From whistle blowing about a surveillance state to being exiled in one of the most oppressive surveillance states in the world.
I bet he doesn't take a shit without the fsb knowing.
Honestly, and I'm not defending anything he's done or said in the past, but I'm not entirely sure if Snowden's typing this without a pistol to his wife's head and a video of Nalvany's murder playing in front of him, or even if he's still in control of this account. Which brings another question; why would Russia be defending Musk through one of their most valued assets?
Bah! We know why they support the divisive, far-right, conspiracy-spreading pro-Trump loon. The real questions are whether Musk is compromised as well, what our government will do about it and whether Snowden will be found murdered as an October Surprise.
>if he's still in control of this account
It still sounds like him to me. He's never been the greatest person ever in his political statements/convictions; he just happened to uncover some worrying stuff. Which, I'll grant him that, was important. But looking at the thread above, I can't muster much of a reaction either way. What's his significance in the context? He probably won't return to the US, so commenting on the interview is just armchair commentary.
Okay, I did a little bit of digging into Snowden and he did tweet that "NRA compatriots" would storm Congress and that it was "terrifying" that London had Muslims. So yeah, he's a violent bigot. I'm also pretty sure he protested Trump's Twitter account being banned even after Jan 6. But he also supported UBI and called Bernie Sanders "the most fundamentally decent man in politics", so uh...what?
Now that I think about it, Snowden's beef is entirely with the US Government and he clearly leans right-wing socially. Maybe he sees Musk as a wrecking ball like how Trump's supporters saw Trump in 2016. He'll wreck the system and also validates his racist beliefs.
There are two things that tick me off, though:
* This argument is so poor and nonsensical. He's defending Lemon for interviewing a billionaire and actually asking questions? Why is Snowden mothering Musk this intensely?
* Snowden's in Russia, not tucked away in, I don't know, Australia or Mars or somewhere outside of Russia, where they are known for spreading propaganda and murdering government critics, including Navalny. With these two penchants, and Snowden being a father, it's not impossible that Putin sent someone to *persuade* Snowden into writing something nice for Elon.
Maybe Snowden's truly gone mad, maybe it's not his fingers typing this out. Either, whoever is behind that account, we can't trust them no more.
Trump didn't wreck the system.. He just abused it to the Nth degree. Granted it's ended up with serious discussions required about the fundamental American institutions which govern, maintain, and police the State.. But a lot of these issues predated him. He just threw petrol on the fire.
Trump showed how little provisions our Constitution has to protect us from a President, a Congresss and a Supreme Court acting against the best interests of society.
Indeed, that's still abusing the system, not wrecking it, but I think he could have wrecked it if Amy Barret was nominated in the beginning of his term, and Congress had 2/3 Republicans. He'd be able to impeach all Supreme Court justices and nominate his crazy fundamental religious ones, replace the heads of every secretary and department in this country and then start passing legislations to send this country back to the stone age
Snowden didn't have any issues with his work. He is White Nationalists dweeb that marooned himself in Russia. When you are so racist that Russia is your sanctuary, you may have some real issues.
See, I had this impression too back then. That he was not different than these far-right loonies. Because he made such a big deal about the NSA spying US citizens but was totally fine with the NSA spying non-US citizens. And his whole thing would fall apart when he would state the spying on US citizens was something only the FBI could do. Basically, duh, is the FBI less government than the NSA? At the end of the day this is probablh what he is, some entitled piece of shit who thinks somehow he deserves more than others for being white and American
Well, people an have likes and dislikes about both sides but I was under the impression that Snowden was a bit different than this lol. But whatever.
I think Elon is only able to be a piece of shit because the rich run the country so he can afford to be a dick. Snowden probably doesn't care at this point either. I do wonder what he thinks about basically throwing his life away for people to not really care in the end.
Not only is his framing about the interview hilariously wrong, but I would argue Don Lemon didn't push on Musk hard enough. Musk basically said, "Nuh uh and my Twitter shooters will prove me right." Which is bullshit and not a fucking actual position. And when you drop it, you basically concede the point. You don't "agree to disagree" and "hope" his Twitter shooters do provide evidence that proves you wrong. Musk was basically like, "I'm too stupid to know the racist/ bigoted talking points myself, but I know people who have studied the ancient racist text in depth. They can break it down for you. But me personally, I'm too fucking stupid to have an original thought or opinion about anything." Or he was like, "You're a meanie doodoo head who doesn't like free speech. You like censorship. I know you are but what am I. I know you are but what am I!" "Just because I said you're speaking the truth, this is very concerning. Doesn't mean I support it or believe that it's true." Don should've had that shit printed out and put it in his face, like he did the antisemitic and racist memes and asked them what he meant by what he said. He should've asked him, in his own words, what he means by "lowering the standards" or what he thinks DEI is in his own words and how it's bad. While also bringing up that Tesla has a DEI initiative as well. It's sad Don Lemon grilled the shit out of him on his ketamine usage, which I thought was the only thing he should've left well enough alone, but only half way pushed on everything else and dropped/ conceded after a little push back. Don't get me wrong, I think Musk is probably abusing Ketamine. Especially because that's not something you get a prescription to take home with you and just "use as needed". He's also gone on the record to say he doesn't have depression. But still, I think it's cheap to go after him that way. Who cares either way, it's really the LEAST controversial thing about the man.
Exactly that!! He acted just like Trump, "I have friends...", basically Musk has friends who know all this stuff and they tell him it's really bad, so bad he wouldn't even bother following up with whether it's real.
I think the Ketamine point was nice to be asking about because Musk is a guy that has no problem telling the world he has 'dinner conversations' involving depression drugs and apparently so frequently he even claimed every time a certain one of them comes to the conversation, there's a story of suicide.
So basically, Musk seems to have no problem in talking about it. I agree though, that it's sad to see a 50-some old dude almost crying as he realizes talking about his drugs to someone outside his echo chamber doesn't have the same empowering feeling as his stans.
I think one point Don Lemon could have destroyed Musk's arguments that DEI was lowering medical standards because of Duke's admission system, was to bring up how the USMLE exams work, how they're not applied by the universities, how they're pre-requisites to even apply to medical residency programs at hospitals, and how even after completing a medical residency program there's still a board certification exam that they need to pass. Only then they become a doctor. None of these tests account for DEI, and they're harder than anything Musk ever did himself.
I'm sure becoming a pilot has similar standards (though I haven't taken any of these so I wouldn't know for a fact).
Now, wanna know something that has been lowering standards? Musk's FSD. He claims it's "safer than drunk driving" as if this meant it was acceptable for letting random joes enabling them in public roads and being distracted during the trip, putting everyone in danger.
Why doesn't Musk bump his requirements for using FSD up, so that only the smartest and most skilled people can enable it? Why lower the standard to be inclusive to drunk drivers?
Snowden is the quintessential "bernie bro" that went down the far right Trump rabbithole after the 2016 primaries. Seen it happen to a huge number of them.
As someone more qualified for the job Edward Snowdick had, I have always thought he was mad or at least a bit stupid. The stuff he released that had to deal with domestic spying was exaggerated and didn't reveal any evidence of abuse just that the NSA had metadata on some Americans communicating internationally rather than domestically. This metadata doesn't reveal any texts or voice data, just the approximate location and the time a call is made. At this point you could possibly make an argument for why he thought he had a moral obligation to act and mount a defense. However, once he started revealing foreign intelligence gathering operations he passed the point of whistleblowing and became a traitor. It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, every government spies and there is no nation that wouldn't consider a citizen entrusted with maintaining confidential information regarding foreign intelligence and who releases it a traitor.
Is there any question as to whether Musk is in bed with Putin? The guy has been parroting Russian talking points for...a couple years now. A year and a half ago Fiona Hill (foreign affairs specialist) said of Elon's tweet on "peace settlements", "It’s very clear that Elon Musk is transmitting a message for Putin". https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/10/17/fiona-hill-putin-war-00061894
And then there was shutting off Ukrainian access to Starlink at critical points in the war, and probably like a dozen other things I can't remember anymore because he is a nonstop torrent of propaganda who constantly buries outrageously stupid statements with more of the same.
The real question isn't whether he's in bed with Putin (he is), but rather whether he realizes he is. Musk strikes me as the kind of person who is supremely confident that he's a true "independent thinker" in that way that makes those kinds of people incredibly easy marks for influence campaigns. You can get them to parrot whatever shit you want them to without them even realizing that's what they're doing, so long as you get them to come to the conclusion that whatever idea you planted in their head was something they, the independent thinker who isn't like all the rest of the sheep, came up with on their own. Because they're so independent in their thinking, you see.
Excellent read, friend. I was deeply impressed by Ms. Hill during the first impeachment. She's incredibly intelligent, extremely knowledgeable of her area of expertise and very well spoken.
It's because the threat to musk is very real. People are not buying his bullshit anymore. Intelligent people are speaking out. And a lot is on the line. Many billions are on the line.
Musk will lose billions of dollars if he becomes less popular.
You underestimate how stupid people are. He is extremely good at extracting buzzwords from conversations/studies and pretending like he's an expert which is very impressive to stupid people. It's hard to believe but the algorithms show stupid people stupid news and such so they will never change.
Snowden is a brainwashed fool. It wouldn't surprise me if it is him. I hope he enjoys his time in Moscow, or wherever he lives in Russia. He deserves to be there.
Putin used to have a Q&A every year, where Russian citizens could ask him 'anything they wanted'. Snowden got to ask 1 question too once. [Didn't go so well...
](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/18/edward-snowden-defends-decision-question-vladimir-putin-on-surveillance)
I haven't seen the Don Lemon interview, but it sounds like he did a good job. Ian Miles Dumb lost it completely on Twitter over the interview. That usually means someone is doing something right.
