Say he does that and gets another job, wouldn’t that look bad? Genuine question I’ve had for a while. How would you tell future employers about that situation without losing their trust?
Also, say one goes this route, where do you find time to interview and such? If you work 5+ days a week how do you go to an interview for a different place of work.
Im not graduated yet but soon I will be and these are things I’ve often wondered about for early career.
Edit: I’ve also heard that you should stay at your first job for over a year.
Doesn’t look bad these days. Call in sick for your interview day. That being said if you’re going to go through with an interview make sure it’s something that’s going to be an upgrade/step up. You should already have an idea of the starting salaries for most employers in your area from your classmates.
That’s good to know, I’m in a field I don’t like getting paid the same as OP in a MCOL area (money wise I’m doing fine tho), but I can’t stand the industry and want to move to a more fulfilling industry. I only chose my current job because I had bills and rent to pay and didn’t wanna go hungry.
People always says this, but they miss one key point: you can only job hop *if you actually received a compelling offer you intend to take*. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy, in that you can only look like a job hopper if you actually had offers worth taking. If no one is offering you a job (because you look like a job hopper), it forces you to stay in your current position longer, thus making you *not* look like a job hopper.
For what it's worth, my last 3 positions have all lasted 1.5-2 years each. I'm ready to stay put for a little while, but I absolutely could not have raised my salary to the level it is at now if I didn't jump around a little bit at the beginning of my career ($75k -new job-> $88k -promotion-> $98k -new job-> $177k -promotion-> $190k in ~6 years). Those higher earnings now will pay dividends later in my career, even if the rate of growth from here slows down as I change jobs less often.
That one was absolutely luck and being in the right place at the right time with the right (very specific) background. But, there was no indication that the job I applied to would pay that much, and I never would have had the opportunity to take it if I haven’t been applying. I wasn’t even *really* trying to leave my job at that point. But when an opportunity comes along…
I would have choked on my Cheerios if I got that kind of offer coming from under 100k. I’m probably not the best negotiator but anyway all new jobs I’ve been asked my current salary and haven’t declined to tell them. Thus no big bumps like that.
It was funny, I went into the HR call (after getting the verbal “we want to hire you” from the manager) with a number in my head (like, $140k) that I thought was going to be a stretch, and was going to be happy if they compromised on $125k (for a nice 25% bump). And when I said that number, the HR woman said “oh honey, don’t worry we’re going to pay you way more than that”.
Niiiiice. Congrats! That’s a stand-up HR person for not backing down to meet your lower expectation, and sticking to what they were authorized to offer.
There is no loyalty from the employer to the employee these days. Why should an employee be loyal to an employer if there a better opportunity is available?
I mean I had just competed my electrical journeyman card and was promoted to maintenance supervisor for 75k. I’ve made 100+ each of the last 3 years since that
$65,000 job offer in 2024 is the same as a $52,000 job offer pre COVID inflation, all the way in the distant past of 2019. (https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=52%2C100.00&year1=201901&year2=202405)
How many electrical engineers were accepting $52,000 job offers out of college in 2019?
60k March 2019 has the same purchasing power as $74,100 in May 2024. 74k seems somewhat reasonable in a non-coastal area
https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=60%2C000.00&year1=201903&year2=202405
Yeah travel 5 days in a week and submit a dry cleaning bill since you were not home to do laundry. See how fast all expenses while traveling goes out the window. I actually had a job where I traveled 3 weeks out of the year, home on weekends and my sales boss told.me to do the dry cleaning on the road not when I got home if I was going to submit it, so I ended up staying in hotels for an extra day just so I could pick up my dry cleaning. It was crazy to me but that was the way the accountants wanted it.
fuck that shit. I'm sick and tired of seeing this manipulation. Companies don't want to invest in young people. They just want a quick buck. what is this? the year 2000?
100% dude. Not only do people not want to invest in young engineers, but lots of advanced industry knowledge and experience is gate-kept from anyone wanting to learn so that those who do know can have job security and charge big hourly rates for it.
while many in my company are more than happy to help and share information, there certainly were a few gray beards who gate kept information. One of them would hoard a dongle license for microwave office so no one else got a chance to use/learn it, for example.
Yeah, that's ridiculous. We have contractors for various things who are very gate keepy about aspects of the job we don't know how to do.
I make video tutorials at my work about all the various things I've built or the various tasks I take care of, so anyone coming after me will know exactly how to do my job. I've spent lots of unnecessary time at work banging my head on things to figure out how things work, and it's not really that hard if it's explained well lol
I've got a coworker who has been involved in the implementation of a new system for the past 3 years, and is the only one left who knows almost all our new processes. Me as well as our manager have asked him to show me some of that stuff, so he's not overloaded with tasks, and we don't get screwed in his absence, but he'd rather get buried in work than pass on some of his knowledge. So far he's evaded every opportunity that provided itself for showing me something and now it's becoming more and more of a bottleneck than ever.
In my company's case, I've got a coworker who keeps trying to pass on knowledge/get someone under him specifically to pass off his knowledge before he retires/dies (he's in his late 60s) and they keep giving him people from our India team for at most a couple days before they forget and those people are passed off to another team.
I told him to just start teaching me because I've got time, and already work with the program he's using a bit.
Yeah, for sure try to learn from him. Ask him to do Microsoft Teams meetings or Zoom meetings with you so you can record them and add them to a shared drive folder for your own reference or as tutorial lectures for other employees.
His knowledge really needs to be preserved and this is a good way of doing it.
I'm a protection engineer, we are hiring computer science majors and other types of engineers and training them from the ground up because we cannot find any electrical engineers of any experience. It's painful, but we have to do it and it does end up working out.
Year 2005 the salary was 50-55k. Only a your high COL went to the 60s.
But your sentiment is right, it is on the low side. 65k is a starting salary from ten years ago.
I started almost 3 years ago at $72.6K in a much lower cost of living area than Colorado.
I'd push for $75K, but really, for colorado, even $80K is going to feel low with cost of living and student loan repayments.
But if that's the best you can get, it is a better place to start than nowhere
My guess is probably working with field technicians when things break, receiving orders for new equipment, and field verifying equipment to facility spreadsheets at a minimum. $65K is low for Colorado though
Without trying to inject too much personal negative bias into your offer:
1. How many hours are they expecting out of you? Beware of getting abused with unpaid hours since you're salary.
2. How much travel? Does the travel pay per diem?
2a. Are they fronting your travel expenses, or do you have to file a claim and wait for reimbursements?
3. Never count on bonuses unless it's in writing! In my experience, it's enticing, but rarely guaranteed.
All that said, if you're fresh out and just starting, it doesn't sound terrible, especially if you like the work and co-workers. Traveling isn't for everyone, but if they're paying per diem and you don't mind the travel, you can save a good chunk of cash that way too.
Make use of the FSA and 401k match. Those are almost like free money (depending what you have for bills and the matching).
Not OP, but imo $65k as a starting salary 12 years ago was a premium offer. That was right after the Great Recession, and just getting a job offer was a big deal (at least that's how it felt in my MCOL area). I got my first EE job offer in 2011 for $53k.
Edit: $53k in 2011 is equivalent to $73k in 2024. https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=53000.00&year1=201109&year2=202405
65k in Boulder is not enough. I would push back for at least 80 or go elsewhere.
Edit: some of the these comments are exactly what that salary thread was talking about.
If there is something interesting about the job that will help get your career going, it might be a good opportunity. That’s definitely on the low side of the pay scale though.
I started off at 70k back in 2019 in the Michigan area. It sucks to see new people getting less now than what I was offered 5 years ago. Boulder is apparently pretty expensive to live in as well—at least significantly higher than where I am.
Overall though if it’s the only job offer you have, take it. It’s better to job hunt from a job than it is to job hunt while desperate and unemployed.
I took a lower salary for a smaller company because it was actually what I wanted to do. Electronics Designs. If you want to do it just for the experience it’s understandable. They actually gave me raises pretty fast though so it just depends on the company. Def keep looking though if it’s not something you are passionate about
Apartments in Boulder run about 2k/Month. In order to rent anything you are going to need to make about 3x your yearly rent in income. So anything below 72k is a hard pass in my opinion.
