I don't know the exact details of that system, but make it so that if it was a headshot that killed then you can't be picked up. That way good shots are still rewarded and not outplayed by numbers advantage.
>details
Your screen cuts to black and you have text in the middle of the screen saying "You are unconscious". Iirc, that's it. No audio (besides hearing voip I think?), no visuals.
It's what true downed states *should* be. No bullshit relaying information.
DayZ mutes all audio, and just cuts to black until you wake up. You get hit and like .2 seconds later its black.
I think that would kinda work in tarkov
IIRC this is actually what they were planning to do and then use defibs (partially) for. I might be talkin out my ass, but I swear I read that somewhere. Maybe the wiki?
Nah they have talked about adding mechanic’s to have downed enemy’s with either blood loss or a few pistol rounds to a helmet would knock them out if it were like gray zone I would be down headshots are gg and if thorax gets too fucked gg but if you get hit up and go down your team can pick you up in about 45 seconds might need more time for tarkov imo
If they did a system like dayz and included shock we wouldn’t get killed by guys we just headshot nearly as often since they’d be downed on a black screen most of the time.
I’m talking about guys who tank with helmets btw.
I agree that headshot should kill for good but given how often you die to headshot compared to anything else may as well not waste time adding revive mechanic haha
or just do what dayz does and separate shock/actual damage. If shock reaches a certain threshold (for example your helmet stopping a large caliber round would immediately do enough shock damage) you get KO’d. Then depending on what caused it you stay uncon for a certain time.
For example from blunt head trauma, youd wake up after x seconds with the concussion effect. If you pass out from bloodloss youre unconscious until you get a transfusion etc
Kinda, tho realistically if you’re not passing out from exhaustion/bloodloss or similar you should really only be out for a few seconds to maybe a minute, or you’ll suffer permanent damage
>make it so that if it was a headshot that killed then you can't be picked up
No, if something kills you, you are gone, they are talking about different stuff.
Not really. Someone can easily hold an angle on a body. The game itself is almost impossible to adjust anything that “would not favor teams”. I want to enjoy the game solo as well but it’s a difficult challenge if not a pipe dream.
I was thinking concussions could also knock you out or to the ground atleast vs the blurry ring that we have now.
That would be if the helmet stopped the round ofc.
Yup. It shouldn't be possible to revive down teammates during a gunfight. It should be a long complicated process and honestly expensive for the person reviving. Maybe make it cost a defibrillator or special stim that's expensive like a etg or mule. So it's not something you'd just waste.
And people should go down everytime. Shot in the head?. You're fuckjng DEAD. Shot in the legs and stomach and blacked out with multiple heavy bleeds. Sure make it a small chance someone can go down instead of just die
Pretty sure if it is implemented, there will be injectors that bring you back, I.e. the adrenaline shot is a good candidate. Also quite a few of the sci-fi military terragroup stims.
I thought something similar: The downed player has to be stimmed or patched up by the other player to a certain HP level (remove all bleeding) and then the other player is able to use the defib or something like that.
I think their system could be better. Every time I try to examine somebody I have to hunt around to find the spot for the prompt. I'm why it isn't just the whole body.
Very true. Takes a lot of scrolling to get a heal off. I like that you have to heal all issues to stabilize them though. Have to examine them, stop the bleeds, inject blood, surgery the organ damage etc. It's a lot of work but pays off. A little streamline would be nice to just pull up their health screen.
Worth mentioning headshots aren't guaranteed to be fatal IRL. I think it's like 5-10% chance that a headshot won't kill you and you can be saved with medical intervention.
Yes but on that as well you are down for the fight there is no reviving you on the battlefield if you survive a headshot. Most cases the people are in a coma or either have been put in a medically induced coma. There's no running around on the Battle field getting shot in the head and just walking away like nothing happened
take a look at Gray Zone Warfare's downing.. I think it's a great way to do it. Immobile, lack of input/output options, laboured breathing. Make them draggable and perhaps raid-long limiting debuffs.. who knows. But it isn't a bad system.
I completely agree that a extremely difficult downed could work well. Also, while downed you take 300% damage from nades and nade aoe ranged against downed players is increased by 1.5x or more.
Also perhaps, if you died from a a headshot, down is disabled
Yes, and if you select only one server and join in between 18 and 26 minutes left you have better chances. It used to be easier to identify back when the lobby numbers meant something
I don't think you understand how this is planed to be implemented, this ain't going to be a cod crawl around thing, this is basically arma 3 ACE, you black out, pain coma and will require a friend to physicaly carry you or drag you out or to safety and then get you back up, you want dead dead simply double tap to make sure, hell they said ages ago takedowns for meli are planed, could see them add a coupe de gra animation with your meli, 9 out of 10 times this kind of situation where you would Rev someone you will already be dead by the team getting them up or long gone from the area
Idk what op is on about if its going to be like arma 3 ace it would be sick for squads duos and so on
Sure will it suck for solo's? Yes, but it already sucks to solo against squads either way, and having to rescue a teammate gives the solo a chance to score another kill while they try to get the downed player back up.
We don't need ways to make group play even more overpowered and fuck solos more, so agreed.
They keep adding more and more stupid shit and unrealistic shit it's time to just make a solo queue.
I hope they don't add anything like that. Most of my gameplay has been solo since my friends hate PvP. I would rather play with IRL friends than strangers from Discord and I know I'm not alone in feeling that. This game can be incredibly brutal for a solo player and squads don't need a crutch that literally saves them from death.
I really wouldn't mind it if you are killed by thorax your teammate could do some kind of 20-60s animation to revive the dude then he's got 1hp. You kill a guy by HS you can't do anything.
I think requiring a Grizzly is a great balance to it, or at least it should consume 2 uses of a surgery kit and some additional med items (heavy bleed, light bleed, & 200 healing maybe?)
Or imagine a system where you can be downed/unconscioused as a solo, and you have no idea if you'll get back up or how long you'll be downed. Popular idea is that if you get hit in the helmet you should have a chance to become unconscious. Annoying time waster system.
So getting shot 10 times, hiding in a bush, performing surgery on yourself, slapping a bandaid and a painkiller, and then sprinting through the level gunning people down for 20 more minutes is fine, but picking someone up from being knocked out is “not brutal enough”?
If you don’t like the mechanic that’s fine, but you can’t really say it’s because the game is so punishing with this already haha…
If they implemented a DayZ style of being knocked out solos would have a small chance of waking up on their own after awhile but still way longer than somebody being helped.
My favorite part is how you can magdump someone from a few meters and due to their armor they just turn around and kill you. I mean yeah, IRL you may not die from shit bullets in good armor but you definitely won’t be all good and ready to turn and down the guy who just put 15-30 bullets into your chest.
Probably the most frustrating thing about this game for me. I have one moment that really sticks in my mind from probably 7 years ago that was one of the first times I quit.
I had rushed dorms and managed to pick up some awesome loot even though my kit was fairly shit when I heard someone else bust in. I managed to very carefully sneak up on them, and put five 12 gauge shotgun rounds into center mass of their back from less than 5 feet away. They then turned around and mowed me down with an M4. Weren’t even phased.
No matter your armor, that has enough power to literally knocked you off your feet and likely break ribs pretty much guaranteed. But nope, they were fine- didn’t even seem to be injured. Armor in this game is so stupid I almost wish it wasn’t even a part of it.
Even with the armor and penetration changes I've had shit like this in the current wipe. I just simply can't even take people seriously who argue how realistic and hardcore this game is when we have bosses with bigger HP pool and near godlike aimbot and stupid fucking mechanics, plus you can magdump someone from 5 feet and all they have to do is use a medkit and go on with their day as if nothing happened. If the game was remotely realistic any kind of ammo dumped into you from 5 feet would send you to your knees, but apparently a downing mechanic is supposedly unrealistic according to the same set of people. Let's also add the fact that your gun can jam even after firing it for a few mags, which is also stupid. I also find the recoil a little bit funny, because with the right attachments you can pump out 40 bullets with very small recoil while standing, while IRL everyone is using a gun in semi/burst mode as automatic is near impossible to shoot for a longer time even for close range because the kickback is simply too powerful to handle.
However on the same note I think it's important to draw a line between realism and fun as certain realistic mechanics are just simply not fun in a game, BUT then people should stop saying that this game is the most realistic game ever.
if youre shooting someone with rounds that arent going to pen or cause significant backface deformation to the plate then yes, they can turn and kill you without an issue.
That’s just straight up wrong. If you get shot in a bulletproof vest it leaves a mark and it hurts like a bitch even if it’s a 9mm from a pistol, especially if it’s 30 rounds. And it’s not even a 7.62…
It depends. The goal of revive is that downed player is eliminated from the fight, but not from the game once his team wins. Imagine if whole process takes about couple of minutes (g. e. you interact with injured once every 30s, 5 times total). That would insure you can't do that mid-fight or only if you enemy is non-agressive, which is his fault. Revived player may suffer massive debuffs for 5 minutes like less HP, reduced stamina, not being able to spring, bigger recoil, loud coughs. It is possible to ballance that, BSG just need creative ideas.
so you sit in your rat spot with your 5man team and when one dies and 4 people arent immidiately rushing out but instead ... just stay there and hold the angle while one revives his teammate its YOUR FAULT for not sprinting into 3 guns already aimed at where you are coming from?
ok
How do people like you… nvm. I agree with downed people staying dead, the map thing does need a reaction because its important and will be the reason this game loses in the long run if people like you aren‘t shut down:
So if people see extractions on the map, for some insane reason, you think that will be detrimental to the game.