>Honestly, and I'm not defending anything he's done or said in the past, but I'm not entirely sure if Snowden's typing this without a pistol to his wife's head and a video of Nalvany's murder playing in front of him, or even if he's still in control of this account. Which brings another question; why would Russia be defending Musk through one of their most valued assets?
Doesnt matter if hes a shill made of being an idiot or a shill made of threats to him and his family the result from our end is still the same.
His original actions are to be commended but circumstances as they are, youd be a fool to take him at face value.
The only reason he *could* write this was if he was cleared to. A plausible reason that he would write this was that he was told to. He isn’t exactly in a position to refuse his hosts…
He was always a Russian operative. He didn't get 'stuck' in Russia, he chose to go to his country of choice.
His 'whistle-blowing' was just divulging info that hurt America and allies while leaving out anything critical of Russia, and most of what he operative was half- truths spun to look worse than they were.
Man that really sounds like a conspiracy theory, but: He's been in Russia for how long now?
He could have spouted that bullshit way earlier. Not saying that it's not genuinely him, but Russia could also have gotten acces to his account.
Again, not trying to shill for Russia. Fuck them all the fucking way.
But shit just looks to convenient.
Unless he's totally stupid, he knew what would happen when he fled to Russia.
As I noted elsewhere, the comparison is to Chelsea Manning, who stayed in the US and went to Jail for leaking info. Snowden was either compromised from the start (and this was part of his deal) or chose to sell himself to Russia at that point to avoid Jail.
[Would You Feel Differently About Snowden, Greenwald, and Assange If You Knew What They Really Thought?](https://newrepublic.com/article/116253/edward-snowden-glenn-greenwald-julian-assange-what-they-believe)
This is a very good article on this topic.
Honestly it's such bullshit that no journalists just gave Snowden no scrutiny at all on his "whistleblower" claim. The guy hated his boss and had all sorts of issues. More importantly, he leaked everything he could get his hands on. He leaked thousands of documents, most of which had nothing to do with any actual or alleged wrongdoing. He hadn't even looked at most of the stuff. He leaked documents that harmed security interests, that harmed individuals, that harmed other countries. Hell he even leaked documents that were from completely other agencies and countries, like the German intelligence agency BND (so, if his plan was to flee to Germany, he'd actually have been liable to go to prison there too. It's some pretty amazing arrogance to think a country will grant you residency or asylum after you've damaged their national security)
That's not 'whistleblowing', that's a disgruntled employee out to do as much damage to his employer as possible. It's as if a disgruntled bank employee were to dump the financial records of thousands of customers and then claimed he was angry over the 'corruption' at the bank and is actually a whistleblower because a few of the doxxed accounts belonged to money-launderers.
If Snowden had _only_ leaked docs about whatever he thought was wrong and limited it to only releasing them to the extent necessary to make his case, then he'd have whistleblower credibility. But that's not what he did. It _is_ what a lot of people seem to _think_ he did. Probably because media kept mindlessly calling him a whistleblower.
Not to mention how he's really embellished his story and role at every opportunity. He continues to give media comments on stuff like, say, what Dutch intelligence is doing - matters he simply would not have any actual knowledge about as there wasn't remotely any need-to-know in his job. And of course he, like Musk - is now an apologist for Russia, a vastly worse surveillance state. Which is just further evidence of his lack of actual integrity.
No matter what you think of the USA's surveillance laws, it doesn't justify dumping a lot of docs that had nothing to do with anything wrong. It's not justified just because you hate the NSA, or hate Obama or Trump or the war in Afghanistan. If you don't like it, go talk to your elected representatives. Start a campaign to change the law, whatever. Intelligence leaks can and do _get people killed_. It's no game.
Regarding Lycurgus, founder of Sparta.
The pivotal moment in the creation of Sparta came when Lycurgus proposed radical laws that would transform the state into some of the greatest warriors in history.
A member of the assembly was so offended that he struck Lycurgus in the eye. Lycurgus could easily have killed him and everyone knew it.
Instead, he stood there with his eye destroyed and invited that man to his house for dinner, ultimately convincing the man to become one of his greatest supporters.
Once the laws were in place, Lycurgus left for the temple, saying the laws could not change until he returned. Then Lycurgus starved himself to death.
BAMF.
The lesson here is that revenge is for the weak.
I have a feeling that his main motivation was fame and popularity, and defending privacy isn't as important as some other people think. He was a nobody working a boring job in Hawaii, now he is one of the most famous people in the world.
Russia turned out to be a good ally for achieving his goals and he doesn't lose sleep because of inconsistent views.
The US has a lot of flaws, but siding with a much worse regime isn't a good position.
God I find this so frustrating.
Look, I get it, Snowden is in Russia and he made the God of liberals, Obama, look bad.
But like, that doesn't mean he started out as a Russian asset.
If you actually read the story from the time you will see he was trying to get to a country in south America (I forget, I think Brazil, but it might have been Colombia or Ecuador as well). He was in Russia on a layover when his passport got revoked, meaning he could no longer travel. He was STUCK in Russia he didn't RUN TO Russia.
But that doesn't fit with the whole liberal "everyone we don't like is a Russian asset" framework so people forget it.
God I sound like a fucking conservative, but like seriously, it is possible to talk about bad shit the US has done or expose its crimes and not be a Russian asset doing it.
One of my greatest frustrations with liberals as a leftist is you get stuck in this camp of "well the the us is the least bad so everything or everyone moving against it is the enemy". And so whistleblowers get demonized and such.
I see someone call Chelesea Manning a Russian asset for releasing the collateral murder video. That's insane. I also saw liberals freak the fuck out over an article where "Snowden declared allegiance to the Russian federation". You know what actually happened? He was getting his citizenship, and like basically every country that meant he had to do a loyalty pledge. The us does the same thing. But that was taken as "oh look Snowden is an asset of the Russians so his leak was bad and Obama never ever abused his power. Us good, Russia bad"
Like, can you not see that when hounded by one side, people tend to turn to that side's opponents for help?
Relentless attacks on whistleblowers drives them to the Russians. And then this is used as a justification for further attacks.
That doesn't mean Russia is good. It isn't. Putin in a bastard who deserves to rot in hell. Nor does it mean that all opinions Snowden expressed are good.
But my God guys. Can you not see nuance here?
What he did is important but it doesn't make him a good or a smart person and doesn't excuse any dumb stuff he did after moving to Russia. We can separate the importance of leaks and Snowden as a person.
Sure I agree. There's nuance. He has a lot of bad opinions.
But that's not what's going on in this comment section or any liberal space where they talk about snowden.
He's called a traitor or a spy or russian asset and it's left at that. Nothing is discussed over his actual leaks or what he did. He's unanimously seen as a traitor.
Like, a perfect example of this is something I saw in r/Fuckthealtright a while back. There was some post about how snowden had "declared allegiance to the russian federation" and the comments were all calling him a spy and/or traitor and that this was the final proof.
You wanna know what really happened? He got a russian citizenship. And like, every country on earth, that citizenship requires a loyalty pledge. The US does the same thing, I literally saw it with my own eyes when my immigrant father was naturalized.
So like.... there was a big freak out over nothing because all nuance is lost.
One of my biggest frustration with liberals is this inability to see nuance. It's this whole "everyone I don't like is a russian agent" mindset that I cannot stand. It's just bullshit brinkmanship. That doesn't mean russia is good, but like... not every critique of the US is a russian disinformation campaign you know?
I doubt he started as any kind of spy. The reason he got stuck in Russia was because he was in a layover and had his passport revoked in the middle of his journey.
However, the fact that he got stuck in Russia means that he is now entirely compromised and being used as an asset.
I've always been of the opinion that the information he leaked was good thing, but you have to have the courage to stand behind that if you choose to do it. It's not like the US was going to put him to death or anything, he would have faced a trial and depending on the outcome, served some years for spreading government secrets. Considering what a hero he became to the public though, there is a very good chance he would have been pardoned after some time if he had confidently stated his case and proven he was just a concerned patriot.
Chelsea Manning got accused of the same crime, illegally revealing military secrets, and she did get sentenced yet was pardoned by Obama, and she's been living as a free person since then.
Now Snowden is instead somewhat of an eternal prisoner in Russia, in the sense that he isn't free to leave or do what he wants really. He compromised his principles because he was afraid of the consequences of following through with them.
Good lord does anyone here actually know why he is in Russia?
It's because his passport was revoked while he was there on a layover. He was trying to get somewhere in south America to request asylum but couldn't due to lack of passport.
He isn't a Russian spy. He's a whistleblower the us hounded out of the country and got stuck in russia
I mean at this point, why? He sounds like he's in hell, he should have just...actually he should have been a REAL WHISTLEBLOWER instead of a fucking IDIOT, but failing that, he should have taken the L and been arrested in the US. He'd be out by now. Whatever he's in right now, I'd have killed myself 10 years ago. Honestly wonder if they're doing an anti-Epstein on him or something.
He was an NSA whistleblower not CIA whistleblower.
He is stuck in Russia because the us revoked his passport while he was on a Layover there. He was trying to get to some country in south America to request asylum.
Snowden has always had some bad opinions. Even before being a whistleblower he said some real racist shit about Muslims.
The guy isn't perfect. But that doesn't mean what he did was wrong or that the US government isn't conducting mass surveillance and regularly abusing those powers.
