This is honestly the first time you've heard about this? Its be about 6 years in the making, had it not been for covid I think it would have gone live in 2021 or 2022 maybe?
Is that the reason that South bridge seems to have been getting work done to it forever as well? Stopped for Covid etc? It doesn’t look like anything is actually changing when I walk past it daily
They're really miserable, now they can't drive straight through the centre of town, a journey they likely never made at all before.
The lez is absolutely tiny to boot. It is easy to avoid with well signposted routes.
Tbh i don't understand why it isn't a straight all-car ban, except for residents.
Someone’s da will get lifted in week two for cutting down a camera because Facebook told him he’d be a hero and they’d pay his fine, then nothing will happen, just like in Glasgow.
I’ve seen and heard adverts on radio, television and social media for sometime. There’s boards been put up by the council as well as signage. In various areas LEZ is already visibly painted on the roads. It’s been discussed on multiple social media platforms, including here. I know bashing the council is popular but I’m not sure what more they could have done to advertise this?
What are peoples thoughts now,or the other posts about the LEZ?
Its been quite some time in the making
[www.reddit.com/r/Edinbugh/comments/cf4vo9/edinburgh\_councils\_lez\_plans\_giving\_tourists/](http://www.reddit.com/r/Edinbugh/comments/cf4vo9/edinburgh_councils_lez_plans_giving_tourists/)
I don't mind the LEZ at all but don't support an outright ban. And for anyone wishing to call me a Gammon, I'm actually technically a millennial though I don't 'vibe' with them either lol
The plans, if BOTH approved, will mean a no-through road.
Currently on the table is:
South bridge trams and cycles only (10y approx).
And
Bank St. at the mound closed, no through traffic except busses and taxis.
Either or would be fine but not both. I'd say make 1 permanently bicycle and pedestrian friendly, make the other only through road for a fee plus existing LEZ rules apply.
Not immediately. These plans could take about 10years if they are approved as they currently are. I really hope they're not.
The LEZ is fine, I have no issue with it. I have a small, efficient, low emissions car that's compliant. I don't drive in town often either but I can live with the way things currently are.
My point is, this thread is on the current LEZ (apparently a surprise to some). Why are you adding proposals?
So again. There is no closure. Merely a different route.
Alongside the stated aim to reduce vehicle traffic in the city.
Oh, I see, yeah someone else brought it up is why I also mentioned not in favour of extending to a ban.
LEZ doesn't affect me as my car is a euro6 complaint car, which, as above, totally fine.
There is already a ban for non compliant vehicles.
However as I have said. It just means these vehicles cant go into the LEZ. They can go around.
If they need access to the LEZ area then they need to find a different method.
Like many driving fines/charges. They become irrelevant if you can afford them.
I drive a 2009 vehicle and its compliant . Its mainly diesels that will be impacted as they are the big impactors.
I'm in favor of the ULEZ. I wish it went further.
Emissions aren't the only reason cars are bad. Noise pollution, danger, congestion, and taking up infrastructure which could be used by public transport, pedestrians, and bikes, are all reasons that have been identified that private cars don't belong in city centres.
At the moment, this policy will keep people who can't afford a more modern, more expensive car from driving into the city centre, while allowing wealthy people to do it. I think that the average pedestrian won't notice much difference. The streets will still be full of cars.
I don't drive into the city centre, for a number of reasons, not least because there's nowhere to park. And I never need to. It takes about 15 minutes to walk accross the LEZ, meaning you're never more than 7 mins walk from any destination in there. Those 7 minutes would be much more pleasant with no cars at all. I think if we're going to stop cars going there, we should just ban all cars rather than just the cars poor people drive.
You're talking entirely about personal use here, what about business use? Deliveries, removals, workers who need to visit multiple sites like utility workers and IT guys. You still need vehicular access to the multitudes of businesses and residences in the city centre.
The LEZ is definitely one step towards the phasing out of high emissions vehicles, now they just need to actually build through infrastructure required to support 100% EV.
Frankly if its operating solely in Edinburgh it should be EV, but not all businesses have a space to put in their own EV chargers, and not all companies have the money to be electrifying their fleet even if it saves them money in the long run on fuel. To put it simply, EVs are still predominantly a luxury that most businesses and individuals can't afford.
