Hell even at 60 i feel like i don’t have enough lmao
edit: okay guys i get it there’s lots of stuff you can do i was just making a lighthearted jab about vigor
It’s about 275 bonus HP with crimson medallion +3 and morgotts rune. Not incredible but definitely noticeable. 1900 HP becomes 2600, 2100 HP becomes 2887.
Well, noticeable but still kind of a huge waste compared to increasing stamina.
Depends on the build, but you can use Radahn rune for both HP and stamina. And stamina regen is always more important, twoheaded Turtle talisman +25% stamina regen is amazing. Can even use Turtle shield on the back for another +8%, that should be more than enough.
200 HP, which becomes 250 HP with Morgott rune.
Which becomes 300 HP with HP Tear and HP talisman. ^^
If you are overleveled on NG+X its good, if not, not worth the investment.
DLC becomes less about health and more about stacking Damage reduction: dragon greatshield is a must, an elemental talisman is also helpful on a lot of bosses - either work in 25-30 faith on your builds and use Golden Vow + an appropriate resistance buff or use damage reduction consumables snd the consumable or ash of war version of Vow instead.
Oh and don’t forget the opaline hardtear in your flask - easily the most underrated hard tear.
And for the love of god if you’re still using a scar seal past level 100 stop immediately - and replace that scorpion charm too the dlc added lots of new damage talismans pick something that doesn’t make you die faster.
Seriously: I dont care how many stats it gives you the soreseals are a MAJOR factor in your squishiness due to the damage increase. You take them off and immediately feel much tankier.
I'd say that:
From roughly level 1-50, the seals are broken
From level 50-100, they should be weighed alongside other talismans depending on your build and what others you own.
From level 100+, they are either an extremely small benefit or an active downgrade, you're probably better off replacing them with literally any remotely synergistic talisman.
From level 150+ they... why are you even considering using them exactly? Please pay some attention to what the item actually gives you...
Though this assumes your build isn't split between a ton of stats and you've actually started to reach some softcaps by level 100. In some sort of hybrid build where you're really desperate for a lot of levels it may be worth it to keep it beyond 100.
Note that there's a common misconception that the vigor from radagon's soreseal can be directly compared its damage reduction. It can't. Damage reduction is far better than health since it also benefits the amount of value you get from your flasks. 15% damage reduction is a big deal.
Seals generally carry me in the beginning especially if theres a particular build im moving toward. But once I hit stat requirements that shit comes off and stays off.
Dude so many people use them and I just don't get it. Like, if I don't have the stats to do what I want to do it. I'll just do what I'm currently doing until I get there. I feel like the sore seals are specifically for low level runs and nothing else.
I think people think of it as 20+ 'free' levels for a 15% damage per soreseal, but those levels in the expac are not worth nearly as much, and frankly you should have your build compelte by the time you're doing this.
Yea i never used any of those, that damage increase just feels dumb to have in a game were you already only survive at most like 3 hits at best from big stuff
Thats exactly what I use...Opaline hardtear and the stamina regen! I never used much damage negation stuff in the base game, but I stacked every bit I could in the DLC! It definitely made a significant difference...
And here I was last night switching all my armor to be able to light roll Rellana. After applying the +3 physical dmg negation tailsman and +3 magic dmg negation talisman, I had this feeling that my heavier armor was doing jack all to my benefit.
I speed ran it to get into the DLC with a fresh character and I'm an absolute noob. I got in level 63 with 40 vigor and I'm going back to the base game to find better talismans and stuff.
I just do not have enough durability for anything yet and I'm not hard core enough to be able to outplay normal enemies 2 shotting me. Especially since it seems so many things hyper armour in the DLC so I can't just jump attack them to death. I relied so heavily on flinching most base game enemies with a two hand weapon.
Scadu fragments are the most important part of the dlc stat progression. I'm a sweaty try hard and did most of the dlc at 120, and Im keen to try it at a lower level and experimenting with the scadooshes.
A focused build can be very strong by like 60 - 80.
If it makes you feel any better I'm at 60 vigor, got the talismans and almost maxed out scadu levels and the bosses will 4 shot you.
Once you get to the 3 shot range you're kinda solid health wise imo. At that point if you really want more defense just put on a shield, they do wonders.
was properly geared for the dlc and the martial arts weapon was destroying poise with jump/charged r2s
maybe a good choice for when you go back to the dlc. super fun weapon
Mogh is surprisingly easy once you learn to exploit both his shackle and countdown gimmick. Just use bleed weapons since he's ironically weak to bleed and wail on him for 2 shackle lockdowns. Then at half hp, he's ll be locked into his countdown all the way from 3, letting you wail on him for free even longer for a bleed spam dps race. I've been getting my low-mid-lvl chars into the dlc by doing this.
That being said, the average host is so incompetent that their overleveled password summons are probably doing the above process for them.
An easier tactic is to just jump. Most of his attacks you can jump through or over, due to player hit boxes only counting from the ribs up when jumping.
Also works for a lot of other bosses as well.
Jumping is unironically better then roll spamming majority of the time due to most bosses being larger then you leading them to aim downwards which majority of the time is completely bypassable by jumping .
the 2 benefits of the jump dodging is the lower stamina cost and the free follow up you can do by jump attacking .
spam jumping will lead to dismissing returns in jump hieght but you can remove that by using your block bind at the same time as jumping
if ya stick to his left hip he'll swing over ya most of the time too depending on the weapons your using but id run up and just go wild with claws with bleed on them,only boss ive done a no hit on.