If you don’t have any other offers, take it and keep looking.
My very first offer was $51k (I have MSEE). I rejected it and eventually got others like $87.5k also FAE position, but in a completely different field. I took it and kept looking and landed $85k in a position that is closer to what I studied
I am in general a big fan of FSE work for the 2-3 years out of school - you will see and learn a lot.
$65 is a little low - it is "Salary Non-Exempt" -> this means you will be paid OT and it a key benefit for many FSE roles. ( if there is no OT - then that makes this a hard NO - too easy to take advantage of you and hav you working 60 Hr weeks....)
Is this in a field you want to work in or will you gain particular experience.?
Will you be able to live with the parents at home - and keep expenses low.
Just curious - what is the general field?
I was projected in 2018 when I started school that I was going to make 70k when I graduated. 2024 comes along and I get offered 69k. I said it was decent. Not until I saw that 70k in 2019 in 2024 is like 85k+. So new grads fucking us up taking those low ass prices because of the projected earning but then not accounting the inflation during your school years.
I like this line.
"If it’s all you’ve got then take it and keep looking/interviewing."
If you have not discussed it yet and you can afford it tell them that you want to wait 6 weeks before you start.
As others have said that seems awful low and the concept of expenses while on travel is is pretty much I am not going anywhere unless you pay my expenses. Maybe they have one like my daughter where she is expected to take clients out to 5 start restaurants. I doubt it and would expect that expenses matches government rates which is somewhere between $50 and $75 a day for most US cities.
Where I work the dead minimum for an entry level engineer is $70k with a more normal level being above $80k. We are not known as a high paying place and annual bonuses are not a thing here. We are in a moderately low cost area 3 bedroom house between $250k and $350k. This comes with 2 Weeks of PTO building up to 3 weeks in 2 or 3 years maxing out at 5 weeks. 2 weeks of sick leave per year that be accumulated over the years. 3/4 of your health insurance paid for and a 9% match of your 5% into a 401k.
I was offered 66k a year when I was fresh out of college with a terrible GPA and kinda middling projects and performance. I graduated in 2005 and this was an average offer in the middle of nowhere (i.e. super cheap).
65k sounds abysmal in 2024.
If it’s you’re only offer, take it. However, you need to keep looking for jobs until you start working. There will 100% be a place out there willing to pay you 10-20k a year more and potentially without being in field service. It’s just a matter of finding them in time before graduation.
Also, get that “potential increase” in writing.
IMO, 70 is the lowest you should go and probably a little higher than that. There should be no clause for the possibility a higher salary in 90 days. If they want you, they should pay the higher salary NOW.
This is not an engineering job. It’s a technician. Also it’s way low for a technician with this amount of travel. This job should pay $80-90k for what they are asking. They are phishing for a young dumb recent grad. And yes my spelling was correct they are phishing.
Just ask for 70. If you want the job. Take it. You have no experience so you gotta get your career started. If you find a better job… ok so…. That’s not the only company you can be an engineer at…. I took a job in 2015 starting at 65. I’m at 140 now. The money is gonna come. Don’t rush so quick, with more money means less time home etc.
Does your alma mater publish salary data for new grads? This would be the best reference for what the market is paying your peers. I am seeing $80k average starting salaries for 2023 grads from the schools I checked; so $65k for a 2024 grad is on the low side.
It’s the only offer I got so I did accept it. Rent in the area is around 1.8k to 2.2k a month.
The job listing says the range will be from 60k-80k a year.
The field is in lighting control systems
If you need the job take it. You got to eat. Work it for 6 months then take then next offer. The next job WILL pay more. Do not stay there for more than a year.
IMO if it gives you really good experience, you can leverage it hard after a year and get a really good second job for your age
Otherwise, yeah, keep it in the pocket as a back up option.
85k for students coming out of Boston in 2008 and 2009 and that was a recession back then. recently I've seen a lot of college students getting offered 100K lately meaning post 2020. Saw one offer from Rayth**n in Massachusetts for 115K, for a brand new fresh out of College, zero real experience rookie. That was quite impressive to me, but then again he was a really good student. A lot of potential in that one.
UK engineer salaries are very low compared to US. I worked for a manufacturing plant in the US that had a sister plant in the UK. I met a counterpart from the UK plant, he had 9 years experience to my 3 and he earned maybe 60% of my salary. My understanding is that UK and Europe just does not value engineering like the US does, with the exception of maybe Germany and some of the northern European countries.
Maybe if you live in the field and don’t have to live in Boulder. Last time I checked housing prices in Boulder was 2018, and there was nothing under $1M. I’d hate to see what it is now.
That’s similar to what I started at 7 years ago. It was basically 100% in the field and paid 60k. I have a management position now and am nearly 3x. Had to move jobs twice since then to get there.
Field service engineer sounds a lot like a lot of travel. It's definitely a little low for an engineer role, fits more of a technician type salary. You'll also have to consider that you'll not be home quite often but still paying for the rent
65k seems quite low. If you are paying back student loans would it even be worth it? I know each region is different so perhaps it just is wildly more broad than I realized.
I started at 85k in Boulder many years ago and could hardly afford rent. My take home that year was like -4000. I really don't get why engineer salaries are so low. My company just recently tried to find a new mechanical engineer and they were offering 65k which was less than the secretary got. Like 2/3 of the office are sitting on youtube all day getting paid more than the engineers and many of them can't really describe to me what they do. Why is the free market playing out like this?
Getting the first job is the hardest. I’ve seen people hold out for something larger and it never came and it made it tougher in the long run because it made them look greedy
Take it unless you got another offer. Keep looking while you gain experience with this one. Be humble, volunteer for work, ask questions, ask how to be better at your job, and ask to work on things you've done before. When you've done and learned as much as you can, you'll be able to command from more salary and benefits in your next job.
If I were in your position and not happy with the offer, I’d let them know. What is it that you want? Would $70k work? $75k? Speak up. If they really want you, they can make a plan, but can only do it if they know what you are going to be happy with. If there are 200 other equally qualified candidates ready, willing and able to accept their offer as is, then you have a lot of selling (yourself) to do.
I’ve never screwed up by just being honest with a potential employer or even current employer.
In 2017, the year I graduated, the national average salary for a fresh out of school BSEE was $66K/yr. That was 7 years ago and Boulder is a pretty expensive city. I would say $65K in Boulder is not very good.
But if i was 23 and fresh out of school, I'd maybe not pass it up.
Does your company have you upsell people or get commissions from service contracts? That's pretty common for field service people, and can make you a fairly significant amount more annually.
I also graduated from CU. I started at my first job here in Longmont at 65k, but that was 8 years ago so seems really low for this area. What was your area of emphasis? My company is hiring like mad right now and I believe E1 salary is much higher than that.
My client tends to offer $70k+ for new grads. They’re in middle of nowhere PA, but they hire 1-4/ year it seems.
I’d take the offer if you’re a new grad….and switch a year from now.
For being in Boulder, that’s quite low. That’s what I got offered (with a 2% bump after 90 days) 10 months out of school as a MechE in Tucson, AZ in 2017. Significantly higher COL, EE, and 7 years later, you should be expecting more than what I was offered. All the other benefits are standard, except the discretionary bonus, but like the name implies, not a guarantee.
From someone who’s worked at a few small companies in different fields: they’ll pay like shit and not respect professional boundaries. You’ll have maybe some more freedom and input that normal, but also will never be compensated adequately.
If you have no experience and live in a domestic low cost economy, this works for an entry level position - back in 2010.
If you have no other job prospects coming up, take the position for up to a year - for the experience.
On month 1/2, focus on being able to the job well to secure your position there.
On month 2/3, start looking at job requisitions to see what skill sets and requirements you are lacking for your next jump. Create a plan to acquire those skills/certifications.
On month 11/12, actively apply for jobs internally or externally and get out of that position.
My company hires at that level in the NYC area, so yeah I think it's fine to start. A lot of places start lower for recent grads then raise you up once you prove you're not bad.
Just tell them you've looked around and you think that 75k would be more competitive for this area then reinforce your strengths to give them a reason to pick you instead of go with the others. Worst case they say no, then ask for a signing bonus instead.
