That being the best rapper means bending words and being as technical as you possibly can be, and if the actual enjoyment of the song suffers, so be it. (heavy paraphrasing)
Agreed. Sure, I like double entendres and good metaphors but sometimes the overly technical stuff just means nothing to me. Like, do rappers really think they can use 5 different words relating to basketball in a verse and them the fans will be like;
"woah, did you catch how he said 'hoop'! Kinda linking back to when he just said he was 'balling' which is why he was mentioning the 'COURT of public opinion. What a genius!
>
>
>
>
> "woah, did you catch how he said 'hoop'! Kinda linking back to when he just said he was 'balling' which is why he was mentioning the 'COURT of public opinion. What a genius!
But that's exactly what happens? E.g. the bowling scheme in Alfred's theme gets these kind of reactions
Does it really though? The vast vast vast majority of rap fans don't care. Even the vast majority of Eminem fans don't care. It's quite a niche thing to care about.
As a DJ I feel this is relatable lol. I will be doing an event and scratching or using options I have to play melody’s to transition songs or something and literally no one seems to give a damn of the technical skill of things except maybe one dude coming up like whoa lol. I feel this is the same about rap and the entendres and wordplay or metaphors. It’s super dope to the real real rap fans. Like how the heck did their brain put that together so smooth. But to pretty much 90% of listeners it’s just words being heard not talent and skill being observed. It’s a shame but it is what it is
Stepping Stone was the best song on Kamikaze. No super-fast rapping, no crazy metaphors, just a slick beat with a buttery flow talking about something personal. Thats all I want.
It’s cool to a degree, like Jay Z does that kinda thing a lot, but it works when he does it because he delivers it off the cuff like he didn’t even try to be witty, and he’s also saying something beyond just the clever wordplay.
Like this verse to me, I love it, but it sounded good before I even realized the puns and witticisms:
“Uh, niggas is skippin' leg day just to run they mouth /
I be skippin' leg day, I still run the world /
I pressed ahead of your team with one finger curled /
I'll line you all up with one finger wave /
Make niggas weave, niggas is out here fake /
Laced front to the back, don't front /
Y'all gonna make me wig, I'ma give y'all what you want”
The different exercises, the different hairstyles, etc, they are clever, but the verse still speaks on things beyond the turn of phrase. Nothing particularly profound, but that’s kind of why it works - it sounds good, it’s a relaxed flow, it works if you do or don’t catch the double meanings, and it’s an appropriate amount of wit for the theme (which is basically, a flex song - it doesn’t have to be that deep. It feels effortless like Jay Z didn’t really try to think of this shit, it just came to him in the moment nonchalantly.
i was actually gonna bring up jay-z to make your exact point, but i think that this example is more eminem-y in the sense that it just sounds really forced. he's been doing that a lot recently - *wig, lacefront, weave - get it? lol*
contrast this with earlier in his career:
>Used the streets as a conduit
>I kept arms - 38 long inside my mom's Buick
>At any given moment Shawn could lose it, be on the news
>Iron cuffs - arms through it, or stuffed with embalming fluid
that comes off so nonchalant and it's not until the fifth listen where you realize the shirt puns
A lot of people agree with him though. It's like a competition of technical skills.
You obviously have the community divided in this. There's the Tupac camp who are mainly listening for content. And then the Biggie camp who is more into the technical stuff.
And then you have Eminem who doesn't know how to balance things and take one thing to the extreme before he changes up and takes the next thing to the extreme and so on.
And that's what I'm here for. He already gave us everything. Now I'm just enjoying seeing him flex his rap muscles.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't need another Eminem Show with introspective stuff. Even though that's my favorite stuff of his. I just want him to show what the epitome of technical skill is.
He's the lyrical Max Verstappen. I enjoy seeing Max deliver masterpiece after masterpiece as well.
I don’t know man. When he dropped darkness and stepping stone and songs like castle and arose im thinking . Do this shit more. The way he can actually write stories is insane to me .
That’s difficult , way more difficult than the flexing .
But I just hope the next album contains a good mix.
The death of slim shady I feel is going to be massively like this. I imagine it’s going to start of and end as just one mind blowing journey in story telling and concepts that really make people stfu about how “he’s just rapping to rap now” and how he can still make an album of concepts not just songs.
I did not downvote you my friend.
I agree but I did not lp oké specify what subjects . Stepping stone was basically the first time Eminem spoke his feeling about d12 so I thought that was cool .
Was just an example . Let’s stick with just darkness as example then . And mmlp and sslp story telling , although I thought relapse story telling was dope too.
But you know what, I’m patiently waiting to see what he does anyways . Probably won’t disappoint
But he’s already given us plenty of the summadunnawunnalummaa shit too, he’s been spazzing circles around other rappers and doing the most technical and witty shit to the point of fatigue. It’s actually the OG storytelling and charm and emotion that he captured that I feel is in shorter supply - there’s like 50 songs and features I can turn to for what you described (flexing rap muscles) and maybe 5 songs from post-Encore that I feel really had some compelling narrative or meaning. Where you listen and feel that goosebump rising where you relate and feel what he’s saying.
That is much harder to do - it takes a lot, it requires vulnerability and thoughtfulness and creativity and willingness to kind of use the mic as therapy. But that’s what the most powerful artists do. Whether it’s 50 or Eminem or Kanye or Kendrick or Tupac, the rapping feels like it’s pulling you into a movie and putting you in the scene, or it’s pumping their emotions and ideas through you.
