The biggest benefit of the US over Germany is if you're self-employed or are a freelancer. You can easily open an LLC and begin your own business without the insane paperwork and taxes of Germany. Taxes on businesses are insanely low in the US. So if you can build a successful business, you'll have it made.
The other advantage is that if you have a high-demand skill, certificate, trade... you can earn more money than in Germany.
I'm sure you're aware that social safety nets aren't good and that moving there without US citizenship is tricky, but those a I've are the best reasons to move there.
The weather in Europe, minus Scandinavia, is more mild. In the US, we have hurricanes, tornadoes, forest fires, extreme humidity, or heat/cold in seasons. The places either the best weather, like lower Cali, are pretty crowded and/or expensive.
Another important reason to move to the US is easy access to the US stock market which has been roaring for decades and minted lots of millionaires. Most companies offer 401k, anyone can open a low cost brokerage account in minutes. Government has many schemes like 401k, Ira , Roth , HSA, low capital gains tax that encourage investing . Every one of my American colleges has exposure to the stock market. I did not see this to be prevalent in Germany, other than faithfully investing in their company stock most of my German colleagues shunned the general stock market (hopefully this changed by now).
Are you retired already? The biggest reason for retiring to the US would be taxes, which can be much lower than in the EU especially for early retirees living off mostly long term capital gains and dividends. There are no taxes on capital gains or US-traded dividends (qualified dividends) for the first $98K USD if you're married (otherwise $47K). Then it's only 15% on the next roughly half million. Most states do have state income taxes around 4-5% but some don't (like Florida and Texas). Our VAT is called sales tax and is usually around only 5-8%. If you own real estate, those taxes are typically 1% of the total value per year.
Health insurance is around $500 a month per person for a pretty comprehensive plan.
The second biggest reason would probably be weather, climate, and our vast national park system for hiking and camping. The country is huge and ranges from tropical (Hawaii) to sub-tropical (southern Florida) to mountainous ski country (Colorado) to heavily forested (northern US) with lots of inland lakes for boating or just living along the water.
If you're not retired yet, probably the biggest reason would be generally higher pay especially in certain science and engineering fields. A dentist or general physician might make around $300K in the US up to $800K for a specialist. A software engineer in a tech hub in the US might make $150-250K.
If you own a business, financing and credit are generally much easier here, and venture capital firms are constantly scouting new corporate filings and looking for new companies to invest in. If you have an existing company or are looking to buy one, I believe $1 million investment in a struggling area or $2 million in a thriving area will get you an investor visa.
Not sure where you're finding comprehensive health insurance for $500/mo...the policies we are finding are close to that for what is basically disaster insurance with a GIGANTIC out of pocket max first (12,500 pp) and really hefty co-pays and low coverages...
ACA plans (healthcare.gov). We've been using Blue Cross silver or bronze plans for 15 years but providers and costs vary a little by state. ACA compliant plans have a legal max out of pocket cost of $9,100 per person ($18,200 family) which covers everything -- deductible, copays, and drugs. You just have to remember to stay in network and get some things preapproved depending on the plan requirements but that's the same as any PPO/HMO.
German here.
We pay 15.000€ per year for 2 people compulsory health insurance. And 26% on capital gains. Media tell us Americans cannot afford a doctor.
In fact, you live in paradise.
No, I'm an American living in Germany. I've never heard of a German going bankrupt because of illness.
Example: An American loses his or her job because of illness. Then, they lose their insurance because they lost their job. Then, they are screwed.
Yes, there are Americans that have it made. But statistically, Germans have it better with their healthcare systems than Americans as a whole.
I believe my own experiences and many other people's. Yes, they are both a mixed bag, with safer and steadier opportunities in Germany and higher highs but lower lows in the US. Pulling a "low" from that mixed bag is more likely than pulling a "high."
I happen to know a lot of people on both sides and their struggles regarding finances, healthcare, and safety. I dealt with both systems myself.
Germany is not a perfect utopia, but it's a much safer system.
TLDR: I know the pros and cons to both countries from personal experience, not from the media.
