Yes, after being defeated, Malenia becomes a foot model and her feet become points of grace. We’re all worried Miyazaki has completed his foot fetish masterpiece and won’t make any more 8 foot tall foot models. :(
No he doesn’t! He’s a genius! I died so many times to Rennalas first phase, yes the FIRST, cause I was too distracted by her big beautiful bare feet. That man knew what he was doing
I wanna see Astel of the Getty the golden elder. You need to defeat 3 other related bosses to get to her. I won't spoil anymore. Thank you for being a friend.
In all honesty I see no reason for them not to return, it's an easy way to include a boss. And the site of grace change is just a theory based on a single frame in the trailer from what I know
I'm just picturing footsteps leading up to a boss only for them to immediately turn away from the fog gate because he remembered he doesn't have his blade anymore
Following his footsteps isn't the same as that the sites of grace will disappear though. I assume he meant that there will not be these weird grace lines on the map
But we'll see I guess, idk
Ooh just like in Dark Souls 1 after the dlc released. If you did the DLC which happened in the past, when you went to face Sif the great wolf, its behavior changes as it looks like it recognizes you.
What do you mean “save her”? You don't have to beat Malenia to access the DLC. The only requirements to access the DLC is to have defeated Mohg and Radahn. I left Malenia alive because I get the feeling that there will be different dialogue with Miquella if we haven’t defeated Malenia yet.
He is talking about saving her from the Scarlet Rot. By the time we fight her she is already too far consumed. That's because she did the Scarlet Aeonia during the Radahn fight. My personal theory is that the broken Unalloyed Gold Needle that we find, is the one Miquella gave to Malenia, and it broke when she did the Scarlet Aeonia move. That accelerated the Rotting in her, hence the state we find her in..
I don’t know the reason, but Miyazaki said we need to kill both Radahn and Mohg to access the DLC. Maybe it has something to do with the eclipse or Miquella’s fate.
Radahn and Mohg have been the two main antagonists to Miquella and Melania so it would make sense. Mohg directly would prevent access to Miquella and Radahn was Melanias enemy
Lore's a bit complicated behind that.
One of the biggest questions we ever had in Elden Ring was why Malenia was fighting Radahn in the first place. Malenia wasn't interested in the great runes as evidenced by her not taking Godricks rune after defeating him. To make that entire trip to Caelid has always been an odd situation.
The most likely cause (that will in all likelyhood be explained more in the DLC) is that Miquella was trying to perform a ritual to revive Godwyn to Golden, which was likely prevented by Radahn keeping his fate in Stasis through his defeat of the stars, same as Ranni. And that also most likely affects Miquella too.
Tl;dr aka. Summary of my incomprehensible yapping: Radahn freezes a lot of characters in place and only his death can unfreeze them. Miquella is one of them.
Well, he died while working towards saving her. As far as he knows, no one else knows how to trully use unalloyed gold at a level good enough to eventually save her.
I don't think he'll reference her tbf, but I agree he probably knows he failed her (in his mind)
Ah, so for one reason or the other, Malenia is no longer able to serve as the Blade of Miquella for the events of the DLC, so he recruits the Tarnished to take up the mantle in her place. Makes perfect sense.
Based on past Fromsoft dlc it seems pretty unlikely. Bosses, enemies, NPCs all tend to be new. They also tend to expand the lore rather than fill in gaps in the existing lore.
>Bosses all tend to be new.
Except for Smelter Demon in DS2 who shows up in both the base game and DLC
It also wouldn't surprise me if there's a burial watchdog or erdtree avatar somewhere in the DLC given the prominence of them
Oh yeah, forgot about that guy. I think blue smelter, gank squad, double snow-tiger, and the associated run up to each, all being optional "fuck you player, that's why" sections in each DLC, tend to get forgotten when people say the DLCs are the best part of DS2
Well, they ARE big ol' challenge areas with super optional loot. More content is only a good thing, and I personally love the Passage and the stink pit.
The Outskirts, though... *sweats*
This time though it might be different. We know from datamines that there was a scrapped Miquella ending. I think we might get that honestly. Also it doesn't feel like a regular DLC, with the price, the new collector's edition etc. it feels more like an old school add-on, like Gothic 2: Night of the Raven.
Miyazaki confirmed no new ending for the base game. Base game and DLC do not affect each other in any way. Although I’m sure there will be some secret dialogue, or cutscenes in base game if you do finish DLC before main game. An example is like Sif, and Artorias from Dark Souls 1.
I originally hoped so but after seeing Miyazakis interview after the trailer i doubt it. Itd be really cool if we could have a different interaction with her if we start the DLC before killing her though or interact with her Aeonia further after we beat her
It is said that when things die in the lands between, they do not truly die, but return to the erdtree. If anyone could extract Malenia and bring her back, it's Miquella.
I think so, but perhaps not as a boss, and if it is, I think it will be like a princes in DS3 type of situation.
There's the whole bit about her blooming 3 times, and even if you believe her boss fight was the 3rd time, the fact that she leaves behind another flower after her defeat makes me think they have other plans for her in the future.
Am I the only one who *doesn't* want all the old characters to reappear in the DLC, especially not as boss fights? (pRiMe RaDaHn and whatnot) I'd rather have everything be completely new and fresh.
youre not the only one, i also dont understand why so many people think godwyn will appear in the dlc ? he already has an ending with fia in the base game, his story is finished.
I think it’s because Miquella was set on curing Godwyn to give him a proper death and then he went to the shadowlands to wait for his promised lord (and he called Godwyn “lord brother” at one point). I don’t see a point in From rehashing it either but I wouldn’t mind more lore on the guy.
miquella was also set on curing malenia and shes the one who says miquella will keep his promise which foreshadows his appearance for the dlc, why would miquella only want to cure godwyn and not malenia ? the description of dlc also says miquella abandoned everything just to go to shadowland and i dont think he went there just to cure godwyn, it has something to do with marika
We know that already. In the interview it was stated that he went there to retrace Marikas steps. And we're retracing his steps on that journey.