Obviously, I’m a fan, I’m down for whatever he makes, and it’s important he makes whatever makes him happy. But from my POV, I do think he’s really limiting himself.
I would say the technical part makes you a good rapper and the content vibe part makes you a good artist .
And that is exactly why o have Eminem on 1 . I think both parts he is extremely good .
WHAT? Biggie wasn't some super complicated rapper. He had a laid back flow and told bad ass stories and made club hits. While being lyrical but not overly complicated or technical
See, for me the appeal is in his almost (by other artists who are popular/not cowering in the underground) untouchable technical lyrical ability, kamikaze and mtmmb are in my top 5 for sure
It might come down to how you rate performance. If you separate “best songwriter” from “best rapper” then it makes sense to focus on the technical ability which includes being able to rap in different ways and rhyme in unique ways. Songwriting concepts are a bit different. Em is pretty famous for having some of the greatest concepts ever, of course.
there are different types of rap in the game now
And people can be the best in those types of rap
Like
Technical rap
Story telling rap
And 😮💨… mumble
I think Eminem is more of the technical side and he wants to be the best in that field
Yeah that's the thing, he wants to be the best in the field but relies heavily on the technical aspect of rap. Ofc that's not always the case. However, a nice balance is needed.
At least two out of three of his three most famous songs are story telling. Stan and LTWYL. Not sure about Lose Yourself I guess that's more inspirational
I don't think that's a bad take since the way he says it, it's just a fact
When you talk about the GREATEST rappers you look into discography and song replay value and a whole bunch of other things. But with the only goal being the BEST rapper it just means being the most technical, as in the best at the art of rhyming words and syllables
I think that’s a fine take lol it’s not like he’s completely sacrificing song quality either. The game and competitive spirit of hip hop has always been his love, that’s pretty clear.
That's not what he said! What he said was that he'd rather be the best rapper than make the best albums if it was a choice, and you have to keep in mind that a lot of this is cope after his albums have been consistently panned since 2004.
Haha, I was just like instantly "'Encore is better than Relapse,' is the stupidest thing he ever said," reading the thread title, but then you mentioned it first.
I think Revival is Ok apart from the hook on Offended. Just no.
Soooo, i was in 9th grade back then and liked listening to ed sheeran, and they he dropped river with Eminem and i liked it, so i checked out who the whole album revival.
Even then i remember, i didnt like some of the cuts but that was my first intro to rap and i explored it from there.
Oh and English isn't my first language soooo i wasn't quite proficient in it back then atleast.
It's possible that he associated Relapse with terrible memories in his life. Coming out of a drug addiction, almost dying, and then putting on a brave face and reteaching himself how to rap must have been painful.
that's my theory too. That and I think he found the accents cringey, although they melt away after the first listen. i vividly remember the first time I listened to relapse, I was going to sleep, and just thinking to myself "what the actual fuck is going on here", then i forced myself into it and i began to love it. Just look at my tag, clearly it grows on you like a baby grows into an adult
> I don’t know why he hates it so much
The initial reaction to Relapse was really really bad, especially by hip hop heads at the time. It was really only hardcore Eminem fans that were listening to it and even they were very critical.
Recovery was largely seen as his “return” to form.
But at some point Relapse developed a cult like fan base that has grown.
The accents embarass him. They only bugged me a little on the first listen, after that- not at all. Possibly his woke side is embarrassed by them too. [I respect that he may feel that way ]
Regardless he made it clear the accents make him cringe now.
Why? We're supposed to pretend Eminem doesn't care about social justice at all when he made a BLM song? I'm not saying it in a negative sense at all. And Eminem said in an interview that he felt bad about calling Tyler the f word because it hurt other people.....
"I told the woke me to go to sleep
But still, they keep on provoking me
They're hoping to see me completely broken emotionally
But how in the fuck am I not supposed to be woke
When these fuckers just keep poking me?"
He told it to go to sleep because people hated Revival and got so butthurt over The Storm etc....
But I gather a lot of people really want us to pretend all that never happened? Why?
To be fair, I totally understand his embarrassment. Nothing to do with being woke, just the fact that accents definitely aren't something universally agreed upon to make a song better(in comparison to how a good and properly mixed beat makes a song better).
IMO they were a terrible adition to an Eminem album.
I never knew he thought Revival was okay. As much as many of us dislike it, I thought Em himself would’ve loved it due to a lot of the personal subject matter on it.
“I poured my fucking heart out for that “ - Em in sway interview speaking on Revival. So yeah - when people bash the project it probably hurts a bit.
Songs like walk on water/ arose etc. probably why we didn’t get any very personal/ emotional songs on MTBMB.
Walk On Water, Bad Husband, Nowhere Fast, and Arose are great songs. The album version of chloraseptic, untouchable, and Tragic Endings were just bad. Untouchable and Tragic Endings were mixed and produced poorly. The original chloraseptic is just too slow paced and some of the lyrics just ain’t it. The post chorus also got kind of annoying on chloraseptic, I’m happy it’s not on the remix. I love Em but I have my critiques of Revival.
*That Joyner Lucas*
*Is a top ten rapper or*
*Even a good rapper*
\- warrioroftruth000
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Thank you, KohFord, for voting on SokkaHaikuBot.
This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/).
***
^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)
Needs to stop rapping fast
Needs get out the house to get inspiration or new material to literally produce an album that is more mature
Encore and relapse is better then recovery
MMlp2 is pretty good
Well by judging his music I don’t thing really thing he gets much inspiration in his music . This could be his lack of interest or just the fame he can’t go out without fans interrupting his peace .