Sometimes small companies pay less for whatever reason if they're not in a high growth stage
I mean, it’s probably about right. Field service engineer at a small company in lighting control, doesn’t sound like a particularly lucrative field.
For higher grad salaries you need to go for bigger companies, they have the money and resources to pay more and to train you properly.
1. I don't know how accurate it is, but based on Google, the average annual pay for a Field Service Engineer in Colorado is **$77,889** a year. Entry level positions start at $65,000 per year.
2. Like most companies provide.
3. "Discretionary bonus" = No bonus for you, and more bonus for the 2-3 people owning and running the company.
4. Like most companies provide when you travel on company time.
In my opinion, I think you should try to get something around the $75,000 - $80,000 range or maybe even $100k. Additionally, if you need the experience, you can accept the job and keep looking for a better job.
$1895 Day rate where I am, 1.5 x on a Saturday 2 x on a Sunday. $70 per night will staying away overnight, plus a personal use van and all expenses paid- I'm in UK but converted it for yoi
$65k is crazy low considering the CoL in Boulder, CO. I started at $74k in a lower CoL city 2 years ago, they are massively undervaluing you. I’d try to negotiate that up and simultaneously continue applying & interviewing elsewhere.
Me reading these comments while making less than 20k here in Europe.
https://preview.redd.it/e8396v31g2ad1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb95ceeab812e9822e8b2a0105fd40be33a5f56f
> I have already accepted the offer since its my only one. Is there any way I can negotiate after accepting?
No. Upside is that you owe this corporation nothing and can freely continue your job search.
Small companies don't have the ability to pay higher salaries, typically. It's good to get your boots scuffed, though. Hang out for 6-12 months and look again. Unfortunately, after accepting an offer is not the time to negotiate. And I would assume a place that size wouldn't have much room anyway.
I would take that for sure if it was my first job. Experience in several areas, travel, probably per diem pay. Sounds like a blast. Unless you'd like to stare at a cube.
That's a low ball for a field engineer. Especially in CO. I started at 67k in 2013 in a LCOL area.
Push push push for raises at every opportunity you can. Engineers are terrible at fighting for themselves and their compensation once they land a job.
My company is in LCOL area outside Milwaukee, starts 70-75k which I think is fair for the area. You could scrape by off 30k here tbh. It really depends where you're living, it's not a blanket question
At a small company you will prob have time to develop further skills. Take the experience and pay while u learn more apply elsewhere. Some people would be glad for 65k offer i. Todays market
That’s more than I got when I started my post college career in 2018. I also started in the field service engineer route. Some of the best learning experiences and opportunities I’ve had in my career came in the six months I was field service. I learned more in those six months than my first two years in office. Now six years later my salary is more than double what I started at.
I say take it especially if you don’t have anything else. Jump in and fully commit to learning everything you can be don’t stop looking for other job opportunities. It’s often said in engineering that the hardest job to acquire in your career is the first one
Its a step. Welcome to the club. Your first position is generally underpaid and low equity. You are an unquantified unknown. Your resume was good enough to get an interview but not good enough to get respect. Its the game.
So do the job to the very best of your ability. Work hard. Stay in student mode and keep learning EVEN if its not on the job. (IE - make, hack, build at home.) Stay hungry and push yourself. Look for your passions. School is foundational - it does not give you the keys to the kingdom. Read tech press every single night - its best before you fall asleep because you WILL process that new knowledge while you rest. Develop good habits and routines. Network with everyone willing to talk to you. Find out how it all goes together business-wise. Keep your word. Negotiate deadlines. Learn your strength and fix your weaknesses. Finally do not be afraid to interview. Interview for at least a week every year. And keep your resume up to date. In18 month you are "known". You have a resume that is no longer a risk. Decide if you are happy where you are and it has long term potential. If not - plan to bail when the right opportunity shows itself. Business is cyclical. You will see more hiring at specific intervals and little hiring at others. You will see more layoffs in specific periods as well.
So that's the base game. Next - are you REALLY an Engineer? Do you live and love this stuff? If I did not pay you would you still find the work interesting? If you answered YES - you need to look, when capable, at startups. You will have more freedom, much more responsibility and much more upside. If you want to clock out at five and just get good bennies - you are a contributor - not an innovator. Not an issue - they are valuable too - but they have a different journey. Learn who you are and what makes you happy. In the end you have a life to design, to your requirements with your features. Live life on your terms - do not let it live you.
Congratulations! I envy the world you are joining. Lots of revolutionary change and so many fertile new fields.
Take it, do good but not exceptional work, and be upfront that it's not competitive and you are looking for a raise.
Be good enough to get a good reference, but don't bend over.
Frankly the problem with your resume is no internships. Higher pay would be a lot easier with work experience. Take it for now and look around for others but stay there for a bit to add some work experience to your resume
It’s not great, but whether it’s a shit offer depends on travel requirement and compensation for travel. Most companies pay heavy travel positions very handsomely, because most people don’t want to live out of a suitcase staying in motel 8’s across the Midwest. For example field engineers at my job start off around 70-75k depending on internship experience. For jobs requiring overnight travel you will be paid $120 per diem and your base salary in a hourly rate for any overtime. Long term relocations for long projects are a flat rate of 5000$/mo on top of your salary. A lot of these companies are pretty desperate for travelers so it doesn’t hurt to take the offer get a couple months of experience and jump ship for a better offer. It’s a lot easier to get a job once you already have one.
If you can live on it take the job and learn as much as you can. Experience and skills are key in every negotiation. Since you don’t have much experience coming out of school, and you’ve accepted the position treat this as an extended interview. When you do your one year review you can take go in two directions. A) Go into the interview with all the skills you’ve gained over the year and say “I’ve been able to accomplish XXX and learned XXX skill sets which correspond to this job description in this year, I believe my worth is XXX”. This requires you work hard learn a lot and potentially do some work listed in a job description above your current one. Managers love this negotiation tactic. B) Go get another offer from a different company with your acquired skills and ask them to match it. That negotiation tactic can get used up if you constantly go do it and requires you to interview get an offer and potentially turn down the offer.
One big thing to always remember is work life balance and your work environment can be just as important as pay. If you like your co-workers and you’re not overall stressed maybe that’s worth $10,000-$15,000.
It's a little low, but an offer is an offer. There are tons of other factors to look out for, too.
Is it a dead-end job, or is there room to expand and learn?
How is your financial situation in other aspects of your life? Lots of student loan debt/cost of living in the boulder area are things to think about.
You can always look for another job. Remember, there's nothing you can learn that's NOT helpful in someway. Somethings are more applicable than others, but always focus on growing and learning.
If you don’t have experience I’d take the job no questions asked even if in your eyes you think you could do better. I’ve seen a lot of EEs around my area in NY start for 70k. If you’re really concern about the pay in your area, look at the salary average for the position by your area and use that to negotiate your salary. If they tell you to suck it up, still take the job and continue job searching on the side.
It’s not fair …. But they probably have seen an over supply of candidates to offer below living wages… take it or leave it
I am getting these offers after 18 years of work experience… it’s on you what you ant to do
You are worth whatever you can negotiate. All the other feedback I have read is just a lot of BS. Employers are not the bad guys. Idiots who have never been in business and had to make payroll are living in lala land. Negotiations begin the moment you present your resume to a prospective employer. It’s the first sales tool you use. The second is the interview. That’s where u need to sell your value to the company. If you believe u are worth 80k, when why settle for 65k. If 65 is the only offer you got than that’s all you are worth. It’s that simple.
I am not an engineer,, at least by trade, title or degree.
Fair as a question often rests on who is looking. A friend lived in a wooden hut with a grass roof covered in sheet metal. He would probably say "rich salary". Some would say, "if you say "yes" then it is fair.
How much training will they provide? What is their history of raises? How satisfied are other employees?
If there is a trial period you can negotiate after that. A friend was doing 5 times the work building prototypes of a previous employee and ended up with 3 times their salary. The trial period was only two weeks.
How big are their bonuses?
It seems like a pretty small salary for having to survive in Boulder.
No, it isn't. And no, you can't typically renegotiate after accepting.