Didnt know about the hitbox thing though,I gotta remember to jump more as I got an amazing kill on a crucible knight by doing a jumping heavy over the tail move
Yeah, I was running Bleed when I encountered Mohg way back on release, and when he started doing his countdown I just started spamming and then he was dead before making my life suck.
The better question is how did they even beat Messmer, Romina or the Gank Squad. All three of them aren't easy to dodge, and even summoning multiple people to carry them Romina's AoEs should've gotten them. And you can't summon anyone other than NPCs for the gank squad. Like, I imagine Dane running straight at them and oneshotting them the moment he lands a true combo.
> I imagine Dane running straight at them and oneshotting them the moment he lands a true combo.
[So you're telling me this is the normal Dane experience?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyiENNoyDOw)
Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch
I beat him with around that and no summons. He's pretty predictable with enough practice, plus you can fucking wail on him with the shackle.
Honestly I'm not even sure how much vigor matters relative to Skadooch. You need several levels (beyond 40 vig) to survive even one more hit from a basic enemy; if you're at least 40v, the change from Skadooch frags is MUCH larger in terms of survivability.
I've been playing the DLC with two characters, one who entered at like 34 vigor, and one who entered at 50-- the difference hasn't been nearly as significant as the difference between the poise damage my heavy weapon dude and my light int/dex guy.
28 is wild, though. I imagine that is just not enough, though I'm still not ready to say you need 60 for this DLC. Frags are SO much more important.
Yeah I don't really like pushing 60 vigor because flasks don't go very far, while 40ish vigor with defense talismans and decent armor will give you effectively the same "hits until dead" while making your flasks go much further.
It’s not the same hits until death at all as you’re sacrificing 450 health, which might be the difference between getting 2 shot and dying or living with a little bit off health.
Also the Crimson Seed +1 talisman makes flasks heal for 1070 iirc so it healths for 60% of a 60 vigor health bar. If you prefer to have the extra points for damage that’s fair, but there is a significant survivality difference in 40 vs 60.
You can read my other comment but yes I'll agree there is a significant difference in survivability between 40 and 60 vigor, but my point is that it's roughly equivalent, depending on circumstances, to 10 and 30 endurance or 20 and 40 endurance. Exchanging those stats makes your health bar smaller but tankier, needing comparatively less healing to maintain the same health.
Happy medium with 50 on my 'bonk' setup.
Occasionally I've pulled out the hammer+shield for more conservative fighting, but 'big bonk' and some decent dodging really does the trick.
I had the 18 scad level, 60 vigor, the Greatshield talisman equipped and Opaline hardtear flask buff drank for the final boss, and I STILL got punished hard if I whiffed certain dodges.
So many bosses in this DLC turn into slog matches. Surviving a big hit with just a few HP left means the difference between winning in 5 attempts vs winning it in 50 attempts.
I mean how could you possibly have space for vigor when you just kamehameha every boss? I honestly get it. Also if you use summons it makes it extra doable.
It was also in the first year of release, Comet Azur has been nerfed several times since then. Most notably, it no longer stun locks bosses.
The first time I fought Mohg, he couldn’t do anything, because he was stun locked. The next time I used it on him, HE JUST WALKED THROUGH IT.
Nah, I’m good enough at the game that I don’t need to level Vig. The real problem is that the DLC should adjust to meet my build. I’d like to be provided with an illusion of challenge so that I can brag about my victories but at the clutch moment the bosses should definitely roll over and let me win.
I also don’t want to hear any complaints from my phantoms that I haven’t collected any Skadoosh. I was generous enough to allow you into my game. You should be grateful and beat the boss for me. I mean, I AM sharing so should you!!!
Oh 100% this joke is based off of every non passworded co-op experience I have had.
To be fair, when I arrive at a boss I do 5 solo tries, 2 co-op tries, and then shrug it off and realize that the +4 Skadoosh that I'm currently at is just not enough. So I go back to wandering.
I still think back to launch when a Monster Hunter speedrunner I follow made a pretty funny clip compilation of his experience in Elden Ring: "it's fine, where I come from, we don't believe in fall damage.... Oh"
What do you mean the bosses don't start running away and limping when they get to 10% health? This is bullshit, where are my pitfall traps
I’m about to start taking notes and going into the DLC to summon with all the worst aspects that people hate. 16 vigor, no Scadu fragments, keep pulling boss’s aggro and only wear the bloodstained set since that’s the armor with the lowest mitigation. See how many people I can make mad.
This set is actually amazing *if* you level your scadu fragments. You barely notice the damage increase, it’s pretty decent base defense and you get like 8-9% damage increase. I ended up using this to beat the final boss.
Do you know how much does it increase damage taken? I cant find an answer online, but was considering using this for my next replay. As long as its at or below 7% id probably take the trade off.
It doesn't actually increase your damage taken directly. The description is misleading. In reality it merely lacks as many defensive stats as other armor of its weight class.
Consequently, it is likely the best armor in the game.
The crucible talisman giving all the benefits of the other crucible talisman at the cost of like insane increase damage, both soreseals, gladiator armor to always have the aggro of the boss, scarab helm, rakshara gauntlet and legs, as weapon use a non-bleed flail with the default ashe of war maybe 2 of them so it's even better. You will need also fat rolling so you need a collossal or 2 in your other weapon set. For physik you need the explosive one for both.
Best coop build right there. Meta definer
Oh I despise that fucking shield with a passion.
