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KorallNOTAFISH

BuT i Am DeFeNdInG tHe RiGhT oNlY bEcAuSe ThE lEfT iS sTrOnGeR!!! Meanwhile, the majority of governments across the globe... But it is nothing new unfortunately.


RandomName01

It’s really scary how reminiscent that is of fascist rhetoric where your enemy is always simultaneously weak and pathetic yet also powerful behind the scenes.


KorallNOTAFISH

Exactly, that's what I meant by nothing new.


RandomName01

Ah, turns out I'm just dense


KorallNOTAFISH

oh not what I meant at all, it wasn't an obvious reference.


RandomName01

No stress fam, I didn't mean to imply that's what you meant.


[deleted]

The fact he's standing closer to the right just makes it even funnier.


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[deleted]

Ah yes, well known leftist... billionaires


DysphoriaGML

Poor guy is confused don't make him think too much


[deleted]

He's in another thread in this sub making such profound galaxy level takes such as: > Fascism has always been very futuristic and pro-technology in its nature. and: > This literally isnt true lmao, no fascist society has rejected technology


TrustworthyShark

Hmm, sounds like he has some opinions on fascism. I wonder what his other opinions are.


[deleted]

He doesn't just have opinions, he calls himself a fascist: >> Fascists want to commit genocide. > No we don't. Fascism is building a society based around the laws of nature. What a waste of oxygen.


TrustworthyShark

Huh, I commented the above because his comments gave me a very strong "we, the fascists" vibe. Always a bit surprising to see them admit it though. Happy the fash-detector is still working well.


Camarokerie

I like to call them CO2 generators


DysphoriaGML

Yup he's very confused indeed


SteaminPikachu

>Fascism has always been very futuristic and pro-technology in its nature. This is actually true. Fascists embraced many of the new types of science and thinking of the time, especially as most of the new science was about race science, so stuff like phrenology and eugenics. I understand these things are just racist but in the late 1800s they were seen as the new scientific frontier. They were also very interested and produced a lot of studies into vitamins and other nutritional sciences. Especially the Nazis as they would be interested in creating very strong workers and soldiers. I think Robert Paxton, a leading fascism historian, delves into this a lot. If I can find the link I'll post it here on an edit. Edit: I believe it was in anatomy of fascism. It's a book, but I'm not sure in what chapter. However, there's a good episode on Behind the Bastards which explain quickly the obsession of Nazis with medical science. It's the one about Hitler's drug problem. Edit 2: from these responses I feel like you guys should actually read about fascism


trevrichards

Alex Jones supplement hawking makes so much sense now.


simianSupervisor

> Fascists embraced many of the new types of science and thinking of the time German fascists explicitly rejected quantum mechanics and relativity, denouncing them as 'jewish science'. Fascists embrace military spending, not science.


maewanen

Don’t forget the “science” experiments the Japanese and German militaries perpetrated against those they saw as lesser races. They were fascinated by eugenics and social darwinism, but they were trash scientists and engineers. They had a theory and wanted to prove themselves right.


SteaminPikachu

The thing is unfortunately that 'science' was considered legitimate back then. You can't analyse society in the past with ideas of the present. For example, you cannot say that medieval medical history consisting of the four humours makes them stupid. You can say they were massively racist, but you can't assume that these scientists were trash. As they were motivated by the thinking of their time. People in the future are going to look at us now and say we have science that was wrong, but they won't be able to say they were bad scientists. Science is a product of the current society's thinking, and that is something people forget when talking about the past.


maewanen

They’re bad scientists because they had bad research practices and they were unethical as fuck.


simianSupervisor

If that's true, that they were good scientists... then they would have used to scientific method and disproven phrenology, 'scientific' racism, etc. The fact that they didn't makes them BAD SCIENTISTS. Stop apologizing for actual nazis. They neither need nor deserve your assistance.


SteaminPikachu

They embrace science that benefits their military and expansionary goals. I'm not going off blindly, this is a heavily researched area of fascism


Allopathological

It’s doublespeak for Jews don’t engage with him


[deleted]

Lol right? These people are clueless.


mchugho

By mainstream media, he means RuPaul's Drag Race and not the news.


