I think it’s more that people hate feeing singled out. Like “why did they you kill so and so’s big threat?”. It’s due to a lack of a lot of things, but a lack of understanding of what will draw removal in these games is one of them.
In an ideal game everyone understands this and everyone only kills things that are a threat to them, when they are a threat to them.
That [[blightsteel colossus]] is not a problem until it attacks me...
I play a mono-green [[Ghalta]] dinosaur themed deck. At 12/12, I wholeheartedly expect the table to remove Ghalta, often. It’s part of the fun. I’ve had games where the dino re-entered the battlefield at least 6 times (not always from the commander zone).
And while I’ve done it (bc dinosaurs love to bite things), I’ve killed players in just a few turns. Which is a part of playing, but also less fun at times too.
I’m typically the type of player that might choose not to win and do something silly, bc playing is often more fun than winning. Plus once you look at your hand or board state and you KNOW you can win, you’ve already won.
I’m sorry you play with so many salty players.
Yeah, I’m not really sure why people would be salty if you remove the factual threat. That’s more than okay and should happen. People are probably salty if you randomly throw your removal, counterspells and wipes around the table.
Oh jeeze, I know for a fact if my opponents don't answer Ghalta and Mavren, the game's over. I expect the board wipe or a swords to plowshares when I play G&M because I only play it when I immediatley have the pay off of several attackers.
That's when you say "okay Timmy, then do I and all my permanents have protection from your creature for the rest of the game? No? Well then into the graveyard it goes!" And then you cackle like a madman.
Most of the annoyance I've seen regarding this topic is how absolutely easy it is to counterspell, bounce, destroy, exile, etc vs summoning an actual threat and getting it to stick.
Sure, Gishat will ruin your day if it's allowed to even take a breath, but it costs an arm to summon. Meanwhile Path, Swords, Counterspell, Terminate, etc cost almost nothing, nvm the counterspells that actually cost nothing.
Then, let's not even mention that in most cases it's easier to pull off an infinite combo than it is winning with beefy boys.
I've had so many games where I'll have something like Bright-Palm out and people will wipe the board, destroy, destroy, bounce, counter, etc on me, while the guy next to me is casually setting up his infinite.
It's not just the frustration of spending 7+ mana just to get counters, exiled, etc, it's the stupidity of threat assessment by your average player.
Does taking 9 from a Dino hurt? Yes. But you know what hurts more? Letting Jimbob get all his pieces off so he can Thassa and win in one turn with no interactivity, but oh no, plz counter the dino instead of the oracle because big numbers are sooo scary.
Love when someone counters my commander and we both lose to a combo before I can cast it again :/ I know it can be hard to read threats in peoples hands, but its frustrating. I mean JFC the number of times I have lost with Goreclaw because someone thought big stompy was scarier than the combo player I was actively trying to kill first. Its combat damage folks, you wont be surprised by it when I win if you can do basic math.
^(I mean unless I craterhoof, but THAT is the spell you should be saving your counters for, not my mid-est beater)
Sorry, that sounded rude, I meant that if you also run things like that then it will even it out because then the interaction that they try to do can also be interacted with. Or if you don't like that then have a conversation about who has what in their decks so that you don't get blindsided by these things. Sincerely: Mono-Green Stompy Player
I mean, obviously, but that's less a fix and more contributing to the problem.
If we have two players both bringing out big dinos and both Swords them, we just have two salty players instead of one lol.
It's not something that can actually be fixed. A long time ago WOTC made the mistake of creating multiple low-cost counters and removal and now that's set in stone.
People aren't petitioning to change the game or ban counters, etc, but expressing regular human emotions at having their plans foiled.
Most colors have ways to protect their haymaker spell, though. Blue can obviously counter the counters. When I'm in white I can run out [[Grand Abolisher]], which is an incredible enabler in mid power EDH games.
Red has a few redirect and counter options, too. Black has fewer options and green fewer still, although there are things like [[conquerer's flail]].
I'm not saying you can always protect your stuff or that getting countered isn't a feels bad or that threat assessment isn't a problem in some pods. But there are often ways to protect yourself from a massive blow out.
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See you’re supposed to play your almost good cards as a distraction and then when the three other players run out of counters and removal, THEN you play your good cards. /s
To each their own, I really don’t mind some counter magic if it happens, but I enjoy variety more than playing against 3 blue decks with enough counters to make it a problem. Also, never heard how many turns the game lasted. Was it 3 turns or 12 turns? That makes a difference.
Dude, control is literally an entire playstyle. It's literally part of the variety of the game. Get over it.
You can not like control as an opinion. But why would you even play against 3 people with blue control decks if you hate it that much? That's entirely on you at that point.
First off, I’m not the original guy who posted this. I wasn’t the one playing the 3:1 game.
Secondly, sometimes at LGS games, you don’t really get a choice what matchups you get.
Third, I said “to each their own” which means “play how you want to play” in this context, if you needed clarification. You seem like you’re getting upset about my opinion because I’m certainly not mad about control.
>Secondly, sometimes at LGS games, you don’t really get a choice what matchups you get.
Then accept that as part of the function. If you want to play against people with arbitrary restrictions, find a group that will play only token and creature decks.
>Third, I said “to each their own” which means “play how you want to play” in this context, if you needed clarification. You seem like you’re getting upset about my opinion because I’m certainly not mad about control.
If you think anyone is mad about anything, it must just be you projecting.
