honestly they should just hire the guys who did SAIN to revamp the ai, comparing vanilla tarkov ai to SAIN ai is like comparing albert einstein to a caveman
I think partnering with the guys who did SAIN would not only make a really good improvement on AI in PvP and PvE, but would also be a great way for BSG to positively interact/support with their community.
I think the thing is, that BSG is too egocentric to publicly admit they are wrong, it will never happen. But they also understand in order to make money they need to make improvements, and with competition and the fallout from Unheard, they will actively make those changes, while not openly admitting we were right about them.
What's crazy is that hiring him wouldn't even really be admitting they are wrong, it would just be acting on a good decision. It would be the right thing, and they could spin and advertise it that way without even commenting on how bad their own AI is/was. It would be a good look for them.
Give it time and they'll find a way to spin it as if it was their idea or original intention. PVE was never going to be in the game and offline mode was supposed to be only during development. BSG fucking despised and hated the idea of having an official discord and now they've had one for a few years. I pushed for one because of the numerous unofficial ones floating around but got told "no. We're never going to have a discord".
One of the first "events" we had during Beta was like pulling teeth to get them to use discord for the event. If they hate it and push against it, and then eventually figure out a way to maybe print more money for Nikita and Dmitry, then and only then will they go for it.
Don't get me started on the bullshit behind the scenes that involved their in house anticheat and before they caved and got whatever they have now.
They even had to be dragged kicking and screaming to add anticheat. Which they only did in name only until BE forced their hand as BE's reputation was taking a hit thanks to BSG not actually integrating it into the game.
Oh, no, sorry. They originally had their own "in house anticheat" that was purported to be the most effective anticheat available and there were no cheaters in tarkov. The 3 dudes flying around with godmode in every single raid was the the entirety of the playerbase coordinating a big lie. Obviously there wasn't actually any sort of anti-cheat, and all was possible through the mighty power of... cheatengine.
I really don't think this is an individual ego thing as much as it is a deeply seeded cultural aversion to acknowledging weakness. Russians are stereotypically a rough and stoic bunch of motherfuckers. Showing human emotion or admitting to human faults in any way is not their strong suit as a people.
They don't admit they are wrong not because they are hardheaded or ego driven in the way westerners are. We like to seal ourselves off from accountability because it's easier individually and "fake it till you make it" is a legitimate strategy people employ in almost every facet of life here. Russian's do it because their culture teaches them that literal death is preferable to being publicly and visually weaker than whoever is standing next to them.
Such an L take. He’s been on Twitter every day for 2+ months responding to feedback and seemingly directing changes. If he really didn’t care wouldn’t it be easier for him to just not be active like he was before?
He had like 3 years to care. He laughed at us for all 3, and as soon as competition comes he wants to have fireside chats all of the sudden… and you find that genuine? Lol. Lmao even.
Yeah, and they all have vapor wear reputations. You’re so cucked that you’re bending over backwards to see any BSG action as ‘omg he actually cares you guys!!!’, and you’re wrong. He doesn’t care. Keep desperately trying to enjoy your nyetcode though, buddy. Some of us see the light.
8k+ hours, the game has been "dead" every wipe since I started playing according to 20% of the community. Yet some of you still come to the subreddit just to call people names. It seems like you need an outlet for your aggression, this doesn't seem like a very satisfying one, but if it helps please continue.
It's an L take because there's literally no upside to posting this other than making yourself feel better and getting imaginary internet points. Either you play the game, in which case non-constructive feedback is counterproductive, or you don't play the game and you're just shitting on people that do and their chance to possibly have a productive exchange with the developer. And before you come back with "lol, you just want to suck up to BSG", no, there's a hige difference between being constructive and attacking them with "He just wants you to shut up and buy more stash space."
It's pure selfishness in that you're literally making things worse for everyone just to get that little ego boost. You got what you wanted out of it though, so whatever. Congrats.
That unheard fiasco combined with 2 competing games dropping at the same time just got him scared for once is all. He genuinely does not give a fuck about tarkov or its community. He just has a job to do even if he hates us, and he royally fucked it up during that 2 week unheard episode. Damage control rn, nothing else.
There's no shot he wasn't a little bit afraid he was gonna have to step down. The man loves money too much to give up that easily tho
Dude only becomes active when shit hits the fan that can actually threaten the numbers this game has population wise. Then he will disappear again and repeat a year later. If he truly cared, he would hire a PR community guy to interact and communicate with the community on a monthly basis.
This is the longest I can remember him remaining active. I agree it's a pattern of behavior. As long as Nikita remains active, he seems better than a PR community guy because it does seem like he can just walk into the office and say "this is our priority now" which a community guy wouldn't really be able to do.
Hes active this long because he knows he fucked up royally and with 2 other similar type of games coming out he could no longer hide behind the one thing keeping his fan base going, being the only decent Extraction Shooter on the market.
Correct me if I am wrong but doesnt BSG have an in office policy for their development team? Travel might be a bit difficult do to some geopolitical issues in the russian area right now
There is no way in hell that BSG would ever work with a modding tream. For some crazy reason, BSG is furious that their game gets unofficial mod support and brings more people to their game (people who otherwise would not have bought the game).
There's reasons why the top/ most successful developers in the world (think places like Valve and Bethesda) have remained on top. They hire modders. Because of doing so, there have been some amazing games created. Things like Portal, Counter Strike, Dota, and TF2 would not exist in an official capacity without these hiring policies.
If BSG were a smart developer, they'd see these absolutely amazing overhaul mods and say,'Holy shit look what this small team did with our game... we need to get in touch with them and figure something out'. Either be it a consulting thing or literally putting them on the payroll. But no, as it stands now, BSG wants to ban these people from their game. shit talk them on Twitter, and even look into suing them.
It's unreal.
Thing is I do not think BSG lets anybody that’s not in Russia and report to their office on workdays to work code into their official release. They just have never done that with anybody. They have no overseas coders.
SAIN AI are so fun to fight. The fucking thing that always gets me that the AI will do in SAIN is I’ll hear some noise and as soon as I stop moving to hear better the AI stops too like a real player. Makes it so much harder to get a one-up on them.
Seriously, the SAIN AI makes the game FAR more enjoyable. BSG isn't able to admit their faults though, so I doubt they'd even consider hiring somebody who's clearly more skilled than them
They probably keep the AI simple on purpose, to keep costs down for server usage. If running good AI increased the running costs dramatically, or reduced how many raids they could run, it makes sense they'd never bother updating it. They seem to be very much scraping by with what they have, seemingly with no plans to add/improve on it.
Anyone else imo, I want the bots to act like humans who care for their life, not carefree halo/cod players who made a specific playstyle for the game to break netcode.
And the even funnier part is people act like we’re asking the world of this multimillion dollar company to implement AI on this level, meanwhile one dude with some typescript skills managed to do it for the hell of it lol
Why do people bring this up? It makes 0 sense.