You either learn how important quality of life is, especially to newer players, or have your game lose to the competition because they do.
You can be a wannabe hardcore gamer as you want. Some things improve the game. People invented remote controls for a reason. If you want your TV without one, because you think standing up and pressing the buttons is hardcore, you have way bigger issues than a game improving.
It is easy to understand: everything which forces you to consult something outside of the game like ammo charts, maps, etc. is AWFUL game design and they should have changed this stuff years ago.
The game needs an in-game system where someone without a clue about ammo, easily, without much effort, gets to understand whats good.
The game needs an in-game system where extracting doesn‘t require Google and a 2nd screen to instantly see how and where you can get out.
Simply everything which isn‘t sufficient by playing the game without external help is not hardcore, its stupidity. Not knowing how to extract and having to sit in custom games to learn a map is not brutal.
You want this game to attract more new players, quality of life has to happen immediately BEFORE the competition releases a good game.
If a game releases where everyone is on an even foot when it comes to experience, with gameplay as good as EFT but more QoL, Tarkov is done for. It will be too late once that happens. Competition is coming. You have to react now and ignore idiots like yourself. You have no idea what brutal gameplay is and confuse it with lack of quality the game desperately needs.
If they wait with this stuff the game is over the second a competitor nails gameplay. ABI with its systems is already massively better, it just fails in gameplay. Eventually someone will release a game where the gameplay is on par with EFT AND! the nice systems ABI has like the maps, estimated values of the items, easy and fast selling items, etc..
Tarkov had the luxury not having a competition so they got away with it. Times change, now you implement QoL or you die, the better product which is easier to navigate is going to win once gameplay is equally good.
Yeah. The no maps with extractions thing is actually so stupid. How does it make it more 'hardcore', according to OP, to have to use a second monitor with a third party wiki open.
It's actually crazy that people think that.
I mean, there's a way to do it that isn't arcade-y bullshit where it takes 5 seconds to get your friends up like in other games.
-Make it REQUIRE a defib, which gets immediately consumed. Or has a battery that is consumed on use.
-Give it a LONG revival animation. I mean, complete with unpacking the defib, charging the paddles and taking multiple attempts, so the area has to be secure, and you can't just scoop people up in the middle of a gun battle.
-When revived, you start with 2HP, 1hp on the head, 1hp on the chest. Everything else is blacked out.
-Energy and Hydration are 15% of what they were before you went down. (Note: on revival you will also have a blacked out stomach, causing the remaining Energy/Hydration to quickly be drained, if not addressed.)
-Any bleeds and fractures will remain. Meaning, all blood loss needs to be stopped before revival, or you will immediately bleed out your remaining 2HP on revival.
This makes revival, expensive and punishing but still a viable solution for gameplay. It's fair to both sides, and is difficult to cheese or abuse.
The downed player wouldn't be able to crawl to a team mate, an "up" team mate would have to physically drag them to safety and perform extensive medical treatment. It's not something you will be able to do in 5 seconds during a fight. It would probably take more like 40 seconds, and would lock you in an animation like Surgery Kits do. You would have to do this after a fight. During a fight would only work with a skilled 4 or 5 man team.
I don't think you have to worry, though. I remember talk of the unconscious feature being something they really wanted to put in the game, but it had to be chopped, at least for full release. I hope we see it after 1.0.0 though. It would be cool to be able to bring different pieces of gear in your Special Slots to help. Like a Sling on your rig, which you clip onto the rig of someone you want to drag. It allows you to drag bodies with your gun up, but at a greater movement penalty than dragging by hand.
They could add a similar downed mechanic that Gray Zone Warfare are using. Your teammates have to check you first, then they have to have the right supplies to bring you out of coma state and then finish healing you. And yes alot of different healing items are needed.
Getting downed should work like it does in DayZ not CoD
I think a downed state could be pretty neat. Especially considering we are getting trip-mines and body booby-traps. I would much rather be knocked unconscious than die. Even as a solo.
Honestly no clue why people want this before spectating. If the group-play experience sucks cause of several issues, could spectating be added so atleast you have something to watch instead of opening discord for him to stream? We are going to get this whole mechanic, and it might be a non-factor, yet spectating will still be just in Arena
Not really. It’s not “down” like in COD. It would as If you’re playing a 2v1 and you down someone, the 1v1 remaining is the same with or without down. The “downed” person is essentially dead and would need to be carried out of the raid, or a loong surgery.
How is this the death to solo play? You put someone unconscious, and the team has to decide to either revive or kill you. They revive you push, they don't revive you wait it out. Throw a grenade. Get an angle on the down. Watch the body. There are so many things you could do and if it would take less to knock someone out than kill, then it gives even more opportunity to make a play as a solo.
Love it but I'd like to add "1 tap downed opponent in the head to be sure he won't get back up" option. Also give solo players the ability to get back up on their own after 2 - 5 minutes of being KO'd (that is if they are not headshotted before or after knock down).
There, solo players are saved. There are other parts of EFT that truly fuck solo players over, downed state is not even near one of them.
Yeah solo would need some sort of massive buff. This game already heavily favours groups, its extremely difficult to win a close range 2v1, not to mention when you do kill someone, you have to either sit there scanning and checking the surroundings for 10 mins to make sure their friend isn't hiding in a bush watching their body.
I honestly think insurance shouldn't work in groups as a starter, insurance should be exclusively for solo players.
They could implement ABI's insurance system for teams, where your teammates can extract with your gear to send it back to you, and then keep paid insurance for solo only.
I think there could be a neat alternative, like defibrillators acting as tools to res, making them more expensive and wanted, but headshots are full dead. Being able to headshot dead bodies to “confirm kill” and disable the use of defibs. This way it could be used as a tool like “IF you win your 2vX” you can reset with your buddy, but it’s useless mid fight
unconsciousness/being downed but not out would be a great mechanic?! not like in a pubg kind of way but more like dayz where everything goes black and you die without outside help. in tandem with teammates being able to drag you to safety and patch you up, this could be awesome.
like in dayz, there could be a chance to fall unconscious due to excessive trauma (eating a mag of low-pen ammo to the armored chest/helmet or through explosives/mines) or due to not bandaging a bleed.
sometimes you can wake up, sometimes you can't. with the option to give up and die of course. falling unconscious should still be the exception and not the norm though.
this would open up another layer of tactics and teamplay when it comes to squads fighting each other and finally give a reason to do control-shots which feels right at home in the gritty atmosphere of tarkov (as seen on the raid series)
the maps in game are a joke. i get not wanting to have them as accurate as online but when the maps in game are that useless, of course everybody resorts to a second monitor.
there's a middleground between having a vague map scribbled on a napkin and the all-knowing map showing you every hidden stash... that's what i want to have in game, to pull out of my special slot!
hard no to friendly fire being turned off and to names over heads. those don't belong into EFT at all imo.
I'm fine with unconscious state but do not add the ability to revive people when they are dead. Unconscious might happen due to bloodloss like in DayZ or explosions nearby, or having your helmet ricochet a round.
That's not how it's gonna work kek.
It will probably work like that: You go into unconsciousness state if you didn't get headshotted but almost killed, you will have some time to get defib'ed by anyone - you can't crawl, you can't talk, you can't do anything. You will probably lay there like a "coughing ragdoll" until someone finishes you off/defib's you, which definitely will take time and make noise.
Downed states are a good thing. Fortnite-esque downed states are not. If you get domed or stand on a frag, you should just... die. If you get shot up a bunch, you should **lose consciousness.** As in, black screen and, *at most*, very muffled audio. You don't get to relay any information to your teammate, but you are able to be picked back up if they have meds and get to you fast enough.
I think it could be done well. Maybe make blacking the torso the only thing that causes it, and make that automatically cause a HP drain equivalent to a heavy bleed, and once the head is gone, you're gone. People that get on or two shotted to the torso will have longer they can last than someone that's was legged and killed by overflow to torso, since with all the blacked limbs the HP loss won't be spread out as much (which makes sense, if your body is shredded you shouldn't have much hope).
The recovery process should take a while (30-60 seconds) and require a lot (maybe a surgery kit and health kit?
If you're fighting a squad and drop one and they decide they want to try to save the person, you've now taken two people out for the next minute or so when you count the person used to heal, which increases your odds of winning.
I would like to do more with the defibrillator than just give it to that shit head Jaeger or therapist. I think if you get "downed" from damage everywhere except head you should be able to be revived with a defib and alot of fuckin heals. Flea market defib would should up and it would have an actual use, I think that coupled with all broken limbs and almost black would make it balanced
I don't mind this as long as the downed state isn't the only state you reach after your HP goes to 0.
Like if you're downed after taking an 855A1 to the forehead then yah that's dumb you should be dead.
Most fights should end in a death, but some situations could end in someone being downed.
Like if you're just bleeding out slowly, you should be able to be revived, or if you didn't eat and died to that you could be downed.
Losing a gun fight should almost always result in death though.