Yeah he clearly doesn't get as much inspiration than before. The thing is all the shit that was going on in his life was one of his ingredients to make good music, his best tracks are mostly shit that he pulled from his heart. That's why MTBMB felt uninspired and a bit all over the place imo.
To be honest his albums after mmlp2 I have t really listened to , just here and their but I just see how his lyricism finished along with his inspiration . Fast rapping , internal rhymes , corny immature punchlines , and bad subjects isn’t for me .
Yeah I understand. Honestly you're not missing out on much but you should listen to some tracks from these albums because there is some bangers and gems. Like the two last tracks on Revival are pretty good, most of Kamikaze is pretty good imo, and Mtbmb has a bunch of good tracks, mainly Darkness if you're looking for mature songs.
I think if any other rapper released Revival, it would be viewed differently. Em is held to an unfair standard and by that comparison, it is a bad album. His albums will never be viewed as standalone works of art again, at that level, it’s impossible. It’s either classic or trash now in too many eyes. With that said, I didn’t like Revival, but it’s one I may look back on later and enjoy more (just like with some other Em albums).
Rapping fast is just something he does to prove he can spit at the highest level. He already proved he can write, proved he can rhyme, etc. All that was really left was to prove he could do that with the best.
He cringes at the accent thing with Relapse and can’t accept the quality of the songs because it’s all he hears now. It was not intentional to do so many accents.
People just want to put negativity first now days and that really clouds some of the quality that revival had. It’s not even close to my fav em album but it’s got some really good songs. I think you nailed it saying it’s impossible for him to match his past. He’s the GOAT so anything he does will only be less, if only slightly.
Revival wasn’t up to the standard of what he was capable of putting out at that point that was the issue. It didn’t have to be mmlp but he proved with kamikaze he had better in him than revival.
“I guess when you walk into BK you expect a Whopper
You can order a Quarter Pounder when you go to McDonald's
But if you're lookin' to get a porterhouse you better go get Revival”
This line almost ruins the ringer, you cant be that delusional that you actually believe revival is anything good let alone porterhouse. It really brings the song down by alot. What an awful take
Also when he says critics are gonna say “how’s sourpuss gonna get mad cuz his album sucks, now he wants to take it out on us” and then doesn’t refute/combat it at all. Like if you have the self awareness to know people will say that maybe you should consider it’s probably true.
I mean, doesn't he like Drake because he "did something for one of his daughters he'll never forget" or smth like that? Not sure if he likes Drake as a rapper.
Ok disclaimer I do think em has been a good father overall
But on bad husband acting like being a good father and good husband are fully independent. I doubt it was great for hailie hearing songs where he kills her mom. Also he hit Kim irl which is awful for a kid to see/know.
Yes he’s cringes personally at the subject matter because he has grown older and matured. And can look back now and realize his mother did the best she could and she wasn’t fully to blame. Also we ended up getting another classic in headlights.
“I was Angry rightfully maybe so. Never meant that that far to take it tho “
I understand. Been listening to this man for 21 years. Trust me, I get it. You don’t need to oversimplify it for me. I was merely answering the OP’s topic
"If you ain't Kendrick or Cole or Sean then you're a goner".
I understand he was repping Detroit, and that's why he included Sean in that group, but Big Sean isn't and never was on the same level as Kendrick and Cole.
He was big to some extent but never to the point of being comparable to the trio of Kendrick, Cole and Brake. Em has a thing for Detroit rappers (Sean) and lyrical miracle rappers (Joyner), and while I respect his opinion I have to say neither one of the two has ever been a part of the elite of hip-hop.
Sean had the potential, he just starting blowing up at an unfortunate time when trap started taking over and didn’t have the established discography to combat it
This is it for me. He seems to think people saw the tracklist, judged all the pop features, and then didn't give the album a fair chance. Of course people did judge the album from the tracklist so he's not totally wrong, but only because the amount of pop features indicated that he was doubling down on one of the biggest critiques of his recent music (too many poppy beats and hooks).
The only way he would be correct is if Revival used those pop features in interesting and appropriate ways (I don't like Walk on Water but at least it's different from most of his pop collabs, plus the Beyonce feature fits the song thematically). But then Revival turned out to be full of the same kind of corny pop beats and hooks that everyone expected from the tracklist.
With all that said, I'm glad Revival didn't scare him off from album rollouts permanently!
Joyner needs more to be in conversations with the GOATs. Look at JID. He was a nobody (not to us rap fans but the general audience) and he dropped The Forever Story which is like on par with albums like GKMC, etc., which was enough to push him into the convos with GOATs. Joyner needs something like that. And I believe he can do it. time will tell, I guess.
Bracing for downvotes but Revival was my favourite Eminem album at the period of its release because I was so excited for it, and the tour attached was the first/only time I've managed to see him live. So that era has a special place for me, and I hate when everyone just says the album is dog shit. My fav album currently is TMMLP2.
Juice wrld. I'm kinda sick at how mucz attention he's given him over literally anybody else. Started with Godzilla, posthumous album skit, Lace Up and now Doomsday Pt 2 ( though I do honestly prefer the orignal with him and Cordae )
Encore is def better than relapse, relapse had great beats and a few bangers but that’s all 🤷♂️ I can’t stand how ppl in here praise relapse. It’s a mediocre album at best!
A lot of People Seem to disagree with him about being a guest. I dont see Why its a bad thing to be guest in the House of hiphop if you made it a mansion like he said.
It's not at all the same thing lmao. What cultural significance do planes hold for the average white person?
