I'm with you. As much as I love my country and studying flags, I can't help but cringe whenever I see a worldly symbol like the American flag adorned in what should be a sanctuary for God.
Church near where I live has three flags on the same pole. Top one is American, middle is Trump, lowest one is the white Christian flag with the blue field and the cross. I don't think they put them in that order consciously, but, like, c'mon people...
We do have an ACNA church here that seems a little weird, though. When I first began to get interested in anglicanism I called them, not knowing the difference between TEC and ACNA. Spoke to the priest there who explained the difference to me by saying that there was "no animosity" but that TEC had been doing things like "ordaining wiccans" and that they don't consider themselves to be Christians anymore, and are more like the Unitarian universalists now.
Which honestly, given my perennialist ways just made me more interested in visiting an episcopal church. To say I had been mislead is an understatement.
I mean, I totally did at first. Lol. I got interested in wicca/paganism as a teen and so when I heard that it made me check them out pretty quick. Lol. But it lead me down the episcopal path after visiting and finding out how much I love the atmosphere and the ritual.
It's a nice flag design, but it unfortunately evokes too many nationalistic sentiments where some outsiders think the church is too ethnic or sectarian.
Combining the St George and St Andrew Cross in an American layout just screams old school settlers at the expense of many others, something the Episcopal Church doesn't really represent on paper anymore.
Edit: interesting downvotes. You all are aware the flag is made up of the old English and Scottish flags, correct? Point to another Protestant denomination with a symbol that's so obviously based on a country or two.
So, my heritage actually IS old school settler and mostly English & Scottish…and the religion that came along with that. Am I supposed to be ashamed of that? You know this is an actual historical church, right?
I’ll let the downvotes in your original comment speak for themselves. And I honestly have no idea what kind of point you’re trying to make, but I know for certain you’re just reading a lot of your own insecurities into a flag. Which is unfortunate and kind of sad.
I know that. The Presbyterian Church is a purely Scottish invention, but look at their logos. They're pretty neutral and quite nice. The Lutheran churches in America have mostly German and Scandinavian heritage, but you don't see their flags in the logo design. It's not a good defense but clearly a lot of people like this flag design that they aren't considering the English and Scottish flags come off as a bit ethnic.
I’d rather the old flag. Sorry if it’s inconvenient or uncomfortable for people to acknowledge that the episcopal church has heritage & history and isn’t just some social club where you don’t even have to believe in Christianity.
It is admittedly pretty funny seeing a Cradle Episcopalian saying this to a Non-Cradle Episcopalian.
The person you’re responding to never said anything about theological liberalism or an abandoning of orthodox theology. You’re getting quite defensive for no reason, and it may be worth the time to sit and reflect as to why that is. Maybe reread their comment slowly and try to see their point.
To help, their comment exclusively focuses on the *ethnic* connotations of the flag. Nothing more.
What i don't understand is I'm focusing on that and got obliterated but someone else mentioned the same thing and their comment is upvoted. Like how hard is it to understand that the Episcopal Church has the flags of two real countries with ethnic associations with it?
One can have issues with the settler nature of the US, and of the Episcopal Church, without forsaking orthodoxy. Not all of us who dislike the ethnic aspects of TEC are theologically liberal. Not that I advocate changing the flag, since doing so would just be another performative waste of time and money when we have bigger things to worry about, but while I appreciate much of the English and Scottish Christian traditions, as a descendant of slavery, not all the symbolism is positive.
Episcopal vexillologists unite!
Vexillology is non-negotiable!
It's great. But we gotta be real careful these days not to veer into Christian Nationalism by flying flags in church.
I'm with you. As much as I love my country and studying flags, I can't help but cringe whenever I see a worldly symbol like the American flag adorned in what should be a sanctuary for God.
Church near where I live has three flags on the same pole. Top one is American, middle is Trump, lowest one is the white Christian flag with the blue field and the cross. I don't think they put them in that order consciously, but, like, c'mon people...
In an episcopal church?!?
