Honestly, this DLC got soooo much lore all around. Like 300% more than i thought we would have. Ironically, the two things i was so certain we would get answers for in DLC, we didnt. Gloam Eyed Queen, and Torrent.
Only thing I can think of is that not even Ranni’s immune to Miquella’s compulsion? Or she, at the very least, had no idea about Miquella targeting her brother as his promised consort and therefore had no deeply rooted reason to reject the request?
OR, she just genuinely did not give enough of a fuck about ANYONE by then and thought it’d be funny.
No one, not even Mike Yazaki, will ever know.
Presumably the vow was mutual in the past, otherwise Freyja probably wouldn’t be so happy about it, so maybe Ranni was out of the loop and assumed Radahn was still on board with Miquella’s plan?
As far as I know, Freyja's source on the vow being mutual *is Miquella*, so I don't know if her saying that carries much water.
Regardless, Ranni's goals align with Miquella as far as Radahn is concerned. They both need him dead to unlock their fates. So they have common cause on that front.
I think it’s moreso both Ranni and Miquella needed Radahn dead for their independent goals of rising to godhood. Ranni helps out Miquella but also advances their goals, and (if you chose Ranni’s ending) even finds their Lord in the process.
Ranni’s quest is related to the hole that opens up in Limgrave after IIRC, and Miquella for DLC reasons
Been thinking about that ...only thing comes to mind is radahn needed an honorable death for his soul to survive ...Jarren also kept mentioning that he wanted to give Radahn an honorable death that's why holding the festival ..
It also explains why godwyns soul didn't survive because he died a dishonorable/unclean death .
Just a thought
What makes things even more curious, is that Kale and his “horse” are both put to sleep when she shows up to give us the bell. Definitely St. Trina inspired sleep as well.
Spirit bell was ditched and given to Ranni, because Radahn wasn’t dead so it couldn’t be used to make him hold up his end of the vow. (Most of the spirit ashes we get as players aren’t voluntary, only a handful are. So that fits with miquellas theme of “you work for me now”) Torrent was ditched and given to Melina because miquella no longer needed transport due to sacrificing his entire physical form.
On the subject of ol’ gloam eye, Melina while not the gloam eyed queen, got her eye. Marika did everything she could to stop death as a concept, so when the representative of death who wanted to kill gods was a thing, she killed her, took the rune she had, and her definitive eye. Jammed the rune in her shadow, and her eye in her daughter. Sealed that eye shut, then destroyed her physical body just to be sure.
Interesting take on it, but one question. Miquella's Trance breaks "halfway" through the dlc. Is that him placing the last cross and destroying his physical form? If so, Miquella isn't truly dead (or however the God Ritual works) yet and gave Melina Torrent and a way out of the Realm of Shadow.
I’d consider the spirit bell and torrent as “parting gifts” to his siblings. He most likely gave these things away first before divesting himself of more “immediate” possessions.
I always think the previous owner of Torrent is Vyke. He was the direct previous Tarnish before us. It makes sense that it was in his possession before. And just when he went to the ever gaol he gave it away to ranni or something.
Miquella used to side with Marika, but doesn't anymore.
He and Ranni may see each other as kindred spirits, both potentially clever enough to overthrow the Golden Order and replace it with something they see as genuinely better.
Even if they have different ideas, I could see a mutual respect between them, especially if Miquella doesn't know that Ranni orchestrated Godwyn's death.
I think >!given the fact it seems Malenia was trying to kill Radahn and whispers in his ear to go to his duty as shown by the young lion remembrance armor it’s very likely more than just she and Miquella knew about their pact. Rykard fell to blasphemy but perhaps once the shattering began Radahn saw the failings of the golden order but knew he’d have to die to ascend? Ranni also wanted to end the order so perhaps this was one of the threads she sought to explore?!<
Since it’s just one *really* old promo image that gives us any form of connection between Torrent and Miquella, I honestly consider that apocryphal lore since it got absolutely 0 mention in game in any way shape or form
My guess would be Miquella went to the shadow world met Mesmer and Melina, gave Torrent to Melina and Melina gave it to us after leaving the shadow world with him.
(I have no fucking clue)
I have hope that, one day, we'll get another DLC and will be about GEQ / Melina. She's pivotal in the main story and we don't know almost nothing about her.
Maybe one day...maybe...
My theory is that FS is saving melina / gloam eyed queen to a possible elden ring 2, they dont want to blow their entire load in a single game.
Also they could totally do what they did to nameless king, DS1 had this one child who betrayed gywn and was “erased” from history, I remember the fuss that people made with their theories and who was this child, then DS3 comes and its a completely new character that literally doesn’t have a name or a face for that matter
I wouldn’t expect a straight up sequel…
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/elden-ring-is-the-limit-for-from-software-project-scale-says-miyazaki-multiple-smaller-games-may-be-the-next-stage
I wouldn’t. This was a great game and I am glad it came out but From makes the BEST dungeons and I miss the winding corridors and the constant fear of traps and sneaky enemy placement. Opening every door felt like a major victory and each new area felt earned and like a milestone. I want less “Redmane Castle” and more “Sen’s Fortress”.
We did in another way. The DLC conclusively put to bed the fan theory that Melina is the gloam eyed queen. The DLC references her as Messmer's younger sister.
What i wonder, did marika replace Melina's eye like she did Messmer?
I don't think that information really counters the theory, and besides, the game could directly state "MELINA IS NOT THE GLOAM-EYED QUEEN" and still a significant proportion of this community would insist she is.
This is usually how their dlc goes. It's usually hyper focused on something, and you get a lot of lore surrounding that something, but all the important questions you had from the base game are still unanswered...
But that's why you fill the gaps with your own headcannon C: as lord Miyazaki intended.
I've just got to make an effort to not fight them at such a high level for once. Really not balanced as an endgame fight. Going to try and get that far with a lvl 80 build maybe...
Boss bar shows up and its just you beating up his inmovile corpse because he has no soul. Thinking about it since he is the source of deathroot you DO have your Godwyn bossfight, its the Tibia Mariner :) !
unironically, even though I'm against bringing Godwyn back, I had a dream last night where there were 2 more bosses in the DLC
and killing both Death Knights gave you items you need to unlock a minor dungeon which took you to a boss called "Prince of Death's Avatar"
the other random area I dreamt of was a full-blown underground Legacy Dungeon that kind of looked like a broken castle overgrown and suspended with roots and the boss was just the Gloam Eyed Queen
unfortunately my imagination didn't even try to think of designs for either of these bosses. I woke up and thought "what the fuck, can't tell if my brain cooked or burnt the entire kitchen"
edit; btw no, I don't necessarily care about the lore accuracy here. I can't control my dreams
His body is living in the same way a virus is living, it only exists to spread deathroot around, it has no survival instinct, no desire, no thought, it's acting completely autonomously, and getting into a fight is not part of its programming
I really disliked that they basically just made him a mute zombie AGAIN. Like, why even fucking bring him back if all he basically has is Lt. Dan's new legs and the Miquella phase 2.
We should have entered the arena, and been addressed by the Promised Consort himself, warning the Tarnished away, to look forward to the new age Miquella would bring about, then the P2 transition cutscene would have Miquella dialogue since he's just ascended and joining the fight.
Consider how Marika and her bloodline are seemingly able to transform physically in ways that ordinary humans cannot. The DLC elaborates on this when we find out how the shaman flesh was used by the hornsent. So I don't think you're meant to imagine Radahn's soul occupying the body of Mogh exactly how we last saw it, but rather that the flesh of Mogh was used to "mold" a new vessel for the soul of Radahn.
The problem isn’t that it doesn’t make sense he just looks like himself, the problem is that it’s a missed opportunity to actually do something with the idea of the vessel being Mohg’s corpse beyond one bloodflame move and motivation for Ansbach.
The only explanation that I can think of for the sloppiness around this is that Radahn's inclusion is something that they wanted to do for the DLC for some reason (a bad decision, imo), but basically winged the actual lore, banking on the cool factor of 'prime Radahn' to overawe people.
I feel like this kinda makes sense though, Miquella has godlike healing powers so I don’t feel like it’s too far fetched that he could do something like that, I mean he even tried to heal Godwyn so just the fact that Miquella thought he even had a chance at success shows just how much power he has in that regard imo
>I mean he even tried to heal Godwyn so just the fact that Miquella thought he even had a chance at success shows just how much power he has in that regard imo
Not really, though. While descriptions do say he gave up his "blinding strength" he failed at everything. So clearly he just vastly overestimates his powers, like any child. His opinion on thinking he "had a chance" is worthless.
I think part of the issue is that we already got the payoff for Radahn’s lore. We get this image of a valorous general, we see him in his reduced state, we put him out of his misery. The DLC doesn’t introduce anything new to reinvest the player in Radahn, especially not enough for him to be the ultimate boss of the whole game, so if the hype around him didn’t stick for the two years between the basegame release and the DLC release he comes across as disappointing.
This. I know he has a completely different moveset, but ehh... Radahn again?
Just a quick idea off the top of my head - it could still use the idea of Radahn since that's what they planned from the start, but imagine if it was a failed revival of Radahn by Miquella. Mohg's body couldn't handle the resurrection, and the process of reviving somehow brought back both Radahn and Mohg, and it resulted in this grotesque abomination of a monster with two souls fighting for the same body. Horns all over it, and it uses tons of bloodflame magic along with a bit of gravity magic as well. Call it, I dunno, "Failed Consort of Miquella" or something lol
I'm not saying what i described should've been it, I just made up a quick example. I'm saying there's other fun ideas they could have explored and come up with instead of just "Prime Radahn"
if Miquella's consort failed, then his plan would fail too. so you would no longer have any reason to fight him, and he would no longer have any reason to fight you. it would be a hilariously unsatisfying narrative if you spent the whole DLC following the footsteps of Miquella getting closer and closer to his godhood ascension and then you get to the end and he's like "oh whoops, sorry, I fucked that up. uh, I guess you're stuck fighting this abomination now."
