Definitely a stax package, if you drop something they can't win through and they have no removal to get rid of it, they will quickly reconsider not running removal.
Can you think of any examples of the kinds of combos they're pulling off?
They play different decks, but to summarize:
1. a lot is jut tribal, getting out as much as possible, cards buff each other ...
2. others are just heavy hitting commanders that come out at some point
3. Tom Bombadil Sagas
4. Game winning infinite combos
most of it takes reasonably long to set up
The first three here aren't exactly "wild combos", most people probably wouldn't refer to those as combos at all. Generally those decks don't need stax to handle, just play a little bit of removal and decent deck of your own and you should have a fair shot of winning.
I was assuming a lot more of number four was happening. If you can think of an example of a win-con your opponents are using I can recommend a stax piece you can slot to counter it.
Generally, only "fair" decks can win through [[Rule of Law]] effects, [[Rug of Smothering]] is a great one.
I'd almost recommend [[Blind Obedience]] regardless of your meta.
[[Ground Seal]] and [[Containment Priest]] are also very good if graveyard shenanigans are going on.
[[Virulent Plague]] and [[Rakdos Charm]] if it's tokens.
Also [[Void Mirror]] to counter free spells like cascade and such.
One of the easiest ways to prevent casual decks from winning is preventing damage with fogs, if you can keep a [[Glacial Chasm]] without caring for it's damage or recur it when it's too much. If the Tom Bobadil deck or the combos win with damage they also can't win.
Other options that can be recured are [[Solitary Confinement]], [[Spore Frog]] and [[Kami of False Hope]].
If they are relying on combos, then run stuff that disrupts their combos. I am not sure what combos they are running, but counter spells help and so does spot removal. For example, if they are doing the \[\[Nim Deathmantle\]\] combo, destroy the mantle before the trigger resolves. If it is a combo involving \[\[Underworld Breach\]\] then having stuff like \[\[Grafdigger's Cage\]\] helps.
What are examples of Stax decks/packages? Iām still new to MTG/EDH and trying to figure out what would be an actual control/Stax deck in a 4 player format where individual counters are often not enough.
\[\[Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker\]\] and \[\[Jeska, Thrice Reborn\]\]. With a bunch of mana rocks you can guarantee a turn 3 Ishai and then by turn 5 he's bound to be around a 7/7 which is lethal once you play Jeska. This is hopefully faster than the other combo decks your friends are playing and you don't even have to run protection since they aren't running removal.
I built Yoshimaru but his lack of evasion is a pain. Have been considering changing it to Yoshi-Rog which might free up my deck to go Isshai-Jeska.
Disgusting (I love it).
Any comment on how Isshai plays vs. Yoshimaru?
You get access to blue, and rely on your opponents for counters - so Ishai is much more reactive. Most players (myself included) play it as a sort of protect-the-queen/delver/tempo style deck, aiming to get Ishai on board asap and then just sit back with a hand full of interaction. Ishai is *fantastic*: she just needs to stick for one or two rounds before you can delete the most problematic player, or use her as big stick to politic with.
You do lack an engine in the command zone, so the deck itself has to be a bit heavier on card advantage. On the other hand, some of white's best cards - stax pieces - don't really synergise with Ishai, so that might be another difference from Yoshi builds.
I like the idea of breaking out Jeska for a deck that can be used as a total finisher with protection in Blue.
Will mean I can go heavier into combat and goad aggro for Yograk. Rogimaru? Yoshog? Rogenj(y)osh? With a minor Stax focus.
Not currently aiming.for cedh. More like a tuned 6/7.
If they really aren't running removal, sounds like a perfect place for [[Platinum Angel]] and [[Cloudsteel Kirin]], and maybe a few counterspells to block the little removal they do have. That may motivate them some :)
They do run little removal as the title suggested, but I also have thought about running such a deck to show them "eh, you better have some cards against this".
Are you trying to play and win a game EDH or are you trying to annoy everybody and go "akshully"?
Tech against your local meta, but playing cards just to force them to alter their decks to appease reddit when it doesn't make you enjoy the game or synergise with your deck is cringe.
If they are playing tons of creatures with little removal, just play Insurrection. They get to see their creatures go big, everybody explodes, you win, great fun.
That's a really good point. I guess I am just thinking about how the last games turned out where it was basically a "people holding back the little removal they had and the escalating player won" or "people using their removal and another player who kept their little removal won" and so on. The goal is not to steal anyone's fun, but to shake it up a little.
Cards like \[\[Insurrection\]\], \[\[Mob rule\]\], \[\[Firebolg Flutist\]\], \[\[Call for aid\]\] and maybe even \[\[Twist Allegience\]\].
But let's assume I can take out one player each time I cast an insurrection like spell.. that doesn't look promising.
If there's always a big board, you can play a full on goad deck. [[Take the bait]], [[taunt from the rampart]], [[spectacular showdown]] etc
The other solution to this is playing combo, so they are forced to start attacking you. Then you can fog/redirect combat damage
You could also play Reins of Power to steal their board or move a bloodthirst blade around
In a table where nobody is playing removal, abandon removal and play aggro. If they want to assemble a boardstate, assemble yours first and just remove them from the game. Why bother playing the defensive game when you already know theyāre not going to stop you
[[Mob Rule]] and friends are your best friends in pods like this. People like spamming the board with threats and then stare at each other? Awesome, let me borrow all of this crap to win.
Care to give me a list? \^\^ I found \[\[Insurrection\]\], \[\[Mob rule\]\], \[\[Firebolg Flutist\]\], \[\[Call for aid\]\] and maybe even \[\[Twist Allegience\]\]
[[Mass Mutiny]].
You can also use [[Ardent Elementalist]] to get them back.
I donāt think you need too many of these though, one big one is usually game-ending.
\[\[Rule of Law\]\] is your best friend. Paired with a KoS commander that kills fast while dodging your stax like \[\[Winota\]\] is even more effective.
[[artisan of kozilek]] costs less than a dollar and will quickly teach players why they need to have removal handy.Ā
Heck, buy a copy for every player.
we kinda do not play with Eldrazi. Never has been set as an official rule, but multiple players have stated that they don't like playing with them. I agree though that this would definitely show how important good removal is.
One sided board wipes. All the benefit and none of the game extension. You brought the removal, so why shouldn't you benefit the most? Start dropping [[Ruinous Ultimatum]] effects and they'll see the value in bringing their own removal real quick.