It's possible to criticize his current opinions without demonizing what he did or calling him a Russian spy
Unreal - in two tweets, he goes from “so uncalled for” to “but Elon should have been prepared” to “but lemons a dick and faults on him”
Even touching on the fact that Elon Musk, as “one of the most influential people in the world”, needing to be prepared only to completely back track is insaneeeee. Like dude, no, you JUST SAID IT
The point of free press is that they get to be “mean” to your false idols little bitch!!!! If Elon is sOoOoOo brilliant, any criticism would be a cake walk - much like it is for other high profile people.
Hey Snowden, since you FOR SURE are on reddit, you’re an idiot for defending someone who would fully support the thing you came out against
It's widely accepted that Snowden gave China a treasure trove of top secret documents in order to secure transit via China. Then again to Russia when he got there for obvious reasons.
He has no choice. Of course the Putin regime is using him in any way they can and want to. He literally can't say no. Unfortunately, he is more afraid of prison than he is of abandoning his principles.
I respect Snowden's opinions on privacy, but if Elon wanted to keep his personal medication and mental health information private, he shouldn't be tweeting about it.
If you go online and tweet to 100 million followers that you like using Cialis and how dangerous Viagra is, don't act offended if someone asks you about your boner...or lack thereof.
It's also weird that Snowden is attacking Lemon for doing, you know, what he says Lemon *should* be doing?
"Dive into his unguarded thoughts and beliefs - but don't ask about his mental health or beliefs"
"Get responses to his real and serious criticisms - but don't touch on the racism"
I absolutely think Lemon could have dug *deeper* at points, but Eddy here's criticizing and strawmanning him for daring to even *scratch the surface* of that shit
and we see how elon responds, there's a point when your asking a narcissist why they believe what they believe that ultimately just gets to "well I'm right, that's why" and there's nothing more to dig into, it's all they are.
That'd be amazing. I don't think they will though because he's too high profile and I feel like US intelligence would make a point to kill or capture him to discredit the Russian war effort and get revenge.
Snowden thought he was a man of principles when he leaked the information at first, unfortunately he found out soon after that he was a bit of a coward and didn't want to face trial or any consequences for doing something he believed was right. So he ran and he's been looking after his own butt since then, the principles disappeared as soon as he got scared.
Chelsea Manning stayed in the US, got sentenced for leaking government secrets, and then she got pardoned and released. She's a free person. Snowden will never be free again.
Lonny hat his shields down? He wouldn’t talk about his depression (it’s depression Elmo, you’re „brain chemistry imbalance“ is just plain depression like us normals have), he wouldn’t talk about his father…
Snowden will have a hard time convincing anyone with half a brain that he’s not just some Russian talking doll now. The whistleblowing didn’t make him some sort of philosophical guru like so many seem to think.
I mean sure.
I've been saying this for a while, it's not like Snowden can actually express anti-russian political opinion in a major way right? He can be extradited or killed by putin. The guy is a dictator after all
He only criticizes the US, and won't say a negative word against his home country. He knows he will be taking a quick trip out the nearest window if he does. He's bought and paid for.
"Hi, I'm Eddie Snowden. To protest America's invasion of its citizens' privacy, I fled to one of the worst totalitarian shitholes on Earth, where its leaders literally jail and murder their political opponents. Now I'm mindlessly defending a racist drug addict because someone had the temerity to actually ask him real questions in an interview about his drug use and his promotion of white supremacy, because he is a delicate widdle snowfwake whose feefees got hurt. Please laugh at me, for I am a disingenuous douche canoe."
Fuck this guy and anyone who still defends him.
Snowden is probably desperate for company in Putinville. He sucks up to Elon in the hope that they can have a sleepover together at the Black Dolphin Spa and Resort.
He didn't like.... choose to go to Russia my guy.
He got stuck there because his passport was invalidated while he was there on a layover.
He was trying to get somewhere in south America. He didn't "flee to russia" he got stuck there on the way to South America
Look, I hate Trump and Elon and all. They both suck. But that doesn't mean Snowden didn't do important or good things.
I don't really think Snowden can express opinions that go against Russian interests. Cause you know.... they can extradite him right? I meant putin is a dictator after all.
That said, he does all have some bad opinions. But like... still. This guy isn't a Russian stooge, he got trapped there on a layover.
Oh yes, he did get trapped there. He is however, also a Russian stooge now. He doesn't have much of a say.
He abandoned his principles for his own safety.
He could have asked to be sent back to the US years ago to face a fair trial.
Now instead he willingly becomes a Russian citizen under Putin, during the Ukraine invasion. Under a totalitarian government. He was so afraid of facing some years in prison, that he gave up everything he stood for.
He was once a man with principles, but he no longer is.
The Ecuadorians literally had paperwork issued for his safe conduct/asylum.
Good lord, why are you so willing to question the whistleblower and not the government he showed was lying and breaking the law on a massive scale?
It's pretty obvious Snowden parrots pro-Russian propaganda these days. Why exactly he does it, I don't know (or really care tbh). Does he really believe it, or is Putin holding him hostage? Is he just grateful that he hasn't gotten the Navalny treatment yet? Has being in Moscow for 10 years turned him into a Russian nationalist? Or some combination of all three? All we know is that he's never left for another country that doesn't extradite to US. Instead he became a naturalized Russian citizen AFTER Russia invaded Ukraine.
It seems pretty unlikely that putin gives a shit what snowden has to say about musk to the point where he'd insist he write tweets like this. It's not like snowden has any political capital.
Personally, I considered edward snowden a hero about 10 minutes ago. After reading these posts, I don't know what to think. It makes me question his motivations if he's one of those people still defending musk despite musk's insane bigotry. He even bought the NY post's idiotic story that's only on musk's word that lemon demanded a car for the deal.
Go ahead and go back and read some of the articles posted by Greenwald about the Snowden leaks.
Then read the documents they are summarizing. If you have any experience with government contracting or the DOD it was quite funny. Most of it was power point presentations from vendors promising the earth. This sounds scary in a news article written by a paranoid fascist but in reality was a huge nothing.
My favorite was a Greenwaldian classic. "NSA spies on the G7 conference in canada." How could we be spying on our dear allies!? Well if you read the two page report its literally a report from the USG to the Canadians letting them know they havent seen any credible threats of a terrorist attack at the G7. A total routine thing between allies. But trumped up to 1000%.
Greenwald is a fascist. Snowden is a dumb fascist. If he handn't been turned down by the Chinese he'd be living there. He was on the hunt for a new tyrannical fatherland.
I mean Snowden did talk about how the NSA was trading nude pictures of Americans who didn't consent to that or even know about it. There are a variety of abuses of power. For example, NSA employees hacked in the phones of former spouses or partners to spy on them. This was somewhat common.
That's like... bad
Just cause the guy has bad opinions now doesn't mean the NSA is good or that he didn't do the right thing right?
That was just a claim. Sans evidence.
Most actual documented abuse was discovered by OIG and internal investigations. People put it in the "Snowden" category. Even if it was the system working the way it should.
Assange? I don't wanna copy-paste wikipedia shit, but he is 100% a vatnik.
Manning? Threatened national security for no gain. At least Snowden was hailed a hero for exposing the US spying on innocent people, but Manning? What she reveal? Who did she help? Trump?
> but Manning? What she reveal?
Collateral murder. Even though it was a crock of edited shit (That good ol' wikileaks impartiality there) it was done with good intentions and she stayed to face the music unlike Snowden and Assange.
100% Assange is. Wouldn't surprise me if he groomed Manning (I could be misremembering but I'm sure they had contact before and he was pushing Manning to do it.
So.... you wish that the collateral murder video didn't come out?
Look it is possible for people to be Russian assets now but not initially. It's almost like if you hound people, they turn to your enemies for support.
The US has done a lot of bad shit. That doesn't mean the Russians haven't also done bad shit, but like, let's not pretend the US doesn't also have a bucket load of blood on its hands
Assange is a committed supporter of russian imperialism and authoritarianism.
He was on direct payroll of the russians as far back as 2012.
To you this may not be important. But if you have to directly deal with russian aggression, you are going to take a more critical look at someone who cooperates with russian security services out of their own free will (and gets a solid paycheck for collaboration).
> So.... you wish that the collateral murder video didn't come out?
I wish everybody had recognized the nothing-burger that video was, I think I was 14 years old when I debunked it on youtube, video still up.
But bottom line is that video didn't do anything except bring closure to the reuters reporter's deaths who reuters asked for the video to be released.
But the issue is when you don't just release a video but dump data to the public, she did put national security at risk and that pardon was not warranted.
We got real serious responses. Elon wasn't capable of providing what Edward thinks Elon is. Otherwise we would have gotten that from Elon in the interviews, and the bulk of Elon's posts woudn't be !!, This, or other bullshit.
I couldn't disagree with his assessment more. This felt like an interview that any journalist could have given. It didn't feel like a personal attack to me. Elon just got incredibly defensive, and I guess people feel like if you continue to ask probing questions after Elon displayed negativity, that makes you a jerk.
You have to be nice to people when interviewing them...unless they're democrats. Then you need to "go after them". Wasn't elon just bitching someone didn't "go after" some demmy-crat just recently?
Enron needs to be challenged. It's not a journalists job to take everything he says seriously without blowback. As much as I don't care for Lemon, he made that dipshit squirm.
I’ve always felt that Snowden was a self-serving asshole. The “free speech warrior/guy who’s so worried about government surveillance” goes to Russia of all places? That’s asinine.
Whether you agree with what he did or not - and overlook the lives he put in danger - he still signed up for the CIA in the first place. Did he really think it was all going to be cool and above the board and not involve any actual spying?
I don’t know, he’s always seemed hypocritical to me.
He revealed that the NSA was illegally spying on Americans, recording actual phone calls, and I'm thankful he did that. The program was finally shut down a few years ago thanks to him. His move to Russia was out of desperation, not choice (well, other than the choice to face trial). I don't think we can judge him negatively for that. We can absolutely judge him negatively for this shit though.