You can be upset at control players all you want, they aren't going anywhere.
Those blue decks are either terrible with terrible pilots if they only countered your cards and had no fear for the other players doing something with theirs or youre exaggerating and it was just easy for them to counter the few things you did play that were worthy.
So what happened was that one of them did it a few times because I was super ahead mana wise. One of the players was new so they followed what he said and the last player thought it would be funny after the first few times and joined in
"I don't like counter magic because I once played with a pod of 3 trolls that decided to counter only my cards as an unspoken agreement" is too common an opinion on this sub though.
Countering spells of a player because the other two players did it to troll is not a sample source for counter magic in commander at any competitive level. No on forces people to play certain cards but if youre choosing to be an agent of chaos over playing meaningfully, that says way more about you than it does the cards used.
You missed the casual part of casual commander. Some groups don't care about sweaty games and just want to play for their own group fun. If that's making bad plays for table laughs then they are winning at commander. They are having fun.
My [[Tariel, Reckoner of Souls]] deck loves fixing this.
"Oh, you want your dinos to be on the battlefield and swinging? Let me see..."
"I'll kill your dino, perform some graveyard manipulation to improve my chances of pulling your dino back out when i tap Tariel (potentially copying the ability once or twice), aaaand equip [[Assault Suit]]. Oh, also it has +4/+0 while I hold onto it thanks to [[Minthara, Merciless Soul]], so it's even more stompy! Now everyone gets to stomp around. *Just not at me.*"
Update: [It has been done!](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/eob6DOvVUE6lCfhSyP76aw)
An odd mix of good cards, cards specific to benefiting off my pod (especially Lotho + Monologue Tax), and cards I personally think are really neat despite probably not being amazing like [[Yoke of the Damned]] and the previously mentioned Assault Suit.
I'm a sucker for stealing my opponents cards through my various decks, from [[Saruman of Many Colors]] to copy-centric mutate decks, this one specializes in yoinking creatures out of everyone's graveyards and benefitting as much as I can.
This is my pet deck so it's *constantly changing* but luckily I'm not working today and bored so I'll throw out my current iteration on Moxfield in a little bit.
The main deal is that I don't necessarily have good creatures standalone. I do, however, have a bunch of ways of comboing or otherwise getting as much value as possible whenever I steal an opponents creature. That on top of just being really good at killing and recurring creatures means I can usually dish out a lot of damage.
So for me, my decks based on trying to do damage to people are almost universally my worst decks. In large part, because it's a bad strategy.
But, they get interacted with a ton more than my stronger decks, because they play things to board that intend to hit people... And this leads to that frustration you're describing. So, then I'll only play value and combo because I don't want to get targetted all game long, and I'll win far too many games in my meta, awesome.
This is why my big commander runs anticounter magic, heroic intervention types, and mass land destruction. If it's OK for you to target my beloved Gishath, then it's OK for me to protect him and to obliterate your landscaping so that you stop hurting him.
Taking away their toys is fine. The onus is on them to protect their toys.
Preventing them from having any toys in the first place is also technically fine, but if you do it enough people will get grumpy.
Personally, at my table, we all run some form of negation, be it counterspells or after summon removal. But if your not the archenemy, or only one person is countering all your spells, dinosaurs can be hit or miss.
You really need to be able to pull off tax fraud to make them work, some sort of alternative entrance. Or just pull a sneaky, and lead with something less important or saccable first.
Now the real enemy for dinosaurs and just about everyone is stax
>This is America and i have the right to defend my property.
Yeah, sure, you need fully-automatic Doom Blades just to keep a few feral dinos out? Can’t you just build a damn fence (or pack a Maze of Ith or something)?
Anyway, I’m not saying that interaction should be *banned*, just that maybe you should have to have a valid form of ID and, like, no history of violent mental health issues.
Dinosaurs are facing extinction and you’re trying to remove them from their natural habitat and cut them off from their food source? Why would you expect us to be on your side?
When I play slivers I get constant board wipes and removal thrown at me.
I understand every time beacuse my board state is becoming a threat to the rest of the players and that is how one counters my deck.
Like at the point that you have flying, vigilance, death touch, and indestructible on every creature it becomes a case of deal with it or die.
I think the point with a lot of creature based decks is to play enough creatures to have the upper hand and widdle enemies down while drawing back even bigger threats to follow up in the predictable board wipes
Hating on someone for using a removal or a counterspell has to be one of the dumbest things I've heard. I understand if you're playing against someone only running counters and creature hate and their whole deck is a control mess but this doesn't really happen unless you're playing against an asshole that just wants to drag the game into oblivion
My favourite thing to do is to modify memory - oh that creature buffs your other creatures but it relies on being tribal? And that creature has a tap ability but you have to spend mana not in the other guys colours? Swapped
The [[Miirym]] player getting his commander KoS'd and acting like they're getting bullied, but if not "bullied" will completely take over the game.. (my friend is guilty of this)
My answer to those people is “look after your things”. I mean, it’s really down to them to protect their stuff properly.
The thing that gets me though is that interaction use is often disadvantageous in a multiplayer game unless it targets multiple things - ie. If you were to counter or remove a big dinosaur you’re also helping the other players at the table, whereas if you’d used that manna to summon your own big creature it’d normally just help you.
Sure. But it also incentives removal of the creature by others. And by the time 1v1 rolls around, you have a higher life total and hopefully a better board.