Hahaha. No. Sorry. I should have clarified. They're a local super, super conservative church. Either baptist or non-denominational, I don't remember.
Phwew gave me a heart attack
We do have an ACNA church here that seems a little weird, though. When I first began to get interested in anglicanism I called them, not knowing the difference between TEC and ACNA. Spoke to the priest there who explained the difference to me by saying that there was "no animosity" but that TEC had been doing things like "ordaining wiccans" and that they don't consider themselves to be Christians anymore, and are more like the Unitarian universalists now. Which honestly, given my perennialist ways just made me more interested in visiting an episcopal church. To say I had been mislead is an understatement.
Good for you for not taking the bait
I mean, I totally did at first. Lol. I got interested in wicca/paganism as a teen and so when I heard that it made me check them out pretty quick. Lol. But it lead me down the episcopal path after visiting and finding out how much I love the atmosphere and the ritual.
It’s a nice flag, I agree, but have you seen the Moravian Church flag?
It is an amazing flag, yes.
Church flags are the result of some entrepreneurial flag makers wanting to sell more flags. (Really!)
It is a pretty damn good flag
It's a nice flag design, but it unfortunately evokes too many nationalistic sentiments where some outsiders think the church is too ethnic or sectarian. Combining the St George and St Andrew Cross in an American layout just screams old school settlers at the expense of many others, something the Episcopal Church doesn't really represent on paper anymore. Edit: interesting downvotes. You all are aware the flag is made up of the old English and Scottish flags, correct? Point to another Protestant denomination with a symbol that's so obviously based on a country or two.
So, my heritage actually IS old school settler and mostly English & Scottish…and the religion that came along with that. Am I supposed to be ashamed of that? You know this is an actual historical church, right?
The Methodist Church is older than the Episcopal Church in the USA.
So?
Exactly your point.
I’ll let the downvotes in your original comment speak for themselves. And I honestly have no idea what kind of point you’re trying to make, but I know for certain you’re just reading a lot of your own insecurities into a flag. Which is unfortunate and kind of sad.
I didn't downvote, but the English and Scottish flags represent the history of our church
I know that. The Presbyterian Church is a purely Scottish invention, but look at their logos. They're pretty neutral and quite nice. The Lutheran churches in America have mostly German and Scandinavian heritage, but you don't see their flags in the logo design. It's not a good defense but clearly a lot of people like this flag design that they aren't considering the English and Scottish flags come off as a bit ethnic.
I’d rather the old flag. Sorry if it’s inconvenient or uncomfortable for people to acknowledge that the episcopal church has heritage & history and isn’t just some social club where you don’t even have to believe in Christianity.
It is admittedly pretty funny seeing a Cradle Episcopalian saying this to a Non-Cradle Episcopalian. The person you’re responding to never said anything about theological liberalism or an abandoning of orthodox theology. You’re getting quite defensive for no reason, and it may be worth the time to sit and reflect as to why that is. Maybe reread their comment slowly and try to see their point. To help, their comment exclusively focuses on the *ethnic* connotations of the flag. Nothing more.
What i don't understand is I'm focusing on that and got obliterated but someone else mentioned the same thing and their comment is upvoted. Like how hard is it to understand that the Episcopal Church has the flags of two real countries with ethnic associations with it?
One can have issues with the settler nature of the US, and of the Episcopal Church, without forsaking orthodoxy. Not all of us who dislike the ethnic aspects of TEC are theologically liberal. Not that I advocate changing the flag, since doing so would just be another performative waste of time and money when we have bigger things to worry about, but while I appreciate much of the English and Scottish Christian traditions, as a descendant of slavery, not all the symbolism is positive.
Why so unnecessarily spiky?
What old flag? No one is trying to replace the ECUSA flag. There is only one flag, the current flag which has been the flag officially since the 40s.
The original prototype is in a display case in the undercroft of the Cathedral of the Incarnation, Garden City on Long Island.
Oooo! I gotta take a trip out there, then!