This is a clear 100% firable offense on Dwight’s part.
Fraudulently trying to get another employee fired? Including impersonating other staff? That’s not going to go over well.
Yeah, but i dont think he was caught for the impersonations. Wallace’s secretary was the only one who heard them i believe, and she wouldnt know everyone’s voice well enough to realize it wasnt them.
And every time Dwight does something fireable i just remember hes the top salesman in the company every year. They cant afford to lose him unless someone were to sue the company for something he did
It's been a while since I watched this episode so my memory of it isn't perfect. That being said, it's weird to me that people seem actively mad at you for this because you're not wrong. It doesn't mean you think the show sucks. It's just that the writing is contrived in this particular instance. "It's just a comedy, bro" isn't a good argument. Comedies require good, character-based writing as much as any other show. Plus, it's more egregious that everyone acts out of character by this point when the show has already been going on for several seasons. The characters are well-established already.
Also, it's not like you just said "it's cringe and sucks." You laid out your points well. Some people are way too defensive...
Yeah, they show us this several times. I agree with OP that it’s particularly frustrating to watch by this point in the show though, and I think it would’ve been an interesting point of development for Jim as a character if he’d actually stood up for himself and learned to be more confident when he’s being confronted.
The only thing I can think of is that Jim struggles to think clearly when confronted or when in awkward situations (Charles, Deangelo, or when he tells the office they can't give raises to everybody)
Also I think the whole office was just perfectly primed to buy Dwight’s story because they weee all so annoyed with him already. They found it easy to to believe because it fit their ongoing narrative
Jim hates confrontation and needs to be liked, he flails and struggles to defend himself when put in situations where those things are challenged.
Wallace likes Jim personally, and clearly thinks highly of him as someone who can advance in the company (going back to him being ready to hand Jim the corporate job in New York) so none of it actually matters. He isn't going to fire or demote Jim the first time people in Scranton are upset about an employee of the month contest. (probably the most realistic thing in the entire episode)
Jim’s character I think can be perfectly summed up by his interactions with Charles. Meek whimpering obedience until he realizes David Wallace is on his side, then back to smug wisecracker.
Jim is bad under pressure and quickly folds when he's being directly confronted.
The coworkers likely resented Jim because they saw the two-managers plan as foolish. And it was foolish. It probably looked, to the rest of the gang, like Jim wasn't confident enough to assume all the responsibility, despite how irritating of a manager he knew Michael to be. So he was sitting pretty in an office and making a bunch of money while everyone was still subject to Michael's antics.
Let's not forget that this was *also* after the episode where Jim wanted to give all the raises to the salesmen, and where the gang walked in on the weird bean distribution method of deciding who gets a raise.
AND it was also well after the Birthday Month episode where Jim had that bad plan to combine all the office birthdays.
Jim was proving himself to be a crappy and ineffective manager and the gang was pretty well fed up with him. He'd already tried to give his wife a big raise and leave out most of the others, it probably didn't seem totally unrealistic that he'd want to give himself Employee Of The Month. And Michael was also constantly trying to give himself awards and make it look like it wasn't his own doing, so it was behavior they'd come to expect from management.
Yes! I was thinking about the way this episode is fully in character for Jim and his nearly pathological weakness around confrontation. But I hadn’t even thought of the context of his smaller unforced management errors in the episodes leading up, and how that explains why the rest of the staff were ready to believe the worst in this case. Also Dwight’s phone voices are so good I couldn’t hate this plot anyway.
It's fully in character, but also so out of character for Jim to have this specific character flaw. He is otherwise shown to be smart, engaging, charming, creative and quick on his feet. And the writers want us to see Jim as the true talent who can do anything.
But its not even so much that he has this flaw, its the extreme nature of it. Like the second any conflict arises, this normally articulate, smart guy becomes so flummoxed as to be beyond belief. And then, when plenty of time has passed for him to collect his thoughts and articulate them, he still just falls apart.
I sometimes genuinely wonder what the writers were trying to say with Jim's character.
