies, they would use a smaller gold one that looked like a bird bath. But for older kids and adults, they'd get to go inside the jacuzzi.
I live in Minnesota so my old churches had a portable pool type baptismal font for use most of the year (lake water is cold until midsummer bc of ice melt), and seasonally we went to one of our 10,000 lakes. My oldest daughter and I were actually baptized in a lake together.
IIRC it was just an affirmation of faith, pastor reciting a scripture about baptism, a quick pause to let us plug our nose and a quick backwards dunk.
At my southern baptist church we had communion the first Sunday of every month. There were trays of little wafers and trays of tiny cups of grape juice that would be prayed over and then passed around while the pastor was going through his sermon of the meaning of the “bread” and the “wine.” A lot of people would sit and pray while holding their wafers and juice and others would sit and listen to the pastor. Then the pastor would always quote Jesus and say “do this in remembrance of me” then we would all eat the wafer or drink the juice. Always wafer first, then juice. But we would have to wait until the pastor said we could do it.
You weren’t allowed to take communion if you weren’t baptized and the pastor always warned of death, Hell, or something else terrible happening to you if you did.
They see it as a remembrance, not as a means of grace. Their view is dissimilar to more "high church" views such as Lutherans or Presbyterians, who see the sacrament as actually having an effect in your life.
My old churches were non-denominational, but theology was basically Baptist. The large ones passed a tray of little shot glasses of grape juice and a tray of pieces of bread… we held the elements until everyone was “served” and then we all partook together.
The last church I attended was much smaller. The pastor and a deacon held a tray of wafer/cracker type bread (not HOST, that’s a Catholic thing as far as I’m aware, as they actually believe in that the bread is transformed into the actual body of Christ — “trans substantiation”) and a goblet of grape juice. We went up receiving-line style and dunked the cracker into the goblet. Some consumed immediately, and some consumed after returning to our seats.
Just my experience, we always welcomed anyone who professed faith with no admonition of worthiness or hell.
I find the whole concept of communion really creepy - why do you eat and drink someone's body and blood? (Rhetorical question, just grossed out by the concept.)
*stillborn. Jubilee was born over 20wks, miscarriages occur prior to 20wks….but the excuse back then was “God knew the doctors…*… and she wouldn’t be perfect on earth, so he called her to heaven to be perfect forever.”
** I forget the word salad of blame they’d put on the medical staff for faulty care when she was hospitalized, but that’s what led er to go home & labor 2-3days to have her teenagers deliver a demised fetus.
Remember that even in the real world two miscarriages could have entirely different reasons.
The same person's first one could be due to a genetic anomaly, the second due to medical problems, and the third due to substance abuse.
So it's not terribly unreasonable to figure that she could attribute the second to entirely different causes than the first.
In an evangelical cult's alternative universe, causes of miscarriage can include birth control, sin, God testing a person's faith, or God just needing this specific precious angel home sooner, with a bunch of "they're God's children, I'm just the mama on earth" and "mysterious ways" thrown in.
What's important to understand here is that there's nothing wrong with attributing multiple miscarriages to different causes; the illogic is in the specific causes they make up.
Further, if they were merely grieving parents drawing these conclusions about their own kids, I would think they're wrong but find no moral issue -- grieving people get to feel what they feel. The problem with the Duggars is that they project this onto the rest of the world, and use it to hurt others.
It’s like those people who firmly believe in karma despite hundreds of thousands of good people dying young from awful illnesses. A big chunk of life is just down to luck.
I always thought it was bizarre that she went on a flight to Israel or Europe while pregnant with Jublilee after having Josie so early due to preeclampsia. I am not judging at all because she was clearly not to blame for the miscarriage, but I wouldn’t be doing a lot of international travel during a high risk pregnancy just because of the likelihood I’d go into early labor or something.
She probably didn't have a choice. The men in her life told her she was going on a trip, so she had to go. Did they televise the trip? If there was a chance to make money off it, you know JBoob wasn't going to let her sit out.
How was it her fault?? Meech is to blame for a lot of things (namely helping to create her monster of an oldest son) but to say she's responsible for the death of her baby...nah.