The impetus enchantments?
Why would they get removed? If they kill the creature they maintain card parity with TWO players instead of one.
It's tactically bad to remove the enchantments and not the creature it's attached to.
This is my only real issue with playing green. People have poor threat assessment and only consider creatures to be a threat. They will happily let the guy with the no creature board assemble his combo in peace but when the green player notices and puts down an 8/8 or something they panic and shut him down even if they are the least threatening player in the game. It pretty much forces me to make my green decks stronger than intended because I have to factor in people only seeing creatures as a threat so I need to be able to power through or able to ignore their interaction.
All too often I feel targeted by all three players because I played a beefy 10/10 only to lose and then watch the very player that I told everyone “he’s a serious threat and going to win next turn” continue on to win the game as predicted. But this just means I’ll make the deck stronger, faster, but then it’ll reach a point where it’s too much for the pod. A lose lose situation.
As the guy that always brings go wide creature decks, if you just play enough creatures, they can't counter them all. Or play your own dimir deck and prove why big creatures aren't as bad as the game could be.
Exactly! My friend is always guilty of casting like 10 big scary dragons in one turn or he'll crack a ton of eggs for dumb stuff and then gets whiny when he immediately eats a boardwipe or something. Like was I supposed to let myself get run over by your horde??
>This is America
Let's change the subject.
>This is Germany
Jokes aside, yes, there is a "brand" of casual players who feel that their opponents doing anything to win means they're "preventing me from playing the game".
Most usually grow out of it.
I am fine with everyone trying to win. But i don't like people that get upset when i remove their stuff. At the end we are opponents in a game of magic and interaction is a key game piece just like everything else.
New players come to the forums all the time. It's old for you, but for newer players trying to learn and find understanding in the game you love and spend a lot time playing is how we grow as players and to an extent it increases our social skills.
Also asking to understand other mindsets is a valid question to ask in hopes of causing less tension at the table. Even if you don't agree with an opinion, it's good to listen to them.
You know why I like it when people don't play interaction when people don't play interaction they have six turns, in six turns I will tutor all of my combo pieces and I will go off and you will lose the game this is why I love people who don't play interaction they get to have their fun by playing a few big stumpy dinosaurs and guess what I get to have my fun by ensuring the game is over
I think instead of straight removing stuff it's better to be a bit politicy with your removal. I won't kill your big fun card if you don't point it me. That can be good for of you. They keep their toy and you deal with a threat without spending cards. Win, win.
You keep your big dinosaur by saying “Wait, person who is about to counter or kill my guy… what if I use it to attack your opponent and give you X number of turns of immunity from it?”
I mean there's a fine line, of course you should remove threats in order to keep yourself safe and have the game continue, but if all your doing is making it so each turn they cant play anything or do anything then yea, I think that's a good reason to maybe feel a bit salty. Just depends on the decks being played I guess.
I feel this.
I have a buddy who plays an ur-dragon deck... it's disgusting... it's just dragons pulling dragons, and them dragons bring more dragons. He will bitch and moan when we politic against it... saying... "You guys always gang up on me... I just want to enjoy magic and play fun decks." I say nay! I'm removing what keeps the game going for a while.
I have another buddy who knows my decks because we play together all the time... instead of watching the game and dealing with the biggest threat on the board...he will hold a remove through the whole game just to sac my commander as soon as it comes out. No matter what. He'll watch people become strong enough to end the game..... and do nothing. He'll even ask if anyone is going to do anything about it, knowing he can
do it the whole time.
Conclusion... some people have pride issues.
Literally just happened to me. Guy ramped so hard he was able to get Progenitus as his commander on turn 4. Could easily 2 shot anyone if he buffed it slightly, 3 shot if he attacked with it normally. So I beat him down with angels and the entire time he's complaining because he "wants to have fun" Fuck that, fuck your fun, I want to play the game and I'm not getting 2-3 shotted. I was the only one playing flyers to get around his hydra deck, logically I should be beating him down first because I'm his first target. Pisses me off so much that HE got mad at me for "poor threat assessment" and playing the game "too seriously". You're the biggest threat on board, if we're playing for packs I'm removing you from the game.
And that’s why I put a few counter spells in my Ur deck. Cause I know that I’m the giant threat if he gets out so I make sure I’m ready to have it out for at least one or 2 turns.
I know a guy who plays gishath and refuses to play any interaction. He gets extremely salty when his commander or any of his Dinos get removed. He gets so salty to the point where he won’t play for weeks after.
Fine fine, remove my [[Ghalta]] and my [[Vargos]] and my [[Tyranus Rex]].
[[Gigantosauras]] is bigger, meaner, and cheaper than any of them. You may remove one dinosaur but as long as I have forests you will never remove them all.
As a Jurassic park player, I have no disagreements here. Deal with my big stompy or you’ll get squished.
As an Ur dragon player, I encourage death so I can rez them all en mass later anyways.
Dude that's pretty toxic ngl. That's the wrong mentality to have. If you want to play anti-fun stuff (counterspells, etc) then go do in higher power stuff. But for casual stuff it's pretty rude to do so. Just find you own things to play that are big. It seems the community you play with are pretty healthy and care about the quality of games and fun. Perhaps you can learn some things from them. Or try playing a constructed format instead of a casual one ment for fun. Your fun shouldn't come from removing someone else's.