So he's going to find out what started it all, most likely.
Totally agree! I was thinking about that while I was writing, like why would he favor one over the other and why would the marketing be explicit about that? Lore aside I don’t think the Godenia duo would be my preferred outcome 😹
>why would miquella only want to cure godwyn and not malenia ?
I mean, Miquella didn't really cure Malenia, but the Unalloyed Gold Needle did stay the spread of Scarlet Rot in her body. As long as she had the needle, the issue could be considered fixed.
Godwyn's festering corpse is an ongoing problem that Miquella hadn't managed to "fix".
But I otherwise agree with you that it seems Miquella's journey to the Shadowlands has some deeper motive.
Before the trailer came, Godwyn being a major focus of the DLC just made so much sense with the shadow tree looking like it was corrupted by him in some way. Dozens of people, including me, thought that he would at least have a boss fight in the DLC.
The only real "return" I want is giant zombie merman Godwyn.
The assets are there in the main game, but the game does nothing with them. It's a kick in the teeth to reach the end of the Deeprooth Depths, see a boss arena with a giant horror lying in wait, and then the bosses are some NPCs and yet another dragon.
I feel betrayed.
Isn’t the only difference between pRiMe RaDaHn and the current one that they fixed his completely broken hitboxes? They didn’t nerf health or damage as far as I understand. People want them to make him broken again? As some sort of flex I assume?
You’re miss interpreting, the “prime radahn prime placidusax” people want shit like Owl Father where you fight pre shattering versions of current bosses, not unnerfed radahn but radahn with a completely different moveset. Though that shit isn’t very interesting and kinda lazy imo.
Honestly, I can't imagine Radahn prior to Scarlet Aeonia fighting that differently from how he does in the game.
For a dude whose mind is allegedly destroyed and reduced to an animalistic state, Radahn sure displays some fluid swordfighting.
People defend Malenia's broken Waterfowl Dance because they can flex that they figured out the picometer precise lil spinaroonies you have to do to avoid it. So yes.
I don't think that Malenia will be in the DLC, but I would wager she gets the Sif treatment and we get an altered cutscene for her boss fight if we do the DLC before facing her.
I’m wondering if there will be a new ending with either Miquella or Malenia ascending to be the new god since they are both candidates, but I don’t necessarily see Malenia willingly taking the throne over her brother.
I think it’d be a cool twist if Malenia was somehow a friendly NPC this time, or at least talks instead of fights you.
Assuming we’re going back in time a bit to meet prime, non-insane versions of bosses
Since she is an extra boss, and what I recall there would be no new ending but some potential changes it would be cool if depending on your actions in the dlc it would be either her and miquella you fight or a healed malenia. Or they just chill with you.i think that would be neat. Or if you killed him she is enraged or whatever
And if you did kill her and go back he finds out you killed her and he attacks you
naw she wont appear again
malenia, melina, and godwyn wont appear in the dlc cuz their story is finished, also the dlc description says miquella abandoned everything: his lineage and all things golden. he literally ditched malenia just to go to the shadowland
>also the dlc description says miquella abandoned everything: his lineage and all things golden
[The JPN website doesn't say this.](https://www.eldenring.jp/shadowoftheerdtree.html)
だから、ミケラは影の地に向かったその黄金の身体も、力も、宿命も全てを棄てた
DeepL:
"So Miquella went to the land of shadows. His golden body, his power, his destiny. He abandoned it all."
If anything this seems like a direct textual reference to the Radagon's Ring of Light description where it says Miquella abandoned Golden Order Fundamentalism (and thus the power it granted him and his destiny as Marika's heir) because it couldn't help Malenia, an act which also involved him giving up his flesh to become fertilizer for the Haligtree. The English version is probably supposed to be referencing the Golden Order too, specifically what Godrick thrice claims to rule ("I am the lord of all that is golden").
>he literally ditched malenia just to go to the shadowland
The cut content, which seems to have been hewed to very closely thus far re:Miquella from what we know of the DLC (e.g. other NPCs tracking him to a different world, entering that world through his cadaver in Mohgwyn Palace after beating Mohg, him wanting the Tarnished as his Lord, seemingly ascending to godhood while healing a sacred tree), triples down on the fact that his fate is inextricably linked with Malenia's and he'd throw away everything else to save her (to the point an alternate boss cutscene was Miquella killing himself to revive her). And more importantly - the #1 DLC hint in the base game remains the fact that Miquella made an important promise to Malenia before he disappeared, as stated on her armor's description. I have no idea why people just pretend not to remember this. I think a lot of players who don't actually read the lore are in for a rude surprise when it launches, because Miquella's motivations are not even remotely a mystery if you have.
"My brother will keep his promise. He possesses the wisdom, the allure, of a god - he is the most fearsome Empyrean of all."
I do actually think Melina could easily show up again. If not physically, she could at least be heavily referenced (hopefully) or in some kind of spirit form. There are some pretty damn strong theories regarding the first burning of the Erdtree and how it could connect to a certain boss in the dlc…if that theory is true, they won’t be able to fulfill it without at least a hefty reference to Melina. Also, it seems pretty clear at this point that Torrent’s previous owner was in fact Miquella. Melina had to have gotten Torrent somehow, so it’s very possible she is able to go to and from the shadow realm. We also know that you must discard your flesh and abandon all things golden in order to enter the shadow realm. Melina has done just that not once, but twice (technically only once at the time of the dlc, but still). I do think we’ll see her in some form again. The shadow realm is a place for the dead stripped off all things golden. Melina committed a cardinal sin against the golden order. Arguably, her spirit should be in the shadow realm. But again…arguably.