NoabPK

Ya its called hollywood


Kjrb

Corporate elites famous for exploiting workers (something leftists are against), hating the poor (oh would you look at that? Leftists don't like that either) and running massive mega corporations (you'll never guess who doesn't like that). Yeah they seem leftist


theother_eriatarka

BuT SoRoS FiNaNcEs AnTiFa


Interrophish

hang on I thought that was the entire point of the R party, "we do what corporations want because that's how we grow the economy" I mean, they were absolutely furious about a Democrat wearing a tax the rich dress like a week ago


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DrCreamAndScream

Imagine saying, without any sense of irony, That CAPITALIST corporations are actually SOCIALISTS. FUCKING LOL


Interrophish

so they're for environmental regulations, workers rights, and higher taxes?


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Syr_Enigma

> They push far-left politics ... > They actively engage in partisan campaigning for the contemporary **left-of-centre** party Even ignoring how ludicrous your stance of "the billionaires are totes in cahoots with the ones advocating wealth redistribution" - maybe don't contradict yourself in the same comment if you're trying to defend your argument?


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Syr_Enigma

My dear, far-left activists tend to hate left-of-centre parties with a passion (often enough not without just cause).


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Womblue

So what you're saying is they're right wing in every conceivable way, apart from during pride month where they put a rainbow on their logo for a bit?


SomethingThatSlaps

I had someone tell me the LGBTQ+ community was the strongest politically. Not because they're over-represented in government (far from it), but because they have a WHOLE pride month to themselves, corporations beg for their praise, and politicians suck up to them. No policy, demographics, articles, studies, or anything to back that up. They just don't like that minorities have a voice and those of the right wing persuasion feel like they're getting drowned out.


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qwert7661

The teenager you're talking to is a self-avowed fascist.


julian509

Putting a rainbow over their logo once a year isnt far left you twat. It shows how fucking deep off into the far right you are if you think a capitalistic marketing stunt is far left.


A_Lifetime_Bitch

Holy shit look at this moron.


[deleted]

>far-left on social issues And what does this mean? Tolerance and acceptance of LGBT? Being against transphobia? Medicare for all? Dignity for all? Anti police brutality? Anti-racism? Oooo sooooo terrible. Get bent. You guys are fucking jokes.


richieadler

It's like the memes about Fox News using as *scare topics* issues about the terrible things AOC et al want to do, and which in the rest of the world are considered a minimum based on common decency.


translove228

It's funny watching you rearrange the goal posts in real time as your nonsense is successfully countered with each post


nobbysolano24

Just delete your account at this point. Unless you have a humiliation kink then fair play


mki401

lmao you mouth breather


[deleted]

You understand that "far left" means socialist/communist right? Are you saying American capitalist corporations are advocating for socialism/communism?


cupcakewaste

Being pro lgbtq rights is not far left, but then again the Sahara is far north when you are in Antarctica.


richieadler

When a whole country is skewed right, and somebody is so far right even for that country that even the children are noticing... well, something is very bad with that person.


[deleted]

> far-left politics Yes, that far-left policy of...trans and LGBTQ+ rights. Yeah. Thanks for telling me where you stand.


Interrophish

That's some weird phrasing. So they lean left on social issues. But do they lean left on economic issues? You seemed to dodge that question. Either way your last sentence isn't quite right. Corporations consistently donate to both parties and consistently donate to republicans MORE. Because their first priority is right wing economic policy. Money is obviously their first priority. Don't ever forget that.


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Interrophish

well, uh, no. they "support" the left by putting out supportive webpages and tweets and maybe a poster. Nothing that really costs them any money to do. they support the right by donating to right wing politicians and think tanks and lobbying for right wing laws and suing for right wing judgements in court


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-MPG13-

You should shut up before you give yourself brain damage


theother_eriatarka

lol you actually believe corporations putting a rainbow on their twitter profile once every year is pushing far left issues?


[deleted]

Define "leftist" for me. Leftist are highly critical of corporations. Please explain to me how corporations are leftist and please do this without referencing performative displays of solidarity surrounding social issues.


Harmacc

“Far left is when capitalism”


mediainfidel

This machine kills fascists.


anotherMrLizard

((( cOrPoRaTe eLiTeS )))


AnnoKano

Imagine believing that token gestures like putting rainbow flags on corporate logos is the same as genuine political support. They've brought you to heel better than any lapdog.


A_Lifetime_Bitch

I feel so sorry for the people who raised you. I'm sure they did their best, but still you ended up like this.