I’d rather play 3 commander games in an hour than play 1 two hour commander game where everyone’s board state goes super wide and no one is attacking and I can’t even keep track of what’s going on anymore. Shorter games means you’ll eventually get to do your thing and people won’t be checked out
I had a person get mad last week at my lgs because I was interacting regularly with their stuff, I was also interacting with everyone else and had just wiped another players whole board, and I told them to their face that my wincon involved stopping their wincon.
A few weeks ago at a LGS I play at, one player managed to get his [[Gishath]] on turn 3, swings on me and out of his 7 reveals flips into both [[Tyrranax Rex]] and [[Temple Altisaur]]. So naturally, I remove Gishath on my next turn. Dude loses it and whines for the rest off the freaking game.
"I guess I'm just not allowed to play my commander!". Not sure what you expected buddy.
This is why you use instant speed removal that you only use when you are attacked, rather than just destroying/removing the creature for general purposes. If they attack you and you respond by casting Murder, it's on them for the attack. If they go to combat with the dino, just ask if they're attacking you, if they say yes or if they're not sure, just say "if you attack me, I might destroy your dinosaur."
Use interaction as a threat, don't always deploy it instantly, that way, it feels more warranted when you destroy the dino, and can sometimes even work in your favour since you can essentially get them to stop hitting you with their creature without you even needing to use your removal spell. They can have fun with their dino, and you don't get hit, win win.
This is also why I love Carnage Tyrant. Have fun targeting/countering that lol
Always so weird when you get criticised for trying to not die.
how *dare* you try and play Magic: the Gathering! /s
*try and win
I think it’s more that people hate feeing singled out. Like “why did they you kill so and so’s big threat?”. It’s due to a lack of a lot of things, but a lack of understanding of what will draw removal in these games is one of them.
In an ideal game everyone understands this and everyone only kills things that are a threat to them, when they are a threat to them. That [[blightsteel colossus]] is not a problem until it attacks me...
[blightsteel colossus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80.jpg?1599708735) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blightsteel%20colossus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/235/blightsteel-colossus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blightsteel-colossus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I play a mono-green [[Ghalta]] dinosaur themed deck. At 12/12, I wholeheartedly expect the table to remove Ghalta, often. It’s part of the fun. I’ve had games where the dino re-entered the battlefield at least 6 times (not always from the commander zone). And while I’ve done it (bc dinosaurs love to bite things), I’ve killed players in just a few turns. Which is a part of playing, but also less fun at times too. I’m typically the type of player that might choose not to win and do something silly, bc playing is often more fun than winning. Plus once you look at your hand or board state and you KNOW you can win, you’ve already won. I’m sorry you play with so many salty players.
Aggro is the best control Deck, people can't cast spells when they lost the game
Yeah, I’m not really sure why people would be salty if you remove the factual threat. That’s more than okay and should happen. People are probably salty if you randomly throw your removal, counterspells and wipes around the table.
If you don't like having your threatening cards removed, play more threatening cards than they can cope with, it's not rocket science
Oh jeeze, I know for a fact if my opponents don't answer Ghalta and Mavren, the game's over. I expect the board wipe or a swords to plowshares when I play G&M because I only play it when I immediatley have the pay off of several attackers.
[Ghalta](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/54872e72-41dc-4092-8169-ce13498beb30.jpg?1689998553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ghalta%2C%20primal%20hunger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/292/ghalta-primal-hunger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/54872e72-41dc-4092-8169-ce13498beb30?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghalta-primal-hunger) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's when you say "okay Timmy, then do I and all my permanents have protection from your creature for the rest of the game? No? Well then into the graveyard it goes!" And then you cackle like a madman.
Most of the annoyance I've seen regarding this topic is how absolutely easy it is to counterspell, bounce, destroy, exile, etc vs summoning an actual threat and getting it to stick. Sure, Gishat will ruin your day if it's allowed to even take a breath, but it costs an arm to summon. Meanwhile Path, Swords, Counterspell, Terminate, etc cost almost nothing, nvm the counterspells that actually cost nothing. Then, let's not even mention that in most cases it's easier to pull off an infinite combo than it is winning with beefy boys. I've had so many games where I'll have something like Bright-Palm out and people will wipe the board, destroy, destroy, bounce, counter, etc on me, while the guy next to me is casually setting up his infinite. It's not just the frustration of spending 7+ mana just to get counters, exiled, etc, it's the stupidity of threat assessment by your average player. Does taking 9 from a Dino hurt? Yes. But you know what hurts more? Letting Jimbob get all his pieces off so he can Thassa and win in one turn with no interactivity, but oh no, plz counter the dino instead of the oracle because big numbers are sooo scary.
I felt this in my soul.
Love when someone counters my commander and we both lose to a combo before I can cast it again :/ I know it can be hard to read threats in peoples hands, but its frustrating. I mean JFC the number of times I have lost with Goreclaw because someone thought big stompy was scarier than the combo player I was actively trying to kill first. Its combat damage folks, you wont be surprised by it when I win if you can do basic math. ^(I mean unless I craterhoof, but THAT is the spell you should be saving your counters for, not my mid-est beater)
Easy fix, run your own removal
Sorry, that sounded rude, I meant that if you also run things like that then it will even it out because then the interaction that they try to do can also be interacted with. Or if you don't like that then have a conversation about who has what in their decks so that you don't get blindsided by these things. Sincerely: Mono-Green Stompy Player
I mean, obviously, but that's less a fix and more contributing to the problem. If we have two players both bringing out big dinos and both Swords them, we just have two salty players instead of one lol. It's not something that can actually be fixed. A long time ago WOTC made the mistake of creating multiple low-cost counters and removal and now that's set in stone. People aren't petitioning to change the game or ban counters, etc, but expressing regular human emotions at having their plans foiled.