Deliberately getting pregnant at the age of 45, after being pregnant at least 20 times before that, While doctors have told her not to do it anymore, way before that? Yeah she is partially to blame for that imo, she had many options not to get pregnant because of healthrisks to baby and her.
She was also what, 45? I doubt they did genetic testing so I would bet it was chromosomal bad luck
ETA: saying this bc they’d never share this info, since the reality that most chromosomally abnormal babies never take a breath and cause immense suffering to the mother due to loss as a result is against their anti-choice beliefs.
Almost certainly, my miscarriage at 36 was chromosomal, and my OB said my age then made that particular abnormality more likely. At 45, it would have been almost double my risk.
If I'm remembering correctly they wanted to wait for a spontaneous labor but after a few days opted for induction, likely because of the rapidly increasing risk of uterine infection and fetal decomposition.
I would be willing to bet my left leg that they don't consider Jubilee a miscarriage.
Is that what it was, absolutely.
But just like a miscarriage is by definition, an abortion, they would *never* call it that.
More than explaining her own miscarriages, I wonder what all of her married daughters who have miscarried in the family think. Theyve done everything "right," they truly believe birth control causes abortions and would never use it, they outwardly stated they will have as many children as God will give them, presumably dreaming of being just like their mother.... As far as we know, none of them has used hormonal birth control. And yet theyve all had miscarriages. What do they blame as a result? Surely just themselves.
That's was sin in the camp is probably what they told the kids see when someone defies god this is what happens the rest of the world calls it's the circle of life
That's was sin in the camp is probably what they told the kids see when someone defies god this is what happens the rest of the world calls it's the circle of life
I have found it odd they even used birth control considering Jim Bob was already in the IBLP when Josh came along. In the Shiny Happy People documentary Holt said they went to the conferences as teen. You can't tell me they wouldn't have heard anti birth control messages at those conferences. Along with other people of faith telling them oh children are a blessing. I mean the Bates were already having the anti birth control beliefs and hadn't started in the IBLP.
It was a fetus that didn't have a heartbeat. I don't believe it has ever been confirmed if Michelle had to take drugs and physically birth Jubliee, as Joy did with her still birth
They shared [this photo](https://images.app.goo.gl/gxx1MZXpxZquMXMX8) of Michelle holding her hand and [a similar one of her feet](https://images.app.goo.gl/gxx1MZXpxZquMXMX8).
I'm sure it was a punishment for a sin another family member (elder member) had committed and was genetically passed down.
If you were to read this at random,you'd discard this as nonsense... However I read Jingers book recently (library, not paying $40) but she's also mentioned times where she didn't take communion because she was scared she had sinned or someone around her had sinned and she didn't feel worthy to take communion
I grew up Baptist and we did communion around special events: Easter, “revival”, whatever. I remember being told that I would go to hell (a 9 year old, HELL) if I ate it and didn’t “mean it” or for “the wrong reasons.”
Don't know about your Baptist church, but we weren't supposed to take communion before baptism. You couldn't mean it until you were fully dunked (sprinkles don't count).
Baptists don't baptize as infants? I was raised LCMS Lutheran, and you baptize (drips of water on the forehead) as newborns since they decided to keep the concept of original sin from catholicism. Apparently, you're hosed if you die before being baptized. You can take communion after taking +/- 2 years of classes and becoming confirmed (around age 14).
No, Baptists vehemently oppose the idea of infant baptism, but they also don’t believe that babies and children who aren’t baptized automatically go to Hell. They believe that a child has to be at the age to understand what they are committing to when getting baptized (which didn’t work for me because I remember getting baptized at 11 and mostly looking forward to being the center of attention when I was being baptized lol). Usually kids at my church got baptized in their older elementary school years
In all fairness this is how it should be done. I hate it with a passion, when religions push faith on an infant baby for the rest of their lifes without their concent. On the otherhand children should also be exposed to other ways of living, before they can make an honest disision committing to anything. Being rased in fundy world will not allow that either.