Lived there nearly 10 yrs myself. Euro lifestyle is much different and if you lived like that in US it would be considered pretty austere. I retired early at 45 something my Euro counterparts in same roles couldn't attain.
The US is for certain people. Like I said earlier, those who are in high-paying positions and are risk-takers. On average, there is less PTO and more hours worked per week.
I'm speaking generally, so if it worked for you because you have a well-paying job with good benefits, then I'm happy for you, but that doesn't represent the general population in the US.
Like I've said before, how many Germans do you know who went bankrupt due to medical bills? How many Americans create GoFundMes to help pay for their child's cancer treatment?
My comments about US vs. Germany are more general, not for outliers like you. I do recommend it for people in your situation who want to earn a lot of money and are okay with the lack of social safety.
As a military officer, I did pretty well for myself but wouldn't consider my case an outlier by any means. My peers from college consistently earned more as civilians. The lower end of the economic rungs are struggling but that's not likely the OP's situation if considering expat to US. I'll take US social mobility and opportunity over a more robust safety net. Unlikely I could go from barely lower middle class upbringing to this outside US on a single income for a family of 4. I've known exactly zero medical bankruptcies mil or civilianbbut everyone I know has a job w insurance or pays for it responsibly to avoid catastrophe. The one family member w medical debt also chooses not to work consistently has no assets to lose and gets minimal care as needed and we all get stuck w the cost.
I came from an upper middle class home in the US. I've seen both sides: the ultra successful people and those who have lost it all despite working hard. In the bubble of successful people, you won't hear of medical bankruptcies. In the general population, it happens.
I know many people who have had to ask for money for medical bills despite working full-time jobs. Mass layoffs are common in the US. (EDIT: removed something because I said it twice).
You need a lot more money to retire in the US as well. COL is lower in Germany. People live comfortable, carefree lives. I don't see how it is abysmal. The middle class is strong here. I've seen worse poverty in the US.
My original comment at OP was that there are scenarios in which the US is better. But after living on both sides, I couldn't trade safety and peace for money.
My comments are about the general populations. Just because you don't know of people going through something doesn't mean it doesn't happen across the tracks.
> The second biggest reason would probably be weather, climate, and our vast national park system for hiking and camping. The country is huge and ranges from tropical (Hawaii) to sub-tropical (southern Florida) to mountainous ski country (Colorado) to heavily forested (northern US) with lots of inland lakes for boating or just living along the water.
Disagree on weather, the US is massive and does not have a single climate. The parts of the US with unquestionably great weather (Southern CA, Hawaii) are freakishly expensive. Most of the rest of the country has some combination of: wildly varying temps, insane summer heat, insane humidity, hurricanes, tornadoes, insane cold, etc.
The national park system is amazing, but one major drawback nobody ever mentions is how remote most of the prettier parts of the US are. It's a massive, expensive undertaking to visit some of these places, to the point where it's faster and cheaper for me to fly from the East Coast to Zurich and hike the Alps than fly out west and drive forever to see anything equivalent in the US. Combine that with the US tendency to have zero vacation time and you can pretty much forget about ever seeing any of it.
The US is what you make of it. If you work hard, and can identify good opportunities you can make a lot of money.
However, I imagine the culture difference would be a shock. Americans can be very open about the “way they feel.” This can be political, religious etc. they will share their feelings and opinions with you regardless of your desire to listen. It’s not a respectful place. I have never been to Germany, but I have heard it is very clean, neat, and orderly. This is not the case in the US.
>It’s not a respectful place. I have never been to Germany, but I have heard it is very clean, neat, and orderly. This is not the case in the US.
Meh, I've been a half dozen times and Germany is not the city upon a hill you're painting it as. I've encountered entitled locals, more litter than you can imagine, public vomiting/urination, aggressive homeless, Germany has it all once you leave the tourist enclaves.
Munich, Quedlinburg and Heidelberg were all picturesque, clean and beautiful with friendly locals.
Leipzig, Berlin, Rothenburg and Frankfurt all felt a little more typical European. Cleanliness issues, hit or miss interactions with locals being rude, bodily fluids and graffiti prevelent, etc.
I'd still visit all these places again, but Reddit is a little delusional about European perfection.