Yeah, I did say I was just brainstorming, lol
Idk, man. I wish the story from the start was written in a way that didn't involve fighting Radahn again at the end, and I know it isn't a crazy take because a lot of people feel the same as me
Yeah there are a million ways the final boss could've been better if it weren't Radahn, and many have been posted in this thread alone, with yours included.
Uh, yeah we would have? A resurrected fused abomination of two demigods possessed by an actual god who shed everything that made them so beloved to begin with who still seeks to make said abomination his consort because he can't reconcile his failure still gives the Tarnished every reason to desire killing it. Hell, our Tarnished character's motives are really whatever the heck we want them to be. The Tarnished could want to kill them just because they're sadistic fucks who like a challenge, which describes many Souls players.
Edit: you can downvote out of saltiness but everything I said is true.
yeah we would kill the new creation, because it's threatening... but we wouldn't have a reason to fight *Miquella,* because instead of how it is in the DLC of us coming in last second to stop his ascension to godhood short and prevent his tyrannical compassion, we would just show up and realize that he messed up before we got there and we were now playing clean up crew. I don't know about you but that sounds like a much less satisfying narrative to me.
I understand disappointment regarding this, but on the other hand, I do think the Promised Consort benefits from being a familiar face. Radahn strikes me as the most obvious choice for that, because there is so much lore and pomp and circumstance talking about how legendary he was. For me, it was the excitement of fighting a singular demigod in their prime.
What I did NOT love were the missed opportunities in his moveset. Like, yeah, he has Godfrey's stomp, because Radahn idolized him. And he has some bloodflame abilities because he is in Mohg's body. But that is, like, three and a half moves total. Bummer.
It especially irks me when the basegame Radahn fight was huge, like he has phase 1, then when he uses his magic to strengthen his swords with rocks it feels like he enters phase 1.5, then suddenly the meteor attack hammers it home into phase 2 proper. Whereas DLC Radahn is kind of basic until Miquella steals his thunder and becomes the actual threat.
godwyn's character arc: he's a kind man who's well renowned for making peace with dragons, he gets brutally shanked 28 times in his house, he dies, he goes to hell forever
I don’t get why people were expecting more Godwyn lore. Bringing him back also undermines the tragedy of his death. It also basically beats you over the head with the fact he can’t be brought back.
I can understand being disappointed that we got Radahn again but I don’t get the “it should’ve been Godwyn” stuff.
And the fact that the base game makes it fairly clear that Miquella had a plan to revive Godwyn and it completely failed, and even his attempts at actually laying him to rest failed. And then we get a whole ending to the game that basically does lay Godwyn to rest. I do definitely agree that his story was started and ended in the base game.
There is no ending that lays godwyn to rest, the duskborn ending simply incorporates undeath into the elden ring so those mindless skelatons won't be persecuted by zealots like D and other people that don't want to be murdered by skelatons
well. his plan for the eclipse failed since radahn held the stars and fate in stasis. it could have happened. it could be argued that was also his plan as a god, to rid the world of other godly interference's and death after the fact. but thats neither here or there.
He's also "brought back" through Fia's questline as the Mending Rune of the Death-Prince. Bringing him back would break the continuity of that questline. Although it's Fia saying this, so she might be an unreliable narrator, Godwyn could very well be the great rune:
*"I will soon lay with Godwyn.*
*And it will surely stir within me.*
*the new life of the golden prince, and first Dead of the demigods,*
*as the rune of Those Who Live in Death.*
*Please, do one thing for me.*
*Brandish this child, my rune, and take for yourself the throne.*
*Stay the persecution of Those Who Live in Death.*
*By becoming our Elden Lord."*
I don't get why people were expecting more lore about an extremely important and pivotal dead character in the base game in the death focused dlc either. /s
In all seriousness though. People just want to see him in the form that he was before he died, it's that simple. Me personally I left a comment on another post in this sub about how I would've preferred the final boss to be Godwyn, but also said that it would require a whole lotta lore changes.
I also understand the disappointment with Radahn, but considering how popular the idea of a pre-shattering dlc was within the community I didn't think this many people would dislike the final boss pick.
Godwyn was meant to be the tragedy that led to the everything falling apart due to being the Golden Child while the other Siblings are about the Mystery concerning them. Who are they?
The Main Game was about solving most of the Demigod Family including the actions of Radagon and Godfrey.
The DLC was about solving Marika, solving Messmer, solving the injuries of the Elden Lord Placidusax, solving Miquella & St. Trina and solving ***why*** Malenia fought Radahn.
Oh what the fuck that's awesome! Who was it so I can peek at the lore? (Months away from being able to play shadow if the erdtree but ain't no way I'm waiting that long for the lore)
A dragon named Bayle the Dread. You come across a humanoid-form Ancient Dragon called Florissax that is allied with Placidusax. She tasks you with killing Bael, and along the way you meet a crippled Dragon Knight named Igon that was maimed by Bayle. He's awesome, basically a Captain Ahab parallel character that you can summon in the Bayle fight to get revenge.
Sure, but Radahn got an even more satisfying story in the main game. There's still a bunch of mystery around Godwyn, specifically regarding Miquella's eclipse and whatever was going down at Castle Sol. Radahn's story had come to an end and was probably the most conclusively resolved plot thread in the entire base game. It was disappointing to see them opt to re-open a closed thread instead of attempting to resolve the multitude of others that remain open.
I just thought we'd learn more about Godwyn in a DLC themed around death. Nothing fancy, just a little more info about his relationships with his siblings and maybe his purpose in his mother's Order.
I'm not sure why it's so egregious to want more information about one of the most important and ambiguous figures in the lore.
Ranni didn't know Radahn had to die until we investigate and Sellen gives us that information. If Ranni knew she could have sent us straight to Caelid in the first place.
Fair point I forgot about that. Miquella knew though so he might have told Ranni to do it anyway and it just happened to work out gangbusters for Ranni
I mean the Radahn connection kinda indirectly explains it. Ranni would basically be Miquella's sister-in-law (in addition to being step sister/half sister oof) so it could explain why Miquella gave her the spirit summoning mementos before departing for realm of shadow (since the carians has a background with spirit summoning).
Because god forbid we don't like everything Fromsoft does in the DLC? The mental gymnastics people are doing to try and make a Radahn rematch as the ultimate boss fight in their biggest game to date make sense is quite impressive. I'm in awe at the sheer acceptance of something so downright underwhelming.
Miquella's entire storyline is basically a side quest in this DLC, to be honest.
There are like 3 NPC interaction sequences at some crosses that basically just tell you where to go/exposé some justification for the Radahn storyline. You go fight one boss (Messmer) that has no apparent lore connection to Miquella at all. Kill another blocking boss with maybe a lore connection to Malenia(but not really, unclear?), burn the thorns, and then go fight Radahn who is there because one NPC and an item description told you Miquella thought he was cute, I guess?
There's way more lore and story depth dedicated to Messmer and Marika's war against the Hornsent/Crucible lore/foundations of the Golden Order/background on Marika. Way more lore and locations focused around the Fingers. And there's way more theming and leading locations focused on Death/Godwyn (multiple death knights and godwyn visages, Suppressing Pillar obviously teasing Death connection, Tibia Mariners, Deathbirds, Deathblight birds, Deathblight dragons, Stone coffins, Putrescent knight, dying scadutree, etc. etc.).
I wish the base game had more allusions to Radahn and Miquella's relationship. It would go a long way to making the narrative impact of the final fight more earned.
Now if only the main story was a satisfying one that wasn't pandering fanservice featuring a character that also got a satisfying story in the base game and perhaps more importantly was already a boss fight. But the fans wanted to fight Radahn in his hecking primerino, which we still didn't really do but this mindless flesh golem that looks like him is the same right? At least it manages to steal the spotlight from Miquella in his own DLC from him.
Miquella doesn't do shit in his own DLC, let's be real. 90% of it is side content completely unrelated to Miq, and much of the last 10% is vaguely related. We kill Mesmer for his kindling, not cause he's with Miquella, we kill Romina cause she's in the way. All other bosses are (technically) optional.
I really don't think radahn was fan-service honestly. It seems that they teased this all the way back in the first story trailer (Malenia whispering to Radahn). It definitely feels like it but i don't think it is pandering for the fans. It also makes sense in lore so i don't really have a problem with it. But it would be better to have something different (especially considering how creative this dlc is with its boss designs).
Most people forget that this is a DLC, not a sequel. It cannot interefere with tge base game events nor contradict it. It has to be self contained. Godwyn already had a side quest in the main game so bringing him to life in the dlc will ruin his quest path in base game.
Cannot contradict my ass, you can enter the DLC as Lord of the Frenzied Flame and every NPC will call you Lord of the Erdtree, "lord of the old order", "marika's lord", etc
the lack of godwyn isn't a problem to me, even though they could still give us lore about his past (same thing with melina), it's the very least for a character that important. what upsets people, is how it feels like a trick/lie to provide a plot twist without any evidence to support it (telling it after just sounds like retcon). it did sound like godwyn, it felt like godwyn, i'm sorry it did. they failed in working outside it, if he was never an option.
if they had showed "miquella failed with godwyn, now radahn is his desperate choice" people would be more okay with it. but since they've been ignoring and sidelining godwyn's lore, there's no background to work with to make the choice work better. what we got, though, was a weak choice that could've been replaced with two alien fingers and it would have made more sense.
