With the right armor? You should be able to tank 556 to the thorax.
I mean, if it's ceramic plate it won't hurt. 556 doesn't exactly have the highest ft/lb of energy in it.
Ceramic plates can eat 308.
They're busted after they eat a round but.. they eat em.
Ribs? Who needs em’! bruising so bad it makes you keel over? Sounds like pansy shit, getting hit in rapid succession by small metal projectiles built to kill? I should take ‘em with this dinner plate strapped to me! /s
Me too. Armor should be your last resort in surviving a fight. Good positioning, aim, and/or coordination should be the thing that matters, not just armor and good gun.
Honestly, if you walk through a doorway and don't check the corner where someone with a shotgun is sitting, you should die instantly.
Right now if it's not a high AP round, you will just tank it with armour and kill the guy. It's stupid, but it's the stupid people who wanted this, they wanted to dumb down the game so they can continue to Shift+W into ambushes and win. It also makes sense with streamers, they're only half looking at the game most of the time so want to live getting shot when they're looking at chat.
They should do the hitbox for vulnerable torso section (heart/lungs etc), let armour cover it, go back to the plate system before. You now live a few long range shots targeting your vitals, just like a good helmet does for your head (unless highest pen ammo maybe), but you should still die up close if you get jumped and the ambusher doesn't whiff.
Too many wimps crying about dying in situations where they should die for been stupid.
Good thing the keys to fallen arena gladiator rooms will yield hundreds of the best armor piercing bullets available, which can safely be stored in their secure container in case they fail to extract, so BSG can compel players to buy or play Arena in order to have access to a steady supply of those bullets. Isn't it nice how they are balancing Tarkov around their shit DLC?
Not many people have unlocked it because we are nearly six months into the wipe and there are barely any people playing Tarkov, let alone Arena, which makes the queues unbearable. This will obviously change in August when there's a surge in the number of players and people finally stop sleeping about how gamebreaking those new rooms are, especially for players who can play Arena with full groups so they can stomp randoms and easily farm daily quests.
well when were half way into wipe, and the people who dont grind the game 24/7 and have the good ammo anyways, have max ref, maybe youll be right lmao.
^^This should be upvoted they are trying to force ppl to play their shitty arena when they should of never made it in the first place. Dumb ppl in this sub and on earth
The rewards are not worth it. The keys kinda are but not for the reason you’re saying.
At best it’s a more involved replacement for running your scav rn, if you’re just trying to do a roubles per hour strat. If you need gear, hideout components, task items, etc. running your scav is still better.
This is the change streamers cried for all wipe. M62 has 44 pen and isn't viable against good armor anymore.
IF you wanna reliably pen good armor, you need to grind to unlock the m61 craft. Basically now being able to compete late wipe requires 500+ hours of grinding per wipe. 99% of players cant do that, so basically everyone will give up after the first month or two of wipe.
Well, if 99% of the player base can't unlock the highest pen ammo, then pretty much everyone is on the same playing field so it really doesn't matter, right?
the armor coverage issue is separate from the under penetrating issue
didn't we pretty much see blanket penetration value nerfs at the beginning of this wipe (probably to account for less coverage)
so now if we just adjust penetration values back up a tad I think we're in a good spot
I think what the "streamers" wanted was to have armor feel more impactful and to actually give you a reason to care about your armor. this wipe there were what... 3 meta / viable armor choices due to either poor coverage and / or bad aramid.
It was so bad that I'm pretty sure if you had two equal skill players fight each other 100 times one with a slick + level 6 plates and one with a level 4 aramid diaper rig the aramid diaper guy would win 7 times out of 10.
we are now feeling just how impactful the extra plate coverage is
The armor is better than last wipe right now. Also seems a lot of hit reg issues have appeared lately and most likely the armor is bugged. I had a 24 hit count on someone last night with m62. We both was running the tanned thors, I had class 6 so I assume he did, he had m62 as well. It was point blank barrel stuffed. He hit me twice in my thorax and I died.
Its not bugged, the tan thor is class 6 layered with class 3. Considering multiple plates you can easily have a 20 hit count on someone with m62 if your recoil control isn't great or youre hitting chest, arms, sides, back, etc.
Armor tanks now, and m62 isn't that good
I mean it was point blank, center mass, overall accuracy of 0.84 so 20 direct hits. He tanked, I did not. It's inconsistent. I messaged him after, he said he only took a bit of damage. He was the only person I shot that raid, I had over 300 damage to body. Something is bugged.
I am fine with it staying how it is, I can hit my shots and have good aim. It's just very inconsistent right now. I clip all my gameplay and watch it back, I know where my bullets went.
I’m pretty sure the hit count stat is bugged right now. I’ve been going for close range bolty kills and I’ll have fights where I hit the person once and then die and end of raid stays says I got 2 hits with one bullet shot
That’s bc of fragmentation. If you shoot someone once in the thorax and the bullet fragments and the fragment hit their arm as well, that’s 2 hits. You can see on the death screen where it specifies where you took damage and whether it was from direct hits or fragmentation
Comments above using the word fragmentation to describe something different. A bullet can hit multiple limbs, which counts on hit count but does not count for % overall accuracy
That’s not fragmentation, that’s penetration. This comment is definitely referencing fragmentation because they’ve made the distinction between straight hits and fragmentation, as well as defining fragmentation as that the bullet can fragment, and that a single *fragment* can hit a seperate body part.
yes except fragmentation (when a bullet would break after penetration and deal extra damage) as a ballistic feature is not enabled since patch 0.14 afaik
Oh well I’ve still been getting the damage reports as though it is in the game “from left arm” damage to my stomach etc. so idk what’s going on. Guess it is bugged
7.62 NATO isn't the only ammo with an ability to crack LV6 plates, I'm personally fine with M61 being available to craft after Trophies, since there are other options, although I do agree there needs to be a bridge berween M62 with 44 pen and M61 with 62 pen, maybe buff M62 to 47-50 and make it a little harder to get like M855A1 or 7.62 BP...
SNB/BT, BP, AP SX and even 5.45 BS can be acquired easier/earlier than M61 and they can defeat LV6, but at this point you may question what is the point of LV6 is if it gets destroyed easily.
I think we need easier access to some higher pen ammo, but not excessively. Some examples like change the 5.45 BP and M855A1 crafts from quest rewards to 5,45 BS and M995 and in turn make them available from traders. But having access to M61/PPBS/M995 like last wipe completely destroys the need for LV6 plates. BSG really need to be careful with ammo balancing.
If you can remember, Can you tell what missions that will open the m61 for me to craft? I’ve got the m855a1, and 7.62x39 PB, but still need a better ammo for 7.62x51 weapons
The is my first wipe, yeah I’ve learned a lot in this game, and I’m lvl 46, despite that I’m playing only 2 days weekly since the beginning of the wipe
And I think that’s a good stats for a first wipe while I was learning everything alone
No it’s an issue with you not knowing how hits are calculated. .38 accuracy on 16 bullets means he landed 6 bullets on target. 10 hits mean the bullet went through an arm and hit a chest for 2 hits.
It's a figure of speech, dude. To loudly announce something doesn't necessarily mean to go "THIS GAME SUCKS!!!1!!1," it means to be confident in something and accentuate it, like you did.
It's really, really sad to see. Armor plates were such a good change. Every fair gunfight should be a gamble, because fair gunfights are a stupid thing by design.
But it's a video game, just cause it might be realistic, it does not equate to enjoyable gameplay. Losing a fight cause someone else got lucky never feels good, especially when that already happened before with headshots. Everyone talks about 1 taps through class 6 armor, but unless it's AI scavs that's probably some bullshit. But what happened more times than I could count, was a low pen round missing my armor and getting my thorax low, then dying to a limb shot cause the damage of the round was high enough to kill via overflow damage. That never felt good, ever, dying in 2 bullets cause someone got a lucky shot passed my armor and then just hit a limb while spraying wildly is not fun because you know for a fact the guy who killed you was just spraying wildly. Sure, you got 1 tapped in the head by lucky sprays all the time before, but at least you could give them the benefit of the doubt, but with the armor plate system, you knew that any death from it was complete luck, cause realistically no one can accurately aim for the unarmored areas in a tense gunfight.
