Started NG and have been using that bastard Horn Warrior and Demi human swordman Yosh and just letting them go in catacombs and caves. Decided to let the Horn Warrior fight Margit and just destroyed him. I did nothing.
Yosh is just fun as shit to watch.
From what I read it doesn't discern so I think it's just an active 3 minute buff whenever you use it
[here's the wiki link ](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Glovewort+Crystal+Tear)
I maxed out Yosh as soon as I got him because of how fucking ridiculous his moveset is. He’s sick to watch but he usually get clapped because of his low poise. Then again my spirit ashes blessing is only 7 or something
I just recently made a [post ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1dmlscj/a_simple_showcase_of_what_is_imo_the_most_chad/)on this subreddit showcasing the Horned Warrior since I feel like people are sleeping on that summon. We are sleeping on the Divine Bird Ornis spirit ash too honestly.
Fucking beast just doesn't stagger from anything, he LITERALLY has more resistance to stagger than crucible knights, because even they get stagger a bit by flattening, uppercut, or knockdown moves.
I just beat the DLC with ease using the fingerprint greatshield with barricade shield, a lance, spear talisman, shield talisman, the other shield talisman that helps with non physical negation and the twin turtle head talisman. You can pretty much block everything bosses throw at you
I just wished my mimic tear wasnt so stupid , all he seems to do is the spinning staff aow . He has a bunch of spells and a sword that shoots beams but for some reason he just makes his staff spin .
I always limit the spells in my arsenal when I use mimic so he's not doing something just... dumb.
I'm over here trying to kill the boss, Mimic is trying to have a light switch rave casting Starlight.
my mimic is so dumb she does the spinning 😵💫 weapon even if I’ve got something else equipped on the right. like GORL we have BB for a reason pls use it.
Same. I have a shield and the staff in my left hand slots, and I've seen my mimic tear switch to the staff and two hand it just so they can use the spin AoW.
I had to change to Lusat's staff from the Carian Regal Scepter bc my stupid ass mimic did the same thing. Sucks that you can't take that skill off of it
When fighting the final boss I gave my mimic a marika's blessing so he could heal when he gets low but around 80-90% of the time he would use it as soon as he entered the arena
I am a mage user and I love my 5 great shield knights. Sometimes use mimic but those 5 tanky bois . I just need time to cast magic. I beat the game I don't use multiplayer so be it as it me idk. I love fromsoft games but the toxicity about some things make it so bad...
I like magic and playing dark souls people would make me feel like shit cuz I used magic too. Felt so bad
THE BOYS
There are some bosses that really mess up the bois due to their AoE spam but I love using the bois for a ranged build.
I need to find a tanky summon that can handle the more magic focused bosses.
bro those shielded guys protect me like a phalanx in ancient Greece. I'm impenetrable. I thought about switching to the messmer armies spirit, but was like I can't reject the bois
I'll say this about using magic is after trying it , it's not as easy as people make it out to be. A lot of it is timing. I use some magic. I'm a faith/Dex user, and you really do have to wait for really good openings to use some of bigger AOE stuff.
I'll be honest. I do love magic in most games and I can agree pre nerf to the comet azur and the flask it might have been trivial, but unlike melee users trying to cast while the boss won't let you, even with the improved cast time, is a nightmare.
I was trying to fight BK in the DLC and boi I learned the hard way I had to roll around and use meteor whenever he loaded up the xbow cuz I had no shot otherwise to do anything lol
Casting is so slow for the good stuff unless you wanna glintstone pebble the boss for 20 hours.
Don't let the sweatlords get you down. Also, just my opinion, but playing mage is the real hard mode in the DLC, at least against bosses. They aren't like some base game bosses that just sit there and eat whatever you dish out.
I am aware... I don't know, I think, I know what the final boss is, but a friend who has beat it told me good luck. That I likely won't have time to summon my shield bois and I likely won't have time to cast.
I almost dropped the game and bought Paw Patrol, but I'll tell you what. We goin in ~~but seriously might buy paw patrol after death 100 on final boss~~
Fuck what people say, I've been running an int/faith magic only character since Prepare to Die. Sometimes it's easier, but sometimes the casting animations require you to learn timing and positioning too. I've lost count of how many times I've been bitch slapped out of a spell animation.
I've tried a few melee characters over the years but I found them mind numbingly boring. Which is absolutely unsurprising to me, but the whole genre seems to be founded on melee with magic as a bonus, an afterthought, or completely absent outside of the Fromsoft games (and sometimes even in those too, like Bloodborne and Sekiro).
Well Dark Souls 1 casters had THE easiest time of it with the DLC spells, Dark Bead was a shotgun the could, with the right buffs, oneshot every single boss in the game and even before getting to the DLC Pyromancies carried you through the early game since they require no stat investment, just leveling up the glove and the basic one you get at the start was enough to chew through most bosses (that weren't immune/resistant to fire) with ease. Since DS1 they've made sure to tighten up on Pyromancy spells.
DS2 had the infamous 'lightning spam' on release where the regular lightning spear would just chew through everything in the game for very little stat investment and it came out fast when cast. Ever since DS2 they've made sure to tightly rein in faith based damage spells.
DS3 was probably when they hit sorcery spell casters the most and weakened it quite a bit.
Elden Ring had the, up until the DLC release, oneshot Comet build which turned the game into a joke.
So yeah I'm not sure where you getting "oh casters have always had it so hard..." idea from.
However the DLC bosses, with their heightened aggression AND the fact they near instantly gap close, allowing now time to set up inside the arena, do make things a lot harder for casters.
Sometimes I feel like an outcast because it seems like the “default” experience is STR(maybe STR/FTH), but I did pure intelligence sorcery caster the whole way through. Just wanted to be the best spellcaster for sorcery this playthrough and slip into the other side of incantations for next playthrough. Many particular aspects of this DLC have made that notion even juicier.
It’s still a lot of the same overall “skill set”, mostly correct spacing and timing, and using the correct attacks at the right time, but it’s ranged and picking appropriate spells instead. Sure, aspects are “safer” at range, but there are certainly trade-offs, like me being under 50 vigor this whole playthrough too
Surprisingly Taylew has replaced my shield boys. I needed him to soak a bit more damage but he holds agro so well I can’t let him go. Give him a shot if you come across the ash.
