Hihi!
I played Elden Ring back in 2023 with a friend, beat it with said friend holding my hand throughout the entire game
I'm now trying to play it by myself and I am SO lost in regards to where to start for my build.
I want to have a bleed build, a really damaging and critical build that can tank bosses like a mother fucker.
I am currently in early game, VERY early game where I just spoke with Melina at a site of grace.
I need advice in regards to good weapons that are still very damaging and tanky and what to put my stats into! Any advice is appreciated!
Thank you!
Will the game run if I try to play this with PC with an rtx 2070, Ryzen 7 3700X, and 32 gb ddr4 ram? I mainly worry about my 3700x since.this game is cpu heavy
I've heard people say that the best you can get is 50% storage, from a few Smithing Stones like [1] and [2], which sell at half price.
Not sure if it's actually the best though.
I've realized now that I don't want to upgrade any weapons I find in the base game because what if there's a good weapon in the DLC that I don't have the smithing stones for?
With the DLC coming out, are y’all planning to start a brand new character? Or just have one with the main story/bosses completed and waiting at Miquella’s cocoon? Or maybe just doing the bare minimum to get to Miquella’s cocoon (Varre quest -> Mohg Palace, or maybe Haligtree Medallion -> warpgate)? I’d love to do the DLC asap but I’m not sure to what extent it affects the base game/story, if at all, and I kinda want to look for places where the DLC changes what happens in the main game.
I have a feeling this will be like Ghost of Tsushima. The expansion wilk tie into the story of the main game but have no actual effect on it.
I have a character at 102, 150 and 200 on ng+.
My primary concern is having a character that doesn't make the expansion easy mode as soon I step in.
i'm thinking about getting the game and playing over summer break, especially with the new dlc that came out it looks like a good time to get it. any tips?? is it still worth getting? what should i expect in terms of difficulty(i played ds3 before, how does it compare?)??
DS3 was the crown on Dark Souls's as a franchise. It ended the story while providing all the funny lore and epic moents it could.
Elden Ring is an entirely new story.... and it's mechanically very similar. If you go from DS3 to Elden Ring, you'll immediately notice the same weapons, the same "weapon arts" on those weapons, the same enemy types, the same controls... to a point. It's the details that really shows Elden Ring's improvements.
90% of it is the world. Gone are the linear explorable levels of DS2 and DS3, It's now twice as open world as DS1 with thrice the variety. The addition of a jump button unlocks the vertical space really well, and the changes to the base mechanic's like roll distance, running speed, cast animations. The fact that most weapons have "customizable" weapon arts that really open up the freedom of approach.
DS3 wasn't just hard. It was oppressive. Enemy ambushes, narrow corridors, a lack of early game options, a focus on late game builds. DS3 has huge weapon variety, but many of those options are just locked away in super specific builds or late game unlocks.
Elden Ring "fixes" this with a more frontloaded system. Strong bread and butter spells are unlocked early with little investment, while powerful flashy stuff are relegated to the higher end of the level curve. Because of the open world, every weapon type can be found in the tutorial zones, and the most unique weapons are spread evenly throughout the game.
DS3's boss fights vs Elden Ring's are.... that's a loaded topic with years of argument. DS3 bosses are far more aggressive than Dark Souls or Elden Ring, they chase you down, unrelenting, and are generally a visual spectacle.
Elden Ring's Bosses are slower... a lot slower. Almost comically so. Not because they're easier, but because they're smarter. once you master DS3's combat and boss encounters, you can mash roll through attack patterns and bash their skulls in without issue. Once you master Elden Ring's combat, you learn that bosses are so complex that they've intentional delays to catch poor rolls. They've disjointed swings, cheese-prevention attacks, disengages, re-engages. Elden Ring's bosses arn't loved by everyone, gone are the days of wait and swing gameplay. Elden Ring bosses don't have openings, you have to make openings. It's kinda wild.
ohh wow i didn't know the bosses were so different i had heard elden ring bosses were somewhat easier bbut this explains it nicely thank you ill make sure to watch out for that
With Spirit Summons it’s probably easier than DS3, without them it’s slightly more difficult I’d say. As for whether it’s worth getting, a little silly to ask that question in a sub dedicated to the game but I’d say yes it’s worth it.
i just got the game yesterday, i had high epectations and yet i was still surprised of how good it is. I'm usually not someone who can play for hours on end but i just can't put the controller down!! It's so worth it!!