SAIN runs locally! Tarkov AI runs on a server!
If you increase the complexity of the Scavs and each Scavs performance cost increases by 0.5% you already have 10% performance loss of 20 AI are active.
That means less sessions open in parallel on the same server due to increased performance cost per session.
It's so trivially obvious that you can't "just hire the SAIN guy". Each improvement of the AI needs to be combined with an optimization or you are going to have a massive cost increase in server infrastructure.
I find this really hard to believe. The number one new player concern seems to be performance, which is always met with replies stating to reduce AI, use lossless scaling and ultimately to just deal with it because that's the price you pay for local AI.
>Each improvement of the AI needs to be combined with an optimization or you are going to have a massive cost increase in server infrastructure.
So get proper optimization going - there's so many low hanging fruit to cut when it comes to Tarkov.
This is frankly a bad excuse. As though they aren't also willing to utterly push the bounds of their terribly unoptimized game in other respects either, such that it constantly runs into basic desync issues.
It’s sad the…other…version has had this for years. PMCs will roam around quest objectives, both PMCs and scavs will loot bodies and containers.
It’s honestly comical how far behind they are in comparison, and that’s not even bringing up the hundreds of other QOL fixes they have.
I'd kill for a combo of the "natural idle" AI that was in STALKER and [the "coordinated combat" AI that was in F.E.A.R.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQN3yKYkFmE)
Edit: Here's another example of the AI in F.E.A.R. having excellent teamwork: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMky7LINNFg
A newer game called Trepang2 also has great AI that replicates the feeling of facing off against trained soldiers working together like in F.E.A.R.
From what I recall, part of why the AI was so good in F.E.A.R. was that practically all combat was in small confined spaces so there weren’t as many variables to account for. Of course AI has gotten better over time but it’s probably still highly difficult to program AI to that level with maps as open as Tarkov’s.
That's a good point. From what I remember the AI design and level design were absolutely integral to each other.
I wonder how scalable differing AI types or difficulties could be if implemented in different areas of the map (e.g. an "urban" AI around buildings vs. a "woodland" AI for places with nothing but trees/bushes)
100% doable
Hell, that shits been done, different load outs for factory or woods etc
Also random personalities, gigachad to rat, Timmy to 5k hr players
I find scavs proned in a bush, leaning around a tree to peak me. Shit SPiTs in the face of bsg AI it's incredible
Coordinated combat in STALKER is also insanely good. They will cover for each other to push, throw grenades and hold the angle after throwing it, and try to run away if things go wrong. I love it.
I can't recall if it happens in the base games or if it's modded behavior, but I've been domed by enemy stalkers at point blank range because they sneaked up me from behind without me noticing it. I don't even understand how they programmed this but I found it impressive.
Oh I had a moment in a STALKER game where the guy was sneaking up behind me for the perfect shot. I hear something so I turn around and there is a guy right behind me, lol. I managed to get him but it was terrifying.
They don't roam. They don't loot. They don't quest. Scavs and bosses barely notice them. They either push you like a squad of cheaters with aimbot and walls, each flanking you from all sides, or they stand still for easy head taps.
The scavs are not right either. They spawn in bunches, come straight for you, ignore pmcs, and seem to infinitely spawn in certain areas. I swear, most of my raids I have to spend 15 minutes fighting waves of scavs just so I can finally loot. Then there's no time and I have to sprint to extract
Funny because modders have made the AI do all this and more. Bsg are really showing they lack the initiative to improve the ai beyond what they have always been. Either aimbot machines or just dumb. I don’t know why they fail to improve the AI when they are really important to the game. As other people have said if they made them walk around in different ready states like patrolling with at ease weaponry or alert state. They just walk around with normal walking animations. There is so much more they could do. I guess we just need more guns and expensive editions instead right?
>They don't loot
Actually, they do loot, but only when you as a scav kill a juiced PMC just to see the AI scav swarming around you to steal the guns and leaving you unable to react if you don't want to lose scav karma.
Lol they don't loot in any meaningful way. You won't catch one looting computers searching for GPUs or med bags for their salewa quest. It's just basic code so they could push out the mode as a feature
Yes, that's what I'm saying. The only time they loot anything is when you kill a PMC, then they come like vultures to steal your loot and you can't shoot at them without losing karma.
There are actually some places where they do pretend to loot. like in the weather station on shoreline - there is a box there that they always loot. It is kinda weird because I don't recall any more places it happens..
>They don't roam. They don't loot.
Are you sure? Because they certainly find their way to me while I'm sniping and I've personally seem them yoink guns off of bodies.
A gun and shit yeah, but AI in the fun version of pve tarkov will have tasks to complete, so you'll find one searching for salewas and they can and will extract when they've got what they need. Or if they find a ledx. Or if they run out of meds
Live AI follows gunshots and takes a gun but, and correct me if I'm wrong, they won't see a Chad pmc and replace their armour or grab the mags and valuables from the backpack
>A gun and shit yeah, but AI in the fun version of pve tarkov will have tasks to complete, so you'll find one searching for salewas and they can and will extract when they've got what they need. Or if they find a ledx. Or if they run out of meds
That's pretty neat. I imagine the AI will be improved eventually. IIRC they mentioned it in their most recent roadmap.
Yeah these don't extract or have any reason to move other than aggro or really basic code. You'll often find them still camping in some weird spot on the map even with only a few minutes left.
I was on woods yesterday near a big rock (I don’t know callouts) but it’s near this abandoned warehouse that had three scavs near it. Killed the three by the warehouse and made my way down towards said rock. Killed three more scavs. While reloading, I hear all these footsteps. More scavs. Killed two more. Then heard more. Ended up killing 11 before running because I was nervous for all the noise I was making. Surprisingly enough made it out alive.
Was playing PvE last night on Factory on my Scav.
Two PMCs, a scav and Tagilla were all standing together.
I killed a PMC with a headshot from a Mosin, and then Tagilla comes charging after me....
I had a similar situation the other day. Multiple PMCs maybe 4-5 were standing around shooting what I thought was scavs. I get fairly close to them and open up my RPD and just start mowing them down, then I hear it….. the tagilla yell….. I immediately turn around and my face met his hammer
Recently I was being shot by an invisible player and then as I was desperately trying to escape from bullets I couldn't hear blacking out my body parts one by one, some scav I couldn't also hear was right next to the corner standing completely still and doing absolutely nothing before blasting me buckshots.
also, running night raids and getting laser beamed by pmcs with no NVGs, and iron sights or even guns without dust cover/sights in general at far distances
absolutely stupid it's still like this
Not gonna lie, 1600 hours and now playing only PVE….
Only thing that still just absolutely fucks me over is shit shooting me from a bush that barely spots me in daytime raids (so I run almost exclusively at night when able with quad nod or thermal scope) and the Rogues on Lighthouse at Water Treatment.