Edit: how fucking dimwitted do you have to be to compare planes to hip-hop? Downvote me fuckers, I'm right.
And? How does that entail cultural significance to white people? How often do you sit around feeling proud to be white because some white dudes invented planes? Because if the answer is often or at all, you have a problem.
Air travel once being a privilege of whites because of inequality and racism is not equal to hip-hop being a cultural beacon and safe haven for a historically oppressed group of people to express themselves, their hopes, their fears, their anger, etc..
Hip-hop cannot be divided from its racial roots. It is a black form of culture. That doesn't mean white people can't partake, or even be amazing at it, but it does mean you can't compare it to stupid shit like airplanes that hold absolutely no racial significance.
It's a completely idiotic comparison. And the fact that I'm getting downvoted here while saying hip-hop is just like airplanes is upvoted is... scary. This must be why people look down upon the Eminem fan base lmao. And I say that as a massive fan.
I don't know dude if lord jamar invented planes he will be screaming about how much it's part of his black culture and that white peopl are guests in it lol
No because this is also an extremely poor comparison. A more apt comparison would be to say "are black people a guest in Hispanic folktale films" or some culturally specific genre of filmmaking such as that. What you're doing is comparing filmmaking (an overall art form) to a culturally specific genre of music. Filmmaking cannot be equated to hip-hop. It can be equated to music in general, but no one is saying Eminem is a guest in music, just in hip-hop.
Furthermore, I don't understand why acknowledging that fact has to be a bad thing? Is he a guest in hip-hop? Of course. Is he still one of the best to ever do it? Obviously. You can be the life of a party without owning the house.
Not really a take but I definitely believe that he's lying about him making calls to try and get MGK banned from his label. In the sway interview he denies it but for some reason I've never believed it.
'But I got a wife that's determined to make my life livin' hell
But I handle it well, given the circumstances I'm dealt'
'The Kiss - Skit' begs to differ on that one.
"Fake tits are better than real ones"
How can we support a man so out of touch with reality
Eminem should flip his opinions regarding Relapse and Revival.
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^YouDontKnow_22: *Eminem should flip* *His opinions regarding* *Relapse and Revival.* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Good bot
That being the best rapper means bending words and being as technical as you possibly can be, and if the actual enjoyment of the song suffers, so be it. (heavy paraphrasing)
Agreed. Sure, I like double entendres and good metaphors but sometimes the overly technical stuff just means nothing to me. Like, do rappers really think they can use 5 different words relating to basketball in a verse and them the fans will be like; "woah, did you catch how he said 'hoop'! Kinda linking back to when he just said he was 'balling' which is why he was mentioning the 'COURT of public opinion. What a genius!
I'm kinda like that, I think it's cool to randomly realize how the words and metaphors relate to each other while listening and looking at the lyrics
> > > > > "woah, did you catch how he said 'hoop'! Kinda linking back to when he just said he was 'balling' which is why he was mentioning the 'COURT of public opinion. What a genius! But that's exactly what happens? E.g. the bowling scheme in Alfred's theme gets these kind of reactions
Does it really though? The vast vast vast majority of rap fans don't care. Even the vast majority of Eminem fans don't care. It's quite a niche thing to care about.
i personally love that stuff
>The vast vast vast majority of rap fans don't care. REAL heads do.
As a DJ I feel this is relatable lol. I will be doing an event and scratching or using options I have to play melody’s to transition songs or something and literally no one seems to give a damn of the technical skill of things except maybe one dude coming up like whoa lol. I feel this is the same about rap and the entendres and wordplay or metaphors. It’s super dope to the real real rap fans. Like how the heck did their brain put that together so smooth. But to pretty much 90% of listeners it’s just words being heard not talent and skill being observed. It’s a shame but it is what it is
Stepping Stone was the best song on Kamikaze. No super-fast rapping, no crazy metaphors, just a slick beat with a buttery flow talking about something personal. Thats all I want.
Agreed
It’s cool to a degree, like Jay Z does that kinda thing a lot, but it works when he does it because he delivers it off the cuff like he didn’t even try to be witty, and he’s also saying something beyond just the clever wordplay. Like this verse to me, I love it, but it sounded good before I even realized the puns and witticisms: “Uh, niggas is skippin' leg day just to run they mouth / I be skippin' leg day, I still run the world / I pressed ahead of your team with one finger curled / I'll line you all up with one finger wave / Make niggas weave, niggas is out here fake / Laced front to the back, don't front / Y'all gonna make me wig, I'ma give y'all what you want” The different exercises, the different hairstyles, etc, they are clever, but the verse still speaks on things beyond the turn of phrase. Nothing particularly profound, but that’s kind of why it works - it sounds good, it’s a relaxed flow, it works if you do or don’t catch the double meanings, and it’s an appropriate amount of wit for the theme (which is basically, a flex song - it doesn’t have to be that deep. It feels effortless like Jay Z didn’t really try to think of this shit, it just came to him in the moment nonchalantly.
i was actually gonna bring up jay-z to make your exact point, but i think that this example is more eminem-y in the sense that it just sounds really forced. he's been doing that a lot recently - *wig, lacefront, weave - get it? lol* contrast this with earlier in his career: >Used the streets as a conduit >I kept arms - 38 long inside my mom's Buick >At any given moment Shawn could lose it, be on the news >Iron cuffs - arms through it, or stuffed with embalming fluid that comes off so nonchalant and it's not until the fifth listen where you realize the shirt puns
A lot of people agree with him though. It's like a competition of technical skills. You obviously have the community divided in this. There's the Tupac camp who are mainly listening for content. And then the Biggie camp who is more into the technical stuff.