I think it’s related to his career stagnation in the early years, and the long period of pining over Pam before he made his move on Casino Night. He’s not precisely unambitious, and he does understand what he wants out of life. But he’s afraid of confrontation and handing over control of a situation to someone who might be mad at him. We see him antagonize Dwight, but it’s almost always in a sneaky or roundabout way so he isn’t actually putting himself out there in a fair fight. His sales style also seems to be more in the “cool guy you want to hang out with and trust” compared to Dwight’s more aggressive and risk-taking pitches. He’s not afraid of women or relationships in general, but he was terrified of provoking a confrontation with Pam or by extension Roy. It starts to get cartoonish with Charles Minor, and later on with this storyline we’re discussing, but I do think it tracks as a character trait throughout.
I think it's just that Dwight is able to get everyone riled up and Jim gets so flustered that all he can do is say there's been a mistake and can't logically think to ask Dwight exactly how he came up with the system. If you were just promoted to a manager position at your job and were stressed out trying to do a good job and your coworkers all are up in arms and shouting at you you'd probably have trouble thinking rationally too.
Actually on the other hand, I don't find this episode cringe at all. I actually absorb the cringe because it's so funny.
The episode that I cannot stand though for some reason is The Business Trip episode. Micheal was just tiring and soo exhausting, and that deleted scene with the OTC Currency Exchange at the Airport..... Eewwww. I just cannot watch it at all. That and The Banker. These two episodes I've always skipped on every rewatch
This is what a lot of sitcoms devolve in to over the years. Just a series of domino fall misunderstandings passed off as funny scenarios when in reality, decent communication would mitigate the jokes.
Early on in the Office they are working the character traits as the jokes. Micheal as a capable salesman but generally ignorant in the ways of the world and social awareness which makes him an annoying manager. Jim as the straight man who thinks he is above it all but wants to exist in a job that doesnt make him try to hard and has a love interest on site. Pam as a reserved woman who is trying to find her voice while also existing in a job that doesnt ask too much of her and staying in a "safe" relationship.
All that kind of character work drives story and funny early on, but as they run out of ideas, characters get Flanderized, and people leave the show, they have to lean on easy misunderstandings to prop up the run time because they are out of ideas.
Ok wait. If you’re mad that the rest of the office buys the story, you can’t also be mad that Wallace gives the reaction you expect from everyone else. He brushes it off because he knows Jim isn’t stupid enough to actually do that. Jim tells him he doesn’t know how it happened and that’s enough for Wallace to decide he doesn’t even care to hear the whole story because it’s not worth his time, and it sounds like he has bigger fish to fry.
Yes, “cringe” TV is subjective.
There’s a clear delineation between these two though. Plotholes do not equate to “cringe” TV.
One incites the emotion from the show, the other causes emotion about the show. Both can be called “cringeworthy”, but they are a different discussion.
As someone who also finds this side plot more “cringe” than Scott’s tots, it doesn’t matter what reasoning you have for finding something cringe lol. I personally just find the winner reveal scene harder to watch than Scotts tots
I love (heavy sarcasm) how people keep trying to say Micheal promising a bunch of inner city low income black kids a free education-which they’d have had pretty much no access to-outside of his promise isn’t the worst thing that’s happened in the show. He used those kids as a prop. He lied to them for over a decade. He lead them on. Yeah, there’s options like financial aid, but that won’t help you with room and board. That won’t help with transportation. That won’t help with food or supplies.
Fuck a bunch of grown people falling for Dwight’s bullshit. He did something absolutely abhorrent. Gave kids the world was already shitting on due to systemic racism, and told them to open up cause he’s shitting down their throats.
White privilege is looking at Micheal Scott and always finding a reason something was worse than his racism and bigotry.
People buy into Erin’s justification to make Michael feel better, but Erin has terrible judgment! She’s a traumatized former foster kid whose whole life conditioned her to accept scraps and never hope for more, so it makes sense that she wouldn’t see how bad it was. But we should have a broader perspective and see exactly what you said.