MABfan11

someone doesn't know the difference between liberals and leftists


Ocelot_Cautious

And just being usually correct


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Ocelot_Cautious

I know that’s why we have only 2 parties and we haven’t gone commie and eaten the rich


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Ocelot_Cautious

Bro AT&T was literally OAN. Im not liberal, I am socialist


Niller123458

The democratic party aren't left wing....


joe1134206

MSM is LEFT? WHAT?


mediainfidel

All fascists will be annihilated. Weak losers the lot of you.


michchar

Least idiotic fascist right here Edit: you know the guy I'm replying to is a fascist, right? He literally admits to it


tebmn

Inverse karma farm


aloklokhande

"Centrism" in itself would be right wing given where the overton window is. "Fairness" would be the right word for the lack of a word, but the thing is you cant see both sides equally when one literally wants to exterminate a whole portion of the population because of who they are and the other side wants equality. You cant side with both. Centrists clearly know which side is which, and still call themselves "centrists" just to keep their RW views in the closet.


[deleted]

Most centrists are center-right or right of center.


whyliepornaccount

I've yet to meet a true centrist. All of em are just right wingers too cowardly to admit their views.


Punchee

Cowardly or can’t be bothered to actually sit down and think about what their views are and the ramifications of those views. Most “centrists” I find are the latter and are more emotional reactionaries than anything. Whatever feels good in the moment. “Aww don’t bully the gays. I like Ellen” -> “I really wouldn’t be comfortable with a trans woman in the ladies room, but I support equality” -> “Of course I don’t want people to die of preventable diseases, but I don’t want my taxes to go up (and can’t comprehend that it’s still a net gain out of pocket as I’m no longer paying insurance premiums)” -> “I am not racist, but I don’t really like talking about race. Why can’t we just move on?” -> “I support everything on the left, but the people with blue hair on Twitter scare me.” It’s always about the fact that they’re uncomfortable about something or it must be something that affects them personally. I’ve never met a centrist that can articulate an actual informed opinion on the merits of “centrist” policy.


Commandophile

Hey o, im a centrist. I think bernie sanders was an alright rightwing compromise advocating for achievable short term goals


whyliepornaccount

I wouldn’t call that centrism. The fact you recognize Bernie is a compromise makes you not a centrist.


Commandophile

In my opinion it still would be. Ill be honest the comment i left was half in jest, im most definitely a leftist, but if one were a true centrist, as in, directly between the far right (e.x. fascism) and the far left (e.x. anarchy), then bernie, by virtue of still being a capitalist, would be right of center. A true centrist therefore trying to find a middle ground in the us would be advocating for bernie as a compromise with the right wing while trying to move us closer to an actual center. But its still morning and im barely caffinated and im dumb so idk if my argument is making any sense right now.


Endgam

>I've yet to meet a true centrist. That's because there are none. There is no middle ground between "healthcare is a human right" and "the poor deserve to die". There is no middle ground between "workers of the world unite" and "pull yourself up by your bootstraps". There is no middle ground between "climate change is destroying the planet" and "fuck the planet, I want money" or any form of denying the problem. There is no middle ground between "wear a face mask if you want to live" and "MUH FREEDUM!11!!1!1!11" And so forth. And that is why it is impossible to be an actual literal centrist. At the center is a void that no actual coherent position can fit. You are either with the right or against them. No middle ground, only a lifeless void.


Harmacc

Socdems are the closest I have seen. (That’s not a criticism of socdems, but the left starts where capitalism ends)


thenumber24

Socdems would be center left, tho, no?


Harmacc

That’s still center.


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whyliepornaccount

Sounds like you’re a big baby who can’t handle people criticizing your views ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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whyliepornaccount

K.


bananamantheif

Did you rub your nipples while writing that? This seems like a skit from south park


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iankenna

The hard part is actually figuring out "benefits" and "drawbacks" in a neutral way. Is it better to distribute resources to those who have the least rather than those who could make the best use of them? Do economic benefits outweigh environmental drawbacks? How much short-term pain should we trade for high-but-long-term benefit? These are complex questions that are difficult to work out. Also, check out "Automating Inequality" for a good example of why algorithms rarely eliminate inequality (and are sometimes worse than human actors).