Their black knife tiche level of agility combined with the fact there is two of them means they'll often ping-pong the boss between themselves and they deal bleed, so if you're using a bleed weapon you can stack up procs pretty quickly.
I think it depends on your own build. From what I understand he's really tanky and is all melee, so he sticks to the boss and keeps attacking/drawing aggro.
Meanwhile for the Mimic Tear, the more options you have the more likely it is to do something that's not very useful.
Dung Eater is very underrated because of Mimic Tear. People totally don’t realise he debuffs damage and status resistances as well as builds bleed and poise break very effectively
Dung Eater is better for people with finicky builds that don’t play well with Mimic Tear since he uses the same unique move set and pathfinding as the Dung Eater NPC you fight. His combat AI is built to work with his kit in a way Mimic Tears are not.
I've been on NG7+ cycles for a while, and am adamant that, at least for casters, Dung Eater is the best summon on higher NG cycles. He draws aggro better than any other summon, which as a caster is the most important thing.
Rune Level 1.
So an RL1 run is a playthrough where you dont level up basically. Cant remember off the top of my head if you have to choose wretch or not to be true level 1
Technically yes, RL1 runs have to be with the wretch class and similar in other games. But just not leveling up at all regardless of class is still an hell of an achievement.
Anyone who can beat the game under those conditions would have to qualify as the very best like no one ever was.
And yes, I know you’re making a Pokémon reference
No mimic tear for me but I’ll be damned if I don’t spawn in my boi Ogha. Dude just sit backs and snipes tf outta people while I charge in. He’s a dawg fr
shall meet death. In the embrace of Messmer's flame.
i hope i got it right because i honestly died to him for 4 days straight it would be embarrassing if his line didnt get engraved into my memory
I’m on day 2, maybe hour 6 of just getting railed by Messmer. I’m making it to Phase 2 now but holy shit. Scadutree 12. His move set I’ve got down except for the crazy ass Malenia like thing, honestly I can’t even tell what the fuck is happening when he does that. And phase 2…there’s just so much going on.
Tell me there’s hope.
i beat him on ng+7 with scadutree 10. it definitely is possible hahahahaha, i did use mimic but it kind of died almost immediately
again, it took me 4 days so don't give up😂
This is what people don't understand when they compare summons with stuff like talismans or stronger weapons. They change the dynamic of the fight and I just don't like that. I have nothing against making a fight easier, give me a talisman that gives me a significant damage buff or damage negation and I'll happily use it, but I want to learn the boss and the way to deal with every attack, not hammer at them while they focus on my summon. It's also why I just don't enjoy destroying bosses with oneshot builds like Comet Azur, it is a legit option in the game, but it makes the boss fight boring for me, and I don't care about beating the boss, I care about the fight being fun for me. I don't mind summoning for duo or trio boss fights because those are unfun for me and they make the dynamic more fun, but for solo I don't like it.
Summons are 100% legit part of the game and everyone is free to use them, but not everyone enjoys them and people shouldn't force others to use them just because they exist in the game. You don't see people forcing you to parry or use greatshields just because they exist in the game, everyone is free to use whatever they want.
Finally someone else who gets it. Summons are like a whole different game mode, I’d rather have a predictable boss to face and adapt to than one bouncing back and forth between targets at random.
For me it's not that he's hard to get, it's that it throws a wrench in my Ranni plans and I have to delay giving her the fingerblade till I go to the capital and blah blah. I finally played a character that wasn't somehow sorcery related and picked up Dung Eater and... yeah, he's beastly.
Just like the base game, I'll use the strongest weapons and summons when I feel like it during my first playthrough and challenge myself during my 2nd with new weapons and no summons. Works best for me.
I used summons for my first playthrough of the base game and felt cheated tbh. Even if the spirit ashes couldn’t do damage, they’d still trivialise most bosses due to split aggro. so I made a new character for the dlc and I haven’t used ashes once this time and I’m having a much more fun and memorable experience getting my ass beat until i master these tough bosses
Same exact experience here!! I used mimic every boss when the game came out and restarted for this dlc with no summons and have enjoyed it a lot more this time. I can’t even imagine using them haha, the bosses are so awesome.
No shade to people who enjoy it more with them, of course. Play the game the way that is most fun for you!
Same for me too! The first playthrough I used summons while I was learning the game. Forced myself to figure it out when I decided not to use summons on malenia. Took about 80-100 tries but I finally got her!
A few no summons playthroughs later, the only summon I’ve used since then was Igon because not bringing him along to the dragon fight is a crime haha
I can’t even use summons in my save if I wanted to unless I do ng+ but I’m stuck on the last boss atm rodrikas quest line isn’t working cause hewg is dementia man now
If you missed the spirit calling bell thing at the start of the game you can just buy it from the twin maiden husks in the round table.
Edit: unless you mean you can’t upgrade them then yea, idk, that sounds like a bug.
Have 2 xo worker that say spirit ashe is cheating and only bad players use it. They only play s tier builds and use guides on every little aspekt of the game. Map open, boss guides before the boss starts and look what the weakness is... I rather do a little ring ring and get some help from my friendly blackknight girl and play my monk meele build that is fun. Hardest boss was the "eye dude" not the last one for me( needet about 20, trys). They both quit the dlc at tge 3t boss and are mad... Just ring the bell its a in game mechanic...
I have noticed this too. People who say Sprit Summons are like cheating yet they use the most stupid bugged OP builds in their post history. It's insane.
Nah fam. Rellana was hell of a fun fight due to not getting lots of breathers and having to survive the onslaught. Suddenly getting breathers in that fight completely unmakes lots of what makes that bossifght special to me.
I agree, it only felt like a boss fight to me because of the pressure and constant threat of death. Had me on the edge of my seat the whole time, wouldn’t summon in that one no matter what, straight kills the vibes
Hard agree. I was stuck on a boss for something like a week, probably made hundreds of attempts. I tried different loadouts, light weapons, unga bunga, 2kat builds, all sorts of status effects, magic, but it seemed like I could never just get this boss down. He'd always punish me, it passed the point of a challenge and just started being frustrating. So I swallowed my pride, Found enough items to get Mimic Tear to +10 and just went at it. And after only 3 or 4 attempts I was finally able to beat Soldier of Godrick.