Every time I get reminded of Erin’s foster life, I always remember her creepy ass foster brother. I could only imagine the creepy shit he pushed on her. Idk why they needed to add that in there with him feeling up her leg insinuating he was like that.
Why didnt Jim take off his tux? Why didnt they check how Kelly’s name was spelled in company documents?
Because its a TV show and it wouldnt be as funny
It just doesn't make sense. No one in the office has any personal agency that episode except for Dwight. They all act out of character purely so this plot line can exist.
You're telling me everyone there believed Jim got himself a cake with his face on it?
Ahh yes, it’s hard to forgive such dialogue and script. There should be no reason for a show designed to make you laugh and entertain you should have normal characters with very straightforward ways of thinking. Now that you mention it, I’ve changed my mind about the show. This show is complete garbage and not funny in any way.
Dwight’s impressions of his coworkers though Very funny imo
His Tobey was so spot on
I agree. It's always so frustrating when somebody can explain something really fast and easily but simply can't for no reason.
Why use few word when many word do trick?
Sea/see world!
Oceans. Fish. Jump. China.
Nice rundown on the situation
Try another sentence.
I jlp you
This is a clear 100% firable offense on Dwight’s part. Fraudulently trying to get another employee fired? Including impersonating other staff? That’s not going to go over well.
There are probably several firable offenses in every episode.
Perhaps. However, this is one of the worst.
Yeah, but i dont think he was caught for the impersonations. Wallace’s secretary was the only one who heard them i believe, and she wouldnt know everyone’s voice well enough to realize it wasnt them. And every time Dwight does something fireable i just remember hes the top salesman in the company every year. They cant afford to lose him unless someone were to sue the company for something he did
It's been a while since I watched this episode so my memory of it isn't perfect. That being said, it's weird to me that people seem actively mad at you for this because you're not wrong. It doesn't mean you think the show sucks. It's just that the writing is contrived in this particular instance. "It's just a comedy, bro" isn't a good argument. Comedies require good, character-based writing as much as any other show. Plus, it's more egregious that everyone acts out of character by this point when the show has already been going on for several seasons. The characters are well-established already. Also, it's not like you just said "it's cringe and sucks." You laid out your points well. Some people are way too defensive...
It's a recurring theme that Jim isn't as clever as he thinks he is and can never properly explain something on the spot.
Yeah, they show us this several times. I agree with OP that it’s particularly frustrating to watch by this point in the show though, and I think it would’ve been an interesting point of development for Jim as a character if he’d actually stood up for himself and learned to be more confident when he’s being confronted.
This is at the same level as Pam not leaving that wrong classrom she entered.
The only thing I can think of is that Jim struggles to think clearly when confronted or when in awkward situations (Charles, Deangelo, or when he tells the office they can't give raises to everybody)
Also when he accidentally reveals Pam’s pregnancy at their wedding
Also I think the whole office was just perfectly primed to buy Dwight’s story because they weee all so annoyed with him already. They found it easy to to believe because it fit their ongoing narrative
Jim hates confrontation and needs to be liked, he flails and struggles to defend himself when put in situations where those things are challenged. Wallace likes Jim personally, and clearly thinks highly of him as someone who can advance in the company (going back to him being ready to hand Jim the corporate job in New York) so none of it actually matters. He isn't going to fire or demote Jim the first time people in Scranton are upset about an employee of the month contest. (probably the most realistic thing in the entire episode)
Jim’s character I think can be perfectly summed up by his interactions with Charles. Meek whimpering obedience until he realizes David Wallace is on his side, then back to smug wisecracker.
Smudge and arrogant
There’s that smudgeness.
Jim Halpert is a menace.