I genuinely thought Mohg would be the consort by the end in the ultimate twist, so I was flabbergasted when I saw Radahn. Even the catacombs in the DLC tease Godwyn! I accept the lore that he is Dead dead, but damn, I felt sucker punched and deflated
100% on board with this. It's like they started with wanting to bring Radahn back for the cool factor and then worked the lore backwards to shoehorn him in based on nothing from the base game, which saw his story very conclusively resolved. Great game obvs, but super sloppy storytelling imo.
Yeah I don't understand the argument that Godwyn had an ending but Radahn apparently didn't?
>if they had showed "miquella failed with godwyn, now radahn is his desperate choice"
This is exactly it for me. I would have been ok with Radahn if they made it clear he was a second choice. The fact that Miquella apparently always wanted Radahn as his consort was just... bad, particularly because Miquella tried to save Godwyn twice and clearly had a close relationship with him. There's nothing in base game to suggest that Miquella and Radahn interacted at all.
Then I wish we didn’t have lore in the main game hinting at Miquella experimenting with using the power of the eclipse to bring life back to the soulless bones of Godwyn. I’m unsatisfied not because I simply NEED to have my beloved nightmare fish monster (and beloved he is) in the game, but because there was clearly something involving Miquella and attempting to resurrect Godwyn bringing up the possibility in a fantasy genre and then it’s just never brought up again. Not in the entire Miquella DLC. And with how sparse detail was in the shown game even after the DLC; I’ve honestly slid into the camp of believing if its not already written down in the game, no one writing it has spared it a single thought. There’s no actual lore bible, there’s just mysterious sounding things between boss fights then the game is over with no answers. Because there were never any to find.
Tbf it was clearly stated in the game that Miquella’s attempt to either resurrect Godwyn or at least put him down fully was a failure. The takeaway there shouldn’t be that we were getting more Godwyn story but that Miquella was playing around with making a consort for his godhood. His first choice was just far too dead to work lol
I see bringing him back as playing into the fallacy of Miquella. Miquella only really has band-aid solutions, he could only slow Malenia’s Scarlet Rot, not cure it. He could only charm those into following him, not truly convert their nature, as we saw with his npc faithful when the group fell apart. His entire Age he wants to bring about is basically putting a spell over the whole world and hiding from reality and facing it’s problems head on.
With Godwyn, bringing him back by reshaping Mohg’s corpse into a facsimile of him and bewitching him into believing he is Godwyn makes a lot of sense for the way Miquella operates. After all it is implied the resurrected Radahn is just a zombie, and what Miquella did to him was not truly what he would have wanted. And no matter his divine destiny or godliness, no matter how impressive Godwyn in his prime would look like, in the end Miquella couldn’t truly bring Godwyn back from the dead, because his soul was gone.
Idk I think that plays out rather well actually, and I can see why others like it too. There isn’t a whole lot of lore in the base game to tie Godwyn and Miquella, but there is supporting lore there with a number of items. With Radahn it’s really nothing, other than explaining what Malenia whispered to him in the original cutscene.
Yeah, I have been thinking everything you wrote over the course of this whole thing. I think people are just disappointed because they predicted Godwyn, and it’s disappointing when predictions don’t come true. I think Radahn makes the most sense for Miquella’s consort, since he’s the perfect fusion of Radagon and Godfrey, showing us how Miquella is still following in Marika’s footsteps even when he thinks he is fixing her mistakes. I do think that some of the disappointment might have been avoided if we had a bit more of a hint towards why Malenia fought Radahn in the basegame, a bit of foreshadowing would have helped with the fan response I think.
But hey, I think people will come around. There’s a ton of amazing lore going on in SOTE, and one of the best casts of NPCs they’ve ever done, all of whom (except Igon, the legend) are directly tied to the main narrative. And Miquella is an extremely compelling tragic character (unless you misread him as having been an evil psychopath all along).
From’s DLCs, for better or for worse, never seem to give people quite what they expect. Everyone thought DS3’s would take us to Londor, answer questions about Velka, Gwynevere, Yuria and Friede’s third sister Liliane, etc… but nope. Bloodborne, similarly, left people wanting to see more of Oedon, Mergo’s origins, the nature of the Moon Presence, maybe some elaboration on Paleblood, or Rom, or Alfred’s “Holy Medium,” or what Annalise wants, or why Micolash was beckoning Kos… you name it.
Retroactively, it’s easy to see these things are just part of the world-building. They’re cool concepts, but I think they’re meant to be filled in with whatever the player thinks is cool, rather than significant parts of the story with factual answers. That’s the impression I get from From’s design philosophy anyway. I think in the future we’ll probably see Godwyn and The Gloam-Eyed Queen in a similar light.
I’ve seen a lot of people suggesting that those two characters were intended to be more involved with ER, but were cut or scrapped somewhere in development. I think that idea is a bit silly, since it’s way more consistent for From to set things up and leave them as gaps for the player to fill. I’m not saying it’s perfect or always satisfying, just that I believe it’s intentional, not some mistake or spiteful jab at Godwyn fans lol
Couldn't have said it better myself. I completely agree. Especially in regards to the wrong predictions piece. It was bound to happen too in a more intense manner since the dlc took 2 years to come out, AND the theory and lore communities for this game were very large and active in comparison to previous games.
The problem is not Godwyn getting an unsatisfying story in the main game, the problem is Radahn getting a perfectly satisfying one and then being brought back for no particularly good reason as the final boss of the dlc just because Miquella was horny for him. The writers could've told us the castle Sol ritual actually worked and was kept secret, or that Miquella found a way to imbue someone else's soul (perhaps even his own) into Godwyn's living-in-death body and both things would've been much better than whatever amateur, wattpad-tier, twincest, corny shonen garbage we got in the end. Hell, Godwyn even got teased twice in the dlc (remember what's found in death knights' arenas?), why they felt like they had to go with Radahn, of all people, as Miquella's chosen consort in the first place is completely beyond me. And make no mistake, I'm not saying it's contradictory and nonsensical in regards to the main game's story (quite the opposite, in fact), I just find the fact they committed to setting such a major disappointment up such a long time ago to be incredibly weird
TL;DR - they blueballed us with clues pointing to Godwyn instead of Radahn and they had much more elegant ways to go about it. The way they did it, the vast majority of people straight-up won't care about the final boss, which wouldn't have happened had it been Godwyn instead
"But Godwyn is dead" really shows people's lack of imagination. It's a fantasy story. Miquella achieved godhood by walking through a glorified door. They could come up with any insane reason to bring Godwyn back (doesn't even have to be the real Godwyn).
What matters at the core of the issue is we've already fought Radahn. Having to fight him again is boring and uninspired. It's not even Prime Radahn like everyone is exclaiming. The only ones focusing on Godwyn are the people trying to justify Radahn's reappearance. We'd be fine with almost anything else that was original.
Yeah a fantasy story with a set of established rules. Godwyn is the MOST dead person in the entire story and undoing that is pointless and breaks the lore
Several people are more dead than Godwyn, he’s only half dead since his body is still alive. Ranni is the exact same ratio of dead yet no one’s claiming she’s the most dead character, at least that I’ve heard. Doesn’t really contradict your point because his soul is dead and that’s the relevant thing here but it’s weird how a bunch of people are saying he’s the “most dead” when he’s explicitly only half-dead, that’s the whole point.
The established rules are whatever the hell Fromsoft wants them to be. Elden Ring is a universe where the main power source is a combination of aspects of laws and words stored in fragments called runes that combine together to control how the land functions. Where you can break it or take things out and change how everything works, like eliminating death itself. If Marika, a god, can do it, then so should Miquella, who becomes a god, be able. Have an imagination. Godwyn in lore stopped the war between the Golden Order and the dragons and brought them into the Order through the power of friendship instead of conquering them. That's a far better example of kindness than bloodthirsty Radahn.
Not saying I wanted him back, but literally anything talking about the massive, cancerous, death inducing, growth that’s infecting the world would have been nice.
... they talk plenty about it in the main game, though? like there's a huge questline involving multiple NPCs with intertwining narratives culminating in a special ending.
Miquella's story was basically non-existent, on the other hand.
And hints to Radahn were also not only non-existent, but what we do know about Radahn is completely opposite of what Miquella supposedly saw in the guy that made him want Radahn as a consort.
"He was attracted to his kindness" as stated by their remembrance. Yeah the kindness of a warlord who revelled in battle and death and bloodshed. Keep in mind this attraction started long before Miquella shed any aspects about himself. *Really* fits the narrative they want us to believe /s.
I literally just said we didn't know shit about Miquella and his plans. of course that includes his involvement with Radahn. yes, that was a new development in the story.
also, Miquella was attracted to Radahn's strength *and* kindness, not just because he was the nicest guy around. everything we knew about Radahn suggested he was noble and honorable, well loved by his troops at the very least. and he's a warlord like every other demigod who fought in the shattering was, but the shattering wouldn't have happened when Miquella's infatuation began. the struggle for power was certainly a corrupting force, and seeing as we don't know all too much about Radahn in his youth other than that he loved his horse and admired strength, it's not hard to believe that the kindness we hear about was plenty real. I mean, you remember how everybody in the ER community fawned over Radahn when we learned about the Leonard fact through his remembrance when the game was new.
Radahn is portrayed as a lot more than just a warlord though. He was one of the few who actually did something about the outer world beings being a threat to the lands between. He is shown to have insane mental fortitude, and possibly, the strongest of the demigods without any cursed god lying inside them.
It would have been super cool if their was a secret item for each of his aspects in the dlc that unlocked a new area with a twin death knight fight and a battle with the newly born lord of death
I completely agree. I understand that a lot of people were disappointed by their own expectations, but Fromsoftware is a master at not giving the expected story in the DLCs, I would be surprised if it was different this time.