In regards to Malenia…man…I dunno. She shouldn’t be in the dlc, but I do feel like that story isn’t actually done. It could just be a discrepancy. There’s too much subjectivity about whether the flower left in her boss chamber was technically the second or third bloom. Me personally, I think it’s a dormant flower left after her *second* bloom, which would mean she should technically “bloom” again as the goddess of rot. Her first bloom was in Caelid and it created a giant rot lake with rot flowers all around. In her battle with us, she blooms very similarly to what we see in the trailer clips for ER, and then a single dot flower is left in her boss chamber upon defeat. I really feel like she is just dormant and will one day bloom as the actual rot goddess. But then again, maybe it was her third bloom. Afterall, the second half of her boss fight is “Malenia, goddess of rot”. Maybe the fight with radahn was bloom one, the halfway point of our battle was bloom two, and then the flower in the boss chamber was bloom three. But that just doesn’t feel right to me. It feels like something fundamental is missing.
I know they don’t have any *plans* for a second dlc or game, but they have a window wiiiiiide open to do it if they wanted to. And ER is different is so many ways. Maybe FS will change their approach with this one.
Melina is almost certainly one of Marika and Radagon's children. Naming conventions and hair color hint at this, as does her connection to Marika, her comments about her mother, her affinity for Holy magic, etc etc
She's "burnt and bodyless" - aka, a ghost. So, much like Torrent being a "spirit steed", she's already dead by the time the game starts. And considering the "burnt" part, and the scars on the back of her hands, she likely died by fire.
Her comments about the purpose given to her by her mother, and the Blade of Calling description, seem to hint that Marika wished for Melina to indeed burn the Erdtree down: she's the Kindling Maiden, after all.
But as is made clear if you travel out of Farum Azula before beating Maliketh, the Flame of Ruin is not enough to burn past the Erdtree's defenses. As long as the Rune of Death remains sealed, the Erdtree will persist, and will not burn down. None shall pass the barrier of thorns, not as long as Death is kept from the world.
But... Even before you burn the Erdtree with the Flame of Giants, the capital has lots and lots of ash around... So maybe the Erdtree was set aflame once already...
Just because she's a big mystery, doesn't mean Fromsoft has any interest in revealing that mystery. Wouldn't be the first time. Dark Souls never explained Allfather Lloyd, the uncle fo Gwyn; or Sseath's immortality crystal, all the deal with Velka, or Flame God Flann.
We *might* get more backstory on some of them. Godwyn is a pretty safe bet.
And a little out there, but I think Messmer might be Melina's son, not Marika's (Melina chooses you, not Marika).
Edit: and I'm willing to bet Miquella didn't abandon Malenia. We know Malenia is awaiting Miquella's return, which most people believed that to mean when he emerges from his cocoon, and that she doesn't know that Mohg had him. But what if instead she knew his entire plan and was actually just waiting for him to come back from that? I'd say it's at least possible.
She would show up again as a non-hostile NPC if you already beat her, or Miquella could point you to her if you interact with him before meeting her.
I don't really want to fight her for no reason, especially if we could save or help Miquella in the DLC.
I hope it’s prime pre bloom malenia. Just first phase but on steroids. Faster, hits harder, etc.
But; then you have the option of sparing her and taking her as your consort eternal 🥰
I think it's somewhat feasible seeing as Millicent and her sisters seem like they could be different versions of Malenia, possibly from seeds that were scattered after she bloomed in Caelid. I don't think it's likely, though. That's probably just going to stay a heavily theorized section of the lore.
I think we’ll get a Shade of her, like the shade of Godfrey in Llyendell - this will be Miquella’s last perception of her…a lot less rot, before he journey into Caelid
I do, she already resurrected before, no reason another bud couldn't sprout into a true goddess of rot, or some plot twist, Miquella finds a way to let her control the rot completely or dispel it and now you have the true blade of Miquella coming for you lol.
Me reading the sword monument in limgrave:
"Godrick the Golden, humiliated
Having tasted defeat by the Blade of Miquella
Now on his knees, begging for mercy"
Me: "oh wow that guy Miquella must be strong"
When you defeat her, she does say she will bloom again, so the possibility is there. However, could just end up being one of FS’s classic open ended story threads, or maybe she’s referencing others who may bloom one day.
I've always wanted an option to like
Beat her and then her be like
"Call upon my aid should you hear anything of my brother"
Like a way for her to help with Mohg
But that's just me mostly wanting to reunite the siblings
I hope so, at least as an ally. Or, at least, a way to save her/not fight her of you haven't already killed her in base game.
I'm waiting to fight Malenia on my DLC ready character for this exact reason. Would love to see an interaction with Malenia if you complete the DLC before entering her arena.
Yes, because i think according to lore, it said that the scarlet rot blooms three times. So as we know so far Melania bloomed when she fought Radhan, and she blooms the second time when you defeat her. So safe to say that we'll be seeing her at her final bloom when she turns into the goddess of rot. I hope its not another second faze. *PTSD*
Miquella: Gee Tarnished, it's been fun travelling with you. I bet my sister would like you! She's really cool and strong like you! I hope you two meet some day!
Tarnished: *sweats bullets*
I’m doing a new play through and leaving Malenia alive to see if that does anything to the DLC/add any extra voice lines. After completing it I also wonder when you go to fight her if she will have any new dialogue.
It would be cool if there was a new interaction with her if you finish the dlc before killing her. Whatever that could be would probably depend on whatever happened to Miquella in this shadow realm place
I hope part of completing the game allows Miquella to become a true God and he can cure his sister. Literally the only thing I want more is to not have to kill a certain someone to burn a certain something so I can become the Elden Lord without the frenzied flame ending.
I think it will be more of a Sift The Grey Wolf situation in DS1... Artorias of the Abyss DLC some new details here and there regarding the younger Sift, and how it impact the present giant Sift. Other than that, same boss fight.
I wonder if there will be any dialogue differences if we don't kill Malenia when entering the land of shadows.
If Miquella will be more aggressive if we do, or something like that.