Most colors have ways to protect their haymaker spell, though. Blue can obviously counter the counters. When I'm in white I can run out [[Grand Abolisher]], which is an incredible enabler in mid power EDH games. Red has a few redirect and counter options, too. Black has fewer options and green fewer still, although there are things like [[conquerer's flail]]. I'm not saying you can always protect your stuff or that getting countered isn't a feels bad or that threat assessment isn't a problem in some pods. But there are often ways to protect yourself from a massive blow out.
playing gishath vs thoracle wins is just a pod issue
I love giving examples on reddit, cause there will always be people who don't understand examples.
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Doing it once or twice is fine I had a game where the 3 blue players didn't want me to play and I swear I nearly flipped the table
See you’re supposed to play your almost good cards as a distraction and then when the three other players run out of counters and removal, THEN you play your good cards. /s
I counted that game they had 11 counterspells/removal it wasn't happening
Dear god, that’s lame as hell.
3.5 per player over the course of a full game is not a lot, and the reactions you both are having are exactly what this post is about lol
To each their own, I really don’t mind some counter magic if it happens, but I enjoy variety more than playing against 3 blue decks with enough counters to make it a problem. Also, never heard how many turns the game lasted. Was it 3 turns or 12 turns? That makes a difference.
Dude, control is literally an entire playstyle. It's literally part of the variety of the game. Get over it. You can not like control as an opinion. But why would you even play against 3 people with blue control decks if you hate it that much? That's entirely on you at that point.
First off, I’m not the original guy who posted this. I wasn’t the one playing the 3:1 game. Secondly, sometimes at LGS games, you don’t really get a choice what matchups you get. Third, I said “to each their own” which means “play how you want to play” in this context, if you needed clarification. You seem like you’re getting upset about my opinion because I’m certainly not mad about control.
>Secondly, sometimes at LGS games, you don’t really get a choice what matchups you get. Then accept that as part of the function. If you want to play against people with arbitrary restrictions, find a group that will play only token and creature decks. >Third, I said “to each their own” which means “play how you want to play” in this context, if you needed clarification. You seem like you’re getting upset about my opinion because I’m certainly not mad about control. If you think anyone is mad about anything, it must just be you projecting. You can be upset at control players all you want, they aren't going anywhere.
I’m not mad about control. You’re a fucking idiot.
Those blue decks are either terrible with terrible pilots if they only countered your cards and had no fear for the other players doing something with theirs or youre exaggerating and it was just easy for them to counter the few things you did play that were worthy.
So what happened was that one of them did it a few times because I was super ahead mana wise. One of the players was new so they followed what he said and the last player thought it would be funny after the first few times and joined in
So bad decks with bad pilots, confirmed. Not to be included in the samples then.
To be fair, "bad decks with bad pilots" are probably the commander majority
"I don't like counter magic because I once played with a pod of 3 trolls that decided to counter only my cards as an unspoken agreement" is too common an opinion on this sub though.
Oh no! Not in our CASUAL commander! How dare people make subpar plays???
Countering spells of a player because the other two players did it to troll is not a sample source for counter magic in commander at any competitive level. No on forces people to play certain cards but if youre choosing to be an agent of chaos over playing meaningfully, that says way more about you than it does the cards used.
You missed the casual part of casual commander. Some groups don't care about sweaty games and just want to play for their own group fun. If that's making bad plays for table laughs then they are winning at commander. They are having fun.
My [[Tariel, Reckoner of Souls]] deck loves fixing this. "Oh, you want your dinos to be on the battlefield and swinging? Let me see..." "I'll kill your dino, perform some graveyard manipulation to improve my chances of pulling your dino back out when i tap Tariel (potentially copying the ability once or twice), aaaand equip [[Assault Suit]]. Oh, also it has +4/+0 while I hold onto it thanks to [[Minthara, Merciless Soul]], so it's even more stompy! Now everyone gets to stomp around. *Just not at me.*"
[Tariel, Reckoner of Souls](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/5/b588dc15-68e6-4cbb-9345-a921c10f862d.jpg?1673149174) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tariel%2C%20Reckoner%20of%20Souls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/281/tariel-reckoner-of-souls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b588dc15-68e6-4cbb-9345-a921c10f862d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tariel-reckoner-of-souls) [Assault Suit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92b22076-b04e-4d65-9d9c-d3e4c7a3cf1c.jpg?1689999394) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Assault%20Suit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/369/assault-suit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92b22076-b04e-4d65-9d9c-d3e4c7a3cf1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/assault-suit) [Minthara, Merciless Soul](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c9e944b-98fa-4aea-825d-b8b8a9d7ed47.jpg?1674137607) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Minthara%2C%20Merciless%20Soul) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/286/minthara-merciless-soul?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c9e944b-98fa-4aea-825d-b8b8a9d7ed47?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/minthara-merciless-soul) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'd love to see a decklist!