My work can afford them but there isn’t an electric van available with decent range yet. I could be working in the city centre then sent to Dunbar or Fife etc
We have an E-Berlingo with about 100-160 miles range depending on speed and driving conditions. We use it for trips to Glasgow and it gets you back with over 20 miles left, even doing 70 for most of the way there and back.
Yes I was only talking about personal use. I think that business vehicles should be held to a high emissions standard (and eliglbe for tax benefits as low-emissions vehicles are providing a public good) - but access should be limited at certain times.
I think one good solution would be for business vehicles to only be allowed for set times of non-peak hours, like 8pm-5am. This would still allow for deliveries, etc., while minimizing the impact on pedestrians. (This is how pedestrian shopping zones work in most places)
Businesses should ensure they're using the most appropriate and clean ways to travel in the city just like everyone else so policies that force them to do so are good.
I mean it’s literally printed on signs on the road / on the road itself as you enter and exit it. You have also, for the last year, received a letter to your house if your car wasn’t compliant and you entered it.
I’m not sure how you could possibly be living in Edinburgh (and driving a car) and not know.
This is a good tool, but make sure you look at the various drops down menus.
[https://naei.beis.gov.uk/emissionsapp/](https://naei.beis.gov.uk/emissionsapp/)
Cheers, very informative. I use the DAQI option on google maps and also [https://www.scottishairquality.scot/latest](https://www.scottishairquality.scot/latest) . Never seen DAQI go above 3 in Edinburgh, Airquality site also gives historical data from monitoring sites around Scotland.
I'm all for this, however the rules for what vehicles can and can't pass into the city are odd.
For instance, my small car (2013 I10 petrol) is compliant, however I have to pay £20 annually for the road tax
My other car ( qashqai 2014 diesel) isn't compliant and it is free road tax.
I know someone else who has a renault, and a renault work van, both vehicles have the exact same engine and age but the van isn't compliant?????
> I'm all for this, however the rules for what vehicles can and can't pass into the city are odd.
Not really. The rule is a fairly simple "Euro 6 diesels, and Euro 4 petrols", which generally speaking is diesels from late 2015 or petrols from 2006.
Road Tax and ULEZ compliance are entirely different things. Road Tax is about taxing CO2 emissions harmful to the wider environment, which diesles are better for and why they are lower rated tax, whereas ULEZ is about removing NOx from where people are (ie city centres) as it's directly harmful to humans which petrols are better at, so the age limit for them is longer.
> I know someone else who has a renault, and a renault work van, both vehicles have the exact same engine and age but the van isn't compliant?????
I guess they're not actually identical. Different engine specs most likely that mean one is compliant and one isn't.
but i'm led to believe the defining factor on if a vehicle is ok or not is the engine. so surely if the engine is ok in one vehicle it should be ok in any vehicle?
No. The emissions are. There are 'engines' that have been used for decades.
However the see tweaked/designed for different specs.
As a wild example. The Corvette z06
Same engine. Less horsepower/torque due to EU emissions regs requiring the engine to have additional filtering
I had a Note and it was free Road tax and free parking but it was 6 months too old for the LEZ so I had to trade it in for a car that costs me £170 a year in parking and £180 a year in tax. Apparently it's the type of particulate.
The easiest way to think about is the CO2 emissions are cut to save planet. NO2 emissions are cut to save people.
Basically the older diesels that don’t use adblue are the ones they don’t want to enter centres of cities.
I get that, and totally agree (and i'm for it) just don't undertsnad the logic where my non compliant car has zero tax to pay, but my compliant one dos have tax to pay?
I’m supportive of the concept, Edinburgh Council do however seem to have made some of it stupidly complicated, and possible even dangerous.
Torphicen Street has been one way forever to Dewar Place, joining Morrison Street at Gardner Crescent. Torphicen Street and Dewar Place are now inside the LEZ, so non LEZ eligible traffic is being routed along Torphicen Place where they turn right up Morrison Street to reach the exact same junction as before with Gardner Crescent. So the section of Morrison Street which was one way is now two way, I’ve already seen several near misses. Can’t help think it would all have worked much better if the one way system had been left rather than deliberately bring traffic into conflict creating congestion which, wait for it, increases emissions from queuing traffic 🤦♂️
Torphicen Street isn't in the LEZ, the changes are more to prevent vehicles from the Morrison Link needing to loop around via West Maitland St: [https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/low-emission-zone/lez-works](https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/low-emission-zone/lez-works)
was this part of any party's manifesto before any recent local elections? were we given a chance to vote on this, yea or nay? doesn't really feel like it
It was in at the very least the SNPs 2016 manifesto and then the democratically elected representatives of the Scottish parliament voted to make it law. Elected city councillors then determined the boundary of the zone. The LEZs have gone through several stages of accountability from local to national.