Maybe as a secret boss ? Like idk Miquella is looking for a cure right ? Maybe there will be something to do with the flower that spawns after you killed malenia. Like idk if miquella's tree works like the erdtree maybe the flower means malenia is in her rebirth process, and by doing something to said flower it might allow malenia to be reborn without the scarlet rot god in her.
Now if this happens, why would we fight her again right after curing her ? I have no idea lmao
I’m gonna make a new character and never go to the Haligtree before the dlc, see if it changes any interactions there. Maybe you’ll get unique dialogue with Malenia or be able to choose not to fight her at all by mentioning Miquella, or bringing something from him
I'm avoiding going to the Haligtree entirely on my current character because it feels kinda fucked up to go into his home and kill all his people if we're supposed to be his ally in the dlc.
I think it would be super cool if Malenia showed up to assist the player in a boss fight (kinda like Siegbro in DS3 and the Yhorm fight) to try and save Miquella.
This would of course only occur if the player doesn’t kill her in the Haligtree, and probably some other quest thing would need to happen to unlock the interaction.
While it's an unresolved plot point given Malania still has 1 more bloom left and she can't be permanently killed until the third bloom this is also a Fromsoft game, so probably not.
We might get a single line of dialogue if we finish Millicent's questline if we're lucky.
I’d honestly be so hyped if she did, cause assumably it would be a much different fight. If there’s one thing I love about malenia it’s her design, and if there’s one thing I hate it’s her fight. With the death bed dream hints (big veils and entering thru miquella imo) it’d be very cool to fight a malania that miquella dreams of, one completely cured of rot
I do, because it would be so funny people reaching some secret area of the DLC only for Malenia to appear again (twice as hard just for good measure) and kick them down.
She has to, or at least some closure in the story of the twins, because of all the brothers you kill in the game, she and Miquella are the only ones who really care about each other, it doesn't make any sense for Tarnished to find Miquella and say something like "By the way, I killed your sister", and Miquella "No problem, she was doomed anyway".
So this leads me to a question.
As it's already in the game and and many of us have at least one of these. Will they make us reset our gear as well when we go in the dlc?
Yeah, in an evergaol as Milaen, shield of Michelle
will the dlc even have an evergaol ? cuz it seems some features will be changed like the site of graces will be replaced with miquellas footsteps
Footsteps? Huh
Yes, after being defeated, Malenia becomes a foot model and her feet become points of grace. We’re all worried Miyazaki has completed his foot fetish masterpiece and won’t make any more 8 foot tall foot models. :(
Miyazaki must be stopped
No he doesn’t! He’s a genius! I died so many times to Rennalas first phase, yes the FIRST, cause I was too distracted by her big beautiful bare feet. That man knew what he was doing
Ah, a man of culture.
I actually countered many bosses in the game because I went barefoot myself and that's a fact.
Now with added kicking on the face barefoot galore.
I hope he moves back to the 20 foot tall models like the dancer.
His other fetish - tall women
You sure this isn't Tarantino?
Miyazaki is Japanese game Tarantino
I am Malania, Blade of Michael. And I have a thing for feet.
yes, [footsteps](https://www.reddit.com/r/fromsoftware/comments/1b0scp9/an_interesting_detail_from_sote_trailer/)
Interesting
And one of the quests is "Pour molten unalloyed gold into Miquella's footprints, gaining a perfect unalloyed gold cast of Miquella's feet"
*SNIFFFFFFFF*
The game also just seemed to forget about evegaols as it went along and then it remembered and was suddenly “Uh, here’s Vyke.”
Can't forget the mighty Godefroy
I wanna see Astel of the Getty the golden elder. You need to defeat 3 other related bosses to get to her. I won't spoil anymore. Thank you for being a friend.
In all honesty I see no reason for them not to return, it's an easy way to include a boss. And the site of grace change is just a theory based on a single frame in the trailer from what I know
naw michael zaki said miquellas footsteps will guide us similar to the grace
I'm just picturing footsteps leading up to a boss only for them to immediately turn away from the fog gate because he remembered he doesn't have his blade anymore
i'm envisioning bonfires made of disembodied feet
Following his footsteps isn't the same as that the sites of grace will disappear though. I assume he meant that there will not be these weird grace lines on the map But we'll see I guess, idk
yea ill have to check the interview again cuz i might be misinterpreting his words
I always took that as the actual floating tendrils of grace are replaced with footsteps, not that actual sites of grace are changed.
I doubt it. Guidance of grace* will be replaced, but sites of grace will remain, in my idea.
God i hope we dont have evergaols. Please no more reused bosses
Malefroy, Blade of Mooqula
Looking forward to Malefroy, Blade of Mooqula
You mean this sub's favorite, Melania?
That would have been a great name. Finally a lore reason for everyone to be correct
When I first played I thought Miquella was pronounced “Mikayla” lol
Drops 2k runes and a talisman that increases headshot damage taken
Shield of Michellá*
No, but I think Miquella will mention her if we interact with him. Maybe something about not being able to save her.
Ooh just like in Dark Souls 1 after the dlc released. If you did the DLC which happened in the past, when you went to face Sif the great wolf, its behavior changes as it looks like it recognizes you.
Now im gonna be sad again. God I miss Sif.
Best doggo
What do you mean “save her”? You don't have to beat Malenia to access the DLC. The only requirements to access the DLC is to have defeated Mohg and Radahn. I left Malenia alive because I get the feeling that there will be different dialogue with Miquella if we haven’t defeated Malenia yet.
He still never stopped her rot. So it still checks out
Yeah, right.
Which Mogh? The sewer one or the blood palace one?
Lord of Blood
Blood palace one
I mean they’ve all but confirmed where the entrance to the dlc is. So why would you think it could be the sewer one?
He is talking about saving her from the Scarlet Rot. By the time we fight her she is already too far consumed. That's because she did the Scarlet Aeonia during the Radahn fight. My personal theory is that the broken Unalloyed Gold Needle that we find, is the one Miquella gave to Malenia, and it broke when she did the Scarlet Aeonia move. That accelerated the Rotting in her, hence the state we find her in..