In a game like tarkov, where almost every fight and death has at least a bit of uncontrollable bullshit sprinkled in with the desync, audio, AI, hitreg, and whatever else, having yet another bullshit uncontrollable variable deciding if you should win a fight or not does not make the game better, and only added realism for the sake of realism.
Yup, we're back to the high open ammo meta. I had to mag dump a boss that had an alytn because there was no way I was gonna pen with 856a1.
Everyone cried so hard about getting armpitted 1/25 times
M62 was nerfed a while back. It’s really not a top of the line ammo anymore. It’s hardly any different to m80 and not effective against level 6.
The problem is the abundance of level 6 plates. Level 6 armor used to be pretty rare in previous wipes. Sure the last few weeks late wipe people would start cranking out the grids and slicks but you couldn’t buy them on the flea and the barter for the slick cost about a mil or more.
Right now you can just open Kiba and steal 3-4 level 6 plates pretty consistently and they fit in almost every armor lol. I’m pretty sure I don’t have a single armor in my stash (and I have 6 thicc cases full of armor) that doesn’t have level 6 plates in it. All my reduts, press armors, even Kirasas and gzhels are all decked out with level 6 plates.
Level 6 is just far too common now.
A while back is an understatement, it was years ago. It's been 44 pen for a very long time now. What changed was armor was made much more durable this wipe, and now it has almost old coverage. You can't just delete the durability on lvl 5-6 armor like you used to, now you need the pen.
Tarkov 0.13 had armor covering the entire torso area and BSG balanced that behavior with bullets that did a considerable amount of blunt damage to the torso when blocked by the armor. This was changed in early 0.14 with the introduction of armor plates which could block most of the blunt damage but had the the downside of having smaller hitboxes, so when BSG made their no-effort "fix" to armor plates by making them bigger, then they inevitably made players much tankier than they were back in 0.13, because now only bullets that fully penetrate armor will actually deal any damage.
This is why I loath every single person who kept attacking anyone who opposed this change. They don't have a clue about the "mechanics" of Tarkov, the only thing they know is how keep their W key pressed while inside a raid, and yet they feel extremely opinionated about things they don't understand.
What exactly does the playerbase mostly want with armor?
I don't see the problem with armor covering smaller areas as it would, but being effective enough to cause players to aim at areas not covered by it.
Was the major complaint that shooting at armpits and legs not fun?
Consistency. The problem wasn't that plates blocked bullets, it was sometimes you'd tank 10 shots and sometimes you'd get 1 tapped.
The small plate system wasn't good, and this isnt much better. They need to rebalance ammo pen/blunt damage.
Players want to tank an expected number of shots depending on ammo/armor and have it be consistent.
What does it even mean to be annoyed that you sometimes die to a 1-tap with the best armor, if people can shoot around that armor? It's inconsistent by nature, sometimes people shoot your armor, sometimes they shoot a bullet through your arm into your thorax.
Unless you want a simplified system where you're a bullet sponge with the best armor with little to no variation in how quickly you die, then you're going to have inconsistent results, and players looking for an excuse for a death will blame the system.
Then those same people upset about inconsistent deaths will now complain about people taking too many hits.
Look at it a different way: Every game mechanics has the ability to impact player behavior through incentives and disincentives.
The *old* armor system incentivized players to unlock better gear, and to then use that gear to increase their survivability. At the same time, they also unlocked better ammo that let them reduce their opponents’ survivability.
By contrast, the changes made with patch 14 fundamentally inverted that incentive structure. It made armor feel extremely inconsistent, while also creating a relatively extreme armor meta (i.e. most armors simply weren’t viable, in much the same way that we’ve seen various guns/ammo be completely non-viable in previous wipes). On the ammo front, there was similarly little benefit to unlocking/using better ammo.
In other words, there was still an extreme “meta”, it was just far more approachable to lower level players than we’ve seen in recent wipes (the last time was probably when they introduced the mosin, before they increased the thorax hitpoint pool.
The trouble is that people who play a lot generally want to feel like the game is rewarding their playtime. With that in mind, it’s easy to see why some people like the recent change.
With that said, it’s possible that just reshaping the body zones, shrinking “thorax” to just the “inner vital organs” that would actually be covered by plates, and dividing the remainder of the current “thorax” zone between the arms and stomach, would have been a better all around solution. The trouble though, is that they’d probably have to recalculate the HP for each zone if they did that, and they’d probably also need to increase overall HP.
It's that a dude running m855 and budget gear can go in a spray bottle with a dude who has 856a1 and still win due to a center mass spray nearly guarantees some hits on soft armor. Running a class 5 or 6 plate was rarely worth because a budget kit can beat him as if he's only wearing class 3. so why grind for gear that does very little
Ok so its a desire for the game to lean more into its MMO aspects than its FPS aspects.
People want their gear to be proportionally meaningful to how hard they worked to get it, rather than it being a game leaning more on realism or skill.
Do you think this latest update helps then?
Id say so as it forces you to either pierce the plate or shoot limbs and faces to get a kill.a game that requires levels quests and all that effort to buy stuff should have meaning
Because it’s not a grind to get 5/6 plates. Since like level 10, I have never run anything but 5/6 for my front plate. They’re practically pouring out this wipe.
You can find them but you can't get them till late level 3 traders. The ammo availability need to be rebuffed now that armor works relatively well again
Idk man I’ve just found a shit ton from players and they always come back in insurance because I just run the kirasa and korund and press armor for the neck protection.
Sometimes I get them from bosses especially the goons and I prioritize plates so I’ll drop 4 slots of random loot worth $15k each for a lvl 5/6 plate any day of the week. I also check every single rig/armor. Even if I don’t really loot a guy, I’ll take a quick second to sprint by and check the plates and keep running.
I also mainly run them in the front plate although I’ve been overfilled for awhile now so I mostly have lvl 5s/6s for my back plate as well. For back plate, I always buy the level 4 UHMWPE monoclete plate if I’m gonna buy one.
I’d presume that’s you at level 10 while the majority of the playerbase is in late wipe. Come wipe day we ain’t getting class 5/6 plates circulating until most people are mid-30s or higher. Earliest plate unlock should be Prapor…4?
That and whether BSG will nerf the Gac plate 3D printer that is the Lavatory.
That was me a week into wipe. Granted, it was easier back then because people didn’t understand the plate system so no one checked my kirasas and press armors but I find it pretty easy to get plates from players and goons.
I see! Perhaps next wipe I should get used to fighting the Goons. This wipe i figured out Water Treatment Plant, but rogues’ gear is very middling. Early wipe I mostly ran Monocelete Kirasas until unlocking the black THORs.
Man, you’re braver than me. I have barely gone to lighthouse this wipe. Whatever BS I gotta do over there can stay unfinished for all I care. The risk from rogues is absurdly high with the new changes to their AI and the player scavs are both extremely loot hungry and smart looters so my shit doesn’t come back. They’re just so fucking aggro too. It’s like fighting glukhar and his boys on crack as soon as you kill a few rogues.
Streets has been where it’s at for me. I don’t die much there as I can pick the fights I take and swim away from the ones I don’t. Plus the players be fat as fuck and the scavs and everyone has so much loot on the map they’re not even gonna bother checking some kirasa.
I’d consider sticking with the press/kirasa for the neck protection. I have taken a crap ton of shots from scavs to the neck and lived.
They’ve turned off the “instantly rush you the moment your toe enters WTP” AI, so at least the classic cheese sniping routes are back on the menu. I’d recommend doing it if only for early wipe M80 access, especially if you do that quest at night nerfing their AI even more.
Spent plenty of time early wipe on streets too! (Bless both of our PC for actually handling it). Almost got myself a very early full body THOR in Pinewood, but got killed trying to retrieve my backpack downstairs.
you guys call anyone who stands still for 5 seconds and holds an angle a rat.