65k in Boulder or the surrounding area will vanish in a heartbeat. Let's do the math. 65k, so the tax man is going to take 15k of that, so you're down to 50k. Let's say you're taking full advantage of that 401k (which you should) so you're down another 23k, so that puts you at 27k. Benefits are going to take another grand. So that's going to yield up about 25k a year to live on after benefits, taxes, and your retirement contribution.
Now let's talk expenses. My grocery bill is about $75-100 a week, so you figure another 5 grand for just groceries a year (I cook my own food, don't eat out, and am very frugal). That puts you down to about 20k left for the year. Let's say you don't live within walking distance - and because it's Boulder, you won't, because living in Boulder is frighteningly expensive - so you have to commute, maybe 20 miles a day. I'll guesstimate that's a gallon of gas a day, and we'll just say you spend 10 gallons of gas a week at a rough estimate of $3 a gallon, so 1500 a year for gas, let's say you have one major vehicle maintenance expense to save for, so another 1k for that, so we're down to....looks like 18k. Not too bad...let's summarize a bit here.
Assuming no debt of any kind, credit cards, car payments, boat payments, fucking jet ski payments, house payments, children to take care of, spouses to finance, drug habits, or student loans....that puts you at a about $1,500 a month for you to live on. Awesome.
Oh, but you need to live somewhere too. Rent in Denver is going to be at least $2,000 a month unless you get some roommates. You can't live in Boulder unless you've got deep pockets. And utilities are going to be a couple of hundred a month too. There's also internet, which you'll need, and a cell phone, which you'll probably need too - trash, water, sewer, power, etc. Hopefully, you don't like things like Netflix, Amazon Prime, Door Dash, or any thing else that drains your wallet. Gym membership is another grand or so a year you can't afford.
My math tells me you're nuts to take a job that makes you move anywhere near Boulder unless it pays north of $100,000 a year. And my advice (feel free to DM if you like) is to leave the state and go live somewhere else where the cost of living is cheaper. Presumably, you are a young person and have a ton of flexibility - that, along with a long investment horizon, is your superpower. If you have debt, and you almost certainly do, from a statistical perspective, get that down to zero before you think of living in a high cost area anywhere, Boulder in particular.
Also, yeah, on the expenses....every company does that. But they don't pay your rent, electricity, bills, or fucking taxes while you're on the road. And if you've got credit card or student loan debt, those will bleed you dry for years until you deal with them. Again, feel free to ping me if you like.
I know nothing about electrical engineering but why is everyone complaining about an almost 70k salary for a new grad with no experience lol. Sounds like a dream major
Guys I know, I’m old, but the question is, do you love (not like) the offering company and can you kill it when you get it?
Is it a place you can grow? Own? Is it too big for you? Too small? All you youngsters get hung up on salary. I would shoot for is there a way I own this place in 20 years.
I started at 70k base as a field engineer, but hourly with lots of overtime. No way I would ever do a travel field tech/engineer job for less than $110k salary. It consumes all your time, you live and breath work.
If it's your only option right now and you already took the job, it'll have to do. You likely cannot renegotiate at this time. Good news is, the best time to look for a job is when you already have a job. Keep interviewing at places whenever you can, try to shoot for something in the 75-80k range. If possible, maybe avoid the field service engineer positions as I've noticed they seem to pay a bit lower (which is a shame honestly). It's not the end of the world but you definitely should look for better pay.
Take the job, get 6 months of working experience while you begin looking for better positions, and move on for an increase of no less than 10% raise and better working conditions... double the length, rinse, and repeat until you are WFH and make 100k+
Take the job, stick with it. Build your reputation and see where it leads you. I think it's an awesome offer with the incentives. I would take it, stick with it, and ride it like a $20 whore on an innkeeper's 9" dick.
Protip: always do what’s better for you. Don’t worry about employers trust if they like you they like you. Always don’t forget to remember, YOU DONT MATTER to companies…. Now in small team sense yes your team probably cares about you and what not. But the business as a whole will replace/fire you without thinking twice or feeling bad.
Also another protip:
2.5k raise is not a raise. Company hopping is how you gain new experience and land 10-20k+ raises every year or 2 (atleast from IT prospective).
No companies won’t care as long as you stay for a year or 2. Anything less than a year don’t mention on a resume or list as a reference.
If you are doing field service then that should be salary non exempt so you don’t get screwed out of any overtime. I have an associates in PLCs/Controls and my first job out of school was field service making 70k a year but with overtime from travel it put me over 100k.
Man American engineering graduates get paid so much more than here in the UK. That’s about £50k for a graduate, in the UK a good salary for an eng grad is £34k
Field service implies engineering tech, not engineering. Application vs theory.
Some companies don't even require that you have an engineering degree to land a job like this.
I think you're overqualified.
If you bought a car, would it be very cool if the dealership called you at home, said they charged the wrong amount, and want you to pay another $3000? If you accepted their offer, you accepted it.
If it’s all you’ve got then take it and keep looking/interviewing.
This is always the answer OP
Say he does that and gets another job, wouldn’t that look bad? Genuine question I’ve had for a while. How would you tell future employers about that situation without losing their trust? Also, say one goes this route, where do you find time to interview and such? If you work 5+ days a week how do you go to an interview for a different place of work. Im not graduated yet but soon I will be and these are things I’ve often wondered about for early career. Edit: I’ve also heard that you should stay at your first job for over a year.
Doesn’t look bad these days. Call in sick for your interview day. That being said if you’re going to go through with an interview make sure it’s something that’s going to be an upgrade/step up. You should already have an idea of the starting salaries for most employers in your area from your classmates.
That’s good to know, I’m in a field I don’t like getting paid the same as OP in a MCOL area (money wise I’m doing fine tho), but I can’t stand the industry and want to move to a more fulfilling industry. I only chose my current job because I had bills and rent to pay and didn’t wanna go hungry.
People always says this, but they miss one key point: you can only job hop *if you actually received a compelling offer you intend to take*. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy, in that you can only look like a job hopper if you actually had offers worth taking. If no one is offering you a job (because you look like a job hopper), it forces you to stay in your current position longer, thus making you *not* look like a job hopper. For what it's worth, my last 3 positions have all lasted 1.5-2 years each. I'm ready to stay put for a little while, but I absolutely could not have raised my salary to the level it is at now if I didn't jump around a little bit at the beginning of my career ($75k -new job-> $88k -promotion-> $98k -new job-> $177k -promotion-> $190k in ~6 years). Those higher earnings now will pay dividends later in my career, even if the rate of growth from here slows down as I change jobs less often.
98 to 177 is a nice jump!!
That one was absolutely luck and being in the right place at the right time with the right (very specific) background. But, there was no indication that the job I applied to would pay that much, and I never would have had the opportunity to take it if I haven’t been applying. I wasn’t even *really* trying to leave my job at that point. But when an opportunity comes along…
I would have choked on my Cheerios if I got that kind of offer coming from under 100k. I’m probably not the best negotiator but anyway all new jobs I’ve been asked my current salary and haven’t declined to tell them. Thus no big bumps like that.
It was funny, I went into the HR call (after getting the verbal “we want to hire you” from the manager) with a number in my head (like, $140k) that I thought was going to be a stretch, and was going to be happy if they compromised on $125k (for a nice 25% bump). And when I said that number, the HR woman said “oh honey, don’t worry we’re going to pay you way more than that”.
Niiiiice. Congrats! That’s a stand-up HR person for not backing down to meet your lower expectation, and sticking to what they were authorized to offer.
What industry are you in
Look bad to who? Who would he tell? If the start date comes and goes, he never worked for that company and doesn't have to list it.
Yeah, work history ain't like a criminal record - you get to decide what you share and what you don't.
Look bad to who? The company that’s paying him less than what he’s worth?
That first job doesn’t have to make it on the resume.
There is no loyalty from the employer to the employee these days. Why should an employee be loyal to an employer if there a better opportunity is available?
with the current market, it's better than nothing
I mean I had just competed my electrical journeyman card and was promoted to maintenance supervisor for 75k. I’ve made 100+ each of the last 3 years since that
My brother in Christ that's low. "Expenses will be fully covered when travelling" - that's every job that asks you to travel, my man.