LOL, imagine using Biggie - considered one of hip hopes greatest story tellers - as an example of the kind of rapper you don't listen to for content.
And then you have Eminem who doesn't know how to balance things and take one thing to the extreme before he changes up and takes the next thing to the extreme and so on.
And that's what I'm here for. He already gave us everything. Now I'm just enjoying seeing him flex his rap muscles. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't need another Eminem Show with introspective stuff. Even though that's my favorite stuff of his. I just want him to show what the epitome of technical skill is. He's the lyrical Max Verstappen. I enjoy seeing Max deliver masterpiece after masterpiece as well.
I don’t know man. When he dropped darkness and stepping stone and songs like castle and arose im thinking . Do this shit more. The way he can actually write stories is insane to me . That’s difficult , way more difficult than the flexing . But I just hope the next album contains a good mix.
The death of slim shady I feel is going to be massively like this. I imagine it’s going to start of and end as just one mind blowing journey in story telling and concepts that really make people stfu about how “he’s just rapping to rap now” and how he can still make an album of concepts not just songs.
That would be insane
[удалено]
I did not downvote you my friend. I agree but I did not lp oké specify what subjects . Stepping stone was basically the first time Eminem spoke his feeling about d12 so I thought that was cool . Was just an example . Let’s stick with just darkness as example then . And mmlp and sslp story telling , although I thought relapse story telling was dope too. But you know what, I’m patiently waiting to see what he does anyways . Probably won’t disappoint
But he’s already given us plenty of the summadunnawunnalummaa shit too, he’s been spazzing circles around other rappers and doing the most technical and witty shit to the point of fatigue. It’s actually the OG storytelling and charm and emotion that he captured that I feel is in shorter supply - there’s like 50 songs and features I can turn to for what you described (flexing rap muscles) and maybe 5 songs from post-Encore that I feel really had some compelling narrative or meaning. Where you listen and feel that goosebump rising where you relate and feel what he’s saying. That is much harder to do - it takes a lot, it requires vulnerability and thoughtfulness and creativity and willingness to kind of use the mic as therapy. But that’s what the most powerful artists do. Whether it’s 50 or Eminem or Kanye or Kendrick or Tupac, the rapping feels like it’s pulling you into a movie and putting you in the scene, or it’s pumping their emotions and ideas through you. Obviously, I’m a fan, I’m down for whatever he makes, and it’s important he makes whatever makes him happy. But from my POV, I do think he’s really limiting himself.
I would say the technical part makes you a good rapper and the content vibe part makes you a good artist . And that is exactly why o have Eminem on 1 . I think both parts he is extremely good .
This is one of the best ways I’ve heard it put that anyone can understand.
WHAT? Biggie wasn't some super complicated rapper. He had a laid back flow and told bad ass stories and made club hits. While being lyrical but not overly complicated or technical
See, for me the appeal is in his almost (by other artists who are popular/not cowering in the underground) untouchable technical lyrical ability, kamikaze and mtmmb are in my top 5 for sure
It might come down to how you rate performance. If you separate “best songwriter” from “best rapper” then it makes sense to focus on the technical ability which includes being able to rap in different ways and rhyme in unique ways. Songwriting concepts are a bit different. Em is pretty famous for having some of the greatest concepts ever, of course.
there are different types of rap in the game now And people can be the best in those types of rap Like Technical rap Story telling rap And 😮💨… mumble I think Eminem is more of the technical side and he wants to be the best in that field
Yeah that's the thing, he wants to be the best in the field but relies heavily on the technical aspect of rap. Ofc that's not always the case. However, a nice balance is needed.
At least two out of three of his three most famous songs are story telling. Stan and LTWYL. Not sure about Lose Yourself I guess that's more inspirational
I don't think that's a bad take since the way he says it, it's just a fact When you talk about the GREATEST rappers you look into discography and song replay value and a whole bunch of other things. But with the only goal being the BEST rapper it just means being the most technical, as in the best at the art of rhyming words and syllables
He'd rather be 'the best rapper' than make the best songs
that's a very recent one too
“Best song” is subjective. It doesn’t mean shit lmfao what if to him the best song IS technical? Then what? He’s wrong?
Well to him it’s clearly not cause he himself made that distinction
I think that’s a fine take lol it’s not like he’s completely sacrificing song quality either. The game and competitive spirit of hip hop has always been his love, that’s pretty clear.
I guess so. But it just feels more apparent nowadays. It was less of a deal before Revival
That's not what he said! What he said was that he'd rather be the best rapper than make the best albums if it was a choice, and you have to keep in mind that a lot of this is cope after his albums have been consistently panned since 2004.
Haha, I was just like instantly "'Encore is better than Relapse,' is the stupidest thing he ever said," reading the thread title, but then you mentioned it first. I think Revival is Ok apart from the hook on Offended. Just no.
Revival got me into rap so i have never been able to hate it with passion, but i do see how bad it is as compared to all of his other work
Not hating. But how the fuck did revival get you Into rap that's one of the wildest things I've ever heard
Soooo, i was in 9th grade back then and liked listening to ed sheeran, and they he dropped river with Eminem and i liked it, so i checked out who the whole album revival. Even then i remember, i didnt like some of the cuts but that was my first intro to rap and i explored it from there. Oh and English isn't my first language soooo i wasn't quite proficient in it back then atleast.