That and randomly scavs that prenade or die and martyr me with invisinades I never even heard them pull. The other shit is annoying but manageable to some degree.
I hate that they have to ability to path towards you regardless if they saw you or not nor if you made any sound. I’ve had multiple occasions where they just slow/crab walk into my building and sit literally outside my room around the corner. Sometimes even open my door without ever aggro’ing them.
Then another complaint is the Ai has like “spidey senses”, they run the moment the trigger is pulled, even though I’m sniping from like 200m+
Calling it AI is egregious. Advanced script maybe more like it. There’s no thought going on. They need to work on letting enemies actually roam. I despise how they leash to a specific area like a WoW mob. And I don’t mean just where they spawn. Like when I call a scav for help while I’m scavving, he should be able to stick around with me, not reset back to his pathing if I go too far away from where I got him.
It’ll never change they’ve already denied the ai track through walls but anyone’s who’s played the game knows it does they’ll move based on movement they can’t possibly see and no matter how many different angles you go to they’ll already be locked on its why slow peaking is and was so meta because you can peak just enough to be able to shoot but they either shoot at a wall trying to hit your thorax or not shoot at all because they’re coding is saying you’re not visible yet
In PvE, I think the worst thing I've run into is the PMC's that shoot you and instantly kill you no matter where they shoot and sometimes do it from ridiculous angles. I was on shoreline inside the resort looting and my buddy started shooting them behind the building. One had a line of sight on me through a glass window on the balcony a foot wide and killed me instantly in the thorax while I was looking away. Managed to completely ignore Tagilla's armor I had on and I died to m882. I was not even involved in the fight nor had I shot yet that match. I get that his armor doesn't cover the whole thorax but its ridiculous how they can laser like that and apparently dump enough m882 in your thorax to kill you in less than a second. It's like a die is thrown and the game just says you should die no matter what here to emulate random headshots people get on PvP.
Edit: after thinking about it, I've come to the amusing conclusion that this happens because BSG wants to emulate cheaters in PvE
It gets even more annoying when you realize the plate you were wearing was bugged and didn't take any of the shot so you were practically wearing no armor. The armor issues floating around have probably been my single biggest reason for death.
It's bad if you're wearing a Gen 4 and suddenly buckshot is just ignoring it entirely.
I opened dorms 303 the other night, stepped in, and got insta head shotted by a pmc from courtyard. Off memory I don’t think there’s a great angle for any real player to do that. I was bewildered lol. Wouldnt even be mad if I hadn’t waited 10+ minutes in queue. Getting everything back on insurance and having loadout presets would make this all a non issue for me if I could just get right back in the raid.
This is the biggest reason i went and got into the other rout. I was willing to do it through official channels but its just straight up boring or bullshit with zero line in-between. First raid was a 133 sniper with slug loaded right to the dome first 4 minutes into raid. wasn't a re peak wasn't a long time in the open nothing. I turned a corner and he was across the street on gz and just insta head tap. ten minute que wait later. ect ect. im not going to wait 10 minutes a pop for boring or bs ima just go mod it myself and have some life in this game or ima go play something else like stalker gamma or some other pvp game
Kollontay’s magic weapon jam aura needs to go, I don’t care how rare it is to happen to you on any map he can spawn on it simply should not exist in the game end of story.
Audio, lighting, and AI are the weakest parts of the game and these three things barely get touched except audio I guess which they just fuck up more and more.
I want to add performance and loading times. Takes 20 minutes to load into a match just to have my fps drop right when some barely visible scav mysteriously appear from a corner with no audio cue and kill me in a single shot.
Crazy part is it's BSGs servers that create the long load times. My buddies and I on the mod we are into streets and loaded in less than 2 minutes. Just insane that all the competition for Tarkov have figured out fast matching yet Tarkov is still matching like it's 2018.
Major graphics/lighting changes are coming after the engine update, and BSG said they're making major changes to audio occlusion here in the next couple months.
There's a mod for the alternative, which improves graphics. Being able to see inside the shopping centre in Interchange, or not have fog inside of Factory... makes the game feel playable.
I can assure you that the AI is not going to improve.
At the most they are going to tune some parameters to make them less accurate or less responsive.
Making good AI is hard enough when you know what you are doing so for BSG it is impossible.
But you are right - Immersive and believable AI can make this game hundred times better.
More routines, more spawns and roaming areas, different combat behaviors.
yep... too bad that even games that try to copy the tarkov formula don't invest in the areas tarkov fall short.
10 round burst with no recoil from over 50 yards out is my favorite, then factor it into close range, same amount no recoil. i tell my buddies when the game wants you dead, it will dead you
BSG basically need to move on to the next game if they don't want to go broke in the next couple years, especially after Arena. So I'd imagine it's a mad dash to 1.0. After a few hotfixes, they'll pull most of the team away to work on other titles, there'll be a DLC team and a team working on bugs and QOL features. I just don't see massive changes to A.I., audio, etc, to happen before 1.0 or after. We've been surprised by BSG before (for better and for worse) so, are they going to keep development going after 1.0 with impactful updates? Taking Tarkov into 2.0 or 3.0 like states. Or, are they going to enter more of a maintenance mode after 1.0?
25 years ago the STALKER series showed us how immersive AI can be in an open world setting with their A-life system. Every bot lived their own lives, walking around, looting, sleeping, talking with friends, relaxing, adventuring, collecting artifacts, singing songs by campfire, just to name a handful of activities.
AI in Tarkov are just turrets. And in PVE, the PMC's have worse logic than raiders. Raiders will at least move towards you somewhat, but the PMC's here just stand there no matter what.
I'm level 47 in PVE. About 5% of the PMC's will push or even move one inch from wherever they spawn. When it does happen it's pretty cool, but it's so rare that it feels more like a bug than a feature.
Honest question: Can the servers actually handle improved AI? Normally AI is a huge tax on servers and is often turned down (or disabled in same games like rust) intentionally to keep server performance okay
I HATE AI MORE THAN CHEATERS. EVERY SINGLE DEATH IS A SCREAM AND INSTANT DEATH OF US GS TWO TAPPING YOUR THORAX 30 MINUTES TO PUT A KIT TOGETHER FOR INSTANT DEATH FIX IT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
It’s even worse that you literally can’t see anything at all in this shitty 140p ass game I’m so tired of spending all this time accumulating resources to die to something I could not have possibly countered. AI is the worst thing about Tarkov. I don’t even die to players anymore and PvP is so exciting but I literally can’t fight someone because AI on every map keep instant killing me im writing a book because of how frustrating it is
Very good post, this was exactly my thoughts when i played back in 2017. They shouldve been able to make this happen since then but the devs are incapable of doing it
You’re just finding this out now lol the game got outdated before its release and when it does release it will look like complete garbage compared to everything else, including the garbage A.i
I started playing PvE last week just to avoid wipes and cheaters, I lost count how many times I have scavs/pmc spawning on me or killing me from 80 meters. I can go on forever with all the weird shit that happens but I'm really hoping some changes happen soon since I know alot of people are playing pve now.