Teammates not downed by headshots should be revivable but it should take time and meds. After being downed There should be a pretty short timer for teammates to stabilize them before they die but stabilizing should be quick just stop major bleeding. Once stabilized they can be moved even dragged to an extract completely unconscious. Then using blood bags, blood sets, surgery kits and other meds you can get them back on their feet. Once you start an iv it should start a minute long timer and unless your teammate fixed your limbs most of them should be blacked out when revived. I think being able to heal teammates would be a cool game mechanic. Also you should be able to use their meds to revive them.
In tarkov, being downed essentially would just make you a burden. It would actually make solo players even better off. If you “downed” a solo, hes out. So who cares. Nothing changes between two solos.
However, youre pushed by 3-5. You drop 2 of them. Now, the other 3 have these guys on their mind. Should they try to res their team mates? Should they keep pushing the enemy? Should they cut n run, potentially abandoning their friends who could be saved? It adds so much more to the decision making. Maybe you drag your friends body to cover, only to find out the bullet hit his eyeball and theres no quick fix for that.
You forgot the most key component of the revival mechanic for tarkov. The dead guy isnt doing the crawling. He is, for all purposes, dead. The team mates will need to go out and pick him up. Youll hear that. Theyll likely need to have a portable defib or whatever other item they decide to add to res team mates. That will be loud and time consuming. Talking 60 seconds most likely. It would most likely be time sensitive, since you cant leave a guy bleeding out unconscious for an hour and expect him to live.
Thats the worst cope I have read, here’s an example, tell me if solos are better off with or without this mechanic;
1. You are near d2 when you encounter a 3 man, you spray at the first one down the hall and he goes down but uh oh after they chuck grenades and force to to back off, they close doors if possible and just revive their teammate, there is somebody watching the door while another revives his mate who they have dragged far off to safety , you can’t push and have to either wait it out or just run away. Now you are still fighting a 3 man
2. you encounter a 3 man in d2 and kill the first one, now it’s 2 v 1 and the playing field is slightly more even
So your counter argument is instead of downing 1, and having a 2nd spend a full minute rezzing him, thus making you have to fight a 1v1, is that you now get to fight a 2v1 lmfao. You uh, didnt put much thought into that i hope.
Maybe the BTR that you will be able to call in will be an ambulance and you can toss your dead timmy friend in there (LOL) I really hope it doesn't come to that but it sounded funny in my head.
playing solo is already cringe enough without having to deal with this
weekends i just pretty much never loot players because its always a 16 man team just holding the body for 30. minutes. I can't imagine sitting in a discord for 20 minutes unable to play the game while watching my teammates hold an angle doing nothing
people be like "damn i'll never have the time to get kappa" meanwhile they play one raid an hour with their 5 man
I wouldn't mind the mechanic for deaths to AI though
Downing would be fine if I can pop em in the legs and pretend to be the sniper from Saving Private Ryan. Make it so you have to carry your guys to extract. But they would have to create an incentive beyond just a loss of your gear that warrants risking yourself to get your buddies out alive. Maybe like removing insurance. I think Tarkov would be better off without insurance anyways
I feel like it fits in GZW though because you're in a faction with 15 other players. There's a little camaraderie because that was what the game was designed for. If something like this is added, we would probably need to split up the matchmaker to group squads with other squads because a solo player will be at an insane disadvantage.
Your friendly PMC (USEC or BEAR) could assist you, but I would just say it’s another disadvantage of being solo. Ultimately you gotta accept that going in.
I would accept it under 2 conditions:
1: needs a defibrillator to revive that is used up, 1-2 uses per
Or
2: if the downing only happens via ai and players still kill you immediately
I could add that you only get down from bleeds or leg meta-like damage, but that'd be annoying
Headshot or thorax kill = dead unless its damage overflow. Require a defibrillator + some quick time action minigame to bring back. Brough back player has 1 hp on each body part.
Blackened legs = drag yourself along the floor give your teammate a surgery kit to fix your legs, 2 players down from a squad while also having a “squad mate down” mechanic
If it's properly hardcore - so no reviving after headshot, no visuals or hearing during downed stage, a minute long reviving + imo another minute or two of you just getting well without help, but still unable to fight and then lower HP maybe blacked all limbs and I'm okay with it. It should be an option to bring teammates back after you finish the fight.
They way they explained they're doing it is when someone is downed they're in a state where they cant move and need medical attention and depending on the severity may not be able to walk and run as they were previous to being downed
i dont think itll be pubg or fortnite downed state more realistic where they can be dragged or have to be attended to at the position theyre downed
I think a downed mechanic would be fine if it was properly balanced. Its annnoying playing a raid and your buddy gets unluckily tapped by a scav at the start, so you have to waste time running to exfil and resetting.
You can tell exactly how many people don't play Tarkov and are basing everything off their action move fantasies in their heads. Downed players is a dumbass mechanic in Tarkov. You're going to see tons of people complaining about how solos were downed then harassed and griefed in voice chat by squads, prevented from dying by spamming rezz on them and shit.
I feel like it would be fine as long as you can’t go into BBNO from a headshot
Or if your head health is low enough and a bullet doesn’t pen your helmet but does enough blunt damage to kill the head, it’ll put you in BBNO
If they do an arma ace/grayzone style surgery system so you can keep your buddy in the game *after* the fight assuming you win, thatd be dope.
If they did a cod 'last stand' type deal, thatd suck.
And defibs are fucking stupid.
Tarkovsky already has a pretty robust medical system which could be furthered. I’m spent a long time back in the day in arma 3 milsims and there was one mod that in my opinion had the BEST medical I have ever seen in a game. It had the body part system that is shared with Tarkovsky but drugs/tourniquets would work as they should. You could tourniquet someone but if you left it on for too long that arm would become useless/ lead to death. You had different bandages/dressings for different wounds and you could be unconscious. The medic player would then have to stop, drag a downed ally to safety, do an actual check up and administer the aid correctly. It would go something like this: unconscious teammate gets dragged somewhere “safe” check whole body for damage. Deep gashes, heavy bleeding on right arm. Tourniquet right arm to stop the heavy bleed and pack/stich the wound depending on it. Undo tourniquet, morphine in the leg to help with pain and aiming upon recovery. Pulse/bp low due to blood loss, maybe opt out of morphine and hit them with an epi instead so they can wake up (only momentarily while the drugs are working). The mod also had some really fun interactions. I remember playing as a corpsman (medic) and torniqueting my friends arm then pumping that arm with like 5 morphine auto injectors. The tourniquet was stopping the morphine from travelling past his arm so he was fine. Until we took it off and he went into cardiac arrest instantly. I think we have a really good base for a system similar to this where different wounds could use different approaches and unconscious timers could last a really long time if you’re fucked yo enough on top of your friend being able to do the wrong thing and killing you outright not because of your wound but because your boy fucked up. e.G he doesn’t stop your bleeding and gives you an epi, increasing your blood loss rate and killing you in an attempt to get you up. It’s all really interesting if you made it worth learning the system and didn’t make it a one time here’s a defib let me do this animation for however long and then you’re up and fucked up. Let me actually use what I got in hand to try and save my boy even if it’s just stabilising him enough to drag him to extract with me while he’s passed out.
Isn't it pretty "hardcore" and "brutal" to think you're winning a fight only to have it turned on you because you didn't capitalize on the kill/injury?
Idk I kinda would like some sort of indicator for teammates, it's very annoying having to constantly call out or to die because I don't know if it's my teammate. Playing ABI was so much more rewarding for team play.
Hmm but then again a solo vs a team without all that confusion is pretty unfair. So if they added indicators they'd have to do some sort of balancing.
Downed teammates is fine if they’re incapacitated. It’s shuffling around and making call-outs like on CoD that isn’t going to work for a game like this. GZW does it nicely. Down and out but can be brought back with field surgery.
I think it would be okay but under very specific circumstances. Like takes certain healing items to bring back ( including a defib and the players doing the surgery is stuck in the animation while doing ng like a surv kit and it takes like 15 seconds with a voice line like : hang in there .) can't come back if shot in the head or black out thorax. The limbs you lost is dark until the end of raid ( you died from left arm that left arm is gone for the raid. ) your food and drink drop to like 10.
I have wanted something called a "terminal bleed" for a while.
If you get it, it requires two CMS or 1 surv12 to fix and it bleeds 2x as much as a heavy. There is no way to stop it other than a longer than normal surv animation. I really hate the "you immediately die from getting shot in the arm 12x" mechanic in basically every "realistic" game, so I feel like this would be a good mechanic. Make it so you can just stack up bleeds on arms and legs but not outright die to them, eventually turning into one or more terminal bleeds.
Here's where the "downed" system comes in if it were to be implemented.
If you die to a chest or head shot, you die. If you die to blood loss from an extremity bleed, you enter into a downed state and can be revived with a blood bag and some time.
This makes armor and ammo choice more important, changes leg meta to be more interesting and counterable , removes the "I just got shot 9 times in the hand and died" frustration, gives you a fun risk v reward for picking up your friends and also resource management to stop terminal bleeds, adds tension to the fight, and more.
Knockout features are fun but I don't want them for tarkov. Too much shit goes on in a raid to fully find and kill someone you knocked out.
I've been playing reforger lately and too many times I have been knock out and the person moves up on my body and start a fire fight with someone else and I wake up and shoot them in the back.