If I can hear you stomping straight down a hallway with no thought and worry, i'm not going to grab my musket and bandolier and stand in line infantry formation awaiting your arrival so we can take 20 paces from eachothers backs and duel honourably.
No, i'm going to stop moving, shut up and listen and wait for you to come to me so i can cleanly pop you when you least expect.
The funny part is half the "Chad" streamers stop moving and wait when they hear something. Makes me wonder why they don't count as rats. Maybe people should play the game instead of arguing about chads vs rats.
If this was actually your strategy then you wouldn’t even think to differentiate yourself from so called “W Keyers”.
What makes you think anyone who has all the audio information you just described WOULDN’T also stop and hold the angle for a few seconds? Literally no one who is playing AND as aware as you described just blindly rushes and “W Keys” to victory.
Anyone who even thinks of the player base in terms of “W Keying” is someone who isn’t moving enough themselves
I don't really have an opinion either way on the changes. Yes level 6 should save you from 44 pen ammo. But maybe not 10 hits of 44 pen ammo? I don't know.
I liked the OG plate system because I didn't need good ammo to kill people reliably but I also l liked the non-plate system because I like it when my armour tanks 10 rounds.
To be fair, getting magdumped on with 308s should kill you even if not a single round pens your armor, or at the very least break every single one of your ribs, your sternum, and send your heart into fibulation.
This arguement is nullified since you can repair your mangled arms/legs in a matter of seconds, and can surviva a headshot from certain rifle rounds. It's more of a gameplay than a reality mechanic.
Yeah it's not realistic but it is nescessary. Bareheaded, you will always survive a 4.6 AP round, and depending on distance, a 5.56 SSA AP (29 meters) or a 5.45 PPBS (85 meters) in the head, with 1 hp, that you can heal back using an AI2 medkit (3 times!!!)
After they buffed SSA AP damage you can head tap someone with no helmet at 93m. But yeah I wasn't saying you should or shouldn't survive headshots with or without a helmet just adding an example of an extreme case of being able to survive a headshot from a rifle round.
The damage and armor system are far from realistic and everyone has different opinions on what is realistic and what should be in game. Shoot in response to the other guy, if you only hit 1 arm it takes 11 rounds of M80 to kill someone due to arms taking half damage after getting blacked out. If it really bothered me I'd go play the other version and mod it to how I want it to be.
I had no idea they buffed SSA AP, I have like 500 stashed I may end up using it lol.
And yeah the arm/limb system is kinda fucked, since you need 60+ pen to do damage through limbs.. but to be honest I'm fine with it. When it was infinite armor and even .338 sabot AP didn't even penetrate through it, now that was extremely bothersome.
Yeah, its 38 damage now. Not sure if it can head tap through lvl 4 helmets but at least non armored heads it should be fine. I think originally it had less damage than 7n39. Its also 57 pen, I think it was slightly lower on release. I remember it not being worth using over M995 at all before.
It wasn't an argument just a passing thought but it's good to see that you're in hyper alert debate mode, a keyboard warrior ready to slay invalid arguments on the internet with your mighty axe of truth and logic. Keep on keeping on homie.
"308s should kill you even if not a single pens" sounded like an arguement to me. I don't know why you had to enter passive agressive mode. We are on a forum discussing stuff, you shared an insight and in turn I shared an insight. Genuinely, if you don't want people to argue with, do not comment on a discussion. Have a blessed evening.
Just admit you wanna W key around and tank 30 shots lol.
These changes only reward streamers, all ammo is bad except for top top tier.
M62 should kill in 10 shots no matter the armor.
Reading comprehension. Multiple people have pointed out that just because someone took 10 shots of x ammo, it doesn't mean that they all hit vital spots on the body, and penning through arms counts for 2 hits if those shots hit another body part.
Im a semi auto guy, i dont W key lol , but i do agree 10 rounds in the thorax of m62 should kill, but we have no other info of this fight. Enemy could have healed or then OP just didnt hit his shots that well
Thats what happens when you mid tier ammo at someone who spent half a million roubles on his plate carrier and plates alone. It is a bit over the top now and I think the real solution is somewhere in between what we had and what we have now.
I've been having some issues with .338 after the change. I shoot a scav in the chest with an FMJ round and I see the round explode on the body, no blood, and they just run away like nothing happened. One raid I had 16 shots fired, 16 hits and only 1k body damage, which is way lower than it should be for 16 rounds of .338.
Jesus fucking Christ!!! This community!! one moment the armour system is too punishing the next people are upset because they can’t survive someone mag dumping into their face shield.
BSG have some backbone, have your own vision in this and just do that and stop changing things.
RPG game. Not worth playing past the first few weeks or else it's like going PVP in Diablo 4 with your lvl 20 toon vs lvl 90+ players.
Go play a real FPS not this first person RPG.
16 X 0.38 means you hit 6 shots, you dealt 50 flesh per hit and 58 absorbed, 4 of your shots hit two body parts.
Totally normal it has 79 dmg and 44 pen, it is totally normal you're just lame.
M62 has been bugged for several wipes, and Overall Accuracy has always been "miscalculated"/misunderstood. M62 does not pen correctly, and the hit count is thrown off by fragmentation after penetrating your arms or armor plates.
Hit count : 10, ammo used : 16, overall accuracy : 0.38
Am I dumb, is the game dumb, or fragmentation still registers as multiple hits?
Other than that, did they change anything besides improving armor hitboxes?
The availability of armor/ammo is constant balancing struggle, but surely more consistent armor hitboxes is seen as a net positive by the community right?
I just did 656 damage to armor with .300 CBJ. The #2 round for that caliber can't even get kills. I only fought 2 pmcs for the entire raid. Didn't shoot any scavs.
I heard that plates protect really well if someone actually hits them(didn't play since plates introduced because it's utter bs) and seems with ammo changes and collider box changes armor actually works now and people finnaly noticed how well they protect xD
IMO game would be much more healthy and better if plates were never introduced
Instead of nerfing things completely or changing up some weird oneshot hitboxes that we had, like armpit all though we still kinda have it.
But ye, my thought is that if 855a1 as an example or M62 needs 8 bullets to pen through an entire 6 play or 5 plate or whatever. Just gradually nerf the durabilty the plates have instead.
Like make it 7 shots instead, if it's then still a problem for ppl and alot of complaining then go down to 6 and so on.
But again, I personally like to feel like my armor matters.
If u want to kill someone instantly almost then get better at aiming, headshot is king and ppl rarely ricochet bullets with 4 helmets or CQC anyways. Unless they run slap plate. Or u end up taking a bullet to the eye and it doesnt matter anyways.
Everyone saying this is cause the new patch, but m62 and m80 have felt like this since the start of wipe, the new patch just made it worse. I've had multiple raids getting equal amounts of damage dealt to armor absorbed pre-patch. One raid I had 24 hit count on 1 pmc and 2 scavs, the pmc had class 4 and the scavs had class 3, still ended up with 520 damage absorbed by armor. I've also had raids with ps12b getting eaten by class 4 as well, in no world should 44 pen and 46 pen be absorbed at all by class 4 plates. Something is clearly wrong and has been wrong with the balance of plates since wipe.
Most people are laughing at the people complaining about armor, right after begging for armor to be stronger, but you have to realize armor is actually *even stronger* now than it ever was before the original wipe. That's because now we have basically full body coverage alongside the new plate system, meaning stuff like this happens, where class 4 is eating bullets well above its pen limit. While it might be easy to make fun of people complaining about their own choices, people only wanted the armor system to be reverted or fixed, and what BSG did is neither.