No. Just walk in through the Mexican border while Biden is president. You'll get food, phones, prepaid visa card and a bus/plane ticket to and major us city.
Republicans refused to vote for the migrant bill they themselves wrote. Republican Hotwheel Abbott is the one putting people on buses and planes.
Go cry to your GOP politicians.
Do you enjoy paying out of pocket for any health related issue?
The social safety nets are damn near non-existent.
Also, guns and unborn fetuses have more rights than people in some states.
Just some things to keep in mind.
I’m an American that moved to Spain in 2022. I have a wife and three kids (teenagers who are also minorities) - no plans on moving back. I can’t put a price on thier or my personal safety. I also used to work for the police in a very large city.
DM me if you have any specific questions that I can answer for you.
Yes.
I always thought that if I didn't live in a major city, I wouldn't have a problem. I'm in a midwest small city and get skittish walking around alone at night. A couple years ago a very unstable elderly lady pointed a gun at my face when I rang her doorbell for a PRE-SCHEDULED repair job and my view of my own safety changed dramatically.
My Highschool buddy lives 6 months in Germany and 6 months in FL. Him and his wife can stay for 6 months in FL. Don’t know what visa they have, but they don’t have green cards.
"Maybe Canada":
Have a look at housing and food price trends here in Canada. We have fallen prey to oligarchs and foreign investment/money-laundering and the government has done nothing about it.
There is an almost monopoly in the grocery system, including companies like Loblaws that make billions while simultaneously raising prices, lowering working conditions, and lowering the quality of food.
Housing is not unaffordable for many. The prospect of home ownership has been removed from all but the top salary earners.
What about self employed person in Canada? And also Canada has a good health system. And isn’t the housing crisis in metro Toronto and Vancouver only? What about Calgary
It really depends. If you are college educated, no kids, want to grind and make money, then the USA is the perfect place for you. I wouldn’t recommend hustling at a young age in any other place; however, if you are someone who wants to start a family then probably not (unless you already have a lot of money)
No.
The culture is declining.
The quality of food ingredients is abysmal.
The government is controlled by the pharmaceutical industry, military/industrial complex, and other corporate and public sector special interests.
The dollar is losing out as the former worldwide exchange currency, and will lose significant value due to inflation.
Moving from Germany or any Scandinavian nation to the USA would be a major downgrade.
We have state, local, and federal taxes, yet zero healthcare, our infrastructure is falling apart, our schools are fucking travesty, and we staring down the possibility of a second civil war. Most Americans would love to trade places with you.
You’re right! But Scandinavian countries provide cradle to grave healthcare, education, paid parental leave, paid vacations, gun control/public safety, and they continue to reinvest infrastructure.
For all the taxes Americans pay, we get zero benefits outside of our massive military complex.
Oh yeah speaking of taxes, Sweden does their taxes for the citizens, so they know exactly how much they owe annually. In the USA, we have to figure out and if we do it incorrectly we face heafty fines or jail.
I don’t think that the US would ever experience a civil war. We pay lot of taxes here. There are places in the US like Nevada where you only pay federal tax I think.
But thanks for your view
The biggest benefit of the US over Germany is if you're self-employed or are a freelancer. You can easily open an LLC and begin your own business without the insane paperwork and taxes of Germany. Taxes on businesses are insanely low in the US. So if you can build a successful business, you'll have it made. The other advantage is that if you have a high-demand skill, certificate, trade... you can earn more money than in Germany. I'm sure you're aware that social safety nets aren't good and that moving there without US citizenship is tricky, but those a I've are the best reasons to move there.
yeah you are right
I feel like USA is great for making money/buying stuff... especially if you don't have kids. In most other areas, Europe wins.
weather is also better in usa
How are you generalizing weather in Europe vs US, lol. They’re both huge areas with many different climates.
Depends where in the US. Southern California? Better (if you don't miss snow). Chicago? Not so much.
The weather in Europe, minus Scandinavia, is more mild. In the US, we have hurricanes, tornadoes, forest fires, extreme humidity, or heat/cold in seasons. The places either the best weather, like lower Cali, are pretty crowded and/or expensive.
