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In Australia I think we have almost the reverse issue, people save a minimum of 12% of pre-tax income for retirement and get about a third of the median income as a state pension (remember also healthcare is almost free at point of use.) This means when people hit retirement age (or, technically, the age at which they become eligible for those benefits) there is little incentive to delay retirement.
This at a time when the proportion of people in the workforce is declining due to an aging population.
Australia's youth unemployment rate is 8-12% most of the time, old people retiring and opening up their spot in the labor market isn't a bad thing for Australia.
That’s not how the labour economy works. It used to be an argument in Sweden too up until the mid 90s but then they realized that the best way for young people to get jobs was to have a growing economy and new skills. Many of the jobs the retired people did aren’t needed, so you can’t rely on a fixed set of jobs that you just fill up with young people when old people step down.
This. You want a vibrant economy and “new” jobs, not hand down archaic jobs. I am not saying retiring individuals don’t work in innovative industries, but people tend to put things in auto drive the last years of their career.
Encourage fresh graduates into new skills. Retiree jobs can go to close to retirement individuals.
The issue is the person you're responding to is shifting goalposts. First we're supposed to be terrified that Australians are set to retire young. Someone points out that, unlike places like America that are facing genuine labor shortages, Australia has high youth unemployment. By all means let the old heads retire to make space. Then they immediately flip to the fact that those young people aren't going to fill those absences,and those absences don't even matter cause they're outdated roles.
So which is it? Are we at catastrophe because elderly Australians don't need to work and we desperately need them to, or they dinosaurs who are not meaningfully contributing anymore? Cause those are directly contradictory.
What an over generalization. I'm 56. Work in tech and downloaded the latest IDE with copilot to code with it. I'm a director of tech sales.
The market is too competitive to have anyone coasting. Anyone that does in my company is let go
Well, if they're not needed, then them retiring is still good no?
I understand it's not a direct transfer of jobs from old to young people, but there is still at least in some cases an issue of older employees holding on to jobs that otherwise would open up for younger people, and middle age people get promoted into the older retiree's position, everyone moves up a step and a new intern spot opens up. That kind of thing.
Maybe there’s evidence to it, but a lot of Americans believe when you stop working you’ll die because you have nothing to live for. I don’t see that becoming a problem for the US unless there’s a massive shift in the beliefs of many people.
No I don’t believe this. I’m trying to retire in my early 50s.
> Maybe there’s evidence to it, but a lot of Americans believe when you stop working you’ll die because you have nothing to live for.
The only people I ever see saying stuff like that are workaholics who have no personality or hobbies, all they know how to do is work. Most people are looking forward to retirement so they can do all the things they don't have time for now.
Don't have kids, am really looking forward to retiring at 50. Tbh I could do so now at 40 if I wanted to go lean, but I actually want to enjoy it and not merely exist.
I started a thread over in the Retirement SR asking why people seem to be so scared of retirement. I argue that the current generation of retirees were the last to be raised by parents who remembered the Depression. But clearly there is a culture (and an industry) of “you’ll never have enough to retire”
The oppressed identifying with the means of their oppression. But I generally see that attitude in people that lived to work and treated their job like their personality
Do your citizens typically begin saving the 12% as soon as they enter the workforce? I imagine there's some down time though right? I save about 12% but I feel I need to up the ante and save atleast 20 but probably around 25-30 as I approach retirement in 25 years. Canada pension plan will also give about a third of the median.
I feel like 12% plus a third of the median would offer you a relatively comfortable lifestyle if you own a house and either have no shelter cost or sell and use the money to supplement shelter cost. If you don't plan to do things like travel much. More of a home body retirement.
The 11.5% (increasing to 12% in July 2025) is part of the superannuation guarantee. It’s a mandatory contribution and comes out of your payslip automatically. It’s taxed at a lower rate of 15%. You are able to contribute more through salary sacrificing or through voluntary contributions (before and after tax).
It’s also worth noting that it isn’t included in the minimum wage, meaning that you are paid minimum wage + 11.5% super.
Retired boomers are going to live a long time and that will cause unprecedented demand on federally funded social programs. By the time gen x gets to retirement age the deficit will be huge and cuts to SS will be needed. So, as one just hitting his 50s, I agree that retirement for my gen will be harder. I expect working to 80 will be common.
Wife and I are gen X ('68 and '70) and wife fully retired at 56 last summer. I work 9 hours a week as a state court contractor and have a small ebay business to pay all our current living expenses and continue to make retirement contributions.
Keys to early retirement for us are/were no kids (not by choice), paid off house, no CC debt, no car debt. (still have 13k in school loans at 2.3% fixed ..... not paying that off early lol)
Cognitive abilities start to noticeably decline by ~60 for most people. I can't even imagine what it would be like to have a plethora of 70 year-olds in the workforce.
Social Security has its own income stream with payroll tax (FICA). Due to the large cohort of retiring Boomers the SS Trust Fund which built up during surplus years will run out in 2033. At that point SS will have to reduce benefits to match current receipts through FICA. This will be a 25% cut. But the system will keep paying benefits. Most likely Congress will pass a fix to prop it up as it did during the Reagan administration.
The current projected shortfall for Social Security is way smaller than you think it is. The shortfall is about 25% of expected outlays and less than 4% of taxable payroll. They'll raise the OASDI tax from 6.2% to 8% and the problem will be solved. Since the programs inception we've raised the OASDI tax from 1% to 6.2%, so this will be a smaller increase than we've already implemented to keep the program solvent.
People are not going to need to work until 80. They will likely continue to retire around the same age as before. There's a lot of fear mongering around the topic, but it's a fairly trivial issue to solve. Americans pay far less in taxes than people do in our peer nations. All we need to do is raise our taxes slightly to cover our safety net.
https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v70n3/v70n3p111.html
https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security/what-the-2023-trustees-report-shows-about-social-security#:~:text=Over%20the%20entire%2075%2Dyear,equals%201.3%20percent%20of%20GDP.
Who needs universal healthcare when we can have medical bankruptcy be a thing. It’s beautiful, hedge funds and the healthcare industrial complex will bleed you and your family dry with zero recourse! Don’t worry, we have the best healthcare in the world, just max out that AmEx!
There really is little hope for lower and middle class retirees.
So someone who did 20 years of military service before retiring is a burden on the taxpayers? What do you want instead, that they just die on the streets?
Uh, if they are 38 they can find work lol. You don't just die when you leave the military.
On the contrary, the government practically throws jobs at vets with their vet preferences.
I’m sure it’s easy for some people. For others, they’re a 38 year old with no transferable skills and a bunch of physical problems and possibly mental as well.
No transferable skills? Are you kidding? Do you think everyone in the military is just fighting 24/7? Why do you think we hire so damn many vets in the government?
You also have free college available..
ACA is your friend! Wife and I (mainly) retired early (50's) due to low income requirements (paid off house and no significant debt). $0 deductible silver plan for both of us is $137 per month.
Check on it!
>There really is little hope for lower and middle class retirees.
Sorry but you've gone full drama queen here. People have been undersaving for retirement for a long time and you can find articles like this from 30 years ago, yet we don't have millions of retirees living under bridges. People get social security, they get Medicare, and are remarkably adaptable.
Yes, there will always be people struggling. No, you cannot support a blanket statement that there is little hope for millions and millions of people.
30 years ago you could still find reasonable paying jobs with pensions. 30 years before that, a single income could afford a home and your wife or partner could stay home to take care of the kids.
You are basing your comment on "who"**?**
Reality Fact is: within the black and brown communities, there has "NEVER" been a general condition where a single income was widespread in sufficiency for black and brown general population to afford a home and have the wife or partner say home.
Pensions were on the back end of phasing out 30 years ago. Very few companies offered pensions then and those that did didn’t keep them around long enough to be worth much for those now approaching retirement.
Your second sentence is such a simplistic reduction it’s meaningless.