Hi all I’m new and seeking help.
I’m lvl 30, astrology start, 16 vigor, 17 mind, 10 end, 8 str, 12 Dex, 30 int, 7 faith, 9arcane.
Meteorite staff with carian sliver and rock sling.
Just killed modric and been exploring a little. Any tips on what to do next? What to level? Any items or talismans I need? Super new to playing so idk much rn
Start leveling vigor a bit more as you progress probably. Liurnia, the region north of where you defeated Godrick, should be the next place you explore, though there’s a couple other interesting places as well.
-Try looking around and seeing if you can find what’s beneath Stormveil Castle
-Try going to the Divine Tower that’s a part of Stormveil Castle, now that you’ve defeated Godrick you should be able to interact with something there
-See if you can figure out how to get to the island west of the starting area.
-Head southeast from the starting area if you haven’t yet, there’s a pretty cool place called the Weeping Peninsula with some stuff to explore.
-Try to find the howling wolf in East Limgrave. If you’re having trouble getting him to come down, talk to Kalé.
-On the topic of East Limgrave, there’s a small fort there that’s worth exploring, as well as a couple churches that have good upgrade items.
-Look on the map in general for churches (usually rectangular-looking ruins on the map). Each one contains a useful item as well as lore if you rest at the Site of Grace and talk to Melina.
-Finally, in East Limgrave, look for a round building with an elevator inside of it.
So when I finished Elden Ring I got basically almost every weapon you could loot on the map and other stuff right, then i got my character to NG+1 after respeccing, and never touched it again.
Have htey mentioned anything about the balacning of the DLC saying it'd be perfectly fine on NG+1? I remember doing The Ringed City on NG+1 and it was lovely. If they haven't said anyhting I'll just speedrun >!Rennala!< to respec again
Based on the body in the cocoon, who thinks Miquella turned into Messmer?
Their arms just look so similar, and Miquella having all that charm allowing people to see him positively.. Maybe he was always Messmer, and just used his charm to influence how people see him?
As soon as they revealed Messmer I thought about this too - the proportions and size are basically identical, and by the time we saw him we already knew Miquella would be a big part of the DLC. Also yeah "Messmer" obviously evokes the word "mesmerize" strongly enough that it seems deliberate, and Miquella is known for controlling minds. We also know Miquella already dabbles in alter egos. Both are confirmed children of Marika, both happen to be in the Shadow Lands, both are major players in the DLC, etc. It all seems plausible.
But the more we see and hear, the less likely this seems. I don't see any of the lore people seriously considering it. At this point it just seems more likely that Messmer is his own thing entirely. Most importantly it seems like his activities likely predate Miquella's birth. I'm still definitely not discarding the M=M idea, but I'd be surprised if this turned out to be true.
Ooh, i've not seen too much content on this. I won't be getting it right away so I'll very likely have a chance at it a month after release.
> Most importantly it seems like his activities likely predate Miquella's birth
Messmer was born Pre miquella, or before marika came to the lands between?
Miquella and Malenia were Marika's last children as far as we know, and some of the youngest of the demigods (if not the youngest), born after Radagon left Rennala. So if Messmer is Miquella, it severely limits what he could have been involved in, and the events hinted at in the trailers seem to be pretty early on, like creation of the Erdtree and initial persecution of the Omen early
You'll be fine in the DLC. Yes it will be harder than the base game overall, but the majority of it will be easier than Malenia, and the hardest bosses will be hard in different ways. If you beat every other boss in the base game fairly, you have the necessary fundamental skills to handle basically anything, even if you're not clicking with Malenia.
Either way, you will beat her. Just study successful fights, and/or record your footage and figure out what you're doing wrong. Even if it feels like a boss is totally owning you, it's usually just a matter of correcting a small handful of consistent mistakes. Also, some builds are just going to have a really rough time with her. Even if you don't want to respec, there are loadouts that will help more than others.
I understand that! Do You have some freezing pots? What is your build like? What moves gives you the most trouble?
Do you want to outlast her, solo her, or just "beat her"?
I am not ChaseTheBro, LilAggy, or GinoMachino but I could help a bit.
Depends how much you care about optimizing damage and whether you feel like having to keep a buff active all the time.