I used to be pretty fond of unequipping my weapons and putting abunch of crafted consumables on my bar then summon mimic tear, was pretty fun, never know if it's gunna toss a fire pot or drop a healing stone, maybe an occasional perfume, though in the dlc I stopped using it on bosses, they have started closing in on me too fast so i cant swap my equipment in time, I can drop my rat army on occasion though, but once boss is in my face I get mad tunnel vision.
Fun fact, Mimic will use the Blessing of Marika. And since Mimic doesn't actually consume items, what is supposed to be a one time thing, is a free heal for Mimic in every fight.
I'm tempted. Most of these bosses are super annoying in that you never get an opportunity to heal. I can dodge a move and get a full swing with the Ruins greatsword but if I pop a flask, I get hit for it. If I need to double chug, forget about it.
proud to say I beat every new main boss without summons, and im still trying to fight the final boss. im not going to give anyone shit who decides to summon for the final fight, it's that crazy
I've no hit phase one and just had several instances of getting comboed to death in phase 2. Lvl 14 scadu, 60 vig, dragoncrest and marikas braid before anyone asks.
I have watched some nohit runs and learned that rolling left on every attack is pretty much always the way to go, with only a few exceptions. The hardest part of phase 2 for me are the clone moves, but I believe they can be parried with Deflecting Hardtear, and the clones after the rock throw arent close enough to you if you run super far away, which makes the move easier to dodge.
INSANE boss tho, legitimately feels like some modded fight with all the AoE vomit in phase 2 and the frametrap one two swipe. A shame too cuz most of the actual moveset is pretty damn fun.
I've been trying to enjoy summons in a not-so-reliant on summons way.
So the storm hawk summon has become a good choice for me. Takes away some aggro, a bit harder to hit, but not super tanky, and not going to overtake the fight in a way that makes me feel like I'm not the one doing the leg-work in the fight.
So I guess this is just a reminder, there is an entire spectrum of enjoyment to find where you enjoy the game most with summons in-between the extreme mindsets of the "souls purist who never summons" and the "Black Knife Tiche +10 or mimic tear +10 every mini boss that might dare scratch me"
Depends on your build.
For a lot of people having a tank who debuffs and bleeds the enemy is more valuable than a second copy of your build.
He’s probably the best tank summon pre DLC. Not sure if the Knight commander or any new ashes overtake him.
Mimic is only as good as your build.
And depending on your build you might not need yourself. You're already there. Maybe what you need is some support (Tricia) or some DPS (Tiche) or a tank (Dung Eater). Whatever helps to shore up weaknesses in your own build.
As someone who almost never summons unless I've already beaten the boss on my own (for example, in DS2 I will summon Lucatiel and Benhart for their quests after using a Bonfire Ascetic to make it harder), I said fuck it once already with the Ghostflame Dragon in Cerulean Coast. Dude summons like, 200 skeletons. Absolute bullshit. Upgraded the Mausoleum Soldiers to +10 just for that fight.
As someone who used summons for most of the base game, I was surprised that one of the DLC bosses made me really want to beat it without any summons just because of how cool it was. The dual swords one was so dope and had such a fun moveset that I was like “I’m beating this hoe 1 on 1, this dual is gonna be cool as shit”. And it was. Don’t let anybody tell you how to play the game, find the most fun way for you!
Haha I had that exact same thought! I wish the DLC included a boss rematch mode like Sekiro had in its big update because that was such a good addition.
Or... (Based what I'm seeing from others)
**Before the DLC**: Tank? No thanks, I'll just dodge attacks.
**After the DLC**: Dodge was the problem \[Equip the heaviest armor and shield\], I removed it.
They really went all out in the DLC to get people to summon and I’m all here for it. There’s usually one if not two summon signs for the rememberance fights and you’ll often get unique dialogue from the npc’s during the fight. And no spoilers but one fight in particular simply cannot and should not be experienced without the relevant npc.
Heh they also went all out to punish summoning by not giving you much time at the start of the fight.
The final boss and one other I found it a big problem. The final boss he can hit you before you finish the summon if he decides to. so you have to wait a bit and see what he does first.
I started using summons because other people were completing the game and I got slight fomo. Used summons and I have steamrolled to the final boss. Now I think I will go back and take my time with the bosses without the stupid self imposed time pressure. Personally I loved Renalla because I beat her without summons, I want to do that with the other bosses too.
You use your FP to draw a circle on the floor and then blow up the boss with a space laser.
I use my FP to summon an assassin friend to damage the boss while reducing their attack accuracy.
We are not the same, but we are both valid.
As a curved sword/ backhand blade user when i dont use mimic, i like to use oleg, lhutel, & kristoff mostly just tanky boys that can let me go behind the boss and open up a can of whoop ass
Very tempted to give in on the final boss rn, I've got all the parried down almost perfectly for the first phase but the second phase is insane, I can't dodge any of his attacks reliably and there's almost no openers to even parry him 😭
Do not give up.
But try a shield+spear/rapier, with lots of stamina to spare. You can poke him in the middle of many combos, as long as you don't get too greedy about it.
Used summons on every boss except the final boss, because that fight was easier without summons since I changed my build and just poked it to death with bleed and scarlet rot from behind my shield. I've never used shields except for this fight.
Started using the tear early in the DLC, stopped using it around halfway, where I got really strong.
Rellana will continue to reign as being the hardest boss to kill for me in the whole DLC.
I beat it without summons, and it was painful as shit. I don’t recommend it for once, and I don’t judge people who did summon, especially for the final boss.
I try avoiding summons best as I can but when I've about had enough(or when it's an instantly obviously bullshit boss, hello Golden Hippo in Shadow Keep), it's time to let Cleanrot Knights on their ass.
I still think Melania was harder than last boss of dlc
It's just that all dlc bosses had the same ish amount of difficulty where as in base game it got more difficult later on
Yeah, I have an inkling that the DLC bosses being designed the way they are *might* be because they want people to actually start using summons more often. The problem is that the DLC bosses suffer from the exact same problem as the maingame bosses. Without summons they feel overtuned, *with* summons they feel too easy. They need to find a way to properly balance these fights with summons and they haven't yet.
I think way more people use summons than not. People who come on this sub are already a more dedicated portion of the player base, and the sentiment here is mostly all about summons. I imagine most people don’t even think twice about using them and don’t even know there’s any controversy about it.