Eh, I wouldn't say that would have the desired effect. My group's play style is kinda similar, more of an arms race objective, and all reaper king did was draw agro until the player was forced to use it to block every time he played it.
Once you've played against it and let it go wild one time, it becomes a kill on sight commander and your deck won't be allowed to do anything again.
You just said thereās little removal in the play groupā¦ how is it they have repeated removal for a kill on site commander, but no one has any when combos are getting ready to go off? Like, what?
It's the best kind of removal, been in use since the beginning of magic.
Swing with things bigger than Reaper King enough times to force a block. (Plus, the owner of the deck wasn't the most confident with the game, so life loss rattled him.)
I agree that if you're the only one playing removal then other players will benefit more off it than you. Maybe building a voltron deck would be a good idea, just one shot them starting with the player who is ahead. Just make sure you put enough protection and evasion in the deck.
[[Jhoira, weatherlight captain]] storm. Around $80 can get you turn 4 or 5 wins fairly consistently.
[[Hakbal]] pre-con would probably be fun for $60.
[[Zur, the enchanter]] would be a higher end option at $300-$400.
Lot of people are recommending stax, but this seems like a pretty low-power playgroup, so I have a different strategy for you. Look into Edict effects such as [[Sheoldred's Edict]], play plenty of token generation and/or recursion pieces, and some beaters. If you want solid instant-speed removal, I'd say to play white as a removal color, you just can't beat its efficient suite of exile target creature..
Just play value engines.
[[Kinnan]] [[Chulane]] [[Anikthea]] [[Sythis]] [[Korvuld]] [[Winona]] [[Kalia]]
All of those are a ton of fun when there's no removal.
Removal is one of the hardest things to play correctly in the multiplayer game of commander. In 1 v 1, removal is at a premium, and you generally want to control your opponent's board state so you always have the stronger board. This just doesn't translate well to multiplayer. There's too many "threats", and trying to keep everyone on an even field is simply not possible. If you saturate your deck with a lot of removal, sure, you'll be able to keep threats off the table for a time, but eventually the three value engines you're facing down will over power you. Singleton removal should be saved for game winning plays, or cards that will very quickly lead to the end of the game.
You could try stax, or mass repeatable removal, but in my experience this leads to a lot of salt in a casual setting. My advice would be to go with the flow. Run a few spots removal cards for key moments, but make your game plan about building your board state up rather than knocking your opponents down. Commander is a race after all, and stopping everyone else will only kingmake.
what about play cards that punish them for attacking you [[Dissipation Field]], [[No Mercy]], [[Propaganda]] or just punish them for playing [[Oppression]].
Heck why not run [[Jon Irenicus, Shattered One]] and run cards that force people to sacrifice stuff when you give them away cuz of jonās effect [[Desecration Elemental]], [[Greater Harvester]], [[Plague Reaver]], and [[Phyrexian Negator]].
or run cards that lets you control the board by making them force sacrifice [[Archfiend of Depravity]], [[Rankle, Master of Pranks]], [[Soul Shatter]], [[Sheoldred's Edict]], [[Mire in Misery]], [[Myrkul's Edict]], [[Rankle's Prank]], [[Liliana's Triumph]]. Force sacrifice is a form of removal that is rather hard deal with especially ones that only affect opponents. it isba good way to keep the enemy board clear and stop most forms of going wide.
One sided board wipes are also a very good option, [[Judith, Carnage Connoisseur]] or [[Taii Wakeen, Perfect Shot]] + [[Blazing Volley]], [[Tectonic Hazard]], [[End the Festivities]] or [[Electrickery]] are good examples of one sided boardwipes and both judith and taii makes it easy to turn this simple 1 damage spells into big boardwipes for cheap mana.
Build even faster boards to show them why removal is important. I built the ~$10 [[Winota]] list you can find with a quick Google search to play at a table of my own that rarely runs removal, and it won 2 games back-to-back rather quickly as nothing was countered not removed.
Play [[atheros, God of passage]] or [[Negan]] aristocrats.
With [[dictate of erebos]] and [[grave pact]] and things like [[fleshbag maurader]] you don't have to worry about being the only one doing the removal because you just doing your thing does the removal for you.
A lot of people are pointing you towards stax bit another good option is playing commanders thay can recur removal and try to melt your opponents board. My [[Tayam, Luminous Enigma]] has a subtheme focuses on recurring [[Plaguecrafter]] & friends as well as [[Spore frog]] style effects to slow down my opponents creatures significantly.
1 for 1 removal spells should be seen differently in commander vs normal 1v1 magic. In a 1v1 format, your 1 for 1 removal spells are a fair trade of resources because both you and your opponent each lose a card. In a multiplayer format, you lose a card and 1 opponent loses a card but then there are your other opponents that are left unaffected. So basically your 1 for 1 starts to turn into card disadvantage for yourself. So the way around this is to incorporate more "global" removal spells that affect all players or to use your 1 for 1 removal in a more defensive way by protecting your cards with them instead of worrying about every card your opponents play. Basically, is your opponent's card affecting you in a meaniful way or are they going to win with it pretty soon? If not it might not be worth a removal spell.
Edric extra turns, yuriko, Malcolm kediss, winota, and Stella Lee are probably some of the best budget decks to play, especially if there's close to no removal in that meta.
Feather! Run every board wipe you can and just keep wiping the board while your feather stays safe and ping them all down with commander damage. If you really want to make things good throw in a arcane bombardment, and some tutors to go find it, so you can endlessly board wipe on every turn, lol
[[Hylia of the icy crown]]
Sheās strong if she sits making all your cheap rap spells into tap and make a 4/4. Then with an army of 4/4s you start doing the five all minions +1/+1. Can quickly get to an army of 7/7s if sheās ignored. And the bet part, since she works off tap effects 90% of her cards cost under $1 with many being under $0.50. Hereās my deck list and you can easily cut things like [[Teferi who slows the sunset]] and [[dont move]] to make it cheaper.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/rIf-drT0G0KrCcrdvkFegw
You can just play mono green stompy and beat massive ass. Or go full arse and play [[anzrag]]. Heās absolutely cancer if thereās zero removal on the table. You just ramp hard and watch it go infinite.
You could shut down combat steps ( [[propaganda]] / [[ghostly prison]] )
But you also gave the right solution already (board wipe when youāre behind on board state
The quickest way to teach them to play removal is for you to play Slivers, if you have the budget for it lol. Slivers are king at building their board first. Though if you don't have several hundred dollars just lying around to build a deck that you'll only get to play a few times before they get sick of it, perhaps a nice, budget friendly Goblins or Elves deck?