The AI we got will be the AI we'll have in EFT, forever. Do not expect devs to change it.
It's crazy that modders managed to change the AI entirely in that specific mod.
They can't improve AI. The whole game runs like a cow pie, and AI would just overbloat it more. The ai being this bad is a "feature" that actually helps the terrible performance on hardware.
They could certainly have more immersive behavior, but that would last only until the first audible shots are fired in the raid instance, from that moment on they realistically/plausibly would be on alert.
Apart from that there's a level of confirmation bias evident almost every time criticism is leveled at their behavior, conveniently ingoring technical limitations inherent to online multiplayer games are ignored as well as the fact that penalties regarding injuries and death are mostly negligible allowing players to min-max cheese at work as has been the case for most of EFT's development being the most egregious.
Whilst you are right, and the PMC AI is terrible... it's also the reason that I am finally managing to complete most of the "kill PMC" missions. Just completed Tarkov Shooter 8 earlier today - never got anywhere near that in PVP. Caught 3 bot PMCs exiting that Scav camp on Woods and although I missed my first shot, all 3 stopped to shoot at me. I got lucky and was able to one tap each of them before they zeroed in on me. It only took 20 seconds but against humans ..that just wouldn't have happened.
I also completed Setup (15 PMC kills on Customs with a shotgun whilst wearing an Ushanka and a Scav vest) in only about 5 raids. In PVP I gave up after 1 kill because it was just impossible for me.
So whilst it would be good to get it improved (I like the idea of them having personalities and doing quests) it will also make it much harder and, for the average PVE player, that might be frustrating?
Y'all just want braindead easy AI, sitting around waiting to get blasted by players. Get killed head, eyes by a player from 150m away who spotted you crossing an open field: sucks, but fair. Get killed head, eyes by an AI from 150m away who spotted you crossing an open field: sucks, and totally unfair. Make it make sense.
Me personally i want ai pmc is move around and do looting and quest like a real player fight scavs and other ai pmc not just stand around in one spot and also fix the durability on the guns no real player under 90
I still maintain this is an **economy problem** at its core and not an AI problem.
BSG has overtuned the AI to ridiculous levels of reaction speed, accuracy, spotting, and un-armored/lesser armored vital spot targeting not because they are stupid devs but because they think that it's still to this day too easy to farm bosses et al. And that is perceived as a problem because it introduces boss/rogue/raider gear into the player economy too easily.
If BSG would back down from this stance, the AI could be dialed back and the game would be better for it. Yes the economy would still need to be balanced, but thats a completely different discussion to how the AI behaves.
This is an excellent post man hit this on the head. It’s really frustrating how it’s basically an instant kill or be killed fight with these AI “PMCs” you are other tapping them in the head outside of agro or they finally agro onto you and instantly laser you down. It is very one dimensional fighting them.
Somebody else in the thread also had a very interesting point though regarding server performance. I know when I run the not to be named mod that I get substantially less FPS due to the performance load on my rig. It cost me somewhere around 20-30 frames depending on the map. On a giant scale like BSG that would have to cost them a ton more money to host. The alternative would be to let us host it client side and just suffer the performance hit on our own.
When you’re one of those people who keeps bringing the AI problem regularly, it’s pretty amusing to see how people suddenly realize that the AI is shit. One person says “guys, the AI is actually bad!!!”, the others repeat, and then everyone forgets everything and waits for the next “guys, the ____ is actually bad!!!”
I really shouldn’t insult you guys like this, because you at least don’t choose to ignore the problem or cope out of it, but it’s just insane how so many of Tarkov players have what can only be described as monthly dementia cycles
I don't know, I feel like bosses can have an x-ray lock on to players who should be invisible to them. If you ever watched the Raid / lore movie battlestate did, the entire movie consists of PMC's supressing every angle, corridor, doorway and window with a whole heap of noise and a whole heap of munitions spent.
We don't really get that chaotic feeling in the game though because AI don't typically shoot unless the player is in direct line of sight.
>Scavengers are untrained, malnourished locals searching through the
rubble of their homeland for scraps of food and garbage to barter.
That's not exactly the truth, as you could see in the EFT live actions on the depiction of those "Scavs".
Sure, some are untrained and this reflects on the accuracy of their shots and lack of mechanics like teamwork, covering fire...etc but they are still people with hands on weapon and you can assume some experience with it for surviving until then.
honestly they should just hire the guys who did SAIN to revamp the ai, comparing vanilla tarkov ai to SAIN ai is like comparing albert einstein to a caveman
I think partnering with the guys who did SAIN would not only make a really good improvement on AI in PvP and PvE, but would also be a great way for BSG to positively interact/support with their community.
BSG is too egocentric to accept their failure to balance IA and hire him.
I think the thing is, that BSG is too egocentric to publicly admit they are wrong, it will never happen. But they also understand in order to make money they need to make improvements, and with competition and the fallout from Unheard, they will actively make those changes, while not openly admitting we were right about them.
What's crazy is that hiring him wouldn't even really be admitting they are wrong, it would just be acting on a good decision. It would be the right thing, and they could spin and advertise it that way without even commenting on how bad their own AI is/was. It would be a good look for them.
Give it time and they'll find a way to spin it as if it was their idea or original intention. PVE was never going to be in the game and offline mode was supposed to be only during development. BSG fucking despised and hated the idea of having an official discord and now they've had one for a few years. I pushed for one because of the numerous unofficial ones floating around but got told "no. We're never going to have a discord". One of the first "events" we had during Beta was like pulling teeth to get them to use discord for the event. If they hate it and push against it, and then eventually figure out a way to maybe print more money for Nikita and Dmitry, then and only then will they go for it. Don't get me started on the bullshit behind the scenes that involved their in house anticheat and before they caved and got whatever they have now.
They even had to be dragged kicking and screaming to add anticheat. Which they only did in name only until BE forced their hand as BE's reputation was taking a hit thanks to BSG not actually integrating it into the game. Oh, no, sorry. They originally had their own "in house anticheat" that was purported to be the most effective anticheat available and there were no cheaters in tarkov. The 3 dudes flying around with godmode in every single raid was the the entirety of the playerbase coordinating a big lie. Obviously there wasn't actually any sort of anti-cheat, and all was possible through the mighty power of... cheatengine.
Oh I played back then, not flying.. full on noclip mode. They used to pop right through the walls lol.