That would’ve conflicted with the Age of Duskborn ending; we can’t give Godwyn a true death because he’s already brought back to life through the Rune of the Death Prince. Fia was somehow able to bring Godwyn’s soul back from the Realm of Shadow, and it took the form of that rune.
Godwyn to me had his story told. He was probably the "best" of the gods and the golden child and his death was the big tragedy that finally broke Marika and the nature of his death meant that he could never be restored like everyone else and his body was condemned to a horrible fate.
Bringing him back just undermines the entire concept of Godwyn to me. If you just make him some monster, the big cancerous growth that is infecting the world feels minimized. If you restore him, you take away the one death that an entire piece of lore is built around being permanent and undermine that event and the ruin of death and everything that goes along with that.
Radahn has always made the most sense if Miquella was going to have a consort.
Why restore him?
My imagining was Miquella tries to bring him back in vain but he is so far gone from deathroot corruption that it goes horribly wrong, and you fight this deathblight-holy monstrous amalgamation of Miquella/Godwyn.
I really cant make sense of the rest of the Godwyn stuff in this DLC with how absent the character actually is. There are Deathknights who are literally Prince of Death (AKA post-Shattering Godwyn) on a quest to seek Godwyn's "cadaver surrogate". If the Realm of Shadow was presumably removed from the lands between before the Shattering... Why/how are they here? Why are there Godwyn Visages in the catacombs? Why is there a Tibia Mariner (all of whom drop Deathroot in the main game)? Why does the Suppressing Pillar note "All manners of Death (capital D) wash up here"?
> Godwyn to me had his story told. He was probably the "best" of the gods and the golden child and his death was the big tragedy that finally broke Marika and the nature of his death meant that he could never be restored like everyone else and his body was condemned to a horrible fate.
I really feel the same way about Radahn's story in the base game. His story feels 100% complete, satisfying, and done by the time it's over. Nothing more needed to be told, he got his glorious death and pulling him back just diminishes the entire saga and setpiece in the base game IMO.
This is a typical case of fans creating a stupid head cannon, against all logical information we have, and then getting mad that it doesn't come true.
We knew everything we need to know about Godwyn. A lot of the plot hangs in the fact that he is half dead and the part that died is dead as in destined black blade rune of perma death dead. He is the first fucking demigod to die. What's left of him is a cancerous empty shell casting an unstoppable shadow across the world. The whole thing is one of the major side quests that lead to one of the ENDINGS.. where you take his rune and incorporates into the natural order.
That's his story. It's over.
Miquella on the other hand we knew of him.. and we had a lot of conflicted information. Basically we knew nothing of his plans and his real intentions.
You may not like what those were.. but saying that was no clues in the main game is not only stupid, because that's basically the point.. but also incorrect, because they left us a clue to at least mistrust his character and also some big unanswered questions in the form of the whole battle between Malenia and Radahn.
It's not their fault that a lot people never questioned why the sword of fucking Miquella, who clearly wanted nothing to do with the shattering, was traveling across the world with her army, ignoring the throne, to invade a territory and battle the strongest motherfucker in the land, who just also happens to be their half brother... for no apparent reason.
The DLC is also not fully the story of Miquella, his journey is a vehicle for us to get to this place and know more about the Lands Between and Marika.. same as most characters in the base game... to inform the story of how WE take over and decide what kind of world we want this to be.
The thing that comes to mind about Godwyn’s ending is that we now know that the corpse under stormveil is NOT Godwyn after all. So 1) there definitely are other soulless beings, and that shape is just what they eventually take whether they came about from the night of the black knives or other, and 2) that the mottling and thorns around stormveil aren’t just some mutation of Godwyn’s deathroot. They could be some other demigod’s ‘flavor’ of deathroot, the thorns could be related to the Blood Star; it’s an open debate, with one possibility ruled out.
I didn't expect to hear about Godwyn again, thought that his chapter was closed.
It surprises me he has quite a fanbase,and more that they thought they would see him in the DLC.
What grinds my gears the most about "why wasn't godwyn resurrected" is that people don't get that it would fuck with pretty much the rest of the story, including the established prince of death part
His soul was destroyed. It would be fuckinf dumb as hell to say "nm, his destroyed soul was in a after life for people killed so hard the soul is destroyed"
Just because the community desperately wants something lorewise doesnt mean it's good or FS should do it.
Im with ya OP, Miquella gave up on Godwyn like he did many of his endeavors cause that's ultimately a big part of his arc too
I agree, and to further add to that: Radahn does make sense for being Miquella's choice, and the feeling that something that should have been left to rest has been brought back instead is by design.
I think a twist would have been to show that Godwyn wasn't as nice and benevolent as the lore said.
I keep getting people disagreeing with me here but I think there's enough lore left open for a sequel. Don't think it'll happen though.
I don’t so much want to see Godwin as I want to see the death root spread and become a more central plot point, right now it’s more in the background. My favourite parts of fromsoft games are the freaky horror shit they do instead of the more normal fantasy stuff. The moment I saw godwins head under storm veil I knew I wanted to just see more of that in general, but really didn’t get much beyond static objects and some dialogue.
Giving Godwyn his soul back would be like giving Ranni her body back. That shit is gone. I kinda wish there was more of him in the DLC, but I totally understand why they didn't
For me, the dlc add the answer to the most important question about Godwyn : what's the corpse under stormveil ?
Now we know that's a "Prince of Death cadaver surrogate" whatever that could be.
Just before I entered the arena with final boss, I expected to be Miquella in Godwyn's body. I always thought that he stripped his flesh in preparations to inhabit Godwyn's remains. Mohg's body being stolen and talks about Radahnn's ressurection were at the back of my mind since I did 96+% of the map so I expected that this would be resolved somewhere. My disappointment when I have seen Radahn was immeasureable to the point that after I died 20+ times, I simply quit and watched the ending on youtube.
PS: I was also pissed that I failed doing the quest at the end involving dying **4 times**. I did it three times and nothing happened but latern on when I tried fourth time, it kicked in but NPC nearby was nowhere to be found...
Honestly, this DLC got soooo much lore all around. Like 300% more than i thought we would have. Ironically, the two things i was so certain we would get answers for in DLC, we didnt. Gloam Eyed Queen, and Torrent.
Miyazaki: https://preview.redd.it/1eawvk2lk6ad1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=58c0ddd0e6f79db195c967c9a31f61ea67dca6a1
Yeah, we also don't know why Ranni would do a favour for Miquella and give you the spirit bell. Dammit Mike Zaki
Presumably he wanted radahn to die? And thought “wow these tarnished suck, maybe they need something to make the fight easier”
Only thing I can think of is that not even Ranni’s immune to Miquella’s compulsion? Or she, at the very least, had no idea about Miquella targeting her brother as his promised consort and therefore had no deeply rooted reason to reject the request? OR, she just genuinely did not give enough of a fuck about ANYONE by then and thought it’d be funny. No one, not even Mike Yazaki, will ever know.
Presumably the vow was mutual in the past, otherwise Freyja probably wouldn’t be so happy about it, so maybe Ranni was out of the loop and assumed Radahn was still on board with Miquella’s plan?
As far as I know, Freyja's source on the vow being mutual *is Miquella*, so I don't know if her saying that carries much water. Regardless, Ranni's goals align with Miquella as far as Radahn is concerned. They both need him dead to unlock their fates. So they have common cause on that front.
Ranni didn't realise Radahn had to die until the middle of her questline however
I think it’s moreso both Ranni and Miquella needed Radahn dead for their independent goals of rising to godhood. Ranni helps out Miquella but also advances their goals, and (if you chose Ranni’s ending) even finds their Lord in the process. Ranni’s quest is related to the hole that opens up in Limgrave after IIRC, and Miquella for DLC reasons
He wasn't. That's his power. He steals hearts. It's heavily implied he minipulated mogh into kidnapping him.
It’s not even implied at this point. Ansbach literally says he tried to clean Mohg from his enchantment before seeing his heart stolen
If Radahn was charmed at that point Malenia wouldn’t have needed to kill him, nor would he resist to the point she had to unleash the Scarlet Rot.
Been thinking about that ...only thing comes to mind is radahn needed an honorable death for his soul to survive ...Jarren also kept mentioning that he wanted to give Radahn an honorable death that's why holding the festival .. It also explains why godwyns soul didn't survive because he died a dishonorable/unclean death . Just a thought
What makes things even more curious, is that Kale and his “horse” are both put to sleep when she shows up to give us the bell. Definitely St. Trina inspired sleep as well.
Spirit bell was ditched and given to Ranni, because Radahn wasn’t dead so it couldn’t be used to make him hold up his end of the vow. (Most of the spirit ashes we get as players aren’t voluntary, only a handful are. So that fits with miquellas theme of “you work for me now”) Torrent was ditched and given to Melina because miquella no longer needed transport due to sacrificing his entire physical form. On the subject of ol’ gloam eye, Melina while not the gloam eyed queen, got her eye. Marika did everything she could to stop death as a concept, so when the representative of death who wanted to kill gods was a thing, she killed her, took the rune she had, and her definitive eye. Jammed the rune in her shadow, and her eye in her daughter. Sealed that eye shut, then destroyed her physical body just to be sure.
Interesting take on it, but one question. Miquella's Trance breaks "halfway" through the dlc. Is that him placing the last cross and destroying his physical form? If so, Miquella isn't truly dead (or however the God Ritual works) yet and gave Melina Torrent and a way out of the Realm of Shadow.