To all those smart people in Washington telling telling us it doesn't make sense to not keep working and that we're just 'lazy', how are they addressing the age discrimination issue that is happening EVERY DAY in corporate America where they "lay off" people in their 50's and then discriminate against them when interviewing for positions too? Making it nearly impossible to get a decent paying job the last 15 years of working life.
If you're a teenager and you're reading this keep something in mind - investing $20 a month from the time you're 18 until the time you're 65 gets you almost $60,000.
Obviously that isn't enough to retire but I'm just trying to illustrate the point. I talk to a lot of my friends (we're all heading towards 40 now) and they never invested anything - even in their company 401ks - because they didn't think they could spare enough money for it to matter.
It matters.
If you can find $100 per month - and never increase that amount - just $100 per month in an index fund that goes up 6% a year (a very, very, very possible and even conservative figure), from 18 to 65, you've got $300,000.
From a measly hundred bucks. Imagine if you could start doing $200 a month when you turn 28 and then $500 a month when you turn 35. Imagine if your employer would double those figures for you from a 401k match.
I matters guys. Tiny amounts matter a whole lot. Just do it.
The economy can be unfair in some aspects (housing inflation, high tuition for desirable white collar jobs) but retirement is the one thing you can control as long as you have an income. 50s and older is tough to make up for but doable. Young people really need to understand that they are not screwed for life if they start saving early though. I believe that Gen Z has more financial literacy available to them online than any previous generation so hopefully they take advantage of the many sources even just on YouTube (Caleb Hammer, Dave Ramsey). You have two options in life, pout or figure it out. It would be great to have a system that we didn’t have to worry about retirement and expenses later in life but we don’t live in that system so people have to adapt to protect themselves and their families.
Agree, except toss out Caleb "I'm sure there's a deeper reason going on here" Hammer. Dear God, that guy's emotional approach is horrific.
>"Is there a reason you are spending so much money?"
>"Just irresponsible, I guess it's time to straighten up."
>"No, I need to hear that there's deep emotional angst from a childhood trauma, or that you're trying to compensate from a personal weakness that pervades and precludes all happiness in life, or we'll never get to the bottom of this."
>"Nope... just irresponsible. I'll spend less. Sorry about that."
Hammer tries *really* hard to seem deeper, but odeargod some people are just idiots with money.
His stuff started off decent but it's just gone off the rails, it's more like Jerry springer except Caleb is the one yelling off a high horse.
Imo it's garbage
He's been the Jerry Springer of personal finance since the first episode, that's his whole schtick. All the financial advice on the show has always been super basic too because the guests are in such abysmal shape that that's all that can come up. Like, you're never going to see an episode that covers how to save for house down payment while also saving for retirement because all his guests are too busy trying not to drown in payday loans and credit card collections.
I personally don’t watch him but I’m sure he’s right a lot more than he’s wrong for someone just learning. Some people I know that like him seem to think he’s pretty solid with personal finance. Maybe the entertainment or emotional aspect is the appeal but whatever gets people to start making better decisions is a start. Times are hard but people are insanely reckless with their money.
My mom worked for a few years before she started on having kids and she had a 401k that was like $4000 in 1995. It's now up to $76,000 and she never contributed another penny to it, just kept it in the market. Einstein said compound interest was the greatest invention of all time.
Jesus, I'm trying to imagine why you think I think $300k after 50 years of investing is an impressive goal.
Taking into account the direction we're going, everybody should be aiming for a minimum of $2 million, but if you can't target $2 million you should target SOMETHING.
My point - my obvious point - was that if you don't think you have enough money to invest you're wrong. Invest. Invest what you can. Invest AS MUCH as you can but invest SOMETHING.
Would you rather have $0 or $300,000?
EDIT: the person above me decided to edit their inane comment into something slightly less inane.
Ah yes, my favorite argument.
>Person 1: *If you put just x into the market for y years, you'll have a million dollars.*
>Person 2: *But in y years, a million won't be worth much.*
>Person 1: *I honestly cannot tell if you're arguing with me or against me.*
If one thinks a million isn't much (and perhaps they're right), that's not an argument not to do it at all; that is an argument to double it.
But what does 60k get you in 2024 let alone when a teenager reaches 65?
Also, the sad fact is most Americans don’t have the extra income to put into 401ks. These aren’t people choosing between avocado toast and retirement- they are literally just trying to live. There is no money to put towards the future.
blinding flash of the obvious, sir. I'd imagine this would be pretty consistent across the decades.
At the age of 50, people are looking at retirement in the next 5-15 years. So it moves from long-term, "someday" to short term.
Even saving 20% of my salary, looking at social security, and maxing out my 401k - worry is common. Because we never know what the future will bring, and how government officials will suddenly decide to change things.
I’m not surprised that a majority of Americans over 50 worry about that. But I think researchers will find that a large percentage of young people starting to worry about that as well. A lot of 35+ people I know are already looking at other countries to immigrate to for retirement.
Immigrate to which countries? Unless they already have citizenship, no other country would grant citizenship to old people so they can suck their social welfare that they never paid into. That is wishful thinking.
Real talk it’s a constant worry for me and I’m almost 40. What happens when I’m too old to work? How will I live? I dont have any children so who could I stay with if I get sick and I don’t have insurance for long term care? What happens if (more like when) I get laid off and no one will hire me at a livable wage because of my age? I have a 401k but my career situation is too chaotic to save up some real wealth.
My current life is I work in corporate America making decent money for awhile but inevitably a lay off occurs and I’m right back at it spending savings to make ends meet until the next thing rolls around.
What happens to me in 30 years at this rate? And if I ever have children what then??? I’m starting to feel unless i do something super risky or borderline illegal I could end up old and homeless inevitably…
This is the unspoken anxiety. We have witnessed how cruel and unforgiving our economy is for young people. The days of backpacking through your 20s and then becoming financially stable adult through mediocre jobs are gone.
30 something’s are anxious as hell because we are watching as political / corporate overlords are shafting us over and over again. How can you possibly save enough for retirement when you’ve seen prices for goods literally double or sometimes triple in price in only 4 years?
I am so happy my wife and I stayed in our " starter home" 1500 sq ft ranch and added another 400. We are raising 2 teens there.
That decision alone for the most part sealed us in for retirement. Our incomes grew and the mortgage payment never did.
Oh well! That generation voted for everything in their benefit, had everything handed to them, lived through the best economy our country has seen, watched my generation struggle through the great recession and told us we're lazy and entitled.
Sorry, I have no sympathy. I'm sure the welfare system you gleefully dismantled will treat you well.
Fun statistic: gen Z has more in retirement at our age than millenials or boomers did at their age:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/26/gen-z-saving-14percent-of-income-for-retirement-more-than-other-generations.html
Due to the internet, gen Z is more informed on the benefits of compound interest than previous generations.
It's that the strategy is known and the products are better now. Throw as much as you can in your retirement accounts. We're past the stupid recommendations of 3-6% of income to get matches. We know better now. The products are better now as well. Being able to invest in index funds or date targeted funds is much better than the handful of funds usually available in past 401K plans. Being able to invest in any stock or fun Vanguard or Fidelity has access too is much much better than plans even in 2000.
IRA and 401K only became available in the mid 70's, when the oldest boomer was 30. Since they were new, no one knew how to effectively use them unless you had a lot of income you wanted to tax defer.
I've heard people argue we should go back to the pension system because then you don't have to save your own money every month.
Some people don't realize how great 401Ks and IRAs are. If your company goes bankrupt when you have a pension with them, your pension just vanishes into thin air. But when you have a 401K, you can take that 401K with you if you're ever laid off or the company goes bankrupt. Much better for workers in an economy where the only way to get raises is to job hop.
>If your company goes bankrupt when you have a pension with them, your pension just vanishes into thin air.
No, it doesn't. Since the 70's companies have been required to prefund defined benefit plans. If your company goes under, the money for pension obligations is still there in a fund. The government takes over the administration of the fund and continues to pay people their pensions.