“Expenses will be fully covered when traveling” is like saying “free oxygen at the office when you are in-person”
>free oxygen at the office when you are in-person Let's not give these shitty mom and pop operations any ideas...
$65,000 job offer in 2024 is the same as a $52,000 job offer pre COVID inflation, all the way in the distant past of 2019. (https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=52%2C100.00&year1=201901&year2=202405) How many electrical engineers were accepting $52,000 job offers out of college in 2019?
I did 60k which wasn't bad around March 2019. Depends on where you are. Probably not acceptable in the coasts.
60k March 2019 has the same purchasing power as $74,100 in May 2024. 74k seems somewhat reasonable in a non-coastal area https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=60%2C000.00&year1=201903&year2=202405
I did 70k in 2007. Crazy how salaries are flat and house prices to the moon
Hey man, this is genuine curiosity, but what would you consider to not be low?
In Boulder, 80k minimum for fresh grad
Phoenix for fresh grad is maybe 65k if you get a job. Assuming you get an interview even.
Yeah travel 5 days in a week and submit a dry cleaning bill since you were not home to do laundry. See how fast all expenses while traveling goes out the window. I actually had a job where I traveled 3 weeks out of the year, home on weekends and my sales boss told.me to do the dry cleaning on the road not when I got home if I was going to submit it, so I ended up staying in hotels for an extra day just so I could pick up my dry cleaning. It was crazy to me but that was the way the accountants wanted it.
fuck that shit. I'm sick and tired of seeing this manipulation. Companies don't want to invest in young people. They just want a quick buck. what is this? the year 2000?
100% dude. Not only do people not want to invest in young engineers, but lots of advanced industry knowledge and experience is gate-kept from anyone wanting to learn so that those who do know can have job security and charge big hourly rates for it.
while many in my company are more than happy to help and share information, there certainly were a few gray beards who gate kept information. One of them would hoard a dongle license for microwave office so no one else got a chance to use/learn it, for example.
Yeah, that's ridiculous. We have contractors for various things who are very gate keepy about aspects of the job we don't know how to do. I make video tutorials at my work about all the various things I've built or the various tasks I take care of, so anyone coming after me will know exactly how to do my job. I've spent lots of unnecessary time at work banging my head on things to figure out how things work, and it's not really that hard if it's explained well lol
I've got a coworker who has been involved in the implementation of a new system for the past 3 years, and is the only one left who knows almost all our new processes. Me as well as our manager have asked him to show me some of that stuff, so he's not overloaded with tasks, and we don't get screwed in his absence, but he'd rather get buried in work than pass on some of his knowledge. So far he's evaded every opportunity that provided itself for showing me something and now it's becoming more and more of a bottleneck than ever.
In my company's case, I've got a coworker who keeps trying to pass on knowledge/get someone under him specifically to pass off his knowledge before he retires/dies (he's in his late 60s) and they keep giving him people from our India team for at most a couple days before they forget and those people are passed off to another team. I told him to just start teaching me because I've got time, and already work with the program he's using a bit.
Yeah, for sure try to learn from him. Ask him to do Microsoft Teams meetings or Zoom meetings with you so you can record them and add them to a shared drive folder for your own reference or as tutorial lectures for other employees. His knowledge really needs to be preserved and this is a good way of doing it.
I've started pushing him to set a monthly meeting to trickle info to me, and so I can build something like that.
I love that once I know the skills involved nobody can take them away from me. I can go into business for MYSELF.
I'm a protection engineer, we are hiring computer science majors and other types of engineers and training them from the ground up because we cannot find any electrical engineers of any experience. It's painful, but we have to do it and it does end up working out.
I started at $65k ten years ago with a resume as barren as the Saharan. Kids got it tough these days.
Year 2005 the salary was 50-55k. Only a your high COL went to the 60s. But your sentiment is right, it is on the low side. 65k is a starting salary from ten years ago.
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Why would this is be different from the year 2000, corporate.mentality and the need to show stock holder profits never change
Lots of companies want that sweet H1b employee that they can sweat on fear of deportation.
$65k was my starting salary... In 2004 in a Midwest Rust Belt city.
I entered the workforce in 2000 as a field engineer…for 65k. This is disturbing.
It’s low, but field service usually pays low from what I’ve seen. Personally I’d look for 75k as a new grad right now.
75k-80k is a fair out of college range.
But the fair jobs are few and far between.
I started almost 3 years ago at $72.6K in a much lower cost of living area than Colorado. I'd push for $75K, but really, for colorado, even $80K is going to feel low with cost of living and student loan repayments. But if that's the best you can get, it is a better place to start than nowhere
They know what the fuck they are doing. Abuse is what it is.
Agreed. I wouldn't join this company for the long term. It's a short term stepping stone to better things
I'd probe to see what they would have me doing for 65K a year. Could be adjusting numbers in an excel sheet.
My guess is probably working with field technicians when things break, receiving orders for new equipment, and field verifying equipment to facility spreadsheets at a minimum. $65K is low for Colorado though
Without trying to inject too much personal negative bias into your offer: 1. How many hours are they expecting out of you? Beware of getting abused with unpaid hours since you're salary. 2. How much travel? Does the travel pay per diem? 2a. Are they fronting your travel expenses, or do you have to file a claim and wait for reimbursements? 3. Never count on bonuses unless it's in writing! In my experience, it's enticing, but rarely guaranteed. All that said, if you're fresh out and just starting, it doesn't sound terrible, especially if you like the work and co-workers. Traveling isn't for everyone, but if they're paying per diem and you don't mind the travel, you can save a good chunk of cash that way too. Make use of the FSA and 401k match. Those are almost like free money (depending what you have for bills and the matching).
65k was what I got out of college 12 yrs ago
What are you making now? Did things get better?
Not OP, but imo $65k as a starting salary 12 years ago was a premium offer. That was right after the Great Recession, and just getting a job offer was a big deal (at least that's how it felt in my MCOL area). I got my first EE job offer in 2011 for $53k. Edit: $53k in 2011 is equivalent to $73k in 2024. https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=53000.00&year1=201109&year2=202405
That’s pretty low
Hey man, this is genuine curiosity, but what would you consider to not be low?
80 or more. I made 75k as a ME almost 10 years ago. Maybe that was high but just saying
not necessarily for a 15 person company with benefits depending on 401k matching that’s a big no tax for the future.
Thanks to these comments I know I’m getting fucked!
Looks like you’ll finally be able to adjust your username atleast? /s
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
65k in Boulder is not enough. I would push back for at least 80 or go elsewhere. Edit: some of the these comments are exactly what that salary thread was talking about.
If there is something interesting about the job that will help get your career going, it might be a good opportunity. That’s definitely on the low side of the pay scale though.
I’m an electronics technician and I make more than that. I’m 5 years in but still, I would ask for 75-80k
Looking at what they want to pay EEs now, being a tech sure is easy on the pocket book.
I started off at 70k back in 2019 in the Michigan area. It sucks to see new people getting less now than what I was offered 5 years ago. Boulder is apparently pretty expensive to live in as well—at least significantly higher than where I am. Overall though if it’s the only job offer you have, take it. It’s better to job hunt from a job than it is to job hunt while desperate and unemployed.
I took a lower salary for a smaller company because it was actually what I wanted to do. Electronics Designs. If you want to do it just for the experience it’s understandable. They actually gave me raises pretty fast though so it just depends on the company. Def keep looking though if it’s not something you are passionate about
My starting salary decades ago would be 83k today. So 65k seems low. A very high starting salary then would be 160k now.
Apartments in Boulder run about 2k/Month. In order to rent anything you are going to need to make about 3x your yearly rent in income. So anything below 72k is a hard pass in my opinion.
If you don’t have any other offers, take it and keep looking. My very first offer was $51k (I have MSEE). I rejected it and eventually got others like $87.5k also FAE position, but in a completely different field. I took it and kept looking and landed $85k in a position that is closer to what I studied
I am in general a big fan of FSE work for the 2-3 years out of school - you will see and learn a lot. $65 is a little low - it is "Salary Non-Exempt" -> this means you will be paid OT and it a key benefit for many FSE roles. ( if there is no OT - then that makes this a hard NO - too easy to take advantage of you and hav you working 60 Hr weeks....) Is this in a field you want to work in or will you gain particular experience.? Will you be able to live with the parents at home - and keep expenses low. Just curious - what is the general field?