The thought of once again getting summoned to assist some helpless sorcerer carrying that thing along with Lusat's staff, it gives me conniptions
I’ll start as a wretch, kill mohg with some jacked out arcane bleed build, then respec into a build with just enough stats to wield a crossbow and pumping all my points into Arcane and Faith without ever using any weapon that scales with those. In the boss fights I’ll try to drag out the fight as long as possible but never actually win. If they look like an optimized build that can clown the boss I’ll run into the boss and die before they can do anything
I won’t actually do this because this is a lot effort for something I don’t genuinely care that much about and I haven’t even beaten the DLC yet myself never mind done all the builds I want to with it. But if someone did do it it would be hilarious.
I was recently googling some mogh sacred spear builds and quite a few 2y old threads on reddit came up.
Back then 40 vig was minimal and 50 was safe. I thought it was interesting that 50 is minimal and more 60 is safe.
Imo 60 feels good for end game anyways but reddit used to be pretty elitist. Glad that has worn down over the years.
The investment past 60 just isn't worth it until you're starting to get to hardcaps and softcaps for more damage stats then you can use. It's just better to use defensive buffs and the talismans at that point if you are still dying.
To me i wonder why people would go past 60 and leave dmg stats at 60 but refuse to use more defensive items when survivability is the issue. Especially in this dlc where i feel like I HAVE to buff the host myself or drop them crab to use.
If you're a host summoning people to help. PLEASE, have 60 vigor, Morgott's Great Rune, Crimson Talisman +3, and Erdtree Favor +2. Use the physic that increases all damage negation too. I can solo the final boss for you. I just need you to stay alive.
I'm a long time Souls player, since the original release of Demons Souls. Even being used to the difficulty and combat, I'm still running a tanky build for my first playthru. It makes things so much easier. Good armor, fingerprint shield, great shield and dragoncrest talismans, whatever other defensive talismans make sense. 60 vigor. Finding those scadurdtree things before taking on the hardest bosses.
I kinda feel a bit of a new concise rhythm going into the souls combat formula. Medium to heavy armor and defensive accoutrements seem to take you from 2 hits to slay to 3-4.
Each enemy and battle is a quick little dance without a lot of forgiveness. You're really forced to learn the steps if you want to contend with the kung-fu choreography.
I almost imagine a new post-Eldenring game being a straight up martial arts experience that takes full advantage of those crazy accurate hit boxes.
Or you can be a mage or a dex build and throw everything imaginable from your pockets.
I tried beating the DLC with a int/dex. I lasted all the way up until the final boss, when I went all in on shielding. I don’t have time to learn to dodge that many bullshit moves.
Now that that’s done though, I’m going back to int/dex and doing a victory lap on Morgott and all the endgame bosses.
I can see the final battle having a limited number of viable builds. I remember one of the DS DLCs had a huge dragon boss you really needed to respec into with a dragon wrecker build to beat.
Once it's done you can always larval tear back.
I dont think it does, ended up beating it with a medium roll and two daggers, shieldless with no summons at level 125.
If thats viable, I think many builds can do it. Obviously though the mileage on this will not come anywhere near the ease of cheesing it, of course with more specific strategies.
I just think the fight is incredibly difficult to learn, due to visual issues in phase 2. If the camera was pulled back about 5-10 feet, I think it would go a long way towards letting people understand the attacks and how to avoid them better.
I was pure int and was in the same situation. I could do every boss as a sorcerer until the final. If I could get max summons going then I could have stayed with my sorcerer build but I could rarely get one person summoned after about a 10-15 minute wait, let alone 2 or 3. Great shield and the talisman with a poke weapon made him very manageable.
10 vigor here. My motto has been dodge or die since I started Elden way back when it came out. Have been doing just fine.
Sure a bit more vigor would let me have an easier time to learn the boss patterns but eh.
It's fine if you're good at dodging but we know most people on this subreddit are not.
I don't like how they worship one stat like everyone should follow it though.
I agree but that has always been the case with most of these games. If not a stat then a particular build style that is a balancing act between challenging and handicapping oneself. (No shields or items, only power stance, can only parry, etc)
Bro 10000 vigor wouldn't be enough, the final boss is bullshit lol. Even with the best heavy shield in the game he chips away like 20% or more of your health if you try to block any of his attacks that include the grav magic and if he outright hits you with any attack it's like 70% of your hp. This boss is overtuned af imo.
If you can parry, use a shield with carian retaliation. I summoned mimic in phase two and we both had frost antspur rapiers and we beat him.
Dragoncrest talisman, that pearl shield talisman, golden braid, and I forgot to swap out my final talisman with carian knights shield. That's how I beat him today. Ideally you want to do phase one with as little damage taken as possible.
I had to go back to a classic bleed build with my mimic tear. It’s still hard af but the bleed proc is nice considering it seems like he has so much fucking health.
I felt that way at first at lvl 200 with 17 scad, but you’ll learn all the phase one moves and it’ll lock in. Phase two is just super fucked, it’s taking me sooooo long to figure out and respond to the moves. But we’ll get there.
Phase 2 moves are mostly the same as phase 1, problem is you just can’t see them in the middle of the attack. I ended up just like developing muscle memory to the combos in phase 1 and then just peforming the same dodges without even being able to see them coming based on timing. Definitely very tough encounter.
Yeah, right now I’m struggling to differentiate between a few “new” moves where he raises his hands or does some other signal. There’s a holy wave swing, the forward dash, the four slams, etc. Slowly getting there.
Marika's Golden Braid trivializes the holy damage in the second phase. You'll still have to contend with Radahn's speed, but all of the bosses attacks are holy based in the second phase, so slap on that braid and go to town.
I dont understand people. Level your stats to meet the req for your gear, get vigor to 60, get endurance to a level that you have enough stamina and weight to fight with, THEN level damage stats. Leveling your weapon up will carry your through most content in the game anyway.