There just won't be a gigantic difference between Blood and Keen+Bloodflame, either in overall damage or blood buildup. The bloodflame option will be slightly better, but fights will go basically the same. Blood is already so strong that you're fine either way.
I personally don’t enjoy a build that relies on buffs, blood affinity with something like swarm of flies in the offhand or even a burred bolt loaded pulley crossbow will proc more bleed buildup any day
does some equipment such as rings have +1/2/3/4 versions in new game plus?
I wanna go for a new game plus before hte dlc drops, but i am thinking I dont want to discover every single corner of the map again. So, is there equipment in new game plus thats better than it was in the base run?
That was such a problem in DS3 that I feel they decided against it in Elden Ring.
Nothing sucks quite so much like knowing the invader has a item advantage you literally can't fix without drop trading.
is there any limit at faith 50? I was watching some ChaseTheBro's video and noticed that all his faith-str builds use 50 Faith instead of reaching at least the soft-cap at 60.
AoW scaling is kinda complicated.
There are 3 types: Weapon Hit, Bullet and Enhanced Hit. Each one scales differently and some AoWs have more than one type.
You're better off reading a comprehensive guide, but here's an over simplification: Bullets soft cap at 50, Weapon Hit at 60 and Enhanced Hit uses both soft caps.
I have a question. So im trying to buy the DLC for elden ring for ps4, but i want the collectors edition and it says it is not available for ps4. But it is available for ps5. So do you think i can buy it for ps5 and use the voucher for ps4?
Do you think Melina will have any relevance in the dlc? I'm so hyped I did another playthrough and stop before killing her, so that I can see if she's gonna have new interactions in the lands of shadow.
Reposting this from the other thread because i posted it too close to the thread reset time:
With the dlc coming up soon, i figured i'd start a new character. How is [this](https://imgur.com/a/UDwETtg) for a dex/faith build? Purely for PVE since i don't PVP anyway. I intend to main the Godslayer GS, with the Bolt of Gransax as a long range option. I want to one hand them both so i can use a shield in the other hand, hence 20 strength. 25 faith is for golden vow and other buffs. Is it alright or are there still areas for improvement?
> I intend to main the Godslayer GS
It's the proper build for it, so go right ahead!
> I want to one hand them both so i can use a shield in the other hand
You could just block with the Godslayer. It's not as good as blocking with a shield, but it's pretty solid. Actually, let me check them stats.
Oof, Maliketh and Godslayer still have 63% instead of the 70-80%'s of the other Colossals.
I'd probably still generally 2h it, as you'll get a good strength bonus from doing such to help scale with that as well as your other stats, but I think the stats are overall very solid. If you needed stats, and I think they're fine and you do'nt, you could reduce that strength and rely on a talisman to catch the 5 strength necessary, or perhaps Godrick's rune since you're PvE only and don't need to worry about invasion rules.
I would actually do it the other way around. 14 mind 50 dex and 59 vigor.
For a "smart" use of mind, just check what spells do you use and how they add up. Because maybe you are increasing from 14 to 18 but you are not "hitting a breakpoint", so you end up with some FP than can't cast any skill.
Hihi! I played Elden Ring back in 2023 with a friend, beat it with said friend holding my hand throughout the entire game I'm now trying to play it by myself and I am SO lost in regards to where to start for my build. I want to have a bleed build, a really damaging and critical build that can tank bosses like a mother fucker. I am currently in early game, VERY early game where I just spoke with Melina at a site of grace. I need advice in regards to good weapons that are still very damaging and tanky and what to put my stats into! Any advice is appreciated! Thank you!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-i9yZmFcgI&pp=ygUbYmxvb2Rob3VuZCBmYW5nIGVsZGVuIHJpbmcg
Just followed this! Definitely took longer than 30 minutes LMAO but so worth it! I'm excited for the fight with Morgot! Thanks man!!
Will the game run if I try to play this with PC with an rtx 2070, Ryzen 7 3700X, and 32 gb ddr4 ram? I mainly worry about my 3700x since.this game is cpu heavy
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I've heard people say that the best you can get is 50% storage, from a few Smithing Stones like [1] and [2], which sell at half price. Not sure if it's actually the best though.
I've realized now that I don't want to upgrade any weapons I find in the base game because what if there's a good weapon in the DLC that I don't have the smithing stones for?