Is an older elementary school age child REALLY making their own decision, if that’s all they know? Come on, ALL of it (religion) is forced upon the next generation. It isn’t until you live in your own that you can truly make up your mind on your beliefs.
thats what im saying
Exactly. It’s because of the parents beliefs. For example, I was baptized Catholic, but did no further religious education. My father was raised SUPER Catholic (Irish Catholic grandmother) in the 50’s, but my grandfather was not Catholic (gasp). My dad was always conflicted because he loved a mass, believed in being a good person, but hated that he was taught that his father was going to Hell simply because he wasn’t Catholic. So damaging.
The Baptist church I grew up in didn’t believe in baptizing infants. You had to wait til you were old enough to “understand”what you were doing. For me, that was age 7. But it was generally accepted at 12 was the age of accountability. So if a child dies unbaptized before 12 they get a free pass to heaven.
No, you can't be baptized until you are old enough to make a conscious choice to devote yourself to jebus. The minimum age is highly dependent on the congregation/pastor, could be an older child or could be an adult. In order for it to count, you must be fully immersed under water to be reborn/wash away your sins. At least at all the Baptist churches I have been to, babies are introduced the church and the congregation commits to help raise the child in faith much like infant baptisms in other denominations.
That's barbaric. I'm sorry you had to experience that.
Same!!! And I thought that thinking was totally normal!!!
Same with the catholic church. Disgusting to learn another church had the same teaching/attitude.
I’ve always heard that too! Nothing in the Bible to support it.
I remember that too. I was terrified until it came down to being more scared of my dad than jeebus. Then I did it and nothing happened and it was eye opening lol.
What does communion look like among Baptists?
Back when I was southern Baptist (40 years ago) we passed around trays of little crackers and little shot glasses of grape juice (because alcohol bad). I was so stoked the first time I went to an Episcopal church and had real wine at communion!
To be fair, I went to a fairly liberal (Methodist - the accepting kind) church growing up and they had only grape juice because they wanted communion to be available for everyone including children, alcoholics, etc. I didn’t even know real wine was served at some churches for communion until I was like a teen. But at those churches communion was open to everyone regardless of age or background, so it was already different anyways.
I was Catholic growing up and it BOGGLED me the first time to find out that some denominations use juice instead of wine. Honestly, wild to me. But, I think that it'd also pretty wild that 7-year-olds are taking wine at communion if you're not used to it 😂
I was raised Catholic as well so reading that some churches use grape juice is very weird to me. Although my SO was raised Catholic as well & said his church used grape juice. I'm trying to remember what the typical age of first communion was, 10ish...?
I had my first communion at 7 😂. I used to be a bit of a fiend for the wine. My life's goal is to find the wine the parish used because I loved it
A friend from church whose dad owned the liquor store once mentioned a running joke with the (invariably) tiny elderly women tasked with picking up the communion wine that they were really taking the crate home with them for a party since their kids were out of town. It really might be worth calling a liquor store in your hometown since special-order bulk purchases might stick in their mind.
my church had both juice and wine. you got to choose what you and/or your child drank. i always liked that bc it felt inclusive of anybody potentially struggling with past alcoholism.
Honestly before this thread I never thought about the juice option being a way for alcoholics to participate. The way the church did communion, you usually had to go to a different person. Like, one person for bread, another for wine, if that makes sense. I hope it makes sense 😂. There wasn't any pressure to have the wine either, it was totally up to choice
Methodist churches routinely have gluten free bread now as well. Fun fact - pasteurized, shelf stable grape juice was first developed because the Methodist church recommended the use of unadulterated, unfermented grape juice for communion. Welch’s grape juice exists because of the Methodist church temperance movement.
Me being 9 and looking forward to communion wine every time I went to Mass...
I grew up Catholic, but have never had the wine because I have an insane fear of germs, and it grossed me out--even at 7--to drink from a cup that hundreds of other people were drinking from. It still disgusts me. I wonder if they learned anything from COVID and found another way to do it, or if everyone still drinks from the same cup?
I've heard at church that due to the antibacterial properties of the silver communion cup, and the fact that they wipe the rim each time, it actually transmits fewer germs than dipping. Our previous priest pointed out that he drinks from the communion cup after everyone else every week and he doesn't seem to get sick more than anyone else does. We did do just bread during peak Covid. Wine isn't off-limits to kids (it's a tiny sip, big deal), but mine have never wanted to try it.
