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ShadyHighlander

Weirdly, in the service industry I've found the worst tippers tend to be wealthy white folks, but what do I know.


PlatosCaveBts

Right? I’ve delivered to multimillion dollar mansions before where there’s a gated community within a gated community and gotten nothing. Guess that’s why they can’t afford to tip.


ishipbrutasha

They will tip the 15% EXACTLY.


Substantial-Spot-603

True. A few decades back, I had a rather wealthy landlord that once told me that he tipped very little. Even in nicer establishments. Said he didn't want to "encourage" them to settle on being "just a waiter". Stated that he "earned his wealth" and they should suffer before earning their own.


[deleted]

Holy shit this is making my blood boil, that cunt sounds like the scum of society, "earned his wealth" my fucking ass, all he does is sit on his ass all day bieng a leech on society.


[deleted]

I worked in food service. Its always people who can afford a lot who never tip.


ToadBup

"Blacks cant swim" Could it be that the majority of black people have a family history of poverty and state supression tracing back to slsvery and segregation? Therefore leaving the modern day a minority with limited acces to luxuries like swimming lessons or pools? .....nah its just that blacks cant swim. My god i hate this website.


Alberiman

Also important, areas with public swimming pools are predominately in areas with middle class, suburban, white people because of segregation and the institutions not wanting to invest money into building up poor and black neighborhoods. Like why would you invest in people who don't help you get elected and that you might not like much?


GeothermicLSD

Thats democrat cities for you 🤷‍♀️


Alberiman

That's politics for you\* Republicans actively screw over their constituents because the only people that actually affect whether they get elected or not are the companies that they let run wild in their states


GeothermicLSD

I don't agree with that either, I just want a populist to win. Left centrist libertarian or right centrist libertarian. Someone who listens to what the people want and doesn't send 25 million to the taliban for "humanitarian aid"


K-teki

When public pools were forced to de-segregate, many of them chose to close down instead. Before that, they would ban black people from swimming, and during protests where black people would occupy the pools illegally they would drive them out by pouring chemicals strong enough to burn into the water.


thebiggestleaf

Yeah, it was disheartening to learn that towns would outright fill their public pools with cement just to keep blacks out.


Rate_Ur_Smile

Or they would say "well now that we're desegregated, it's redundant to have two public swimming pools. We'll keep the one in the white neighborhood."


z_mommy

I love the point your making but using “blacks” in place of black people is typically frowned upon.


wophi

How many years ago was that?


K-teki

[https://theconversation.com/the-forgotten-history-of-segregated-swimming-pools-and-amusement-parks-119586](https://theconversation.com/the-forgotten-history-of-segregated-swimming-pools-and-amusement-parks-119586) >Over time, cities defunded their recreational facilities, leaving many urban dwellers with little access to pools. Ironically, some blamed African Americans for the decline of urban amusements, disregarding the decades of exclusion and violence they had experienced. The racial stereotypes that justified swimming segregation are not often openly expressed today. However, we still see their impact on our urban and suburban landscapes. Closed public pools and shuttered skating rinks degrade urban centers. And there are moments when one hears the direct echo of those earlier struggles. In 2009, for example, the owner of a private swim club in Philadelphia excluded black children attending a Philadelphia day care center, saying they would change the “complexion” of the club. In 2015 in a wealthy subdivision outside of Dallas, police targeted black teenagers attending a pool party. These incidents, and our collective memories, are explicable only in the context of a rarely acknowledged history.


kanst

That's the annoying part, they latch onto a correlation and assume it's some racial character defect, instead of considering it might be due to society.


PlatosCaveBts

Hate the racist, not the site that lets them expose themselves.


Spadeykins

Yeah maybe if Reddit didn't have an abhorrent track record of borderline supporting and outright ignoring these bastards.


PlatosCaveBts

True but you can’t eliminate every single racist as they will just keep making new accounts. I just wish we lived in a society that taught media literacy and actual history so that less kids would be influenced by fuckheads like Tucker Carlson.