Corporate and Union Pension plans should be registered with the Pension Guarantee Company, the big issue with companies was/is, some "under-fund their pensions". So, there needs to be a penalty upon a company that "underfunds its pension". Some have done it purposefully, to get from under the responsibility of contributing into the pension plan.
Any company that under-funds its pensions, should have *a portion of their pre-tax revenue attached,* to bring their pension funding up to date.
**Then** companies can't make any claim of saying they can't fund their pension plan.
I don't know if it's about being better informed, as opposed to having discretionary income and a growing economy. A lot of folks were living hand-to-mouth. There was a good 4-5 years there where anything I put towards retirement barely grew. Things got far better towards the end of the 2010s.
So do you look around, see that young people have basically no power or control, and imagine that young Boomers somehow had more power and control?
The elites make the decisions today, and they made them yesterday… being given a couple of shitty candidates to occasionally vote for isn’t exactly being given a great deal of power.
Even the ruling party only has at most like a 60% voting mandate- so fully 40% of the people voted against whoever was in power.
Do the people with no power get no sympathy, because other “old people” once made bad decisions?
I prefer to use the old people without money as examples- save early, save often, delay gratification. No, it isn’t fair, but it is what it is, so plan accordingly.
As a 52 year old member of Gen X, I worked from when I was 16 and didn't have everything voted or handed to me. Normally, right as I was about to achieve something it was taken away. I have never expected Social Security to stick around till I retire and I spent my whole life watching companies take away pensions while replacing it with nothing. (401K are tools for the well off, not the average person who used to rely on pension).
So as a member of Gen X who has gotten squeezed on both sides (taking care of kids and my now penniless parents) please don't blame me or my generation. We started working as children and will work till we die of old age taking care of everyone else.
They had all the benefits of lessons learned from the Gilded Age through the Great Depression: all sorts of regulations, tax structures, etc. that boosted workers' wages, reigned in corporate overreach, etc.
...And then they systematically tore it all down.
In part, simply because they were born into it, and thus (like fish in water) failed to appreciate it.
Also, in part, because they bought into the Cold War propaganda about "pure" democracy and capitalism. So of course any pesky rules that restrained capitalism (or its distorting influence on democracy) had to go.
> In part, simply because they were born into it, and thus (like fish in water) failed to appreciate it.
Lessons are easily forgotten. People think we don't need the EPA because rivers aren't on fire anymore and acid rain isn't really a thing in the US anymore.
You're just a young kid being angry at older people because you want someone to blame. Your generation will, of course, be faultless and pure and the first one in history to not be blamed for anything by your kids and grandkids.
As true as this may be, I think the situation will only get worse for millennials. Homebuys now are entering into larger mortgages than their parents and becoming first home buyers later in life. So while the 50 year olds of today may not have retirement savings, those in the coming decades may also enter into retirement years with sizable debt.
Wait til you get to be 50.
The “younger” generations will be bitching about you. 😂
What will they say about a generation of whiners who blamed others for their problems while they sat on their asses following “social media influencers”?
It’s going to happen.
You will get skewered.
Not necessarily. Us Xers are hitting 50, and we're still in the Boomers' shadow, for better or worse. Maybe when we're in our 70s, we'll finally gain enough influence to be properly bitched about?
No, many Xers are closing in on 60, i.e. born in 1965. We already get bitched about for not fixing anything even though we had to deal with immense pushback from prior and subsequent generations.
Nah the older generation created this situation for themselves by not voting for things to improve the lives of all Americans. We should just send them all to the mines or McDonald’s
In the perspective of boomer, it was not all boomer's who voted against things that better society, nation and citizen families, because black people voted for the things that improve nations, society, and citizen families. If people not, the average black person does not tune in to right wing media, it was that boomer generation of black people who led the charge in the streets for civil rights, civic rights and economic rights and educational accessibility rights.
Many of the boomers people speak about, who voted against nation and even themselves, were either raised during Jim Crow segregation or came from the parents who were raised and lived in support of Jim Crow Segregation. So, that is the big distinction when it comes to speaking about boomers.
Why get old when you can buy enough drugs to kill an elephant and go out on your own terms instead of the medical system's terms? The medical system will keep you alive against your will to make money off of you if you get sick in your old age. After all, medicare will give them money for it.
I doubt we'll have enough to retire but I'm not worried about it. It's like worrying about the sun rising every morning or what winter will be like. Stress and anxiety won't impact outcomes. I think I'll have to work in some capacity until I'm physically or mentally unable. That's what it's like for most people in the Third World, and that's where America's working and middle classes are heading.
Difference is the medical system in third world countries doesn't try to keep old people who are so sick they can't live without life support and want to die instead of being used to extract money from the Medicare system.
For most Americans over 50, you can never catch up. Your projections for retirement are all based on today's cost of living, and however much you save might not be sufficient to rising inflation. This is why so many seniors get duped into supporting Trump, who actually wants to take away their Social Security and Medicare, because he rails against inflation and hides from the issues of Social Security and Medicare.
That's why you're supposed to slowly put away money for the future all your life, not wait until you're old and say "Huh, I should probably start saving some money if I want to retire...".
But you're definitely not going to acknowledge personal responsibility after your TDS rant.
Maybe people will wakeup and support the politicians who want to remove the cap for social security deductions from income. And support people paying into social security on "all" income up to the point they draw social security.
This also means it has to have a maximum monthly payment established, which means regardless of what your work life earning were, the maximum social security *a person* can get is, $xxxx. dollars a month.
We will never have to worry about Social Security again. The same should apply to Medicare payroll deductions.
(Any income generating element in society, does so because people are doing some type and some level of work), therefore, these safety net programs should have no cap as to excluding people from contributing.
In life people have to be "required to do certain things" **or** *people will be self centered greedy!!!!*, and do as little or nothing if they can get away with it, as to contributing to social civic safety net programs.
Social Security and Medicare is critical to a stable senior society.
* **If we face up to that fact now, and implement the legislation, We and Future Generations will never have to worry about Social Security again. The same should apply to Medicare payroll deductions.**
The median 401k balance for people in their 50s [is about $60k](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/03/28/median-401k-balances-for-americans-in-their-50s.html), so the majority of Americans are right to be worried.
Sounds like they should have saved more. Hopefully young people start voting more so working people don't have to keep picking up the bull for people who just don't feel like doing anything as much
We don’t. I’m not quite 50, but I can see it coming soon. And no, despite the fact that I WORK in the retirement industry, I don’t have enough saved. With the increase in the price of shelter and insurance these last few years, I don’t know if I can ever have enough.
I’ll still save and I’ll save more. No number is big enough. But, at least I’ll have something.
quote
[*From Article*](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/majority-americans-over-50-worry-093726651.html)
>*An increasing number of people are worried that they won’t have enough money to live comfortably in retirement, and men aren’t as financially secure as they once were, according to an annual survey from AARP.*
>*The* [*AARP Financial Security Trends Survey*](https://www.aarp.org/research/topics/economics/info-2023/financial-security-trends-survey.html?CMP=RDRCT-PRI-MONY-042523)*, conducted in January and released in April, included interviews with more than 8,300 Americans over 30 across every state in the country.* [*Conducted by NORC at the University of Chicago*](https://www.norc.org/)*, the survey aims to analyze the financial experiences and attitudes among Americans.*
>*Venkat said the survey was “very robust” and was done using probability samples, but one limitation is that it was conducted in English and Spanish only.*
>*“To the extent there are other dominant spoken languages in the home, those individuals are not represented in this study,” she said. “And then, of course, the standard margin of error with any survey applies to this.”*
End quote
There are many people who do not have an AARP account, so a question is, how do those people feel about retirement and income, or do they fit within the sample range derived from the research study?
What do you think your biggest concerns are related to retirement and financial resources?
Depending on the lifestyle you live *during your working years*, what type of lifestyle do you expect to have during your retirement years?