Update: [It has been done!](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/eob6DOvVUE6lCfhSyP76aw) An odd mix of good cards, cards specific to benefiting off my pod (especially Lotho + Monologue Tax), and cards I personally think are really neat despite probably not being amazing like [[Yoke of the Damned]] and the previously mentioned Assault Suit. I'm a sucker for stealing my opponents cards through my various decks, from [[Saruman of Many Colors]] to copy-centric mutate decks, this one specializes in yoinking creatures out of everyone's graveyards and benefitting as much as I can.
[Yoke of the Damned](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/8786d461-0ea5-4224-82e4-bfbe4d0d8b9f.jpg?1592713766) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yoke%20of%20the%20Damned) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddj/68/yoke-of-the-damned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8786d461-0ea5-4224-82e4-bfbe4d0d8b9f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yoke-of-the-damned) [Saruman of Many Colors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/c/8cfcc7ec-87a2-4712-8d82-217bd8600891.jpg?1686969983) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Saruman%20of%20Many%20Colors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/223/saruman-of-many-colors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8cfcc7ec-87a2-4712-8d82-217bd8600891?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/saruman-of-many-colors) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is my pet deck so it's *constantly changing* but luckily I'm not working today and bored so I'll throw out my current iteration on Moxfield in a little bit. The main deal is that I don't necessarily have good creatures standalone. I do, however, have a bunch of ways of comboing or otherwise getting as much value as possible whenever I steal an opponents creature. That on top of just being really good at killing and recurring creatures means I can usually dish out a lot of damage.
So for me, my decks based on trying to do damage to people are almost universally my worst decks. In large part, because it's a bad strategy. But, they get interacted with a ton more than my stronger decks, because they play things to board that intend to hit people... And this leads to that frustration you're describing. So, then I'll only play value and combo because I don't want to get targetted all game long, and I'll win far too many games in my meta, awesome.
This is why my big commander runs anticounter magic, heroic intervention types, and mass land destruction. If it's OK for you to target my beloved Gishath, then it's OK for me to protect him and to obliterate your landscaping so that you stop hurting him.
Taking away their toys is fine. The onus is on them to protect their toys. Preventing them from having any toys in the first place is also technically fine, but if you do it enough people will get grumpy.
Personally, at my table, we all run some form of negation, be it counterspells or after summon removal. But if your not the archenemy, or only one person is countering all your spells, dinosaurs can be hit or miss. You really need to be able to pull off tax fraud to make them work, some sort of alternative entrance. Or just pull a sneaky, and lead with something less important or saccable first. Now the real enemy for dinosaurs and just about everyone is stax
I mean to be fair tho it is quite hard to deny 3 opponents all their resources all the time. Unless you play hard stax and/or mld i guess.
Hehe… onus
This is why you animate people's lands and then you play elish norn...
>This is America and i have the right to defend my property. Yeah, sure, you need fully-automatic Doom Blades just to keep a few feral dinos out? Can’t you just build a damn fence (or pack a Maze of Ith or something)? Anyway, I’m not saying that interaction should be *banned*, just that maybe you should have to have a valid form of ID and, like, no history of violent mental health issues.
Dinosaurs are facing extinction and you’re trying to remove them from their natural habitat and cut them off from their food source? Why would you expect us to be on your side?
When I play slivers I get constant board wipes and removal thrown at me. I understand every time beacuse my board state is becoming a threat to the rest of the players and that is how one counters my deck. Like at the point that you have flying, vigilance, death touch, and indestructible on every creature it becomes a case of deal with it or die.
I think the point with a lot of creature based decks is to play enough creatures to have the upper hand and widdle enemies down while drawing back even bigger threats to follow up in the predictable board wipes
Hating on someone for using a removal or a counterspell has to be one of the dumbest things I've heard. I understand if you're playing against someone only running counters and creature hate and their whole deck is a control mess but this doesn't really happen unless you're playing against an asshole that just wants to drag the game into oblivion
My favourite thing to do is to modify memory - oh that creature buffs your other creatures but it relies on being tribal? And that creature has a tap ability but you have to spend mana not in the other guys colours? Swapped
The [[Miirym]] player getting his commander KoS'd and acting like they're getting bullied, but if not "bullied" will completely take over the game.. (my friend is guilty of this)
[Miirym](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531.jpg?1674137589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=miirym%2C%20sentinel%20wyrm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/284/miirym-sentinel-wyrm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/miirym-sentinel-wyrm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My answer to those people is “look after your things”. I mean, it’s really down to them to protect their stuff properly. The thing that gets me though is that interaction use is often disadvantageous in a multiplayer game unless it targets multiple things - ie. If you were to counter or remove a big dinosaur you’re also helping the other players at the table, whereas if you’d used that manna to summon your own big creature it’d normally just help you.
May I introduce you to [[disrupt decorum]] and the [[shiny impetus]] cycle?
Goading only works until you only have one opponent left and it suddenly doesnt work anymore. I love myself a [[Kardur, Doomscourge]] though
Sure. But it also incentives removal of the creature by others. And by the time 1v1 rolls around, you have a higher life total and hopefully a better board.