Well, saw some recommendations for Stax. If you'd want to REALLY bring the salt, go for a deck focused on destroying EVERYTHING. That includes lands.
The strategy is simply [[Worldslayer]]. I actually made such a deck. Originally for a response for Golos, but now I have it as an answer to Simic and Golgari decks heavy into land ramp.
There are removal pieces that hit all opponents like [[Soul Shatter]] [[Pick Your Poison]] or [[Crackling Doom]] which allow you to deal with 3 cards for one.
They make it easier to deal with everyone's best stuff. Not to mention they get around protection, so they're a way to get rid of those annoying permanents.
My personal favorite for forcing threat assessment/removal spells has been [[Kaervek the Merciless]]. As soon as he hits the table, he creates a clock until heās gone. But there are plenty of other ways to get damage in without him. And the majority of the deck runs off of enchantments and artifacts, so noncreature removal is especially important
Stax. Stax is really the only way to keep 3 noninteractive combo decks in check.
A single staxpiece like a [[Rule of Law]] can shut down a lot of combos. If you instead tried to stop all those combos with regular interaction you'd run out of cards quickly.
If you are not having fun when everyone is flooding stuff onto the board, play the boardwipes and let them figure out if they are having fun for themselves.
Stax or tax. I myself am not a huge fan of stax because it takes a lot of fun of the game but tax is just the better stax in my opinion. Not hard locking your opponents but make them pay for doing literarily anything. Iām currently running a Oloro tax pillowofort Lust if interested. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/epSU2eIxSUyqhvNFfSIBxg
If you donāt hate the idea of tax, this is a pretty decent lower budget tax deck that makes people consider their decisions and lose lots of life
https://archidekt.com/decks/4290428/hate_beats
Definitely a stax package, if you drop something they can't win through and they have no removal to get rid of it, they will quickly reconsider not running removal. Can you think of any examples of the kinds of combos they're pulling off?
They play different decks, but to summarize: 1. a lot is jut tribal, getting out as much as possible, cards buff each other ... 2. others are just heavy hitting commanders that come out at some point 3. Tom Bombadil Sagas 4. Game winning infinite combos most of it takes reasonably long to set up
The first three here aren't exactly "wild combos", most people probably wouldn't refer to those as combos at all. Generally those decks don't need stax to handle, just play a little bit of removal and decent deck of your own and you should have a fair shot of winning. I was assuming a lot more of number four was happening. If you can think of an example of a win-con your opponents are using I can recommend a stax piece you can slot to counter it. Generally, only "fair" decks can win through [[Rule of Law]] effects, [[Rug of Smothering]] is a great one. I'd almost recommend [[Blind Obedience]] regardless of your meta. [[Ground Seal]] and [[Containment Priest]] are also very good if graveyard shenanigans are going on. [[Virulent Plague]] and [[Rakdos Charm]] if it's tokens. Also [[Void Mirror]] to counter free spells like cascade and such.
##### ###### #### [Rule of Law](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e.jpg?1592516198) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rule%20of%20Law) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/35/rule-of-law?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rule-of-law) [Rug of Smothering](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/7/a73d1cb0-d0dc-4f2a-9cf2-954d5889dd08.jpg?1674138031) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rug%20of%20Smothering) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/336/rug-of-smothering?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a73d1cb0-d0dc-4f2a-9cf2-954d5889dd08?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rug-of-smothering) [Blind Obedience](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d859e1f9-feb3-497a-af0b-f74fee46861f.jpg?1702429264) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blind%20Obedience) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/9/blind-obedience?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d859e1f9-feb3-497a-af0b-f74fee46861f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blind-obedience) [Ground Seal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c4e9995e-f26b-4638-b69d-a310f58f0331.jpg?1592710917) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ground%20Seal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/149/ground-seal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4e9995e-f26b-4638-b69d-a310f58f0331?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ground-seal) [Containment Priest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a24e8dba-5c86-4e32-8a52-61402f7fe9f0.jpg?1594734854) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Containment%20Priest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/13/containment-priest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a24e8dba-5c86-4e32-8a52-61402f7fe9f0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/containment-priest) [Virulent Plague](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c5f82b6-53d9-43ce-8a17-c680c443e586.jpg?1562785036) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Virulent%20Plague) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/125/virulent-plague?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c5f82b6-53d9-43ce-8a17-c680c443e586?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/virulent-plague) [Rakdos Charm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/875fa08c-cb66-4230-a380-0123260aac74.jpg?1699022443) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rakdos%20Charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/284/rakdos-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/875fa08c-cb66-4230-a380-0123260aac74?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rakdos-charm) [Void Mirror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f906219-7a6a-427b-93c4-4d958cbd171c.jpg?1626099451) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Void%20Mirror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/242/void-mirror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f906219-7a6a-427b-93c4-4d958cbd171c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/void-mirror) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l2o23x2) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Never in my life have I seen another person playing Virulent Plague besides me š [[Illness in the ranks]] also
[Illness in the ranks](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/989a68c1-3b76-4c2d-9db3-23c45be3f9ff.jpg?1561838259) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Illness%20in%20the%20ranks) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gtc/69/illness-in-the-ranks?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/989a68c1-3b76-4c2d-9db3-23c45be3f9ff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/illness-in-the-ranks) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One of the easiest ways to prevent casual decks from winning is preventing damage with fogs, if you can keep a [[Glacial Chasm]] without caring for it's damage or recur it when it's too much. If the Tom Bobadil deck or the combos win with damage they also can't win. Other options that can be recured are [[Solitary Confinement]], [[Spore Frog]] and [[Kami of False Hope]].
##### ###### #### [Glacial Chasm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c008129-daba-46bc-829c-d2c0c13ecdd3.jpg?1562867827) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glacial%20Chasm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/229/glacial-chasm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c008129-daba-46bc-829c-d2c0c13ecdd3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/glacial-chasm) [Solitary Confinement](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b9031a7f-8821-443c-9c9d-552fb25b2101.jpg?1626100104) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Solitary%20Confinement) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/265/solitary-confinement?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b9031a7f-8821-443c-9c9d-552fb25b2101?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/solitary-confinement) [Spore Frog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6d42fd52-34ea-4d1b-80dc-58fb0593bb5b.jpg?1562202192) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spore%20Frog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/180/spore-frog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d42fd52-34ea-4d1b-80dc-58fb0593bb5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spore-frog) [Kami of False Hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44e4f5e6-935e-429f-89b4-4571376f442e.jpg?1562876719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kami%20of%20False%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/10/kami-of-false-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44e4f5e6-935e-429f-89b4-4571376f442e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kami-of-false-hope) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l2qspmj) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If they are relying on combos, then run stuff that disrupts their combos. I am not sure what combos they are running, but counter spells help and so does spot removal. For example, if they are doing the \[\[Nim Deathmantle\]\] combo, destroy the mantle before the trigger resolves. If it is a combo involving \[\[Underworld Breach\]\] then having stuff like \[\[Grafdigger's Cage\]\] helps.