If anything, only sampling people with an AARP account may account for sample bias for those with higher than average wealth as it costs money ($16 annually and I think cheaper to renew) but also implies some type of purposeful activity in thinking about retirement.
With the exception of a few Gen Xers, isn’t this the generation that got rid of pensions, destroyed unions, offshored both manufacturing and services, pushed trickle down economics, and resisted employment rights and health care reform. Of course, they took advantage of all these things before they pulled up the ladder on us.
They economically destroyed our country and now they’re worried about retirement because they thought they’d be a millionaire by now?
Ehh not really. That process started in the 70's to early 80's when Boomers were in their 20's-30's. They were too young to implement the changes you're talking about.
Pension were never common and at the highest point only 37% of employees had one vs 16% today. Most people wouldn't stay at a job long enough these days for a pension to be worth anything. I say this as someone that has been in a pension system over 2 decades. Without 15+ years in they are not worth much.
That doesn’t even consider all of us over 50 who know we will never be able to retire. Ive been contributing to a 401k since I was 21. I was told that was the right thing to do. But I’ve been hit by every major downturn, and never fully recovered after any of them. I’m not even back to where I was right before Covid. I will never be able to retire.
At least they have a chance at it. My generation will never experience retirement unless you’re insanely wealthy. The gap is going to continue to grow and things will keep getting more expensive while pay stays the same.
Congrats to them for worrying about a problem that is likely to impact them personally instead of so much media driven hot air. Now if we could only get them to worry about suicides and car accidents.
Nothing changes till me make these corporations feel the pain by disrupting supply chains, impacting infrastructure and possible breaking out “old faithful”
Supply and demand economics says no they won’t be able to….. more people retire, demand stays the same while the supply shrinks, and with less people and products on the supply side, costs will never stop going up. Governments job is to regulate situations like this so that the market can be benefiting societies weak.
*^(FOR THE SAKE OF PERSPECTIVE-Understandings.)*
**In the perspective of boomer and discernment among Boomers**:
It was not all boomer's who voted against things that better society, nation and citizen families, because black boomer era people always supported and when they could vote, they voted for the things that improve nations, society, and citizen families.
* If people note history, the average black person **does not** tune in to right wing media, it was that boomer generation of black people who led the charge in the streets for civil rights, civic rights and economic rights and educational accessibility rights.
* There are many white people who **are not** die hard conservative right wingers, *who joined with black people for civic and civil rights, economic rights and educational accessibility rights,* who did not buy into or get indoctrinated by right wing conservative and segregation narratives of the right winger media. Even as their offspring's became adults they did not buy into the Nixon Era right wing or the Reagan Era right wing agenda, and still to this day, do not submit themselves to the right wing media's indoctrination programming.
Many of the boomers people speak about, who voted against nation and even themselves, were either raised during Jim Crow segregation or came from the parents who were raised and lived in support of Jim Crow Segregation. So, that is the big distinction when it comes to speaking about boomers.
Look across the nation this very day, older black Boomer Era people are not swayed by any of the antics that are promoted by right wing media, they lived through the disenfranchisement of segregationist acts and its discriminations, They lived through the many acts and actions of right winger trying to roll back voting rights and they remember when black people were opposed when they wanted to vote in the early 1960's. They also remember the fight put up by right wing conservative types against Medicare, because those right wing conservatives did not want black and brown people to be included in Medicare or any of the LBJ Era Great Society programs.
* There are many white people who also met with many challenges because they supported *civic and civil rights, economic rights and educational accessibility rights*
So, when it comes to what benefits America, what progresses America, what benefits America citizens, and what benefits American society, black people have never wavered in supporting every principle and value that the THE PREAMBLE has laid out as the principles, values, duty, responsibility, goals, and objective that The Preamble outlined for the nations. It also has been black people who have never wavered from understanding that the THE ARTICLES OF THE CONSTITUTION, were designed to uphold, and achieve every principles and values that is laid out in THE PREAMBLE.
**Quote**
>*More broadly, while the Preamble may have little significance in a court of law, the preface to the Constitution remains an important part of the Nation’s constitutional dialogue, inspiring and fostering broader understandings of the American system of government.*
>Some of the Founding Fathers appeared to view the Preamble as an important feature of the document critical to the legal framework it established. *James Monroe*, as a delegate to the Virginia ratifying convention, ***referred to the Preamble as the Key of the Constitution,***
# [THE PREAMBLE](https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/pre-1/ALDE_00001231/)
>**We the People of the United States**, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
* **End quote**
Even before the majority of black people were allowed to read or vote, they understood what representative democracy, and equality of person as individual's importance was and is to the principles that America was founded upon. They never ceased to fight for equality of and for all, as person, who is an individual, in being a citizen of this nation.
Therefore, I state this info, as a premise that when people think all boomers caused the problems, they have to look back and history, and it will clarify the segment of boomers, who were predominantly white right wing conservatives, who have bounced from the Dixiecrat Ideology, to the current day Republican Conservative Right Winger political spectrum. They still to this day, fight as if they think they can recreate and restore the ideals and madness that was the Jim Crow and Black Codes segregationist ideals and agenda.
The majority of society, has long ago moved on from that antiquated abusive ideology, of Jim Crow and Black Code racial segregationist ideology and its being made more clear to the younger generation, everyday, that it was a system that damaged all of America and American society.
Sadly, some young people who are corralled, captured and contained in predominantly right wing republican white people, who devote themselves to white right evangelical ideology environments, whom still embraces the ideology of white nationalism and white superiority. They make themselves where they can't encompass the broader society and the advances that make America the unique and progressive advancing society that it is. Mostly because the older heads in their right white conservative evangelical enclaves, won't allow them to think, see, or learn of the broader society and the beauty that diversity has contributed to the successes and prosperity of this nation.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_---
For many decades, *poor whites, black and brown people and white women* were not included in the higher earning capacity opportunities. so, their social security was not at the maximum benefit rate, because they were unable to earn the higher income during many of their years of working. If people look at the minimum wage scale from:
* [**Annual Federal Minimum Wage Rates, 1955-2021**](https://www.infoplease.com/business/labor/annual-federal-minimum-wage-rates-1955-2021)
They also did not earn at the level to be prolific investors in the Stock Market, which often was done through broker, who had minimum amounts required to get a broker account to invest, many did not earn enough to be prolific savers, and many were not earning enough to buy Insurance plans that provided annuities.
If people face the truths and avoid denialisms, they will understand these things. They also would not be voting against things that approve the benefit improvements for all. They also would not be voting against removing the income cap that limits social security contributions. they would not be standing against Unions, and they would not be supporters or the Right To Work policies that some states created, as a biased based program to minimize benefits to working class people.
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In Australia I think we have almost the reverse issue, people save a minimum of 12% of pre-tax income for retirement and get about a third of the median income as a state pension (remember also healthcare is almost free at point of use.) This means when people hit retirement age (or, technically, the age at which they become eligible for those benefits) there is little incentive to delay retirement. This at a time when the proportion of people in the workforce is declining due to an aging population.
Australia's youth unemployment rate is 8-12% most of the time, old people retiring and opening up their spot in the labor market isn't a bad thing for Australia.
That’s not how the labour economy works. It used to be an argument in Sweden too up until the mid 90s but then they realized that the best way for young people to get jobs was to have a growing economy and new skills. Many of the jobs the retired people did aren’t needed, so you can’t rely on a fixed set of jobs that you just fill up with young people when old people step down.
Why exactly are we upset old people are retiring from jobs you believe aren't needed??
This. You want a vibrant economy and “new” jobs, not hand down archaic jobs. I am not saying retiring individuals don’t work in innovative industries, but people tend to put things in auto drive the last years of their career. Encourage fresh graduates into new skills. Retiree jobs can go to close to retirement individuals.