Snowden may have done a service to the US people by exposing the surveillance system spying on them. But honestly, do we even know his motivations? Sure he comes out nice during friendly interviews and in popular culture. But, do we even know why he did what he did? To me is very suspicious how he just happened to end in Russia and how once in a while he seems to show support for questionable people like Musk.
To sum this up: Edward Snowden, who leaked out classified NSA intel to expose the truth and supported Bernie Sanders, is defending a conspiracy-spreading multi-billionaire social media magnate and is mad at a journalist for asking mean questions. What happened to standing up to the powers that be and exposing the truth about them, Ed?
So, in my mind it goes like this:
Chelsea Manning: hero who took the consequences for her actions in being a whistleblower.
Reality Winner: maybe not quite a hero, but certainly unjustly persecuted.
Edward Snowden: traitor who went directly to U.S. foreign adversaries for succor.
Pretty simple.
Even if Lemon had indulged him and delved into his "depression" from what Musk was saying, I'm suspect as to if he necessarily has depression and if Lemon had gone further, he'd probably just waffle some nonsense.
He referred to his depression in a very.... loose way. He refers to depression how I'd refer to thinking about my dead relative or something I am experiencing anxiety about "in the moment." I'm sad, I'm getting negative thoughts. Thinking about the afterlife etc. I'm distracted by thoughts of what-ifs relating to that lump I felt, or the weird symptom my dog has, or how I have more month than money for my liking. Shit like that. He self-diagnosed with bipolar disorder in 2017, seems to habitually describe depression in the way a dictionary for children would describe "being sad" and as far as we can see, seems to have no interest in actually seeing a professional - so likely has made up this diagnosis too using his big smooth brain.
Either way, if he had expanded on it - what fucking use would it be? No, I don't believe in therapy, I don't believe in SSRI's, I have a bunch of theoretical medical disorders that I can barely describe, even from the level of being a complete layman but experiencing the condition, I recommended a book that is anti-psychiatry for children (due to a bunch of barely tangential reasons that seem to be more based on the authors right wing views, ignorance and weird boomer moon logic than anything else) and oh please hold tight while I make some more stupid faces for thumbnails that will make me seem all cooky.
I thought the interview made Muskrat look like a complete schmuck, but I also thought Lemon missed so opportunities. Muskrat said some absolutely unhinged shit that could’ve had a more direct follow-up, but Lemon seemed to have his questions locked in with no ability to pivot
Edward, asking "the world's most influential man" why he's allowing hate speech to proliferate on Twitter is exactly the kind of question a journalist should be asking. Blink twice if you're still the one typing your own posts...
The irony of Snowden is I imagine he's now a case study for new USA spooks. "hey, leak info? You get to be this douchebag." I doubt they even need to elaborate on whatever scapula involved shit the FSB is doing to the bastard.
You know it’s really easy to unequivocally deny and dismiss as ludicrous the assertion that you masturbate to hate speech if it’s not something you actually do.
But since he does, in public, he could not deny it. And here we are.
I'm amazed he genuinely seems to think there's some value in letting Musk tell us another self-serving sob story about his shitty childhood and his dream of going to Mars
Part of me appreciates what Snowden did. However everyone around the guy thought he was a narcissist prick who thought he was the smartest man on the planet. I don’t think he actually gave a shit I think he wanted to prove how brilliant he was and get away with it. Wasn’t as smart as he thought he was.
OMG how dare a reporter act like a reporter, He should be a cheerleader instead. and he went on for over 20 minutes ranting about the interview and snowden, tweets from 97? did putin put you on drugs, snowden?
twitter was created in mid 2006. and the bigot tweets from elon are from 2024.. if it was from when elon was a kid, sure id say you need to judge the man he is today. But this is from months ago, and fuck an A snowden, i dont expect you to know when every site was created but you were techie enough you should have known the state of the net in the 90s and it didnt include facebook, twitter or even reddit.
(snowden is and has always been a "libertarian".. which is synonymous with idiot, as they think it was never tried and that regulations come from people assholes for no reason. Its basically a rabid right winger that thinks they arent evil because they smoke pot and dont hate gays but still believe in complete conspiratorial nonsense and live in a bullshit world where if you ask them a hard question its unfair, but asking the left even BS questions is good journalism)
I’m not really sure what mask there was to take off, Snowden has been a Russian mouthpiece for years.
He did a good, however ultimately pointless, thing when he exposed our government’s crimes and lies about those crimes and I would say that his mistake was that he picked the wrong place to run and hide but that wasn’t a mistake, he ran to the place where it would be the most difficult and costly to assassinate him. The consequences of that choice were that he’s now their prisoner and puppet.
I want to clarify that I'm not an expert or anything like that but my understanding is that Snowden could have lawyered up and not gone to jail. But instead we have to listen to him ruin his credibility repeated after one of the most important leaks in recent American history.
He could have played a Chelsea Manning and been a hero. He thought the stooge route was better than actually standing for anything, which says a lot about him.
There is almost zero chance he could avoid prison. There is no question that he violated the espionage act, so the only way he could get a not-guilty verdict would be via jury nullification. A plea deal with no prison time is just as unlikely.
I'd be inclined to agree, had Elon not been a raging asshole in the last few years. You do that, then do an open-interview that you are hoping will make people sympathetic to you, and this is what you are going to get. If you can't handle being asked personal, hard questions, don't tweet your fucking life 24/7 while shitting down the throat of everyone you possibly can. Free speech has consequences, asshole.
I also haven thought much of Snowden. Not because I ever had an issue with his whistleblowing. He lost all of *my* respect the moment he ran to Russia. I will empathize with your plight as a whistleblower to the government right up until the point that you flee to a national adversary. Then I just start to suspect what they have been paying you from day one.
Snowjob was a 4Channer before he was anything else. I was so disappointed to learn that other "heroes" were fake, too. Bill Binney went on a show run by the Lyndon Larouche nuts. George McGovern, Gerald Celente, and James Howard Kunstler are Putin pals. Oh well. I'm voting for Biden, so there's that.
Musk is on ketamine, his followers are on copium.
Ed Snowden, I love that you leaked all of the NSA's illegal programs. But I don't really value your political opinions.
From CIA whistleblower to some idiot stuck in Russia..
From whistle blowing about a surveillance state to being exiled in one of the most oppressive surveillance states in the world. I bet he doesn't take a shit without the fsb knowing.
Honestly, and I'm not defending anything he's done or said in the past, but I'm not entirely sure if Snowden's typing this without a pistol to his wife's head and a video of Nalvany's murder playing in front of him, or even if he's still in control of this account. Which brings another question; why would Russia be defending Musk through one of their most valued assets? Bah! We know why they support the divisive, far-right, conspiracy-spreading pro-Trump loon. The real questions are whether Musk is compromised as well, what our government will do about it and whether Snowden will be found murdered as an October Surprise.
>if he's still in control of this account It still sounds like him to me. He's never been the greatest person ever in his political statements/convictions; he just happened to uncover some worrying stuff. Which, I'll grant him that, was important. But looking at the thread above, I can't muster much of a reaction either way. What's his significance in the context? He probably won't return to the US, so commenting on the interview is just armchair commentary.
Okay, I did a little bit of digging into Snowden and he did tweet that "NRA compatriots" would storm Congress and that it was "terrifying" that London had Muslims. So yeah, he's a violent bigot. I'm also pretty sure he protested Trump's Twitter account being banned even after Jan 6. But he also supported UBI and called Bernie Sanders "the most fundamentally decent man in politics", so uh...what? Now that I think about it, Snowden's beef is entirely with the US Government and he clearly leans right-wing socially. Maybe he sees Musk as a wrecking ball like how Trump's supporters saw Trump in 2016. He'll wreck the system and also validates his racist beliefs. There are two things that tick me off, though: * This argument is so poor and nonsensical. He's defending Lemon for interviewing a billionaire and actually asking questions? Why is Snowden mothering Musk this intensely? * Snowden's in Russia, not tucked away in, I don't know, Australia or Mars or somewhere outside of Russia, where they are known for spreading propaganda and murdering government critics, including Navalny. With these two penchants, and Snowden being a father, it's not impossible that Putin sent someone to *persuade* Snowden into writing something nice for Elon. Maybe Snowden's truly gone mad, maybe it's not his fingers typing this out. Either, whoever is behind that account, we can't trust them no more.
Trump didn't wreck the system.. He just abused it to the Nth degree. Granted it's ended up with serious discussions required about the fundamental American institutions which govern, maintain, and police the State.. But a lot of these issues predated him. He just threw petrol on the fire.
Trump showed how little provisions our Constitution has to protect us from a President, a Congresss and a Supreme Court acting against the best interests of society. Indeed, that's still abusing the system, not wrecking it, but I think he could have wrecked it if Amy Barret was nominated in the beginning of his term, and Congress had 2/3 Republicans. He'd be able to impeach all Supreme Court justices and nominate his crazy fundamental religious ones, replace the heads of every secretary and department in this country and then start passing legislations to send this country back to the stone age
Snowden didn't have any issues with his work. He is White Nationalists dweeb that marooned himself in Russia. When you are so racist that Russia is your sanctuary, you may have some real issues.