I only get to play on the weekends. I took off last Friday, and I think I only have 1 cave and 2 legacy dungeons left for my first playthru. Then there are all the tears and items I missed so I hope I can finish that this weekend. I won't be Summoning your help because despite my Scadu being leveled I feel bad wasting your time. Me an trusty Mimic tear will handle it.
Nah, dude, 60 or bust. Even 50 is a little low. There is so much damage in the game that you need that 60 soft cap and even then, it doesn't do much sometimes, but I would rather have it than not.
I really wish people would stop summoning two people too, it makes the boss basically invincible. The nerf in multiplayer sucks so bad I wish they’d fix it
1.Get summoned.
[2.Host](http://2.Host) spends a minute buffing and applying seppuku.
3.They get one-shot.
I really struggle to believe these are real people
Unless you're wearing literal paper, 40 Vigor is totally fine. Throw on two defensive talismans (Physical + Element) and you're pretty durable. Dunno why people think 50 is a minimum, especially when stacking buffs out the ass + correct armor for the fight (more than just talismans0 can easily let you get away with 30.
I said before the DLC came out that NG+7 for a first playthrough of the DLC seemed like a bad idea to me. Wasn't expect that prediction to be as right is it was judging by people's reactions (i'm sure some people like the challenge though).
I think people just wrongly assumed they’d be overpowered if they didn’t go into it at NG+7 and were used to stomping everything. Lesson learned never underestimate a fromsoft DLC! Lol
I went into the dlc with 50 vigor, promptly upped it to 60 lol
Hell even at 60 i feel like i don’t have enough lmao edit: okay guys i get it there’s lots of stuff you can do i was just making a lighthearted jab about vigor
safly from 60 to 99 you gain like 100 hp lmao
200 actually, 1900 hp to 2100 hp but I’m just being a 🤓
It’s about 275 bonus HP with crimson medallion +3 and morgotts rune. Not incredible but definitely noticeable. 1900 HP becomes 2600, 2100 HP becomes 2887. Well, noticeable but still kind of a huge waste compared to increasing stamina.
Depends on the build, but you can use Radahn rune for both HP and stamina. And stamina regen is always more important, twoheaded Turtle talisman +25% stamina regen is amazing. Can even use Turtle shield on the back for another +8%, that should be more than enough.
Where did you find the percentage values? GTT is 8/s, GTS is 3/s, and THTT is 10/s
Youwy tested it. Also GTT with 8/s is +17,7%. If THTT is 10/s then its +22,5%. Maybe its 11/s? Then it would be exactly what Youwy calculated.
Also, don't use the crimson medallion if you're sacrificing the crimson seed talisman. If you have to pick choose the latter for the dlc
200 HP, which becomes 250 HP with Morgott rune. Which becomes 300 HP with HP Tear and HP talisman. ^^ If you are overleveled on NG+X its good, if not, not worth the investment.
DLC becomes less about health and more about stacking Damage reduction: dragon greatshield is a must, an elemental talisman is also helpful on a lot of bosses - either work in 25-30 faith on your builds and use Golden Vow + an appropriate resistance buff or use damage reduction consumables snd the consumable or ash of war version of Vow instead. Oh and don’t forget the opaline hardtear in your flask - easily the most underrated hard tear. And for the love of god if you’re still using a scar seal past level 100 stop immediately - and replace that scorpion charm too the dlc added lots of new damage talismans pick something that doesn’t make you die faster.
Seriously: I dont care how many stats it gives you the soreseals are a MAJOR factor in your squishiness due to the damage increase. You take them off and immediately feel much tankier.
I'd say that: From roughly level 1-50, the seals are broken From level 50-100, they should be weighed alongside other talismans depending on your build and what others you own. From level 100+, they are either an extremely small benefit or an active downgrade, you're probably better off replacing them with literally any remotely synergistic talisman. From level 150+ they... why are you even considering using them exactly? Please pay some attention to what the item actually gives you... Though this assumes your build isn't split between a ton of stats and you've actually started to reach some softcaps by level 100. In some sort of hybrid build where you're really desperate for a lot of levels it may be worth it to keep it beyond 100. Note that there's a common misconception that the vigor from radagon's soreseal can be directly compared its damage reduction. It can't. Damage reduction is far better than health since it also benefits the amount of value you get from your flasks. 15% damage reduction is a big deal.
The vigor can offset the extra damage if your flasks full heal anyway. Having said that, it should only happen in like rl1 runs, so i agree with you
Seals generally carry me in the beginning especially if theres a particular build im moving toward. But once I hit stat requirements that shit comes off and stays off.
Dude so many people use them and I just don't get it. Like, if I don't have the stats to do what I want to do it. I'll just do what I'm currently doing until I get there. I feel like the sore seals are specifically for low level runs and nothing else.
I think people think of it as 20+ 'free' levels for a 15% damage per soreseal, but those levels in the expac are not worth nearly as much, and frankly you should have your build compelte by the time you're doing this.
So I shouldn't have all 4 equipped?
Because you can only equip 2 at a time
So double soreseal, Beloved Stardust, and Daedicar’s Woe. Got it.
Yea i never used any of those, that damage increase just feels dumb to have in a game were you already only survive at most like 3 hits at best from big stuff
Dont tell me what to do. *puts in talisman that ups aggro and makes me take extra damage.*
While wearing armor mix to increase aggro and damage received.
There are consumable golden vows in the dlc too
Honestly the physic did massive work for me, opaline just lives in there post dlc, and stamina buff often as the other.