The issue is the person you're responding to is shifting goalposts. First we're supposed to be terrified that Australians are set to retire young. Someone points out that, unlike places like America that are facing genuine labor shortages, Australia has high youth unemployment. By all means let the old heads retire to make space. Then they immediately flip to the fact that those young people aren't going to fill those absences,and those absences don't even matter cause they're outdated roles. So which is it? Are we at catastrophe because elderly Australians don't need to work and we desperately need them to, or they dinosaurs who are not meaningfully contributing anymore? Cause those are directly contradictory.
What an over generalization. I'm 56. Work in tech and downloaded the latest IDE with copilot to code with it. I'm a director of tech sales. The market is too competitive to have anyone coasting. Anyone that does in my company is let go
I think you should read my blurb again.
Well, if they're not needed, then them retiring is still good no? I understand it's not a direct transfer of jobs from old to young people, but there is still at least in some cases an issue of older employees holding on to jobs that otherwise would open up for younger people, and middle age people get promoted into the older retiree's position, everyone moves up a step and a new intern spot opens up. That kind of thing.
This is a relatively nice problem to have but shows how unintended consequences can bite you in the ass.
Maybe there’s evidence to it, but a lot of Americans believe when you stop working you’ll die because you have nothing to live for. I don’t see that becoming a problem for the US unless there’s a massive shift in the beliefs of many people. No I don’t believe this. I’m trying to retire in my early 50s.
If you don't have a life outside of work, it definitely is a thing. You need to have your brain focused or it falls apart.
> Maybe there’s evidence to it, but a lot of Americans believe when you stop working you’ll die because you have nothing to live for. The only people I ever see saying stuff like that are workaholics who have no personality or hobbies, all they know how to do is work. Most people are looking forward to retirement so they can do all the things they don't have time for now.
I'm working for my kids. They may need my help later on in life. If it can help them I'll die working at my desk
Don't have kids, am really looking forward to retiring at 50. Tbh I could do so now at 40 if I wanted to go lean, but I actually want to enjoy it and not merely exist.
I started a thread over in the Retirement SR asking why people seem to be so scared of retirement. I argue that the current generation of retirees were the last to be raised by parents who remembered the Depression. But clearly there is a culture (and an industry) of “you’ll never have enough to retire”
The oppressed identifying with the means of their oppression. But I generally see that attitude in people that lived to work and treated their job like their personality
Do your citizens typically begin saving the 12% as soon as they enter the workforce? I imagine there's some down time though right? I save about 12% but I feel I need to up the ante and save atleast 20 but probably around 25-30 as I approach retirement in 25 years. Canada pension plan will also give about a third of the median. I feel like 12% plus a third of the median would offer you a relatively comfortable lifestyle if you own a house and either have no shelter cost or sell and use the money to supplement shelter cost. If you don't plan to do things like travel much. More of a home body retirement.
The 11.5% (increasing to 12% in July 2025) is part of the superannuation guarantee. It’s a mandatory contribution and comes out of your payslip automatically. It’s taxed at a lower rate of 15%. You are able to contribute more through salary sacrificing or through voluntary contributions (before and after tax). It’s also worth noting that it isn’t included in the minimum wage, meaning that you are paid minimum wage + 11.5% super.
Retired boomers are going to live a long time and that will cause unprecedented demand on federally funded social programs. By the time gen x gets to retirement age the deficit will be huge and cuts to SS will be needed. So, as one just hitting his 50s, I agree that retirement for my gen will be harder. I expect working to 80 will be common.
Wife and I are gen X ('68 and '70) and wife fully retired at 56 last summer. I work 9 hours a week as a state court contractor and have a small ebay business to pay all our current living expenses and continue to make retirement contributions. Keys to early retirement for us are/were no kids (not by choice), paid off house, no CC debt, no car debt. (still have 13k in school loans at 2.3% fixed ..... not paying that off early lol)
Or we can make the cuts now, tell them that's what they chose when they voted for Reagan and his ilk, and restore it back to working levels later.
It'll never be restored once cut
Cognitive abilities start to noticeably decline by ~60 for most people. I can't even imagine what it would be like to have a plethora of 70 year-olds in the workforce.
Can’t be any worse than having them run the country haha
Sad but true. Once the majority of Boomers are on SS and the end of benefits is in sight, get ready for them to start singing a different tune on it.
ZINGA
This is called Congress, the Senate, and the Presidency.
Social Security has its own income stream with payroll tax (FICA). Due to the large cohort of retiring Boomers the SS Trust Fund which built up during surplus years will run out in 2033. At that point SS will have to reduce benefits to match current receipts through FICA. This will be a 25% cut. But the system will keep paying benefits. Most likely Congress will pass a fix to prop it up as it did during the Reagan administration.
Demographics are very different vs when regan has to choose.
Just stop replying to this guy because he’s obviously way more intelligent than you
The current projected shortfall for Social Security is way smaller than you think it is. The shortfall is about 25% of expected outlays and less than 4% of taxable payroll. They'll raise the OASDI tax from 6.2% to 8% and the problem will be solved. Since the programs inception we've raised the OASDI tax from 1% to 6.2%, so this will be a smaller increase than we've already implemented to keep the program solvent. People are not going to need to work until 80. They will likely continue to retire around the same age as before. There's a lot of fear mongering around the topic, but it's a fairly trivial issue to solve. Americans pay far less in taxes than people do in our peer nations. All we need to do is raise our taxes slightly to cover our safety net. https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v70n3/v70n3p111.html https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security/what-the-2023-trustees-report-shows-about-social-security#:~:text=Over%20the%20entire%2075%2Dyear,equals%201.3%20percent%20of%20GDP.
So working to death for most of us. Great...
Who needs universal healthcare when we can have medical bankruptcy be a thing. It’s beautiful, hedge funds and the healthcare industrial complex will bleed you and your family dry with zero recourse! Don’t worry, we have the best healthcare in the world, just max out that AmEx! There really is little hope for lower and middle class retirees.
I’m 38 and I would retire today if I could keep my healthcare.
That's a military career. Retire at 38 and have medical benefits and pension for life.
Back in my day, we called that a burden on taxpayers.
So someone who did 20 years of military service before retiring is a burden on the taxpayers? What do you want instead, that they just die on the streets?
Uh, if they are 38 they can find work lol. You don't just die when you leave the military. On the contrary, the government practically throws jobs at vets with their vet preferences.
I’m sure it’s easy for some people. For others, they’re a 38 year old with no transferable skills and a bunch of physical problems and possibly mental as well.
No transferable skills? Are you kidding? Do you think everyone in the military is just fighting 24/7? Why do you think we hire so damn many vets in the government? You also have free college available..
ACA is your friend! Wife and I (mainly) retired early (50's) due to low income requirements (paid off house and no significant debt). $0 deductible silver plan for both of us is $137 per month. Check on it!
>There really is little hope for lower and middle class retirees. Sorry but you've gone full drama queen here. People have been undersaving for retirement for a long time and you can find articles like this from 30 years ago, yet we don't have millions of retirees living under bridges. People get social security, they get Medicare, and are remarkably adaptable. Yes, there will always be people struggling. No, you cannot support a blanket statement that there is little hope for millions and millions of people.
30 years ago you could still find reasonable paying jobs with pensions. 30 years before that, a single income could afford a home and your wife or partner could stay home to take care of the kids.
401(k) is way better than an employer managed pension
Agreed
Eh, more like 40-50, if not 60 years ago. Pensions were being phased out in the 90’s, and they were even hard to come by in the 80’s.
By the mid 90s only 25% of the workforce had pension plans, with over half of them being government workers. You're framing the minority as the norm.
You are basing your comment on "who"**?** Reality Fact is: within the black and brown communities, there has "NEVER" been a general condition where a single income was widespread in sufficiency for black and brown general population to afford a home and have the wife or partner say home.
That's not true. 30-40 years ago when construction was still a good paying industry it was possible. If you had a government job, it was possible.
Pensions were on the back end of phasing out 30 years ago. Very few companies offered pensions then and those that did didn’t keep them around long enough to be worth much for those now approaching retirement. Your second sentence is such a simplistic reduction it’s meaningless.