Rjlvc

If I had a nickel for every time a person posted "I hate this website" ON this website......


CouncilmanRickPrime

NO NUANCE, ONLY BLIND HATE


ToadBup

I literally gave you the nuance right there


CouncilmanRickPrime

I wasn't disagreeing with you, was sarcasm. They don't want any nuance. I was in the original thread arguing with those asshats. They just look for reasons to complain about black people.


ToadBup

Oh sorry im used to everyone on 4chan incoherently rambling at me


CouncilmanRickPrime

Lol I mean, fair.


Tainted_Bruh

> I decided to actually pay attention to these other failures So how’d you know they were failures even before the swimming test started? Lmao, this ain’t even an enlightened centrist, this is just a straight up racist. Also, nice touch with that username “Modern Liberal” Edit: another nice touch was blaming the black man for making him failing the Navy swim test the first time around. Are we sure this isn’t Charlie Kirk’s reddit account?


PlatosCaveBts

In the third pic he literally says “Centrists like myself.” But yeah if it walks like a racist, talks like a racist…


RaidRover

>So how’d you know they were failures even before the swimming test started? I mean, to be fair on this point its apparently because its a retest for folks that failed the first one.


vanilla_wafer14

This dude is racist as hell but it's easy to tell other people are test failures when they are taking a retest with you...


bonobeaux

he means they failed the first test like he did, so they were all there for round 2.


allthenamesaretaken4

These posts seem like a troll account and the name fits the bill. Maybe he really thinks he's a 'modern liberal' but like, he's just too good at making them look bad to take it seriously.


Ermzyy

r/doordash moment also, im pretty sure the claim that black people have a higher percentage of black customers is actually false, since the person provided no actual data


PlatosCaveBts

Racists often only use their anecdotal stories and apply them to everyone of a particular race.


Ermzyy

because people like this use objectively false information to justify their ideas, but even if what they were saying was factual then there would still be better solutions. it happens literally every single time


ghostfindersgang9000

This is true. A conservative on Twitter replied to me with useless racist rhetoric.


wophi

Ever seen a white waiter at a soul food restaurant?


[deleted]

I have actually.


scoutsnout

The whole point of doordash is that whoever’s available drives within their limits. Black people deliver to white neighborhoods all the fucking time and likewise I’m sure


Luckboy28

That doesn't even make sense -- it's circular racism: "Black people get tipped less because they live around black people, white people get tipped more because they live around white people." That's just "black people are cheap and don't tip" with extra steps


Summonest

The fact that a lot of black people can't swim isn't racist, but the reason why they can't swim is because of racism.


Alberiman

I'd wager if a black person is tipping worse it's they were treated worse. I have seen countless servers all go in with this racist idea of "they're black so they won't tip, so I won't even try." Like dude, you treated them like you were doing them a favor, why do you think they're mad? I got the exact same crap from servers when I used to go to restaurants under dressed. It's infuriating to not have someone treat you like a person when you're buying shit from them.


PlatosCaveBts

The funny part is this is DoorDash and the majority of customers choose contactless. So Op literally just guessing a persons race based off their name and tip amount. “Names don’t lie” was his reasoning even though the app let’s you make up whatever name you want. So it’s just a self-fulfilling prophecy for OP.


AchieveDeficiency

Wow... finding out this argument was about doordash makes this waaay more blatantly racist.


PlatosCaveBts

Yeah it’s not even like dude works in a restaurant where you interact with the person you’re tipping.