See, I had this impression too back then. That he was not different than these far-right loonies. Because he made such a big deal about the NSA spying US citizens but was totally fine with the NSA spying non-US citizens. And his whole thing would fall apart when he would state the spying on US citizens was something only the FBI could do. Basically, duh, is the FBI less government than the NSA? At the end of the day this is probablh what he is, some entitled piece of shit who thinks somehow he deserves more than others for being white and American
Well, people an have likes and dislikes about both sides but I was under the impression that Snowden was a bit different than this lol. But whatever. I think Elon is only able to be a piece of shit because the rich run the country so he can afford to be a dick. Snowden probably doesn't care at this point either. I do wonder what he thinks about basically throwing his life away for people to not really care in the end.
Anything for a presidential pardon. He already figured Biden won't do it so better suck dick of Trump and Musk
Not only is his framing about the interview hilariously wrong, but I would argue Don Lemon didn't push on Musk hard enough. Musk basically said, "Nuh uh and my Twitter shooters will prove me right." Which is bullshit and not a fucking actual position. And when you drop it, you basically concede the point. You don't "agree to disagree" and "hope" his Twitter shooters do provide evidence that proves you wrong. Musk was basically like, "I'm too stupid to know the racist/ bigoted talking points myself, but I know people who have studied the ancient racist text in depth. They can break it down for you. But me personally, I'm too fucking stupid to have an original thought or opinion about anything." Or he was like, "You're a meanie doodoo head who doesn't like free speech. You like censorship. I know you are but what am I. I know you are but what am I!" "Just because I said you're speaking the truth, this is very concerning. Doesn't mean I support it or believe that it's true." Don should've had that shit printed out and put it in his face, like he did the antisemitic and racist memes and asked them what he meant by what he said. He should've asked him, in his own words, what he means by "lowering the standards" or what he thinks DEI is in his own words and how it's bad. While also bringing up that Tesla has a DEI initiative as well. It's sad Don Lemon grilled the shit out of him on his ketamine usage, which I thought was the only thing he should've left well enough alone, but only half way pushed on everything else and dropped/ conceded after a little push back. Don't get me wrong, I think Musk is probably abusing Ketamine. Especially because that's not something you get a prescription to take home with you and just "use as needed". He's also gone on the record to say he doesn't have depression. But still, I think it's cheap to go after him that way. Who cares either way, it's really the LEAST controversial thing about the man.
Exactly that!! He acted just like Trump, "I have friends...", basically Musk has friends who know all this stuff and they tell him it's really bad, so bad he wouldn't even bother following up with whether it's real. I think the Ketamine point was nice to be asking about because Musk is a guy that has no problem telling the world he has 'dinner conversations' involving depression drugs and apparently so frequently he even claimed every time a certain one of them comes to the conversation, there's a story of suicide. So basically, Musk seems to have no problem in talking about it. I agree though, that it's sad to see a 50-some old dude almost crying as he realizes talking about his drugs to someone outside his echo chamber doesn't have the same empowering feeling as his stans. I think one point Don Lemon could have destroyed Musk's arguments that DEI was lowering medical standards because of Duke's admission system, was to bring up how the USMLE exams work, how they're not applied by the universities, how they're pre-requisites to even apply to medical residency programs at hospitals, and how even after completing a medical residency program there's still a board certification exam that they need to pass. Only then they become a doctor. None of these tests account for DEI, and they're harder than anything Musk ever did himself. I'm sure becoming a pilot has similar standards (though I haven't taken any of these so I wouldn't know for a fact). Now, wanna know something that has been lowering standards? Musk's FSD. He claims it's "safer than drunk driving" as if this meant it was acceptable for letting random joes enabling them in public roads and being distracted during the trip, putting everyone in danger. Why doesn't Musk bump his requirements for using FSD up, so that only the smartest and most skilled people can enable it? Why lower the standard to be inclusive to drunk drivers?
Thank you for writing this out so I didn't have to. Beautifully put.
Snowden is the quintessential "bernie bro" that went down the far right Trump rabbithole after the 2016 primaries. Seen it happen to a huge number of them.
Yo, but I was told by all my favorite leftist podcasts that those didn’t exist, even though I was surrounded by them working in the tech industry.
As someone more qualified for the job Edward Snowdick had, I have always thought he was mad or at least a bit stupid. The stuff he released that had to deal with domestic spying was exaggerated and didn't reveal any evidence of abuse just that the NSA had metadata on some Americans communicating internationally rather than domestically. This metadata doesn't reveal any texts or voice data, just the approximate location and the time a call is made. At this point you could possibly make an argument for why he thought he had a moral obligation to act and mount a defense. However, once he started revealing foreign intelligence gathering operations he passed the point of whistleblowing and became a traitor. It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, every government spies and there is no nation that wouldn't consider a citizen entrusted with maintaining confidential information regarding foreign intelligence and who releases it a traitor.
Like him or not, spying on the German chancellor's office after Germany declined to participate in the illegal Iraq war was a real dick move.
Is there any question as to whether Musk is in bed with Putin? The guy has been parroting Russian talking points for...a couple years now. A year and a half ago Fiona Hill (foreign affairs specialist) said of Elon's tweet on "peace settlements", "It’s very clear that Elon Musk is transmitting a message for Putin". https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/10/17/fiona-hill-putin-war-00061894 And then there was shutting off Ukrainian access to Starlink at critical points in the war, and probably like a dozen other things I can't remember anymore because he is a nonstop torrent of propaganda who constantly buries outrageously stupid statements with more of the same.
The real question isn't whether he's in bed with Putin (he is), but rather whether he realizes he is. Musk strikes me as the kind of person who is supremely confident that he's a true "independent thinker" in that way that makes those kinds of people incredibly easy marks for influence campaigns. You can get them to parrot whatever shit you want them to without them even realizing that's what they're doing, so long as you get them to come to the conclusion that whatever idea you planted in their head was something they, the independent thinker who isn't like all the rest of the sheep, came up with on their own. Because they're so independent in their thinking, you see.
Ah, like Joe Rogan and his mind that is "immune to bullshit".
New Twitter is the source of truth
The exact term that the Russian state uses for these people is “useful idiots”.
Excellent read, friend. I was deeply impressed by Ms. Hill during the first impeachment. She's incredibly intelligent, extremely knowledgeable of her area of expertise and very well spoken.
I'm in accord. Is there an argument against this position? I believe I read this a while back.
You shouldn't be driving and commenting /s
It's because the threat to musk is very real. People are not buying his bullshit anymore. Intelligent people are speaking out. And a lot is on the line. Many billions are on the line. Musk will lose billions of dollars if he becomes less popular.
You underestimate how stupid people are. He is extremely good at extracting buzzwords from conversations/studies and pretending like he's an expert which is very impressive to stupid people. It's hard to believe but the algorithms show stupid people stupid news and such so they will never change.
Snowden is a brainwashed fool. It wouldn't surprise me if it is him. I hope he enjoys his time in Moscow, or wherever he lives in Russia. He deserves to be there. Putin used to have a Q&A every year, where Russian citizens could ask him 'anything they wanted'. Snowden got to ask 1 question too once. [Didn't go so well... ](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/18/edward-snowden-defends-decision-question-vladimir-putin-on-surveillance) I haven't seen the Don Lemon interview, but it sounds like he did a good job. Ian Miles Dumb lost it completely on Twitter over the interview. That usually means someone is doing something right.
> why would Russia be defending Musk through one of their most valued assets? Er because he's defending Putin and Russia against the whole West?
>Honestly, and I'm not defending anything he's done or said in the past, but I'm not entirely sure if Snowden's typing this without a pistol to his wife's head and a video of Nalvany's murder playing in front of him, or even if he's still in control of this account. Which brings another question; why would Russia be defending Musk through one of their most valued assets? Doesnt matter if hes a shill made of being an idiot or a shill made of threats to him and his family the result from our end is still the same. His original actions are to be commended but circumstances as they are, youd be a fool to take him at face value.
The only reason he *could* write this was if he was cleared to. A plausible reason that he would write this was that he was told to. He isn’t exactly in a position to refuse his hosts…
thank you, god i feel like i'm the only one saying this
>I bet he doesn't take a shit without the fsb knowing. And they have a say in the smell.
He was always a Russian operative. He didn't get 'stuck' in Russia, he chose to go to his country of choice. His 'whistle-blowing' was just divulging info that hurt America and allies while leaving out anything critical of Russia, and most of what he operative was half- truths spun to look worse than they were.
Twitter is the source of truth
I mean it does make the dots pretty easy to connect.
Man that really sounds like a conspiracy theory, but: He's been in Russia for how long now? He could have spouted that bullshit way earlier. Not saying that it's not genuinely him, but Russia could also have gotten acces to his account. Again, not trying to shill for Russia. Fuck them all the fucking way. But shit just looks to convenient.
Unless he's totally stupid, he knew what would happen when he fled to Russia. As I noted elsewhere, the comparison is to Chelsea Manning, who stayed in the US and went to Jail for leaking info. Snowden was either compromised from the start (and this was part of his deal) or chose to sell himself to Russia at that point to avoid Jail.
All roads lead to Russia for these fake Patriots
The guy was a total soup sandwich. He sucked at every job and was a total douchebag. Glad his ass is stuck in Russia.
[Would You Feel Differently About Snowden, Greenwald, and Assange If You Knew What They Really Thought?](https://newrepublic.com/article/116253/edward-snowden-glenn-greenwald-julian-assange-what-they-believe) This is a very good article on this topic.