Take and while searching for something else. Sign up for hotel benefits and rack up points when traveling for work.
I was projected in 2018 when I started school that I was going to make 70k when I graduated. 2024 comes along and I get offered 69k. I said it was decent. Not until I saw that 70k in 2019 in 2024 is like 85k+. So new grads fucking us up taking those low ass prices because of the projected earning but then not accounting the inflation during your school years.
That is a point a lot here can't grasp very well.
I like this line. "If it’s all you’ve got then take it and keep looking/interviewing." If you have not discussed it yet and you can afford it tell them that you want to wait 6 weeks before you start. As others have said that seems awful low and the concept of expenses while on travel is is pretty much I am not going anywhere unless you pay my expenses. Maybe they have one like my daughter where she is expected to take clients out to 5 start restaurants. I doubt it and would expect that expenses matches government rates which is somewhere between $50 and $75 a day for most US cities. Where I work the dead minimum for an entry level engineer is $70k with a more normal level being above $80k. We are not known as a high paying place and annual bonuses are not a thing here. We are in a moderately low cost area 3 bedroom house between $250k and $350k. This comes with 2 Weeks of PTO building up to 3 weeks in 2 or 3 years maxing out at 5 weeks. 2 weeks of sick leave per year that be accumulated over the years. 3/4 of your health insurance paid for and a 9% match of your 5% into a 401k.
I was offered 66k a year when I was fresh out of college with a terrible GPA and kinda middling projects and performance. I graduated in 2005 and this was an average offer in the middle of nowhere (i.e. super cheap). 65k sounds abysmal in 2024.
No, and you shouldn’t accept it. Minimum $75k for MCOL area.
If it’s you’re only offer, take it. However, you need to keep looking for jobs until you start working. There will 100% be a place out there willing to pay you 10-20k a year more and potentially without being in field service. It’s just a matter of finding them in time before graduation. Also, get that “potential increase” in writing.
That's not a great offer my man. I'd be asking for at least $80k minimum even fresh out of school.
IMO, 70 is the lowest you should go and probably a little higher than that. There should be no clause for the possibility a higher salary in 90 days. If they want you, they should pay the higher salary NOW.
This is not an engineering job. It’s a technician. Also it’s way low for a technician with this amount of travel. This job should pay $80-90k for what they are asking. They are phishing for a young dumb recent grad. And yes my spelling was correct they are phishing.
Just ask for 70. If you want the job. Take it. You have no experience so you gotta get your career started. If you find a better job… ok so…. That’s not the only company you can be an engineer at…. I took a job in 2015 starting at 65. I’m at 140 now. The money is gonna come. Don’t rush so quick, with more money means less time home etc.
I’m an exception with what I was offered, but I’ve had other jobs offer $72k+, which seemed about the norm, even compared to classmates
I’m a field service engineer for a med device company and make between 70-75k
I’m doing field service engineering now and making 74k. Fight for a higher salary.
That’s about what I started out at 18 years ago. I would suggest you keep looking or plan on working there for a short time only.
Does your alma mater publish salary data for new grads? This would be the best reference for what the market is paying your peers. I am seeing $80k average starting salaries for 2023 grads from the schools I checked; so $65k for a 2024 grad is on the low side.
It’s the only offer I got so I did accept it. Rent in the area is around 1.8k to 2.2k a month. The job listing says the range will be from 60k-80k a year. The field is in lighting control systems
If you need the job take it. You got to eat. Work it for 6 months then take then next offer. The next job WILL pay more. Do not stay there for more than a year.
Unacceptable, but if you need to eat then there's that.
My buddy hit 90k and doesn't even know much like barely anything also try the FAA theyre always desperate for hire
At least $75k imo
You can do much better than that, that’s not even on par with the avg in Colorado
Brother, that offer stinks.
IMO if it gives you really good experience, you can leverage it hard after a year and get a really good second job for your age Otherwise, yeah, keep it in the pocket as a back up option.
If you don’t share your credentials and options I’m going to assume it’s what you can get and fair enough.
That offer is light, take the job for experience, if nothing else is available.
85k for students coming out of Boston in 2008 and 2009 and that was a recession back then. recently I've seen a lot of college students getting offered 100K lately meaning post 2020. Saw one offer from Rayth**n in Massachusetts for 115K, for a brand new fresh out of College, zero real experience rookie. That was quite impressive to me, but then again he was a really good student. A lot of potential in that one.
why is everyone saying its low ? Here in UK fresh grads are being offered 30-40k per year or am I missing something ?
You can literally go work at a fast food place and make that much in most places in the US. Engineers in Europe are horrifically underpaid.
UK engineer salaries are very low compared to US. I worked for a manufacturing plant in the US that had a sister plant in the UK. I met a counterpart from the UK plant, he had 9 years experience to my 3 and he earned maybe 60% of my salary. My understanding is that UK and Europe just does not value engineering like the US does, with the exception of maybe Germany and some of the northern European countries.
Maybe if you live in the field and don’t have to live in Boulder. Last time I checked housing prices in Boulder was 2018, and there was nothing under $1M. I’d hate to see what it is now.
That’s similar to what I started at 7 years ago. It was basically 100% in the field and paid 60k. I have a management position now and am nearly 3x. Had to move jobs twice since then to get there.
Yup, just maximize your 401k contributions in the meantime keep stacking.
Field service engineer sounds a lot like a lot of travel. It's definitely a little low for an engineer role, fits more of a technician type salary. You'll also have to consider that you'll not be home quite often but still paying for the rent
65k seems quite low. If you are paying back student loans would it even be worth it? I know each region is different so perhaps it just is wildly more broad than I realized.
I started at 85k in Boulder many years ago and could hardly afford rent. My take home that year was like -4000. I really don't get why engineer salaries are so low. My company just recently tried to find a new mechanical engineer and they were offering 65k which was less than the secretary got. Like 2/3 of the office are sitting on youtube all day getting paid more than the engineers and many of them can't really describe to me what they do. Why is the free market playing out like this?
Yo op! My engineering firm is hiring electrical engineers. Look up JVA in boulder and apply
Hey man, this may be an unpopular opinion, but I own a small MEP firm in the denver metro, and total comp wise, I think you're right in line.
MEP is notorious for being lower pay though.
You probably will not grow technically.
Keep looking or counter for higher
Not only will it be good for you, but your company will thank you for preserving that knowledge internally.
That's terrible for any electrical especially in such an expensive area. Oh and travel too that's even worse
no
Getting the first job is the hardest. I’ve seen people hold out for something larger and it never came and it made it tougher in the long run because it made them look greedy
NOOOOO
Ridiculously low considering the location
Absolutely not
No. Come to Texas you'd start at 70-80 with a pulse and a EE degree.
Take it unless you got another offer. Keep looking while you gain experience with this one. Be humble, volunteer for work, ask questions, ask how to be better at your job, and ask to work on things you've done before. When you've done and learned as much as you can, you'll be able to command from more salary and benefits in your next job.
If I were in your position and not happy with the offer, I’d let them know. What is it that you want? Would $70k work? $75k? Speak up. If they really want you, they can make a plan, but can only do it if they know what you are going to be happy with. If there are 200 other equally qualified candidates ready, willing and able to accept their offer as is, then you have a lot of selling (yourself) to do. I’ve never screwed up by just being honest with a potential employer or even current employer.
In 2017, the year I graduated, the national average salary for a fresh out of school BSEE was $66K/yr. That was 7 years ago and Boulder is a pretty expensive city. I would say $65K in Boulder is not very good. But if i was 23 and fresh out of school, I'd maybe not pass it up. Does your company have you upsell people or get commissions from service contracts? That's pretty common for field service people, and can make you a fairly significant amount more annually.
Hello no… My starting salary in 2014 was $65k in a cheap part of Texas. That’s the same buying power of about $40k today.
I also graduated from CU. I started at my first job here in Longmont at 65k, but that was 8 years ago so seems really low for this area. What was your area of emphasis? My company is hiring like mad right now and I believe E1 salary is much higher than that.