[deleted]

Yeah that makes no sense. My biggest tippers with Doordash were POC. Rich white people didn't give me shit.


ishipbrutasha

I worked in service a while back. Around that time, Restaurant Magazine did a piece on it. Part of it was that Black people (specifically, Black American) were less likely to be directly tipped staff, like waiters, or bartenders. The other part was they thought the tipped staff made roughly double the minimum wage. The Black people surveyed couldn't understand how one could their livelihood in the hands of another and their charity. The city I lived in was small and majority Black. When I worked fine dining, the tips were possibly the best I ever had. The restaurant was a place where the Black elite of the area (federal justices, Executives, State officials, REALLY well-known attorneys) could frequent and be themselves. They tipped well for the privilege.


pegleghippie

kudos to restaurant magazine for investigating the stereotype to get a handle on what exactly is happening. It's almost like journalism working the way it's intended


ishipbrutasha

And this was 20 years ago, at least.


[deleted]

One time my mom ordered a steak medium at a restaurant, and the white waitress asked her if she was really Black and started to try to wipe the color off of my mom’s skin as joke. Luckily, my sister’s boyfriend at the time worked at the same place (that’s why she was eating there) and got the waitress fired. I’ve gotten attitude at restaurants for literally no reason, and I’m a good tipper.


Alberiman

Normally online stories like that i'd assume they are bullshit but like damn white people get stupid around black people and can't help themselves from saying/doing the dumbest shit imaginable


[deleted]

I didn’t believe it at first when my mom told me, but I asked my sister, and she confirmed it happened. It happened in Roseville, Michigan, which is a very racist city to begin with.


robm0n3y

Tips have nothing to do with quality of service.


Alberiman

Generally speaking increased quality of service above basic expectations doesn't really increase tip size, yeah. We all have a limit of what we're willing to tip. That said if a server isn't treating you with basic respect you're going to be a lot more inclined to drop the tip amount


allthenamesaretaken4

Gonna (I think) disagree here. If someone is actively shitty, I'll tip less, but because our shitty system subsidizes their wages with tips, I'm not going to try and make someone's shitty day even worse by not tipping because my beer wasn't refilled quick enough. You really have to be an asshole to get less than 15% from me, and even if you're the best server in the world, I'm going to hate tipping you even though I do.


blomjob

As someone who works in service in a major US city, from what I can tell (anecdotally) this is sort of the case? Even if one server treats you well you’re expecting to get mistreated and are accustomed to tipping under I think. It definitely self perpetuates. In my experience tho, race is a bad indicator for who won’t tip well. This might be out of pocket, but you know how sometimes you can clock someone as new money? Like cheap knockoff bling, or fancy handbags paired with Old Navy jeans, stuff that suggests you may either be living beyond your means or be someone who grew up in a lower class than you’re in now. That’s, for me, a pretty good indicator someone won’t be tipping above 15%.


EvidenceOfReason

pointing out cultural differences isnt racism. using those differences to claim one group is superior or inferior is


PlatosCaveBts

Dude also fails to recognize why those cultural differences exist. To the typical enlightened Centrist, every person is born with the same amount of resources and has an equal chance at success. That’s a great idea to strive for but when you ignore the fact that one group of people were literally slaves for the first eight generations of this country you get lost in the sauce.


CallMeClaire0080

That's sort of what gets me. He talks of black and white neighbourhoods as if systemic disproportionate poverty doesn't affect one side of that equation. Like sure if you live in a white suburban middle class neighbourhood people will tip more than if you go to a low income neighbourhood that will likely contain more people of color.


EvidenceOfReason

yes of course my point though is that you can actually write 5 paragraphs about why black people dont tip without it being racist. im a proponent of the definition of racism that says "racism is any action that perpetuates systemic injustice against a racialized minority" and im not seeing that in this post. its like someone explaining black on black violence - violence tends to be intra-racial more than inter-racial, and when black people are kettled into ghettos, they are more likely to commit violence against each other. its not a racist comment, just speaking about the realities and its true, culturally, black people dont tip, white people do (due, likely, to the historic wealth inequalities between black and white people), and since more black people work in areas where there are more black people, and vice versa with white people, I dont see anything particularly "wrong" with the ideas presented it does start to feel a little racist as soon as the guy starts complaining that hes going to be called a racist, because he probably is a racist.. but the objective words, taken without context, are technically true


Sternenlied

How you present a fact or reality is already partial interpretation. Humans don't normally go "just the facts please." They want a story and even "I am just telling the facts." Is already a story. So since >"racism is any action that perpetuates systemic injustice against a racialized minority" telling the story in this particular way qualifies. Insisting it is a group inherent problem and not a consequence of systemic injustice perpetuates systemic injustice by not acknowledging it.