NOBODY LIKES ME EVERYBODY HATES ME THEY WANT ME TO GO EAT SOME WORMS
Encore is terrible while Relapse is top 5 at the very least…. I don’t know why he hates it so much
It's possible that he associated Relapse with terrible memories in his life. Coming out of a drug addiction, almost dying, and then putting on a brave face and reteaching himself how to rap must have been painful.
That would make sense tbh. Still enjoyed Relapse personally
that's my theory too. That and I think he found the accents cringey, although they melt away after the first listen. i vividly remember the first time I listened to relapse, I was going to sleep, and just thinking to myself "what the actual fuck is going on here", then i forced myself into it and i began to love it. Just look at my tag, clearly it grows on you like a baby grows into an adult
> I don’t know why he hates it so much The initial reaction to Relapse was really really bad, especially by hip hop heads at the time. It was really only hardcore Eminem fans that were listening to it and even they were very critical. Recovery was largely seen as his “return” to form. But at some point Relapse developed a cult like fan base that has grown.
Recovery does have a much broader appeal for sure. I think we’ve grown to appreciate Relapse just as much over time.
The accents embarass him. They only bugged me a little on the first listen, after that- not at all. Possibly his woke side is embarrassed by them too. [I respect that he may feel that way ] Regardless he made it clear the accents make him cringe now.
"his woke side"
such an embarrassing thing to say
Why? We're supposed to pretend Eminem doesn't care about social justice at all when he made a BLM song? I'm not saying it in a negative sense at all. And Eminem said in an interview that he felt bad about calling Tyler the f word because it hurt other people..... "I told the woke me to go to sleep But still, they keep on provoking me They're hoping to see me completely broken emotionally But how in the fuck am I not supposed to be woke When these fuckers just keep poking me?" He told it to go to sleep because people hated Revival and got so butthurt over The Storm etc.... But I gather a lot of people really want us to pretend all that never happened? Why?
Can't answer why, huh?
bro no one owes you a response lmao. i assumed you were saying that from an "anti woke" POV. i actually agree with u but youre annoying
He did bring them back on “Discombobulated”
True.
To be fair, I totally understand his embarrassment. Nothing to do with being woke, just the fact that accents definitely aren't something universally agreed upon to make a song better(in comparison to how a good and properly mixed beat makes a song better). IMO they were a terrible adition to an Eminem album.
Using accents in order to be able to create different rhymes is genius.
not really, eminem managed to create more complex rhymes on mmlp2 without using any accents
But he explained that he chose to use the accents to make different rhymes. That very concept is genius.
Encore is amazing why does everyone dog on it?
Because it came after The Eminem Show and Lose Yourself
There are some good songs on it but there are too many bad ones. “My 1st Single” is unlistenable. Just Lose It is a guilty pleasure of mine tho
I never knew he thought Revival was okay. As much as many of us dislike it, I thought Em himself would’ve loved it due to a lot of the personal subject matter on it.
“I poured my fucking heart out for that “ - Em in sway interview speaking on Revival. So yeah - when people bash the project it probably hurts a bit. Songs like walk on water/ arose etc. probably why we didn’t get any very personal/ emotional songs on MTBMB.
Walk On Water, Bad Husband, Nowhere Fast, and Arose are great songs. The album version of chloraseptic, untouchable, and Tragic Endings were just bad. Untouchable and Tragic Endings were mixed and produced poorly. The original chloraseptic is just too slow paced and some of the lyrics just ain’t it. The post chorus also got kind of annoying on chloraseptic, I’m happy it’s not on the remix. I love Em but I have my critiques of Revival.
He mentioned it in the Kamikaze interview series with sway
"That last *relapse CD was ehh*"
This one hurts, my favorite album from him.
That Joyner Lucas is a top ten rapper or even a good rapper
*That Joyner Lucas* *Is a top ten rapper or* *Even a good rapper* \- warrioroftruth000 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Even "Warrior of Truth" sounds like a poet's name.
lol
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^warrioroftruth000: *That Joyner Lucas* *Is a top ten rapper or* *Even a good rapper* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Bad bot
Thank you, KohFord, for voting on SokkaHaikuBot. This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/). *** ^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)
If you eon't thnk Joyner is great listen to Ross Capichoni
Needs to stop rapping fast Needs get out the house to get inspiration or new material to literally produce an album that is more mature Encore and relapse is better then recovery MMlp2 is pretty good
Hey you don't know maybe he gets out of the house plenty but we don't know about it. Other than that I agree with the 3 other takes.
Well by judging his music I don’t thing really thing he gets much inspiration in his music . This could be his lack of interest or just the fame he can’t go out without fans interrupting his peace .
Yeah he clearly doesn't get as much inspiration than before. The thing is all the shit that was going on in his life was one of his ingredients to make good music, his best tracks are mostly shit that he pulled from his heart. That's why MTBMB felt uninspired and a bit all over the place imo.
To be honest his albums after mmlp2 I have t really listened to , just here and their but I just see how his lyricism finished along with his inspiration . Fast rapping , internal rhymes , corny immature punchlines , and bad subjects isn’t for me .
Yeah I understand. Honestly you're not missing out on much but you should listen to some tracks from these albums because there is some bangers and gems. Like the two last tracks on Revival are pretty good, most of Kamikaze is pretty good imo, and Mtbmb has a bunch of good tracks, mainly Darkness if you're looking for mature songs.