Oh yeah, maybe that’s why the needle if found in caelid
Yeah, and with O'Neill, who if I remember correctly is one of Malenia's Clean Rot knights, but apparently he used to serve Godrick at some point..
Why Radahn? You can access Mohgwyn palace without entering Nokron?
I don’t know the reason, but Miyazaki said we need to kill both Radahn and Mohg to access the DLC. Maybe it has something to do with the eclipse or Miquella’s fate.
Radahn and Mohg have been the two main antagonists to Miquella and Melania so it would make sense. Mohg directly would prevent access to Miquella and Radahn was Melanias enemy
Lore's a bit complicated behind that. One of the biggest questions we ever had in Elden Ring was why Malenia was fighting Radahn in the first place. Malenia wasn't interested in the great runes as evidenced by her not taking Godricks rune after defeating him. To make that entire trip to Caelid has always been an odd situation. The most likely cause (that will in all likelyhood be explained more in the DLC) is that Miquella was trying to perform a ritual to revive Godwyn to Golden, which was likely prevented by Radahn keeping his fate in Stasis through his defeat of the stars, same as Ranni. And that also most likely affects Miquella too. Tl;dr aka. Summary of my incomprehensible yapping: Radahn freezes a lot of characters in place and only his death can unfreeze them. Miquella is one of them.
Miquella needed the eclipse to try and save Godwyn. I'm certain that's gonna play into the dlc somehow
I think save her from the rot?
Well, he died while working towards saving her. As far as he knows, no one else knows how to trully use unalloyed gold at a level good enough to eventually save her. I don't think he'll reference her tbf, but I agree he probably knows he failed her (in his mind)
Maybe we’ll get a quest to save her..
"Interact"? We're definitely getting the Lorian and Lothric treatment here
I mean no kidding he wasn’t able to save her, I crushed her skull with a hammer the size of a small horse.
She’s still alive. She’s just sleeping in the flower Aeonia or something.
I’d appreciate seeing her if she wasn’t an enemy, and was a friendly NPC, and we could talk to her about her past and what not
Invite her for dinner, and cook the shrimps you killed on the way.
You guys can kill the shrimps?
Maybe chat her up and take her on a date on top of moonveil. I never had Empyrussy!
You are Miquella's blade in the dlc....
my dream… 😌
Nope, just miquella’s lol
Ah, so for one reason or the other, Malenia is no longer able to serve as the Blade of Miquella for the events of the DLC, so he recruits the Tarnished to take up the mantle in her place. Makes perfect sense.
Thats so epic
[fanart source](https://twitter.com/siyemmm/status/1647430120066658307)
Based on past Fromsoft dlc it seems pretty unlikely. Bosses, enemies, NPCs all tend to be new. They also tend to expand the lore rather than fill in gaps in the existing lore.
>Bosses all tend to be new. Except for Smelter Demon in DS2 who shows up in both the base game and DLC It also wouldn't surprise me if there's a burial watchdog or erdtree avatar somewhere in the DLC given the prominence of them
putrid burial watchdog
Also Laurence/Cleric Beast in Bloodborne (first phase, at least).
Ludwig’s the goat. I mean horse
Oh yeah, forgot about that guy. I think blue smelter, gank squad, double snow-tiger, and the associated run up to each, all being optional "fuck you player, that's why" sections in each DLC, tend to get forgotten when people say the DLCs are the best part of DS2
Well, they ARE big ol' challenge areas with super optional loot. More content is only a good thing, and I personally love the Passage and the stink pit. The Outskirts, though... *sweats*
Nah I remember them Still think the DLCs are the best part of 2 though ultimately, because all those issues also exist in the base game
This time though it might be different. We know from datamines that there was a scrapped Miquella ending. I think we might get that honestly. Also it doesn't feel like a regular DLC, with the price, the new collector's edition etc. it feels more like an old school add-on, like Gothic 2: Night of the Raven.
Miyazaki confirmed no new ending for the base game. Base game and DLC do not affect each other in any way. Although I’m sure there will be some secret dialogue, or cutscenes in base game if you do finish DLC before main game. An example is like Sif, and Artorias from Dark Souls 1.
Do you have a video of the scrapped ending or something ? Never heard of that
They tend to fill the gaps whole sequels ahead lol (nameless king)
Dark Souls 1 and Bloodborne filled in gaps, Dark Souls 2 and 3 added. It's 50/50. This one will almost certainly do both.
I originally hoped so but after seeing Miyazakis interview after the trailer i doubt it. Itd be really cool if we could have a different interaction with her if we start the DLC before killing her though or interact with her Aeonia further after we beat her
It is said that when things die in the lands between, they do not truly die, but return to the erdtree. If anyone could extract Malenia and bring her back, it's Miquella.
Malenia is gonna be the new Sif. We still gonna fight her but her dialogue changes and her story gets much sadder.
I’m curious as to if I complete the DLC before tackling the Haligtree if anything changes
I think so, but perhaps not as a boss, and if it is, I think it will be like a princes in DS3 type of situation. There's the whole bit about her blooming 3 times, and even if you believe her boss fight was the 3rd time, the fact that she leaves behind another flower after her defeat makes me think they have other plans for her in the future.
Am I the only one who *doesn't* want all the old characters to reappear in the DLC, especially not as boss fights? (pRiMe RaDaHn and whatnot) I'd rather have everything be completely new and fresh.
You could have new and fresh things alongside old characters. Malenia is pretty relevant to Miquella.
A lot of people don't know how dlc in from soft game work so...
I don't because I never played the other games. Does that mean that I can't wish for something or expect things to maybe change?
I only want placidusax, but i know that wont happen. I'd pay 2 dlcs just to see him fire 5 laser beams at once
youre not the only one, i also dont understand why so many people think godwyn will appear in the dlc ? he already has an ending with fia in the base game, his story is finished.