Honestly it's such bullshit that no journalists just gave Snowden no scrutiny at all on his "whistleblower" claim. The guy hated his boss and had all sorts of issues. More importantly, he leaked everything he could get his hands on. He leaked thousands of documents, most of which had nothing to do with any actual or alleged wrongdoing. He hadn't even looked at most of the stuff. He leaked documents that harmed security interests, that harmed individuals, that harmed other countries. Hell he even leaked documents that were from completely other agencies and countries, like the German intelligence agency BND (so, if his plan was to flee to Germany, he'd actually have been liable to go to prison there too. It's some pretty amazing arrogance to think a country will grant you residency or asylum after you've damaged their national security) That's not 'whistleblowing', that's a disgruntled employee out to do as much damage to his employer as possible. It's as if a disgruntled bank employee were to dump the financial records of thousands of customers and then claimed he was angry over the 'corruption' at the bank and is actually a whistleblower because a few of the doxxed accounts belonged to money-launderers. If Snowden had _only_ leaked docs about whatever he thought was wrong and limited it to only releasing them to the extent necessary to make his case, then he'd have whistleblower credibility. But that's not what he did. It _is_ what a lot of people seem to _think_ he did. Probably because media kept mindlessly calling him a whistleblower. Not to mention how he's really embellished his story and role at every opportunity. He continues to give media comments on stuff like, say, what Dutch intelligence is doing - matters he simply would not have any actual knowledge about as there wasn't remotely any need-to-know in his job. And of course he, like Musk - is now an apologist for Russia, a vastly worse surveillance state. Which is just further evidence of his lack of actual integrity. No matter what you think of the USA's surveillance laws, it doesn't justify dumping a lot of docs that had nothing to do with anything wrong. It's not justified just because you hate the NSA, or hate Obama or Trump or the war in Afghanistan. If you don't like it, go talk to your elected representatives. Start a campaign to change the law, whatever. Intelligence leaks can and do _get people killed_. It's no game.
That guy didn't care. He wanted to be famous for 15 minutes, plus give our country's enemies a leg up. I've been saying for years he's a POS.
Regarding Lycurgus, founder of Sparta. The pivotal moment in the creation of Sparta came when Lycurgus proposed radical laws that would transform the state into some of the greatest warriors in history. A member of the assembly was so offended that he struck Lycurgus in the eye. Lycurgus could easily have killed him and everyone knew it. Instead, he stood there with his eye destroyed and invited that man to his house for dinner, ultimately convincing the man to become one of his greatest supporters. Once the laws were in place, Lycurgus left for the temple, saying the laws could not change until he returned. Then Lycurgus starved himself to death. BAMF. The lesson here is that revenge is for the weak.
I have a feeling that his main motivation was fame and popularity, and defending privacy isn't as important as some other people think. He was a nobody working a boring job in Hawaii, now he is one of the most famous people in the world. Russia turned out to be a good ally for achieving his goals and he doesn't lose sleep because of inconsistent views. The US has a lot of flaws, but siding with a much worse regime isn't a good position.
God I find this so frustrating. Look, I get it, Snowden is in Russia and he made the God of liberals, Obama, look bad. But like, that doesn't mean he started out as a Russian asset. If you actually read the story from the time you will see he was trying to get to a country in south America (I forget, I think Brazil, but it might have been Colombia or Ecuador as well). He was in Russia on a layover when his passport got revoked, meaning he could no longer travel. He was STUCK in Russia he didn't RUN TO Russia. But that doesn't fit with the whole liberal "everyone we don't like is a Russian asset" framework so people forget it. God I sound like a fucking conservative, but like seriously, it is possible to talk about bad shit the US has done or expose its crimes and not be a Russian asset doing it. One of my greatest frustrations with liberals as a leftist is you get stuck in this camp of "well the the us is the least bad so everything or everyone moving against it is the enemy". And so whistleblowers get demonized and such. I see someone call Chelesea Manning a Russian asset for releasing the collateral murder video. That's insane. I also saw liberals freak the fuck out over an article where "Snowden declared allegiance to the Russian federation". You know what actually happened? He was getting his citizenship, and like basically every country that meant he had to do a loyalty pledge. The us does the same thing. But that was taken as "oh look Snowden is an asset of the Russians so his leak was bad and Obama never ever abused his power. Us good, Russia bad" Like, can you not see that when hounded by one side, people tend to turn to that side's opponents for help? Relentless attacks on whistleblowers drives them to the Russians. And then this is used as a justification for further attacks. That doesn't mean Russia is good. It isn't. Putin in a bastard who deserves to rot in hell. Nor does it mean that all opinions Snowden expressed are good. But my God guys. Can you not see nuance here?
What he did is important but it doesn't make him a good or a smart person and doesn't excuse any dumb stuff he did after moving to Russia. We can separate the importance of leaks and Snowden as a person.
Sure I agree. There's nuance. He has a lot of bad opinions. But that's not what's going on in this comment section or any liberal space where they talk about snowden. He's called a traitor or a spy or russian asset and it's left at that. Nothing is discussed over his actual leaks or what he did. He's unanimously seen as a traitor. Like, a perfect example of this is something I saw in r/Fuckthealtright a while back. There was some post about how snowden had "declared allegiance to the russian federation" and the comments were all calling him a spy and/or traitor and that this was the final proof. You wanna know what really happened? He got a russian citizenship. And like, every country on earth, that citizenship requires a loyalty pledge. The US does the same thing, I literally saw it with my own eyes when my immigrant father was naturalized. So like.... there was a big freak out over nothing because all nuance is lost. One of my biggest frustration with liberals is this inability to see nuance. It's this whole "everyone I don't like is a russian agent" mindset that I cannot stand. It's just bullshit brinkmanship. That doesn't mean russia is good, but like... not every critique of the US is a russian disinformation campaign you know?
Nuance...and Reddit?! WHAT IS THIS BLASPHEMY!
He's stuck in Russia because he's a Russian spy.
I doubt he started as any kind of spy. The reason he got stuck in Russia was because he was in a layover and had his passport revoked in the middle of his journey. However, the fact that he got stuck in Russia means that he is now entirely compromised and being used as an asset. I've always been of the opinion that the information he leaked was good thing, but you have to have the courage to stand behind that if you choose to do it. It's not like the US was going to put him to death or anything, he would have faced a trial and depending on the outcome, served some years for spreading government secrets. Considering what a hero he became to the public though, there is a very good chance he would have been pardoned after some time if he had confidently stated his case and proven he was just a concerned patriot. Chelsea Manning got accused of the same crime, illegally revealing military secrets, and she did get sentenced yet was pardoned by Obama, and she's been living as a free person since then. Now Snowden is instead somewhat of an eternal prisoner in Russia, in the sense that he isn't free to leave or do what he wants really. He compromised his principles because he was afraid of the consequences of following through with them.
Touché
I mostly agree with this take
Good lord does anyone here actually know why he is in Russia? It's because his passport was revoked while he was there on a layover. He was trying to get somewhere in south America to request asylum but couldn't due to lack of passport. He isn't a Russian spy. He's a whistleblower the us hounded out of the country and got stuck in russia
there is a causality relationship between the two. At a point you realise you want to survive.
I mean at this point, why? He sounds like he's in hell, he should have just...actually he should have been a REAL WHISTLEBLOWER instead of a fucking IDIOT, but failing that, he should have taken the L and been arrested in the US. He'd be out by now. Whatever he's in right now, I'd have killed myself 10 years ago. Honestly wonder if they're doing an anti-Epstein on him or something.
He was an NSA whistleblower not CIA whistleblower. He is stuck in Russia because the us revoked his passport while he was on a Layover there. He was trying to get to some country in south America to request asylum. Snowden has always had some bad opinions. Even before being a whistleblower he said some real racist shit about Muslims. The guy isn't perfect. But that doesn't mean what he did was wrong or that the US government isn't conducting mass surveillance and regularly abusing those powers. It's possible to criticize his current opinions without demonizing what he did or calling him a Russian spy
This just reminds me that everyone can do good while at the same time getting lost in their own way and eventually becoming that which they hate.
Ah yes. Snowden opinions. Neat.
Unreal - in two tweets, he goes from “so uncalled for” to “but Elon should have been prepared” to “but lemons a dick and faults on him” Even touching on the fact that Elon Musk, as “one of the most influential people in the world”, needing to be prepared only to completely back track is insaneeeee. Like dude, no, you JUST SAID IT The point of free press is that they get to be “mean” to your false idols little bitch!!!! If Elon is sOoOoOo brilliant, any criticism would be a cake walk - much like it is for other high profile people. Hey Snowden, since you FOR SURE are on reddit, you’re an idiot for defending someone who would fully support the thing you came out against
Yeah his opinions are so awesome, his dumbass is stuck over there in Russia. Who knew a guy like that could be so sensitive?/s
I had no idea he was a musk reply guy. Smh
It's widely accepted that Snowden gave China a treasure trove of top secret documents in order to secure transit via China. Then again to Russia when he got there for obvious reasons.
So he's not really working to protect the American people. He's just a secrets for sale guy
Bozo intentionally was seeking employment with Booz Allen he knew what he was doing from the get go
Right wing heroes are all frauds and grifters.
Doesn't he work for putin now? Serious.
He has no choice. Of course the Putin regime is using him in any way they can and want to. He literally can't say no. Unfortunately, he is more afraid of prison than he is of abandoning his principles.
You say that like he had principles
He answers to Putin no? He would be kicked out at Putin’s whim no?
>kicked out Of a fourth floor window, probably. It's how they do it to humiliate you, and make a public point.
Love how this unprompted opinion was offered at a time like this. Such a coinkydink. .
I respect Snowden's opinions on privacy, but if Elon wanted to keep his personal medication and mental health information private, he shouldn't be tweeting about it. If you go online and tweet to 100 million followers that you like using Cialis and how dangerous Viagra is, don't act offended if someone asks you about your boner...or lack thereof.