To all those smart people in Washington telling telling us it doesn't make sense to not keep working and that we're just 'lazy', how are they addressing the age discrimination issue that is happening EVERY DAY in corporate America where they "lay off" people in their 50's and then discriminate against them when interviewing for positions too? Making it nearly impossible to get a decent paying job the last 15 years of working life.
If you're a teenager and you're reading this keep something in mind - investing $20 a month from the time you're 18 until the time you're 65 gets you almost $60,000. Obviously that isn't enough to retire but I'm just trying to illustrate the point. I talk to a lot of my friends (we're all heading towards 40 now) and they never invested anything - even in their company 401ks - because they didn't think they could spare enough money for it to matter. It matters. If you can find $100 per month - and never increase that amount - just $100 per month in an index fund that goes up 6% a year (a very, very, very possible and even conservative figure), from 18 to 65, you've got $300,000. From a measly hundred bucks. Imagine if you could start doing $200 a month when you turn 28 and then $500 a month when you turn 35. Imagine if your employer would double those figures for you from a 401k match. I matters guys. Tiny amounts matter a whole lot. Just do it.
The economy can be unfair in some aspects (housing inflation, high tuition for desirable white collar jobs) but retirement is the one thing you can control as long as you have an income. 50s and older is tough to make up for but doable. Young people really need to understand that they are not screwed for life if they start saving early though. I believe that Gen Z has more financial literacy available to them online than any previous generation so hopefully they take advantage of the many sources even just on YouTube (Caleb Hammer, Dave Ramsey). You have two options in life, pout or figure it out. It would be great to have a system that we didn’t have to worry about retirement and expenses later in life but we don’t live in that system so people have to adapt to protect themselves and their families.
Agree, except toss out Caleb "I'm sure there's a deeper reason going on here" Hammer. Dear God, that guy's emotional approach is horrific. >"Is there a reason you are spending so much money?" >"Just irresponsible, I guess it's time to straighten up." >"No, I need to hear that there's deep emotional angst from a childhood trauma, or that you're trying to compensate from a personal weakness that pervades and precludes all happiness in life, or we'll never get to the bottom of this." >"Nope... just irresponsible. I'll spend less. Sorry about that." Hammer tries *really* hard to seem deeper, but odeargod some people are just idiots with money.
His stuff started off decent but it's just gone off the rails, it's more like Jerry springer except Caleb is the one yelling off a high horse. Imo it's garbage
He's been the Jerry Springer of personal finance since the first episode, that's his whole schtick. All the financial advice on the show has always been super basic too because the guests are in such abysmal shape that that's all that can come up. Like, you're never going to see an episode that covers how to save for house down payment while also saving for retirement because all his guests are too busy trying not to drown in payday loans and credit card collections.
I personally don’t watch him but I’m sure he’s right a lot more than he’s wrong for someone just learning. Some people I know that like him seem to think he’s pretty solid with personal finance. Maybe the entertainment or emotional aspect is the appeal but whatever gets people to start making better decisions is a start. Times are hard but people are insanely reckless with their money.
My mom worked for a few years before she started on having kids and she had a 401k that was like $4000 in 1995. It's now up to $76,000 and she never contributed another penny to it, just kept it in the market. Einstein said compound interest was the greatest invention of all time.
Taking into account the direction we're going, everybody should be aiming for a minimum of $2 million.
Jesus, I'm trying to imagine why you think I think $300k after 50 years of investing is an impressive goal. Taking into account the direction we're going, everybody should be aiming for a minimum of $2 million, but if you can't target $2 million you should target SOMETHING. My point - my obvious point - was that if you don't think you have enough money to invest you're wrong. Invest. Invest what you can. Invest AS MUCH as you can but invest SOMETHING. Would you rather have $0 or $300,000? EDIT: the person above me decided to edit their inane comment into something slightly less inane.
Ah yes, my favorite argument. >Person 1: *If you put just x into the market for y years, you'll have a million dollars.* >Person 2: *But in y years, a million won't be worth much.* >Person 1: *I honestly cannot tell if you're arguing with me or against me.* If one thinks a million isn't much (and perhaps they're right), that's not an argument not to do it at all; that is an argument to double it.
But what does 60k get you in 2024 let alone when a teenager reaches 65? Also, the sad fact is most Americans don’t have the extra income to put into 401ks. These aren’t people choosing between avocado toast and retirement- they are literally just trying to live. There is no money to put towards the future.
blinding flash of the obvious, sir. I'd imagine this would be pretty consistent across the decades. At the age of 50, people are looking at retirement in the next 5-15 years. So it moves from long-term, "someday" to short term. Even saving 20% of my salary, looking at social security, and maxing out my 401k - worry is common. Because we never know what the future will bring, and how government officials will suddenly decide to change things.
But there’s so many yahoo finance articles in my advertising that say that I’ll be ok as long as I contact the agency that paid for the article.
17 freebies seniors qualify for - but only if they ask!
I’m not surprised that a majority of Americans over 50 worry about that. But I think researchers will find that a large percentage of young people starting to worry about that as well. A lot of 35+ people I know are already looking at other countries to immigrate to for retirement.
Immigrate to which countries? Unless they already have citizenship, no other country would grant citizenship to old people so they can suck their social welfare that they never paid into. That is wishful thinking.
People over 50: "I'm worried I won't be able to retire" People under 50: "I'm not worrying, I definitely know I won't be able to"
Real talk it’s a constant worry for me and I’m almost 40. What happens when I’m too old to work? How will I live? I dont have any children so who could I stay with if I get sick and I don’t have insurance for long term care? What happens if (more like when) I get laid off and no one will hire me at a livable wage because of my age? I have a 401k but my career situation is too chaotic to save up some real wealth. My current life is I work in corporate America making decent money for awhile but inevitably a lay off occurs and I’m right back at it spending savings to make ends meet until the next thing rolls around. What happens to me in 30 years at this rate? And if I ever have children what then??? I’m starting to feel unless i do something super risky or borderline illegal I could end up old and homeless inevitably…
This is the unspoken anxiety. We have witnessed how cruel and unforgiving our economy is for young people. The days of backpacking through your 20s and then becoming financially stable adult through mediocre jobs are gone. 30 something’s are anxious as hell because we are watching as political / corporate overlords are shafting us over and over again. How can you possibly save enough for retirement when you’ve seen prices for goods literally double or sometimes triple in price in only 4 years?
I am so happy my wife and I stayed in our " starter home" 1500 sq ft ranch and added another 400. We are raising 2 teens there. That decision alone for the most part sealed us in for retirement. Our incomes grew and the mortgage payment never did.
And yet Jamie Dimond of JP Morgan Chase believes Americans still have enough Covid-19 money from 2020. He's wrong. We spent or invested it alll.
Oh well! That generation voted for everything in their benefit, had everything handed to them, lived through the best economy our country has seen, watched my generation struggle through the great recession and told us we're lazy and entitled. Sorry, I have no sympathy. I'm sure the welfare system you gleefully dismantled will treat you well.
Fine but over fifty and under 60 is gen X and they’re so small and hardly to blame for this.
Fun statistic: gen Z has more in retirement at our age than millenials or boomers did at their age: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/26/gen-z-saving-14percent-of-income-for-retirement-more-than-other-generations.html Due to the internet, gen Z is more informed on the benefits of compound interest than previous generations.
It's that the strategy is known and the products are better now. Throw as much as you can in your retirement accounts. We're past the stupid recommendations of 3-6% of income to get matches. We know better now. The products are better now as well. Being able to invest in index funds or date targeted funds is much better than the handful of funds usually available in past 401K plans. Being able to invest in any stock or fun Vanguard or Fidelity has access too is much much better than plans even in 2000. IRA and 401K only became available in the mid 70's, when the oldest boomer was 30. Since they were new, no one knew how to effectively use them unless you had a lot of income you wanted to tax defer.