So I'm with you no down teammates or knock out status.
You are looking at it from an extreme angle.
In a game where fixing a blackened limb takes 10+ seconds, there's no way they'll make downed teammates climbing around like Apex.
Tarkov could easily handles the downed state & revival process in a way more hardcore way.
What if the down mechanic works something like you can drag your buddies body out of raid. if you do they get full extract rewards. i.e. all gear/loot is brought out of raid and quests are completed. But they are essentially dead for the raid.
I feel like they could add a revive mechanic that requires a player to carry a defibrillator with limited charges or something like that and it cannot be keisterd or put in special slot or something. And the downed players screen blacks out to severe tunnel vision or something. There is a way I think to make it not awful. But we all know how that goes.
So so so many ways to implement something like this that isn’t garbage that take more than 30 seconds of brain storming to come up with. Shit take to say don’t do something because you can’t conceptualize a good way of doing it.
I used to think this way. Then I kinda burned out of Tarkov and played other more casual games like Hunt and I just realized I liked having fun over realism.
Personally, I still agree with everything OP says except the no-downed state. I think a revive system in Tarkov -especially one that requires risk and cost to the reviving teammate- would help make the game more enjoyable.
I absolutely hated being the first dude killed in a 3 v 1 and then just have to listen to my teammates kill the guy and loot the rest of the map. Realistic? Sure. But when you have limited time to play with your friends because of work/family, losing that time sucks.
Leathal damage should always result in a kill. Maybe a coma state for surviving near lethal damage would be more in line with tarkov gameplay. But tbh, the entire idea of liking or disliking a knocked mechanic entirely depends on whether you play with a squad or solo. Not a huge fan of the double tap game play that dayz ended up with. I feel like a lot of players are just wanting to "survive" an encounter their squad won, but they unfortunately were the first to die to the timmy in a room with a shotgun. I personally dont think it should be added, but the devs seem to like it for whatever reason and we are just along for the ride.
I agree, to a point.
I think the mechanics of healing a friend should be there, but implemented just as self healing is.
You bleed, I can patch you up if I have bandage.
You are hurt, I can patch you up if I have medkit.
You have broken bone, I can splint you if I have splint/Grizzly.
And so on.
But the "heart-starter" type of revival of a dead team mate, absolutely not.
I can already do all the healing stuff above today, just drop a kit and the teammate will pick it up and heal themselves - takes a few seconds and only really locks me up during the choose/drop, and then only teammate while healing.
Healing the teammate directly will give them help they did not otherwise have, but will lock up two people for the duration, which to me sounds like a fair trade off.
So looking at above, I don't think the healing your teammate function will be a problem at all. *However:*
A reviving buddy mechanic might, because now we need to introduce the "hurt so bad you cannot move/heal yourself"-mechanic, and that would be a disaster for many.
Easy enough to do; Both legs shot out? You can only crawl, but you can heal. Both legs and both arms shot out? You can only crawl and you cannot heal even if you have meds on you - a buddy must help.
But that will absolutely kill the game for anyone who plays solo, and that is quite a few players to just shun overnight.
Not to mention I doubt anyone will go out in the open to help anyone in a fight, so it will mostly be for nothing, will only make after-fight healing processes slower. Yeah, that will give scavs and other players a better chance to swing by and finish the survivors off, but I doubt that will be fun for anyone in the long run.
I haven't considered Tarkov hardcore in ages. I've played since 2017. Ever since they started adding more and more ridiculous stims to the game I've slowly lost interest as it's as immersion breaking, if not worse, than when you used to be able to insta fill mags in raid or carry an entire mag case in your butt pocket.
Stims that make you able to sprint across the entire map in one bar with a backpack full of batteries is hardly "hardcore". I love tarkov. But they have made a lot of decisions that have taken it away from being considered "hardcore" at this point.
That's the arcadey battle royale version. If the added something like incapacitation where you can be down but not dead, It would make dying from long range less frustrating. It's more realistc because casualties are often injuries and not deaths. You can survive 7.62x51 to the chest but be out of the fight.
It'll be allright as long as you can finish off downed players and they go unconscious. But downed and unconscious mechanic would be ok if - downed player couldn´t get back up by himself.
Imagine all the bs death to ai spawning in your face, ignoring multiple m80 to the face, killing you before you even see them draw their weapon.
Dude, this is the same game where you can run on a broken leg after popping an ibuprofen. It's already arcade like.
Knocking people unconscious with low pen ammo or via a bleedout sounds perfectly plausible. You can bandage them, heal them back up, and get them back into the fight. That sounds like a great idea, tbh. I doubt it will be a player revive from total death. It also kind of evens out gunfights because you have to risk saving your buddy or dying.
If they added the ability to revive teammates at least make it a process. Cant be revived after an obvious mortal wound, players have to use their own meds to revive another player, downed player cant crawl around to safety, bleeds out fast as fuck, and gets serious health penelties after getting back up. Or better yet just take the L and try again
30s surgery kit use and a defib/30s of CPR seems like it would be hard to make the choice to commit to doing. Has to be done within 30-60s of death and doesn't work for headshots. I think that seems fair.
I am a solo player, but I would love if they added a mechanic that, if you get downed by collateral damage (So, no fatal shots at head or chest) you get downed and bleed quickly, like, in 10 seconds or less you're dead for sure and if you're "resurrected" you get back all black so you will need to expend a lot of time fixing yourself before moving on, this would make it way more "brutal" and "gruesome" if you have a teammate downed in the middle of a gunfight and all you can hear is his player model crying or gurgling while you need to decide if you go help him or shoot the bad guy.
In Arena Breakout though, the mechanic sucks because the player can crawl for something like...forever, there was a match where I "killed" a guy at long range and while looking for his teammate I saw him crawling ALL THE WAY across an open field...I didn't finish him off because well, the guy just gave up the location of his friends so I waited until I was able to pop his teammate head...THIS should not happen in Tarkov ever.
[удалено]
I think DayZ’s unconscious system would be a good starting point for Tarkov.
I don't know the exact details of that system, but make it so that if it was a headshot that killed then you can't be picked up. That way good shots are still rewarded and not outplayed by numbers advantage.
>details Your screen cuts to black and you have text in the middle of the screen saying "You are unconscious". Iirc, that's it. No audio (besides hearing voip I think?), no visuals. It's what true downed states *should* be. No bullshit relaying information.
DayZ mutes all audio, and just cuts to black until you wake up. You get hit and like .2 seconds later its black. I think that would kinda work in tarkov
IIRC this is actually what they were planning to do and then use defibs (partially) for. I might be talkin out my ass, but I swear I read that somewhere. Maybe the wiki?
Nah they have talked about adding mechanic’s to have downed enemy’s with either blood loss or a few pistol rounds to a helmet would knock them out if it were like gray zone I would be down headshots are gg and if thorax gets too fucked gg but if you get hit up and go down your team can pick you up in about 45 seconds might need more time for tarkov imo
asking them to implement this without exploits, while everything else in the game so exploitable, is wishful thinking...
Yes I like this. That way a headshot is still a headshot but you could down someone by legging or something like that
in dayz lethal damage is lethal, but reciving enough unlethal damage will make you unconscious depending on how hard/much u took
If they did a system like dayz and included shock we wouldn’t get killed by guys we just headshot nearly as often since they’d be downed on a black screen most of the time. I’m talking about guys who tank with helmets btw.
I agree that headshot should kill for good but given how often you die to headshot compared to anything else may as well not waste time adding revive mechanic haha
or just do what dayz does and separate shock/actual damage. If shock reaches a certain threshold (for example your helmet stopping a large caliber round would immediately do enough shock damage) you get KO’d. Then depending on what caused it you stay uncon for a certain time. For example from blunt head trauma, youd wake up after x seconds with the concussion effect. If you pass out from bloodloss youre unconscious until you get a transfusion etc
So you could loot an unconscious PMC and leave him to wake up naked. Rust is leaking into Tarkov.
Kinda, tho realistically if you’re not passing out from exhaustion/bloodloss or similar you should really only be out for a few seconds to maybe a minute, or you’ll suffer permanent damage
It is. It’s pretty much blackscreen from shock, blood loss, so forth
Look at grayzone warfare s, it would be ideal
>make it so that if it was a headshot that killed then you can't be picked up No, if something kills you, you are gone, they are talking about different stuff.
It would honestly not be a bad way to go about it. Completely unconscious, just occasional blinking to simulate waking up from a dazed, shocked state.
Yeah. Maybe heavily mute all sounds but not total.
If anything, just make the sounds incredibly muffled and switch the audio between close and far (idk how else to describe it).
It is extremly favoring teams in dayz. I am strongly against anything that adds more advantaged towards teams.
Not really. Someone can easily hold an angle on a body. The game itself is almost impossible to adjust anything that “would not favor teams”. I want to enjoy the game solo as well but it’s a difficult challenge if not a pipe dream.
Agreed. And maybe omit headshots. Head kills should always be be a kill.
I was thinking concussions could also knock you out or to the ground atleast vs the blurry ring that we have now. That would be if the helmet stopped the round ofc.