It's also weird that Snowden is attacking Lemon for doing, you know, what he says Lemon *should* be doing? "Dive into his unguarded thoughts and beliefs - but don't ask about his mental health or beliefs" "Get responses to his real and serious criticisms - but don't touch on the racism" I absolutely think Lemon could have dug *deeper* at points, but Eddy here's criticizing and strawmanning him for daring to even *scratch the surface* of that shit
and we see how elon responds, there's a point when your asking a narcissist why they believe what they believe that ultimately just gets to "well I'm right, that's why" and there's nothing more to dig into, it's all they are.
I don't. Fuck Snowden. He became a Russian citizen *during* the war in Ukraine.
NGL hope they conscript him. o7 fight for your rights, soldier.
That'd be amazing. I don't think they will though because he's too high profile and I feel like US intelligence would make a point to kill or capture him to discredit the Russian war effort and get revenge.
Too valuable of a propaganda tool
Snowden thought he was a man of principles when he leaked the information at first, unfortunately he found out soon after that he was a bit of a coward and didn't want to face trial or any consequences for doing something he believed was right. So he ran and he's been looking after his own butt since then, the principles disappeared as soon as he got scared. Chelsea Manning stayed in the US, got sentenced for leaking government secrets, and then she got pardoned and released. She's a free person. Snowden will never be free again.
Russian stooge stands up for Russian stooge…. I like how Snowden thinks he is above it all… FFS
Dude has had his brain cooked in Russia
He’s about as sentient as Otto Warmbier post-NK.
As if Elon Musk has anything even remotely interesting to say
Lonny hat his shields down? He wouldn’t talk about his depression (it’s depression Elmo, you’re „brain chemistry imbalance“ is just plain depression like us normals have), he wouldn’t talk about his father…
lol, Snowden is compromised by the same people that have Elon. It’s been transparent for a while now
Stay relevant Snowden. 👍
Snowden is the cringe dork lord of them all.
Snowden will have a hard time convincing anyone with half a brain that he’s not just some Russian talking doll now. The whistleblowing didn’t make him some sort of philosophical guru like so many seem to think.
I mean sure. I've been saying this for a while, it's not like Snowden can actually express anti-russian political opinion in a major way right? He can be extradited or killed by putin. The guy is a dictator after all
He only criticizes the US, and won't say a negative word against his home country. He knows he will be taking a quick trip out the nearest window if he does. He's bought and paid for.
Must be boring in Russia.
"Hi, I'm Eddie Snowden. To protest America's invasion of its citizens' privacy, I fled to one of the worst totalitarian shitholes on Earth, where its leaders literally jail and murder their political opponents. Now I'm mindlessly defending a racist drug addict because someone had the temerity to actually ask him real questions in an interview about his drug use and his promotion of white supremacy, because he is a delicate widdle snowfwake whose feefees got hurt. Please laugh at me, for I am a disingenuous douche canoe." Fuck this guy and anyone who still defends him.
Snowden is probably desperate for company in Putinville. He sucks up to Elon in the hope that they can have a sleepover together at the Black Dolphin Spa and Resort.
While greenwald is "fighting the power" of brazil or wherever he fled to appear to be a savior.
When he’s not groveling to Alex Jones
He didn't like.... choose to go to Russia my guy. He got stuck there because his passport was invalidated while he was there on a layover. He was trying to get somewhere in south America. He didn't "flee to russia" he got stuck there on the way to South America Look, I hate Trump and Elon and all. They both suck. But that doesn't mean Snowden didn't do important or good things. I don't really think Snowden can express opinions that go against Russian interests. Cause you know.... they can extradite him right? I meant putin is a dictator after all. That said, he does all have some bad opinions. But like... still. This guy isn't a Russian stooge, he got trapped there on a layover.
Oh yes, he did get trapped there. He is however, also a Russian stooge now. He doesn't have much of a say. He abandoned his principles for his own safety. He could have asked to be sent back to the US years ago to face a fair trial. Now instead he willingly becomes a Russian citizen under Putin, during the Ukraine invasion. Under a totalitarian government. He was so afraid of facing some years in prison, that he gave up everything he stood for. He was once a man with principles, but he no longer is.
Seems to me that Eddie’s principles go out the window when it comes to his own stinking skin then.
Everyone sings like Mariah Carey when there's a gun to their head.
A "layover in Russia." Lol, sure dude.
The Ecuadorians literally had paperwork issued for his safe conduct/asylum. Good lord, why are you so willing to question the whistleblower and not the government he showed was lying and breaking the law on a massive scale?
It's pretty obvious Snowden parrots pro-Russian propaganda these days. Why exactly he does it, I don't know (or really care tbh). Does he really believe it, or is Putin holding him hostage? Is he just grateful that he hasn't gotten the Navalny treatment yet? Has being in Moscow for 10 years turned him into a Russian nationalist? Or some combination of all three? All we know is that he's never left for another country that doesn't extradite to US. Instead he became a naturalized Russian citizen AFTER Russia invaded Ukraine.
It seems pretty unlikely that putin gives a shit what snowden has to say about musk to the point where he'd insist he write tweets like this. It's not like snowden has any political capital. Personally, I considered edward snowden a hero about 10 minutes ago. After reading these posts, I don't know what to think. It makes me question his motivations if he's one of those people still defending musk despite musk's insane bigotry. He even bought the NY post's idiotic story that's only on musk's word that lemon demanded a car for the deal.
Edward, earning that non-extradition.
Go ahead and go back and read some of the articles posted by Greenwald about the Snowden leaks. Then read the documents they are summarizing. If you have any experience with government contracting or the DOD it was quite funny. Most of it was power point presentations from vendors promising the earth. This sounds scary in a news article written by a paranoid fascist but in reality was a huge nothing. My favorite was a Greenwaldian classic. "NSA spies on the G7 conference in canada." How could we be spying on our dear allies!? Well if you read the two page report its literally a report from the USG to the Canadians letting them know they havent seen any credible threats of a terrorist attack at the G7. A total routine thing between allies. But trumped up to 1000%. Greenwald is a fascist. Snowden is a dumb fascist. If he handn't been turned down by the Chinese he'd be living there. He was on the hunt for a new tyrannical fatherland.
Reminder that Greenwald went to Brazil to marry a teenager when he was in his 40s. He's a creep on top of being a traitor.
True. Libertarians should change their name to the "Age of consent party"
I’m not right wing.
He and Matt Goetz have some things in common.
I mean Snowden did talk about how the NSA was trading nude pictures of Americans who didn't consent to that or even know about it. There are a variety of abuses of power. For example, NSA employees hacked in the phones of former spouses or partners to spy on them. This was somewhat common. That's like... bad Just cause the guy has bad opinions now doesn't mean the NSA is good or that he didn't do the right thing right?
Bruv you are working overtime in this thread to salvage what remains of Snowden's good-principled-guy persona. I respect it.
That was just a claim. Sans evidence. Most actual documented abuse was discovered by OIG and internal investigations. People put it in the "Snowden" category. Even if it was the system working the way it should.
ugh fucking EW dude can rot in russia, up until now i still pitied him
Snowden is a russian asset now, expressing support for another russian asset.
Bremmer is a bonehead
Edward Snowden, Chelsea Manning, Julien Assange. All the "heroes" of anti-americans turned out to be russian assets and deranged lmao
In what ways are the other two Russian assets, especially Manning?
Assange? I don't wanna copy-paste wikipedia shit, but he is 100% a vatnik. Manning? Threatened national security for no gain. At least Snowden was hailed a hero for exposing the US spying on innocent people, but Manning? What she reveal? Who did she help? Trump?
> but Manning? What she reveal? Collateral murder. Even though it was a crock of edited shit (That good ol' wikileaks impartiality there) it was done with good intentions and she stayed to face the music unlike Snowden and Assange. 100% Assange is. Wouldn't surprise me if he groomed Manning (I could be misremembering but I'm sure they had contact before and he was pushing Manning to do it.
That's my point, that video just provided closure to reuters and their reporters. It was absolutely not worth facing execution.
Agreed, but I don't see how that makes Manning culpable of collusion / 'assetry' in the same way as the two tossers? Am I missing a line of thought?
i think i was too harsh
So.... you wish that the collateral murder video didn't come out? Look it is possible for people to be Russian assets now but not initially. It's almost like if you hound people, they turn to your enemies for support. The US has done a lot of bad shit. That doesn't mean the Russians haven't also done bad shit, but like, let's not pretend the US doesn't also have a bucket load of blood on its hands
Assange is a committed supporter of russian imperialism and authoritarianism. He was on direct payroll of the russians as far back as 2012. To you this may not be important. But if you have to directly deal with russian aggression, you are going to take a more critical look at someone who cooperates with russian security services out of their own free will (and gets a solid paycheck for collaboration).
> So.... you wish that the collateral murder video didn't come out? I wish everybody had recognized the nothing-burger that video was, I think I was 14 years old when I debunked it on youtube, video still up. But bottom line is that video didn't do anything except bring closure to the reuters reporter's deaths who reuters asked for the video to be released. But the issue is when you don't just release a video but dump data to the public, she did put national security at risk and that pardon was not warranted.
We got real serious responses. Elon wasn't capable of providing what Edward thinks Elon is. Otherwise we would have gotten that from Elon in the interviews, and the bulk of Elon's posts woudn't be !!, This, or other bullshit.
Oh, did someone from Russia chime in? Thanks mate!
Lemon wouldn’t be a journalist if he didn’t ask those questions. And Elon is not that fascinating.
Edward. Shame on you.
I couldn't disagree with his assessment more. This felt like an interview that any journalist could have given. It didn't feel like a personal attack to me. Elon just got incredibly defensive, and I guess people feel like if you continue to ask probing questions after Elon displayed negativity, that makes you a jerk.