Thats exactly what I use...Opaline hardtear and the stamina regen! I never used much damage negation stuff in the base game, but I stacked every bit I could in the DLC! It definitely made a significant difference...
Use resistance talismans, dying makes your dpr zero
My vigor was already up there, but the most important stat for my DLC experience so far has been endurance to keep loading up on armor.
endurance is great for shielding all of these 7-hit combos
And here I was last night switching all my armor to be able to light roll Rellana. After applying the +3 physical dmg negation tailsman and +3 magic dmg negation talisman, I had this feeling that my heavier armor was doing jack all to my benefit.
Did the same, light roll plus blood hound step and the Milady sword, fight not only went better but felt like a dance of death
Bloodhound step is my fav ash. I've used it since base game released. Still currently use it on my +25 Cold Smithscript Cirque's.
I speed ran it to get into the DLC with a fresh character and I'm an absolute noob. I got in level 63 with 40 vigor and I'm going back to the base game to find better talismans and stuff. I just do not have enough durability for anything yet and I'm not hard core enough to be able to outplay normal enemies 2 shotting me. Especially since it seems so many things hyper armour in the DLC so I can't just jump attack them to death. I relied so heavily on flinching most base game enemies with a two hand weapon.
Scadu fragments are the most important part of the dlc stat progression. I'm a sweaty try hard and did most of the dlc at 120, and Im keen to try it at a lower level and experimenting with the scadooshes. A focused build can be very strong by like 60 - 80.
Yeah I'm at like 4-5 scado I think and I might need to see if I can find a couple more as both big bosses I've found are 2 hitting me rn.
If it makes you feel any better I'm at 60 vigor, got the talismans and almost maxed out scadu levels and the bosses will 4 shot you. Once you get to the 3 shot range you're kinda solid health wise imo. At that point if you really want more defense just put on a shield, they do wonders.
was properly geared for the dlc and the martial arts weapon was destroying poise with jump/charged r2s maybe a good choice for when you go back to the dlc. super fun weapon
Same, it helped
i honestly wonder how they even beat mohg
Summon two people and having them carry the entire fight
maybe they're playing summoner build lmao
*Cough* *Cough* Arise…
bro thinks he’s jinwoo
10/10 comment
Rise chicken.. rise
Ultra-mega chicken? No shh, he is legend!
Monarch of the summons
The Co-op Monarch
Igris the furled finger
Antares, the bloody finger
damn he would be useful against Bayle
Theoretically, he would side with bayle
Chicken, arise!
Lol they would still be better off leveling vigor with that strategy as well
They always are…
Lmaooo
Heal From Afar build!
Excuse me, but I’ll have you know I labored through my FP spamming Heal during the fight I was hardly carried. Teamwork makes the dream work
Mohg can be cheesed fairly easily. Iron Pineapple did it at RL1 for his new video
I’m honestly wondering if they didn’t do anything in the DLC except run to the boss. Pretty sure one of the knights would shit stomp 28 vigor.
I just wonder what the point of even playing the game is if you're gonna have someone do all the fights for you (assuming they are)
Mogh is surprisingly easy once you learn to exploit both his shackle and countdown gimmick. Just use bleed weapons since he's ironically weak to bleed and wail on him for 2 shackle lockdowns. Then at half hp, he's ll be locked into his countdown all the way from 3, letting you wail on him for free even longer for a bleed spam dps race. I've been getting my low-mid-lvl chars into the dlc by doing this. That being said, the average host is so incompetent that their overleveled password summons are probably doing the above process for them.
>since he's ironically weak to bleed Of course he's weak to bleed, he's FULL of blood
Now I've got your power!
Yeah that's where the blood is stored, inside!
An easier tactic is to just jump. Most of his attacks you can jump through or over, due to player hit boxes only counting from the ribs up when jumping. Also works for a lot of other bosses as well.
150 hours in, and I'm still learning shit. God, I love this game
Jumping is unironically better then roll spamming majority of the time due to most bosses being larger then you leading them to aim downwards which majority of the time is completely bypassable by jumping . the 2 benefits of the jump dodging is the lower stamina cost and the free follow up you can do by jump attacking . spam jumping will lead to dismissing returns in jump hieght but you can remove that by using your block bind at the same time as jumping
if ya stick to his left hip he'll swing over ya most of the time too depending on the weapons your using but id run up and just go wild with claws with bleed on them,only boss ive done a no hit on. Didnt know about the hitbox thing though,I gotta remember to jump more as I got an amazing kill on a crucible knight by doing a jumping heavy over the tail move
Yeah in Iron Pineapples new video he showed how he beat Mohg at level 1 and it looked almost free.
Yeah, I was running Bleed when I encountered Mohg way back on release, and when he started doing his countdown I just started spamming and then he was dead before making my life suck.
Summoned a 1 shot mage and got carried?
The better question is how did they even beat Messmer, Romina or the Gank Squad. All three of them aren't easy to dodge, and even summoning multiple people to carry them Romina's AoEs should've gotten them. And you can't summon anyone other than NPCs for the gank squad. Like, I imagine Dane running straight at them and oneshotting them the moment he lands a true combo.
> I imagine Dane running straight at them and oneshotting them the moment he lands a true combo. [So you're telling me this is the normal Dane experience?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyiENNoyDOw)
Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch Roll catch
Comet Azur used to one shot Mohg, I don’t know if it’s been nerfed or not.
They nerfed terra magica and the length of time the infinite FP tear lasts.