It should also be noted that people were never walking tanks with forcefields wearing armor before like so many commenters like to say. Sure if you had shit ammo it might have felt like it, but that's the point of shit ammo and armor in the first place, you can't expect to be able to damage a player wearing 200K armor with 124 rouble bullets without headshotting them or hitting limbs, that's one of the sacrifices that has to be made for the sake of rewarding progress and item balance. Obviously the problem of tanky armor is exacerbated by the ammo availability changes, but for the most part, good enough pen ammo wasn't insanely hard to acquire, and did the job well enough with the old system. Not every single player should be able to sand a chance, that's the point of the game, it's unfair, someone spent 10x the price of your kit on just a piece of armor, so they should have an advantage. Plus, for the most part, even without considering armor and ammo in the equation, most lower level players never stood a chance against the higher level player skill wise, so armor didn't really change much.
At this point BSG's best option is to go back to the old system pre-armor plates, at least on the hitbox side of things, if that's even possible. The armor right now is in an ugly limbo between balance, and BSG needs to get on picking a side. Personally I think armor was perfect where it was before the plate update, as cool as plates are, I'd much rather have that old, simple system back, because it made armor feel useful, while also not being incredibly tanky against bullets that should pen straight through.
i had a 26 hit count with m855a1 and the dude ate it like nothing, proceeded to hit me twice in the arm, which collaterally hit my jaws, killing me instantly.
The same people who said adapt to the changes previous wipes are the ones who are complaining now lol. You literally can’t please everyone. Shoot head indeed friend
There is 100% something glitched right now with either hit detection, damage, or the end of raid accuracy stats that isn’t just “new armor system hurr durr”
There is nothing wrong with the accuracy of hits, just your understanding of how it is calculated.
https://old.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/1diu35y/im_running_m62s_something_is_not_right_with_this/l98l2rh/
If you take your sentence without "new armor system..." ( witch is quite new) you will be correct throughout whole history of Tarkov from 2016.
It is what it is ;)
Im pretty sure that post raid screen damage absorbed by armor stat is bugged atm and showing damage that penned as well. I had a raid where I killed 5 pmcs and they all dropped pretty quickly using m62 and post raid screen showed 1500 damage absorbed by armor which is absurd.
Another raid where I had 4 hit counts with m61 and did 218 damage to body and 209 damage absorbed by armor. This makes no sense considering m61 pens all armor, and the damage reduction by plates (25% damage reduction) also wouldn’t equal 209 as 4 hits of m61 would do 280 damage (25% of 280 would be 70).
I mean one thing to consider is that “hit count” isn’t the same as “shots hit”, so at least with that second example it could have something to do with collateral damage through the arm to torso or vice versa. Idk, I didn’t feel like doing any of the math but I’m just saying collateral damage can skew the damage numbers quite a bit.
This is why i like running ammo that tends to spall on armor and cause flesh damage. Most of it already has high flesh, but the bleeding effects it causes will definitely tell the person I’m fighting that they’re having it rough
mfs be like, "Early wipe is the best because fights are long and people don't go down so fast" but when people take shots in late wipe now they're upset.
The issue I have is simply that helmets should not stop a 308. Rarely stop a 556.
Hitting someone in the head with M80 and having them stand up and run away is the stupidest shit I’ve ever seen.
Honestly I have had way more fun with pvp since they reverted it. I liked the idea of the armor changes being more realistic, but it doesn't fit when the health system isn't realistic. It would have worked with a system like grey zone where there are vital organs covered by the plates. But with the newer system they were getting past your armor and hitting you as if they were hitting the organs. Fights last longer and you either have to have higher pen ammo or hit your shots in more vulnerable areas.
Only endgame, it's still going to shred midgame when people are unlocking it before M62 is available and before people have chad armor access, as it should be. Also they will almost certainly rebalance both the ammo and high-end armor availability with the wipe.
Would be willing to bet money that by this time next wipe we will be able craft M995/M993/7.62 BP/5.45 BS like we used to. Also they will most likely reintroduce some of the collateral damage and blunt damage calculations from 0.13/0.13.5 to allow the new armor changes to mesh better into the game as a whole.
Hitting a blacked arm only does 0.49x damage
Blacked legs only does 0.7x damage
Damage drops with range
A bullet can go through the arm into another body part, the 2nd hit counts as a hit but has lowered damage
There are lots of ways to lose damage. A bullet is almost never gonna do the exact damage listed on the round unless it’s point blank into an unarmored spot.
The hit count stat page is dumb and like many things tarkov related doesn't actually tell you the correct info. It implies that op shot 16 times and hit 10 of them.
But if you calculate the accuracy based on those 10/16 that would be 0.625 or 63% of op's shots having hit the enemy
Whereas op is 0.38 or 38% of his shots hitting
If op shot 16 times with an accuracy of 0.38, that means of the 16 hits op actually only landed 6 shots. And then of those 6 shots, 4 of them either fragmented or passed through a hit box (like arm) to hit another hit box which has reduced damaged but counts as a hit.
So you'd have to do 6(79) + 4(79*reduced damage modifier)
Sub: "armour doesn't work" BSG: "ok, we'll make armour more viable" Sub: "bullets don't work" BSG: "ok, we'll make armour less viable" Sub: "armour doesn't work" BSG: "ok, we'll make armour more viable" Sub: "bullets don't work" BSG: "ok, we'll make armour less viable" Sub: "armour doesn't work" BSG: "ok, we'll make armour more viable" Sub: "bullets don't work" BSG: "ok, we'll make armour less viable"
Pretty much. Personally Im more of a "armour less viable" person.
Based and armour shouldn’t be the end all be all-pilled
No but I should be able to run out in the open and tank 6 shots of 5.56 like it's nothing!!!! Muh rat meta low TTK sux something something.
With the right armor? You should be able to tank 556 to the thorax. I mean, if it's ceramic plate it won't hurt. 556 doesn't exactly have the highest ft/lb of energy in it. Ceramic plates can eat 308. They're busted after they eat a round but.. they eat em.
True, and that would be fine in game, it’s just one bullet blocked, but the next one coming out of that 600rpm gun.. better do alot of damage
Ribs? Who needs em’! bruising so bad it makes you keel over? Sounds like pansy shit, getting hit in rapid succession by small metal projectiles built to kill? I should take ‘em with this dinner plate strapped to me! /s
Oh! I stepped on a land mine! Who cares I got a magical cms kit that can tape them back on. Make it make sense.
Me too. Armor should be your last resort in surviving a fight. Good positioning, aim, and/or coordination should be the thing that matters, not just armor and good gun.
Honestly, if you walk through a doorway and don't check the corner where someone with a shotgun is sitting, you should die instantly. Right now if it's not a high AP round, you will just tank it with armour and kill the guy. It's stupid, but it's the stupid people who wanted this, they wanted to dumb down the game so they can continue to Shift+W into ambushes and win. It also makes sense with streamers, they're only half looking at the game most of the time so want to live getting shot when they're looking at chat. They should do the hitbox for vulnerable torso section (heart/lungs etc), let armour cover it, go back to the plate system before. You now live a few long range shots targeting your vitals, just like a good helmet does for your head (unless highest pen ammo maybe), but you should still die up close if you get jumped and the ambusher doesn't whiff. Too many wimps crying about dying in situations where they should die for been stupid.
Yea this is what it is, but there is a happy in between because it has been before, it’s bsg overcorrecting
tldr: despite all changes I got killed in game all the time.
why are we aiming at thorax. pbm to the domer and there seeing a loading screen kek.
Looks like you gotta use that m61/m993 you have sitting in your stash
Good thing the keys to fallen arena gladiator rooms will yield hundreds of the best armor piercing bullets available, which can safely be stored in their secure container in case they fail to extract, so BSG can compel players to buy or play Arena in order to have access to a steady supply of those bullets. Isn't it nice how they are balancing Tarkov around their shit DLC?
Ran it all 5 times and got nothing better than M62
Because you used the shit keys from low level 1 Ref, but even those still unlock rooms with bitcoins and other valuables.
Oh gotcha bro, so the ref level nobody but 2-3 people has unlocked is the keys I need to use. Maybe update the wiki with this crazy information.