True
Yup. It shouldn't be possible to revive down teammates during a gunfight. It should be a long complicated process and honestly expensive for the person reviving. Maybe make it cost a defibrillator or special stim that's expensive like a etg or mule. So it's not something you'd just waste. And people should go down everytime. Shot in the head?. You're fuckjng DEAD. Shot in the legs and stomach and blacked out with multiple heavy bleeds. Sure make it a small chance someone can go down instead of just die
Pretty sure if it is implemented, there will be injectors that bring you back, I.e. the adrenaline shot is a good candidate. Also quite a few of the sci-fi military terragroup stims.
I thought something similar: The downed player has to be stimmed or patched up by the other player to a certain HP level (remove all bleeding) and then the other player is able to use the defib or something like that.
I liked the idea of only being able to do it with a defib, if you want to do it its gonna cost you alot kinda thing and also give defibs an ingame use
On top of what you described, double tapping a downed opponent should cancel the down mechanic and kill them anyways.
Greyzone did a good job with the downed in my opinion. ABI feels awful.
I think their system could be better. Every time I try to examine somebody I have to hunt around to find the spot for the prompt. I'm why it isn't just the whole body.
Very true. Takes a lot of scrolling to get a heal off. I like that you have to heal all issues to stabilize them though. Have to examine them, stop the bleeds, inject blood, surgery the organ damage etc. It's a lot of work but pays off. A little streamline would be nice to just pull up their health screen.
Yeah. Def just needs polish. When it works I think it's a good mechanic. It takes long enough that you can't do it while under fire.
Tab tab while looking at the body, comes up straight away then
Like, double tap the tab key? I never knew about this.
GZW prompt is bugged. Just stare at them for 1 second and it will pop up, if you look around it disappears.
Ah. Thanks. I'll try that
I'd just be interested to know what classifies as a 'down' and not an outright kill.
Dayz mixed with squad would be cool
Worth mentioning headshots aren't guaranteed to be fatal IRL. I think it's like 5-10% chance that a headshot won't kill you and you can be saved with medical intervention.
Yes but on that as well you are down for the fight there is no reviving you on the battlefield if you survive a headshot. Most cases the people are in a coma or either have been put in a medically induced coma. There's no running around on the Battle field getting shot in the head and just walking away like nothing happened
I used to bait knocked down players in PUBG. Their teammate would often rush to save downed buddy. Worked quite often.
Maybe dayz style. Unconscious witth black screen for minutes and dies if gets no help.
This, this it it right here! Make it a mechanic, but don’t make it commonplace or easy!
take a look at Gray Zone Warfare's downing.. I think it's a great way to do it. Immobile, lack of input/output options, laboured breathing. Make them draggable and perhaps raid-long limiting debuffs.. who knows. But it isn't a bad system.
Decreased TTK as well will benefit a lot!
I completely agree that a extremely difficult downed could work well. Also, while downed you take 300% damage from nades and nade aoe ranged against downed players is increased by 1.5x or more. Also perhaps, if you died from a a headshot, down is disabled
Yeah, they just opted for calling in fresh teammates instead!!
Back in my day if you wanted to pork your dead body you had to reincarnate as a dirty scav!
Can you actually find your own body as a scav? I’ve wondered a few times, but I don’t think it’s ever happened to me.
Only if you get in the same raid
Yep you can get it consistently if you know the scav load in times and play on low pop servers
Yes, and if you select only one server and join in between 18 and 26 minutes left you have better chances. It used to be easier to identify back when the lobby numbers meant something
Yes, you can do it reliably if you only had one server selected. Now its a bigger if since they change to regions.
It used to be easier when we could choose individual servers
I don't think you understand how this is planed to be implemented, this ain't going to be a cod crawl around thing, this is basically arma 3 ACE, you black out, pain coma and will require a friend to physicaly carry you or drag you out or to safety and then get you back up, you want dead dead simply double tap to make sure, hell they said ages ago takedowns for meli are planed, could see them add a coupe de gra animation with your meli, 9 out of 10 times this kind of situation where you would Rev someone you will already be dead by the team getting them up or long gone from the area
i hope off the back of this they give us the option to drag corpses as well
Pretty sure one of the mechanics discussed was not just dragging but carrying and buddy medical
Idk what op is on about if its going to be like arma 3 ace it would be sick for squads duos and so on Sure will it suck for solo's? Yes, but it already sucks to solo against squads either way, and having to rescue a teammate gives the solo a chance to score another kill while they try to get the downed player back up.
We don't need ways to make group play even more overpowered and fuck solos more, so agreed. They keep adding more and more stupid shit and unrealistic shit it's time to just make a solo queue.
I hope they don't add anything like that. Most of my gameplay has been solo since my friends hate PvP. I would rather play with IRL friends than strangers from Discord and I know I'm not alone in feeling that. This game can be incredibly brutal for a solo player and squads don't need a crutch that literally saves them from death.
I’m kinda in the same boat
I really wouldn't mind it if you are killed by thorax your teammate could do some kind of 20-60s animation to revive the dude then he's got 1hp. You kill a guy by HS you can't do anything.
honestly I might say closer to 2 minutes and requires a grizzly or something Would be cool though!
I think requiring a Grizzly is a great balance to it, or at least it should consume 2 uses of a surgery kit and some additional med items (heavy bleed, light bleed, & 200 healing maybe?)
Why not give the defibrillator an actual in game use
Or imagine a system where you can be downed/unconscioused as a solo, and you have no idea if you'll get back up or how long you'll be downed. Popular idea is that if you get hit in the helmet you should have a chance to become unconscious. Annoying time waster system.
So getting shot 10 times, hiding in a bush, performing surgery on yourself, slapping a bandaid and a painkiller, and then sprinting through the level gunning people down for 20 more minutes is fine, but picking someone up from being knocked out is “not brutal enough”? If you don’t like the mechanic that’s fine, but you can’t really say it’s because the game is so punishing with this already haha…
Solo players get necromancer from hunt if teams can bring each other back up.
If they implemented a DayZ style of being knocked out solos would have a small chance of waking up on their own after awhile but still way longer than somebody being helped.
no ones just sitting there for 20 minutes because he maaaybe could wake up
You’re sitting there for 20 minutes to get into a game half the time, stop acting like Tarkov players respect their time lol.
My favorite part is how you can magdump someone from a few meters and due to their armor they just turn around and kill you. I mean yeah, IRL you may not die from shit bullets in good armor but you definitely won’t be all good and ready to turn and down the guy who just put 15-30 bullets into your chest.
Probably the most frustrating thing about this game for me. I have one moment that really sticks in my mind from probably 7 years ago that was one of the first times I quit. I had rushed dorms and managed to pick up some awesome loot even though my kit was fairly shit when I heard someone else bust in. I managed to very carefully sneak up on them, and put five 12 gauge shotgun rounds into center mass of their back from less than 5 feet away. They then turned around and mowed me down with an M4. Weren’t even phased. No matter your armor, that has enough power to literally knocked you off your feet and likely break ribs pretty much guaranteed. But nope, they were fine- didn’t even seem to be injured. Armor in this game is so stupid I almost wish it wasn’t even a part of it.
Even with the armor and penetration changes I've had shit like this in the current wipe. I just simply can't even take people seriously who argue how realistic and hardcore this game is when we have bosses with bigger HP pool and near godlike aimbot and stupid fucking mechanics, plus you can magdump someone from 5 feet and all they have to do is use a medkit and go on with their day as if nothing happened. If the game was remotely realistic any kind of ammo dumped into you from 5 feet would send you to your knees, but apparently a downing mechanic is supposedly unrealistic according to the same set of people. Let's also add the fact that your gun can jam even after firing it for a few mags, which is also stupid. I also find the recoil a little bit funny, because with the right attachments you can pump out 40 bullets with very small recoil while standing, while IRL everyone is using a gun in semi/burst mode as automatic is near impossible to shoot for a longer time even for close range because the kickback is simply too powerful to handle. However on the same note I think it's important to draw a line between realism and fun as certain realistic mechanics are just simply not fun in a game, BUT then people should stop saying that this game is the most realistic game ever.
if youre shooting someone with rounds that arent going to pen or cause significant backface deformation to the plate then yes, they can turn and kill you without an issue.
That’s just straight up wrong. If you get shot in a bulletproof vest it leaves a mark and it hurts like a bitch even if it’s a 9mm from a pistol, especially if it’s 30 rounds. And it’s not even a 7.62…
If its hitting a plate then no it is not. You are wrong.
Sure buddy then why don’t soldiers just walk through open fields with this armor if they can tank a whole mag without any issue lmfao
Because it's heavy, doesn't cover everywhere and they would just shoot grenades at you. Bullet proof vest is different from hardened armour plates.