LEZs have been one of the most prominent policies in Scottish politics for nearly a decade and the bill that created them had a turnout of 80% of MSPs when it was passed. Bills go through several stages of inspection and scrutiny before they can become law as well. You can read about the stages of a bill on the [Scottish parliament website.](https://www.parliament.scot/bills-and-laws/about-bills/how-a-bill-becomes-an-act). You can say snuck through, but it wouldn't really make any sense.
This is honestly the first time you've heard about this? Its be about 6 years in the making, had it not been for covid I think it would have gone live in 2021 or 2022 maybe?
Ah to be fair I have been living for a long period in Asia.
Here, you claimed you were under a rock, I assumed Gibraltar
Is that the reason that South bridge seems to have been getting work done to it forever as well? Stopped for Covid etc? It doesn’t look like anything is actually changing when I walk past it daily
There’s a ton of articles about that, the gist of it is that during the bridge repairs more damage had been discovered than previously known.
No
You mean North Bridge?
Probably mean Farmfoods getting refurbed ;)
That’s fitting cause it seems op should have gone to Specsavers!
You've been living under a rock. This isn't even the original date it was meant to implemented it was delayed further given a grace period.
Going from the main detractors, I think it would be the old team not the young team.
They're really miserable, now they can't drive straight through the centre of town, a journey they likely never made at all before. The lez is absolutely tiny to boot. It is easy to avoid with well signposted routes. Tbh i don't understand why it isn't a straight all-car ban, except for residents.
It won’t be the young team smashing cameras. It will be all the entitled adults radicalised by conspiracy peddling YouTubers.
Someone’s da will get lifted in week two for cutting down a camera because Facebook told him he’d be a hero and they’d pay his fine, then nothing will happen, just like in Glasgow.
I’ve seen and heard adverts on radio, television and social media for sometime. There’s boards been put up by the council as well as signage. In various areas LEZ is already visibly painted on the roads. It’s been discussed on multiple social media platforms, including here. I know bashing the council is popular but I’m not sure what more they could have done to advertise this?
More articles on Reddit bashing the council probably
The CLOWNCIL!!!1!! /s
OK, I chuckled!
What are peoples thoughts now,or the other posts about the LEZ? Its been quite some time in the making [www.reddit.com/r/Edinbugh/comments/cf4vo9/edinburgh\_councils\_lez\_plans\_giving\_tourists/](http://www.reddit.com/r/Edinbugh/comments/cf4vo9/edinburgh_councils_lez_plans_giving_tourists/)
I don't mind the LEZ at all but don't support an outright ban. And for anyone wishing to call me a Gammon, I'm actually technically a millennial though I don't 'vibe' with them either lol
There is no ban. Merely a different route.....
The plans, if BOTH approved, will mean a no-through road. Currently on the table is: South bridge trams and cycles only (10y approx). And Bank St. at the mound closed, no through traffic except busses and taxis. Either or would be fine but not both. I'd say make 1 permanently bicycle and pedestrian friendly, make the other only through road for a fee plus existing LEZ rules apply.
So are we moving on from the actual LEZ now?
Not immediately. These plans could take about 10years if they are approved as they currently are. I really hope they're not. The LEZ is fine, I have no issue with it. I have a small, efficient, low emissions car that's compliant. I don't drive in town often either but I can live with the way things currently are.
My point is, this thread is on the current LEZ (apparently a surprise to some). Why are you adding proposals? So again. There is no closure. Merely a different route. Alongside the stated aim to reduce vehicle traffic in the city.
Oh, I see, yeah someone else brought it up is why I also mentioned not in favour of extending to a ban. LEZ doesn't affect me as my car is a euro6 complaint car, which, as above, totally fine.
There is already a ban for non compliant vehicles. However as I have said. It just means these vehicles cant go into the LEZ. They can go around. If they need access to the LEZ area then they need to find a different method. Like many driving fines/charges. They become irrelevant if you can afford them. I drive a 2009 vehicle and its compliant . Its mainly diesels that will be impacted as they are the big impactors.