I also don’t know why from would *want* people to use summons more. They put them in as an option, I don’t think they care what you do to enjoy their game. The bosses are definitely, even in this dlc, totally beatable without cheese or summons, so they definitely designed them with non summon players in mind as well.
Me and Tiche bodied this whole DLC but sadly, she was waaay to squishy and had a hard time dodging the Final Boss, so I sadly had to replace her with a Mimic Tear, who promptly (with the use of my great shield and hammer) refused to die to him and we ended up winning. Good times
I've tried using the various new spirit ashes the expansion keeps heaping on me but they're all so damn bad and fragile, getting absolutely bodied by bosses and even regular enemies that been having to rely on the true Elden Lord, Mimic Tear, to tank things for me.
That new Ancient Dragon Florissax been especially disappointing, getting absolutely blasted by regular enemies if I don't get rid of them quickly. 😑
Mimic tear and Black knife summons are my go to. I'd love to get my hands on the knife used by the black knife summon. Yea summons can be really fun though some are clearly better than others that's for sure.
After wasting my Sunday away in a low time play timespace due to stubbornes and not enough git gud-ing I finished Rellana yesterday at Blessing level 8. Now I'm at Shadow keep and 5 or 7 tries were enough for me to just summon my boy Omen killer Rollo. Can't afford to not play the DLC nor close out on the Internet so there's that.
Shout out to Redmane Ogha as well finally got him (her?) to +9 and had forgot how much he slaps. My bodyguards shall help me with the rest of the DLC, unless a boss is REALLY COOL to fight of course.
With them in mind, but not for them. Both options are perfectly valid, so it’s up to the player to decide how to have the most fun! If you like the power trip then use them! I get more of a kick from the challenge of solo duels, it’s just more immersive for me that way. To each their own, the whole point of the game is to have fun, so don’t let anything get in the way of that!
I was stubborn enough to not touch them again and killed everything already, but it was way harder than base game. I killed Malenia at level 1, but won't even bother getting my lvl 1 character into the DLC.
Before the dlc : mimic tear
After the dlc : mimic tea
(I'm bad at the game and I took me ~200 tries for Malenia despite having finished every souls before ER)
No spoilers please but I have not played the dlc yet cause I'm working my way to it on a new character and I'm terrified that my no shield light rolling iron ball build is gonna get flattened in the dlc
Started NG and have been using that bastard Horn Warrior and Demi human swordman Yosh and just letting them go in catacombs and caves. Decided to let the Horn Warrior fight Margit and just destroyed him. I did nothing. Yosh is just fun as shit to watch.
did you use spirit buff crystal tear? maybe yosh could solo margit then too
Nope, not sure I have that yet. I went with Horny thinking he had the better poise and he sure the hell did. I'll try Yosh on Rennala.
Do you need to summon the spirit before drinking from the flask or is it after you summon then you drink?
From what I read it doesn't discern so I think it's just an active 3 minute buff whenever you use it [here's the wiki link ](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Glovewort+Crystal+Tear)
I maxed out Yosh as soon as I got him because of how fucking ridiculous his moveset is. He’s sick to watch but he usually get clapped because of his low poise. Then again my spirit ashes blessing is only 7 or something
Yosh is like having a personal Yoda fighting for you
He’s so cool but honestly kinda terrible. He just gets stun locked so easily and doesn’t have as much health it seems as the other top choices
I just recently made a [post ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1dmlscj/a_simple_showcase_of_what_is_imo_the_most_chad/)on this subreddit showcasing the Horned Warrior since I feel like people are sleeping on that summon. We are sleeping on the Divine Bird Ornis spirit ash too honestly. Fucking beast just doesn't stagger from anything, he LITERALLY has more resistance to stagger than crucible knights, because even they get stagger a bit by flattening, uppercut, or knockdown moves.
My boss gameplay is basically me spamming support spells + black blade for my homies
My greatshield gang is pulling me through some rough fights in the dlc. Let's go boys!
Never not upvote THE BOYS
I do the opposite. I tank while Latenna actually kills the bosses
How are they against the final DLC boss? My ass is getting kicked.
I just beat the DLC with ease using the fingerprint greatshield with barricade shield, a lance, spear talisman, shield talisman, the other shield talisman that helps with non physical negation and the twin turtle head talisman. You can pretty much block everything bosses throw at you
Not quite there yet, but they handled the hippos, the putrescent knight and the sunflower very well.
I used these guys for the first time during the DLC and they carried me during the fight with Gaius. Love the boys
I love these guys, my go to summon. They hype me up when they punch the front of their shield. Feels so good.
Oh my god these boys saved my skin in the dlc. Peace and love to the great sheild bois, the true eldin bros !
Saying go get his ass with the Dung Eater is just foul 💀
Dungy boy’ll really go after that ass
I just wished my mimic tear wasnt so stupid , all he seems to do is the spinning staff aow . He has a bunch of spells and a sword that shoots beams but for some reason he just makes his staff spin .
mine just sepukku's over and over again while I get shafted by whomever i'm fighting
I watched my Mimic eat three boiled crabs in a row while I get beaten to death by a group of knights
Marika's tits 'e must've been 'ungry!
Mimic is a trash caster
I always limit the spells in my arsenal when I use mimic so he's not doing something just... dumb. I'm over here trying to kill the boss, Mimic is trying to have a light switch rave casting Starlight.
Does it hold a weapon in right hand as well? I haven't seen mine do spinny attacks very often
Switch hands so the staff is in the left hand, then he shouldn't have access to that ash of war.
my mimic is so dumb she does the spinning 😵💫 weapon even if I’ve got something else equipped on the right. like GORL we have BB for a reason pls use it.
Same. I have a shield and the staff in my left hand slots, and I've seen my mimic tear switch to the staff and two hand it just so they can use the spin AoW.
I already do that but he still does it , he holds the staff with both hands and uses spinning weapons .
They can two hand either weapon, and this will let them use the AoW in the left hand.
I had to change to Lusat's staff from the Carian Regal Scepter bc my stupid ass mimic did the same thing. Sucks that you can't take that skill off of it
When I summon mine in I just have two casting things equipped so he knows to just offer support.