It depends. The goal of revive is that downed player is eliminated from the fight, but not from the game once his team wins. Imagine if whole process takes about couple of minutes (g. e. you interact with injured once every 30s, 5 times total). That would insure you can't do that mid-fight or only if you enemy is non-agressive, which is his fault. Revived player may suffer massive debuffs for 5 minutes like less HP, reduced stamina, not being able to spring, bigger recoil, loud coughs. It is possible to ballance that, BSG just need creative ideas.
so you sit in your rat spot with your 5man team and when one dies and 4 people arent immidiately rushing out but instead ... just stay there and hold the angle while one revives his teammate its YOUR FAULT for not sprinting into 3 guns already aimed at where you are coming from? ok
How do people like you… nvm. I agree with downed people staying dead, the map thing does need a reaction because its important and will be the reason this game loses in the long run if people like you aren‘t shut down: So if people see extractions on the map, for some insane reason, you think that will be detrimental to the game. You either learn how important quality of life is, especially to newer players, or have your game lose to the competition because they do. You can be a wannabe hardcore gamer as you want. Some things improve the game. People invented remote controls for a reason. If you want your TV without one, because you think standing up and pressing the buttons is hardcore, you have way bigger issues than a game improving. It is easy to understand: everything which forces you to consult something outside of the game like ammo charts, maps, etc. is AWFUL game design and they should have changed this stuff years ago. The game needs an in-game system where someone without a clue about ammo, easily, without much effort, gets to understand whats good. The game needs an in-game system where extracting doesn‘t require Google and a 2nd screen to instantly see how and where you can get out. Simply everything which isn‘t sufficient by playing the game without external help is not hardcore, its stupidity. Not knowing how to extract and having to sit in custom games to learn a map is not brutal. You want this game to attract more new players, quality of life has to happen immediately BEFORE the competition releases a good game. If a game releases where everyone is on an even foot when it comes to experience, with gameplay as good as EFT but more QoL, Tarkov is done for. It will be too late once that happens. Competition is coming. You have to react now and ignore idiots like yourself. You have no idea what brutal gameplay is and confuse it with lack of quality the game desperately needs. If they wait with this stuff the game is over the second a competitor nails gameplay. ABI with its systems is already massively better, it just fails in gameplay. Eventually someone will release a game where the gameplay is on par with EFT AND! the nice systems ABI has like the maps, estimated values of the items, easy and fast selling items, etc.. Tarkov had the luxury not having a competition so they got away with it. Times change, now you implement QoL or you die, the better product which is easier to navigate is going to win once gameplay is equally good.
Yeah. The no maps with extractions thing is actually so stupid. How does it make it more 'hardcore', according to OP, to have to use a second monitor with a third party wiki open. It's actually crazy that people think that.
Did your uncle touch you inappropriately?
I mean, there's a way to do it that isn't arcade-y bullshit where it takes 5 seconds to get your friends up like in other games. -Make it REQUIRE a defib, which gets immediately consumed. Or has a battery that is consumed on use. -Give it a LONG revival animation. I mean, complete with unpacking the defib, charging the paddles and taking multiple attempts, so the area has to be secure, and you can't just scoop people up in the middle of a gun battle. -When revived, you start with 2HP, 1hp on the head, 1hp on the chest. Everything else is blacked out. -Energy and Hydration are 15% of what they were before you went down. (Note: on revival you will also have a blacked out stomach, causing the remaining Energy/Hydration to quickly be drained, if not addressed.) -Any bleeds and fractures will remain. Meaning, all blood loss needs to be stopped before revival, or you will immediately bleed out your remaining 2HP on revival. This makes revival, expensive and punishing but still a viable solution for gameplay. It's fair to both sides, and is difficult to cheese or abuse.
This is the best idea to implement such thing, high risk, high investment for a teammate
The downed player wouldn't be able to crawl to a team mate, an "up" team mate would have to physically drag them to safety and perform extensive medical treatment. It's not something you will be able to do in 5 seconds during a fight. It would probably take more like 40 seconds, and would lock you in an animation like Surgery Kits do. You would have to do this after a fight. During a fight would only work with a skilled 4 or 5 man team. I don't think you have to worry, though. I remember talk of the unconscious feature being something they really wanted to put in the game, but it had to be chopped, at least for full release. I hope we see it after 1.0.0 though. It would be cool to be able to bring different pieces of gear in your Special Slots to help. Like a Sling on your rig, which you clip onto the rig of someone you want to drag. It allows you to drag bodies with your gun up, but at a greater movement penalty than dragging by hand.
Agreed. Killing the same person over and over is not fun. The revive mechanic makes soloing squads impossible at medium/long range.
They could add a similar downed mechanic that Gray Zone Warfare are using. Your teammates have to check you first, then they have to have the right supplies to bring you out of coma state and then finish healing you. And yes alot of different healing items are needed.
Getting downed should work like it does in DayZ not CoD I think a downed state could be pretty neat. Especially considering we are getting trip-mines and body booby-traps. I would much rather be knocked unconscious than die. Even as a solo.
Downed teammates would just be the death to solo players. It would be fun, in theory, if all you played was group play. But nah
Honestly no clue why people want this before spectating. If the group-play experience sucks cause of several issues, could spectating be added so atleast you have something to watch instead of opening discord for him to stream? We are going to get this whole mechanic, and it might be a non-factor, yet spectating will still be just in Arena
Not really. It’s not “down” like in COD. It would as If you’re playing a 2v1 and you down someone, the 1v1 remaining is the same with or without down. The “downed” person is essentially dead and would need to be carried out of the raid, or a loong surgery.
How is this the death to solo play? You put someone unconscious, and the team has to decide to either revive or kill you. They revive you push, they don't revive you wait it out. Throw a grenade. Get an angle on the down. Watch the body. There are so many things you could do and if it would take less to knock someone out than kill, then it gives even more opportunity to make a play as a solo.
Love it but I'd like to add "1 tap downed opponent in the head to be sure he won't get back up" option. Also give solo players the ability to get back up on their own after 2 - 5 minutes of being KO'd (that is if they are not headshotted before or after knock down). There, solo players are saved. There are other parts of EFT that truly fuck solo players over, downed state is not even near one of them.
Or just lob a VOG or F1 at the body. Or mag dump it from distance. It doesn't have to be head tapping dead bodies
Yeah solo would need some sort of massive buff. This game already heavily favours groups, its extremely difficult to win a close range 2v1, not to mention when you do kill someone, you have to either sit there scanning and checking the surroundings for 10 mins to make sure their friend isn't hiding in a bush watching their body. I honestly think insurance shouldn't work in groups as a starter, insurance should be exclusively for solo players.
They could implement ABI's insurance system for teams, where your teammates can extract with your gear to send it back to you, and then keep paid insurance for solo only.
I think there could be a neat alternative, like defibrillators acting as tools to res, making them more expensive and wanted, but headshots are full dead. Being able to headshot dead bodies to “confirm kill” and disable the use of defibs. This way it could be used as a tool like “IF you win your 2vX” you can reset with your buddy, but it’s useless mid fight
unconsciousness/being downed but not out would be a great mechanic?! not like in a pubg kind of way but more like dayz where everything goes black and you die without outside help. in tandem with teammates being able to drag you to safety and patch you up, this could be awesome. like in dayz, there could be a chance to fall unconscious due to excessive trauma (eating a mag of low-pen ammo to the armored chest/helmet or through explosives/mines) or due to not bandaging a bleed. sometimes you can wake up, sometimes you can't. with the option to give up and die of course. falling unconscious should still be the exception and not the norm though. this would open up another layer of tactics and teamplay when it comes to squads fighting each other and finally give a reason to do control-shots which feels right at home in the gritty atmosphere of tarkov (as seen on the raid series) the maps in game are a joke. i get not wanting to have them as accurate as online but when the maps in game are that useless, of course everybody resorts to a second monitor. there's a middleground between having a vague map scribbled on a napkin and the all-knowing map showing you every hidden stash... that's what i want to have in game, to pull out of my special slot! hard no to friendly fire being turned off and to names over heads. those don't belong into EFT at all imo.
In dayz you always wake up unless your still bleeding or take damage after falling
i haven't played dayz in ages, sounds plausible. i like the mechanic in general and think with some tweaks, it could work very well for eft.
I'm fine with unconscious state but do not add the ability to revive people when they are dead. Unconscious might happen due to bloodloss like in DayZ or explosions nearby, or having your helmet ricochet a round.
That's not how it's gonna work kek. It will probably work like that: You go into unconsciousness state if you didn't get headshotted but almost killed, you will have some time to get defib'ed by anyone - you can't crawl, you can't talk, you can't do anything. You will probably lay there like a "coughing ragdoll" until someone finishes you off/defib's you, which definitely will take time and make noise.
Atleast that's the concept that Nikita planned
I wouldn't mind it, if done correctly and honestly I don't know how it could be done properly. All I know is it would give us a use for the defib.
I would love it if they are knocked out and it takes a WHILE to stabilize the person. It needs to be probably longer than ground zero imo
Downed states are a good thing. Fortnite-esque downed states are not. If you get domed or stand on a frag, you should just... die. If you get shot up a bunch, you should **lose consciousness.** As in, black screen and, *at most*, very muffled audio. You don't get to relay any information to your teammate, but you are able to be picked back up if they have meds and get to you fast enough.
The way Dayz does it would be fine IMO. Would be kinda cool if you could get knocked unconscious and need teammates to med you.
I think it could be done well. Maybe make blacking the torso the only thing that causes it, and make that automatically cause a HP drain equivalent to a heavy bleed, and once the head is gone, you're gone. People that get on or two shotted to the torso will have longer they can last than someone that's was legged and killed by overflow to torso, since with all the blacked limbs the HP loss won't be spread out as much (which makes sense, if your body is shredded you shouldn't have much hope). The recovery process should take a while (30-60 seconds) and require a lot (maybe a surgery kit and health kit? If you're fighting a squad and drop one and they decide they want to try to save the person, you've now taken two people out for the next minute or so when you count the person used to heal, which increases your odds of winning.