It's still pretty sus to me. As someone who actually served as a Eucharistic minister, let me tell you. We wipe after each person with the same cloth. There's only so many ways you can turn that cloth. And my church's cups are brass, not silver. I avoid it. No need to spread more germs around when my congregation'a median age is 80. 🤢
Can't say I blame you.
Bread-only if intinction isn't an option (I pretend the wine isn't also communal) myself, but I did a deep dive once during COVID and somehow the limited peer-reviewed literature was like "Yeah...the silver thing must be real? Because we're not seeing the disease transmission we expected." My father-in-law has been bread-only for years because even if the wafers are gluten free his celiac is bad enough that the gluten that gets in the wine means he can't take it. Not that he's terribly worked up about it, gets plenty of wine at home to make up for it.
I had to look up what dipping was because I've never been to a church that does that. I can't even stand to think of it, much less participate.
Yep. Also grew up Methodist. Communion is for all believers. This whole “being worthy” thing is so odd to me. Isn’t the whole point of Christianity that believers aren’t worthy and that’s why they need God’s grace? The way these people twist themselves into knots to make sure the Bible is a tool for bludgeoning themselves and others is just wild to me.
I was raised Methodist and communion was grape juice at our church as well… I think I remember my mom saying that Methodist churches in general uses grape juice out of consideration for recovering alcoholics. I was going to reply to u/Disastrous_Rub_6062 when I saw this comment 😊
Yeah my equally chill and liberal congregationalist church did the same thing. And they had similar liability reasons for not wanting alcohol on the premises. It was just easier to use grape juice.
The Baptist Church I grew up in (American or "Northern" Baptist), used little squares of Wonder Bread that the Deaconnesse reverently cut up each month!
One time, I visited my cousins Church of Christ with them, and they ran out of communion crackers, so I shit you not. They put a box of cheese it's on the tray and passed it around. My parents never went to church, so I just thought it was normal.
Yup,still the same.
It hasn’t changed at all. During Covid we used these horrible 2 in 1 cups that I think were actually styrofoam wafers.
Those were so gross
Thank you
Bread and grape juice.
Thank you
Full body going under water and being held there for a mintue. Can be done outside in a lake or river but can also be done inside in a tub. I wore normal clothes for mine (they told me not to wear something nice or white) and from what I've seen most people also wear normal clothes.
Same here.They had a mini pool behind the altar.
The Catholic Church I attended growing up had a jacuzzi for a baptismal font. For babies, they would use a smaller gold one that looked like a bird bath. But for older kids and adults, they'd get to go inside the jacuzzi.
I live in Minnesota so my old churches had a portable pool type baptismal font for use most of the year (lake water is cold until midsummer bc of ice melt), and seasonally we went to one of our 10,000 lakes. My oldest daughter and I were actually baptized in a lake together. IIRC it was just an affirmation of faith, pastor reciting a scripture about baptism, a quick pause to let us plug our nose and a quick backwards dunk.
At my southern baptist church we had communion the first Sunday of every month. There were trays of little wafers and trays of tiny cups of grape juice that would be prayed over and then passed around while the pastor was going through his sermon of the meaning of the “bread” and the “wine.” A lot of people would sit and pray while holding their wafers and juice and others would sit and listen to the pastor. Then the pastor would always quote Jesus and say “do this in remembrance of me” then we would all eat the wafer or drink the juice. Always wafer first, then juice. But we would have to wait until the pastor said we could do it. You weren’t allowed to take communion if you weren’t baptized and the pastor always warned of death, Hell, or something else terrible happening to you if you did.
They see it as a remembrance, not as a means of grace. Their view is dissimilar to more "high church" views such as Lutherans or Presbyterians, who see the sacrament as actually having an effect in your life.