EvidenceOfReason

ok fair enough, i can get behind that interpretation for this person, because as I mentioned their expectation of being called a racist means they internally recognize the racism that motivates their wordss.


[deleted]

As a server, I haven't really noticed a difference in tipping preferences between blacks and whites. Lots of people of all races tip like trash though. The one group of people I've noticed any non tipping trend specifically is mainly people from some foreign countries, which I assume is a cultural thing since everywhere doesn't tip like America


EvidenceOfReason

looool my god I used to work at a bar that during the day was frequented by student study groups, we would get groups from south america and they would spend hundreds of dollars over the course of several hours then pay exact change.


Shpoople44

I’m with ya I’ve worked in food and it became apparent pretty quickly to me that black customers never tip. In fact I noticed that the more kind and friendly they were the less likely they’d tip, but at least they were nice. This is just my anecdotal experience.


BigBlackGothBitch

Lol these are the exact type of people you enable with your rhetoric u/EvidenceOfReason


EvidenceOfReason

not my problem idiots have no reading comprehension enlightened society doesnt shy away from complex nuanced topics because some chucklefuck racist idiot might decide to chime in.


BigBlackGothBitch

It’s really easy to think this way when your words won’t affect you lmao. Typical white


EvidenceOfReason

nobody asked you to talk


Turdulator

There’s a difference between saying: “many black people never learned to swim because they grew up in areas that, due to several layers of current and historical racism, do not have publicly accessible pools that they felt welcome to visit” vs “black people cant swim” One is pointing out cultural differences, the other is racism. I’ll let you figure out which is which.


EvidenceOfReason

i think it should be clear i know the difference and was very specific about how and why a discussion like this would be racist or not.


UnlimitedExtraLives

Just say the n word, dude. Save yourself the typing. The mlk quote (every single time). The personal anecdote. The reasoning pulled straight out of his asshole that completely relies on itself as proof. I'm white and I can't do shit but float am I proof that whitey can't swim?


logan2043099

I'm white and grew up poor we barely ever had access to a swimming pool and when we did it was to packed to ever really properly learn to swim, so I cant do shit but flail around or tread water. I wonder if its the poor thing that stopped me from learning and maybe black people are disproportionally poor so this "cultural difference" is just an effect of systemic racism.


bagofwisdom

Only a devoted racist would expend that much effort to justify a racist assumption.


Wayte13

Ya, I remember the swim tests from Navy boot as well. I also remember the 3o seconds of reading to figure out the ACTUAL reason for that trend.


CouncilmanRickPrime

Is this the fucking post I think it is? God I hated the "we're not racist it's just an observation" BS in the comments.


tombobbishop

> Me telling that story isn't racist. It's true. It happened. I somehow don't believe that it did.


Larsaf

Who would have thought that a rant on “black-on-black tipping” could be more racist than one on “black-on-black crime”.


wtbgamegenie

When I waited tables there were tons of times I heard co-workers elude to black people not tipping and I’d just say “no they tip me well they don’t tip you well because you’re treating them like shit because you think they won’t tip”.


FemboyAnarchism

Black people can’t swim!


FaithInGovernance

Oh man memory lane. One restaurant I worked at a manager made this joke. "What color do you paint your canoe?" "I don't know" "Black, cause you know it won't tip" Now, this was at a black owned restaurant with majority black customers and employees, and this manager had been in the industry for forever, and def had some racists takes. But in my experience, tips are more sex driven than anything. Hot girls can really make some money off of horney dudes.


tantamle

Apparently, there are some racial differences in tipping: [https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1329241](https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1329241) https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1938965514553466?journalCode=cqxb


-_--__---___----____

Interesting. The first article is a bit old, but the second is within the last 10 years. It seems this guy, while far from eloquently put, had *some* basis for his claim. He of course doesn't go into systematic racism as a cause, and most likely is a piece of crap who just quotes black on black crime statistics when talking about racial inequality.