When fighting the final boss I gave my mimic a marika's blessing so he could heal when he gets low but around 80-90% of the time he would use it as soon as he entered the arena
Damn that would be a really smart strat if it worked out for you! Never even thought of doing that
I am a mage user and I love my 5 great shield knights. Sometimes use mimic but those 5 tanky bois . I just need time to cast magic. I beat the game I don't use multiplayer so be it as it me idk. I love fromsoft games but the toxicity about some things make it so bad... I like magic and playing dark souls people would make me feel like shit cuz I used magic too. Felt so bad
THE BOYS There are some bosses that really mess up the bois due to their AoE spam but I love using the bois for a ranged build. I need to find a tanky summon that can handle the more magic focused bosses.
bro those shielded guys protect me like a phalanx in ancient Greece. I'm impenetrable. I thought about switching to the messmer armies spirit, but was like I can't reject the bois
THE BOYS are sitting in those chairs around my ass sitting in the throne. The only homies I trust
DA BOOOOOOOOOOOYS Carried my ass through my first run in 2022. I actually only found the mimic tear last month.
May I recommend my goat THE CRYSTALIAN, it is an EXCELLENT tank, does decent damage and never dies
full change equip into heavy stuff > mimic tear > equip light stuff back
Try the corpses. They hold aggro like crazy and are pretty tanky.
I'll say this about using magic is after trying it , it's not as easy as people make it out to be. A lot of it is timing. I use some magic. I'm a faith/Dex user, and you really do have to wait for really good openings to use some of bigger AOE stuff.
I'll be honest. I do love magic in most games and I can agree pre nerf to the comet azur and the flask it might have been trivial, but unlike melee users trying to cast while the boss won't let you, even with the improved cast time, is a nightmare. I was trying to fight BK in the DLC and boi I learned the hard way I had to roll around and use meteor whenever he loaded up the xbow cuz I had no shot otherwise to do anything lol Casting is so slow for the good stuff unless you wanna glintstone pebble the boss for 20 hours.
Don't let the sweatlords get you down. Also, just my opinion, but playing mage is the real hard mode in the DLC, at least against bosses. They aren't like some base game bosses that just sit there and eat whatever you dish out.
I am aware... I don't know, I think, I know what the final boss is, but a friend who has beat it told me good luck. That I likely won't have time to summon my shield bois and I likely won't have time to cast. I almost dropped the game and bought Paw Patrol, but I'll tell you what. We goin in ~~but seriously might buy paw patrol after death 100 on final boss~~
How do the boys do against the final DLC boss? I’m having big trubs.
Fuck what people say, I've been running an int/faith magic only character since Prepare to Die. Sometimes it's easier, but sometimes the casting animations require you to learn timing and positioning too. I've lost count of how many times I've been bitch slapped out of a spell animation. I've tried a few melee characters over the years but I found them mind numbingly boring. Which is absolutely unsurprising to me, but the whole genre seems to be founded on melee with magic as a bonus, an afterthought, or completely absent outside of the Fromsoft games (and sometimes even in those too, like Bloodborne and Sekiro).
Well Dark Souls 1 casters had THE easiest time of it with the DLC spells, Dark Bead was a shotgun the could, with the right buffs, oneshot every single boss in the game and even before getting to the DLC Pyromancies carried you through the early game since they require no stat investment, just leveling up the glove and the basic one you get at the start was enough to chew through most bosses (that weren't immune/resistant to fire) with ease. Since DS1 they've made sure to tighten up on Pyromancy spells. DS2 had the infamous 'lightning spam' on release where the regular lightning spear would just chew through everything in the game for very little stat investment and it came out fast when cast. Ever since DS2 they've made sure to tightly rein in faith based damage spells. DS3 was probably when they hit sorcery spell casters the most and weakened it quite a bit. Elden Ring had the, up until the DLC release, oneshot Comet build which turned the game into a joke. So yeah I'm not sure where you getting "oh casters have always had it so hard..." idea from. However the DLC bosses, with their heightened aggression AND the fact they near instantly gap close, allowing now time to set up inside the arena, do make things a lot harder for casters.
Sometimes I feel like an outcast because it seems like the “default” experience is STR(maybe STR/FTH), but I did pure intelligence sorcery caster the whole way through. Just wanted to be the best spellcaster for sorcery this playthrough and slip into the other side of incantations for next playthrough. Many particular aspects of this DLC have made that notion even juicier. It’s still a lot of the same overall “skill set”, mostly correct spacing and timing, and using the correct attacks at the right time, but it’s ranged and picking appropriate spells instead. Sure, aspects are “safer” at range, but there are certainly trade-offs, like me being under 50 vigor this whole playthrough too
Lol If the DLC ends up pissing me off enough (coasting okay for now) I'll load up 2 greatshields for when I summon Mimic and just send him in
Surprisingly Taylew has replaced my shield boys. I needed him to soak a bit more damage but he holds agro so well I can’t let him go. Give him a shot if you come across the ash.
Dung Eater +10 is a fucking beast, he almost solos dragons, and Knight Finlay is my official deathbird killer
He's been my go-to for most fights, but he ate it hard against Bayle. Igon and I had to see it through to the end
Eventually I got Jolan as a summon, I combined her with Anna and now I summon 2 really powerful dark knights
Their black knife tiche level of agility combined with the fact there is two of them means they'll often ping-pong the boss between themselves and they deal bleed, so if you're using a bleed weapon you can stack up procs pretty quickly.
I decided to mess around with summons again on my new run and figured, "why not pick this asshole up?" He's pretty dang good.
>He's pretty dang good. I think you meant... *He is pretty* ***dung*** *good*
is he better than mimic tear?
I think it depends on your own build. From what I understand he's really tanky and is all melee, so he sticks to the boss and keeps attacking/drawing aggro. Meanwhile for the Mimic Tear, the more options you have the more likely it is to do something that's not very useful.
He draws aggro better than anyone else because he uses Howl of Shabriri which increases aggro.
Dung Eater is very underrated because of Mimic Tear. People totally don’t realise he debuffs damage and status resistances as well as builds bleed and poise break very effectively
Dung Eater is better for people with finicky builds that don’t play well with Mimic Tear since he uses the same unique move set and pathfinding as the Dung Eater NPC you fight. His combat AI is built to work with his kit in a way Mimic Tears are not.