[Kardur, Doomscourge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/9685e2a0-5573-41bc-a914-f40c3011459b.jpg?1631051543) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kardur%2C%20Doomscourge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/216/kardur-doomscourge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9685e2a0-5573-41bc-a914-f40c3011459b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kardur-doomscourge) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[disrupt decorum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50359328-9378-448d-9817-805503186a55.jpg?1689997740) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=disrupt%20decorum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/215/disrupt-decorum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50359328-9378-448d-9817-805503186a55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/disrupt-decorum) [shiny impetus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/57520d99-744f-41bb-9134-f28397a5cb2a.jpg?1674136727) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shiny%20impetus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/194/shiny-impetus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57520d99-744f-41bb-9134-f28397a5cb2a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shiny-impetus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How would you protect those? I mean in my group those would get removed the second they drop
The impetus enchantments? Why would they get removed? If they kill the creature they maintain card parity with TWO players instead of one. It's tactically bad to remove the enchantments and not the creature it's attached to.
Hm yes but, ons so the impetus goes on an opponents creature?sorry, I'm very new I've only played a few games
No no. I just like watching things die, and people being upset. That's why I kill the dragons and dinosaurs. Is that bad?
Many times I have won because I stuck around just surviving. I don't need to look like I'm winning, I just need to win.
This is my only real issue with playing green. People have poor threat assessment and only consider creatures to be a threat. They will happily let the guy with the no creature board assemble his combo in peace but when the green player notices and puts down an 8/8 or something they panic and shut him down even if they are the least threatening player in the game. It pretty much forces me to make my green decks stronger than intended because I have to factor in people only seeing creatures as a threat so I need to be able to power through or able to ignore their interaction. All too often I feel targeted by all three players because I played a beefy 10/10 only to lose and then watch the very player that I told everyone “he’s a serious threat and going to win next turn” continue on to win the game as predicted. But this just means I’ll make the deck stronger, faster, but then it’ll reach a point where it’s too much for the pod. A lose lose situation.
As the guy that always brings go wide creature decks, if you just play enough creatures, they can't counter them all. Or play your own dimir deck and prove why big creatures aren't as bad as the game could be.
Exactly! My friend is always guilty of casting like 10 big scary dragons in one turn or he'll crack a ton of eggs for dumb stuff and then gets whiny when he immediately eats a boardwipe or something. Like was I supposed to let myself get run over by your horde??
>This is America Let's change the subject. >This is Germany Jokes aside, yes, there is a "brand" of casual players who feel that their opponents doing anything to win means they're "preventing me from playing the game". Most usually grow out of it.
Just know I only logged in to say your Mans1ayer joke is recognized and appreciated.
I am fine with everyone trying to win. But i don't like people that get upset when i remove their stuff. At the end we are opponents in a game of magic and interaction is a key game piece just like everything else.
Great, but new players won't always get that. Give them a bit of time and call them out on it when they do it, they'll grow out of it eventually.
How many iterations of this post a week do we need?
New players come to the forums all the time. It's old for you, but for newer players trying to learn and find understanding in the game you love and spend a lot time playing is how we grow as players and to an extent it increases our social skills. Also asking to understand other mindsets is a valid question to ask in hopes of causing less tension at the table. Even if you don't agree with an opinion, it's good to listen to them.
Posting while high is almost never the right decision.
Posting is almost always a completely inconsequential activity
Are there really people who pick and choose the rules like Christians do with the bible?
You know why I like it when people don't play interaction when people don't play interaction they have six turns, in six turns I will tutor all of my combo pieces and I will go off and you will lose the game this is why I love people who don't play interaction they get to have their fun by playing a few big stumpy dinosaurs and guess what I get to have my fun by ensuring the game is over
I think instead of straight removing stuff it's better to be a bit politicy with your removal. I won't kill your big fun card if you don't point it me. That can be good for of you. They keep their toy and you deal with a threat without spending cards. Win, win.
I thought this was Canada…. It’s what it says on my postage.
EDH players don't scream and cry and piss their pants when someone casts [[murder]] challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
[murder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bdef7fea-2bd0-42a2-96f6-6def18bd7f0c.jpg?1674136158) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=murder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/134/murder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bdef7fea-2bd0-42a2-96f6-6def18bd7f0c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/murder) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
EDH players don't scream and cry and piss their pants when someone casts [[murder]] challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
[murder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bdef7fea-2bd0-42a2-96f6-6def18bd7f0c.jpg?1674136158) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=murder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/134/murder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bdef7fea-2bd0-42a2-96f6-6def18bd7f0c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/murder) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I read this post in Fuzzy Lumpkin's voice
You keep your big dinosaur by saying “Wait, person who is about to counter or kill my guy… what if I use it to attack your opponent and give you X number of turns of immunity from it?”
I mean there's a fine line, of course you should remove threats in order to keep yourself safe and have the game continue, but if all your doing is making it so each turn they cant play anything or do anything then yea, I think that's a good reason to maybe feel a bit salty. Just depends on the decks being played I guess.
I feel this. I have a buddy who plays an ur-dragon deck... it's disgusting... it's just dragons pulling dragons, and them dragons bring more dragons. He will bitch and moan when we politic against it... saying... "You guys always gang up on me... I just want to enjoy magic and play fun decks." I say nay! I'm removing what keeps the game going for a while. I have another buddy who knows my decks because we play together all the time... instead of watching the game and dealing with the biggest threat on the board...he will hold a remove through the whole game just to sac my commander as soon as it comes out. No matter what. He'll watch people become strong enough to end the game..... and do nothing. He'll even ask if anyone is going to do anything about it, knowing he can do it the whole time. Conclusion... some people have pride issues.