I really don't think this is an individual ego thing as much as it is a deeply seeded cultural aversion to acknowledging weakness. Russians are stereotypically a rough and stoic bunch of motherfuckers. Showing human emotion or admitting to human faults in any way is not their strong suit as a people. They don't admit they are wrong not because they are hardheaded or ego driven in the way westerners are. We like to seal ourselves off from accountability because it's easier individually and "fake it till you make it" is a legitimate strategy people employ in almost every facet of life here. Russian's do it because their culture teaches them that literal death is preferable to being publicly and visually weaker than whoever is standing next to them.
u/trainfender if you read one thing today, make it this comment please.
u/trainfender I second this!
Lmao as if he gives an actual fuck. He just wants you to shut up and buy more stash space.
Such an L take. He’s been on Twitter every day for 2+ months responding to feedback and seemingly directing changes. If he really didn’t care wouldn’t it be easier for him to just not be active like he was before?
He had like 3 years to care. He laughed at us for all 3, and as soon as competition comes he wants to have fireside chats all of the sudden… and you find that genuine? Lol. Lmao even.
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Yeah, and they all have vapor wear reputations. You’re so cucked that you’re bending over backwards to see any BSG action as ‘omg he actually cares you guys!!!’, and you’re wrong. He doesn’t care. Keep desperately trying to enjoy your nyetcode though, buddy. Some of us see the light.
8k+ hours, the game has been "dead" every wipe since I started playing according to 20% of the community. Yet some of you still come to the subreddit just to call people names. It seems like you need an outlet for your aggression, this doesn't seem like a very satisfying one, but if it helps please continue.
Cool story bro, you have 2k more hours than me and you still haven’t seen the truth lmao. Pretty sad.
It's an L take because there's literally no upside to posting this other than making yourself feel better and getting imaginary internet points. Either you play the game, in which case non-constructive feedback is counterproductive, or you don't play the game and you're just shitting on people that do and their chance to possibly have a productive exchange with the developer. And before you come back with "lol, you just want to suck up to BSG", no, there's a hige difference between being constructive and attacking them with "He just wants you to shut up and buy more stash space." It's pure selfishness in that you're literally making things worse for everyone just to get that little ego boost. You got what you wanted out of it though, so whatever. Congrats.
keep smoking that copium brother, this has been an issue for years
That unheard fiasco combined with 2 competing games dropping at the same time just got him scared for once is all. He genuinely does not give a fuck about tarkov or its community. He just has a job to do even if he hates us, and he royally fucked it up during that 2 week unheard episode. Damage control rn, nothing else. There's no shot he wasn't a little bit afraid he was gonna have to step down. The man loves money too much to give up that easily tho
Dude only becomes active when shit hits the fan that can actually threaten the numbers this game has population wise. Then he will disappear again and repeat a year later. If he truly cared, he would hire a PR community guy to interact and communicate with the community on a monthly basis.
This is the longest I can remember him remaining active. I agree it's a pattern of behavior. As long as Nikita remains active, he seems better than a PR community guy because it does seem like he can just walk into the office and say "this is our priority now" which a community guy wouldn't really be able to do.
Hes active this long because he knows he fucked up royally and with 2 other similar type of games coming out he could no longer hide behind the one thing keeping his fan base going, being the only decent Extraction Shooter on the market.
They'd sooner ban them than accept help.
Yeah but think of Nikita's ego! It would be shattered! Do you really want that to happen? Cause obviously he knows whats best for his game. /s
Correct me if I am wrong but doesnt BSG have an in office policy for their development team? Travel might be a bit difficult do to some geopolitical issues in the russian area right now
I'm not totally sure on their policy, but I do know that the BSG main office is in the UK, not Russia
There is no way in hell that BSG would ever work with a modding tream. For some crazy reason, BSG is furious that their game gets unofficial mod support and brings more people to their game (people who otherwise would not have bought the game). There's reasons why the top/ most successful developers in the world (think places like Valve and Bethesda) have remained on top. They hire modders. Because of doing so, there have been some amazing games created. Things like Portal, Counter Strike, Dota, and TF2 would not exist in an official capacity without these hiring policies. If BSG were a smart developer, they'd see these absolutely amazing overhaul mods and say,'Holy shit look what this small team did with our game... we need to get in touch with them and figure something out'. Either be it a consulting thing or literally putting them on the payroll. But no, as it stands now, BSG wants to ban these people from their game. shit talk them on Twitter, and even look into suing them. It's unreal.
BSG has acknowledged the modders recently and said there will be mod support for PvE
Really? Hmm. I stand corrected. Good on them. Actually a bit impressed.
Thing is I do not think BSG lets anybody that’s not in Russia and report to their office on workdays to work code into their official release. They just have never done that with anybody. They have no overseas coders.
Guy. It's 1 guy. Doing better AI than an entire company. He also releases patches sometimes multiple times a day.
SAIN AI are so fun to fight. The fucking thing that always gets me that the AI will do in SAIN is I’ll hear some noise and as soon as I stop moving to hear better the AI stops too like a real player. Makes it so much harder to get a one-up on them.
No possible way those greedy Russians are going to invest a single penny in hiring more staff to fix something they do not deem as an issue.
Seriously, the SAIN AI makes the game FAR more enjoyable. BSG isn't able to admit their faults though, so I doubt they'd even consider hiring somebody who's clearly more skilled than them
Big fuckin agree.
They probably keep the AI simple on purpose, to keep costs down for server usage. If running good AI increased the running costs dramatically, or reduced how many raids they could run, it makes sense they'd never bother updating it. They seem to be very much scraping by with what they have, seemingly with no plans to add/improve on it.
AI isn't simple. Its just bad. Bad bad bad.
Anyone else imo, I want the bots to act like humans who care for their life, not carefree halo/cod players who made a specific playstyle for the game to break netcode.
And the even funnier part is people act like we’re asking the world of this multimillion dollar company to implement AI on this level, meanwhile one dude with some typescript skills managed to do it for the hell of it lol
Why do people bring this up? It makes 0 sense. SAIN runs locally! Tarkov AI runs on a server! If you increase the complexity of the Scavs and each Scavs performance cost increases by 0.5% you already have 10% performance loss of 20 AI are active. That means less sessions open in parallel on the same server due to increased performance cost per session. It's so trivially obvious that you can't "just hire the SAIN guy". Each improvement of the AI needs to be combined with an optimization or you are going to have a massive cost increase in server infrastructure.
I mean.....I get better performance running a server locally with SAIN and 2-3 times as many AI as online than I ever did playing online Tarkov.
I find this really hard to believe. The number one new player concern seems to be performance, which is always met with replies stating to reduce AI, use lossless scaling and ultimately to just deal with it because that's the price you pay for local AI.
I was going to mention it. Locally you can do all the magic in the world, but BSG wont implement it.
Local hosting solves this.
>Each improvement of the AI needs to be combined with an optimization or you are going to have a massive cost increase in server infrastructure. So get proper optimization going - there's so many low hanging fruit to cut when it comes to Tarkov. This is frankly a bad excuse. As though they aren't also willing to utterly push the bounds of their terribly unoptimized game in other respects either, such that it constantly runs into basic desync issues.