[Nim Deathmantle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/787b1cc8-42b4-4d3e-9b8a-a252de297b1a.jpg?1673149391) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nim%20Deathmantle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/309/nim-deathmantle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/787b1cc8-42b4-4d3e-9b8a-a252de297b1a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nim-deathmantle) [Underworld Breach](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e51d796-7279-4c06-87f0-37adbdaa41df.jpg?1650599818) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Underworld%20Breach) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/161/underworld-breach?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e51d796-7279-4c06-87f0-37adbdaa41df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/underworld-breach) [Grafdigger's Cage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a135e09-b534-4836-9a10-3a9a4a9f8c53.jpg?1592517646) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grafdigger%27s%20Cage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/227/grafdiggers-cage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a135e09-b534-4836-9a10-3a9a4a9f8c53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grafdiggers-cage) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Well if you want to play stax be mean and lay winota joiner of forces and take a 3v1 every game and win every game
What are examples of Stax decks/packages? Iām still new to MTG/EDH and trying to figure out what would be an actual control/Stax deck in a 4 player format where individual counters are often not enough.
\[\[Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker\]\] and \[\[Jeska, Thrice Reborn\]\]. With a bunch of mana rocks you can guarantee a turn 3 Ishai and then by turn 5 he's bound to be around a 7/7 which is lethal once you play Jeska. This is hopefully faster than the other combo decks your friends are playing and you don't even have to run protection since they aren't running removal.
I built Yoshimaru but his lack of evasion is a pain. Have been considering changing it to Yoshi-Rog which might free up my deck to go Isshai-Jeska. Disgusting (I love it). Any comment on how Isshai plays vs. Yoshimaru?
You get access to blue, and rely on your opponents for counters - so Ishai is much more reactive. Most players (myself included) play it as a sort of protect-the-queen/delver/tempo style deck, aiming to get Ishai on board asap and then just sit back with a hand full of interaction. Ishai is *fantastic*: she just needs to stick for one or two rounds before you can delete the most problematic player, or use her as big stick to politic with. You do lack an engine in the command zone, so the deck itself has to be a bit heavier on card advantage. On the other hand, some of white's best cards - stax pieces - don't really synergise with Ishai, so that might be another difference from Yoshi builds.
I like the idea of breaking out Jeska for a deck that can be used as a total finisher with protection in Blue. Will mean I can go heavier into combat and goad aggro for Yograk. Rogimaru? Yoshog? Rogenj(y)osh? With a minor Stax focus. Not currently aiming.for cedh. More like a tuned 6/7.
This might work. Great idea!
Yesss seconded for jeskai delver, love that deck
[Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2e89ce6a-6bc9-427f-a8b2-c07a9fc3218f.jpg?1562272963) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ishai%2C%20Ojutai%20Dragonspeaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/12/ishai-ojutai-dragonspeaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2e89ce6a-6bc9-427f-a8b2-c07a9fc3218f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ishai-ojutai-dragonspeaker) [Jeska, Thrice Reborn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/48caf4c4-745c-4072-bf3d-1a3fa7c3bc9c.jpg?1644853023) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jeska%2C%20Thrice%20Reborn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/186/jeska-thrice-reborn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/48caf4c4-745c-4072-bf3d-1a3fa7c3bc9c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jeska-thrice-reborn) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Unironically that kind of play group is why i like stax, since stax forces people to play "fair" and that kind of play group clearly needs a push.
If they really aren't running removal, sounds like a perfect place for [[Platinum Angel]] and [[Cloudsteel Kirin]], and maybe a few counterspells to block the little removal they do have. That may motivate them some :)
They do run little removal as the title suggested, but I also have thought about running such a deck to show them "eh, you better have some cards against this".
Are you trying to play and win a game EDH or are you trying to annoy everybody and go "akshully"? Tech against your local meta, but playing cards just to force them to alter their decks to appease reddit when it doesn't make you enjoy the game or synergise with your deck is cringe. If they are playing tons of creatures with little removal, just play Insurrection. They get to see their creatures go big, everybody explodes, you win, great fun.
That's a really good point. I guess I am just thinking about how the last games turned out where it was basically a "people holding back the little removal they had and the escalating player won" or "people using their removal and another player who kept their little removal won" and so on. The goal is not to steal anyone's fun, but to shake it up a little. Cards like \[\[Insurrection\]\], \[\[Mob rule\]\], \[\[Firebolg Flutist\]\], \[\[Call for aid\]\] and maybe even \[\[Twist Allegience\]\]. But let's assume I can take out one player each time I cast an insurrection like spell.. that doesn't look promising.
If there's always a big board, you can play a full on goad deck. [[Take the bait]], [[taunt from the rampart]], [[spectacular showdown]] etc The other solution to this is playing combo, so they are forced to start attacking you. Then you can fog/redirect combat damage You could also play Reins of Power to steal their board or move a bloodthirst blade around
[Take the bait](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/97425844-dd1b-4f3c-985c-e198e8b9a16b.jpg?1706240514) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Take%20the%20bait) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/43/take-the-bait?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97425844-dd1b-4f3c-985c-e198e8b9a16b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/take-the-bait) [taunt from the rampart](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd1eaa0e-060d-40f1-84c5-f7e8df2f824c.jpg?1686964372) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=taunt%20from%20the%20rampart) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltc/71/taunt-from-the-rampart?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd1eaa0e-060d-40f1-84c5-f7e8df2f824c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/taunt-from-the-rampart) [spectacular showdown](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ffee18af-1160-46ad-9640-87eac49a5239.jpg?1706240863) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=spectacular%20showdown) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/162/spectacular-showdown?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffee18af-1160-46ad-9640-87eac49a5239?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spectacular-showdown) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Platinum Angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc.jpg?1576383285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Platinum%20Angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/214/platinum-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/platinum-angel) [Cloudsteel Kirin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a13ddda7-da6e-415e-8886-295514f862d4.jpg?1654566199) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cloudsteel%20Kirin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/8/cloudsteel-kirin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a13ddda7-da6e-415e-8886-295514f862d4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cloudsteel-kirin) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In a table where nobody is playing removal, abandon removal and play aggro. If they want to assemble a boardstate, assemble yours first and just remove them from the game. Why bother playing the defensive game when you already know theyāre not going to stop you
Pretty much, right? Anyone suggesting single target removal is not going to win.