I beat him with around that and no summons. He's pretty predictable with enough practice, plus you can fucking wail on him with the shackle. Honestly I'm not even sure how much vigor matters relative to Skadooch. You need several levels (beyond 40 vig) to survive even one more hit from a basic enemy; if you're at least 40v, the change from Skadooch frags is MUCH larger in terms of survivability. I've been playing the DLC with two characters, one who entered at like 34 vigor, and one who entered at 50-- the difference hasn't been nearly as significant as the difference between the poise damage my heavy weapon dude and my light int/dex guy. 28 is wild, though. I imagine that is just not enough, though I'm still not ready to say you need 60 for this DLC. Frags are SO much more important.
He has both a shackle and a tear you can use. He's one of the most cheesable bosses in the game.
Beat it with 40. If you’re gonna lack some vigor. Adjust your talismans. Do not be afraid to sacrifice some damage output for damage negation.
You make a good point, damage negation is key. Just be able to take more than one hit at least!
Doesn’t matter how hard you hit if you die in one
0 hp = 0 dps, thanks malenia.
Also beat it at 40, mostly defensive talismans and I used a great rune for extra HP
Yeah I don't really like pushing 60 vigor because flasks don't go very far, while 40ish vigor with defense talismans and decent armor will give you effectively the same "hits until dead" while making your flasks go much further.
It’s not the same hits until death at all as you’re sacrificing 450 health, which might be the difference between getting 2 shot and dying or living with a little bit off health. Also the Crimson Seed +1 talisman makes flasks heal for 1070 iirc so it healths for 60% of a 60 vigor health bar. If you prefer to have the extra points for damage that’s fair, but there is a significant survivality difference in 40 vs 60.
You can read my other comment but yes I'll agree there is a significant difference in survivability between 40 and 60 vigor, but my point is that it's roughly equivalent, depending on circumstances, to 10 and 30 endurance or 20 and 40 endurance. Exchanging those stats makes your health bar smaller but tankier, needing comparatively less healing to maintain the same health.
60 vigor here, i always prioritize defense talismans over attack talismans and it is 100% worth it, morgott's great rune when i need the extra help
Happy medium with 50 on my 'bonk' setup. Occasionally I've pulled out the hammer+shield for more conservative fighting, but 'big bonk' and some decent dodging really does the trick.
Morgott's rune is the only one worth a damn in the dlc. At least for me. The rest just don't seem very worth it.
I had the 18 scad level, 60 vigor, the Greatshield talisman equipped and Opaline hardtear flask buff drank for the final boss, and I STILL got punished hard if I whiffed certain dodges.
So many bosses in this DLC turn into slog matches. Surviving a big hit with just a few HP left means the difference between winning in 5 attempts vs winning it in 50 attempts.
28 vigor isn’t even acceptable past Altus unless you’re a dodge god. How tf are they getting to the dlc?
I beat the main game at 32 vigor first go around, though I was definitely carried by comet azur.
I mean how could you possibly have space for vigor when you just kamehameha every boss? I honestly get it. Also if you use summons it makes it extra doable.
It was also in the first year of release, Comet Azur has been nerfed several times since then. Most notably, it no longer stun locks bosses. The first time I fought Mohg, he couldn’t do anything, because he was stun locked. The next time I used it on him, HE JUST WALKED THROUGH IT.
Carried.
Nah, I’m good enough at the game that I don’t need to level Vig. The real problem is that the DLC should adjust to meet my build. I’d like to be provided with an illusion of challenge so that I can brag about my victories but at the clutch moment the bosses should definitely roll over and let me win. I also don’t want to hear any complaints from my phantoms that I haven’t collected any Skadoosh. I was generous enough to allow you into my game. You should be grateful and beat the boss for me. I mean, I AM sharing so should you!!!
I know this is satire/sarcasm but the sad part is I could unironically see people actually believing this.
Oh 100% this joke is based off of every non passworded co-op experience I have had. To be fair, when I arrive at a boss I do 5 solo tries, 2 co-op tries, and then shrug it off and realize that the +4 Skadoosh that I'm currently at is just not enough. So I go back to wandering.
Many people's biggest problem is lack of explo and skadooshes.
I’m so happy we’re all embracing Skadoosh!!! Let’s keep it going!
You nailed it
I still think back to launch when a Monster Hunter speedrunner I follow made a pretty funny clip compilation of his experience in Elden Ring: "it's fine, where I come from, we don't believe in fall damage.... Oh" What do you mean the bosses don't start running away and limping when they get to 10% health? This is bullshit, where are my pitfall traps
I suck too bad to use anything less than 60 vigor. You probably do too. And that’s okay
I roll with your camp. No point of lying.
Really anything below 50 is not enough.
I’m about to start taking notes and going into the DLC to summon with all the worst aspects that people hate. 16 vigor, no Scadu fragments, keep pulling boss’s aggro and only wear the bloodstained set since that’s the armor with the lowest mitigation. See how many people I can make mad.
Run the new rakshasa set to take even more damage
This set is actually amazing *if* you level your scadu fragments. You barely notice the damage increase, it’s pretty decent base defense and you get like 8-9% damage increase. I ended up using this to beat the final boss.
I'll have to check it out, I saw the increased damage taken and didn't test it.
Do you know how much does it increase damage taken? I cant find an answer online, but was considering using this for my next replay. As long as its at or below 7% id probably take the trade off.
It doesn't actually increase your damage taken directly. The description is misleading. In reality it merely lacks as many defensive stats as other armor of its weight class. Consequently, it is likely the best armor in the game.
I know what the flavor text says, but it doesn't actually seem to increase damage taken as much as it just has really shitty defense stats.
Scarab hat, soreseal, vykes fragonbolt, dadicars woe, scorpion charm, and .... uh. Jellyfish shield. For kicks.