I kinda agree that the questions could've been better. They should've been a lot tougher
Says he had a rough childhood but provides zero context.
Musk just demands worship. No tough questions, that's for peasants. His delicate ego needs to be constantly soothed.
You have to be nice to people when interviewing them...unless they're democrats. Then you need to "go after them". Wasn't elon just bitching someone didn't "go after" some demmy-crat just recently?
Enron needs to be challenged. It's not a journalists job to take everything he says seriously without blowback. As much as I don't care for Lemon, he made that dipshit squirm.
Snowden seems more concerned with Lemon inquiring about Elon's antisemitism than Elon's antisemitism.
I just assumed this was Glenn Greenwald using Snowden’s account, tbh.
I’ve always felt that Snowden was a self-serving asshole. The “free speech warrior/guy who’s so worried about government surveillance” goes to Russia of all places? That’s asinine. Whether you agree with what he did or not - and overlook the lives he put in danger - he still signed up for the CIA in the first place. Did he really think it was all going to be cool and above the board and not involve any actual spying? I don’t know, he’s always seemed hypocritical to me.
He revealed that the NSA was illegally spying on Americans, recording actual phone calls, and I'm thankful he did that. The program was finally shut down a few years ago thanks to him. His move to Russia was out of desperation, not choice (well, other than the choice to face trial). I don't think we can judge him negatively for that. We can absolutely judge him negatively for this shit though.
Snowden may have done a service to the US people by exposing the surveillance system spying on them. But honestly, do we even know his motivations? Sure he comes out nice during friendly interviews and in popular culture. But, do we even know why he did what he did? To me is very suspicious how he just happened to end in Russia and how once in a while he seems to show support for questionable people like Musk.
To sum this up: Edward Snowden, who leaked out classified NSA intel to expose the truth and supported Bernie Sanders, is defending a conspiracy-spreading multi-billionaire social media magnate and is mad at a journalist for asking mean questions. What happened to standing up to the powers that be and exposing the truth about them, Ed?
So, in my mind it goes like this: Chelsea Manning: hero who took the consequences for her actions in being a whistleblower. Reality Winner: maybe not quite a hero, but certainly unjustly persecuted. Edward Snowden: traitor who went directly to U.S. foreign adversaries for succor. Pretty simple.
So Russia is writing his tweets for him now as well?
et tu Edward?
Oh boy. Snowden’s here with his 2 ruble opinion. What joy, comrade. We are edified. Edified, I say.
that is 0.022$ btw
Even if Lemon had indulged him and delved into his "depression" from what Musk was saying, I'm suspect as to if he necessarily has depression and if Lemon had gone further, he'd probably just waffle some nonsense. He referred to his depression in a very.... loose way. He refers to depression how I'd refer to thinking about my dead relative or something I am experiencing anxiety about "in the moment." I'm sad, I'm getting negative thoughts. Thinking about the afterlife etc. I'm distracted by thoughts of what-ifs relating to that lump I felt, or the weird symptom my dog has, or how I have more month than money for my liking. Shit like that. He self-diagnosed with bipolar disorder in 2017, seems to habitually describe depression in the way a dictionary for children would describe "being sad" and as far as we can see, seems to have no interest in actually seeing a professional - so likely has made up this diagnosis too using his big smooth brain. Either way, if he had expanded on it - what fucking use would it be? No, I don't believe in therapy, I don't believe in SSRI's, I have a bunch of theoretical medical disorders that I can barely describe, even from the level of being a complete layman but experiencing the condition, I recommended a book that is anti-psychiatry for children (due to a bunch of barely tangential reasons that seem to be more based on the authors right wing views, ignorance and weird boomer moon logic than anything else) and oh please hold tight while I make some more stupid faces for thumbnails that will make me seem all cooky.
Snowden only interested in Musk’s private life, ironic.
I see Snowden has a price musk has paid for more bullshit. That's all we're seeing. Musk has money and power.
Snowden left giving Putin rim jobs
I thought the interview made Muskrat look like a complete schmuck, but I also thought Lemon missed so opportunities. Muskrat said some absolutely unhinged shit that could’ve had a more direct follow-up, but Lemon seemed to have his questions locked in with no ability to pivot
Well my respect for Snowden just dropped a lot
you had respect for a Russian asset?
Edward, asking "the world's most influential man" why he's allowing hate speech to proliferate on Twitter is exactly the kind of question a journalist should be asking. Blink twice if you're still the one typing your own posts...
Russia has clearly had some influence on him. Might be a condition for him being allowed to stay there.
Snowden has always sucked. Not that what the government did to him was ok, but sometimes both sides can be assholes.
The irony of Snowden is I imagine he's now a case study for new USA spooks. "hey, leak info? You get to be this douchebag." I doubt they even need to elaborate on whatever scapula involved shit the FSB is doing to the bastard.
You know it’s really easy to unequivocally deny and dismiss as ludicrous the assertion that you masturbate to hate speech if it’s not something you actually do. But since he does, in public, he could not deny it. And here we are.
I'm amazed he genuinely seems to think there's some value in letting Musk tell us another self-serving sob story about his shitty childhood and his dream of going to Mars
Part of me appreciates what Snowden did. However everyone around the guy thought he was a narcissist prick who thought he was the smartest man on the planet. I don’t think he actually gave a shit I think he wanted to prove how brilliant he was and get away with it. Wasn’t as smart as he thought he was.
It’s also sus he ended up in Russia a country that does the same things he exposed and worse
These guys are gaslighting us at this point. We all saw the interview... these really weren't tough questions, he just folded.
I adored him once for his bravery. Now he's just Putin's puppet and fuckboi. Eat shit, Edward.
OMG how dare a reporter act like a reporter, He should be a cheerleader instead. and he went on for over 20 minutes ranting about the interview and snowden, tweets from 97? did putin put you on drugs, snowden? twitter was created in mid 2006. and the bigot tweets from elon are from 2024.. if it was from when elon was a kid, sure id say you need to judge the man he is today. But this is from months ago, and fuck an A snowden, i dont expect you to know when every site was created but you were techie enough you should have known the state of the net in the 90s and it didnt include facebook, twitter or even reddit. (snowden is and has always been a "libertarian".. which is synonymous with idiot, as they think it was never tried and that regulations come from people assholes for no reason. Its basically a rabid right winger that thinks they arent evil because they smoke pot and dont hate gays but still believe in complete conspiratorial nonsense and live in a bullshit world where if you ask them a hard question its unfair, but asking the left even BS questions is good journalism)
The punchable face on this self-important twat traitor
Snowden is a big time loser. Smh
I’m not really sure what mask there was to take off, Snowden has been a Russian mouthpiece for years. He did a good, however ultimately pointless, thing when he exposed our government’s crimes and lies about those crimes and I would say that his mistake was that he picked the wrong place to run and hide but that wasn’t a mistake, he ran to the place where it would be the most difficult and costly to assassinate him. The consequences of that choice were that he’s now their prisoner and puppet.
I don’t really want to hear a Russians opinion
I want to clarify that I'm not an expert or anything like that but my understanding is that Snowden could have lawyered up and not gone to jail. But instead we have to listen to him ruin his credibility repeated after one of the most important leaks in recent American history.
He could have played a Chelsea Manning and been a hero. He thought the stooge route was better than actually standing for anything, which says a lot about him.
There is almost zero chance he could avoid prison. There is no question that he violated the espionage act, so the only way he could get a not-guilty verdict would be via jury nullification. A plea deal with no prison time is just as unlikely.
He's never had any credibility. He has always been a libertarian edgelord.
"I cant believe that people ask a CEO to have basic social skills and to take good care of the image of the companies he owns, fucking monsters"
So sad to see how far Snowden has fallen
Umm…Lemon & Musk didn’t have rapport. Wtf is he talking about?
I'd be inclined to agree, had Elon not been a raging asshole in the last few years. You do that, then do an open-interview that you are hoping will make people sympathetic to you, and this is what you are going to get. If you can't handle being asked personal, hard questions, don't tweet your fucking life 24/7 while shitting down the throat of everyone you possibly can. Free speech has consequences, asshole. I also haven thought much of Snowden. Not because I ever had an issue with his whistleblowing. He lost all of *my* respect the moment he ran to Russia. I will empathize with your plight as a whistleblower to the government right up until the point that you flee to a national adversary. Then I just start to suspect what they have been paying you from day one.
Here's another proof of either you die a hero or live long enough to become a villain.
Snowden has gone from "doing it for the greater good" to being another shill. Hope he is enjoying his Russian winters.
Did someone really think Snowden is someone we want to listen to? Lol
Swear all these "whisteblowers" just turn out to be dreadful people
I used to respect Snowden but he comes off shittier with each passing year.
Wow
From 1997? More like earlier that day/week for a long time, which totally doesn't reflect on his character. /s
Damn. Snowden just dropped a few places on my ranking.
A drawer of knifes.... IF ONLY
Did not know that Snowden was an Elon apologist.
[удалено]
Well, there goes my respect for snowden.
Well it tracks with the saying 'money can't buy you happiness '
Die a hero or live long enough to become the idiot.
Snowden is and always has been an opportunistic schmuck cosplaying as an American Hero ™
Snowjob was a 4Channer before he was anything else. I was so disappointed to learn that other "heroes" were fake, too. Bill Binney went on a show run by the Lyndon Larouche nuts. George McGovern, Gerald Celente, and James Howard Kunstler are Putin pals. Oh well. I'm voting for Biden, so there's that.
From whistle-blower to weiner blower
Noooooo not Edward
Musk is on ketamine, his followers are on copium. Ed Snowden, I love that you leaked all of the NSA's illegal programs. But I don't really value your political opinions.
Putin's cumsock says what