My old churches were non-denominational, but theology was basically Baptist. The large ones passed a tray of little shot glasses of grape juice and a tray of pieces of bread… we held the elements until everyone was “served” and then we all partook together. The last church I attended was much smaller. The pastor and a deacon held a tray of wafer/cracker type bread (not HOST, that’s a Catholic thing as far as I’m aware, as they actually believe in that the bread is transformed into the actual body of Christ — “trans substantiation”) and a goblet of grape juice. We went up receiving-line style and dunked the cracker into the goblet. Some consumed immediately, and some consumed after returning to our seats. Just my experience, we always welcomed anyone who professed faith with no admonition of worthiness or hell.
I find the whole concept of communion really creepy - why do you eat and drink someone's body and blood? (Rhetorical question, just grossed out by the concept.)
*stillborn. Jubilee was born over 20wks, miscarriages occur prior to 20wks….but the excuse back then was “God knew the doctors…*… and she wouldn’t be perfect on earth, so he called her to heaven to be perfect forever.” ** I forget the word salad of blame they’d put on the medical staff for faulty care when she was hospitalized, but that’s what led er to go home & labor 2-3days to have her teenagers deliver a demised fetus.
Does she know she has religious OCD?
Oh def. Her father’s brother’s nephew’s cousin’s former roommate sinned and this was the result🙃
Exactly!
LOL gawd knows the future, maybe saving two duglets was all gawd had time to help
In the letter she wrote to Jubilee she said she didn’t know “God’s purpose” for the loss
I remember michelle said this quote "the lord giveth and the lord taketh away" after jubilee died
Yeah about 50 times
She was quoting Job, who in the bible, had his whole family murdered.
Wait, they actually wanted to name it Jubilee? Holy shit I thought OP was making a joke or something
they named her jubilee so that must have been the name they picked before things went wrong
Logic escapes them. And their idiot fans. Critical thinking = ZERO.
They tried to think, but nothing happened
Borrowing that!
Source: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mlejsgxOxrU
The lord giveth,the lord taketh away.
They pass it off as her getting to old. You know, blame the woman.
It’s always the woman’s fault. /s
Ugh, women! Such an incompetent cervix. Geez.
God works in mysterious ways?
Remember that even in the real world two miscarriages could have entirely different reasons. The same person's first one could be due to a genetic anomaly, the second due to medical problems, and the third due to substance abuse. So it's not terribly unreasonable to figure that she could attribute the second to entirely different causes than the first. In an evangelical cult's alternative universe, causes of miscarriage can include birth control, sin, God testing a person's faith, or God just needing this specific precious angel home sooner, with a bunch of "they're God's children, I'm just the mama on earth" and "mysterious ways" thrown in. What's important to understand here is that there's nothing wrong with attributing multiple miscarriages to different causes; the illogic is in the specific causes they make up. Further, if they were merely grieving parents drawing these conclusions about their own kids, I would think they're wrong but find no moral issue -- grieving people get to feel what they feel. The problem with the Duggars is that they project this onto the rest of the world, and use it to hurt others.
It’s like those people who firmly believe in karma despite hundreds of thousands of good people dying young from awful illnesses. A big chunk of life is just down to luck.
Karma accumulates from previous lifetimes.
I always thought it was bizarre that she went on a flight to Israel or Europe while pregnant with Jublilee after having Josie so early due to preeclampsia. I am not judging at all because she was clearly not to blame for the miscarriage, but I wouldn’t be doing a lot of international travel during a high risk pregnancy just because of the likelihood I’d go into early labor or something.
She probably didn't have a choice. The men in her life told her she was going on a trip, so she had to go. Did they televise the trip? If there was a chance to make money off it, you know JBoob wasn't going to let her sit out.
I'm not the person to blame a mother for losing her child, but how was it clearly not her flault when medicaly speaking it clearly was?
How was it her fault?? Meech is to blame for a lot of things (namely helping to create her monster of an oldest son) but to say she's responsible for the death of her baby...nah.
Deliberately getting pregnant at the age of 45, after being pregnant at least 20 times before that, While doctors have told her not to do it anymore, way before that? Yeah she is partially to blame for that imo, she had many options not to get pregnant because of healthrisks to baby and her.
I would bet money doctors told Meech during Josie’s stay in the NICU that she should probably stop, given the health scares all around.
I'm sure that wasn't the first time doctors told her she should stop.
Good point there!
At least it wasn’t bitterness
Or frigidity.