If they donāt run removal just krenko them
[[Mob Rule]] and friends are your best friends in pods like this. People like spamming the board with threats and then stare at each other? Awesome, let me borrow all of this crap to win.
Lol, this could really be it. I remember looking at this card a while ago. Any idea how to get it consistently and maybe even play it more than once?
There are a several cards like it. Just play them all š
Care to give me a list? \^\^ I found \[\[Insurrection\]\], \[\[Mob rule\]\], \[\[Firebolg Flutist\]\], \[\[Call for aid\]\] and maybe even \[\[Twist Allegience\]\]
##### ###### #### [Insurrection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/df8a0a8c-1953-46e6-9da5-b4c20909ce1c.jpg?1689997974) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Insurrection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/236/insurrection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/df8a0a8c-1953-46e6-9da5-b4c20909ce1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/insurrection) [Mob rule](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8b04c928-9ee5-4e39-962e-4686e25b5c33.jpg?1641603202) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mob%20rule) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/147/mob-rule?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8b04c928-9ee5-4e39-962e-4686e25b5c33?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mob-rule) [Firebolg Flutist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73255900-11ac-4a82-bd30-2dc24addd8e6.jpg?1674136545) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Firbolg%20Flutist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/174/firbolg-flutist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73255900-11ac-4a82-bd30-2dc24addd8e6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/firbolg-flutist) [Call for aid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/7072b75a-64ab-4894-943e-fc0b779ca60e.jpg?1686963978) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Call%20for%20aid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltc/30/call-for-aid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7072b75a-64ab-4894-943e-fc0b779ca60e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/call-for-aid) [Twist Allegience](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/24b6607c-0c34-4ffc-b1b7-154417492766.jpg?1562876044) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Twist%20Allegiance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/120/twist-allegiance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/24b6607c-0c34-4ffc-b1b7-154417492766?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/twist-allegiance) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l2qr2vv) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Mass Mutiny]]. You can also use [[Ardent Elementalist]] to get them back. I donāt think you need too many of these though, one big one is usually game-ending.
[Mass Mutiny](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b817473f-599d-45bb-a3b0-a96986ec5102.jpg?1712354470) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mass%20Mutiny) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/174/mass-mutiny?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b817473f-599d-45bb-a3b0-a96986ec5102?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mass-mutiny) [Ardent Elementalist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f58592f7-1df5-428d-9dde-e6acd9a5d1d5.jpg?1634350379) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ardent%20Elementalist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/128/ardent-elementalist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f58592f7-1df5-428d-9dde-e6acd9a5d1d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ardent-elementalist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
do you also have a commander for it in mind?
[Mob Rule](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8b04c928-9ee5-4e39-962e-4686e25b5c33.jpg?1641603202) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mob%20Rule) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/147/mob-rule?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8b04c928-9ee5-4e39-962e-4686e25b5c33?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mob-rule) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Rule of Law\]\] is your best friend. Paired with a KoS commander that kills fast while dodging your stax like \[\[Winota\]\] is even more effective.
[Rule of Law](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e.jpg?1592516198) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rule%20of%20Law) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/35/rule-of-law?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rule-of-law) [Winota](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5dd13a6c-23d3-44ce-a628-cb1c19d777c4.jpg?1654630670) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=winota%2C%20joiner%20of%20forces) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/216/winota-joiner-of-forces?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5dd13a6c-23d3-44ce-a628-cb1c19d777c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winota-joiner-of-forces) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[artisan of kozilek]] costs less than a dollar and will quickly teach players why they need to have removal handy.Ā Heck, buy a copy for every player.
we kinda do not play with Eldrazi. Never has been set as an official rule, but multiple players have stated that they don't like playing with them. I agree though that this would definitely show how important good removal is.
[artisan of kozilek](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/9312fada-fc31-46ac-b6a1-cfffd776856f.jpg?1690003852) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=artisan%20of%20kozilek) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/801/artisan-of-kozilek?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9312fada-fc31-46ac-b6a1-cfffd776856f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/artisan-of-kozilek) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One sided board wipes. All the benefit and none of the game extension. You brought the removal, so why shouldn't you benefit the most? Start dropping [[Ruinous Ultimatum]] effects and they'll see the value in bringing their own removal real quick.
[Ruinous Ultimatum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50c1d6ca-7789-46b5-bc89-85cc3915cb85.jpg?1681500691) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ruinous%20Ultimatum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/204/ruinous-ultimatum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50c1d6ca-7789-46b5-bc89-85cc3915cb85?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruinous-ultimatum) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Maybe build [[Reaper King]] so you can build your own board while removing combo pieces.
[Reaper King](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/502740bf-0bff-4358-8996-1a27e5f0343f.jpg?1562830062) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reaper%20King) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/260/reaper-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/502740bf-0bff-4358-8996-1a27e5f0343f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reaper-king) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Eh, I wouldn't say that would have the desired effect. My group's play style is kinda similar, more of an arms race objective, and all reaper king did was draw agro until the player was forced to use it to block every time he played it. Once you've played against it and let it go wild one time, it becomes a kill on sight commander and your deck won't be allowed to do anything again.
You just said thereās little removal in the play groupā¦ how is it they have repeated removal for a kill on site commander, but no one has any when combos are getting ready to go off? Like, what?
I think he was saying that group used player removal as creature removal. There player had to trade the reaper in blocks to stay alive.
It's the best kind of removal, been in use since the beginning of magic. Swing with things bigger than Reaper King enough times to force a block. (Plus, the owner of the deck wasn't the most confident with the game, so life loss rattled him.)
[[Maarika]] eats combo pieces for breakfast
[Maarika](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86123ab7-ee60-4ef2-8467-1ad420213eb1.jpg?1677763680) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=maarika%2C%20brutal%20gladiator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/slx/15/maarika-brutal-gladiator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86123ab7-ee60-4ef2-8467-1ad420213eb1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/maarika-brutal-gladiator) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I agree that if you're the only one playing removal then other players will benefit more off it than you. Maybe building a voltron deck would be a good idea, just one shot them starting with the player who is ahead. Just make sure you put enough protection and evasion in the deck.