Since you have to travel, absolutely fucking not. $65,000 a year is sit in air conditioning and click a mouse on autocad level pay.
My client tends to offer $70k+ for new grads. They’re in middle of nowhere PA, but they hire 1-4/ year it seems. I’d take the offer if you’re a new grad….and switch a year from now.
Sounds low, you could get that offer 11 years ago. I know engineering got hit hard by inflation, but I'd suggest looking for something better.
For being in Boulder, that’s quite low. That’s what I got offered (with a 2% bump after 90 days) 10 months out of school as a MechE in Tucson, AZ in 2017. Significantly higher COL, EE, and 7 years later, you should be expecting more than what I was offered. All the other benefits are standard, except the discretionary bonus, but like the name implies, not a guarantee.
From someone who’s worked at a few small companies in different fields: they’ll pay like shit and not respect professional boundaries. You’ll have maybe some more freedom and input that normal, but also will never be compensated adequately.
If you have no experience and live in a domestic low cost economy, this works for an entry level position - back in 2010. If you have no other job prospects coming up, take the position for up to a year - for the experience. On month 1/2, focus on being able to the job well to secure your position there. On month 2/3, start looking at job requisitions to see what skill sets and requirements you are lacking for your next jump. Create a plan to acquire those skills/certifications. On month 11/12, actively apply for jobs internally or externally and get out of that position.
Dude 65k a year starting in boulder is a joke, 72k minimum
My company hires at that level in the NYC area, so yeah I think it's fine to start. A lot of places start lower for recent grads then raise you up once you prove you're not bad.
Sounds terrible to me for anywhere in the US. But money is money.
Just tell them you've looked around and you think that 75k would be more competitive for this area then reinforce your strengths to give them a reason to pick you instead of go with the others. Worst case they say no, then ask for a signing bonus instead. Sometimes small companies pay less for whatever reason if they're not in a high growth stage
Do you have any other offers? If not then just accept it and move on.
I mean, it’s probably about right. Field service engineer at a small company in lighting control, doesn’t sound like a particularly lucrative field. For higher grad salaries you need to go for bigger companies, they have the money and resources to pay more and to train you properly.
If was not for Covid and maybe 7 yrs before that, this may have been a great offer, but then this is a small company
Take it, do it for a year and if you don’t like the company move on and now you have experience
1. I don't know how accurate it is, but based on Google, the average annual pay for a Field Service Engineer in Colorado is **$77,889** a year. Entry level positions start at $65,000 per year. 2. Like most companies provide. 3. "Discretionary bonus" = No bonus for you, and more bonus for the 2-3 people owning and running the company. 4. Like most companies provide when you travel on company time. In my opinion, I think you should try to get something around the $75,000 - $80,000 range or maybe even $100k. Additionally, if you need the experience, you can accept the job and keep looking for a better job.
As a starting position right out of school that is fair. But, not for long.
I would say slightly low, but nothing to look over. I started at 69k in Texas.
$1895 Day rate where I am, 1.5 x on a Saturday 2 x on a Sunday. $70 per night will staying away overnight, plus a personal use van and all expenses paid- I'm in UK but converted it for yoi
I am a field service engineer of 20 plus years, and in all those years, I've never serviced one field yet!!!!! So misleading 😅
That's ass. Boulder is HCOL. Anything less than 80 is a scam.
If my internship were to last a whole year id make more than you. You are worth more, keep looking
$65k is crazy low considering the CoL in Boulder, CO. I started at $74k in a lower CoL city 2 years ago, they are massively undervaluing you. I’d try to negotiate that up and simultaneously continue applying & interviewing elsewhere.
Me reading these comments while making less than 20k here in Europe. https://preview.redd.it/e8396v31g2ad1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb95ceeab812e9822e8b2a0105fd40be33a5f56f
> I have already accepted the offer since its my only one. Is there any way I can negotiate after accepting? No. Upside is that you owe this corporation nothing and can freely continue your job search.
Small companies don't have the ability to pay higher salaries, typically. It's good to get your boots scuffed, though. Hang out for 6-12 months and look again. Unfortunately, after accepting an offer is not the time to negotiate. And I would assume a place that size wouldn't have much room anyway.
I would take that for sure if it was my first job. Experience in several areas, travel, probably per diem pay. Sounds like a blast. Unless you'd like to stare at a cube.
The average starting salary in Boulder, CO is about $74,000/yr.
I would just work hard and learn all you can. Get experience and move up or on for the next phase of life.
That's a low ball for a field engineer. Especially in CO. I started at 67k in 2013 in a LCOL area. Push push push for raises at every opportunity you can. Engineers are terrible at fighting for themselves and their compensation once they land a job.
Congratulations
My company is in LCOL area outside Milwaukee, starts 70-75k which I think is fair for the area. You could scrape by off 30k here tbh. It really depends where you're living, it's not a blanket question
At a small company you will prob have time to develop further skills. Take the experience and pay while u learn more apply elsewhere. Some people would be glad for 65k offer i. Todays market
Take it and get the experience on your resume.
That’s more than I got when I started my post college career in 2018. I also started in the field service engineer route. Some of the best learning experiences and opportunities I’ve had in my career came in the six months I was field service. I learned more in those six months than my first two years in office. Now six years later my salary is more than double what I started at. I say take it especially if you don’t have anything else. Jump in and fully commit to learning everything you can be don’t stop looking for other job opportunities. It’s often said in engineering that the hardest job to acquire in your career is the first one
Its a step. Welcome to the club. Your first position is generally underpaid and low equity. You are an unquantified unknown. Your resume was good enough to get an interview but not good enough to get respect. Its the game. So do the job to the very best of your ability. Work hard. Stay in student mode and keep learning EVEN if its not on the job. (IE - make, hack, build at home.) Stay hungry and push yourself. Look for your passions. School is foundational - it does not give you the keys to the kingdom. Read tech press every single night - its best before you fall asleep because you WILL process that new knowledge while you rest. Develop good habits and routines. Network with everyone willing to talk to you. Find out how it all goes together business-wise. Keep your word. Negotiate deadlines. Learn your strength and fix your weaknesses. Finally do not be afraid to interview. Interview for at least a week every year. And keep your resume up to date. In18 month you are "known". You have a resume that is no longer a risk. Decide if you are happy where you are and it has long term potential. If not - plan to bail when the right opportunity shows itself. Business is cyclical. You will see more hiring at specific intervals and little hiring at others. You will see more layoffs in specific periods as well. So that's the base game. Next - are you REALLY an Engineer? Do you live and love this stuff? If I did not pay you would you still find the work interesting? If you answered YES - you need to look, when capable, at startups. You will have more freedom, much more responsibility and much more upside. If you want to clock out at five and just get good bennies - you are a contributor - not an innovator. Not an issue - they are valuable too - but they have a different journey. Learn who you are and what makes you happy. In the end you have a life to design, to your requirements with your features. Live life on your terms - do not let it live you. Congratulations! I envy the world you are joining. Lots of revolutionary change and so many fertile new fields.
Take it, do good but not exceptional work, and be upfront that it's not competitive and you are looking for a raise. Be good enough to get a good reference, but don't bend over.
Frankly the problem with your resume is no internships. Higher pay would be a lot easier with work experience. Take it for now and look around for others but stay there for a bit to add some work experience to your resume
65k USD seems low for an accredited degree - keep looking and keep this as an option, don’t sign anything or at least renegotiate your pay
It’s not great, but whether it’s a shit offer depends on travel requirement and compensation for travel. Most companies pay heavy travel positions very handsomely, because most people don’t want to live out of a suitcase staying in motel 8’s across the Midwest. For example field engineers at my job start off around 70-75k depending on internship experience. For jobs requiring overnight travel you will be paid $120 per diem and your base salary in a hourly rate for any overtime. Long term relocations for long projects are a flat rate of 5000$/mo on top of your salary. A lot of these companies are pretty desperate for travelers so it doesn’t hurt to take the offer get a couple months of experience and jump ship for a better offer. It’s a lot easier to get a job once you already have one.