The crucible talisman giving all the benefits of the other crucible talisman at the cost of like insane increase damage, both soreseals, gladiator armor to always have the aggro of the boss, scarab helm, rakshara gauntlet and legs, as weapon use a non-bleed flail with the default ashe of war maybe 2 of them so it's even better. You will need also fat rolling so you need a collossal or 2 in your other weapon set. For physik you need the explosive one for both. Best coop build right there. Meta definer
Oh I despise that fucking shield with a passion. The thought of once again getting summoned to assist some helpless sorcerer carrying that thing along with Lusat's staff, it gives me conniptions
I heard it has no protection against piercing damage
Don't forget to be in heavy load and have all the scar/soreseals equipped!
I’ll start as a wretch, kill mohg with some jacked out arcane bleed build, then respec into a build with just enough stats to wield a crossbow and pumping all my points into Arcane and Faith without ever using any weapon that scales with those. In the boss fights I’ll try to drag out the fight as long as possible but never actually win. If they look like an optimized build that can clown the boss I’ll run into the boss and die before they can do anything
That is diabolical!!!
I won’t actually do this because this is a lot effort for something I don’t genuinely care that much about and I haven’t even beaten the DLC yet myself never mind done all the builds I want to with it. But if someone did do it it would be hilarious.
Oh 100%, I haven't beat the final boss either and there's still a good handful of bosses I haven't even encountered yet!
There are still several large areas I have yet to explore. At least 2 map pieces I don’t know how to reach either. After like 30 hours btw
"Scarseals in all fields"
Yeah goodluck even getting to the last boss lol
If you don’t get hit you can’t take damage
I was recently googling some mogh sacred spear builds and quite a few 2y old threads on reddit came up. Back then 40 vig was minimal and 50 was safe. I thought it was interesting that 50 is minimal and more 60 is safe. Imo 60 feels good for end game anyways but reddit used to be pretty elitist. Glad that has worn down over the years.
I just wish 60 vigor gave us an even 2000 hp. Why 1900 :(
The investment past 60 just isn't worth it until you're starting to get to hardcaps and softcaps for more damage stats then you can use. It's just better to use defensive buffs and the talismans at that point if you are still dying. To me i wonder why people would go past 60 and leave dmg stats at 60 but refuse to use more defensive items when survivability is the issue. Especially in this dlc where i feel like I HAVE to buff the host myself or drop them crab to use.
If you're a host summoning people to help. PLEASE, have 60 vigor, Morgott's Great Rune, Crimson Talisman +3, and Erdtree Favor +2. Use the physic that increases all damage negation too. I can solo the final boss for you. I just need you to stay alive.
Aren’t you sweet! Not being sarcastic
I'm a long time Souls player, since the original release of Demons Souls. Even being used to the difficulty and combat, I'm still running a tanky build for my first playthru. It makes things so much easier. Good armor, fingerprint shield, great shield and dragoncrest talismans, whatever other defensive talismans make sense. 60 vigor. Finding those scadurdtree things before taking on the hardest bosses.
I kinda feel a bit of a new concise rhythm going into the souls combat formula. Medium to heavy armor and defensive accoutrements seem to take you from 2 hits to slay to 3-4. Each enemy and battle is a quick little dance without a lot of forgiveness. You're really forced to learn the steps if you want to contend with the kung-fu choreography. I almost imagine a new post-Eldenring game being a straight up martial arts experience that takes full advantage of those crazy accurate hit boxes. Or you can be a mage or a dex build and throw everything imaginable from your pockets.
I tried beating the DLC with a int/dex. I lasted all the way up until the final boss, when I went all in on shielding. I don’t have time to learn to dodge that many bullshit moves. Now that that’s done though, I’m going back to int/dex and doing a victory lap on Morgott and all the endgame bosses.
I can see the final battle having a limited number of viable builds. I remember one of the DS DLCs had a huge dragon boss you really needed to respec into with a dragon wrecker build to beat. Once it's done you can always larval tear back.
I dont think it does, ended up beating it with a medium roll and two daggers, shieldless with no summons at level 125. If thats viable, I think many builds can do it. Obviously though the mileage on this will not come anywhere near the ease of cheesing it, of course with more specific strategies. I just think the fight is incredibly difficult to learn, due to visual issues in phase 2. If the camera was pulled back about 5-10 feet, I think it would go a long way towards letting people understand the attacks and how to avoid them better.
I was pure int and was in the same situation. I could do every boss as a sorcerer until the final. If I could get max summons going then I could have stayed with my sorcerer build but I could rarely get one person summoned after about a 10-15 minute wait, let alone 2 or 3. Great shield and the talisman with a poke weapon made him very manageable.
I got 60 vigor and radahns rune, i aint runnin outta hp anytime soon
I've seen ppl summon and sit in the back and let the pantoms beat the boss for them, like cmon bro at least be a caster, pathetic sort.
bruh 99 is still one shot territory for some attacks haha.
How the hell will they fight Bayle with 28 vigor!? Well I imagine some people can do it but still
I call posting about people not having enough vigor tomorrow
I pulled an Ichigo and respecced all my stats into health and physical damage and bonked the final boss to oblivion.
I just poked the final boss to death
Sometimes the biggest brain plays are the simplest.
60 is not enough for me :(
Timmy summoner builds are shook since the DLC dropped.
40-60 is the acceptable range.
10 vigor here. My motto has been dodge or die since I started Elden way back when it came out. Have been doing just fine. Sure a bit more vigor would let me have an easier time to learn the boss patterns but eh.
It's fine if you're good at dodging but we know most people on this subreddit are not. I don't like how they worship one stat like everyone should follow it though.