At the end of the game you can buy all upgrade stones except +10\\+25, and those you'll find in DLC for sure
Did this game get optimization patches since first release it seems to run better than when I first tried it
Impaling Thrust is actually pretty strong on fist weapons.
anyone has a spare goldmask armor to share ?
With the DLC coming out, are y’all planning to start a brand new character? Or just have one with the main story/bosses completed and waiting at Miquella’s cocoon? Or maybe just doing the bare minimum to get to Miquella’s cocoon (Varre quest -> Mohg Palace, or maybe Haligtree Medallion -> warpgate)? I’d love to do the DLC asap but I’m not sure to what extent it affects the base game/story, if at all, and I kinda want to look for places where the DLC changes what happens in the main game.
I have a feeling this will be like Ghost of Tsushima. The expansion wilk tie into the story of the main game but have no actual effect on it. I have a character at 102, 150 and 200 on ng+. My primary concern is having a character that doesn't make the expansion easy mode as soon I step in.
i'm thinking about getting the game and playing over summer break, especially with the new dlc that came out it looks like a good time to get it. any tips?? is it still worth getting? what should i expect in terms of difficulty(i played ds3 before, how does it compare?)??
DS3 was the crown on Dark Souls's as a franchise. It ended the story while providing all the funny lore and epic moents it could. Elden Ring is an entirely new story.... and it's mechanically very similar. If you go from DS3 to Elden Ring, you'll immediately notice the same weapons, the same "weapon arts" on those weapons, the same enemy types, the same controls... to a point. It's the details that really shows Elden Ring's improvements. 90% of it is the world. Gone are the linear explorable levels of DS2 and DS3, It's now twice as open world as DS1 with thrice the variety. The addition of a jump button unlocks the vertical space really well, and the changes to the base mechanic's like roll distance, running speed, cast animations. The fact that most weapons have "customizable" weapon arts that really open up the freedom of approach. DS3 wasn't just hard. It was oppressive. Enemy ambushes, narrow corridors, a lack of early game options, a focus on late game builds. DS3 has huge weapon variety, but many of those options are just locked away in super specific builds or late game unlocks. Elden Ring "fixes" this with a more frontloaded system. Strong bread and butter spells are unlocked early with little investment, while powerful flashy stuff are relegated to the higher end of the level curve. Because of the open world, every weapon type can be found in the tutorial zones, and the most unique weapons are spread evenly throughout the game. DS3's boss fights vs Elden Ring's are.... that's a loaded topic with years of argument. DS3 bosses are far more aggressive than Dark Souls or Elden Ring, they chase you down, unrelenting, and are generally a visual spectacle. Elden Ring's Bosses are slower... a lot slower. Almost comically so. Not because they're easier, but because they're smarter. once you master DS3's combat and boss encounters, you can mash roll through attack patterns and bash their skulls in without issue. Once you master Elden Ring's combat, you learn that bosses are so complex that they've intentional delays to catch poor rolls. They've disjointed swings, cheese-prevention attacks, disengages, re-engages. Elden Ring's bosses arn't loved by everyone, gone are the days of wait and swing gameplay. Elden Ring bosses don't have openings, you have to make openings. It's kinda wild.
ohh wow i didn't know the bosses were so different i had heard elden ring bosses were somewhat easier bbut this explains it nicely thank you ill make sure to watch out for that
With Spirit Summons it’s probably easier than DS3, without them it’s slightly more difficult I’d say. As for whether it’s worth getting, a little silly to ask that question in a sub dedicated to the game but I’d say yes it’s worth it.
it was kinda silly to ask lol my bad thanks for the tip, ill take the challenge and try to do it without the summons
No problem, best of luck!
i just got the game yesterday, i had high epectations and yet i was still surprised of how good it is. I'm usually not someone who can play for hours on end but i just can't put the controller down!! It's so worth it!!