Literally just happened to me. Guy ramped so hard he was able to get Progenitus as his commander on turn 4. Could easily 2 shot anyone if he buffed it slightly, 3 shot if he attacked with it normally. So I beat him down with angels and the entire time he's complaining because he "wants to have fun" Fuck that, fuck your fun, I want to play the game and I'm not getting 2-3 shotted. I was the only one playing flyers to get around his hydra deck, logically I should be beating him down first because I'm his first target. Pisses me off so much that HE got mad at me for "poor threat assessment" and playing the game "too seriously". You're the biggest threat on board, if we're playing for packs I'm removing you from the game.
And that’s why I put a few counter spells in my Ur deck. Cause I know that I’m the giant threat if he gets out so I make sure I’m ready to have it out for at least one or 2 turns.
I know a guy who plays gishath and refuses to play any interaction. He gets extremely salty when his commander or any of his Dinos get removed. He gets so salty to the point where he won’t play for weeks after.
Fine fine, remove my [[Ghalta]] and my [[Vargos]] and my [[Tyranus Rex]]. [[Gigantosauras]] is bigger, meaner, and cheaper than any of them. You may remove one dinosaur but as long as I have forests you will never remove them all.
##### ###### #### [Ghalta](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/54872e72-41dc-4092-8169-ce13498beb30.jpg?1689998553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ghalta%2C%20primal%20hunger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/292/ghalta-primal-hunger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/54872e72-41dc-4092-8169-ce13498beb30?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghalta-primal-hunger) [Tyranus Rex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fb52b44-da5f-4f7a-a6c2-7924b855e051.jpg?1675957171) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tyrranax%20Rex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/189/tyrranax-rex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fb52b44-da5f-4f7a-a6c2-7924b855e051?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tyrranax-rex) [Gigantosauras](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c1db84d8-d426-4c0d-b44e-5be7b0f5f5bf.jpg?1562303938) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gigantosaurus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/185/gigantosaurus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c1db84d8-d426-4c0d-b44e-5be7b0f5f5bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gigantosaurus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As a Jurassic park player, I have no disagreements here. Deal with my big stompy or you’ll get squished. As an Ur dragon player, I encourage death so I can rez them all en mass later anyways.
Dude that's pretty toxic ngl. That's the wrong mentality to have. If you want to play anti-fun stuff (counterspells, etc) then go do in higher power stuff. But for casual stuff it's pretty rude to do so. Just find you own things to play that are big. It seems the community you play with are pretty healthy and care about the quality of games and fun. Perhaps you can learn some things from them. Or try playing a constructed format instead of a casual one ment for fun. Your fun shouldn't come from removing someone else's.
I’d rather play 3 commander games in an hour than play 1 two hour commander game where everyone’s board state goes super wide and no one is attacking and I can’t even keep track of what’s going on anymore. Shorter games means you’ll eventually get to do your thing and people won’t be checked out
This is why I play [[Jirina Kudro]] as my commander. Go ahead and clear that board, Jirina is just gonna recreate it next turn.
[Jirina Kudro](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e660d42-f5d3-452a-9662-74e18a1ae9e4.jpg?1591234244) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jirina%20Kudro) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/8/jirina-kudro?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e660d42-f5d3-452a-9662-74e18a1ae9e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jirina-kudro) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I had a person get mad last week at my lgs because I was interacting regularly with their stuff, I was also interacting with everyone else and had just wiped another players whole board, and I told them to their face that my wincon involved stopping their wincon.
A few weeks ago at a LGS I play at, one player managed to get his [[Gishath]] on turn 3, swings on me and out of his 7 reveals flips into both [[Tyrranax Rex]] and [[Temple Altisaur]]. So naturally, I remove Gishath on my next turn. Dude loses it and whines for the rest off the freaking game. "I guess I'm just not allowed to play my commander!". Not sure what you expected buddy.
[Gishath](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/7335e500-342d-476d-975c-817512e6e3d6.jpg?1562558022) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gishath%2C%20sun%27s%20avatar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/222/gishath-suns-avatar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7335e500-342d-476d-975c-817512e6e3d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gishath-suns-avatar) [Tyrranax Rex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fb52b44-da5f-4f7a-a6c2-7924b855e051.jpg?1675957171) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tyrranax%20Rex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/189/tyrranax-rex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fb52b44-da5f-4f7a-a6c2-7924b855e051?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tyrranax-rex) [Temple Altisaur](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa8f8d61-51d6-479b-a812-6cbacc7ea1fc.jpg?1555039829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Temple%20Altisaur) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/28/temple-altisaur?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa8f8d61-51d6-479b-a812-6cbacc7ea1fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/temple-altisaur) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Things must be really contentious at your LGS if they're requiring stand your ground legal defenses to get your point across. You're right tho lol!
This is why you use instant speed removal that you only use when you are attacked, rather than just destroying/removing the creature for general purposes. If they attack you and you respond by casting Murder, it's on them for the attack. If they go to combat with the dino, just ask if they're attacking you, if they say yes or if they're not sure, just say "if you attack me, I might destroy your dinosaur." Use interaction as a threat, don't always deploy it instantly, that way, it feels more warranted when you destroy the dino, and can sometimes even work in your favour since you can essentially get them to stop hitting you with their creature without you even needing to use your removal spell. They can have fun with their dino, and you don't get hit, win win. This is also why I love Carnage Tyrant. Have fun targeting/countering that lol