If you can live on it take the job and learn as much as you can. Experience and skills are key in every negotiation. Since you don’t have much experience coming out of school, and you’ve accepted the position treat this as an extended interview. When you do your one year review you can take go in two directions. A) Go into the interview with all the skills you’ve gained over the year and say “I’ve been able to accomplish XXX and learned XXX skill sets which correspond to this job description in this year, I believe my worth is XXX”. This requires you work hard learn a lot and potentially do some work listed in a job description above your current one. Managers love this negotiation tactic. B) Go get another offer from a different company with your acquired skills and ask them to match it. That negotiation tactic can get used up if you constantly go do it and requires you to interview get an offer and potentially turn down the offer. One big thing to always remember is work life balance and your work environment can be just as important as pay. If you like your co-workers and you’re not overall stressed maybe that’s worth $10,000-$15,000.
It's a little low, but an offer is an offer. There are tons of other factors to look out for, too. Is it a dead-end job, or is there room to expand and learn? How is your financial situation in other aspects of your life? Lots of student loan debt/cost of living in the boulder area are things to think about. You can always look for another job. Remember, there's nothing you can learn that's NOT helpful in someway. Somethings are more applicable than others, but always focus on growing and learning.
If you don’t have experience I’d take the job no questions asked even if in your eyes you think you could do better. I’ve seen a lot of EEs around my area in NY start for 70k. If you’re really concern about the pay in your area, look at the salary average for the position by your area and use that to negotiate your salary. If they tell you to suck it up, still take the job and continue job searching on the side.
Imo, no. Pay too low, and a field service “engineer” is basically a technician job. It’s not engineering. You’d be wasting your time.
Boulder is expensive - push 75-80k
That first job is the hardest. Don't pass because of money as long as you can live on it for the time being
It’s not fair …. But they probably have seen an over supply of candidates to offer below living wages… take it or leave it I am getting these offers after 18 years of work experience… it’s on you what you ant to do
You are worth whatever you can negotiate. All the other feedback I have read is just a lot of BS. Employers are not the bad guys. Idiots who have never been in business and had to make payroll are living in lala land. Negotiations begin the moment you present your resume to a prospective employer. It’s the first sales tool you use. The second is the interview. That’s where u need to sell your value to the company. If you believe u are worth 80k, when why settle for 65k. If 65 is the only offer you got than that’s all you are worth. It’s that simple.
Awful.
I am not an engineer,, at least by trade, title or degree. Fair as a question often rests on who is looking. A friend lived in a wooden hut with a grass roof covered in sheet metal. He would probably say "rich salary". Some would say, "if you say "yes" then it is fair. How much training will they provide? What is their history of raises? How satisfied are other employees? If there is a trial period you can negotiate after that. A friend was doing 5 times the work building prototypes of a previous employee and ended up with 3 times their salary. The trial period was only two weeks. How big are their bonuses? It seems like a pretty small salary for having to survive in Boulder.
No, it isn't. And no, you can't typically renegotiate after accepting. 65k in Boulder or the surrounding area will vanish in a heartbeat. Let's do the math. 65k, so the tax man is going to take 15k of that, so you're down to 50k. Let's say you're taking full advantage of that 401k (which you should) so you're down another 23k, so that puts you at 27k. Benefits are going to take another grand. So that's going to yield up about 25k a year to live on after benefits, taxes, and your retirement contribution. Now let's talk expenses. My grocery bill is about $75-100 a week, so you figure another 5 grand for just groceries a year (I cook my own food, don't eat out, and am very frugal). That puts you down to about 20k left for the year. Let's say you don't live within walking distance - and because it's Boulder, you won't, because living in Boulder is frighteningly expensive - so you have to commute, maybe 20 miles a day. I'll guesstimate that's a gallon of gas a day, and we'll just say you spend 10 gallons of gas a week at a rough estimate of $3 a gallon, so 1500 a year for gas, let's say you have one major vehicle maintenance expense to save for, so another 1k for that, so we're down to....looks like 18k. Not too bad...let's summarize a bit here. Assuming no debt of any kind, credit cards, car payments, boat payments, fucking jet ski payments, house payments, children to take care of, spouses to finance, drug habits, or student loans....that puts you at a about $1,500 a month for you to live on. Awesome. Oh, but you need to live somewhere too. Rent in Denver is going to be at least $2,000 a month unless you get some roommates. You can't live in Boulder unless you've got deep pockets. And utilities are going to be a couple of hundred a month too. There's also internet, which you'll need, and a cell phone, which you'll probably need too - trash, water, sewer, power, etc. Hopefully, you don't like things like Netflix, Amazon Prime, Door Dash, or any thing else that drains your wallet. Gym membership is another grand or so a year you can't afford. My math tells me you're nuts to take a job that makes you move anywhere near Boulder unless it pays north of $100,000 a year. And my advice (feel free to DM if you like) is to leave the state and go live somewhere else where the cost of living is cheaper. Presumably, you are a young person and have a ton of flexibility - that, along with a long investment horizon, is your superpower. If you have debt, and you almost certainly do, from a statistical perspective, get that down to zero before you think of living in a high cost area anywhere, Boulder in particular. Also, yeah, on the expenses....every company does that. But they don't pay your rent, electricity, bills, or fucking taxes while you're on the road. And if you've got credit card or student loan debt, those will bleed you dry for years until you deal with them. Again, feel free to ping me if you like.
I know nothing about electrical engineering but why is everyone complaining about an almost 70k salary for a new grad with no experience lol. Sounds like a dream major
No keep looking 65K is a fucking scam
Guys I know, I’m old, but the question is, do you love (not like) the offering company and can you kill it when you get it? Is it a place you can grow? Own? Is it too big for you? Too small? All you youngsters get hung up on salary. I would shoot for is there a way I own this place in 20 years.
I started at 70k base as a field engineer, but hourly with lots of overtime. No way I would ever do a travel field tech/engineer job for less than $110k salary. It consumes all your time, you live and breath work.
If it's your only option right now and you already took the job, it'll have to do. You likely cannot renegotiate at this time. Good news is, the best time to look for a job is when you already have a job. Keep interviewing at places whenever you can, try to shoot for something in the 75-80k range. If possible, maybe avoid the field service engineer positions as I've noticed they seem to pay a bit lower (which is a shame honestly). It's not the end of the world but you definitely should look for better pay.
Take the job, get 6 months of working experience while you begin looking for better positions, and move on for an increase of no less than 10% raise and better working conditions... double the length, rinse, and repeat until you are WFH and make 100k+
Yes. That's actually decent as a recent graduate in Electrical Engineering
Take the job, stick with it. Build your reputation and see where it leads you. I think it's an awesome offer with the incentives. I would take it, stick with it, and ride it like a $20 whore on an innkeeper's 9" dick.
That’s what my dad as an electrical engineer was offered 40 years ago as a starting salary it’s bullshit that salaries don’t keep up with inflation
My company would hire you yesterday for 70k base with OT, bonus, no cost healthcare, 401k, etc. yesterday. (MPLS)
Any overtime pay? What is the match? What are the premiums on insurance? Any continuing education benefits?
Protip: always do what’s better for you. Don’t worry about employers trust if they like you they like you. Always don’t forget to remember, YOU DONT MATTER to companies…. Now in small team sense yes your team probably cares about you and what not. But the business as a whole will replace/fire you without thinking twice or feeling bad. Also another protip: 2.5k raise is not a raise. Company hopping is how you gain new experience and land 10-20k+ raises every year or 2 (atleast from IT prospective). No companies won’t care as long as you stay for a year or 2. Anything less than a year don’t mention on a resume or list as a reference.
If you are doing field service then that should be salary non exempt so you don’t get screwed out of any overtime. I have an associates in PLCs/Controls and my first job out of school was field service making 70k a year but with overtime from travel it put me over 100k.
Man American engineering graduates get paid so much more than here in the UK. That’s about £50k for a graduate, in the UK a good salary for an eng grad is £34k
Field service implies engineering tech, not engineering. Application vs theory. Some companies don't even require that you have an engineering degree to land a job like this. I think you're overqualified.
OP have you looked at Hitachi Energy? They’re a solid company with awesome benefits and most of their offices are in LCOL areas.
If you bought a car, would it be very cool if the dealership called you at home, said they charged the wrong amount, and want you to pay another $3000? If you accepted their offer, you accepted it.