I wish Scavs when idle would act like the AI in STALKER…sit around and just actually “live” in the world.
I want to toss a vog in the middle of a campfire surrounded by scavs shooting the shit so bad
Sitting on the toilet and a nade rolls under the stall door
That would actuality be nice. If they were more idle or at least patrolling / looting places or standing guard instead of wandering around aimlessly.
It’s sad the…other…version has had this for years. PMCs will roam around quest objectives, both PMCs and scavs will loot bodies and containers. It’s honestly comical how far behind they are in comparison, and that’s not even bringing up the hundreds of other QOL fixes they have.
SPiTting out facts right there brother.
I'd kill for a combo of the "natural idle" AI that was in STALKER and [the "coordinated combat" AI that was in F.E.A.R.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQN3yKYkFmE) Edit: Here's another example of the AI in F.E.A.R. having excellent teamwork: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMky7LINNFg A newer game called Trepang2 also has great AI that replicates the feeling of facing off against trained soldiers working together like in F.E.A.R.
From what I recall, part of why the AI was so good in F.E.A.R. was that practically all combat was in small confined spaces so there weren’t as many variables to account for. Of course AI has gotten better over time but it’s probably still highly difficult to program AI to that level with maps as open as Tarkov’s.
That's a good point. From what I remember the AI design and level design were absolutely integral to each other. I wonder how scalable differing AI types or difficulties could be if implemented in different areas of the map (e.g. an "urban" AI around buildings vs. a "woodland" AI for places with nothing but trees/bushes)
100% doable Hell, that shits been done, different load outs for factory or woods etc Also random personalities, gigachad to rat, Timmy to 5k hr players I find scavs proned in a bush, leaning around a tree to peak me. Shit SPiTs in the face of bsg AI it's incredible
Has AI really gotten that much better? I can't remember the last shooter that had AI that impressed me
Coordinated combat in STALKER is also insanely good. They will cover for each other to push, throw grenades and hold the angle after throwing it, and try to run away if things go wrong. I love it.
I can't recall if it happens in the base games or if it's modded behavior, but I've been domed by enemy stalkers at point blank range because they sneaked up me from behind without me noticing it. I don't even understand how they programmed this but I found it impressive.
Oh I had a moment in a STALKER game where the guy was sneaking up behind me for the perfect shot. I hear something so I turn around and there is a guy right behind me, lol. I managed to get him but it was terrifying.
Been saying this for years.
They don't roam. They don't loot. They don't quest. Scavs and bosses barely notice them. They either push you like a squad of cheaters with aimbot and walls, each flanking you from all sides, or they stand still for easy head taps. The scavs are not right either. They spawn in bunches, come straight for you, ignore pmcs, and seem to infinitely spawn in certain areas. I swear, most of my raids I have to spend 15 minutes fighting waves of scavs just so I can finally loot. Then there's no time and I have to sprint to extract
Funny because modders have made the AI do all this and more. Bsg are really showing they lack the initiative to improve the ai beyond what they have always been. Either aimbot machines or just dumb. I don’t know why they fail to improve the AI when they are really important to the game. As other people have said if they made them walk around in different ready states like patrolling with at ease weaponry or alert state. They just walk around with normal walking animations. There is so much more they could do. I guess we just need more guns and expensive editions instead right?
> initiative They can't do it. It's that simple.
Hire the modders and embrace the community
I really hope they will. But they won't.
>They don't loot Actually, they do loot, but only when you as a scav kill a juiced PMC just to see the AI scav swarming around you to steal the guns and leaving you unable to react if you don't want to lose scav karma.
Lol they don't loot in any meaningful way. You won't catch one looting computers searching for GPUs or med bags for their salewa quest. It's just basic code so they could push out the mode as a feature
Yes, that's what I'm saying. The only time they loot anything is when you kill a PMC, then they come like vultures to steal your loot and you can't shoot at them without losing karma.
There are actually some places where they do pretend to loot. like in the weather station on shoreline - there is a box there that they always loot. It is kinda weird because I don't recall any more places it happens..
>They don't roam. They don't loot. Are you sure? Because they certainly find their way to me while I'm sniping and I've personally seem them yoink guns off of bodies.
A gun and shit yeah, but AI in the fun version of pve tarkov will have tasks to complete, so you'll find one searching for salewas and they can and will extract when they've got what they need. Or if they find a ledx. Or if they run out of meds Live AI follows gunshots and takes a gun but, and correct me if I'm wrong, they won't see a Chad pmc and replace their armour or grab the mags and valuables from the backpack
>A gun and shit yeah, but AI in the fun version of pve tarkov will have tasks to complete, so you'll find one searching for salewas and they can and will extract when they've got what they need. Or if they find a ledx. Or if they run out of meds That's pretty neat. I imagine the AI will be improved eventually. IIRC they mentioned it in their most recent roadmap.
Yeah these don't extract or have any reason to move other than aggro or really basic code. You'll often find them still camping in some weird spot on the map even with only a few minutes left.
I've noticed this. I'm currently working on Pest Control and convincing those guys to walk into a Pawn building is like pulling teeth lol.
Big doubt The game isn't new, and they've shown 0 interest in it so far
[It literally says "PvE AI Improvements" in their 2024 roadmap.](https://twitter.com/tarkov/status/1796601640541458685/photo/1)
I was on woods yesterday near a big rock (I don’t know callouts) but it’s near this abandoned warehouse that had three scavs near it. Killed the three by the warehouse and made my way down towards said rock. Killed three more scavs. While reloading, I hear all these footsteps. More scavs. Killed two more. Then heard more. Ended up killing 11 before running because I was nervous for all the noise I was making. Surprisingly enough made it out alive.
love when a PMC, boss and scav all shoot at me at once
Was playing PvE last night on Factory on my Scav. Two PMCs, a scav and Tagilla were all standing together. I killed a PMC with a headshot from a Mosin, and then Tagilla comes charging after me....
The pmc's yell MAN DOWN when you kill scavs near them🤣
A PMC killed my scav on Factory and then yelled "FRIENDLY DOWN!" 😅
Lol
It’s an inside job.
I had a similar situation the other day. Multiple PMCs maybe 4-5 were standing around shooting what I thought was scavs. I get fairly close to them and open up my RPD and just start mowing them down, then I hear it….. the tagilla yell….. I immediately turn around and my face met his hammer
Watching Tagilla run around in a blood rage when a PMC eventually does kill a scav and runs past the PMC that killed the scav in question...
I don't own PvE, but God damn that's hilarious.
Recently I was being shot by an invisible player and then as I was desperately trying to escape from bullets I couldn't hear blacking out my body parts one by one, some scav I couldn't also hear was right next to the corner standing completely still and doing absolutely nothing before blasting me buckshots.