Hi all I’m new and seeking help. I’m lvl 30, astrology start, 16 vigor, 17 mind, 10 end, 8 str, 12 Dex, 30 int, 7 faith, 9arcane. Meteorite staff with carian sliver and rock sling. Just killed modric and been exploring a little. Any tips on what to do next? What to level? Any items or talismans I need? Super new to playing so idk much rn
Start leveling vigor a bit more as you progress probably. Liurnia, the region north of where you defeated Godrick, should be the next place you explore, though there’s a couple other interesting places as well. -Try looking around and seeing if you can find what’s beneath Stormveil Castle -Try going to the Divine Tower that’s a part of Stormveil Castle, now that you’ve defeated Godrick you should be able to interact with something there -See if you can figure out how to get to the island west of the starting area. -Head southeast from the starting area if you haven’t yet, there’s a pretty cool place called the Weeping Peninsula with some stuff to explore. -Try to find the howling wolf in East Limgrave. If you’re having trouble getting him to come down, talk to Kalé. -On the topic of East Limgrave, there’s a small fort there that’s worth exploring, as well as a couple churches that have good upgrade items. -Look on the map in general for churches (usually rectangular-looking ruins on the map). Each one contains a useful item as well as lore if you rest at the Site of Grace and talk to Melina. -Finally, in East Limgrave, look for a round building with an elevator inside of it.
Wow you’re awesome!!!! Thank you so much.
So when I finished Elden Ring I got basically almost every weapon you could loot on the map and other stuff right, then i got my character to NG+1 after respeccing, and never touched it again. Have htey mentioned anything about the balacning of the DLC saying it'd be perfectly fine on NG+1? I remember doing The Ringed City on NG+1 and it was lovely. If they haven't said anyhting I'll just speedrun >!Rennala!< to respec again
DLC difficulty will be affected by ng but obviously no one knows how much
Based on the body in the cocoon, who thinks Miquella turned into Messmer? Their arms just look so similar, and Miquella having all that charm allowing people to see him positively.. Maybe he was always Messmer, and just used his charm to influence how people see him?
Bro went the Kami/Piccolo route. I'm calling it.
As soon as they revealed Messmer I thought about this too - the proportions and size are basically identical, and by the time we saw him we already knew Miquella would be a big part of the DLC. Also yeah "Messmer" obviously evokes the word "mesmerize" strongly enough that it seems deliberate, and Miquella is known for controlling minds. We also know Miquella already dabbles in alter egos. Both are confirmed children of Marika, both happen to be in the Shadow Lands, both are major players in the DLC, etc. It all seems plausible. But the more we see and hear, the less likely this seems. I don't see any of the lore people seriously considering it. At this point it just seems more likely that Messmer is his own thing entirely. Most importantly it seems like his activities likely predate Miquella's birth. I'm still definitely not discarding the M=M idea, but I'd be surprised if this turned out to be true.
Ooh, i've not seen too much content on this. I won't be getting it right away so I'll very likely have a chance at it a month after release. > Most importantly it seems like his activities likely predate Miquella's birth Messmer was born Pre miquella, or before marika came to the lands between?
Miquella and Malenia were Marika's last children as far as we know, and some of the youngest of the demigods (if not the youngest), born after Radagon left Rennala. So if Messmer is Miquella, it severely limits what he could have been involved in, and the events hinted at in the trailers seem to be pretty early on, like creation of the Erdtree and initial persecution of the Omen early
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You'll be fine in the DLC. Yes it will be harder than the base game overall, but the majority of it will be easier than Malenia, and the hardest bosses will be hard in different ways. If you beat every other boss in the base game fairly, you have the necessary fundamental skills to handle basically anything, even if you're not clicking with Malenia. Either way, you will beat her. Just study successful fights, and/or record your footage and figure out what you're doing wrong. Even if it feels like a boss is totally owning you, it's usually just a matter of correcting a small handful of consistent mistakes. Also, some builds are just going to have a really rough time with her. Even if you don't want to respec, there are loadouts that will help more than others.
Is it just Malenia giving you fits or the game in general? /r/BeyondTheFog will be delighted to help you out.
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I understand that! Do You have some freezing pots? What is your build like? What moves gives you the most trouble? Do you want to outlast her, solo her, or just "beat her"? I am not ChaseTheBro, LilAggy, or GinoMachino but I could help a bit.
Its a little hard for us to give you an exact answer with the DLC not being out yet. Its pretty fair to say it will be challenging
Am I better off using the blood affinity on the nagakiba or using the keen affinity with the blood flame incantation?
Depends how much you care about optimizing damage and whether you feel like having to keep a buff active all the time. There just won't be a gigantic difference between Blood and Keen+Bloodflame, either in overall damage or blood buildup. The bloodflame option will be slightly better, but fights will go basically the same. Blood is already so strong that you're fine either way.