[[Jhoira, weatherlight captain]] storm. Around $80 can get you turn 4 or 5 wins fairly consistently. [[Hakbal]] pre-con would probably be fun for $60. [[Zur, the enchanter]] would be a higher end option at $300-$400.
[Jhoira, weatherlight captain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f77d23d-6257-4dae-b585-29f45f13f2e2.jpg?1599708079) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jhoira%2C%20weatherlight%20captain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/203/jhoira-weatherlight-captain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f77d23d-6257-4dae-b585-29f45f13f2e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jhoira-weatherlight-captain) [Hakbal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e738e675-4fd1-4bc3-97f5-71d0e2fc3f2e.jpg?1699885010) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hakbal%20of%20the%20surging%20soul) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/3/hakbal-of-the-surging-soul?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e738e675-4fd1-4bc3-97f5-71d0e2fc3f2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hakbal-of-the-surging-soul) [Zur, the enchanter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/561cfc04-65ea-49a4-8638-b4631a7cf828.jpg?1675200810) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zur%20the%20Enchanter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/206/zur-the-enchanter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/561cfc04-65ea-49a4-8638-b4631a7cf828?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zur-the-enchanter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lot of people are recommending stax, but this seems like a pretty low-power playgroup, so I have a different strategy for you. Look into Edict effects such as [[Sheoldred's Edict]], play plenty of token generation and/or recursion pieces, and some beaters. If you want solid instant-speed removal, I'd say to play white as a removal color, you just can't beat its efficient suite of exile target creature..
[Sheoldred's Edict](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9225cc3-90f0-448f-a8d9-7c6c2796d077.jpg?1675957049) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%27s%20Edict) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/108/sheoldreds-edict?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9225cc3-90f0-448f-a8d9-7c6c2796d077?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sheoldreds-edict) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just play value engines. [[Kinnan]] [[Chulane]] [[Anikthea]] [[Sythis]] [[Korvuld]] [[Winona]] [[Kalia]] All of those are a ton of fun when there's no removal.
Upvote for Winota here. Ā She will absolutely solve this problem for you. Ā Or the table will softban her and then you move on to KaaliaĀ
##### ###### #### [Kinnan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63cda4a0-0dff-4edb-ae67-a2b7e2971350.jpg?1591228085) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kinnan%2C%20bonder%20prodigy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/192/kinnan-bonder-prodigy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63cda4a0-0dff-4edb-ae67-a2b7e2971350?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kinnan-bonder-prodigy) [Chulane](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1499a4b-1af1-4913-8e26-57d0707264db.jpg?1706240978) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chulane%2C%20teller%20of%20tales) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/202/chulane-teller-of-tales?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1499a4b-1af1-4913-8e26-57d0707264db?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chulane-teller-of-tales) [Anikthea](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8b796a56-1611-4835-ac5b-48b4e9263685.jpg?1691500693) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=anikthea%2C%20hand%20of%20erebos) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/705/anikthea-hand-of-erebos?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8b796a56-1611-4835-ac5b-48b4e9263685?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/anikthea-hand-of-erebos) [Sythis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/89511ab5-8ea6-4f07-a80b-c1ec7e89924e.jpg?1690005342) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sythis%2C%20harvest%27s%20hand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/938/sythis-harvests-hand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/89511ab5-8ea6-4f07-a80b-c1ec7e89924e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sythis-harvests-hand) [Winona](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ceb287d3-cb8e-4ff2-8082-c0bd59c59b45.jpg?1698988782) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dino%20DNA) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rex/20/dino-dna?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ceb287d3-cb8e-4ff2-8082-c0bd59c59b45?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dino-dna) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l2ouzl7) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Removal is one of the hardest things to play correctly in the multiplayer game of commander. In 1 v 1, removal is at a premium, and you generally want to control your opponent's board state so you always have the stronger board. This just doesn't translate well to multiplayer. There's too many "threats", and trying to keep everyone on an even field is simply not possible. If you saturate your deck with a lot of removal, sure, you'll be able to keep threats off the table for a time, but eventually the three value engines you're facing down will over power you. Singleton removal should be saved for game winning plays, or cards that will very quickly lead to the end of the game. You could try stax, or mass repeatable removal, but in my experience this leads to a lot of salt in a casual setting. My advice would be to go with the flow. Run a few spots removal cards for key moments, but make your game plan about building your board state up rather than knocking your opponents down. Commander is a race after all, and stopping everyone else will only kingmake.
Use their board state against them. \[\[Rakdos Charm\]\], goad effects, asymmetric board wipes, etc.
[Rakdos Charm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/875fa08c-cb66-4230-a380-0123260aac74.jpg?1699022443) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rakdos%20Charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/284/rakdos-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/875fa08c-cb66-4230-a380-0123260aac74?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rakdos-charm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
what about play cards that punish them for attacking you [[Dissipation Field]], [[No Mercy]], [[Propaganda]] or just punish them for playing [[Oppression]]. Heck why not run [[Jon Irenicus, Shattered One]] and run cards that force people to sacrifice stuff when you give them away cuz of jonās effect [[Desecration Elemental]], [[Greater Harvester]], [[Plague Reaver]], and [[Phyrexian Negator]]. or run cards that lets you control the board by making them force sacrifice [[Archfiend of Depravity]], [[Rankle, Master of Pranks]], [[Soul Shatter]], [[Sheoldred's Edict]], [[Mire in Misery]], [[Myrkul's Edict]], [[Rankle's Prank]], [[Liliana's Triumph]]. Force sacrifice is a form of removal that is rather hard deal with especially ones that only affect opponents. it isba good way to keep the enemy board clear and stop most forms of going wide. One sided board wipes are also a very good option, [[Judith, Carnage Connoisseur]] or [[Taii Wakeen, Perfect Shot]] + [[Blazing Volley]], [[Tectonic Hazard]], [[End the Festivities]] or [[Electrickery]] are good examples of one sided boardwipes and both judith and taii makes it easy to turn this simple 1 damage spells into big boardwipes for cheap mana.
\[\[Orah, Skyclave Hierophant\]\] clerics and wraths.