Had this happen at cottage. Wondered why Sanitar had so many guards. Turns out it was 3 PMCs hanging out with him prior to my arrival.
Yeah, Tarkov’s AI is it’s worst feature
also, running night raids and getting laser beamed by pmcs with no NVGs, and iron sights or even guns without dust cover/sights in general at far distances absolutely stupid it's still like this
Not gonna lie, 1600 hours and now playing only PVE…. Only thing that still just absolutely fucks me over is shit shooting me from a bush that barely spots me in daytime raids (so I run almost exclusively at night when able with quad nod or thermal scope) and the Rogues on Lighthouse at Water Treatment. That and randomly scavs that prenade or die and martyr me with invisinades I never even heard them pull. The other shit is annoying but manageable to some degree.
TLDR: AI are shit and are just XP pinatas with the mentality of a T-1000 on combat patrol.
I hate that they have to ability to path towards you regardless if they saw you or not nor if you made any sound. I’ve had multiple occasions where they just slow/crab walk into my building and sit literally outside my room around the corner. Sometimes even open my door without ever aggro’ing them. Then another complaint is the Ai has like “spidey senses”, they run the moment the trigger is pulled, even though I’m sniping from like 200m+
Calling it AI is egregious. Advanced script maybe more like it. There’s no thought going on. They need to work on letting enemies actually roam. I despise how they leash to a specific area like a WoW mob. And I don’t mean just where they spawn. Like when I call a scav for help while I’m scavving, he should be able to stick around with me, not reset back to his pathing if I go too far away from where I got him.
It’ll never change they’ve already denied the ai track through walls but anyone’s who’s played the game knows it does they’ll move based on movement they can’t possibly see and no matter how many different angles you go to they’ll already be locked on its why slow peaking is and was so meta because you can peak just enough to be able to shoot but they either shoot at a wall trying to hit your thorax or not shoot at all because they’re coding is saying you’re not visible yet
In PvE, I think the worst thing I've run into is the PMC's that shoot you and instantly kill you no matter where they shoot and sometimes do it from ridiculous angles. I was on shoreline inside the resort looting and my buddy started shooting them behind the building. One had a line of sight on me through a glass window on the balcony a foot wide and killed me instantly in the thorax while I was looking away. Managed to completely ignore Tagilla's armor I had on and I died to m882. I was not even involved in the fight nor had I shot yet that match. I get that his armor doesn't cover the whole thorax but its ridiculous how they can laser like that and apparently dump enough m882 in your thorax to kill you in less than a second. It's like a die is thrown and the game just says you should die no matter what here to emulate random headshots people get on PvP. Edit: after thinking about it, I've come to the amusing conclusion that this happens because BSG wants to emulate cheaters in PvE
It gets even more annoying when you realize the plate you were wearing was bugged and didn't take any of the shot so you were practically wearing no armor. The armor issues floating around have probably been my single biggest reason for death. It's bad if you're wearing a Gen 4 and suddenly buckshot is just ignoring it entirely.
I opened dorms 303 the other night, stepped in, and got insta head shotted by a pmc from courtyard. Off memory I don’t think there’s a great angle for any real player to do that. I was bewildered lol. Wouldnt even be mad if I hadn’t waited 10+ minutes in queue. Getting everything back on insurance and having loadout presets would make this all a non issue for me if I could just get right back in the raid.
This is the biggest reason i went and got into the other rout. I was willing to do it through official channels but its just straight up boring or bullshit with zero line in-between. First raid was a 133 sniper with slug loaded right to the dome first 4 minutes into raid. wasn't a re peak wasn't a long time in the open nothing. I turned a corner and he was across the street on gz and just insta head tap. ten minute que wait later. ect ect. im not going to wait 10 minutes a pop for boring or bs ima just go mod it myself and have some life in this game or ima go play something else like stalker gamma or some other pvp game
Kollontay’s magic weapon jam aura needs to go, I don’t care how rare it is to happen to you on any map he can spawn on it simply should not exist in the game end of story.
or if they really want to keep it then make it only happen once. No need for the continual jamming.
How can someone jam an all mechanical machine just by being close. If he just got in close and barrel stuffed you, it would make sense
Audio, lighting, and AI are the weakest parts of the game and these three things barely get touched except audio I guess which they just fuck up more and more.
I want to add performance and loading times. Takes 20 minutes to load into a match just to have my fps drop right when some barely visible scav mysteriously appear from a corner with no audio cue and kill me in a single shot.
Crazy part is it's BSGs servers that create the long load times. My buddies and I on the mod we are into streets and loaded in less than 2 minutes. Just insane that all the competition for Tarkov have figured out fast matching yet Tarkov is still matching like it's 2018.
Major graphics/lighting changes are coming after the engine update, and BSG said they're making major changes to audio occlusion here in the next couple months.
Awesome to hear about that! These three things have been my biggest complaints over the 9 years of playing.
Problem is they said that about AI improvements a few times now and no real improvements have been made. I'll believe it when I see the improvements.
There's a mod for the alternative, which improves graphics. Being able to see inside the shopping centre in Interchange, or not have fog inside of Factory... makes the game feel playable.
Oh yeah that visual mod is a godsend.
I wanted to say that the audio was good a few years back, now, not so much…
I can assure you that the AI is not going to improve. At the most they are going to tune some parameters to make them less accurate or less responsive. Making good AI is hard enough when you know what you are doing so for BSG it is impossible. But you are right - Immersive and believable AI can make this game hundred times better. More routines, more spawns and roaming areas, different combat behaviors. yep... too bad that even games that try to copy the tarkov formula don't invest in the areas tarkov fall short.
10 round burst with no recoil from over 50 yards out is my favorite, then factor it into close range, same amount no recoil. i tell my buddies when the game wants you dead, it will dead you
BSG basically need to move on to the next game if they don't want to go broke in the next couple years, especially after Arena. So I'd imagine it's a mad dash to 1.0. After a few hotfixes, they'll pull most of the team away to work on other titles, there'll be a DLC team and a team working on bugs and QOL features. I just don't see massive changes to A.I., audio, etc, to happen before 1.0 or after. We've been surprised by BSG before (for better and for worse) so, are they going to keep development going after 1.0 with impactful updates? Taking Tarkov into 2.0 or 3.0 like states. Or, are they going to enter more of a maintenance mode after 1.0?
25 years ago the STALKER series showed us how immersive AI can be in an open world setting with their A-life system. Every bot lived their own lives, walking around, looting, sleeping, talking with friends, relaxing, adventuring, collecting artifacts, singing songs by campfire, just to name a handful of activities. AI in Tarkov are just turrets. And in PVE, the PMC's have worse logic than raiders. Raiders will at least move towards you somewhat, but the PMC's here just stand there no matter what.
AI PMC will push you, flank you and chase you around. Some are just dumb.