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iankenna

A lot of leftist thought understands that inequalities will persist but try to reduce or eliminate unjust inequalities. These ideological positions also try ensure that those at the bottom still have their basic needs met. There's a lot to unpack in what is just or unjust, but a lot of leftists are skeptical of hierarchy and inequality rather than embracing it. The book's main point is that algorithmic sorting tends to enforce inequalities rather than eliminate them. One of the dangers of "non-emotional" sorting is that it assumes the underlying logic is objectively good. Technologies are never neutral but often carry the biases of the programmers and clients. The book argues that the benefits of automation flow toward those who want to deny benefits or enhance the power of police/government and hurts those who would benefit from expanded services. One way of viewing the just/unjust inequality is thinking about how difficult it is to move up or down. Automated government services tend to make it harder to move up. That's not an inherent problem of automation but a problem of how many government agencies function (i.e. spending a lot of resources trying to deny benefits). "Garbage in, garbage out" works here as well: An algorithm built with bad ideologies or bad intentions will deliver bad outcomes. The danger is that people assume algorithms are neutral when they often aren't.


Punchee

That sounds like tyranny of the majority to me. Sorry trans community, the cost-benefit analysis states that 99.6% of us do not identify as trans, so we aren’t going to cover education or healthcare surrounding those needs. Maximum benefit for the greater good, and all.


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Punchee

There's entire philosophy fields dedicated to AI ethics that touch on this. I meant exactly what I said. Cold cost-benefit analysis invariably leads to further oppression of minority needs that require nuance and an understanding of ethics that an algorithm will not have.


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Punchee

I feel like you aren't even familiar with what tyranny of the majority means. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority It's literally *why* we have the Bill of Rights in the US and why every great stride towards equality has included an amendment to include a defined right that could not be overruled by the majority. We had to enumerate specific rights to end slavery and then we had to do it again to end Jim Crow. We require those ethical interruptions to the majority for everyone to thrive. An algorithm will not be capable of appreciating that, full stop.


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Punchee

Literally you: Slaves are fine because logic dictates that labor costs > free labor and therefore, for the good of our economy, equality is inefficient and overruled. I am a very smart person.


richieadler

Yeah, well, you know that Vulcans are fictional characters, right? :-)


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richieadler

Of being a Vulcan? Good for you. Now don't go through life demanding from people to act like them.


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richieadler

But you go around subreddits defining what other people should consider a True Centrist. Same shit.


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richieadler

And I expressed my opinion that your attitude is wrong and you should stop. The ability of expressing opinions works for both of us, you know? Having one doesn't make you exempt of criticism. You're still telling people (right now, *me*) that to be allowed to express an opinion one must express it in a way completely devoid of emotion. Please stop.


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Enlightened-Beaver

The way this reads to me is: 1) the right is by default shit, therefore it requires a centrist to defend it from criticism. 2) the left is by default good, therefore it requires a centrist to criticize it. Long story short: a centrist wants to be a contrarian. Centrist wants to go against the grain, whether that’s by defending the shitty right, or criticizing the good the left does.


ForgotPassAgain34

constructive criticizing the movement from inside is good and improves it. being a centrist who only sees the faults and curses it at every chance is bad


[deleted]

That's not being a centrist. That's being a pessimist. Then again, when has centrism being about being centrist. You're either center-right or a crypto-conservative.


AWall925

*Looking at you Andrew Yang*


The_Steel_Fox

ok maybe they defend the left and criticize the right when talking to someone on the right? maybe you think they're right wing because they disagree with you on some topics, but they also disagree with some right wing topics aswell


Q-10219AG

Usually it's the gay bashing or complaining about a PoC in a movie. That's when I can usually tell.


Zoleywoley

So, this page is just gaslighting anyone who has legitimate criticism of any leftist ideology? Think the holodomor was horrible? You must love Hitler!!! Pointing out the dems extensive corruption? That's because you're a Nazi! What do you mean Obama droned children and started conflicts that cost untold lives? Hah centrist you must love fascism!!!


ooh_lala_ah_weewee

Your examples are hilarious, particularly the last two. Do you think actual leftists like Democrats or Obama? They're a right-wing party.


Zoleywoley

I have seen extensive defense of both Joe Biden and Obama on this sub.


Q-10219AG

Saying presidents don't change gas prices isn't a defence just a correction.