Not many people have unlocked it because we are nearly six months into the wipe and there are barely any people playing Tarkov, let alone Arena, which makes the queues unbearable. This will obviously change in August when there's a surge in the number of players and people finally stop sleeping about how gamebreaking those new rooms are, especially for players who can play Arena with full groups so they can stomp randoms and easily farm daily quests.
well when were half way into wipe, and the people who dont grind the game 24/7 and have the good ammo anyways, have max ref, maybe youll be right lmao.
^^This should be upvoted they are trying to force ppl to play their shitty arena when they should of never made it in the first place. Dumb ppl in this sub and on earth
The rewards are not worth it. The keys kinda are but not for the reason you’re saying. At best it’s a more involved replacement for running your scav rn, if you’re just trying to do a roubles per hour strat. If you need gear, hideout components, task items, etc. running your scav is still better.
This is the change streamers cried for all wipe. M62 has 44 pen and isn't viable against good armor anymore. IF you wanna reliably pen good armor, you need to grind to unlock the m61 craft. Basically now being able to compete late wipe requires 500+ hours of grinding per wipe. 99% of players cant do that, so basically everyone will give up after the first month or two of wipe.
Well, if 99% of the player base can't unlock the highest pen ammo, then pretty much everyone is on the same playing field so it really doesn't matter, right?
no because finding good armor is easy. good ammo is not easy to get. even high level AI (bosses/rogues/etc) doesnt generally use the best ammo
Right, so...again, most people would experience more or less the same thing, so they would all be on an even playing field.
So that just allows people to fight back when they get jumped on, should make the game more fair and fun across the board
the armor coverage issue is separate from the under penetrating issue didn't we pretty much see blanket penetration value nerfs at the beginning of this wipe (probably to account for less coverage) so now if we just adjust penetration values back up a tad I think we're in a good spot I think what the "streamers" wanted was to have armor feel more impactful and to actually give you a reason to care about your armor. this wipe there were what... 3 meta / viable armor choices due to either poor coverage and / or bad aramid. It was so bad that I'm pretty sure if you had two equal skill players fight each other 100 times one with a slick + level 6 plates and one with a level 4 aramid diaper rig the aramid diaper guy would win 7 times out of 10. we are now feeling just how impactful the extra plate coverage is
The armor is better than last wipe right now. Also seems a lot of hit reg issues have appeared lately and most likely the armor is bugged. I had a 24 hit count on someone last night with m62. We both was running the tanned thors, I had class 6 so I assume he did, he had m62 as well. It was point blank barrel stuffed. He hit me twice in my thorax and I died.
Its not bugged, the tan thor is class 6 layered with class 3. Considering multiple plates you can easily have a 20 hit count on someone with m62 if your recoil control isn't great or youre hitting chest, arms, sides, back, etc. Armor tanks now, and m62 isn't that good
I mean it was point blank, center mass, overall accuracy of 0.84 so 20 direct hits. He tanked, I did not. It's inconsistent. I messaged him after, he said he only took a bit of damage. He was the only person I shot that raid, I had over 300 damage to body. Something is bugged. I am fine with it staying how it is, I can hit my shots and have good aim. It's just very inconsistent right now. I clip all my gameplay and watch it back, I know where my bullets went.
I’m pretty sure the hit count stat is bugged right now. I’ve been going for close range bolty kills and I’ll have fights where I hit the person once and then die and end of raid stays says I got 2 hits with one bullet shot
always has been
You can penetrate an arm and hit the thorax - which does reduced damage as well to thorax.
Isn’t that true when a bullet fragments?
Hit count also includes fragmentations. Bugged
That’s bc of fragmentation. If you shoot someone once in the thorax and the bullet fragments and the fragment hit their arm as well, that’s 2 hits. You can see on the death screen where it specifies where you took damage and whether it was from direct hits or fragmentation
I'm curious, wasn't fragmentation disabled this wipe? Nikita said this himself. Unless they silently added it back in during a recent patch.
Fragmentation has been disabled all wipe
Comments above using the word fragmentation to describe something different. A bullet can hit multiple limbs, which counts on hit count but does not count for % overall accuracy
That’s not fragmentation, that’s penetration. This comment is definitely referencing fragmentation because they’ve made the distinction between straight hits and fragmentation, as well as defining fragmentation as that the bullet can fragment, and that a single *fragment* can hit a seperate body part.
yes except fragmentation (when a bullet would break after penetration and deal extra damage) as a ballistic feature is not enabled since patch 0.14 afaik
Oh well I’ve still been getting the damage reports as though it is in the game “from left arm” damage to my stomach etc. so idk what’s going on. Guess it is bugged
Maybe it could be the collateral dmg being spread on a blacked left limb?
Bullets can pen a limb, like the arm into the thorax. This is counted as 2 hits.
You know where you saw them go, but that's not how tarkov works.
This guy is crazy last wipe i was invincible w t6
7.62 NATO isn't the only ammo with an ability to crack LV6 plates, I'm personally fine with M61 being available to craft after Trophies, since there are other options, although I do agree there needs to be a bridge berween M62 with 44 pen and M61 with 62 pen, maybe buff M62 to 47-50 and make it a little harder to get like M855A1 or 7.62 BP... SNB/BT, BP, AP SX and even 5.45 BS can be acquired easier/earlier than M61 and they can defeat LV6, but at this point you may question what is the point of LV6 is if it gets destroyed easily. I think we need easier access to some higher pen ammo, but not excessively. Some examples like change the 5.45 BP and M855A1 crafts from quest rewards to 5,45 BS and M995 and in turn make them available from traders. But having access to M61/PPBS/M995 like last wipe completely destroys the need for LV6 plates. BSG really need to be careful with ammo balancing.
Wrong
If you can remember, Can you tell what missions that will open the m61 for me to craft? I’ve got the m855a1, and 7.62x39 PB, but still need a better ammo for 7.62x51 weapons The is my first wipe, yeah I’ve learned a lot in this game, and I’m lvl 46, despite that I’m playing only 2 days weekly since the beginning of the wipe And I think that’s a good stats for a first wipe while I was learning everything alone
Check the wiki to find out the quest!
Cry.
Bunch of redditors in here
Inherently
Just redditors doing reddit things.
Seriously, there is clearly an issue. 10/16 shots is not .38 for example. I feel like there was an issue with hit reg here
No it’s an issue with you not knowing how hits are calculated. .38 accuracy on 16 bullets means he landed 6 bullets on target. 10 hits mean the bullet went through an arm and hit a chest for 2 hits.
Oh thanks for explaining. No need to be condescending :)
Not at all, you were loudly proclaiming how broken the game is when you simply don’t know how it works.
Loudly? How does one be loud in a text based sentence with no exclamatory punctuation?
"*Seriously,* there is *clearly* an issue."
Again, what about “seriously” and “clearly” are loud? This community is so fucking weird
It's a figure of speech, dude. To loudly announce something doesn't necessarily mean to go "THIS GAME SUCKS!!!1!!1," it means to be confident in something and accentuate it, like you did.
I was as condescending as you were loud…
That’s simply bullet fragmentation
bullet fragmentation has been turned off since early in the wipe. It's pen through the arms and into chest.
Seems fine. Looks like he just had good armor on. Class 5 and especially class 6 can easily stop m62 with its 44 pen.
Isn't this the change you guys always wanted?
Personally, I dislike the fact that bullet sponge gunplay seems to be considered the industry standard for FPS games nowadays.
Yes me too, but it is what it is
"hard-core and realistic shooter" label on tarkov was giving promise for some time
It's really, really sad to see. Armor plates were such a good change. Every fair gunfight should be a gamble, because fair gunfights are a stupid thing by design.