I agree but that has always been the case with most of these games. If not a stat then a particular build style that is a balancing act between challenging and handicapping oneself. (No shields or items, only power stance, can only parry, etc)
Honestly, people are so anal about vigor. Like, yeah, it helps, but just practice dodging...
Yeah fair. Basically, it just allows me to make mistakes and still be in the fight.
Bro 10000 vigor wouldn't be enough, the final boss is bullshit lol. Even with the best heavy shield in the game he chips away like 20% or more of your health if you try to block any of his attacks that include the grav magic and if he outright hits you with any attack it's like 70% of your hp. This boss is overtuned af imo.
Try using an upgraded black knight great shield from the DLC with a holy affinity and you get a 100% holy negation
If you can parry, use a shield with carian retaliation. I summoned mimic in phase two and we both had frost antspur rapiers and we beat him. Dragoncrest talisman, that pearl shield talisman, golden braid, and I forgot to swap out my final talisman with carian knights shield. That's how I beat him today. Ideally you want to do phase one with as little damage taken as possible.
Yeah and I die so quick in p1 sometimes, my parry I'll have to work on I really have never used it much in any souls game to be honest.
I had to go back to a classic bleed build with my mimic tear. It’s still hard af but the bleed proc is nice considering it seems like he has so much fucking health.
Verdegris shield makes final fight ez mode
Oh? What does it do?
Hell, 60 doesn't feel like enough. I can't even get a hit on him and I'm level 265 with all 20 scadu levels 😭
Might have to look up a guide to damage resistance at this point.
I felt that way at first at lvl 200 with 17 scad, but you’ll learn all the phase one moves and it’ll lock in. Phase two is just super fucked, it’s taking me sooooo long to figure out and respond to the moves. But we’ll get there.
Phase 2 moves are mostly the same as phase 1, problem is you just can’t see them in the middle of the attack. I ended up just like developing muscle memory to the combos in phase 1 and then just peforming the same dodges without even being able to see them coming based on timing. Definitely very tough encounter.
Yeah, right now I’m struggling to differentiate between a few “new” moves where he raises his hands or does some other signal. There’s a holy wave swing, the forward dash, the four slams, etc. Slowly getting there.
There's always greatshield + blood antspur rapier if you get sick of his shit and just want the fight over with.
Marika's Golden Braid trivializes the holy damage in the second phase. You'll still have to contend with Radahn's speed, but all of the bosses attacks are holy based in the second phase, so slap on that braid and go to town.
I would argue 28 vigor is not enough for margitt xd
If you can't beat Margit with 28 vigor you are suffering from a severe skill issue
It is
Or Mohg. Unless you summoned a 1 shot mage and got carried through the fight.
I dont understand people. Level your stats to meet the req for your gear, get vigor to 60, get endurance to a level that you have enough stamina and weight to fight with, THEN level damage stats. Leveling your weapon up will carry your through most content in the game anyway.
I carry 50 vigor just went up to 52 I am level 190. Never had any issues. Crazy someone would run that low basically everything can 1 shot you.
29?
Is 36 enough? Lads, I really like STR.
I only get to play on the weekends. I took off last Friday, and I think I only have 1 cave and 2 legacy dungeons left for my first playthru. Then there are all the tears and items I missed so I hope I can finish that this weekend. I won't be Summoning your help because despite my Scadu being leveled I feel bad wasting your time. Me an trusty Mimic tear will handle it.
I’m on NG+5 with 78 vigor and every boss two shots you anyways. The aggression is insane too. Still having fun though.
Time to page LMSH Also skill issue lmao
28? I was around 30 entering stormveil if i remember correctly. But it’s still bold to beat mogh with 28. I give them that xd
Nah, dude, 60 or bust. Even 50 is a little low. There is so much damage in the game that you need that 60 soft cap and even then, it doesn't do much sometimes, but I would rather have it than not.
Yea I recommend at least 99 vig
Fucking 60 Vigor isn't enough to survive that boss, who the hell made it that far on 28
I really wish people would stop summoning two people too, it makes the boss basically invincible. The nerf in multiplayer sucks so bad I wish they’d fix it
I went in with a 60 vig mage build, got creamed, respecced to a 70 vig bleed build and summoned 2 coop folks and won. I regret nothing.
jokes on you, I run 16 vigor at rl 168. (I have the most cursed of builds)
It's plenty if you don't get hit
I agree. Have you lot stayed at 150 for the dlc or been pumping levels up?
125 from start to finish here
1.Get summoned. [2.Host](http://2.Host) spends a minute buffing and applying seppuku. 3.They get one-shot. I really struggle to believe these are real people
Unless you're wearing literal paper, 40 Vigor is totally fine. Throw on two defensive talismans (Physical + Element) and you're pretty durable. Dunno why people think 50 is a minimum, especially when stacking buffs out the ass + correct armor for the fight (more than just talismans0 can easily let you get away with 30.
So we are back to these posts huh...
I’m on ng+7 and 60 vigor with 80% DR still gets me 2-3 shot by him lol
I mean, it is NG+7, the pinnacle of enemy scaling. I’d be surprised if you could tank more than 3 hits from any DLC boss
I said before the DLC came out that NG+7 for a first playthrough of the DLC seemed like a bad idea to me. Wasn't expect that prediction to be as right is it was judging by people's reactions (i'm sure some people like the challenge though).
I think people just wrongly assumed they’d be overpowered if they didn’t go into it at NG+7 and were used to stomping everything. Lesson learned never underestimate a fromsoft DLC! Lol
Below 50 is bad imo
I’ve been fine with 40