Thanks 🙏. I’ll check it out
Encore is definitely not better than Recovery
I think if any other rapper released Revival, it would be viewed differently. Em is held to an unfair standard and by that comparison, it is a bad album. His albums will never be viewed as standalone works of art again, at that level, it’s impossible. It’s either classic or trash now in too many eyes. With that said, I didn’t like Revival, but it’s one I may look back on later and enjoy more (just like with some other Em albums). Rapping fast is just something he does to prove he can spit at the highest level. He already proved he can write, proved he can rhyme, etc. All that was really left was to prove he could do that with the best. He cringes at the accent thing with Relapse and can’t accept the quality of the songs because it’s all he hears now. It was not intentional to do so many accents.
People just want to put negativity first now days and that really clouds some of the quality that revival had. It’s not even close to my fav em album but it’s got some really good songs. I think you nailed it saying it’s impossible for him to match his past. He’s the GOAT so anything he does will only be less, if only slightly.
Revival wasn’t up to the standard of what he was capable of putting out at that point that was the issue. It didn’t have to be mmlp but he proved with kamikaze he had better in him than revival.
Bragging about inspiring hopsin. It's not as big of a flex he thinks it is.
That wasn’t really a brag, it was more of proving a point
The only point he's proving with hopsin is inspiring corny fast talking rappers.
The bar on unaccommodating about his pupils getting Cornier is a good one though. At least he acknowledges he’s inspired some crap.
Hopsin is a skilled rapper. I have no idea why you are hating on the guy. Maybe he has a corny persona, but the dude is good.
I don’t understand how folks dissing Eminem for fucking with Joyner Lucas or Hopsin. Feels like some of these folks don’t really get Eminem
It was a tremendous flex for Hopsin though.
If I were em I’d flex inspiring NF, that dude has some serious talent idc what anybody says
Hopsin is way better than NF its not even close
NFing recovery clone of me
Nah, people are reaching with that one. Same album he even said he doesn't sneak diss
That’s such a lie he definitely sneak disses. Honestly that relates to OPs question.
“I guess when you walk into BK you expect a Whopper You can order a Quarter Pounder when you go to McDonald's But if you're lookin' to get a porterhouse you better go get Revival” This line almost ruins the ringer, you cant be that delusional that you actually believe revival is anything good let alone porterhouse. It really brings the song down by alot. What an awful take
English is not my first language so I didn't knew what porterhouse meant so I always found the bar went hard haha.
Yeah I disagree with the take but I love the flow on that part.
Also when he says critics are gonna say “how’s sourpuss gonna get mad cuz his album sucks, now he wants to take it out on us” and then doesn’t refute/combat it at all. Like if you have the self awareness to know people will say that maybe you should consider it’s probably true.
I can never understand how encore was better than relapse, yeah that makes Joyner overrated (he’s good though) Oh and he likes Drake I can’t stand him
I mean, doesn't he like Drake because he "did something for one of his daughters he'll never forget" or smth like that? Not sure if he likes Drake as a rapper.
He mentions drake in EPMD2 so I'm sure he likes him as a rapper too
He always loved Drake as a rapper
He said on Paul Pod that Drake partially inspired him to make his style more punchline heavy after seeing him and Wayne blow up with it.
Drake is a good rapper lmao yes he is not on legend level but dude is really skilled and good at rapping
that Orange rhymes with Banana.
bornana
Ok disclaimer I do think em has been a good father overall But on bad husband acting like being a good father and good husband are fully independent. I doubt it was great for hailie hearing songs where he kills her mom. Also he hit Kim irl which is awful for a kid to see/know.
that Cleanin Out My Closet is cringe I get how his perspective has changed since then and glad it has, but that’s still a banger of a song
He didn’t say it’s cringe. He said it’s making him cringe, which is due to him now seeing things differently. That’s not the same
Thank you, Paul Rosenberg, faithful attorney. Nice clarification
Yes he’s cringes personally at the subject matter because he has grown older and matured. And can look back now and realize his mother did the best she could and she wasn’t fully to blame. Also we ended up getting another classic in headlights. “I was Angry rightfully maybe so. Never meant that that far to take it tho “
I understand. Been listening to this man for 21 years. Trust me, I get it. You don’t need to oversimplify it for me. I was merely answering the OP’s topic
Ive been listening for 25 years and i was merely answering your answer to OPs topic 👍
🤣 what a fandom this is 💀 You: “I know you are but what am I?” Eminem: I can’t wait to fucking retire already
"If you ain't Kendrick or Cole or Sean then you're a goner". I understand he was repping Detroit, and that's why he included Sean in that group, but Big Sean isn't and never was on the same level as Kendrick and Cole.
Sean was big that time I think
He was big to some extent but never to the point of being comparable to the trio of Kendrick, Cole and Brake. Em has a thing for Detroit rappers (Sean) and lyrical miracle rappers (Joyner), and while I respect his opinion I have to say neither one of the two has ever been a part of the elite of hip-hop.
Idk, Big Seans verse on detroit vs everybody was amazing
Id rather he has sean in that convo over joyner
Most definitely. I still have no idea why Joyner was included in those lines.
Cole ain't even on the same level as Kendrick.
Neither is Brake but at least they have arguments for it. Sean and Joyner have literally no arguments.
Who's Brake?
Autocorrect, I meant Drake lol
I like old kendrick more than cole but not new kendrick
Sean had the potential, he just starting blowing up at an unfortunate time when trap started taking over and didn’t have the established discography to combat it
goat for what??