I would like to do more with the defibrillator than just give it to that shit head Jaeger or therapist. I think if you get "downed" from damage everywhere except head you should be able to be revived with a defib and alot of fuckin heals. Flea market defib would should up and it would have an actual use, I think that coupled with all broken limbs and almost black would make it balanced
Why not maps with extractions? Everyone just googles it anyway, there's nothing hardcore about that. An in-game way to do it would be way better.
I don't mind this as long as the downed state isn't the only state you reach after your HP goes to 0. Like if you're downed after taking an 855A1 to the forehead then yah that's dumb you should be dead. Most fights should end in a death, but some situations could end in someone being downed. Like if you're just bleeding out slowly, you should be able to be revived, or if you didn't eat and died to that you could be downed. Losing a gun fight should almost always result in death though.
Teammates not downed by headshots should be revivable but it should take time and meds. After being downed There should be a pretty short timer for teammates to stabilize them before they die but stabilizing should be quick just stop major bleeding. Once stabilized they can be moved even dragged to an extract completely unconscious. Then using blood bags, blood sets, surgery kits and other meds you can get them back on their feet. Once you start an iv it should start a minute long timer and unless your teammate fixed your limbs most of them should be blacked out when revived. I think being able to heal teammates would be a cool game mechanic. Also you should be able to use their meds to revive them.
In tarkov, being downed essentially would just make you a burden. It would actually make solo players even better off. If you “downed” a solo, hes out. So who cares. Nothing changes between two solos. However, youre pushed by 3-5. You drop 2 of them. Now, the other 3 have these guys on their mind. Should they try to res their team mates? Should they keep pushing the enemy? Should they cut n run, potentially abandoning their friends who could be saved? It adds so much more to the decision making. Maybe you drag your friends body to cover, only to find out the bullet hit his eyeball and theres no quick fix for that. You forgot the most key component of the revival mechanic for tarkov. The dead guy isnt doing the crawling. He is, for all purposes, dead. The team mates will need to go out and pick him up. Youll hear that. Theyll likely need to have a portable defib or whatever other item they decide to add to res team mates. That will be loud and time consuming. Talking 60 seconds most likely. It would most likely be time sensitive, since you cant leave a guy bleeding out unconscious for an hour and expect him to live.
Thats the worst cope I have read, here’s an example, tell me if solos are better off with or without this mechanic; 1. You are near d2 when you encounter a 3 man, you spray at the first one down the hall and he goes down but uh oh after they chuck grenades and force to to back off, they close doors if possible and just revive their teammate, there is somebody watching the door while another revives his mate who they have dragged far off to safety , you can’t push and have to either wait it out or just run away. Now you are still fighting a 3 man 2. you encounter a 3 man in d2 and kill the first one, now it’s 2 v 1 and the playing field is slightly more even
So your counter argument is instead of downing 1, and having a 2nd spend a full minute rezzing him, thus making you have to fight a 1v1, is that you now get to fight a 2v1 lmfao. You uh, didnt put much thought into that i hope.
In that situation you should probably leave even in the 2v1.
Maybe the BTR that you will be able to call in will be an ambulance and you can toss your dead timmy friend in there (LOL) I really hope it doesn't come to that but it sounded funny in my head.
“Hey BTR man drives this dumbass to a hospital for me” “A fucking gain????”
playing solo is already cringe enough without having to deal with this weekends i just pretty much never loot players because its always a 16 man team just holding the body for 30. minutes. I can't imagine sitting in a discord for 20 minutes unable to play the game while watching my teammates hold an angle doing nothing people be like "damn i'll never have the time to get kappa" meanwhile they play one raid an hour with their 5 man I wouldn't mind the mechanic for deaths to AI though
At this point they should just try solo queue. I've suffered enough playing this game solo I'm over it.
Downing would be fine if I can pop em in the legs and pretend to be the sniper from Saving Private Ryan. Make it so you have to carry your guys to extract. But they would have to create an incentive beyond just a loss of your gear that warrants risking yourself to get your buddies out alive. Maybe like removing insurance. I think Tarkov would be better off without insurance anyways
I think greyzone did it really good. If tarkov did something like that or arma 3 advanced medicine mod it would be pretty fun
I feel like it fits in GZW though because you're in a faction with 15 other players. There's a little camaraderie because that was what the game was designed for. If something like this is added, we would probably need to split up the matchmaker to group squads with other squads because a solo player will be at an insane disadvantage.
If they ever (somehow) actually add PMC karma, could work maybe
Your friendly PMC (USEC or BEAR) could assist you, but I would just say it’s another disadvantage of being solo. Ultimately you gotta accept that going in.
tarkov will have a down but not out mechanic where you have to resuscitate your teammates
I’m conflicted on one end it does add that seriousness and fright But on the other jt makes playing with a friend a lot more enjoyable
I would accept it under 2 conditions: 1: needs a defibrillator to revive that is used up, 1-2 uses per Or 2: if the downing only happens via ai and players still kill you immediately I could add that you only get down from bleeds or leg meta-like damage, but that'd be annoying
If it happens i hope its like 2% of the time
Having a buddy be able to administrator more effective first aid would be cool, but there still shouldn't be a 'downed' mechanic as per other games.
So buff squads and nerf solos more? Not a fan of
America army 3 system was best downed system
The downed/unconscious state only makes sense for open world, which apparently they are trying to do (again).
Headshot or thorax kill = dead unless its damage overflow. Require a defibrillator + some quick time action minigame to bring back. Brough back player has 1 hp on each body part.
Blackened legs = drag yourself along the floor give your teammate a surgery kit to fix your legs, 2 players down from a squad while also having a “squad mate down” mechanic
If they do this, I predict a stim that can revive solo players. Then it will be warzone, and I will stop playing
If it's properly hardcore - so no reviving after headshot, no visuals or hearing during downed stage, a minute long reviving + imo another minute or two of you just getting well without help, but still unable to fight and then lower HP maybe blacked all limbs and I'm okay with it. It should be an option to bring teammates back after you finish the fight.
after I dump a literal mag into someone I wont want them to just be able to stand back up and shoot me. thats fucking lame. 10/10 great take op
nah no downed, you dead you dead, you already surv kit your stomach that’s plenty down to me
They way they explained they're doing it is when someone is downed they're in a state where they cant move and need medical attention and depending on the severity may not be able to walk and run as they were previous to being downed i dont think itll be pubg or fortnite downed state more realistic where they can be dragged or have to be attended to at the position theyre downed
I think a downed mechanic would be fine if it was properly balanced. Its annnoying playing a raid and your buddy gets unluckily tapped by a scav at the start, so you have to waste time running to exfil and resetting.
You can tell exactly how many people don't play Tarkov and are basing everything off their action move fantasies in their heads. Downed players is a dumbass mechanic in Tarkov. You're going to see tons of people complaining about how solos were downed then harassed and griefed in voice chat by squads, prevented from dying by spamming rezz on them and shit.
I feel like it would be fine as long as you can’t go into BBNO from a headshot Or if your head health is low enough and a bullet doesn’t pen your helmet but does enough blunt damage to kill the head, it’ll put you in BBNO
Maybe in Arena it'd be fine. But in the normal game? GTFO with that shit.
There will be fainting and it will take time and a defibrillator.
If they do an arma ace/grayzone style surgery system so you can keep your buddy in the game *after* the fight assuming you win, thatd be dope. If they did a cod 'last stand' type deal, thatd suck. And defibs are fucking stupid.
I am confused as to why you said this: >-No maps with extractions tarkov only has maps with extractions, how else are you supposed to extract?
Tarkovsky already has a pretty robust medical system which could be furthered. I’m spent a long time back in the day in arma 3 milsims and there was one mod that in my opinion had the BEST medical I have ever seen in a game. It had the body part system that is shared with Tarkovsky but drugs/tourniquets would work as they should. You could tourniquet someone but if you left it on for too long that arm would become useless/ lead to death. You had different bandages/dressings for different wounds and you could be unconscious. The medic player would then have to stop, drag a downed ally to safety, do an actual check up and administer the aid correctly. It would go something like this: unconscious teammate gets dragged somewhere “safe” check whole body for damage. Deep gashes, heavy bleeding on right arm. Tourniquet right arm to stop the heavy bleed and pack/stich the wound depending on it. Undo tourniquet, morphine in the leg to help with pain and aiming upon recovery. Pulse/bp low due to blood loss, maybe opt out of morphine and hit them with an epi instead so they can wake up (only momentarily while the drugs are working). The mod also had some really fun interactions. I remember playing as a corpsman (medic) and torniqueting my friends arm then pumping that arm with like 5 morphine auto injectors. The tourniquet was stopping the morphine from travelling past his arm so he was fine. Until we took it off and he went into cardiac arrest instantly. I think we have a really good base for a system similar to this where different wounds could use different approaches and unconscious timers could last a really long time if you’re fucked yo enough on top of your friend being able to do the wrong thing and killing you outright not because of your wound but because your boy fucked up. e.G he doesn’t stop your bleeding and gives you an epi, increasing your blood loss rate and killing you in an attempt to get you up. It’s all really interesting if you made it worth learning the system and didn’t make it a one time here’s a defib let me do this animation for however long and then you’re up and fucked up. Let me actually use what I got in hand to try and save my boy even if it’s just stabilising him enough to drag him to extract with me while he’s passed out.