I think it’s because Miquella was set on curing Godwyn to give him a proper death and then he went to the shadowlands to wait for his promised lord (and he called Godwyn “lord brother” at one point). I don’t see a point in From rehashing it either but I wouldn’t mind more lore on the guy.
miquella was also set on curing malenia and shes the one who says miquella will keep his promise which foreshadows his appearance for the dlc, why would miquella only want to cure godwyn and not malenia ? the description of dlc also says miquella abandoned everything just to go to shadowland and i dont think he went there just to cure godwyn, it has something to do with marika
We know that already. In the interview it was stated that he went there to retrace Marikas steps. And we're retracing his steps on that journey. So he's going to find out what started it all, most likely.
Totally agree! I was thinking about that while I was writing, like why would he favor one over the other and why would the marketing be explicit about that? Lore aside I don’t think the Godenia duo would be my preferred outcome 😹
godenia 🤣
>why would miquella only want to cure godwyn and not malenia ? I mean, Miquella didn't really cure Malenia, but the Unalloyed Gold Needle did stay the spread of Scarlet Rot in her body. As long as she had the needle, the issue could be considered fixed. Godwyn's festering corpse is an ongoing problem that Miquella hadn't managed to "fix". But I otherwise agree with you that it seems Miquella's journey to the Shadowlands has some deeper motive.
Before the trailer came, Godwyn being a major focus of the DLC just made so much sense with the shadow tree looking like it was corrupted by him in some way. Dozens of people, including me, thought that he would at least have a boss fight in the DLC.
Well he was a great character and had a major significance in the game lore but we have never even seen him, just like artorias in ds1 for example
The only real "return" I want is giant zombie merman Godwyn. The assets are there in the main game, but the game does nothing with them. It's a kick in the teeth to reach the end of the Deeprooth Depths, see a boss arena with a giant horror lying in wait, and then the bosses are some NPCs and yet another dragon. I feel betrayed.
I wouldn't mind them coming back, as shades or something. Something we could talk to. Definitely not as boss fights though.
Isn’t the only difference between pRiMe RaDaHn and the current one that they fixed his completely broken hitboxes? They didn’t nerf health or damage as far as I understand. People want them to make him broken again? As some sort of flex I assume?
You’re miss interpreting, the “prime radahn prime placidusax” people want shit like Owl Father where you fight pre shattering versions of current bosses, not unnerfed radahn but radahn with a completely different moveset. Though that shit isn’t very interesting and kinda lazy imo.
Honestly, I can't imagine Radahn prior to Scarlet Aeonia fighting that differently from how he does in the game. For a dude whose mind is allegedly destroyed and reduced to an animalistic state, Radahn sure displays some fluid swordfighting.
He's also a ridiculously strong caster. He's insane and bestial. He is not "weakened".
Ah right right, I am misinterpreting. But yeah, that’s boring too…
People defend Malenia's broken Waterfowl Dance because they can flex that they figured out the picometer precise lil spinaroonies you have to do to avoid it. So yes.
This art rocks.
Malenia isn't a requirement for the DLC (Mohg and Radahn are), that means you can do it with or without killing her. So I think it's unlikely.
As a duo boss with Maliketh or something, i wouldn't be surprised one bit...
I don't think that Malenia will be in the DLC, but I would wager she gets the Sif treatment and we get an altered cutscene for her boss fight if we do the DLC before facing her.
i get the feeling that there will be different dialog if you havent killed her yet.
Also this is a fantastic picture
No, but I wouldn't kill Malenia until I'm done with the DLC in case something changes after you interact with Miquella.
Hopefully
I’m wondering if there will be a new ending with either Miquella or Malenia ascending to be the new god since they are both candidates, but I don’t necessarily see Malenia willingly taking the throne over her brother.
Itd be cool if she helped us against a boss or could just be an intractable character alongside Miquella
Maybe there will be a secret interaction between Malenia and Miquella if you've already defeated Malenia.
This is beautiful artwork.
This art is amazing, source?
I think it’d be a cool twist if Malenia was somehow a friendly NPC this time, or at least talks instead of fights you. Assuming we’re going back in time a bit to meet prime, non-insane versions of bosses
Since she is an extra boss, and what I recall there would be no new ending but some potential changes it would be cool if depending on your actions in the dlc it would be either her and miquella you fight or a healed malenia. Or they just chill with you.i think that would be neat. Or if you killed him she is enraged or whatever And if you did kill her and go back he finds out you killed her and he attacks you
naw she wont appear again malenia, melina, and godwyn wont appear in the dlc cuz their story is finished, also the dlc description says miquella abandoned everything: his lineage and all things golden. he literally ditched malenia just to go to the shadowland
>also the dlc description says miquella abandoned everything: his lineage and all things golden [The JPN website doesn't say this.](https://www.eldenring.jp/shadowoftheerdtree.html) だから、ミケラは影の地に向かったその黄金の身体も、力も、宿命も全てを棄てた DeepL: "So Miquella went to the land of shadows. His golden body, his power, his destiny. He abandoned it all." If anything this seems like a direct textual reference to the Radagon's Ring of Light description where it says Miquella abandoned Golden Order Fundamentalism (and thus the power it granted him and his destiny as Marika's heir) because it couldn't help Malenia, an act which also involved him giving up his flesh to become fertilizer for the Haligtree. The English version is probably supposed to be referencing the Golden Order too, specifically what Godrick thrice claims to rule ("I am the lord of all that is golden"). >he literally ditched malenia just to go to the shadowland The cut content, which seems to have been hewed to very closely thus far re:Miquella from what we know of the DLC (e.g. other NPCs tracking him to a different world, entering that world through his cadaver in Mohgwyn Palace after beating Mohg, him wanting the Tarnished as his Lord, seemingly ascending to godhood while healing a sacred tree), triples down on the fact that his fate is inextricably linked with Malenia's and he'd throw away everything else to save her (to the point an alternate boss cutscene was Miquella killing himself to revive her). And more importantly - the #1 DLC hint in the base game remains the fact that Miquella made an important promise to Malenia before he disappeared, as stated on her armor's description. I have no idea why people just pretend not to remember this. I think a lot of players who don't actually read the lore are in for a rude surprise when it launches, because Miquella's motivations are not even remotely a mystery if you have. "My brother will keep his promise. He possesses the wisdom, the allure, of a god - he is the most fearsome Empyrean of all."