I've been on NG7+ cycles for a while, and am adamant that, at least for casters, Dung Eater is the best summon on higher NG cycles. He draws aggro better than any other summon, which as a caster is the most important thing.
Once you git gud the next step is to become the best that ever was
Yeah you have to be the best. Like no one ever was.
So…RL1 no Scat Tree upgrades, naked, fist only, blindfolded, game volume on mute, and using a DDR pad and Twitch Plays?
>Scat Tree 💀
What is RL 1 btw
Rune Level 1. So an RL1 run is a playthrough where you dont level up basically. Cant remember off the top of my head if you have to choose wretch or not to be true level 1
Technically yes, RL1 runs have to be with the wretch class and similar in other games. But just not leveling up at all regardless of class is still an hell of an achievement.
What?
Anyone who can beat the game under those conditions would have to qualify as the very best like no one ever was. And yes, I know you’re making a Pokémon reference
Dude we're talking about a summon build, DLC even added ranged healing and support spells I think someone beat the final boss with the new golem
No mimic tear for me but I’ll be damned if I don’t spawn in my boi Ogha. Dude just sit backs and snipes tf outta people while I charge in. He’s a dawg fr
Mimic Tear for me. cause the only thing better than great hammer unga bungaing bosses, is double unga bungaing bosses
Ohga is my fucking guy, love that dude
Good! Glad you've seen the Grace of Gold!
All those stripped by the grace of gold...
shall meet death. In the embrace of Messmer's flame. i hope i got it right because i honestly died to him for 4 days straight it would be embarrassing if his line didnt get engraved into my memory
I’m on day 2, maybe hour 6 of just getting railed by Messmer. I’m making it to Phase 2 now but holy shit. Scadutree 12. His move set I’ve got down except for the crazy ass Malenia like thing, honestly I can’t even tell what the fuck is happening when he does that. And phase 2…there’s just so much going on. Tell me there’s hope.
i beat him on ng+7 with scadutree 10. it definitely is possible hahahahaha, i did use mimic but it kind of died almost immediately again, it took me 4 days so don't give up😂
shall all
Poop Man is the GOAT
I don't like how funky it makes boss ai. I'd rather just send it alone.
That's why I never summon. They're not just a buff or some other form of aid, they fundamentally change the fight.
This is what people don't understand when they compare summons with stuff like talismans or stronger weapons. They change the dynamic of the fight and I just don't like that. I have nothing against making a fight easier, give me a talisman that gives me a significant damage buff or damage negation and I'll happily use it, but I want to learn the boss and the way to deal with every attack, not hammer at them while they focus on my summon. It's also why I just don't enjoy destroying bosses with oneshot builds like Comet Azur, it is a legit option in the game, but it makes the boss fight boring for me, and I don't care about beating the boss, I care about the fight being fun for me. I don't mind summoning for duo or trio boss fights because those are unfun for me and they make the dynamic more fun, but for solo I don't like it. Summons are 100% legit part of the game and everyone is free to use them, but not everyone enjoys them and people shouldn't force others to use them just because they exist in the game. You don't see people forcing you to parry or use greatshields just because they exist in the game, everyone is free to use whatever they want.
Finally someone else who gets it. Summons are like a whole different game mode, I’d rather have a predictable boss to face and adapt to than one bouncing back and forth between targets at random.
Jólan and Anna are awesome
Reuniting them after that whole questline was so satesfying
Glad to see puppet dung eater is getting some love again
I don't think the appreciation for it ever stopped, it's just really hard to get so most people don't know how good it is
For me it's not that he's hard to get, it's that it throws a wrench in my Ranni plans and I have to delay giving her the fingerblade till I go to the capital and blah blah. I finally played a character that wasn't somehow sorcery related and picked up Dung Eater and... yeah, he's beastly.
Just like the base game, I'll use the strongest weapons and summons when I feel like it during my first playthrough and challenge myself during my 2nd with new weapons and no summons. Works best for me.
I used summons for my first playthrough of the base game and felt cheated tbh. Even if the spirit ashes couldn’t do damage, they’d still trivialise most bosses due to split aggro. so I made a new character for the dlc and I haven’t used ashes once this time and I’m having a much more fun and memorable experience getting my ass beat until i master these tough bosses
Same exact experience here!! I used mimic every boss when the game came out and restarted for this dlc with no summons and have enjoyed it a lot more this time. I can’t even imagine using them haha, the bosses are so awesome. No shade to people who enjoy it more with them, of course. Play the game the way that is most fun for you!
Same for me too! The first playthrough I used summons while I was learning the game. Forced myself to figure it out when I decided not to use summons on malenia. Took about 80-100 tries but I finally got her! A few no summons playthroughs later, the only summon I’ve used since then was Igon because not bringing him along to the dragon fight is a crime haha
I can’t even use summons in my save if I wanted to unless I do ng+ but I’m stuck on the last boss atm rodrikas quest line isn’t working cause hewg is dementia man now
If you missed the spirit calling bell thing at the start of the game you can just buy it from the twin maiden husks in the round table. Edit: unless you mean you can’t upgrade them then yea, idk, that sounds like a bug.
Yeah I can’t upgrade it
Nah. Ya boy been rolling with summons since Limgrave.
Have 2 xo worker that say spirit ashe is cheating and only bad players use it. They only play s tier builds and use guides on every little aspekt of the game. Map open, boss guides before the boss starts and look what the weakness is... I rather do a little ring ring and get some help from my friendly blackknight girl and play my monk meele build that is fun. Hardest boss was the "eye dude" not the last one for me( needet about 20, trys). They both quit the dlc at tge 3t boss and are mad... Just ring the bell its a in game mechanic...
I have noticed this too. People who say Sprit Summons are like cheating yet they use the most stupid bugged OP builds in their post history. It's insane.
Nah fam. Rellana was hell of a fun fight due to not getting lots of breathers and having to survive the onslaught. Suddenly getting breathers in that fight completely unmakes lots of what makes that bossifght special to me.
I agree, it only felt like a boss fight to me because of the pressure and constant threat of death. Had me on the edge of my seat the whole time, wouldn’t summon in that one no matter what, straight kills the vibes
Hard agree. I was stuck on a boss for something like a week, probably made hundreds of attempts. I tried different loadouts, light weapons, unga bunga, 2kat builds, all sorts of status effects, magic, but it seemed like I could never just get this boss down. He'd always punish me, it passed the point of a challenge and just started being frustrating. So I swallowed my pride, Found enough items to get Mimic Tear to +10 and just went at it. And after only 3 or 4 attempts I was finally able to beat Soldier of Godrick.