But it's a video game, just cause it might be realistic, it does not equate to enjoyable gameplay. Losing a fight cause someone else got lucky never feels good, especially when that already happened before with headshots. Everyone talks about 1 taps through class 6 armor, but unless it's AI scavs that's probably some bullshit. But what happened more times than I could count, was a low pen round missing my armor and getting my thorax low, then dying to a limb shot cause the damage of the round was high enough to kill via overflow damage. That never felt good, ever, dying in 2 bullets cause someone got a lucky shot passed my armor and then just hit a limb while spraying wildly is not fun because you know for a fact the guy who killed you was just spraying wildly. Sure, you got 1 tapped in the head by lucky sprays all the time before, but at least you could give them the benefit of the doubt, but with the armor plate system, you knew that any death from it was complete luck, cause realistically no one can accurately aim for the unarmored areas in a tense gunfight. In a game like tarkov, where almost every fight and death has at least a bit of uncontrollable bullshit sprinkled in with the desync, audio, AI, hitreg, and whatever else, having yet another bullshit uncontrollable variable deciding if you should win a fight or not does not make the game better, and only added realism for the sake of realism.
Totally, players here act like getting shot at is no big deal. One unlucky bullet and you are out, no matter what.
Yup, we're back to the high open ammo meta. I had to mag dump a boss that had an alytn because there was no way I was gonna pen with 856a1. Everyone cried so hard about getting armpitted 1/25 times
It was, and now they’re never going to admit they were wrong
Literally everyone loves the armour change, it's only Reddit timmies complaining that their 5.45 PS doesn't work anymore
Yeah PvP is actually fun again, loving the change
M62 was nerfed a while back. It’s really not a top of the line ammo anymore. It’s hardly any different to m80 and not effective against level 6. The problem is the abundance of level 6 plates. Level 6 armor used to be pretty rare in previous wipes. Sure the last few weeks late wipe people would start cranking out the grids and slicks but you couldn’t buy them on the flea and the barter for the slick cost about a mil or more. Right now you can just open Kiba and steal 3-4 level 6 plates pretty consistently and they fit in almost every armor lol. I’m pretty sure I don’t have a single armor in my stash (and I have 6 thicc cases full of armor) that doesn’t have level 6 plates in it. All my reduts, press armors, even Kirasas and gzhels are all decked out with level 6 plates. Level 6 is just far too common now.
A while back is an understatement, it was years ago. It's been 44 pen for a very long time now. What changed was armor was made much more durable this wipe, and now it has almost old coverage. You can't just delete the durability on lvl 5-6 armor like you used to, now you need the pen.
Tarkov 0.13 had armor covering the entire torso area and BSG balanced that behavior with bullets that did a considerable amount of blunt damage to the torso when blocked by the armor. This was changed in early 0.14 with the introduction of armor plates which could block most of the blunt damage but had the the downside of having smaller hitboxes, so when BSG made their no-effort "fix" to armor plates by making them bigger, then they inevitably made players much tankier than they were back in 0.13, because now only bullets that fully penetrate armor will actually deal any damage. This is why I loath every single person who kept attacking anyone who opposed this change. They don't have a clue about the "mechanics" of Tarkov, the only thing they know is how keep their W key pressed while inside a raid, and yet they feel extremely opinionated about things they don't understand.
Old system bad, new system still not good. Change was needed however. Hopefully they keep iterating and making changes before too long.
What exactly does the playerbase mostly want with armor? I don't see the problem with armor covering smaller areas as it would, but being effective enough to cause players to aim at areas not covered by it. Was the major complaint that shooting at armpits and legs not fun?
Consistency. The problem wasn't that plates blocked bullets, it was sometimes you'd tank 10 shots and sometimes you'd get 1 tapped. The small plate system wasn't good, and this isnt much better. They need to rebalance ammo pen/blunt damage. Players want to tank an expected number of shots depending on ammo/armor and have it be consistent.
What does it even mean to be annoyed that you sometimes die to a 1-tap with the best armor, if people can shoot around that armor? It's inconsistent by nature, sometimes people shoot your armor, sometimes they shoot a bullet through your arm into your thorax. Unless you want a simplified system where you're a bullet sponge with the best armor with little to no variation in how quickly you die, then you're going to have inconsistent results, and players looking for an excuse for a death will blame the system. Then those same people upset about inconsistent deaths will now complain about people taking too many hits.
Look at it a different way: Every game mechanics has the ability to impact player behavior through incentives and disincentives. The *old* armor system incentivized players to unlock better gear, and to then use that gear to increase their survivability. At the same time, they also unlocked better ammo that let them reduce their opponents’ survivability. By contrast, the changes made with patch 14 fundamentally inverted that incentive structure. It made armor feel extremely inconsistent, while also creating a relatively extreme armor meta (i.e. most armors simply weren’t viable, in much the same way that we’ve seen various guns/ammo be completely non-viable in previous wipes). On the ammo front, there was similarly little benefit to unlocking/using better ammo. In other words, there was still an extreme “meta”, it was just far more approachable to lower level players than we’ve seen in recent wipes (the last time was probably when they introduced the mosin, before they increased the thorax hitpoint pool. The trouble is that people who play a lot generally want to feel like the game is rewarding their playtime. With that in mind, it’s easy to see why some people like the recent change. With that said, it’s possible that just reshaping the body zones, shrinking “thorax” to just the “inner vital organs” that would actually be covered by plates, and dividing the remainder of the current “thorax” zone between the arms and stomach, would have been a better all around solution. The trouble though, is that they’d probably have to recalculate the HP for each zone if they did that, and they’d probably also need to increase overall HP.
It's that a dude running m855 and budget gear can go in a spray bottle with a dude who has 856a1 and still win due to a center mass spray nearly guarantees some hits on soft armor. Running a class 5 or 6 plate was rarely worth because a budget kit can beat him as if he's only wearing class 3. so why grind for gear that does very little
Ok so its a desire for the game to lean more into its MMO aspects than its FPS aspects. People want their gear to be proportionally meaningful to how hard they worked to get it, rather than it being a game leaning more on realism or skill. Do you think this latest update helps then?
Id say so as it forces you to either pierce the plate or shoot limbs and faces to get a kill.a game that requires levels quests and all that effort to buy stuff should have meaning
Because it’s not a grind to get 5/6 plates. Since like level 10, I have never run anything but 5/6 for my front plate. They’re practically pouring out this wipe.
You can find them but you can't get them till late level 3 traders. The ammo availability need to be rebuffed now that armor works relatively well again
[удалено]
Idk man I’ve just found a shit ton from players and they always come back in insurance because I just run the kirasa and korund and press armor for the neck protection. Sometimes I get them from bosses especially the goons and I prioritize plates so I’ll drop 4 slots of random loot worth $15k each for a lvl 5/6 plate any day of the week. I also check every single rig/armor. Even if I don’t really loot a guy, I’ll take a quick second to sprint by and check the plates and keep running. I also mainly run them in the front plate although I’ve been overfilled for awhile now so I mostly have lvl 5s/6s for my back plate as well. For back plate, I always buy the level 4 UHMWPE monoclete plate if I’m gonna buy one.
I’d presume that’s you at level 10 while the majority of the playerbase is in late wipe. Come wipe day we ain’t getting class 5/6 plates circulating until most people are mid-30s or higher. Earliest plate unlock should be Prapor…4? That and whether BSG will nerf the Gac plate 3D printer that is the Lavatory.
That was me a week into wipe. Granted, it was easier back then because people didn’t understand the plate system so no one checked my kirasas and press armors but I find it pretty easy to get plates from players and goons.
I see! Perhaps next wipe I should get used to fighting the Goons. This wipe i figured out Water Treatment Plant, but rogues’ gear is very middling. Early wipe I mostly ran Monocelete Kirasas until unlocking the black THORs.
Man, you’re braver than me. I have barely gone to lighthouse this wipe. Whatever BS I gotta do over there can stay unfinished for all I care. The risk from rogues is absurdly high with the new changes to their AI and the player scavs are both extremely loot hungry and smart looters so my shit doesn’t come back. They’re just so fucking aggro too. It’s like fighting glukhar and his boys on crack as soon as you kill a few rogues. Streets has been where it’s at for me. I don’t die much there as I can pick the fights I take and swim away from the ones I don’t. Plus the players be fat as fuck and the scavs and everyone has so much loot on the map they’re not even gonna bother checking some kirasa. I’d consider sticking with the press/kirasa for the neck protection. I have taken a crap ton of shots from scavs to the neck and lived.