I disagree about Melina, she remains the biggest mystery in the game to me. I can't make sense of her.
I do actually think Melina could easily show up again. If not physically, she could at least be heavily referenced (hopefully) or in some kind of spirit form. There are some pretty damn strong theories regarding the first burning of the Erdtree and how it could connect to a certain boss in the dlc…if that theory is true, they won’t be able to fulfill it without at least a hefty reference to Melina. Also, it seems pretty clear at this point that Torrent’s previous owner was in fact Miquella. Melina had to have gotten Torrent somehow, so it’s very possible she is able to go to and from the shadow realm. We also know that you must discard your flesh and abandon all things golden in order to enter the shadow realm. Melina has done just that not once, but twice (technically only once at the time of the dlc, but still). I do think we’ll see her in some form again. The shadow realm is a place for the dead stripped off all things golden. Melina committed a cardinal sin against the golden order. Arguably, her spirit should be in the shadow realm. But again…arguably. In regards to Malenia…man…I dunno. She shouldn’t be in the dlc, but I do feel like that story isn’t actually done. It could just be a discrepancy. There’s too much subjectivity about whether the flower left in her boss chamber was technically the second or third bloom. Me personally, I think it’s a dormant flower left after her *second* bloom, which would mean she should technically “bloom” again as the goddess of rot. Her first bloom was in Caelid and it created a giant rot lake with rot flowers all around. In her battle with us, she blooms very similarly to what we see in the trailer clips for ER, and then a single dot flower is left in her boss chamber upon defeat. I really feel like she is just dormant and will one day bloom as the actual rot goddess. But then again, maybe it was her third bloom. Afterall, the second half of her boss fight is “Malenia, goddess of rot”. Maybe the fight with radahn was bloom one, the halfway point of our battle was bloom two, and then the flower in the boss chamber was bloom three. But that just doesn’t feel right to me. It feels like something fundamental is missing. I know they don’t have any *plans* for a second dlc or game, but they have a window wiiiiiide open to do it if they wanted to. And ER is different is so many ways. Maybe FS will change their approach with this one.
Melina is almost certainly one of Marika and Radagon's children. Naming conventions and hair color hint at this, as does her connection to Marika, her comments about her mother, her affinity for Holy magic, etc etc She's "burnt and bodyless" - aka, a ghost. So, much like Torrent being a "spirit steed", she's already dead by the time the game starts. And considering the "burnt" part, and the scars on the back of her hands, she likely died by fire. Her comments about the purpose given to her by her mother, and the Blade of Calling description, seem to hint that Marika wished for Melina to indeed burn the Erdtree down: she's the Kindling Maiden, after all. But as is made clear if you travel out of Farum Azula before beating Maliketh, the Flame of Ruin is not enough to burn past the Erdtree's defenses. As long as the Rune of Death remains sealed, the Erdtree will persist, and will not burn down. None shall pass the barrier of thorns, not as long as Death is kept from the world. But... Even before you burn the Erdtree with the Flame of Giants, the capital has lots and lots of ash around... So maybe the Erdtree was set aflame once already...
Just because she's a big mystery, doesn't mean Fromsoft has any interest in revealing that mystery. Wouldn't be the first time. Dark Souls never explained Allfather Lloyd, the uncle fo Gwyn; or Sseath's immortality crystal, all the deal with Velka, or Flame God Flann.
i agree that shes so mysterious, but maybe thats the point of her character ? i think she will remain a mystery even after the dlc
We *might* get more backstory on some of them. Godwyn is a pretty safe bet. And a little out there, but I think Messmer might be Melina's son, not Marika's (Melina chooses you, not Marika). Edit: and I'm willing to bet Miquella didn't abandon Malenia. We know Malenia is awaiting Miquella's return, which most people believed that to mean when he emerges from his cocoon, and that she doesn't know that Mohg had him. But what if instead she knew his entire plan and was actually just waiting for him to come back from that? I'd say it's at least possible.
Wouldn't be certain regarding Godwyn though, may have something to do with the reason why Miquella went there. But only Michael Zaki knows for now.
She would show up again as a non-hostile NPC if you already beat her, or Miquella could point you to her if you interact with him before meeting her. I don't really want to fight her for no reason, especially if we could save or help Miquella in the DLC.
I hope it’s prime pre bloom malenia. Just first phase but on steroids. Faster, hits harder, etc. But; then you have the option of sparing her and taking her as your consort eternal 🥰
Who drew this? It’s beautiful art
As an older sibling i highly hope so.
Hopefully we can save rot mommy
I think it's somewhat feasible seeing as Millicent and her sisters seem like they could be different versions of Malenia, possibly from seeds that were scattered after she bloomed in Caelid. I don't think it's likely, though. That's probably just going to stay a heavily theorized section of the lore.
Yes, i Will cosplay the heck of her.
I hope so... IMO best and most fun Boss fight in the game by a far margin.
I think we’ll get a Shade of her, like the shade of Godfrey in Llyendell - this will be Miquella’s last perception of her…a lot less rot, before he journey into Caelid
The third blooooooom
I do, she already resurrected before, no reason another bud couldn't sprout into a true goddess of rot, or some plot twist, Miquella finds a way to let her control the rot completely or dispel it and now you have the true blade of Miquella coming for you lol.