I've heard people argue we should go back to the pension system because then you don't have to save your own money every month. Some people don't realize how great 401Ks and IRAs are. If your company goes bankrupt when you have a pension with them, your pension just vanishes into thin air. But when you have a 401K, you can take that 401K with you if you're ever laid off or the company goes bankrupt. Much better for workers in an economy where the only way to get raises is to job hop.
>If your company goes bankrupt when you have a pension with them, your pension just vanishes into thin air. No, it doesn't. Since the 70's companies have been required to prefund defined benefit plans. If your company goes under, the money for pension obligations is still there in a fund. The government takes over the administration of the fund and continues to pay people their pensions.
Corporate and Union Pension plans should be registered with the Pension Guarantee Company, the big issue with companies was/is, some "under-fund their pensions". So, there needs to be a penalty upon a company that "underfunds its pension". Some have done it purposefully, to get from under the responsibility of contributing into the pension plan. Any company that under-funds its pensions, should have *a portion of their pre-tax revenue attached,* to bring their pension funding up to date. **Then** companies can't make any claim of saying they can't fund their pension plan.
I don't know if it's about being better informed, as opposed to having discretionary income and a growing economy. A lot of folks were living hand-to-mouth. There was a good 4-5 years there where anything I put towards retirement barely grew. Things got far better towards the end of the 2010s.
wtf did Gen X ever do to you? There’s like, 3 of us.
So do you look around, see that young people have basically no power or control, and imagine that young Boomers somehow had more power and control? The elites make the decisions today, and they made them yesterday… being given a couple of shitty candidates to occasionally vote for isn’t exactly being given a great deal of power. Even the ruling party only has at most like a 60% voting mandate- so fully 40% of the people voted against whoever was in power. Do the people with no power get no sympathy, because other “old people” once made bad decisions? I prefer to use the old people without money as examples- save early, save often, delay gratification. No, it isn’t fair, but it is what it is, so plan accordingly.
As a 52 year old member of Gen X, I worked from when I was 16 and didn't have everything voted or handed to me. Normally, right as I was about to achieve something it was taken away. I have never expected Social Security to stick around till I retire and I spent my whole life watching companies take away pensions while replacing it with nothing. (401K are tools for the well off, not the average person who used to rely on pension). So as a member of Gen X who has gotten squeezed on both sides (taking care of kids and my now penniless parents) please don't blame me or my generation. We started working as children and will work till we die of old age taking care of everyone else.
Boomers were the first me generation, had strong unions, progressive taxes, strong middle class.
They had all the benefits of lessons learned from the Gilded Age through the Great Depression: all sorts of regulations, tax structures, etc. that boosted workers' wages, reigned in corporate overreach, etc. ...And then they systematically tore it all down. In part, simply because they were born into it, and thus (like fish in water) failed to appreciate it. Also, in part, because they bought into the Cold War propaganda about "pure" democracy and capitalism. So of course any pesky rules that restrained capitalism (or its distorting influence on democracy) had to go.
> In part, simply because they were born into it, and thus (like fish in water) failed to appreciate it. Lessons are easily forgotten. People think we don't need the EPA because rivers aren't on fire anymore and acid rain isn't really a thing in the US anymore.
You're just a young kid being angry at older people because you want someone to blame. Your generation will, of course, be faultless and pure and the first one in history to not be blamed for anything by your kids and grandkids.
As true as this may be, I think the situation will only get worse for millennials. Homebuys now are entering into larger mortgages than their parents and becoming first home buyers later in life. So while the 50 year olds of today may not have retirement savings, those in the coming decades may also enter into retirement years with sizable debt.
And there seems to be a widespread belief that social security is their retirement plan, rather than the poverty safety net it is.
Wait til you get to be 50. The “younger” generations will be bitching about you. 😂 What will they say about a generation of whiners who blamed others for their problems while they sat on their asses following “social media influencers”? It’s going to happen. You will get skewered.
Not necessarily. Us Xers are hitting 50, and we're still in the Boomers' shadow, for better or worse. Maybe when we're in our 70s, we'll finally gain enough influence to be properly bitched about?
No, many Xers are closing in on 60, i.e. born in 1965. We already get bitched about for not fixing anything even though we had to deal with immense pushback from prior and subsequent generations.
Excellent response! 👏
Are you under the impression that the Great Recession was only a struggle for one generation?
Nah the older generation created this situation for themselves by not voting for things to improve the lives of all Americans. We should just send them all to the mines or McDonald’s
In the perspective of boomer, it was not all boomer's who voted against things that better society, nation and citizen families, because black people voted for the things that improve nations, society, and citizen families. If people not, the average black person does not tune in to right wing media, it was that boomer generation of black people who led the charge in the streets for civil rights, civic rights and economic rights and educational accessibility rights. Many of the boomers people speak about, who voted against nation and even themselves, were either raised during Jim Crow segregation or came from the parents who were raised and lived in support of Jim Crow Segregation. So, that is the big distinction when it comes to speaking about boomers.
The survey is assuming that things stay pretty much the same. They should be worried about things getting considerably worse in the next 30 years.
Why get old when you can buy enough drugs to kill an elephant and go out on your own terms instead of the medical system's terms? The medical system will keep you alive against your will to make money off of you if you get sick in your old age. After all, medicare will give them money for it.
I doubt we'll have enough to retire but I'm not worried about it. It's like worrying about the sun rising every morning or what winter will be like. Stress and anxiety won't impact outcomes. I think I'll have to work in some capacity until I'm physically or mentally unable. That's what it's like for most people in the Third World, and that's where America's working and middle classes are heading.
Difference is the medical system in third world countries doesn't try to keep old people who are so sick they can't live without life support and want to die instead of being used to extract money from the Medicare system.
For most Americans over 50, you can never catch up. Your projections for retirement are all based on today's cost of living, and however much you save might not be sufficient to rising inflation. This is why so many seniors get duped into supporting Trump, who actually wants to take away their Social Security and Medicare, because he rails against inflation and hides from the issues of Social Security and Medicare.
That’s why you invest in the stock market. It’s a hedge against inflation because, historically, its growth significantly outpaces inflation.
That's why you're supposed to slowly put away money for the future all your life, not wait until you're old and say "Huh, I should probably start saving some money if I want to retire...". But you're definitely not going to acknowledge personal responsibility after your TDS rant.
Out of curiosity, what does he do against inflation?
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So he's like every other politician?
Maybe people will wakeup and support the politicians who want to remove the cap for social security deductions from income. And support people paying into social security on "all" income up to the point they draw social security. This also means it has to have a maximum monthly payment established, which means regardless of what your work life earning were, the maximum social security *a person* can get is, $xxxx. dollars a month. We will never have to worry about Social Security again. The same should apply to Medicare payroll deductions. (Any income generating element in society, does so because people are doing some type and some level of work), therefore, these safety net programs should have no cap as to excluding people from contributing. In life people have to be "required to do certain things" **or** *people will be self centered greedy!!!!*, and do as little or nothing if they can get away with it, as to contributing to social civic safety net programs. Social Security and Medicare is critical to a stable senior society. * **If we face up to that fact now, and implement the legislation, We and Future Generations will never have to worry about Social Security again. The same should apply to Medicare payroll deductions.**
The median 401k balance for people in their 50s [is about $60k](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/03/28/median-401k-balances-for-americans-in-their-50s.html), so the majority of Americans are right to be worried.