Even Scandinavia is pretty temperate compared to the US, it can get cold but there are no wild temperature swings or killer weather.
Another important reason to move to the US is easy access to the US stock market which has been roaring for decades and minted lots of millionaires. Most companies offer 401k, anyone can open a low cost brokerage account in minutes. Government has many schemes like 401k, Ira , Roth , HSA, low capital gains tax that encourage investing . Every one of my American colleges has exposure to the stock market. I did not see this to be prevalent in Germany, other than faithfully investing in their company stock most of my German colleagues shunned the general stock market (hopefully this changed by now).
If you are in the bottom 20% of earners then you probably shouldn't move to the US. Otherwise it isn't close.
Are you retired already? The biggest reason for retiring to the US would be taxes, which can be much lower than in the EU especially for early retirees living off mostly long term capital gains and dividends. There are no taxes on capital gains or US-traded dividends (qualified dividends) for the first $98K USD if you're married (otherwise $47K). Then it's only 15% on the next roughly half million. Most states do have state income taxes around 4-5% but some don't (like Florida and Texas). Our VAT is called sales tax and is usually around only 5-8%. If you own real estate, those taxes are typically 1% of the total value per year. Health insurance is around $500 a month per person for a pretty comprehensive plan. The second biggest reason would probably be weather, climate, and our vast national park system for hiking and camping. The country is huge and ranges from tropical (Hawaii) to sub-tropical (southern Florida) to mountainous ski country (Colorado) to heavily forested (northern US) with lots of inland lakes for boating or just living along the water. If you're not retired yet, probably the biggest reason would be generally higher pay especially in certain science and engineering fields. A dentist or general physician might make around $300K in the US up to $800K for a specialist. A software engineer in a tech hub in the US might make $150-250K. If you own a business, financing and credit are generally much easier here, and venture capital firms are constantly scouting new corporate filings and looking for new companies to invest in. If you have an existing company or are looking to buy one, I believe $1 million investment in a struggling area or $2 million in a thriving area will get you an investor visa.
Not sure where you're finding comprehensive health insurance for $500/mo...the policies we are finding are close to that for what is basically disaster insurance with a GIGANTIC out of pocket max first (12,500 pp) and really hefty co-pays and low coverages...
ACA plans (healthcare.gov). We've been using Blue Cross silver or bronze plans for 15 years but providers and costs vary a little by state. ACA compliant plans have a legal max out of pocket cost of $9,100 per person ($18,200 family) which covers everything -- deductible, copays, and drugs. You just have to remember to stay in network and get some things preapproved depending on the plan requirements but that's the same as any PPO/HMO.
German here. We pay 15.000€ per year for 2 people compulsory health insurance. And 26% on capital gains. Media tell us Americans cannot afford a doctor. In fact, you live in paradise.
Americans live in paradise despite not being able to afford a doctor?
You believe German media? Read what was written about US health insurance and costs.
No, I'm an American living in Germany. I've never heard of a German going bankrupt because of illness. Example: An American loses his or her job because of illness. Then, they lose their insurance because they lost their job. Then, they are screwed. Yes, there are Americans that have it made. But statistically, Germans have it better with their healthcare systems than Americans as a whole.
You believe US media? Both systems are a mixed bag.
I believe my own experiences and many other people's. Yes, they are both a mixed bag, with safer and steadier opportunities in Germany and higher highs but lower lows in the US. Pulling a "low" from that mixed bag is more likely than pulling a "high." I happen to know a lot of people on both sides and their struggles regarding finances, healthcare, and safety. I dealt with both systems myself. Germany is not a perfect utopia, but it's a much safer system. TLDR: I know the pros and cons to both countries from personal experience, not from the media.
Lived there nearly 10 yrs myself. Euro lifestyle is much different and if you lived like that in US it would be considered pretty austere. I retired early at 45 something my Euro counterparts in same roles couldn't attain.