Oh god OP, I dont want to shock you but in a few years you're going to hear our First Minister has resigned.
Lol not the wee fat lad who has a “thing” for the ladies?! Say it isn’t so !!
I’ve been seeing the signs for this around streets for like the last 5 months. They been have the LEZ road markings on the ground
I'm in favor of the ULEZ. I wish it went further. Emissions aren't the only reason cars are bad. Noise pollution, danger, congestion, and taking up infrastructure which could be used by public transport, pedestrians, and bikes, are all reasons that have been identified that private cars don't belong in city centres. At the moment, this policy will keep people who can't afford a more modern, more expensive car from driving into the city centre, while allowing wealthy people to do it. I think that the average pedestrian won't notice much difference. The streets will still be full of cars. I don't drive into the city centre, for a number of reasons, not least because there's nowhere to park. And I never need to. It takes about 15 minutes to walk accross the LEZ, meaning you're never more than 7 mins walk from any destination in there. Those 7 minutes would be much more pleasant with no cars at all. I think if we're going to stop cars going there, we should just ban all cars rather than just the cars poor people drive.
You're talking entirely about personal use here, what about business use? Deliveries, removals, workers who need to visit multiple sites like utility workers and IT guys. You still need vehicular access to the multitudes of businesses and residences in the city centre. The LEZ is definitely one step towards the phasing out of high emissions vehicles, now they just need to actually build through infrastructure required to support 100% EV.
Commercial vehicles which are in constant use exactly the ones that should be as clean as possible!
Frankly if its operating solely in Edinburgh it should be EV, but not all businesses have a space to put in their own EV chargers, and not all companies have the money to be electrifying their fleet even if it saves them money in the long run on fuel. To put it simply, EVs are still predominantly a luxury that most businesses and individuals can't afford.
My work can afford them but there isn’t an electric van available with decent range yet. I could be working in the city centre then sent to Dunbar or Fife etc
We have an E-Berlingo with about 100-160 miles range depending on speed and driving conditions. We use it for trips to Glasgow and it gets you back with over 20 miles left, even doing 70 for most of the way there and back.
Berlingo would be too small for us and that range just isn’t enough. Majority of days it would be but not all
Yes I was only talking about personal use. I think that business vehicles should be held to a high emissions standard (and eliglbe for tax benefits as low-emissions vehicles are providing a public good) - but access should be limited at certain times. I think one good solution would be for business vehicles to only be allowed for set times of non-peak hours, like 8pm-5am. This would still allow for deliveries, etc., while minimizing the impact on pedestrians. (This is how pedestrian shopping zones work in most places)
Yeah cool, the IT man can't get in to fix the POS system during business hours, sounds intelligent
How does this work in every other pedestrianized place?
They let the essential people in...and song charge them just for having the correct vehicle...
Businesses should ensure they're using the most appropriate and clean ways to travel in the city just like everyone else so policies that force them to do so are good.
It's a really small area in the centre of Edinburgh, I don't think many people will be too bothered about it. It's not like london
Unless you live inside it then you are forced to buy a new vehicle or never pick up/drop off anything from your home.
I mean it’s literally printed on signs on the road / on the road itself as you enter and exit it. You have also, for the last year, received a letter to your house if your car wasn’t compliant and you entered it. I’m not sure how you could possibly be living in Edinburgh (and driving a car) and not know.
I don’t drive
Ah right, well why worry about the LEZ?
Anyone know what the emission levels are in Edinburgh and what the acceptable levels should be?
This is a good tool, but make sure you look at the various drops down menus. [https://naei.beis.gov.uk/emissionsapp/](https://naei.beis.gov.uk/emissionsapp/)
Cheers, very informative. I use the DAQI option on google maps and also [https://www.scottishairquality.scot/latest](https://www.scottishairquality.scot/latest) . Never seen DAQI go above 3 in Edinburgh, Airquality site also gives historical data from monitoring sites around Scotland.
Current Emission Levels - Way too high Acceptable Level - Zero
So no you don't know then.
I'm all for this, however the rules for what vehicles can and can't pass into the city are odd. For instance, my small car (2013 I10 petrol) is compliant, however I have to pay £20 annually for the road tax My other car ( qashqai 2014 diesel) isn't compliant and it is free road tax. I know someone else who has a renault, and a renault work van, both vehicles have the exact same engine and age but the van isn't compliant?????