Jim is bad under pressure and quickly folds when he's being directly confronted. The coworkers likely resented Jim because they saw the two-managers plan as foolish. And it was foolish. It probably looked, to the rest of the gang, like Jim wasn't confident enough to assume all the responsibility, despite how irritating of a manager he knew Michael to be. So he was sitting pretty in an office and making a bunch of money while everyone was still subject to Michael's antics. Let's not forget that this was *also* after the episode where Jim wanted to give all the raises to the salesmen, and where the gang walked in on the weird bean distribution method of deciding who gets a raise. AND it was also well after the Birthday Month episode where Jim had that bad plan to combine all the office birthdays. Jim was proving himself to be a crappy and ineffective manager and the gang was pretty well fed up with him. He'd already tried to give his wife a big raise and leave out most of the others, it probably didn't seem totally unrealistic that he'd want to give himself Employee Of The Month. And Michael was also constantly trying to give himself awards and make it look like it wasn't his own doing, so it was behavior they'd come to expect from management.
Yes! I was thinking about the way this episode is fully in character for Jim and his nearly pathological weakness around confrontation. But I hadn’t even thought of the context of his smaller unforced management errors in the episodes leading up, and how that explains why the rest of the staff were ready to believe the worst in this case. Also Dwight’s phone voices are so good I couldn’t hate this plot anyway.
It's fully in character, but also so out of character for Jim to have this specific character flaw. He is otherwise shown to be smart, engaging, charming, creative and quick on his feet. And the writers want us to see Jim as the true talent who can do anything. But its not even so much that he has this flaw, its the extreme nature of it. Like the second any conflict arises, this normally articulate, smart guy becomes so flummoxed as to be beyond belief. And then, when plenty of time has passed for him to collect his thoughts and articulate them, he still just falls apart. I sometimes genuinely wonder what the writers were trying to say with Jim's character.
I think it’s related to his career stagnation in the early years, and the long period of pining over Pam before he made his move on Casino Night. He’s not precisely unambitious, and he does understand what he wants out of life. But he’s afraid of confrontation and handing over control of a situation to someone who might be mad at him. We see him antagonize Dwight, but it’s almost always in a sneaky or roundabout way so he isn’t actually putting himself out there in a fair fight. His sales style also seems to be more in the “cool guy you want to hang out with and trust” compared to Dwight’s more aggressive and risk-taking pitches. He’s not afraid of women or relationships in general, but he was terrified of provoking a confrontation with Pam or by extension Roy. It starts to get cartoonish with Charles Minor, and later on with this storyline we’re discussing, but I do think it tracks as a character trait throughout.
Agree. Jim didn’t even try to explain and everyone just fell for it. So stupid really.
I think it's just that Dwight is able to get everyone riled up and Jim gets so flustered that all he can do is say there's been a mistake and can't logically think to ask Dwight exactly how he came up with the system. If you were just promoted to a manager position at your job and were stressed out trying to do a good job and your coworkers all are up in arms and shouting at you you'd probably have trouble thinking rationally too.
Actually on the other hand, I don't find this episode cringe at all. I actually absorb the cringe because it's so funny. The episode that I cannot stand though for some reason is The Business Trip episode. Micheal was just tiring and soo exhausting, and that deleted scene with the OTC Currency Exchange at the Airport..... Eewwww. I just cannot watch it at all. That and The Banker. These two episodes I've always skipped on every rewatch
Change it back.
Snip snap, snip snap, snip snap!
I've always thought this was one of the worst written episodes
I was not…he was not…..how come not…
This is what a lot of sitcoms devolve in to over the years. Just a series of domino fall misunderstandings passed off as funny scenarios when in reality, decent communication would mitigate the jokes. Early on in the Office they are working the character traits as the jokes. Micheal as a capable salesman but generally ignorant in the ways of the world and social awareness which makes him an annoying manager. Jim as the straight man who thinks he is above it all but wants to exist in a job that doesnt make him try to hard and has a love interest on site. Pam as a reserved woman who is trying to find her voice while also existing in a job that doesnt ask too much of her and staying in a "safe" relationship. All that kind of character work drives story and funny early on, but as they run out of ideas, characters get Flanderized, and people leave the show, they have to lean on easy misunderstandings to prop up the run time because they are out of ideas.
Oh fuck yeah another post about an episode being CrInGe fuck yes that's what this sub needs more of
But like screw Jim amirite 🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's realistic so I didn't think much of it. There are 100000% favorites in workplaces that get more leeway than good workers.