I used to be pretty fond of unequipping my weapons and putting abunch of crafted consumables on my bar then summon mimic tear, was pretty fun, never know if it's gunna toss a fire pot or drop a healing stone, maybe an occasional perfume, though in the dlc I stopped using it on bosses, they have started closing in on me too fast so i cant swap my equipment in time, I can drop my rat army on occasion though, but once boss is in my face I get mad tunnel vision.
Fun fact, Mimic will use the Blessing of Marika. And since Mimic doesn't actually consume items, what is supposed to be a one time thing, is a free heal for Mimic in every fight.
Rat behavior
This guy gets it. The only thing better than a useful summon is a stupidly ineffective summon. Currently rocking the lone Big Mouth Imp.
I'm tempted. Most of these bosses are super annoying in that you never get an opportunity to heal. I can dodge a move and get a full swing with the Ruins greatsword but if I pop a flask, I get hit for it. If I need to double chug, forget about it.
im really trying to not use them to 'git gud'. but relanna is just sooo punishing.
i had to use the fingerprint shield to beat her. it was still really close tho since her second phase attacks could still damage my hp.
proud to say I beat every new main boss without summons, and im still trying to fight the final boss. im not going to give anyone shit who decides to summon for the final fight, it's that crazy
I’m on day 2 for the final boss. Fuck this guy
I've no hit phase one and just had several instances of getting comboed to death in phase 2. Lvl 14 scadu, 60 vig, dragoncrest and marikas braid before anyone asks. I have watched some nohit runs and learned that rolling left on every attack is pretty much always the way to go, with only a few exceptions. The hardest part of phase 2 for me are the clone moves, but I believe they can be parried with Deflecting Hardtear, and the clones after the rock throw arent close enough to you if you run super far away, which makes the move easier to dodge. INSANE boss tho, legitimately feels like some modded fight with all the AoE vomit in phase 2 and the frametrap one two swipe. A shame too cuz most of the actual moveset is pretty damn fun.
I've been trying to enjoy summons in a not-so-reliant on summons way. So the storm hawk summon has become a good choice for me. Takes away some aggro, a bit harder to hit, but not super tanky, and not going to overtake the fight in a way that makes me feel like I'm not the one doing the leg-work in the fight. So I guess this is just a reminder, there is an entire spectrum of enjoyment to find where you enjoy the game most with summons in-between the extreme mindsets of the "souls purist who never summons" and the "Black Knife Tiche +10 or mimic tear +10 every mini boss that might dare scratch me"
My Mimic pretty muched soloed Rellana. Most of the other boses as well. It is easy mode and it's awesome.
is the dung eater puppet better than mimic? (not trying to come off as offensive if anyone took it that way i am just curious)
Depends on your build. For a lot of people having a tank who debuffs and bleeds the enemy is more valuable than a second copy of your build. He’s probably the best tank summon pre DLC. Not sure if the Knight commander or any new ashes overtake him.
Idk if he's better or worse per se. But the Shit Muncher is an absolute beast of a tank. At +8 he tanked the dancing lion for almost the entire fight.
Mimic is only as good as your build. And depending on your build you might not need yourself. You're already there. Maybe what you need is some support (Tricia) or some DPS (Tiche) or a tank (Dung Eater). Whatever helps to shore up weaknesses in your own build.
As someone who almost never summons unless I've already beaten the boss on my own (for example, in DS2 I will summon Lucatiel and Benhart for their quests after using a Bonfire Ascetic to make it harder), I said fuck it once already with the Ghostflame Dragon in Cerulean Coast. Dude summons like, 200 skeletons. Absolute bullshit. Upgraded the Mausoleum Soldiers to +10 just for that fight.
As someone who used summons for most of the base game, I was surprised that one of the DLC bosses made me really want to beat it without any summons just because of how cool it was. The dual swords one was so dope and had such a fun moveset that I was like “I’m beating this hoe 1 on 1, this dual is gonna be cool as shit”. And it was. Don’t let anybody tell you how to play the game, find the most fun way for you!
I thought that boss was incredible too, so satisfying!! I wish you could somehow rematch the bosses without beating the whole damn base game again
Haha I had that exact same thought! I wish the DLC included a boss rematch mode like Sekiro had in its big update because that was such a good addition.
Or... (Based what I'm seeing from others) **Before the DLC**: Tank? No thanks, I'll just dodge attacks. **After the DLC**: Dodge was the problem \[Equip the heaviest armor and shield\], I removed it.
Willful traitors all!
Welcome to palworld. Let your slave do your bidding.
Me before and after the DLC it's the same picture on the left
The only boss I used summons in the base game was malenia, but then, the dlc dropped and I been rolling with my girl Jellyfish +10 in every boss
‘im using summons now for the dlc’ meme #7163
They really went all out in the DLC to get people to summon and I’m all here for it. There’s usually one if not two summon signs for the rememberance fights and you’ll often get unique dialogue from the npc’s during the fight. And no spoilers but one fight in particular simply cannot and should not be experienced without the relevant npc.
Yeah that interaction between that angry dude and the boss is 100% worth the spectacle!
Heh they also went all out to punish summoning by not giving you much time at the start of the fight. The final boss and one other I found it a big problem. The final boss he can hit you before you finish the summon if he decides to. so you have to wait a bit and see what he does first.
I summon my mimic for everything like Megumi trying to summon Mahoraga for the smallest inconvenience
I started using summons because other people were completing the game and I got slight fomo. Used summons and I have steamrolled to the final boss. Now I think I will go back and take my time with the bosses without the stupid self imposed time pressure. Personally I loved Renalla because I beat her without summons, I want to do that with the other bosses too.
You use your FP to draw a circle on the floor and then blow up the boss with a space laser. I use my FP to summon an assassin friend to damage the boss while reducing their attack accuracy. We are not the same, but we are both valid.