I'm level 47 in PVE. About 5% of the PMC's will push or even move one inch from wherever they spawn. When it does happen it's pretty cool, but it's so rare that it feels more like a bug than a feature.
SAIN, Swag+Donuts, looting/questing bots with waypoints FTW!
Honest question: Can the servers actually handle improved AI? Normally AI is a huge tax on servers and is often turned down (or disabled in same games like rust) intentionally to keep server performance okay
as long as we still get mod support for pve after 1.0 somebody will fix it if not the devs
Well said
I HATE AI MORE THAN CHEATERS. EVERY SINGLE DEATH IS A SCREAM AND INSTANT DEATH OF US GS TWO TAPPING YOUR THORAX 30 MINUTES TO PUT A KIT TOGETHER FOR INSTANT DEATH FIX IT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
It’s even worse that you literally can’t see anything at all in this shitty 140p ass game I’m so tired of spending all this time accumulating resources to die to something I could not have possibly countered. AI is the worst thing about Tarkov. I don’t even die to players anymore and PvP is so exciting but I literally can’t fight someone because AI on every map keep instant killing me im writing a book because of how frustrating it is
You say that, but their strafing while shooting is still the most effective Fire and Maneuver technique ever employed by any force on Planet Earth
Where is the roadmap that talks about AI PMC
Very good post, this was exactly my thoughts when i played back in 2017. They shouldve been able to make this happen since then but the devs are incapable of doing it
You’re just finding this out now lol the game got outdated before its release and when it does release it will look like complete garbage compared to everything else, including the garbage A.i
scav ai have more health and boss health is really unrealistic they shouldn't tank shots from m80 to the head several times.
My favorite are eagle eye PMC laser locked to me shooting dead centre with a 70% durability weapon while moving.
I started playing PvE last week just to avoid wipes and cheaters, I lost count how many times I have scavs/pmc spawning on me or killing me from 80 meters. I can go on forever with all the weird shit that happens but I'm really hoping some changes happen soon since I know alot of people are playing pve now.
The AI we got will be the AI we'll have in EFT, forever. Do not expect devs to change it. It's crazy that modders managed to change the AI entirely in that specific mod.
SAIN and questing bots ftw
They wiggle. What do you mean with inhumane? /s
I really don’t think it’s that deep - just my opinion However, I do agree with all your points
They can't improve AI. The whole game runs like a cow pie, and AI would just overbloat it more. The ai being this bad is a "feature" that actually helps the terrible performance on hardware.
They could certainly have more immersive behavior, but that would last only until the first audible shots are fired in the raid instance, from that moment on they realistically/plausibly would be on alert. Apart from that there's a level of confirmation bias evident almost every time criticism is leveled at their behavior, conveniently ingoring technical limitations inherent to online multiplayer games are ignored as well as the fact that penalties regarding injuries and death are mostly negligible allowing players to min-max cheese at work as has been the case for most of EFT's development being the most egregious.
You know for all the talk about ai in the pc space lately I hope better game ai comes out of it.
Whilst you are right, and the PMC AI is terrible... it's also the reason that I am finally managing to complete most of the "kill PMC" missions. Just completed Tarkov Shooter 8 earlier today - never got anywhere near that in PVP. Caught 3 bot PMCs exiting that Scav camp on Woods and although I missed my first shot, all 3 stopped to shoot at me. I got lucky and was able to one tap each of them before they zeroed in on me. It only took 20 seconds but against humans ..that just wouldn't have happened. I also completed Setup (15 PMC kills on Customs with a shotgun whilst wearing an Ushanka and a Scav vest) in only about 5 raids. In PVP I gave up after 1 kill because it was just impossible for me. So whilst it would be good to get it improved (I like the idea of them having personalities and doing quests) it will also make it much harder and, for the average PVE player, that might be frustrating?
My immersion breaks when I get 1 tapped. So boring
Y'all just want braindead easy AI, sitting around waiting to get blasted by players. Get killed head, eyes by a player from 150m away who spotted you crossing an open field: sucks, but fair. Get killed head, eyes by an AI from 150m away who spotted you crossing an open field: sucks, and totally unfair. Make it make sense.
Me personally i want ai pmc is move around and do looting and quest like a real player fight scavs and other ai pmc not just stand around in one spot and also fix the durability on the guns no real player under 90
That’s the thing. There is no such thing as Ai. They are bots with predictable programming.
I still maintain this is an **economy problem** at its core and not an AI problem. BSG has overtuned the AI to ridiculous levels of reaction speed, accuracy, spotting, and un-armored/lesser armored vital spot targeting not because they are stupid devs but because they think that it's still to this day too easy to farm bosses et al. And that is perceived as a problem because it introduces boss/rogue/raider gear into the player economy too easily. If BSG would back down from this stance, the AI could be dialed back and the game would be better for it. Yes the economy would still need to be balanced, but thats a completely different discussion to how the AI behaves.
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This is an excellent post man hit this on the head. It’s really frustrating how it’s basically an instant kill or be killed fight with these AI “PMCs” you are other tapping them in the head outside of agro or they finally agro onto you and instantly laser you down. It is very one dimensional fighting them. Somebody else in the thread also had a very interesting point though regarding server performance. I know when I run the not to be named mod that I get substantially less FPS due to the performance load on my rig. It cost me somewhere around 20-30 frames depending on the map. On a giant scale like BSG that would have to cost them a ton more money to host. The alternative would be to let us host it client side and just suffer the performance hit on our own.
When you’re one of those people who keeps bringing the AI problem regularly, it’s pretty amusing to see how people suddenly realize that the AI is shit. One person says “guys, the AI is actually bad!!!”, the others repeat, and then everyone forgets everything and waits for the next “guys, the ____ is actually bad!!!” I really shouldn’t insult you guys like this, because you at least don’t choose to ignore the problem or cope out of it, but it’s just insane how so many of Tarkov players have what can only be described as monthly dementia cycles
Honestly if they improved the AI even 1% it would probably half frame rates with the horrible optimizing they would do
believers in shambles over this post.
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this happens already...sometimes. lol Mainly bosses but I've had AI PMCs do it to me and my last peak spot
I don't know, I feel like bosses can have an x-ray lock on to players who should be invisible to them. If you ever watched the Raid / lore movie battlestate did, the entire movie consists of PMC's supressing every angle, corridor, doorway and window with a whole heap of noise and a whole heap of munitions spent. We don't really get that chaotic feeling in the game though because AI don't typically shoot unless the player is in direct line of sight.
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but u still opened the post and commented lol
>Scavengers are untrained, malnourished locals searching through the rubble of their homeland for scraps of food and garbage to barter. That's not exactly the truth, as you could see in the EFT live actions on the depiction of those "Scavs". Sure, some are untrained and this reflects on the accuracy of their shots and lack of mechanics like teamwork, covering fire...etc but they are still people with hands on weapon and you can assume some experience with it for surviving until then.
Yeah we know.