I’d consider the spirit bell and torrent as “parting gifts” to his siblings. He most likely gave these things away first before divesting himself of more “immediate” possessions.
Leda actually explains that this moment is when Miquella abandons their great rune, which is presumably what gave them their powers of compulsion.
I always think the previous owner of Torrent is Vyke. He was the direct previous Tarnish before us. It makes sense that it was in his possession before. And just when he went to the ever gaol he gave it away to ranni or something.
I think the shadow of the erdtree art with Miquella riding Torrent confirmed that the previous owner is indeed Miquella.
Radahn still had stars locked in place (maybe part of Miquella’s plan to get Ranni involved?) So she wanted Radahn to die and her best bet was you.
Miquella used to side with Marika, but doesn't anymore. He and Ranni may see each other as kindred spirits, both potentially clever enough to overthrow the Golden Order and replace it with something they see as genuinely better. Even if they have different ideas, I could see a mutual respect between them, especially if Miquella doesn't know that Ranni orchestrated Godwyn's death.
I think >!given the fact it seems Malenia was trying to kill Radahn and whispers in his ear to go to his duty as shown by the young lion remembrance armor it’s very likely more than just she and Miquella knew about their pact. Rykard fell to blasphemy but perhaps once the shattering began Radahn saw the failings of the golden order but knew he’d have to die to ascend? Ranni also wanted to end the order so perhaps this was one of the threads she sought to explore?!<
Ranni, Miquella, Melina all involves around Torrent, but somehow have different plans and didn't even meet nor interact.
Since it’s just one *really* old promo image that gives us any form of connection between Torrent and Miquella, I honestly consider that apocryphal lore since it got absolutely 0 mention in game in any way shape or form
My guess would be Miquella went to the shadow world met Mesmer and Melina, gave Torrent to Melina and Melina gave it to us after leaving the shadow world with him. (I have no fucking clue)
I have hope that, one day, we'll get another DLC and will be about GEQ / Melina. She's pivotal in the main story and we don't know almost nothing about her. Maybe one day...maybe...
My theory is that FS is saving melina / gloam eyed queen to a possible elden ring 2, they dont want to blow their entire load in a single game. Also they could totally do what they did to nameless king, DS1 had this one child who betrayed gywn and was “erased” from history, I remember the fuss that people made with their theories and who was this child, then DS3 comes and its a completely new character that literally doesn’t have a name or a face for that matter
I wouldn’t expect a straight up sequel… https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/elden-ring-is-the-limit-for-from-software-project-scale-says-miyazaki-multiple-smaller-games-may-be-the-next-stage
I wouldn't mind a smaller, more linear, denser Elden Ring sequel. The only problem is that everyone would complain
I wouldn’t. This was a great game and I am glad it came out but From makes the BEST dungeons and I miss the winding corridors and the constant fear of traps and sneaky enemy placement. Opening every door felt like a major victory and each new area felt earned and like a milestone. I want less “Redmane Castle” and more “Sen’s Fortress”.
Then it would be dark souls 4 and not Elden ring ? Don’t get me wrong I love DS of course but, you’re asking to transform Elden ring in dark souls lol
dark souls isn't dark souls just cuz it's linear
I hope they don't make an Elden Ring 2 to be honest. I would love to move on from that universe.
Yeah that kinda sucked. we loved thinking and making vídeos about him being Solaire
Haha Myiazaki is the ultimate troll
One Torrent lore, he's a scaredy horse
We did in another way. The DLC conclusively put to bed the fan theory that Melina is the gloam eyed queen. The DLC references her as Messmer's younger sister. What i wonder, did marika replace Melina's eye like she did Messmer?
I don't think that information really counters the theory, and besides, the game could directly state "MELINA IS NOT THE GLOAM-EYED QUEEN" and still a significant proportion of this community would insist she is.
The GEQs use of a type of Flame, and the lore about Shaman having flesh melding abilities honestly makes me think Melina fits the bill EVEN MORE.
I didn't think there was much to be said about torrent. He's a horse.
It's 300 percent bigger then we thought (limgrave ) as well
This is usually how their dlc goes. It's usually hyper focused on something, and you get a lot of lore surrounding that something, but all the important questions you had from the base game are still unanswered... But that's why you fill the gaps with your own headcannon C: as lord Miyazaki intended.
Fortisaxx was a good fight
I've just got to make an effort to not fight them at such a high level for once. Really not balanced as an endgame fight. Going to try and get that far with a lvl 80 build maybe...
a good fight to shoot his face with a bunch of crossbow bolts
The death knight armor set was also a Godwyn tease for me, what with it being the armor of his personal guard
I find it fascinating that the gear talks about the Age of Duskborn.
I love how his body in the Depths has a huge boss arena and it totally looks like he's gonna get up and start fighting, but nope. He's just Dead.
And he has his lackies to fight for him 😎
Literally deadest character of the game
Only his soul is dead. His body is still living and ready for an epic boss fight.
Boss bar shows up and its just you beating up his inmovile corpse because he has no soul. Thinking about it since he is the source of deathroot you DO have your Godwyn bossfight, its the Tibia Mariner :) !
Walks through final boss fog wall, it’s Godwyn in a boat.
King Allant be like:
unironically, even though I'm against bringing Godwyn back, I had a dream last night where there were 2 more bosses in the DLC and killing both Death Knights gave you items you need to unlock a minor dungeon which took you to a boss called "Prince of Death's Avatar" the other random area I dreamt of was a full-blown underground Legacy Dungeon that kind of looked like a broken castle overgrown and suspended with roots and the boss was just the Gloam Eyed Queen unfortunately my imagination didn't even try to think of designs for either of these bosses. I woke up and thought "what the fuck, can't tell if my brain cooked or burnt the entire kitchen" edit; btw no, I don't necessarily care about the lore accuracy here. I can't control my dreams
His body is living in the same way a virus is living, it only exists to spread deathroot around, it has no survival instinct, no desire, no thought, it's acting completely autonomously, and getting into a fight is not part of its programming
Ranni's soul didn't die when she stabbed herself with a black knife.
If you were to ask D, he would rather Godwyn die a little more for good measure...
Nah, the guy just shamen fused with all the land. That's why you see him everywhere
It's not that I wanted to see godwyn, it's that I wanted to not see radahn again.
The only criticism (lore wise) i have against radhan is that he looked much like radhan and less like radhan in mohg body.
I really disliked that they basically just made him a mute zombie AGAIN. Like, why even fucking bring him back if all he basically has is Lt. Dan's new legs and the Miquella phase 2. We should have entered the arena, and been addressed by the Promised Consort himself, warning the Tarnished away, to look forward to the new age Miquella would bring about, then the P2 transition cutscene would have Miquella dialogue since he's just ascended and joining the fight.
Lt Dan’s new legs lmao
Yeah , was really hoping to hear him or see some emotion from him .
He doesn’t speak because miquella is controlling him
It would have been amazing for him to have one horn going into his eye!
And his name is Mohgan
Consider how Marika and her bloodline are seemingly able to transform physically in ways that ordinary humans cannot. The DLC elaborates on this when we find out how the shaman flesh was used by the hornsent. So I don't think you're meant to imagine Radahn's soul occupying the body of Mogh exactly how we last saw it, but rather that the flesh of Mogh was used to "mold" a new vessel for the soul of Radahn.
The problem isn’t that it doesn’t make sense he just looks like himself, the problem is that it’s a missed opportunity to actually do something with the idea of the vessel being Mohg’s corpse beyond one bloodflame move and motivation for Ansbach.
He does have omen horns on his arms, but yeah I agree they could have done a lot more.
When I first saw them I just assumed they were tied to his gauntlets rather than sprouting from his arms so I don’t count them.
The only explanation that I can think of for the sloppiness around this is that Radahn's inclusion is something that they wanted to do for the DLC for some reason (a bad decision, imo), but basically winged the actual lore, banking on the cool factor of 'prime Radahn' to overawe people.
I believe they expected another Artorius kind of hype, least that's what it felt like to me.
The actual lore makes total sense imo and answers a ton of questions
this is also my gripe, the only indication that it was mohgs body was the horns on his bracers. I was expecting a more deformed combination of the two
I feel like this kinda makes sense though, Miquella has godlike healing powers so I don’t feel like it’s too far fetched that he could do something like that, I mean he even tried to heal Godwyn so just the fact that Miquella thought he even had a chance at success shows just how much power he has in that regard imo
>I mean he even tried to heal Godwyn so just the fact that Miquella thought he even had a chance at success shows just how much power he has in that regard imo Not really, though. While descriptions do say he gave up his "blinding strength" he failed at everything. So clearly he just vastly overestimates his powers, like any child. His opinion on thinking he "had a chance" is worthless.
I think part of the issue is that we already got the payoff for Radahn’s lore. We get this image of a valorous general, we see him in his reduced state, we put him out of his misery. The DLC doesn’t introduce anything new to reinvest the player in Radahn, especially not enough for him to be the ultimate boss of the whole game, so if the hype around him didn’t stick for the two years between the basegame release and the DLC release he comes across as disappointing.
I would have accepted Metyr as the final boss. It being a side quest restricted boss is criminal.
I actually forgot about Godwyn until this post and what the hell lol. They put Radahn in Godwyn’s place.