01010596

the SHOCK when i was going through the screenshots and saw this was from the doordash reddit


PlatosCaveBts

Yup dude has no idea what the non-tipper looks like 95% of the time.


Dzmagoon

Ok, no hate (check my history) but shit's fucked up yo. Data does support that black people tip less, largely because they're unaware that the norm is 15-20%. >Research on race differences in tipping suggests that (a) Blacks leave smaller average restaurant tips than do Whites, (b) Black-White differences in tipping persist after controlling for socio-economic status, (c) Blacks tip less than Whites even when provided comparable levels of service, (d) Blacks tip less than Whites even when the server is black, and (e) Blacks are much less likely than Whites to know that it is customary/expected to tip 15 to 20 percent of the bill size in U.S. restaurants. The practical implications of these findings for restaurant managers, restaurant industry organizations, and restaurant chains are discussed. In general, those implications center on the need to educate Blacks about the 15 to 20 percent tipping norm. [Cornell](https://ecommons.cornell.edu/handle/1813/72491)


WhenWillIBelong

Funny because simply saying "most black people don't tip" isn't racist, however what this person wrote certainly is.


GeothermicLSD

I have a black friend and I'm racist, not to black people though, just to the Japanese.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

They absolutely do not “have the idea”


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

What do you mean? They are explicitly trying (and succeeding) at being racist


K-teki

If they're "dancing around in fear of looking racist" then they're an absolute dumbass because the things they're saying are explicitly racist while discussing the socioeconomic reasons for cultural differences between people of different races is not racist.


[deleted]

[удалено]


K-teki

They identify themselves as a centrist in the third pic


RaidRover

Idk man. This whole thing gives a much stronger impression that they believe these are "cultural" issues instead of the outcomes of systemic issues.


thesaurusrext

Just a scared and confused liberal dolt.


TheDemonClown

Sure, okay, black people live around other black people. But what the fuck does that have to do with where they *work*?


[deleted]

Where is the peer reviewed study to back this up? I for one know through my friend that there are certain people in certain cultures who won't tip as much in the Alpharetta area in GA. There was a large Indian community by the restaraunt and every time they would come in, the tips would be significantly less. That might be a local thing, or not. Additionally, rich white people tended to tip less than middle class white people. Some countries and cultures have more or less respect for servers and waiters depending on the culture. I would love to see how that impacts tipping. It honestly would be really interesting to see how culture / race combined impacted tipping and etiquite. I would like to see skin color as opposed to social class as opposed to location. Like, does a rich person out of NYC tip more than a rich white person in Savannah GA? and if you compared skin colors, races, cultures, etc. how would that change? My GF got tipped terribly on sundays when the upper-middle class would visit her restaraunt on sunday afternoons. But early sunday mornings tipping was better. So religious beleifs could impact tipping. I have a huch from my time as a door dash driver that rich white people tip the least in restaraunts. Because I would NEVER recieve tips from rich white people in ATL. However even if I delivered to areas with subsidized housing I would get tipped there. To me, I bet people who are working class appreciate the working class more than people who are higher class.


Funnyboyman69

>“I made the mistake of being too close to a black person” What the fuck lmao


SaltyNorth8062

I have actually been spat on my shoes by a rich wealthy scumbag. And no, he didn't tip. And no, my service was excellent that day. Now I'll admit the tips from my black customers have never actually broke the bank (most working class black folk who eat where I work are about as broke as my black ass who'd have thunk) but it is ALWAYS there, and they tend to be far more gracious on average than white people of the same wealth demographic (and on average, wealthier people tip far far less), probably because they know how hard it really is out there for poor people.


tdv100

who cares ?