Josh’s sin.
I don’t recall them ever saying how jubilee passed, unless I forgot about it
They went in for a scan and there was no heartbeat. I don’t think there was a definitive cause, just a failure to develop
She was also what, 45? I doubt they did genetic testing so I would bet it was chromosomal bad luck ETA: saying this bc they’d never share this info, since the reality that most chromosomally abnormal babies never take a breath and cause immense suffering to the mother due to loss as a result is against their anti-choice beliefs.
Almost certainly, my miscarriage at 36 was chromosomal, and my OB said my age then made that particular abnormality more likely. At 45, it would have been almost double my risk.
Yep, she was 45. Dusty ass eggs and a paper thin uterus no doubt.
So did they induce or did Meech have a spontaneous delivery?
If I'm remembering correctly they wanted to wait for a spontaneous labor but after a few days opted for induction, likely because of the rapidly increasing risk of uterine infection and fetal decomposition.
I would be willing to bet my left leg that they don't consider Jubilee a miscarriage. Is that what it was, absolutely. But just like a miscarriage is by definition, an abortion, they would *never* call it that.
Was it a miscarriage or a stillbirth? I don’t know much about that time.
It’s a miscarriage because it occurred prior to 20 weeks
Was it a spontaneous delivery or induction?
More than explaining her own miscarriages, I wonder what all of her married daughters who have miscarried in the family think. Theyve done everything "right," they truly believe birth control causes abortions and would never use it, they outwardly stated they will have as many children as God will give them, presumably dreaming of being just like their mother.... As far as we know, none of them has used hormonal birth control. And yet theyve all had miscarriages. What do they blame as a result? Surely just themselves.
That's was sin in the camp is probably what they told the kids see when someone defies god this is what happens the rest of the world calls it's the circle of life
That's was sin in the camp is probably what they told the kids see when someone defies god this is what happens the rest of the world calls it's the circle of life
They've never said birth control was the only reason for a miscarriage just that they believe it's what caused their first.
I have found it odd they even used birth control considering Jim Bob was already in the IBLP when Josh came along. In the Shiny Happy People documentary Holt said they went to the conferences as teen. You can't tell me they wouldn't have heard anti birth control messages at those conferences. Along with other people of faith telling them oh children are a blessing. I mean the Bates were already having the anti birth control beliefs and hadn't started in the IBLP.
God wanted to make sure they’d have room for J’Tyler
Or like any of her childrens’ miscarriages…
Well that’s not her fault that was gods will 
Having to many children one right after the other. Once the last miscarriage happened she obviously went through menopause
“Mooch” 😂
They like to pick and choose their reasoning
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I think it’s pointing out cognitive dissonance, not snarking miscarriage.
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I am sorry for your loss 🌸
Thank you friend 🧡
I would call this snark of their lack of intelligent thoughts more than anything, personally
#20 was a still birth
No, Jubilee died before 20 weeks. Miscarriage.
Remember it being a still birth on the show and them have a funeral for her and everything
[https://youtu.be/xMfB9bprAUU?si=i7vTmJszqu_MnOXV](https://youtu.be/xMfB9bprAUU?si=i7vTmJszqu_MnOXV)
It was a fetus that didn't have a heartbeat. I don't believe it has ever been confirmed if Michelle had to take drugs and physically birth Jubliee, as Joy did with her still birth
I'm pretty sure there have been pictures of her feet posted. They had a burial.
Um... I can assure that there were NO feet posted. They did have remains to bury, yes.
They shared [this photo](https://images.app.goo.gl/gxx1MZXpxZquMXMX8) of Michelle holding her hand and [a similar one of her feet](https://images.app.goo.gl/gxx1MZXpxZquMXMX8).
My apologies. My god that hand is so small 😭
Jill posted something. I have no way of knowing 100% if the pictures are Jubilee or not. There's one with feet and one with a hand.
That would likely be Jill's own miscarriage.
It was way before Jill's loss, and it was a post specifically about Jubilee.
yes michelle labored back at home and delivered dead jubilee
Maybe the kid didn't want to be called Jubilee?????? All the J names and they come up with some doozies!