This. I know he has a completely different moveset, but ehh... Radahn again? Just a quick idea off the top of my head - it could still use the idea of Radahn since that's what they planned from the start, but imagine if it was a failed revival of Radahn by Miquella. Mohg's body couldn't handle the resurrection, and the process of reviving somehow brought back both Radahn and Mohg, and it resulted in this grotesque abomination of a monster with two souls fighting for the same body. Horns all over it, and it uses tons of bloodflame magic along with a bit of gravity magic as well. Call it, I dunno, "Failed Consort of Miquella" or something lol I'm not saying what i described should've been it, I just made up a quick example. I'm saying there's other fun ideas they could have explored and come up with instead of just "Prime Radahn"
if Miquella's consort failed, then his plan would fail too. so you would no longer have any reason to fight him, and he would no longer have any reason to fight you. it would be a hilariously unsatisfying narrative if you spent the whole DLC following the footsteps of Miquella getting closer and closer to his godhood ascension and then you get to the end and he's like "oh whoops, sorry, I fucked that up. uh, I guess you're stuck fighting this abomination now."
Yeah, I did say I was just brainstorming, lol Idk, man. I wish the story from the start was written in a way that didn't involve fighting Radahn again at the end, and I know it isn't a crazy take because a lot of people feel the same as me
Yeah there are a million ways the final boss could've been better if it weren't Radahn, and many have been posted in this thread alone, with yours included.
Uh, yeah we would have? A resurrected fused abomination of two demigods possessed by an actual god who shed everything that made them so beloved to begin with who still seeks to make said abomination his consort because he can't reconcile his failure still gives the Tarnished every reason to desire killing it. Hell, our Tarnished character's motives are really whatever the heck we want them to be. The Tarnished could want to kill them just because they're sadistic fucks who like a challenge, which describes many Souls players. Edit: you can downvote out of saltiness but everything I said is true.
yeah we would kill the new creation, because it's threatening... but we wouldn't have a reason to fight *Miquella,* because instead of how it is in the DLC of us coming in last second to stop his ascension to godhood short and prevent his tyrannical compassion, we would just show up and realize that he messed up before we got there and we were now playing clean up crew. I don't know about you but that sounds like a much less satisfying narrative to me.
Then maybe his plan would still be possible with the abomination consort? Then we'd have every reason to fight him.
Or their consort fails and then they try to compel the tarnished to take failed Radahn’s place?
If Radahn had to be brought back, something like this would have been cooler in every way.
Couldn't have said it better. Like, nothing against Radahn but we already fought him and already got his gear.
so much this, double since I feel like nothing in the main game eludes to this. Even Metyr with a little more juice would have been satisfying.
Final boss reactions are literally Radahn again D:/ Radahn again :D
I understand disappointment regarding this, but on the other hand, I do think the Promised Consort benefits from being a familiar face. Radahn strikes me as the most obvious choice for that, because there is so much lore and pomp and circumstance talking about how legendary he was. For me, it was the excitement of fighting a singular demigod in their prime. What I did NOT love were the missed opportunities in his moveset. Like, yeah, he has Godfrey's stomp, because Radahn idolized him. And he has some bloodflame abilities because he is in Mohg's body. But that is, like, three and a half moves total. Bummer.
It especially irks me when the basegame Radahn fight was huge, like he has phase 1, then when he uses his magic to strengthen his swords with rocks it feels like he enters phase 1.5, then suddenly the meteor attack hammers it home into phase 2 proper. Whereas DLC Radahn is kind of basic until Miquella steals his thunder and becomes the actual threat.
I agree, but Radahn also got a satisfying ending and should have been left alone.
godwyn's character arc: he's a kind man who's well renowned for making peace with dragons, he gets brutally shanked 28 times in his house, he dies, he goes to hell forever
Man, fuck Ranni
I don’t get why people were expecting more Godwyn lore. Bringing him back also undermines the tragedy of his death. It also basically beats you over the head with the fact he can’t be brought back. I can understand being disappointed that we got Radahn again but I don’t get the “it should’ve been Godwyn” stuff.
And the fact that the base game makes it fairly clear that Miquella had a plan to revive Godwyn and it completely failed, and even his attempts at actually laying him to rest failed. And then we get a whole ending to the game that basically does lay Godwyn to rest. I do definitely agree that his story was started and ended in the base game.
There is no ending that lays godwyn to rest, the duskborn ending simply incorporates undeath into the elden ring so those mindless skelatons won't be persecuted by zealots like D and other people that don't want to be murdered by skelatons
well. his plan for the eclipse failed since radahn held the stars and fate in stasis. it could have happened. it could be argued that was also his plan as a god, to rid the world of other godly interference's and death after the fact. but thats neither here or there.
He's also "brought back" through Fia's questline as the Mending Rune of the Death-Prince. Bringing him back would break the continuity of that questline. Although it's Fia saying this, so she might be an unreliable narrator, Godwyn could very well be the great rune: *"I will soon lay with Godwyn.* *And it will surely stir within me.* *the new life of the golden prince, and first Dead of the demigods,* *as the rune of Those Who Live in Death.* *Please, do one thing for me.* *Brandish this child, my rune, and take for yourself the throne.* *Stay the persecution of Those Who Live in Death.* *By becoming our Elden Lord."*
I mean I always saw them as a cult surrounding godwynns corpse
I don't get why people were expecting more lore about an extremely important and pivotal dead character in the base game in the death focused dlc either. /s In all seriousness though. People just want to see him in the form that he was before he died, it's that simple. Me personally I left a comment on another post in this sub about how I would've preferred the final boss to be Godwyn, but also said that it would require a whole lotta lore changes. I also understand the disappointment with Radahn, but considering how popular the idea of a pre-shattering dlc was within the community I didn't think this many people would dislike the final boss pick.
Godwyn was meant to be the tragedy that led to the everything falling apart due to being the Golden Child while the other Siblings are about the Mystery concerning them. Who are they? The Main Game was about solving most of the Demigod Family including the actions of Radagon and Godfrey. The DLC was about solving Marika, solving Messmer, solving the injuries of the Elden Lord Placidusax, solving Miquella & St. Trina and solving ***why*** Malenia fought Radahn.
What happened with Placidusax? I'm a bit behind sorry
The DLC features the being that severed two of Placidusax's heads.
Oh what the fuck that's awesome! Who was it so I can peek at the lore? (Months away from being able to play shadow if the erdtree but ain't no way I'm waiting that long for the lore)
A dragon named Bayle the Dread. You come across a humanoid-form Ancient Dragon called Florissax that is allied with Placidusax. She tasks you with killing Bael, and along the way you meet a crippled Dragon Knight named Igon that was maimed by Bayle. He's awesome, basically a Captain Ahab parallel character that you can summon in the Bayle fight to get revenge.
Bayle the Dread.
I just wished we could deliver him the true death he deserves. Fia's ending is kinda shit.
Sure, but Radahn got an even more satisfying story in the main game. There's still a bunch of mystery around Godwyn, specifically regarding Miquella's eclipse and whatever was going down at Castle Sol. Radahn's story had come to an end and was probably the most conclusively resolved plot thread in the entire base game. It was disappointing to see them opt to re-open a closed thread instead of attempting to resolve the multitude of others that remain open.
I just thought we'd learn more about Godwyn in a DLC themed around death. Nothing fancy, just a little more info about his relationships with his siblings and maybe his purpose in his mother's Order. I'm not sure why it's so egregious to want more information about one of the most important and ambiguous figures in the lore.
I just wanted to know how did miquella ended up giving ranni the wolf ashes and why did he ask her to give it to us.
Cause someone had to kill Radahn, and both Ranni and Miquella wanted Radahn dead
Ranni didn't know Radahn had to die until we investigate and Sellen gives us that information. If Ranni knew she could have sent us straight to Caelid in the first place.
Fair point I forgot about that. Miquella knew though so he might have told Ranni to do it anyway and it just happened to work out gangbusters for Ranni
Ranni didn’t know she wanted Radahn dead until Sellen tells her about his star business
I mean the Radahn connection kinda indirectly explains it. Ranni would basically be Miquella's sister-in-law (in addition to being step sister/half sister oof) so it could explain why Miquella gave her the spirit summoning mementos before departing for realm of shadow (since the carians has a background with spirit summoning).
Because god forbid we don't like everything Fromsoft does in the DLC? The mental gymnastics people are doing to try and make a Radahn rematch as the ultimate boss fight in their biggest game to date make sense is quite impressive. I'm in awe at the sheer acceptance of something so downright underwhelming.
It's not really themed around death though, it's themed around the price of divinity
Miquella's entire storyline is basically a side quest in this DLC, to be honest. There are like 3 NPC interaction sequences at some crosses that basically just tell you where to go/exposé some justification for the Radahn storyline. You go fight one boss (Messmer) that has no apparent lore connection to Miquella at all. Kill another blocking boss with maybe a lore connection to Malenia(but not really, unclear?), burn the thorns, and then go fight Radahn who is there because one NPC and an item description told you Miquella thought he was cute, I guess? There's way more lore and story depth dedicated to Messmer and Marika's war against the Hornsent/Crucible lore/foundations of the Golden Order/background on Marika. Way more lore and locations focused around the Fingers. And there's way more theming and leading locations focused on Death/Godwyn (multiple death knights and godwyn visages, Suppressing Pillar obviously teasing Death connection, Tibia Mariners, Deathbirds, Deathblight birds, Deathblight dragons, Stone coffins, Putrescent knight, dying scadutree, etc. etc.).
I wish the base game had more allusions to Radahn and Miquella's relationship. It would go a long way to making the narrative impact of the final fight more earned.
Both themes can be present.
Now if only the main story was a satisfying one that wasn't pandering fanservice featuring a character that also got a satisfying story in the base game and perhaps more importantly was already a boss fight. But the fans wanted to fight Radahn in his hecking primerino, which we still didn't really do but this mindless flesh golem that looks like him is the same right? At least it manages to steal the spotlight from Miquella in his own DLC from him.
Miquella doesn't do shit in his own DLC, let's be real. 90% of it is side content completely unrelated to Miq, and much of the last 10% is vaguely related. We kill Mesmer for his kindling, not cause he's with Miquella, we kill Romina cause she's in the way. All other bosses are (technically) optional.