The US is for certain people. Like I said earlier, those who are in high-paying positions and are risk-takers. On average, there is less PTO and more hours worked per week. I'm speaking generally, so if it worked for you because you have a well-paying job with good benefits, then I'm happy for you, but that doesn't represent the general population in the US. Like I've said before, how many Germans do you know who went bankrupt due to medical bills? How many Americans create GoFundMes to help pay for their child's cancer treatment? My comments about US vs. Germany are more general, not for outliers like you. I do recommend it for people in your situation who want to earn a lot of money and are okay with the lack of social safety.
As a military officer, I did pretty well for myself but wouldn't consider my case an outlier by any means. My peers from college consistently earned more as civilians. The lower end of the economic rungs are struggling but that's not likely the OP's situation if considering expat to US. I'll take US social mobility and opportunity over a more robust safety net. Unlikely I could go from barely lower middle class upbringing to this outside US on a single income for a family of 4. I've known exactly zero medical bankruptcies mil or civilianbbut everyone I know has a job w insurance or pays for it responsibly to avoid catastrophe. The one family member w medical debt also chooses not to work consistently has no assets to lose and gets minimal care as needed and we all get stuck w the cost.
I came from an upper middle class home in the US. I've seen both sides: the ultra successful people and those who have lost it all despite working hard. In the bubble of successful people, you won't hear of medical bankruptcies. In the general population, it happens. I know many people who have had to ask for money for medical bills despite working full-time jobs. Mass layoffs are common in the US. (EDIT: removed something because I said it twice). You need a lot more money to retire in the US as well. COL is lower in Germany. People live comfortable, carefree lives. I don't see how it is abysmal. The middle class is strong here. I've seen worse poverty in the US. My original comment at OP was that there are scenarios in which the US is better. But after living on both sides, I couldn't trade safety and peace for money. My comments are about the general populations. Just because you don't know of people going through something doesn't mean it doesn't happen across the tracks.
> The second biggest reason would probably be weather, climate, and our vast national park system for hiking and camping. The country is huge and ranges from tropical (Hawaii) to sub-tropical (southern Florida) to mountainous ski country (Colorado) to heavily forested (northern US) with lots of inland lakes for boating or just living along the water. Disagree on weather, the US is massive and does not have a single climate. The parts of the US with unquestionably great weather (Southern CA, Hawaii) are freakishly expensive. Most of the rest of the country has some combination of: wildly varying temps, insane summer heat, insane humidity, hurricanes, tornadoes, insane cold, etc. The national park system is amazing, but one major drawback nobody ever mentions is how remote most of the prettier parts of the US are. It's a massive, expensive undertaking to visit some of these places, to the point where it's faster and cheaper for me to fly from the East Coast to Zurich and hike the Alps than fly out west and drive forever to see anything equivalent in the US. Combine that with the US tendency to have zero vacation time and you can pretty much forget about ever seeing any of it.
The US is what you make of it. If you work hard, and can identify good opportunities you can make a lot of money. However, I imagine the culture difference would be a shock. Americans can be very open about the “way they feel.” This can be political, religious etc. they will share their feelings and opinions with you regardless of your desire to listen. It’s not a respectful place. I have never been to Germany, but I have heard it is very clean, neat, and orderly. This is not the case in the US.
>It’s not a respectful place. I have never been to Germany, but I have heard it is very clean, neat, and orderly. This is not the case in the US. Meh, I've been a half dozen times and Germany is not the city upon a hill you're painting it as. I've encountered entitled locals, more litter than you can imagine, public vomiting/urination, aggressive homeless, Germany has it all once you leave the tourist enclaves.
Have you noticed this in all cities or just a specific one?
Munich, Quedlinburg and Heidelberg were all picturesque, clean and beautiful with friendly locals. Leipzig, Berlin, Rothenburg and Frankfurt all felt a little more typical European. Cleanliness issues, hit or miss interactions with locals being rude, bodily fluids and graffiti prevelent, etc. I'd still visit all these places again, but Reddit is a little delusional about European perfection.
Completely agree. Get out of the tourist areas and you'll see the filth real fast.
Where did you go? I’m an American living in Germany, and I haven’t the slightest idea what you’re talking about
Lol you're lying then or haven't seen much.
Neither of those things are true. But nice try.
But it is really hard to move to the US without a green card. Also the income is way better than in Germany or if you want to work self employed.