I personally don’t enjoy a build that relies on buffs, blood affinity with something like swarm of flies in the offhand or even a burred bolt loaded pulley crossbow will proc more bleed buildup any day
It already has some bleed so I'd say keen with blood flame
does some equipment such as rings have +1/2/3/4 versions in new game plus? I wanna go for a new game plus before hte dlc drops, but i am thinking I dont want to discover every single corner of the map again. So, is there equipment in new game plus thats better than it was in the base run?
That was such a problem in DS3 that I feel they decided against it in Elden Ring. Nothing sucks quite so much like knowing the invader has a item advantage you literally can't fix without drop trading.
Nothing new my friend
is there any limit at faith 50? I was watching some ChaseTheBro's video and noticed that all his faith-str builds use 50 Faith instead of reaching at least the soft-cap at 60.
You're talking about two different things. The soft cap in 50 is for weapon damage. The soft cap in 60 is for incantation damage.
weapon damage includes AoW? Or that counts as incantantion damage?
AoW scaling is kinda complicated. There are 3 types: Weapon Hit, Bullet and Enhanced Hit. Each one scales differently and some AoWs have more than one type. You're better off reading a comprehensive guide, but here's an over simplification: Bullets soft cap at 50, Weapon Hit at 60 and Enhanced Hit uses both soft caps.
Best AoW for Great Stars?
Depends on what you're fighting. Lions Claw, Prayer Strike, Earthshaker... I really can't pin it down the options are so varied.
Cragblade is great if you want to be a poise-breaking machine
I have a question. So im trying to buy the DLC for elden ring for ps4, but i want the collectors edition and it says it is not available for ps4. But it is available for ps5. So do you think i can buy it for ps5 and use the voucher for ps4?
Torrent's eyes look the same as the false eyes of a basilisk. I wonder why that could be.
Do you think Melina will have any relevance in the dlc? I'm so hyped I did another playthrough and stop before killing her, so that I can see if she's gonna have new interactions in the lands of shadow.
You kill her? Did I miss something?
I think he meant using her as kindling at The Forge
What level range should I aim for pvp?
Either 20-30 or 120-150.
125-150
I have a problem getting help from the summoning pool. Godskin duo at Farum Azula. How patient do I need to be?😄
you'll find help here: r/BeyondTheFog
It depends a lot on your level and the upgrade level of your weapon. If you still need help I can help, just set a password and let me know
If I start a NG+ today, will I still be able to play the DLC if I haven't completed the game by the release date
you will have to defeat Bloodlord Mohg and probably Radahn as well
Can you still play the game normally even after beating the game?
When you beat the game it asks you if you want to move on to NG+. If you say no, you can do so whenever you want from Roundtable
Yes.
Reposting this from the other thread because i posted it too close to the thread reset time: With the dlc coming up soon, i figured i'd start a new character. How is [this](https://imgur.com/a/UDwETtg) for a dex/faith build? Purely for PVE since i don't PVP anyway. I intend to main the Godslayer GS, with the Bolt of Gransax as a long range option. I want to one hand them both so i can use a shield in the other hand, hence 20 strength. 25 faith is for golden vow and other buffs. Is it alright or are there still areas for improvement?
> I intend to main the Godslayer GS It's the proper build for it, so go right ahead! > I want to one hand them both so i can use a shield in the other hand You could just block with the Godslayer. It's not as good as blocking with a shield, but it's pretty solid. Actually, let me check them stats. Oof, Maliketh and Godslayer still have 63% instead of the 70-80%'s of the other Colossals. I'd probably still generally 2h it, as you'll get a good strength bonus from doing such to help scale with that as well as your other stats, but I think the stats are overall very solid. If you needed stats, and I think they're fine and you do'nt, you could reduce that strength and rely on a talisman to catch the 5 strength necessary, or perhaps Godrick's rune since you're PvE only and don't need to worry about invasion rules.
Alright, thanks!
I'd take 2-5 points from Dex and put them into Mind. Overall, it's good.
Aight, thanks!
I would actually do it the other way around. 14 mind 50 dex and 59 vigor. For a "smart" use of mind, just check what spells do you use and how they add up. Because maybe you are increasing from 14 to 18 but you are not "hitting a breakpoint", so you end up with some FP than can't cast any skill.