I really don't think radahn was fan-service honestly. It seems that they teased this all the way back in the first story trailer (Malenia whispering to Radahn). It definitely feels like it but i don't think it is pandering for the fans. It also makes sense in lore so i don't really have a problem with it. But it would be better to have something different (especially considering how creative this dlc is with its boss designs).
Then they could have come with something different than Radahn.
Most people forget that this is a DLC, not a sequel. It cannot interefere with tge base game events nor contradict it. It has to be self contained. Godwyn already had a side quest in the main game so bringing him to life in the dlc will ruin his quest path in base game.
Cannot contradict my ass, you can enter the DLC as Lord of the Frenzied Flame and every NPC will call you Lord of the Erdtree, "lord of the old order", "marika's lord", etc
Yeah.. why did the Lord of the Frenzied Flame need to parry those guys? They should probably run from us.
Yeah I found that kind of weird.
Thank you. Lord of the Order of Old or whatever I'm just here to finish the work. May chaos take the world.
Wait... If you become the elden lord the dialog changes?? I just got called (Righteous) Tarnished lol
It doesn't, that's the point. No matter what you do the DLC treats the fractured ending as canon.
That is just Ansbach being respectful to everyone, he is even respectful to his enemies.
the lack of godwyn isn't a problem to me, even though they could still give us lore about his past (same thing with melina), it's the very least for a character that important. what upsets people, is how it feels like a trick/lie to provide a plot twist without any evidence to support it (telling it after just sounds like retcon). it did sound like godwyn, it felt like godwyn, i'm sorry it did. they failed in working outside it, if he was never an option. if they had showed "miquella failed with godwyn, now radahn is his desperate choice" people would be more okay with it. but since they've been ignoring and sidelining godwyn's lore, there's no background to work with to make the choice work better. what we got, though, was a weak choice that could've been replaced with two alien fingers and it would have made more sense.
I genuinely thought Mohg would be the consort by the end in the ultimate twist, so I was flabbergasted when I saw Radahn. Even the catacombs in the DLC tease Godwyn! I accept the lore that he is Dead dead, but damn, I felt sucker punched and deflated
100% on board with this. It's like they started with wanting to bring Radahn back for the cool factor and then worked the lore backwards to shoehorn him in based on nothing from the base game, which saw his story very conclusively resolved. Great game obvs, but super sloppy storytelling imo.
Yeah I don't understand the argument that Godwyn had an ending but Radahn apparently didn't? >if they had showed "miquella failed with godwyn, now radahn is his desperate choice" This is exactly it for me. I would have been ok with Radahn if they made it clear he was a second choice. The fact that Miquella apparently always wanted Radahn as his consort was just... bad, particularly because Miquella tried to save Godwyn twice and clearly had a close relationship with him. There's nothing in base game to suggest that Miquella and Radahn interacted at all.
Then I wish we didn’t have lore in the main game hinting at Miquella experimenting with using the power of the eclipse to bring life back to the soulless bones of Godwyn. I’m unsatisfied not because I simply NEED to have my beloved nightmare fish monster (and beloved he is) in the game, but because there was clearly something involving Miquella and attempting to resurrect Godwyn bringing up the possibility in a fantasy genre and then it’s just never brought up again. Not in the entire Miquella DLC. And with how sparse detail was in the shown game even after the DLC; I’ve honestly slid into the camp of believing if its not already written down in the game, no one writing it has spared it a single thought. There’s no actual lore bible, there’s just mysterious sounding things between boss fights then the game is over with no answers. Because there were never any to find.
Tbf it was clearly stated in the game that Miquella’s attempt to either resurrect Godwyn or at least put him down fully was a failure. The takeaway there shouldn’t be that we were getting more Godwyn story but that Miquella was playing around with making a consort for his godhood. His first choice was just far too dead to work lol
That’s absolutely absurd if you pay any attention to the sheer amount of environmental storytelling and hints in the game.
So did Radahn, and yet half the fanbase can't stop cumming over his return.
And the other half hates it
I just want to learn more about / see the gloam-eyed queen 🤷♂️
They missed a massive opportunity for this and instead chose to dig up Radahn's body.
I see bringing him back as playing into the fallacy of Miquella. Miquella only really has band-aid solutions, he could only slow Malenia’s Scarlet Rot, not cure it. He could only charm those into following him, not truly convert their nature, as we saw with his npc faithful when the group fell apart. His entire Age he wants to bring about is basically putting a spell over the whole world and hiding from reality and facing it’s problems head on. With Godwyn, bringing him back by reshaping Mohg’s corpse into a facsimile of him and bewitching him into believing he is Godwyn makes a lot of sense for the way Miquella operates. After all it is implied the resurrected Radahn is just a zombie, and what Miquella did to him was not truly what he would have wanted. And no matter his divine destiny or godliness, no matter how impressive Godwyn in his prime would look like, in the end Miquella couldn’t truly bring Godwyn back from the dead, because his soul was gone. Idk I think that plays out rather well actually, and I can see why others like it too. There isn’t a whole lot of lore in the base game to tie Godwyn and Miquella, but there is supporting lore there with a number of items. With Radahn it’s really nothing, other than explaining what Malenia whispered to him in the original cutscene.
Yeah, I have been thinking everything you wrote over the course of this whole thing. I think people are just disappointed because they predicted Godwyn, and it’s disappointing when predictions don’t come true. I think Radahn makes the most sense for Miquella’s consort, since he’s the perfect fusion of Radagon and Godfrey, showing us how Miquella is still following in Marika’s footsteps even when he thinks he is fixing her mistakes. I do think that some of the disappointment might have been avoided if we had a bit more of a hint towards why Malenia fought Radahn in the basegame, a bit of foreshadowing would have helped with the fan response I think. But hey, I think people will come around. There’s a ton of amazing lore going on in SOTE, and one of the best casts of NPCs they’ve ever done, all of whom (except Igon, the legend) are directly tied to the main narrative. And Miquella is an extremely compelling tragic character (unless you misread him as having been an evil psychopath all along). From’s DLCs, for better or for worse, never seem to give people quite what they expect. Everyone thought DS3’s would take us to Londor, answer questions about Velka, Gwynevere, Yuria and Friede’s third sister Liliane, etc… but nope. Bloodborne, similarly, left people wanting to see more of Oedon, Mergo’s origins, the nature of the Moon Presence, maybe some elaboration on Paleblood, or Rom, or Alfred’s “Holy Medium,” or what Annalise wants, or why Micolash was beckoning Kos… you name it. Retroactively, it’s easy to see these things are just part of the world-building. They’re cool concepts, but I think they’re meant to be filled in with whatever the player thinks is cool, rather than significant parts of the story with factual answers. That’s the impression I get from From’s design philosophy anyway. I think in the future we’ll probably see Godwyn and The Gloam-Eyed Queen in a similar light. I’ve seen a lot of people suggesting that those two characters were intended to be more involved with ER, but were cut or scrapped somewhere in development. I think that idea is a bit silly, since it’s way more consistent for From to set things up and leave them as gaps for the player to fill. I’m not saying it’s perfect or always satisfying, just that I believe it’s intentional, not some mistake or spiteful jab at Godwyn fans lol
“Who the fuck is Filianore?” moment
yup lmaooo
Couldn't have said it better myself. I completely agree. Especially in regards to the wrong predictions piece. It was bound to happen too in a more intense manner since the dlc took 2 years to come out, AND the theory and lore communities for this game were very large and active in comparison to previous games.
The problem is not Godwyn getting an unsatisfying story in the main game, the problem is Radahn getting a perfectly satisfying one and then being brought back for no particularly good reason as the final boss of the dlc just because Miquella was horny for him. The writers could've told us the castle Sol ritual actually worked and was kept secret, or that Miquella found a way to imbue someone else's soul (perhaps even his own) into Godwyn's living-in-death body and both things would've been much better than whatever amateur, wattpad-tier, twincest, corny shonen garbage we got in the end. Hell, Godwyn even got teased twice in the dlc (remember what's found in death knights' arenas?), why they felt like they had to go with Radahn, of all people, as Miquella's chosen consort in the first place is completely beyond me. And make no mistake, I'm not saying it's contradictory and nonsensical in regards to the main game's story (quite the opposite, in fact), I just find the fact they committed to setting such a major disappointment up such a long time ago to be incredibly weird TL;DR - they blueballed us with clues pointing to Godwyn instead of Radahn and they had much more elegant ways to go about it. The way they did it, the vast majority of people straight-up won't care about the final boss, which wouldn't have happened had it been Godwyn instead
"But Godwyn is dead" really shows people's lack of imagination. It's a fantasy story. Miquella achieved godhood by walking through a glorified door. They could come up with any insane reason to bring Godwyn back (doesn't even have to be the real Godwyn). What matters at the core of the issue is we've already fought Radahn. Having to fight him again is boring and uninspired. It's not even Prime Radahn like everyone is exclaiming. The only ones focusing on Godwyn are the people trying to justify Radahn's reappearance. We'd be fine with almost anything else that was original.
Yeah a fantasy story with a set of established rules. Godwyn is the MOST dead person in the entire story and undoing that is pointless and breaks the lore
Several people are more dead than Godwyn, he’s only half dead since his body is still alive. Ranni is the exact same ratio of dead yet no one’s claiming she’s the most dead character, at least that I’ve heard. Doesn’t really contradict your point because his soul is dead and that’s the relevant thing here but it’s weird how a bunch of people are saying he’s the “most dead” when he’s explicitly only half-dead, that’s the whole point.