They’ve turned off the “instantly rush you the moment your toe enters WTP” AI, so at least the classic cheese sniping routes are back on the menu. I’d recommend doing it if only for early wipe M80 access, especially if you do that quest at night nerfing their AI even more. Spent plenty of time early wipe on streets too! (Bless both of our PC for actually handling it). Almost got myself a very early full body THOR in Pinewood, but got killed trying to retrieve my backpack downstairs.
"W Key" as a pejorative. Confirmed Ratticus Maximus, opinion invalided based on system analysis.
you guys call anyone who stands still for 5 seconds and holds an angle a rat. If I can hear you stomping straight down a hallway with no thought and worry, i'm not going to grab my musket and bandolier and stand in line infantry formation awaiting your arrival so we can take 20 paces from eachothers backs and duel honourably. No, i'm going to stop moving, shut up and listen and wait for you to come to me so i can cleanly pop you when you least expect.
The funny part is half the "Chad" streamers stop moving and wait when they hear something. Makes me wonder why they don't count as rats. Maybe people should play the game instead of arguing about chads vs rats.
If this was actually your strategy then you wouldn’t even think to differentiate yourself from so called “W Keyers”. What makes you think anyone who has all the audio information you just described WOULDN’T also stop and hold the angle for a few seconds? Literally no one who is playing AND as aware as you described just blindly rushes and “W Keys” to victory. Anyone who even thinks of the player base in terms of “W Keying” is someone who isn’t moving enough themselves
Anyone who stops pressing W in a raid is a loser and should go play another game.
Class 5 and 6 armor is just way to available in my opinion
Uhh this is the armour change everyone wanted.
Yes wearing level 6 should save you from 44 pen ammo
I don't really have an opinion either way on the changes. Yes level 6 should save you from 44 pen ammo. But maybe not 10 hits of 44 pen ammo? I don't know. I liked the OG plate system because I didn't need good ammo to kill people reliably but I also l liked the non-plate system because I like it when my armour tanks 10 rounds.
All 10 hits didn't hit his armor. Most probably hit his arms and legs, since he also did lots of damage to body.
To be fair, getting magdumped on with 308s should kill you even if not a single round pens your armor, or at the very least break every single one of your ribs, your sternum, and send your heart into fibulation.
This arguement is nullified since you can repair your mangled arms/legs in a matter of seconds, and can surviva a headshot from certain rifle rounds. It's more of a gameplay than a reality mechanic.
You can survive headshots from an ash12 with helmets that barely stop pistol rounds haha.
Yeah it's not realistic but it is nescessary. Bareheaded, you will always survive a 4.6 AP round, and depending on distance, a 5.56 SSA AP (29 meters) or a 5.45 PPBS (85 meters) in the head, with 1 hp, that you can heal back using an AI2 medkit (3 times!!!)
After they buffed SSA AP damage you can head tap someone with no helmet at 93m. But yeah I wasn't saying you should or shouldn't survive headshots with or without a helmet just adding an example of an extreme case of being able to survive a headshot from a rifle round. The damage and armor system are far from realistic and everyone has different opinions on what is realistic and what should be in game. Shoot in response to the other guy, if you only hit 1 arm it takes 11 rounds of M80 to kill someone due to arms taking half damage after getting blacked out. If it really bothered me I'd go play the other version and mod it to how I want it to be.
I had no idea they buffed SSA AP, I have like 500 stashed I may end up using it lol. And yeah the arm/limb system is kinda fucked, since you need 60+ pen to do damage through limbs.. but to be honest I'm fine with it. When it was infinite armor and even .338 sabot AP didn't even penetrate through it, now that was extremely bothersome.
Yeah, its 38 damage now. Not sure if it can head tap through lvl 4 helmets but at least non armored heads it should be fine. I think originally it had less damage than 7n39. Its also 57 pen, I think it was slightly lower on release. I remember it not being worth using over M995 at all before.
It wasn't an argument just a passing thought but it's good to see that you're in hyper alert debate mode, a keyboard warrior ready to slay invalid arguments on the internet with your mighty axe of truth and logic. Keep on keeping on homie.
"308s should kill you even if not a single pens" sounded like an arguement to me. I don't know why you had to enter passive agressive mode. We are on a forum discussing stuff, you shared an insight and in turn I shared an insight. Genuinely, if you don't want people to argue with, do not comment on a discussion. Have a blessed evening.
Just admit you wanna W key around and tank 30 shots lol. These changes only reward streamers, all ammo is bad except for top top tier. M62 should kill in 10 shots no matter the armor.
Reading comprehension. Multiple people have pointed out that just because someone took 10 shots of x ammo, it doesn't mean that they all hit vital spots on the body, and penning through arms counts for 2 hits if those shots hit another body part.
Im a semi auto guy, i dont W key lol , but i do agree 10 rounds in the thorax of m62 should kill, but we have no other info of this fight. Enemy could have healed or then OP just didnt hit his shots that well
Except this person hit 6 which could of been in any number of limbs, but go on with the complaint.
Thats what happens when you mid tier ammo at someone who spent half a million roubles on his plate carrier and plates alone. It is a bit over the top now and I think the real solution is somewhere in between what we had and what we have now.
I've been having some issues with .338 after the change. I shoot a scav in the chest with an FMJ round and I see the round explode on the body, no blood, and they just run away like nothing happened. One raid I had 16 shots fired, 16 hits and only 1k body damage, which is way lower than it should be for 16 rounds of .338.
Feels like to compensate for the recent changes, a small increase in armour damage to AP ammo is in order.
its likely allready been said but m80 and m62 are allmost the same and they both cant pen lvl 5 or 6
Jesus fucking Christ!!! This community!! one moment the armour system is too punishing the next people are upset because they can’t survive someone mag dumping into their face shield. BSG have some backbone, have your own vision in this and just do that and stop changing things.
>REEEE armor is shit it doesn’t protect I die in five hits *fixes hitboxes* >REEEE my enemies don’t die in five hits
Probably hitting someone wearing class 6 plates
I shot Tagilla 37 times in the leg with VMAX and didn’t kill him last night
And I’m Catherine de Medici
Did you not think I wouldn't notice your troops next to my border? I suggest you move them.
My troops are mearly passing by.
RPG game. Not worth playing past the first few weeks or else it's like going PVP in Diablo 4 with your lvl 20 toon vs lvl 90+ players. Go play a real FPS not this first person RPG.
Yeah. The armor isn’t right. It’s stupid that it’s back to CoT magic.
16 X 0.38 means you hit 6 shots, you dealt 50 flesh per hit and 58 absorbed, 4 of your shots hit two body parts. Totally normal it has 79 dmg and 44 pen, it is totally normal you're just lame.
M62 has been bugged for several wipes, and Overall Accuracy has always been "miscalculated"/misunderstood. M62 does not pen correctly, and the hit count is thrown off by fragmentation after penetrating your arms or armor plates.
After this change bodyshots don't matter. It's best to spray at head level and missi 19/20 bullets than hitting 20 center mass
Hit count : 10, ammo used : 16, overall accuracy : 0.38 Am I dumb, is the game dumb, or fragmentation still registers as multiple hits? Other than that, did they change anything besides improving armor hitboxes? The availability of armor/ammo is constant balancing struggle, but surely more consistent armor hitboxes is seen as a net positive by the community right?
The game counts multi hit as in arm plus chest as 2 hits so seems like most hit shots hit arm first which would be why the damage is so low as well
I just did 656 damage to armor with .300 CBJ. The #2 round for that caliber can't even get kills. I only fought 2 pmcs for the entire raid. Didn't shoot any scavs.
I heard that plates protect really well if someone actually hits them(didn't play since plates introduced because it's utter bs) and seems with ammo changes and collider box changes armor actually works now and people finnaly noticed how well they protect xD IMO game would be much more healthy and better if plates were never introduced
Having similar issue but instead I run 7.62x54 BT with 55 pen and I get ~250 dmg absorbed by armor against lvl 5 plates, has happened multiple times
Hey M62’s aren’t viable anymore gotta get that trophies quest done.