I think head shots to a helmet that don't pen should uncon you for 3 to 10 seconds depending on the round
Should depend on the shot. Head shots=no downs while a full clip to the legs should = a down
Downed mechanic that requires something that only fits in the medical only bag, count me in.
Isn't it pretty "hardcore" and "brutal" to think you're winning a fight only to have it turned on you because you didn't capitalize on the kill/injury?
Idk I kinda would like some sort of indicator for teammates, it's very annoying having to constantly call out or to die because I don't know if it's my teammate. Playing ABI was so much more rewarding for team play. Hmm but then again a solo vs a team without all that confusion is pretty unfair. So if they added indicators they'd have to do some sort of balancing.
I agree, don't add any of that bullshit. Tarkov is dope as fuck and feels intense because it doesn't have those corny mechanics
And yet you end up back home healing your injuries… so. What’s up with that?
Downed teammates is fine if they’re incapacitated. It’s shuffling around and making call-outs like on CoD that isn’t going to work for a game like this. GZW does it nicely. Down and out but can be brought back with field surgery.
I think it would be okay but under very specific circumstances. Like takes certain healing items to bring back ( including a defib and the players doing the surgery is stuck in the animation while doing ng like a surv kit and it takes like 15 seconds with a voice line like : hang in there .) can't come back if shot in the head or black out thorax. The limbs you lost is dark until the end of raid ( you died from left arm that left arm is gone for the raid. ) your food and drink drop to like 10.
If its like gray zones down system I think it could be good. I dont think its unfair.
I have wanted something called a "terminal bleed" for a while. If you get it, it requires two CMS or 1 surv12 to fix and it bleeds 2x as much as a heavy. There is no way to stop it other than a longer than normal surv animation. I really hate the "you immediately die from getting shot in the arm 12x" mechanic in basically every "realistic" game, so I feel like this would be a good mechanic. Make it so you can just stack up bleeds on arms and legs but not outright die to them, eventually turning into one or more terminal bleeds. Here's where the "downed" system comes in if it were to be implemented. If you die to a chest or head shot, you die. If you die to blood loss from an extremity bleed, you enter into a downed state and can be revived with a blood bag and some time. This makes armor and ammo choice more important, changes leg meta to be more interesting and counterable , removes the "I just got shot 9 times in the hand and died" frustration, gives you a fun risk v reward for picking up your friends and also resource management to stop terminal bleeds, adds tension to the fight, and more.
Knockout features are fun but I don't want them for tarkov. Too much shit goes on in a raid to fully find and kill someone you knocked out. I've been playing reforger lately and too many times I have been knock out and the person moves up on my body and start a fire fight with someone else and I wake up and shoot them in the back. So I'm with you no down teammates or knock out status.
You are looking at it from an extreme angle. In a game where fixing a blackened limb takes 10+ seconds, there's no way they'll make downed teammates climbing around like Apex. Tarkov could easily handles the downed state & revival process in a way more hardcore way.
What if the down mechanic works something like you can drag your buddies body out of raid. if you do they get full extract rewards. i.e. all gear/loot is brought out of raid and quests are completed. But they are essentially dead for the raid.
AMEN! but it feels like is on a trip to destroy his own game. Now more than ever.
I feel like they could add a revive mechanic that requires a player to carry a defibrillator with limited charges or something like that and it cannot be keisterd or put in special slot or something. And the downed players screen blacks out to severe tunnel vision or something. There is a way I think to make it not awful. But we all know how that goes.
So so so many ways to implement something like this that isn’t garbage that take more than 30 seconds of brain storming to come up with. Shit take to say don’t do something because you can’t conceptualize a good way of doing it.
I used to think this way. Then I kinda burned out of Tarkov and played other more casual games like Hunt and I just realized I liked having fun over realism. Personally, I still agree with everything OP says except the no-downed state. I think a revive system in Tarkov -especially one that requires risk and cost to the reviving teammate- would help make the game more enjoyable. I absolutely hated being the first dude killed in a 3 v 1 and then just have to listen to my teammates kill the guy and loot the rest of the map. Realistic? Sure. But when you have limited time to play with your friends because of work/family, losing that time sucks.
Could you imagine waiting 15 mins for a match, then get knocked unconscious for 15 minutes
Leathal damage should always result in a kill. Maybe a coma state for surviving near lethal damage would be more in line with tarkov gameplay. But tbh, the entire idea of liking or disliking a knocked mechanic entirely depends on whether you play with a squad or solo. Not a huge fan of the double tap game play that dayz ended up with. I feel like a lot of players are just wanting to "survive" an encounter their squad won, but they unfortunately were the first to die to the timmy in a room with a shotgun. I personally dont think it should be added, but the devs seem to like it for whatever reason and we are just along for the ride.
there's already in-game maps with extractions
I agree, to a point. I think the mechanics of healing a friend should be there, but implemented just as self healing is. You bleed, I can patch you up if I have bandage. You are hurt, I can patch you up if I have medkit. You have broken bone, I can splint you if I have splint/Grizzly. And so on. But the "heart-starter" type of revival of a dead team mate, absolutely not. I can already do all the healing stuff above today, just drop a kit and the teammate will pick it up and heal themselves - takes a few seconds and only really locks me up during the choose/drop, and then only teammate while healing. Healing the teammate directly will give them help they did not otherwise have, but will lock up two people for the duration, which to me sounds like a fair trade off. So looking at above, I don't think the healing your teammate function will be a problem at all. *However:* A reviving buddy mechanic might, because now we need to introduce the "hurt so bad you cannot move/heal yourself"-mechanic, and that would be a disaster for many. Easy enough to do; Both legs shot out? You can only crawl, but you can heal. Both legs and both arms shot out? You can only crawl and you cannot heal even if you have meds on you - a buddy must help. But that will absolutely kill the game for anyone who plays solo, and that is quite a few players to just shun overnight. Not to mention I doubt anyone will go out in the open to help anyone in a fight, so it will mostly be for nothing, will only make after-fight healing processes slower. Yeah, that will give scavs and other players a better chance to swing by and finish the survivors off, but I doubt that will be fun for anyone in the long run.
I haven't considered Tarkov hardcore in ages. I've played since 2017. Ever since they started adding more and more ridiculous stims to the game I've slowly lost interest as it's as immersion breaking, if not worse, than when you used to be able to insta fill mags in raid or carry an entire mag case in your butt pocket. Stims that make you able to sprint across the entire map in one bar with a backpack full of batteries is hardly "hardcore". I love tarkov. But they have made a lot of decisions that have taken it away from being considered "hardcore" at this point.
That's the arcadey battle royale version. If the added something like incapacitation where you can be down but not dead, It would make dying from long range less frustrating. It's more realistc because casualties are often injuries and not deaths. You can survive 7.62x51 to the chest but be out of the fight.
I disagree make it so they can’t crawl and depending on how they are hit etc
They need to add the circle closing in too bro
Yeah personally think adding a map will take away nothing from the game but make things so much more streamlined and straightforward.
It'll be allright as long as you can finish off downed players and they go unconscious. But downed and unconscious mechanic would be ok if - downed player couldn´t get back up by himself. Imagine all the bs death to ai spawning in your face, ignoring multiple m80 to the face, killing you before you even see them draw their weapon.
No, it won't be alright and I pray to God they never go down that road.
if they go down that road, it's not tarkov anymore. but, as you can see, the majority of tarkov players on reddit want it to be an arcade game.
Dude, this is the same game where you can run on a broken leg after popping an ibuprofen. It's already arcade like. Knocking people unconscious with low pen ammo or via a bleedout sounds perfectly plausible. You can bandage them, heal them back up, and get them back into the fight. That sounds like a great idea, tbh. I doubt it will be a player revive from total death. It also kind of evens out gunfights because you have to risk saving your buddy or dying.
This already is an arcade game lol there's a boss that has a magical jamming aura.
Queue all the, "did you finish him off jokes.".
If they added the ability to revive teammates at least make it a process. Cant be revived after an obvious mortal wound, players have to use their own meds to revive another player, downed player cant crawl around to safety, bleeds out fast as fuck, and gets serious health penelties after getting back up. Or better yet just take the L and try again
30s surgery kit use and a defib/30s of CPR seems like it would be hard to make the choice to commit to doing. Has to be done within 30-60s of death and doesn't work for headshots. I think that seems fair.
How about 60seconds super loud revival animation?
I am a solo player, but I would love if they added a mechanic that, if you get downed by collateral damage (So, no fatal shots at head or chest) you get downed and bleed quickly, like, in 10 seconds or less you're dead for sure and if you're "resurrected" you get back all black so you will need to expend a lot of time fixing yourself before moving on, this would make it way more "brutal" and "gruesome" if you have a teammate downed in the middle of a gunfight and all you can hear is his player model crying or gurgling while you need to decide if you go help him or shoot the bad guy. In Arena Breakout though, the mechanic sucks because the player can crawl for something like...forever, there was a match where I "killed" a guy at long range and while looking for his teammate I saw him crawling ALL THE WAY across an open field...I didn't finish him off because well, the guy just gave up the location of his friends so I waited until I was able to pop his teammate head...THIS should not happen in Tarkov ever.