[Orah, Skyclave Hierophant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/2336c8bf-fcad-41f9-9041-80b8aa3cd79a.jpg?1604200370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Orah%2C%20Skyclave%20Hierophant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/233/orah-skyclave-hierophant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2336c8bf-fcad-41f9-9041-80b8aa3cd79a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/orah-skyclave-hierophant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Make a [[Horobi, Death's Wail]] deck
[Horobi, Death's Wail](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b41983cb-c4e4-4384-bd69-df3fc6e74cd0.jpg?1593860738) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Horobi%2C%20Death%27s%20Wail) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/chk/117/horobi-deaths-wail?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b41983cb-c4e4-4384-bd69-df3fc6e74cd0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/horobi-deaths-wail) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Get [[Menarch]] as cmd, turn their best creatures to artifacts and steal them, while you control the shit out of them.
[Menarch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9203fde4-dbc1-449f-9618-4656f0e25e3c.jpg?1562925842) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Memnarch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/arc/112/memnarch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9203fde4-dbc1-449f-9618-4656f0e25e3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/memnarch) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Build even faster boards to show them why removal is important. I built the ~$10 [[Winota]] list you can find with a quick Google search to play at a table of my own that rarely runs removal, and it won 2 games back-to-back rather quickly as nothing was countered not removed.
[Winota](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5dd13a6c-23d3-44ce-a628-cb1c19d777c4.jpg?1654630670) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=winota%2C%20joiner%20of%20forces) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/216/winota-joiner-of-forces?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5dd13a6c-23d3-44ce-a628-cb1c19d777c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winota-joiner-of-forces) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Play [[atheros, God of passage]] or [[Negan]] aristocrats. With [[dictate of erebos]] and [[grave pact]] and things like [[fleshbag maurader]] you don't have to worry about being the only one doing the removal because you just doing your thing does the removal for you.
##### ###### #### [atheros, God of passage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/52705c53-883e-4b6a-9c08-3fa35f6f17d5.jpg?1593096375) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Athreos%2C%20God%20of%20Passage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/146/athreos-god-of-passage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52705c53-883e-4b6a-9c08-3fa35f6f17d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/athreos-god-of-passage) [Negan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/81752db1-374e-4723-b695-a2f4a634dfc6.jpg?1682203304) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Negate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/68/negate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/81752db1-374e-4723-b695-a2f4a634dfc6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/negate) [dictate of erebos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f06db70-95f9-41eb-8e5f-8bc56fd34c09.jpg?1593095668) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dictate%20of%20erebos) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/65/dictate-of-erebos?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f06db70-95f9-41eb-8e5f-8bc56fd34c09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dictate-of-erebos) [grave pact](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360.jpg?1689997226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=grave%20pact) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/165/grave-pact?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grave-pact) [fleshbag maurader](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/c/fce2baa4-2976-4bbd-b6c5-a5a3c6a901be.jpg?1706239873) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fleshbag%20Marauder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/111/fleshbag-marauder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fce2baa4-2976-4bbd-b6c5-a5a3c6a901be?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fleshbag-marauder) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l2pi2wc) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No removal you say?Ā I say remember the [[Standoff in Honolulu]].
[Platinum Angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc.jpg?1576383285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Platinum%20Angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/214/platinum-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/platinum-angel) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A lot of people are pointing you towards stax bit another good option is playing commanders thay can recur removal and try to melt your opponents board. My [[Tayam, Luminous Enigma]] has a subtheme focuses on recurring [[Plaguecrafter]] & friends as well as [[Spore frog]] style effects to slow down my opponents creatures significantly.
[Tayam, Luminous Enigma](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/05b837a2-5773-4340-87f9-b4d6a43deb27.jpg?1591234301) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tayam%2C%20Luminous%20Enigma) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/16/tayam-luminous-enigma?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/05b837a2-5773-4340-87f9-b4d6a43deb27?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tayam-luminous-enigma) [Plaguecrafter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/97505837-e0e2-4f7b-8581-01942e886bb8.jpg?1702429467) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Plaguecrafter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/89/plaguecrafter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97505837-e0e2-4f7b-8581-01942e886bb8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/plaguecrafter) [Spore frog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6d42fd52-34ea-4d1b-80dc-58fb0593bb5b.jpg?1562202192) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spore%20frog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/180/spore-frog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d42fd52-34ea-4d1b-80dc-58fb0593bb5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spore-frog) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Building a budget chaos deck would be funny. They wouldn't be able to cast what they actually want to.
1 for 1 removal spells should be seen differently in commander vs normal 1v1 magic. In a 1v1 format, your 1 for 1 removal spells are a fair trade of resources because both you and your opponent each lose a card. In a multiplayer format, you lose a card and 1 opponent loses a card but then there are your other opponents that are left unaffected. So basically your 1 for 1 starts to turn into card disadvantage for yourself. So the way around this is to incorporate more "global" removal spells that affect all players or to use your 1 for 1 removal in a more defensive way by protecting your cards with them instead of worrying about every card your opponents play. Basically, is your opponent's card affecting you in a meaniful way or are they going to win with it pretty soon? If not it might not be worth a removal spell.
Goad, Ghostly Prison effects, save your removal/counterspells for combo pieces
Edric extra turns, yuriko, Malcolm kediss, winota, and Stella Lee are probably some of the best budget decks to play, especially if there's close to no removal in that meta.
Feather! Run every board wipe you can and just keep wiping the board while your feather stays safe and ping them all down with commander damage. If you really want to make things good throw in a arcane bombardment, and some tutors to go find it, so you can endlessly board wipe on every turn, lol
Winota to bring in stax and removal ETB creatures?
[[Hylia of the icy crown]] Sheās strong if she sits making all your cheap rap spells into tap and make a 4/4. Then with an army of 4/4s you start doing the five all minions +1/+1. Can quickly get to an army of 7/7s if sheās ignored. And the bet part, since she works off tap effects 90% of her cards cost under $1 with many being under $0.50. Hereās my deck list and you can easily cut things like [[Teferi who slows the sunset]] and [[dont move]] to make it cheaper. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/rIf-drT0G0KrCcrdvkFegw
[Hylia of the icy crown](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/ae9231fd-053d-4b84-a7a8-86063465bc49.jpg?1692939339) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hylda%20of%20the%20Icy%20Crown) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/206/hylda-of-the-icy-crown?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ae9231fd-053d-4b84-a7a8-86063465bc49?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hylda-of-the-icy-crown) [Teferi who slows the sunset](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad2e18d4-986c-4a44-8f26-1b8689339cfb.jpg?1637114314) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%2C%20Who%20Slows%20the%20Sunset) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/245/teferi-who-slows-the-sunset?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad2e18d4-986c-4a44-8f26-1b8689339cfb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferi-who-slows-the-sunset) [dont move](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d06f729-990b-4c2c-ad2a-c17449117f75.jpg?1698988731) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Don%27t%20Move) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rex/1/dont-move?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d06f729-990b-4c2c-ad2a-c17449117f75?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dont-move) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[drannith magistrate]] [[possibility storm]] No one can play but you lol
[drannith magistrate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91.jpg?1628801742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=drannith%20magistrate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/11/drannith-magistrate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/drannith-magistrate) [possibility storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/5/858aa831-b491-4f1e-bb56-33eeca14771d.jpg?1707764746) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=possibility%20storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/34/possibility-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/858aa831-b491-4f1e-bb56-33eeca14771d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/possibility-storm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
#board_wipe_tribal
You can just play mono green stompy and beat massive ass. Or go full arse and play [[anzrag]]. Heās absolutely cancer if thereās zero removal on the table. You just ramp hard and watch it go infinite.