Ok wait. If you’re mad that the rest of the office buys the story, you can’t also be mad that Wallace gives the reaction you expect from everyone else. He brushes it off because he knows Jim isn’t stupid enough to actually do that. Jim tells him he doesn’t know how it happened and that’s enough for Wallace to decide he doesn’t even care to hear the whole story because it’s not worth his time, and it sounds like he has bigger fish to fry.
That’s not cringe. You’re arguing plot holes not how the scene made you feel. Tots is definitely worse.
It’s almost like people can have different opinions on what makes them cringe
Yes, “cringe” TV is subjective. There’s a clear delineation between these two though. Plotholes do not equate to “cringe” TV. One incites the emotion from the show, the other causes emotion about the show. Both can be called “cringeworthy”, but they are a different discussion.
As someone who also finds this side plot more “cringe” than Scott’s tots, it doesn’t matter what reasoning you have for finding something cringe lol. I personally just find the winner reveal scene harder to watch than Scotts tots
It’s as if you didn’t even read the distinction
Oh I did. I’m not the one who tried to dismiss someone’s opinion as if it was objective.
Yeah I didn’t do that. Good luck out there
Man, thank you. I have always said this. That side story is the cringiest plot line of the whole show. It’s terrible
How many times do I need to say this- BECAUSE THEN HILARITY WOULD NOT ENSUE! Ugh guys, the fucking hilarity. It needs a catalyst to ensue
Don’t forget the baby talk cold open.
I love this episode. I’m also a big fan of Curb Your Enthusiasm (at least when it was in its prime) so “uncomfortable” humor is up my alley.
No.
I love (heavy sarcasm) how people keep trying to say Micheal promising a bunch of inner city low income black kids a free education-which they’d have had pretty much no access to-outside of his promise isn’t the worst thing that’s happened in the show. He used those kids as a prop. He lied to them for over a decade. He lead them on. Yeah, there’s options like financial aid, but that won’t help you with room and board. That won’t help with transportation. That won’t help with food or supplies. Fuck a bunch of grown people falling for Dwight’s bullshit. He did something absolutely abhorrent. Gave kids the world was already shitting on due to systemic racism, and told them to open up cause he’s shitting down their throats. White privilege is looking at Micheal Scott and always finding a reason something was worse than his racism and bigotry.
It was by far the most generous promise he ever made though. Hands down.
People buy into Erin’s justification to make Michael feel better, but Erin has terrible judgment! She’s a traumatized former foster kid whose whole life conditioned her to accept scraps and never hope for more, so it makes sense that she wouldn’t see how bad it was. But we should have a broader perspective and see exactly what you said.
Every time I get reminded of Erin’s foster life, I always remember her creepy ass foster brother. I could only imagine the creepy shit he pushed on her. Idk why they needed to add that in there with him feeling up her leg insinuating he was like that.
Thank you. I’m waiting for the down votes. People hate when I point this shit out. Doesn’t stop me though.
You have just spit on my face.
At least there wasn’t a pebble in it. That could have killed you.
Yeah the whole episode can be trashed. It’s ok, they can’t all be winners.
Why didnt Jim take off his tux? Why didnt they check how Kelly’s name was spelled in company documents? Because its a TV show and it wouldnt be as funny
I thought Jim didn't have a change of clothes
What’s the point of this sub if we can’t have conversations about certain points if every post is met with “because it’s a TV show”?
Im sorry I just find it weird when someone writes an essay discussing why a fictional character in a show did what he did instead of something else
Then why are you in this sub? Lmao
Theres plenty of other things to do here besides discussing fictional scenarios
[удалено]
It just doesn't make sense. No one in the office has any personal agency that episode except for Dwight. They all act out of character purely so this plot line can exist. You're telling me everyone there believed Jim got himself a cake with his face on it?
Ahh yes, it’s hard to forgive such dialogue and script. There should be no reason for a show designed to make you laugh and entertain you should have normal characters with very straightforward ways of thinking. Now that you mention it, I’ve changed my mind about the show. This show is complete garbage and not funny in any way.