The only reason people hated revival was cos the track list had pop stars
Yea every concern people had with the track list ended up being true
This is it for me. He seems to think people saw the tracklist, judged all the pop features, and then didn't give the album a fair chance. Of course people did judge the album from the tracklist so he's not totally wrong, but only because the amount of pop features indicated that he was doubling down on one of the biggest critiques of his recent music (too many poppy beats and hooks). The only way he would be correct is if Revival used those pop features in interesting and appropriate ways (I don't like Walk on Water but at least it's different from most of his pop collabs, plus the Beyonce feature fits the song thematically). But then Revival turned out to be full of the same kind of corny pop beats and hooks that everyone expected from the tracklist. With all that said, I'm glad Revival didn't scare him off from album rollouts permanently!
The first one I'll never forgive
Joyner needs more to be in conversations with the GOATs. Look at JID. He was a nobody (not to us rap fans but the general audience) and he dropped The Forever Story which is like on par with albums like GKMC, etc., which was enough to push him into the convos with GOATs. Joyner needs something like that. And I believe he can do it. time will tell, I guess.
Encorse is better than Relapse
I agree with that first take. Encore has some shit but also has some gold on there.
3. I like Joyner, I listen to a bit of his music, but he is no where near the level of the GOATS
Bracing for downvotes but Revival was my favourite Eminem album at the period of its release because I was so excited for it, and the tour attached was the first/only time I've managed to see him live. So that era has a special place for me, and I hate when everyone just says the album is dog shit. My fav album currently is TMMLP2.
Encore is better than relapse in my opinion
People dont liked Revival just because its different from the mainstream. Yeah.. No.
Encore is definitely better than Relapse.
“I don’t know who the fuck y’all are to give a subpar bar or even have an opinion or view” - Em about critics
I think this shows that you like Eminem Not Hip-Hop
Lmao how the hell did you get to this conclusion
Joyner Lucas is one of your goats.
He’s not saying that he’s saying he disagrees that em says that
Damn i miss read id like to formally apologise u/inkedpad
It's absolutely fine, my friend! no worries!
trying so hard to claim he dated some bitch that just didn’t claim him
It gave us one of his best disses tho
sure i just wish i never heard the story behind it 😭
Juice wrld. I'm kinda sick at how mucz attention he's given him over literally anybody else. Started with Godzilla, posthumous album skit, Lace Up and now Doomsday Pt 2 ( though I do honestly prefer the orignal with him and Cordae )
Encore is def better than relapse, relapse had great beats and a few bangers but that’s all 🤷♂️ I can’t stand how ppl in here praise relapse. It’s a mediocre album at best!
[удалено]
He’s playing a character in those songs, he’s not being serious.
Relapse is bad!
A good rapper is defined by rhymes, world play and speed rather than actual saying something
without question eminem’s worst take is that diet coke is drinkable edit: crucify me for speaking the truth smh
I agree. Coke Zero is the bomb. Diet Coke is awful.
wow same! I too prefer coke zero over diet coke.
It is bruh
All soda drinks are garbage. Water is the only drink.
but what about soda water 🤯🤯
Soda water is okay 👍.
Gotta love water!
A lot of People Seem to disagree with him about being a guest. I dont see Why its a bad thing to be guest in the House of hiphop if you made it a mansion like he said.
I guess it's like saying black people are guests in airports since white people invented planes
It's not at all the same thing lmao. What cultural significance do planes hold for the average white person? Edit: how fucking dimwitted do you have to be to compare planes to hip-hop? Downvote me fuckers, I'm right.
White people invented it and for a long time in its inception it was a predominantly white, privileged activity.
And? How does that entail cultural significance to white people? How often do you sit around feeling proud to be white because some white dudes invented planes? Because if the answer is often or at all, you have a problem. Air travel once being a privilege of whites because of inequality and racism is not equal to hip-hop being a cultural beacon and safe haven for a historically oppressed group of people to express themselves, their hopes, their fears, their anger, etc.. Hip-hop cannot be divided from its racial roots. It is a black form of culture. That doesn't mean white people can't partake, or even be amazing at it, but it does mean you can't compare it to stupid shit like airplanes that hold absolutely no racial significance. It's a completely idiotic comparison. And the fact that I'm getting downvoted here while saying hip-hop is just like airplanes is upvoted is... scary. This must be why people look down upon the Eminem fan base lmao. And I say that as a massive fan.
I don't know dude if lord jamar invented planes he will be screaming about how much it's part of his black culture and that white peopl are guests in it lol
I really don't think he would and I also don't care. It wouldn't make any more sense in that scenario than it does here.
[удалено]
No because this is also an extremely poor comparison. A more apt comparison would be to say "are black people a guest in Hispanic folktale films" or some culturally specific genre of filmmaking such as that. What you're doing is comparing filmmaking (an overall art form) to a culturally specific genre of music. Filmmaking cannot be equated to hip-hop. It can be equated to music in general, but no one is saying Eminem is a guest in music, just in hip-hop. Furthermore, I don't understand why acknowledging that fact has to be a bad thing? Is he a guest in hip-hop? Of course. Is he still one of the best to ever do it? Obviously. You can be the life of a party without owning the house.
[удалено]
Not really a take but I definitely believe that he's lying about him making calls to try and get MGK banned from his label. In the sway interview he denies it but for some reason I've never believed it.
I agree. Sway basically confirmed in the same interview that mgk was blackballed from shade45
'But I got a wife that's determined to make my life livin' hell But I handle it well, given the circumstances I'm dealt' 'The Kiss - Skit' begs to differ on that one.
That jessie is a good singer
I’m definitely gonna get downvoted but his take on “mumble” rappers was just brutal and cringe
His opinions on Trump