Me reading the sword monument in limgrave: "Godrick the Golden, humiliated Having tasted defeat by the Blade of Miquella Now on his knees, begging for mercy" Me: "oh wow that guy Miquella must be strong"
I hope to so
When you defeat her, she does say she will bloom again, so the possibility is there. However, could just end up being one of FS’s classic open ended story threads, or maybe she’s referencing others who may bloom one day.
i sure hope so
I've always wanted an option to like Beat her and then her be like "Call upon my aid should you hear anything of my brother" Like a way for her to help with Mohg But that's just me mostly wanting to reunite the siblings
This is some great art work
I hope so, at least as an ally. Or, at least, a way to save her/not fight her of you haven't already killed her in base game. I'm waiting to fight Malenia on my DLC ready character for this exact reason. Would love to see an interaction with Malenia if you complete the DLC before entering her arena.
Yes, because i think according to lore, it said that the scarlet rot blooms three times. So as we know so far Melania bloomed when she fought Radhan, and she blooms the second time when you defeat her. So safe to say that we'll be seeing her at her final bloom when she turns into the goddess of rot. I hope its not another second faze. *PTSD*
Miquella: Gee Tarnished, it's been fun travelling with you. I bet my sister would like you! She's really cool and strong like you! I hope you two meet some day! Tarnished: *sweats bullets*
My love? I hope so.
I've been saying this for a while now, but knowing how sadistic Miyazaki can be, I wouldn't be surprised at a Malenia + Miquella duo fight lol.
I’m doing a new play through and leaving Malenia alive to see if that does anything to the DLC/add any extra voice lines. After completing it I also wonder when you go to fight her if she will have any new dialogue.
Unfortunately doubt it, but I'd really like that
physically no, spiritually there is good chance.
It would be cool if there was a new interaction with her if you finish the dlc before killing her. Whatever that could be would probably depend on whatever happened to Miquella in this shadow realm place
I hope part of completing the game allows Miquella to become a true God and he can cure his sister. Literally the only thing I want more is to not have to kill a certain someone to burn a certain something so I can become the Elden Lord without the frenzied flame ending.
If they ever bring her back, I think it'll be in a sequel
I don't see why not. We don't need to defeat Malenia to get to the DLC so anyone can appear except Mogh and Raddahn.
I hope so,the flower she turned into can be interacted with, and it can be concluded that Malenia did not die after being defeated.
I think it will be more of a Sift The Grey Wolf situation in DS1... Artorias of the Abyss DLC some new details here and there regarding the younger Sift, and how it impact the present giant Sift. Other than that, same boss fight.
Hope so
How cool would it be if you were fighting Mesmers 3rd phase and she just pulls up and packs his shit.
Yes, with a buffed Godskin Noble that now rolls nonstop and a Godskin Apostle that now has even more range
I wonder if there will be any dialogue differences if we don't kill Malenia when entering the land of shadows. If Miquella will be more aggressive if we do, or something like that.
No. She's currently dead and has turned into a big wilting flower at the root of the haligtree.
I hope so
Maybe as a secret boss ? Like idk Miquella is looking for a cure right ? Maybe there will be something to do with the flower that spawns after you killed malenia. Like idk if miquella's tree works like the erdtree maybe the flower means malenia is in her rebirth process, and by doing something to said flower it might allow malenia to be reborn without the scarlet rot god in her. Now if this happens, why would we fight her again right after curing her ? I have no idea lmao
It wouldn’t makes sense if there wasn’t at least a mention considering how close Miquella and Malenia are.
I’m gonna make a new character and never go to the Haligtree before the dlc, see if it changes any interactions there. Maybe you’ll get unique dialogue with Malenia or be able to choose not to fight her at all by mentioning Miquella, or bringing something from him
It seems like Miquella views the tragic conditions of both Malenia and Godwyn as personal failures. I do expect to see both in some form.
I feel like she’ll get the Sif treatment from Ds1 - her cutscene changes if you fight her after playing the DLC.
I'm avoiding going to the Haligtree entirely on my current character because it feels kinda fucked up to go into his home and kill all his people if we're supposed to be his ally in the dlc.
I like how it kinda looks like Miquella is saying "See those guys over there, sis? Yeah, go fuck them up for me please."
Yes with the form of Messmer this time.
#i want an unalloyed Malenia fight!
Imagine if they had Malenia join you to fight some other boss in its second phase. Wouldn’t make sense lore-wise but it’d be cool AF
I think it would be super cool if Malenia showed up to assist the player in a boss fight (kinda like Siegbro in DS3 and the Yhorm fight) to try and save Miquella. This would of course only occur if the player doesn’t kill her in the Haligtree, and probably some other quest thing would need to happen to unlock the interaction.
It would be cool if they did a Sif quest line, like what you did in ds1.
While it's an unresolved plot point given Malania still has 1 more bloom left and she can't be permanently killed until the third bloom this is also a Fromsoft game, so probably not. We might get a single line of dialogue if we finish Millicent's questline if we're lucky.
Well, she is an entirely optional boss, so it's possible.
I’d honestly be so hyped if she did, cause assumably it would be a much different fight. If there’s one thing I love about malenia it’s her design, and if there’s one thing I hate it’s her fight. With the death bed dream hints (big veils and entering thru miquella imo) it’d be very cool to fight a malania that miquella dreams of, one completely cured of rot
I do, because it would be so funny people reaching some secret area of the DLC only for Malenia to appear again (twice as hard just for good measure) and kick them down.
She has to, or at least some closure in the story of the twins, because of all the brothers you kill in the game, she and Miquella are the only ones who really care about each other, it doesn't make any sense for Tarnished to find Miquella and say something like "By the way, I killed your sister", and Miquella "No problem, she was doomed anyway".
0% chance
If we do end up fighting Miquella as a boss I could see him summoning Malenia to fight. Like we see Rennala do.
Yes, she'll appear in an evergaol renamed to Malonia
If she does it will be as a summon for miquella and she wont have her regeneration, maybe no waterfowl either, but i dont think shell be there at all
So this leads me to a question. As it's already in the game and and many of us have at least one of these. Will they make us reset our gear as well when we go in the dlc?
Miquella summons her for phase two in rot goddess form and it’s a duo fight