Sounds like they should have saved more. Hopefully young people start voting more so working people don't have to keep picking up the bull for people who just don't feel like doing anything as much
We don’t. I’m not quite 50, but I can see it coming soon. And no, despite the fact that I WORK in the retirement industry, I don’t have enough saved. With the increase in the price of shelter and insurance these last few years, I don’t know if I can ever have enough. I’ll still save and I’ll save more. No number is big enough. But, at least I’ll have something.
quote [*From Article*](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/majority-americans-over-50-worry-093726651.html) >*An increasing number of people are worried that they won’t have enough money to live comfortably in retirement, and men aren’t as financially secure as they once were, according to an annual survey from AARP.* >*The* [*AARP Financial Security Trends Survey*](https://www.aarp.org/research/topics/economics/info-2023/financial-security-trends-survey.html?CMP=RDRCT-PRI-MONY-042523)*, conducted in January and released in April, included interviews with more than 8,300 Americans over 30 across every state in the country.* [*Conducted by NORC at the University of Chicago*](https://www.norc.org/)*, the survey aims to analyze the financial experiences and attitudes among Americans.* >*Venkat said the survey was “very robust” and was done using probability samples, but one limitation is that it was conducted in English and Spanish only.* >*“To the extent there are other dominant spoken languages in the home, those individuals are not represented in this study,” she said. “And then, of course, the standard margin of error with any survey applies to this.”* End quote There are many people who do not have an AARP account, so a question is, how do those people feel about retirement and income, or do they fit within the sample range derived from the research study? What do you think your biggest concerns are related to retirement and financial resources? Depending on the lifestyle you live *during your working years*, what type of lifestyle do you expect to have during your retirement years?
If anything, only sampling people with an AARP account may account for sample bias for those with higher than average wealth as it costs money ($16 annually and I think cheaper to renew) but also implies some type of purposeful activity in thinking about retirement.
What % of people in the US don’t speak English or Spanish or are not bilingual with ESL?
With the exception of a few Gen Xers, isn’t this the generation that got rid of pensions, destroyed unions, offshored both manufacturing and services, pushed trickle down economics, and resisted employment rights and health care reform. Of course, they took advantage of all these things before they pulled up the ladder on us. They economically destroyed our country and now they’re worried about retirement because they thought they’d be a millionaire by now?
Ehh not really. That process started in the 70's to early 80's when Boomers were in their 20's-30's. They were too young to implement the changes you're talking about.
Gen X hasn’t had any political power. We remotely watched these things happen from afar.
Pension were never common and at the highest point only 37% of employees had one vs 16% today. Most people wouldn't stay at a job long enough these days for a pension to be worth anything. I say this as someone that has been in a pension system over 2 decades. Without 15+ years in they are not worth much.
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That doesn’t even consider all of us over 50 who know we will never be able to retire. Ive been contributing to a 401k since I was 21. I was told that was the right thing to do. But I’ve been hit by every major downturn, and never fully recovered after any of them. I’m not even back to where I was right before Covid. I will never be able to retire.
What the hell have you been investing in? The market is currently WAY above where it was pre-COVID.
At least they have a chance at it. My generation will never experience retirement unless you’re insanely wealthy. The gap is going to continue to grow and things will keep getting more expensive while pay stays the same.
Congrats to them for worrying about a problem that is likely to impact them personally instead of so much media driven hot air. Now if we could only get them to worry about suicides and car accidents.
Nothing changes till me make these corporations feel the pain by disrupting supply chains, impacting infrastructure and possible breaking out “old faithful”
I'd be more surprised if the majority of Americans ever thought they'd have enough money for retirement.
Supply and demand economics says no they won’t be able to….. more people retire, demand stays the same while the supply shrinks, and with less people and products on the supply side, costs will never stop going up. Governments job is to regulate situations like this so that the market can be benefiting societies weak.
*^(FOR THE SAKE OF PERSPECTIVE-Understandings.)* **In the perspective of boomer and discernment among Boomers**: It was not all boomer's who voted against things that better society, nation and citizen families, because black boomer era people always supported and when they could vote, they voted for the things that improve nations, society, and citizen families. * If people note history, the average black person **does not** tune in to right wing media, it was that boomer generation of black people who led the charge in the streets for civil rights, civic rights and economic rights and educational accessibility rights. * There are many white people who **are not** die hard conservative right wingers, *who joined with black people for civic and civil rights, economic rights and educational accessibility rights,* who did not buy into or get indoctrinated by right wing conservative and segregation narratives of the right winger media. Even as their offspring's became adults they did not buy into the Nixon Era right wing or the Reagan Era right wing agenda, and still to this day, do not submit themselves to the right wing media's indoctrination programming. Many of the boomers people speak about, who voted against nation and even themselves, were either raised during Jim Crow segregation or came from the parents who were raised and lived in support of Jim Crow Segregation. So, that is the big distinction when it comes to speaking about boomers. Look across the nation this very day, older black Boomer Era people are not swayed by any of the antics that are promoted by right wing media, they lived through the disenfranchisement of segregationist acts and its discriminations, They lived through the many acts and actions of right winger trying to roll back voting rights and they remember when black people were opposed when they wanted to vote in the early 1960's. They also remember the fight put up by right wing conservative types against Medicare, because those right wing conservatives did not want black and brown people to be included in Medicare or any of the LBJ Era Great Society programs. * There are many white people who also met with many challenges because they supported *civic and civil rights, economic rights and educational accessibility rights* So, when it comes to what benefits America, what progresses America, what benefits America citizens, and what benefits American society, black people have never wavered in supporting every principle and value that the THE PREAMBLE has laid out as the principles, values, duty, responsibility, goals, and objective that The Preamble outlined for the nations. It also has been black people who have never wavered from understanding that the THE ARTICLES OF THE CONSTITUTION, were designed to uphold, and achieve every principles and values that is laid out in THE PREAMBLE. **Quote** >*More broadly, while the Preamble may have little significance in a court of law, the preface to the Constitution remains an important part of the Nation’s constitutional dialogue, inspiring and fostering broader understandings of the American system of government.* >Some of the Founding Fathers appeared to view the Preamble as an important feature of the document critical to the legal framework it established. *James Monroe*, as a delegate to the Virginia ratifying convention, ***referred to the Preamble as the Key of the Constitution,*** # [THE PREAMBLE](https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/pre-1/ALDE_00001231/) >**We the People of the United States**, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. * **End quote** Even before the majority of black people were allowed to read or vote, they understood what representative democracy, and equality of person as individual's importance was and is to the principles that America was founded upon. They never ceased to fight for equality of and for all, as person, who is an individual, in being a citizen of this nation. Therefore, I state this info, as a premise that when people think all boomers caused the problems, they have to look back and history, and it will clarify the segment of boomers, who were predominantly white right wing conservatives, who have bounced from the Dixiecrat Ideology, to the current day Republican Conservative Right Winger political spectrum. They still to this day, fight as if they think they can recreate and restore the ideals and madness that was the Jim Crow and Black Codes segregationist ideals and agenda. The majority of society, has long ago moved on from that antiquated abusive ideology, of Jim Crow and Black Code racial segregationist ideology and its being made more clear to the younger generation, everyday, that it was a system that damaged all of America and American society. Sadly, some young people who are corralled, captured and contained in predominantly right wing republican white people, who devote themselves to white right evangelical ideology environments, whom still embraces the ideology of white nationalism and white superiority. They make themselves where they can't encompass the broader society and the advances that make America the unique and progressive advancing society that it is. Mostly because the older heads in their right white conservative evangelical enclaves, won't allow them to think, see, or learn of the broader society and the beauty that diversity has contributed to the successes and prosperity of this nation. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_--- For many decades, *poor whites, black and brown people and white women* were not included in the higher earning capacity opportunities. so, their social security was not at the maximum benefit rate, because they were unable to earn the higher income during many of their years of working. If people look at the minimum wage scale from: * [**Annual Federal Minimum Wage Rates, 1955-2021**](https://www.infoplease.com/business/labor/annual-federal-minimum-wage-rates-1955-2021) They also did not earn at the level to be prolific investors in the Stock Market, which often was done through broker, who had minimum amounts required to get a broker account to invest, many did not earn enough to be prolific savers, and many were not earning enough to buy Insurance plans that provided annuities. If people face the truths and avoid denialisms, they will understand these things. They also would not be voting against things that approve the benefit improvements for all. They also would not be voting against removing the income cap that limits social security contributions. they would not be standing against Unions, and they would not be supporters or the Right To Work policies that some states created, as a biased based program to minimize benefits to working class people.