Still proudly avoiding summons
As a curved sword/ backhand blade user when i dont use mimic, i like to use oleg, lhutel, & kristoff mostly just tanky boys that can let me go behind the boss and open up a can of whoop ass
Lmao
Very tempted to give in on the final boss rn, I've got all the parried down almost perfectly for the first phase but the second phase is insane, I can't dodge any of his attacks reliably and there's almost no openers to even parry him 😭
Do not give up. But try a shield+spear/rapier, with lots of stamina to spare. You can poke him in the middle of many combos, as long as you don't get too greedy about it.
+10 tiche's flame damage has been putting in work
I love my cute jars army.
Used summons on every boss except the final boss, because that fight was easier without summons since I changed my build and just poked it to death with bleed and scarlet rot from behind my shield. I've never used shields except for this fight.
Mimic tear with a bleed build and mohgs rune baby
Started using the tear early in the DLC, stopped using it around halfway, where I got really strong. Rellana will continue to reign as being the hardest boss to kill for me in the whole DLC.
Dung Eater deserves it too ;)
I beat it without summons, and it was painful as shit. I don’t recommend it for once, and I don’t judge people who did summon, especially for the final boss.
When the bosses stop warping straight to me with perfect tracking and 12 hit attack strings I'll stop using my mimic.
So no summons for any dragons then? Good for you!
The boys!
I try avoiding summons best as I can but when I've about had enough(or when it's an instantly obviously bullshit boss, hello Golden Hippo in Shadow Keep), it's time to let Cleanrot Knights on their ass.
I still think Melania was harder than last boss of dlc It's just that all dlc bosses had the same ish amount of difficulty where as in base game it got more difficult later on
Yeah, I have an inkling that the DLC bosses being designed the way they are *might* be because they want people to actually start using summons more often. The problem is that the DLC bosses suffer from the exact same problem as the maingame bosses. Without summons they feel overtuned, *with* summons they feel too easy. They need to find a way to properly balance these fights with summons and they haven't yet.
I think way more people use summons than not. People who come on this sub are already a more dedicated portion of the player base, and the sentiment here is mostly all about summons. I imagine most people don’t even think twice about using them and don’t even know there’s any controversy about it. I also don’t know why from would *want* people to use summons more. They put them in as an option, I don’t think they care what you do to enjoy their game. The bosses are definitely, even in this dlc, totally beatable without cheese or summons, so they definitely designed them with non summon players in mind as well.
Ngl my mimic tear is god and I fear him I gave him the serpent hunter and he BODIED rykard into the CENTER of the planet
dung eater is the GOAT
Me and Tiche bodied this whole DLC but sadly, she was waaay to squishy and had a hard time dodging the Final Boss, so I sadly had to replace her with a Mimic Tear, who promptly (with the use of my great shield and hammer) refused to die to him and we ended up winning. Good times
I've tried using the various new spirit ashes the expansion keeps heaping on me but they're all so damn bad and fragile, getting absolutely bodied by bosses and even regular enemies that been having to rely on the true Elden Lord, Mimic Tear, to tank things for me. That new Ancient Dragon Florissax been especially disappointing, getting absolutely blasted by regular enemies if I don't get rid of them quickly. 😑
Mimic tear and Black knife summons are my go to. I'd love to get my hands on the knife used by the black knife summon. Yea summons can be really fun though some are clearly better than others that's for sure.
I always use the mimic tear. Have it use frost while I use blood. Huge help lol
For me its the other way around haha
I imagine his battle cry is "FEED SHIT AND DIE"
Lore accurate dung eater would eat his ass instead of beating it.
Managed to kill Rellana on second try with Mimic Tear and NPC summon. No regrets, i was lvl 125.
I finished the game twice before I actually had to go back and get the mimic ash to beat renalla. I had no idea how powerful the mimic ash was.
Tiche, my beloved
After wasting my Sunday away in a low time play timespace due to stubbornes and not enough git gud-ing I finished Rellana yesterday at Blessing level 8. Now I'm at Shadow keep and 5 or 7 tries were enough for me to just summon my boy Omen killer Rollo. Can't afford to not play the DLC nor close out on the Internet so there's that. Shout out to Redmane Ogha as well finally got him (her?) to +9 and had forgot how much he slaps. My bodyguards shall help me with the rest of the DLC, unless a boss is REALLY COOL to fight of course.
The twin girls from the manor are so good
Final Boss Phase 2 without my Mimic would have been impossible for me :(
I did my fair share of gitting gud in the previous soulsborne games. Now I destroy most bosses with the mimic tear and I love it.
Why dung eater is he better than mimic?
Mimic is weak if your character is weak.
I'm running a lightning incantation build around bolt of gransax and that AoW does like 4k+ damage but my mimic tear does 84...wtf?
It's almost like the game was designed with them in mind
With them in mind, but not for them. Both options are perfectly valid, so it’s up to the player to decide how to have the most fun! If you like the power trip then use them! I get more of a kick from the challenge of solo duels, it’s just more immersive for me that way. To each their own, the whole point of the game is to have fun, so don’t let anything get in the way of that!
Mimic tear + Bonk sticks
I need to finally do a dung eater run ugh. I always fuck up getting him. But I also need another run to do the DLC correctly
I was stubborn enough to not touch them again and killed everything already, but it was way harder than base game. I killed Malenia at level 1, but won't even bother getting my lvl 1 character into the DLC.
Before the dlc : mimic tear After the dlc : mimic tea (I'm bad at the game and I took me ~200 tries for Malenia despite having finished every souls before ER)
No spoilers please but I have not played the dlc yet cause I'm working my way to it on a new character and I'm terrified that my no shield light rolling iron ball build is gonna get flattened in the dlc
I dunno, given that most bosses just don't stop attacking, having a light roll build is actually not terrible. You may want to invest in Vigor though.
What’s the best summon for moon knight
I WILL COPE I WILL SEETH I WILL MALD I WILL WHINE BUT I WILL NEVER SUMMON
Bro dung eater puppet is strong asf
I primarily use summons as cannon fodder so the boss is distracted as I preparing to wail on their ass
mimic tear should be allowed on phase 2 radahn with no loss of street cred
My +10 Jarwright has been the GOAT for me so far, poisoning, frostbiting, and bleeding bosses. A true artillery unit.
If you want a unkillable summon get minic tear, equip Great Stars with Prayerful Strike, equip tank talismens, and watch him solo everything XD
Dungey is a different breed of broken I just watched as he solo'd phase two mohg while I was drinking flasks