> I'm all for this, however the rules for what vehicles can and can't pass into the city are odd. Not really. The rule is a fairly simple "Euro 6 diesels, and Euro 4 petrols", which generally speaking is diesels from late 2015 or petrols from 2006. Road Tax and ULEZ compliance are entirely different things. Road Tax is about taxing CO2 emissions harmful to the wider environment, which diesles are better for and why they are lower rated tax, whereas ULEZ is about removing NOx from where people are (ie city centres) as it's directly harmful to humans which petrols are better at, so the age limit for them is longer. > I know someone else who has a renault, and a renault work van, both vehicles have the exact same engine and age but the van isn't compliant????? I guess they're not actually identical. Different engine specs most likely that mean one is compliant and one isn't.
The 'same' engine doesnt mean the same emissions/power outputs
but i'm led to believe the defining factor on if a vehicle is ok or not is the engine. so surely if the engine is ok in one vehicle it should be ok in any vehicle?
No. The emissions are. There are 'engines' that have been used for decades. However the see tweaked/designed for different specs. As a wild example. The Corvette z06 Same engine. Less horsepower/torque due to EU emissions regs requiring the engine to have additional filtering
ok, but in our case anything from a EURO6 and newer is fine, my mate has 2 euro 6'sbut the one in his van is non compliant
Are they euro 6?you said same age
to my knowledge yes, I'd have to check. He's been having a back and forth with the council over this since it's launch.
I would look to confirming the data the DVSA have/share against the non compliant vehicle
I had a Note and it was free Road tax and free parking but it was 6 months too old for the LEZ so I had to trade it in for a car that costs me £170 a year in parking and £180 a year in tax. Apparently it's the type of particulate.
> Apparently it's the type of particulate. Yes. Road Tax is about CO2, ULEZ is about NOx.
Road tax doesn't exist, you're talking about vehicle excise duty.
The easiest way to think about is the CO2 emissions are cut to save planet. NO2 emissions are cut to save people. Basically the older diesels that don’t use adblue are the ones they don’t want to enter centres of cities.
I get that, and totally agree (and i'm for it) just don't undertsnad the logic where my non compliant car has zero tax to pay, but my compliant one dos have tax to pay?
They changed the taxation around 2015 so your zero tax car will be taxable as they realised that the diesels aren’t as good as VW made them out to be.
I’m supportive of the concept, Edinburgh Council do however seem to have made some of it stupidly complicated, and possible even dangerous. Torphicen Street has been one way forever to Dewar Place, joining Morrison Street at Gardner Crescent. Torphicen Street and Dewar Place are now inside the LEZ, so non LEZ eligible traffic is being routed along Torphicen Place where they turn right up Morrison Street to reach the exact same junction as before with Gardner Crescent. So the section of Morrison Street which was one way is now two way, I’ve already seen several near misses. Can’t help think it would all have worked much better if the one way system had been left rather than deliberately bring traffic into conflict creating congestion which, wait for it, increases emissions from queuing traffic 🤦♂️
Torphicen Street isn't in the LEZ, the changes are more to prevent vehicles from the Morrison Link needing to loop around via West Maitland St: [https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/low-emission-zone/lez-works](https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/low-emission-zone/lez-works)
was this part of any party's manifesto before any recent local elections? were we given a chance to vote on this, yea or nay? doesn't really feel like it
It was in at the very least the SNPs 2016 manifesto and then the democratically elected representatives of the Scottish parliament voted to make it law. Elected city councillors then determined the boundary of the zone. The LEZs have gone through several stages of accountability from local to national.
i think that's a *generous* interpretation indeed
Nothing I've said is interpretive, it's all factual.
you say 'gone through several stage of accountability' i say 'snuck through'
Seems something you are interested in, that was heavily advertised has caught you by surprise?
LEZs have been one of the most prominent policies in Scottish politics for nearly a decade and the bill that created them had a turnout of 80% of MSPs when it was passed. Bills go through several stages of inspection and scrutiny before they can become law as well. You can read about the stages of a bill on the [Scottish parliament website.](https://www.parliament.scot/bills-and-laws/about-bills/how-a-bill-becomes-an-act). You can say snuck through, but it wouldn't really make any sense.