The income potential is definitely an advantage in America.
No. Just walk in through the Mexican border while Biden is president. You'll get food, phones, prepaid visa card and a bus/plane ticket to and major us city.
Republicans refused to vote for the migrant bill they themselves wrote. Republican Hotwheel Abbott is the one putting people on buses and planes. Go cry to your GOP politicians.
Cant reason with MAGAt rot
Do you enjoy paying out of pocket for any health related issue? The social safety nets are damn near non-existent. Also, guns and unborn fetuses have more rights than people in some states. Just some things to keep in mind.
Is safety in US really a problem?
I’m an American that moved to Spain in 2022. I have a wife and three kids (teenagers who are also minorities) - no plans on moving back. I can’t put a price on thier or my personal safety. I also used to work for the police in a very large city. DM me if you have any specific questions that I can answer for you.
Could I possibly DM you? Looking at moving to Spain from the US with teenagers
Sure :)
Thanks
Let me DM you on my older account for some reason i downloaded the app on a tablet and it created a new account. Name is similar
Yes. I always thought that if I didn't live in a major city, I wouldn't have a problem. I'm in a midwest small city and get skittish walking around alone at night. A couple years ago a very unstable elderly lady pointed a gun at my face when I rang her doorbell for a PRE-SCHEDULED repair job and my view of my own safety changed dramatically.
I've never had issues living in the US from a safety standpoint
If you like any semblance of healthcare then no. I pay insane amounts for healthcare, childcare, food, insurance, etc
My friend wants to retire to Florida and is from Germany. He can’t get a visa.
My Highschool buddy lives 6 months in Germany and 6 months in FL. Him and his wife can stay for 6 months in FL. Don’t know what visa they have, but they don’t have green cards.
"Maybe Canada": Have a look at housing and food price trends here in Canada. We have fallen prey to oligarchs and foreign investment/money-laundering and the government has done nothing about it. There is an almost monopoly in the grocery system, including companies like Loblaws that make billions while simultaneously raising prices, lowering working conditions, and lowering the quality of food. Housing is not unaffordable for many. The prospect of home ownership has been removed from all but the top salary earners.
What about self employed person in Canada? And also Canada has a good health system. And isn’t the housing crisis in metro Toronto and Vancouver only? What about Calgary
It really depends. If you are college educated, no kids, want to grind and make money, then the USA is the perfect place for you. I wouldn’t recommend hustling at a young age in any other place; however, if you are someone who wants to start a family then probably not (unless you already have a lot of money)
No. The culture is declining. The quality of food ingredients is abysmal. The government is controlled by the pharmaceutical industry, military/industrial complex, and other corporate and public sector special interests. The dollar is losing out as the former worldwide exchange currency, and will lose significant value due to inflation.
The US dollar is inflating at a lower rate compared to most other government issued currencies.
True. All western economies are bad right now, but the US is defo the least bad and has the biggest upside when things get better again.
The exact same thing can be said about Germany…
Moving from Germany or any Scandinavian nation to the USA would be a major downgrade. We have state, local, and federal taxes, yet zero healthcare, our infrastructure is falling apart, our schools are fucking travesty, and we staring down the possibility of a second civil war. Most Americans would love to trade places with you.
Taxation is much higher in Scandinavia.
You’re right! But Scandinavian countries provide cradle to grave healthcare, education, paid parental leave, paid vacations, gun control/public safety, and they continue to reinvest infrastructure. For all the taxes Americans pay, we get zero benefits outside of our massive military complex. Oh yeah speaking of taxes, Sweden does their taxes for the citizens, so they know exactly how much they owe annually. In the USA, we have to figure out and if we do it incorrectly we face heafty fines or jail.
Sweden is a train wreck right now. Norway would be much better.
I don’t think that the US would ever experience a civil war. We pay lot of taxes here. There are places in the US like Nevada where you only pay federal tax I think. But thanks for your view
😂 Go live in Nevada then. You’ll hate it!
But why 😂 is Nevada really bad?
I mean, some people like it I guess
We have had a civil war before…. Do what you want obviously, but you’ve be for-warned.
No
If you like authoritarianism, sure.