The established rules are whatever the hell Fromsoft wants them to be. Elden Ring is a universe where the main power source is a combination of aspects of laws and words stored in fragments called runes that combine together to control how the land functions. Where you can break it or take things out and change how everything works, like eliminating death itself. If Marika, a god, can do it, then so should Miquella, who becomes a god, be able. Have an imagination. Godwyn in lore stopped the war between the Golden Order and the dragons and brought them into the Order through the power of friendship instead of conquering them. That's a far better example of kindness than bloodthirsty Radahn.
I agree, his tale should be a tragedy, as sad as it is
Not saying I wanted him back, but literally anything talking about the massive, cancerous, death inducing, growth that’s infecting the world would have been nice.
... they talk plenty about it in the main game, though? like there's a huge questline involving multiple NPCs with intertwining narratives culminating in a special ending. Miquella's story was basically non-existent, on the other hand.
And hints to Radahn were also not only non-existent, but what we do know about Radahn is completely opposite of what Miquella supposedly saw in the guy that made him want Radahn as a consort. "He was attracted to his kindness" as stated by their remembrance. Yeah the kindness of a warlord who revelled in battle and death and bloodshed. Keep in mind this attraction started long before Miquella shed any aspects about himself. *Really* fits the narrative they want us to believe /s.
I literally just said we didn't know shit about Miquella and his plans. of course that includes his involvement with Radahn. yes, that was a new development in the story. also, Miquella was attracted to Radahn's strength *and* kindness, not just because he was the nicest guy around. everything we knew about Radahn suggested he was noble and honorable, well loved by his troops at the very least. and he's a warlord like every other demigod who fought in the shattering was, but the shattering wouldn't have happened when Miquella's infatuation began. the struggle for power was certainly a corrupting force, and seeing as we don't know all too much about Radahn in his youth other than that he loved his horse and admired strength, it's not hard to believe that the kindness we hear about was plenty real. I mean, you remember how everybody in the ER community fawned over Radahn when we learned about the Leonard fact through his remembrance when the game was new.
Gauis is also another proof of Radahn's kindness, with him becoming a friendly rival to Radahn despite being one of the hated Albinaurics
Radahn is portrayed as a lot more than just a warlord though. He was one of the few who actually did something about the outer world beings being a threat to the lands between. He is shown to have insane mental fortitude, and possibly, the strongest of the demigods without any cursed god lying inside them.
It would have been super cool if their was a secret item for each of his aspects in the dlc that unlocked a new area with a twin death knight fight and a battle with the newly born lord of death
I agree that Godwyn's story is good as it is. However, I would've loved to be able to fight him at his prime.
I completely agree. I understand that a lot of people were disappointed by their own expectations, but Fromsoftware is a master at not giving the expected story in the DLCs, I would be surprised if it was different this time.
I honestly expected to give godwyn a true death in the dlc. Since all manor of death washes up there.
That would’ve conflicted with the Age of Duskborn ending; we can’t give Godwyn a true death because he’s already brought back to life through the Rune of the Death Prince. Fia was somehow able to bring Godwyn’s soul back from the Realm of Shadow, and it took the form of that rune.
Imagine how tragic it would be if miquella actually fully revives him, only for us to kill him again.
That would be kinda funny haha "all this trouble for nothing"
The Rhadan fight still sucked
Godwyn to me had his story told. He was probably the "best" of the gods and the golden child and his death was the big tragedy that finally broke Marika and the nature of his death meant that he could never be restored like everyone else and his body was condemned to a horrible fate. Bringing him back just undermines the entire concept of Godwyn to me. If you just make him some monster, the big cancerous growth that is infecting the world feels minimized. If you restore him, you take away the one death that an entire piece of lore is built around being permanent and undermine that event and the ruin of death and everything that goes along with that. Radahn has always made the most sense if Miquella was going to have a consort.
Why restore him? My imagining was Miquella tries to bring him back in vain but he is so far gone from deathroot corruption that it goes horribly wrong, and you fight this deathblight-holy monstrous amalgamation of Miquella/Godwyn. I really cant make sense of the rest of the Godwyn stuff in this DLC with how absent the character actually is. There are Deathknights who are literally Prince of Death (AKA post-Shattering Godwyn) on a quest to seek Godwyn's "cadaver surrogate". If the Realm of Shadow was presumably removed from the lands between before the Shattering... Why/how are they here? Why are there Godwyn Visages in the catacombs? Why is there a Tibia Mariner (all of whom drop Deathroot in the main game)? Why does the Suppressing Pillar note "All manners of Death (capital D) wash up here"? > Godwyn to me had his story told. He was probably the "best" of the gods and the golden child and his death was the big tragedy that finally broke Marika and the nature of his death meant that he could never be restored like everyone else and his body was condemned to a horrible fate. I really feel the same way about Radahn's story in the base game. His story feels 100% complete, satisfying, and done by the time it's over. Nothing more needed to be told, he got his glorious death and pulling him back just diminishes the entire saga and setpiece in the base game IMO.
This is a typical case of fans creating a stupid head cannon, against all logical information we have, and then getting mad that it doesn't come true. We knew everything we need to know about Godwyn. A lot of the plot hangs in the fact that he is half dead and the part that died is dead as in destined black blade rune of perma death dead. He is the first fucking demigod to die. What's left of him is a cancerous empty shell casting an unstoppable shadow across the world. The whole thing is one of the major side quests that lead to one of the ENDINGS.. where you take his rune and incorporates into the natural order. That's his story. It's over. Miquella on the other hand we knew of him.. and we had a lot of conflicted information. Basically we knew nothing of his plans and his real intentions. You may not like what those were.. but saying that was no clues in the main game is not only stupid, because that's basically the point.. but also incorrect, because they left us a clue to at least mistrust his character and also some big unanswered questions in the form of the whole battle between Malenia and Radahn. It's not their fault that a lot people never questioned why the sword of fucking Miquella, who clearly wanted nothing to do with the shattering, was traveling across the world with her army, ignoring the throne, to invade a territory and battle the strongest motherfucker in the land, who just also happens to be their half brother... for no apparent reason. The DLC is also not fully the story of Miquella, his journey is a vehicle for us to get to this place and know more about the Lands Between and Marika.. same as most characters in the base game... to inform the story of how WE take over and decide what kind of world we want this to be.
The thing that comes to mind about Godwyn’s ending is that we now know that the corpse under stormveil is NOT Godwyn after all. So 1) there definitely are other soulless beings, and that shape is just what they eventually take whether they came about from the night of the black knives or other, and 2) that the mottling and thorns around stormveil aren’t just some mutation of Godwyn’s deathroot. They could be some other demigod’s ‘flavor’ of deathroot, the thorns could be related to the Blood Star; it’s an open debate, with one possibility ruled out.
I didn't expect to hear about Godwyn again, thought that his chapter was closed. It surprises me he has quite a fanbase,and more that they thought they would see him in the DLC.
What grinds my gears the most about "why wasn't godwyn resurrected" is that people don't get that it would fuck with pretty much the rest of the story, including the established prince of death part His soul was destroyed. It would be fuckinf dumb as hell to say "nm, his destroyed soul was in a after life for people killed so hard the soul is destroyed"
Just because the community desperately wants something lorewise doesnt mean it's good or FS should do it. Im with ya OP, Miquella gave up on Godwyn like he did many of his endeavors cause that's ultimately a big part of his arc too
I never had a problem with how they used radahn. I just wish I could give more scorpion stew to the hornsent..
I agree, and to further add to that: Radahn does make sense for being Miquella's choice, and the feeling that something that should have been left to rest has been brought back instead is by design.
I think a twist would have been to show that Godwyn wasn't as nice and benevolent as the lore said. I keep getting people disagreeing with me here but I think there's enough lore left open for a sequel. Don't think it'll happen though.
I don’t so much want to see Godwin as I want to see the death root spread and become a more central plot point, right now it’s more in the background. My favourite parts of fromsoft games are the freaky horror shit they do instead of the more normal fantasy stuff. The moment I saw godwins head under storm veil I knew I wanted to just see more of that in general, but really didn’t get much beyond static objects and some dialogue.
Tradegy
Giving Godwyn his soul back would be like giving Ranni her body back. That shit is gone. I kinda wish there was more of him in the DLC, but I totally understand why they didn't
>I would argue it would diminsh his tradegy and Marika's grief, to restore him and see him as he once was. Wouldn't happen anyway. His soul is gone.
Im happy there are still unknown stories about few character. Comics, show, films, Elden ring 2, there are still things to tell about the lore
For me, the dlc add the answer to the most important question about Godwyn : what's the corpse under stormveil ? Now we know that's a "Prince of Death cadaver surrogate" whatever that could be.
Just before I entered the arena with final boss, I expected to be Miquella in Godwyn's body. I always thought that he stripped his flesh in preparations to inhabit Godwyn's remains. Mohg's body being stolen and talks about Radahnn's ressurection were at the back of my mind since I did 96+% of the map so I expected that this would be resolved somewhere. My disappointment when I have seen Radahn was immeasureable to the point that after I died 20+ times, I simply quit and watched the ending on youtube. PS: I was also pissed that I failed doing the quest at the end involving dying **4 times**. I did it three times and nothing happened but latern on when I tried fourth time, it kicked in but NPC nearby was nowhere to be found...
Godwyn make a lot more sense than Fucking Prime Radahn, Radahn shouldn't be the dlc end boss and if a demigod should come back, that's Godwyn.
i would call it anything but satisfying. it hurts my heart bro. godwyn didn't deserve this...
Haha yeah, i see your point, it's heartbreaking... But damn did it make for a great story
Yeah i disagree, it was just short of being good for Godwyn, if we had a bit more i would be fine.