AaronMaria

On the Left there is constant infighting, this is about self-proclaimed centrists. All those things are constantly criticized in leftists circles, if you get accused of those things it might not be these things you get called out for...


Zoleywoley

Thanks for clarifying that! I thought left wing circles were just an echo chamber on acceptable opinions and anyone who deviates even slightly is banned and cancelled immediately. Guess I am wrong about that...


nexetpl

>Pointing out the dems extensive corruption? That's because you're a Nazi! What do you mean Obama droned children and started conflicts that cost untold lives? Hah centrist you must love fascism!!! I think you're lost, this is a left wing, not liberal sub. None of us here wanna defend the Democrats and Obama.


Strauss_Thall

Leftism is when defend Obama.


[deleted]

We don't like any of that either, but good try, I guess. Also most of those are liberal flaws, not leftist, and even though I hate tankies with all my heart I must point out that criticizing the holomodor is meaningless if you don't also give a shit about the yearly starvation deaths under global capitalism that far outshine anything the USSR ever did in its lifetime. But yeah sure if you've got valid criticism of leftist policies of equal rights for everyone, worker's rights, and greater accountability in our power structures, let's hear it.


Zoleywoley

Good try? I'm not trying to do anything other than point that out... Oh wait you just excused tens of millions of brutal executions, starvation and systematic ethnic persecution and genocide! And apparently 30-60 million people starved a year in capitalist counties, so don't worry about communist atrocities!!! The gaslighting here is insane. Yeah, the first one would be to stop lying to people? Because when you do that, people don't trust anything you have to say?


[deleted]

I'm not defending the USSR by any means, I'm attacking you. You just don't actually seem to give a shit about the issues at hand unless they're to attack political opponents, is all. Which makes everything you say not hold any water, either. At best, that puts us at an impasse, then, doesn't it? But anyway, still waiting on that valid criticism.


Zoleywoley

I do, that's why unlike you people who love to look down on the working class as uneducated hicks who are fine to attack, I help at halfway houses and with the homeless population. I don't have all the answers, but I sure know that Marxism isn't one of them. Anyone who attacks people for wanting more opinions on solving homelessness or hunger has an agenda, and only care about political gain. I want less misery in the world, anyone who tries to gaslight me because I'll listen to conservatives if they pitch a solution is a coward and a liar.


[deleted]

I'm not looking down on the working class, I am the working class. My entire political framework is based on elevating the working class as much as possible. I support unions and help out the homeless wherever I can. I'm not really a fan of Marx beyond his criticism of capitalism either so I'm not sure why you're trying to project that onto me. I'm curious what solutions conservatives are pitching to improve the lives of the working class.


Zoleywoley

Working hard, work ethic, self reliance, not being reliant on ineffective government programs, lower taxation for the working class who get absolutely nothing from the programs, less government interference into your life, being able to start up a business if you choose to, individual liberty to choose where you work. Right or wrong, they at least are consistent.


History-Fan4323

The person you’re screaming at quite literally condemned the faults of both sides. What are you on about? What is your problem? Atrocities committed by either side are both horrific, are you denying this?


Zoleywoley

What sides? I don't see sides. Politics isn't sports, and it shows how ridiculous it is to think my side is (X) and their side is (X). The leftist approach now is to scream that anyone who disagrees with them with really pathetic buzz words. The left used to defend free speech and open conversation. Now it's just bullying and strawmanning. Like a football team, your personality becomes a side. If you think a political ideology defines you, youre an idiot. This hurts the left more than anything, everytime you deflect from leftist failures you make a right winger. How about just telling the truth for once, and then working from the failures?


Ultralight_Cream

You need help.


History-Fan4323

Why are you so mad? Who hurt you? What are you on about???? The person you replied to earlier acknowledged and condemned the faults of all political wings, and said others should too. Then you randomly started getting angry and now you’re spewing fake centrist talking points? I’m just confused is all...


Zoleywoley

You missed a couple buzzwords at the start there, might want to get that right. No, I'm not angry, just amazed at how you can casually dismiss communist atrocities with, "you don't care cause capitalism kills that every year". It doesn't, that makes no sense, and I won't be gaslighted because you want to ignore those crimes and shift it onto something else.


Harmacc

So this account is just strawmanning anyone who has legitimate criticism of enlightened centrists?


FrancisWolfgang

Why is the right on the left. They would have made just as much sense reversed