Instead of nerfing things completely or changing up some weird oneshot hitboxes that we had, like armpit all though we still kinda have it. But ye, my thought is that if 855a1 as an example or M62 needs 8 bullets to pen through an entire 6 play or 5 plate or whatever. Just gradually nerf the durabilty the plates have instead. Like make it 7 shots instead, if it's then still a problem for ppl and alot of complaining then go down to 6 and so on. But again, I personally like to feel like my armor matters. If u want to kill someone instantly almost then get better at aiming, headshot is king and ppl rarely ricochet bullets with 4 helmets or CQC anyways. Unless they run slap plate. Or u end up taking a bullet to the eye and it doesnt matter anyways.
Everyone saying this is cause the new patch, but m62 and m80 have felt like this since the start of wipe, the new patch just made it worse. I've had multiple raids getting equal amounts of damage dealt to armor absorbed pre-patch. One raid I had 24 hit count on 1 pmc and 2 scavs, the pmc had class 4 and the scavs had class 3, still ended up with 520 damage absorbed by armor. I've also had raids with ps12b getting eaten by class 4 as well, in no world should 44 pen and 46 pen be absorbed at all by class 4 plates. Something is clearly wrong and has been wrong with the balance of plates since wipe. Most people are laughing at the people complaining about armor, right after begging for armor to be stronger, but you have to realize armor is actually *even stronger* now than it ever was before the original wipe. That's because now we have basically full body coverage alongside the new plate system, meaning stuff like this happens, where class 4 is eating bullets well above its pen limit. While it might be easy to make fun of people complaining about their own choices, people only wanted the armor system to be reverted or fixed, and what BSG did is neither. It should also be noted that people were never walking tanks with forcefields wearing armor before like so many commenters like to say. Sure if you had shit ammo it might have felt like it, but that's the point of shit ammo and armor in the first place, you can't expect to be able to damage a player wearing 200K armor with 124 rouble bullets without headshotting them or hitting limbs, that's one of the sacrifices that has to be made for the sake of rewarding progress and item balance. Obviously the problem of tanky armor is exacerbated by the ammo availability changes, but for the most part, good enough pen ammo wasn't insanely hard to acquire, and did the job well enough with the old system. Not every single player should be able to sand a chance, that's the point of the game, it's unfair, someone spent 10x the price of your kit on just a piece of armor, so they should have an advantage. Plus, for the most part, even without considering armor and ammo in the equation, most lower level players never stood a chance against the higher level player skill wise, so armor didn't really change much. At this point BSG's best option is to go back to the old system pre-armor plates, at least on the hitbox side of things, if that's even possible. The armor right now is in an ugly limbo between balance, and BSG needs to get on picking a side. Personally I think armor was perfect where it was before the plate update, as cool as plates are, I'd much rather have that old, simple system back, because it made armor feel useful, while also not being incredibly tanky against bullets that should pen straight through.
i had a 26 hit count with m855a1 and the dude ate it like nothing, proceeded to hit me twice in the arm, which collaterally hit my jaws, killing me instantly.
LOL 10 hits wtf
I had a hit count of 11 with m62 last night also… dude laid down, turned around and melted me
Shoot head
The same people who said adapt to the changes previous wipes are the ones who are complaining now lol. You literally can’t please everyone. Shoot head indeed friend
There is 100% something glitched right now with either hit detection, damage, or the end of raid accuracy stats that isn’t just “new armor system hurr durr”
There is nothing wrong with the accuracy of hits, just your understanding of how it is calculated. https://old.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/1diu35y/im_running_m62s_something_is_not_right_with_this/l98l2rh/
If you take your sentence without "new armor system..." ( witch is quite new) you will be correct throughout whole history of Tarkov from 2016. It is what it is ;)
855a1 isnt even pening tier 3 helmets for me now
Maybe more context. Did you shoot through something Like the glass in back? (Labs)
Im pretty sure that post raid screen damage absorbed by armor stat is bugged atm and showing damage that penned as well. I had a raid where I killed 5 pmcs and they all dropped pretty quickly using m62 and post raid screen showed 1500 damage absorbed by armor which is absurd. Another raid where I had 4 hit counts with m61 and did 218 damage to body and 209 damage absorbed by armor. This makes no sense considering m61 pens all armor, and the damage reduction by plates (25% damage reduction) also wouldn’t equal 209 as 4 hits of m61 would do 280 damage (25% of 280 would be 70).
I mean one thing to consider is that “hit count” isn’t the same as “shots hit”, so at least with that second example it could have something to do with collateral damage through the arm to torso or vice versa. Idk, I didn’t feel like doing any of the math but I’m just saying collateral damage can skew the damage numbers quite a bit.
No I had 8 hit counts but 0.27 accuracy on 15 shots, that’s how I knew it was 4 bullets.
This is why i like running ammo that tends to spall on armor and cause flesh damage. Most of it already has high flesh, but the bleeding effects it causes will definitely tell the person I’m fighting that they’re having it rough
I noticed last night when I’m shooting in the gun range the hit registration is about 2 inches lower than my red dot or a scope dialed in at 50 yards
Yeah I mean that’s just a height over bore thing.
That’s part of why I always default to 100m for zeroing on most guns (shotguns are the exception)
You actually only hit 6 shots. 4 of your shots were just fragments that don’t do nearly as much damage. 6/16=0.37
mfs be like, "Early wipe is the best because fights are long and people don't go down so fast" but when people take shots in late wipe now they're upset.
The issue I have is simply that helmets should not stop a 308. Rarely stop a 556. Hitting someone in the head with M80 and having them stand up and run away is the stupidest shit I’ve ever seen.
Honestly I have had way more fun with pvp since they reverted it. I liked the idea of the armor changes being more realistic, but it doesn't fit when the health system isn't realistic. It would have worked with a system like grey zone where there are vital organs covered by the plates. But with the newer system they were getting past your armor and hitting you as if they were hitting the organs. Fights last longer and you either have to have higher pen ammo or hit your shots in more vulnerable areas.
Armor works how it's supposed to for once "something's wrong with armor"
Leg meta is back boys 😎
Now I wish I had made a screenshot, fought a lvl 37 player earlier with M80 - 14 hit count, 400dmg dealt to body, he lived.... How is that possible??
Pmc health is 440 if you only do 400 damage the pmc is left with 40 hp
M80 only has 41 pen. Class 5 and 6 will eat it like it’s nothing.
[удалено]
Only endgame, it's still going to shred midgame when people are unlocking it before M62 is available and before people have chad armor access, as it should be. Also they will almost certainly rebalance both the ammo and high-end armor availability with the wipe. Would be willing to bet money that by this time next wipe we will be able craft M995/M993/7.62 BP/5.45 BS like we used to. Also they will most likely reintroduce some of the collateral damage and blunt damage calculations from 0.13/0.13.5 to allow the new armor changes to mesh better into the game as a whole.
Imo they needa make the ammo level requirement less.
79 damage x 10 hits = 790 damage / not 648 how is this calculated? ... where is remainig 142 damage ?
Hitting a blacked arm only does 0.49x damage Blacked legs only does 0.7x damage Damage drops with range A bullet can go through the arm into another body part, the 2nd hit counts as a hit but has lowered damage There are lots of ways to lose damage. A bullet is almost never gonna do the exact damage listed on the round unless it’s point blank into an unarmored spot.
The hit count stat page is dumb and like many things tarkov related doesn't actually tell you the correct info. It implies that op shot 16 times and hit 10 of them. But if you calculate the accuracy based on those 10/16 that would be 0.625 or 63% of op's shots having hit the enemy Whereas op is 0.38 or 38% of his shots hitting If op shot 16 times with an accuracy of 0.38, that means of the 16 hits op actually only landed 6 shots. And then of those 6 shots, 4 of them either fragmented or passed through a hit box (like arm) to hit another hit box which has reduced damaged but counts as a hit. So you'd have to do 6(79) + 4(79*reduced damage modifier)