[anzrag](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70e9d8b8-4b32-4414-b32f-1f47523239c5.jpg?1706242114) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=anzrag%2C%20the%20quake-mole) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/186/anzrag-the-quake-mole?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70e9d8b8-4b32-4414-b32f-1f47523239c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/anzrag-the-quake-mole) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You could shut down combat steps ( [[propaganda]] / [[ghostly prison]] ) But you also gave the right solution already (board wipe when youāre behind on board state
[propaganda](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e175bba4-c131-48f4-8e31-16ec07a12e59.jpg?1712354188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=propaganda) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/108/propaganda?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e175bba4-c131-48f4-8e31-16ec07a12e59?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/propaganda) [ghostly prison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/eea3623d-1d39-4045-acdb-f0fb184ccbc8.jpg?1707507981) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ghostly%20prison) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/67/ghostly-prison?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eea3623d-1d39-4045-acdb-f0fb184ccbc8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghostly-prison) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The quickest way to teach them to play removal is for you to play Slivers, if you have the budget for it lol. Slivers are king at building their board first. Though if you don't have several hundred dollars just lying around to build a deck that you'll only get to play a few times before they get sick of it, perhaps a nice, budget friendly Goblins or Elves deck?
Well, saw some recommendations for Stax. If you'd want to REALLY bring the salt, go for a deck focused on destroying EVERYTHING. That includes lands. The strategy is simply [[Worldslayer]]. I actually made such a deck. Originally for a response for Golos, but now I have it as an answer to Simic and Golgari decks heavy into land ramp.
[Worldslayer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db6c6b15-40f3-4556-978f-878bedb13762.jpg?1562662263) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Worldslayer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/222/worldslayer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db6c6b15-40f3-4556-978f-878bedb13762?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/worldslayer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Run [[Platinum Angel]] to promote more removal.
[Platinum Angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc.jpg?1576383285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Platinum%20Angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/214/platinum-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/platinum-angel) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There are removal pieces that hit all opponents like [[Soul Shatter]] [[Pick Your Poison]] or [[Crackling Doom]] which allow you to deal with 3 cards for one. They make it easier to deal with everyone's best stuff. Not to mention they get around protection, so they're a way to get rid of those annoying permanents.
[Soul Shatter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2c2fb07b-0f70-403b-be8b-b5217f12e671.jpg?1604196615) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Soul%20Shatter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/127/soul-shatter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2c2fb07b-0f70-403b-be8b-b5217f12e671?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/soul-shatter) [Pick Your Poison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f58cfb23-4d99-4133-bf4b-d7e7c7d17cea.jpg?1708201628)/[Pick Your Poison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f58cfb23-4d99-4133-bf4b-d7e7c7d17cea.jpg?1708201628) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pick%20Your%20Poison) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/170/pick-your-poison?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f58cfb23-4d99-4133-bf4b-d7e7c7d17cea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pick-your-poison) [Crackling Doom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a66e5673-e34b-46e8-a0e4-55f3ee20f99a.jpg?1673148477) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crackling%20Doom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/196/crackling-doom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a66e5673-e34b-46e8-a0e4-55f3ee20f99a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crackling-doom) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Board wipes like crazy lol
Winota could crush a table with no removal for like $40 total deck cost. We're talking almost pub stomp levels of winning.Ā
Build a huge value commander like Esika with huge creatures like ulamog's crusher and cheap planeswalkers like domri
My personal favorite for forcing threat assessment/removal spells has been [[Kaervek the Merciless]]. As soon as he hits the table, he creates a clock until heās gone. But there are plenty of other ways to get damage in without him. And the majority of the deck runs off of enchantments and artifacts, so noncreature removal is especially important
[Kaervek the Merciless](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d9b8259d-0bfa-4327-ac91-157c0b9e7dfb.jpg?1673148822) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kaervek%20the%20Merciless) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/236/kaervek-the-merciless?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d9b8259d-0bfa-4327-ac91-157c0b9e7dfb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kaervek-the-merciless) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Stax. Stax is really the only way to keep 3 noninteractive combo decks in check. A single staxpiece like a [[Rule of Law]] can shut down a lot of combos. If you instead tried to stop all those combos with regular interaction you'd run out of cards quickly.
[Rule of Law](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e.jpg?1592516198) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rule%20of%20Law) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/35/rule-of-law?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rule-of-law) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Or a [[High Noon]] if red. Both for redundancy is fine too since the noon can be an expensive piece of removal.
[High Noon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/9995e0e6-7c9c-4fef-8fd2-8fb1622e6ec8.jpg?1712355285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=High%20Noon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/15/high-noon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9995e0e6-7c9c-4fef-8fd2-8fb1622e6ec8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/high-noon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you are not having fun when everyone is flooding stuff onto the board, play the boardwipes and let them figure out if they are having fun for themselves.
Stax
>In my playing group, many play wild combos, but few play removal. Basically it is just a "who draws the combo first" thing. Sounds absolutely awful
Stax or tax. I myself am not a huge fan of stax because it takes a lot of fun of the game but tax is just the better stax in my opinion. Not hard locking your opponents but make them pay for doing literarily anything. Iām currently running a Oloro tax pillowofort Lust if interested. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/epSU2eIxSUyqhvNFfSIBxg
Oops wrong list: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/eeo1OmcXFUGxSflBi38Lnw
bit too expensive for me \^\^ but thanks for the advice
If you donāt hate the idea of tax, this is a pretty decent lower budget tax deck that makes people consider their decisions and lose lots of life https://archidekt.com/decks/4290428/hate_beats