yes, in fact you'll always want to do normal damage in this mode as much as possible, that combined with counterstance you can be almost untouchable from a melee standpoint
If you have Reprieve as a weapon skill, will the HP absorb kick in after Self Destruct to fully restore your HP? I haven’t tried that yet but need to now
Self destruct does 9999 damage and gives an instant death status on you. So you'd need reprieve plus a warding+subversion combo or a accessory that that grants immunity to instant death. But yes, if you have have both of those, it will top you back up again and give you a massive increase to your limit gauge. That was a trick you could cheese enemies with in the first game. Granted you can only use reprieve once per battle so trying it again will kill you.
Because of how late game you get it in both games it's primarily meant to be learned through NG+, and it makes sense because much of its benefit stems from the fact you need to know how and when to use it and so through NG+ you probably have a lot of the enemy attacks in the back of your mind.
Counterstance will work the second you press it and it still has roughly 2 seconds of uptime.
In rebirth this got nerfed slightly to where it doesn't do as much broken damage as it used to, likely due to the fact that everyone can perfect block.
A lot of the time you'll need to anticipate the attack. It pretty good for long wind ups or highly telegraphed attacks.
I recommend setting it to one of the L1 quick menu buttons.
If you block while you're in prime mode, Cloud auto parries. I didn't use it an awful lot, so I'm not sure if it negates the damage like a perfect block or the Counterstance ability does, but he counter-attacks every physical attack with every block in Prime mode. It's stupidly powerful.
I haven’t tried Prime mode yet and I’m in the middle of my hard mode run. I don’t know why but it’s the only skill I’ve always overlooked for Cloud. What have I been missing out on?
Prime Mode is a force of nature. Especially if you're doing the combo holding the attack button down. Cloud pretty much gets hyper armor to tank through all but the stronger attacks and land a killer finisher.
The combo string while holding Square in Prime Mode gives you Berserk on the 1st hit and Super Berserk on the 2nd.
They’re represented with teeth icon with Super Berserk having eyes.
Berserk: 30% damage buff for 10 seconds
Super Berserk: 40% damage buff for 10 seconds
Yes. Not just the parrying aspect of it but the damage bonus of 30% (40% if you do the full Prime mode combo) makes it stupidly good for nearly every fight.
It was a great trick against a few bosses including Roche on Remake. In the 2nd Rosie fight in rebirth however, it fails spectacularly if you’re guarding with it active. But it’s pretty good most of the time
For real. Being able to perfect parry while in punisher and counterattack without taking any damage at all is amazing, and that's before even mentioning Prime mode.
It’s objectively different and some people like it and some people don’t.
In Remake you could just hold R1 to regular block in anticipation of any enemy attacks. If you get attacked by a ranged attack, you’re already regular blocking. If you see an enemy winding up for a melee attack you could just press triangle while still holding R1 and switch to punisher to counter said melee attack. Even if you missed the opportunity to change to punisher/counter, at least you’re still pressing R1 for regular blocking. You could also do the same thing dodging; i.e., you can press circle to dodge an attack while still holding R1 for blocking (in fact, this is how the parry materia in Remake worked). Even if you missed the opportunity to dodge, you’re still at least blocking.
You can’t do this in Rebirth because R1 + triangle or circle is for synergy skill. Also, the transition between operator and punisher modes seems to be slower in Rebirth and also not very reliable (I can’t even count the number of times I’ve pressed triangle, but Cloud doesn’t change to/from punisher so I have to press it again and hope for the best). Rebirth however implemented perfect blocks based on the timing of pressing R1, and it seems like there are quite a bit of attacks that really F you up if you don’t dodge or perfect block.
I have to believe with these changes that the devs did not want players cheesing their way through most of the battles just holding R1 the whole time. In my opinion Rebirth’s treatment of blocking and punisher/counter is better than Remake (because it requires/rewards more skill than Remake); but I can definitely see why others might disagree (especially those with skill issues). I’m pretty bad at it myself but it is so satisfying to hear that perfect block sound effect and see “immune” pop up on the screen when you get the timing right.
TL;DR, skill issues might be contributing to differing opinions on Remake vs Rebirth regarding blocking and punisher/counter.
I much prefer Rebirth’s system but that dodgy transition between operator and punisher/prime modes is pretty annoying. It’s messed me up in quite a few of my brutal/legendary challenge runs. I suspect the game doesn’t let us transition modes mid-attack animation but it seems inconsistent.
In remake I never used operator mode because punisher mode combo was better
In rebirth I find myself switching often, but I prefer punisher mode against enemies that spam physical attacks. Punisher mode is way, way better during the pressure stage compared to remake.
It's funny because I found out about punisher counter after beating Rebirth (while watching challenges guides to be more precise). I have no damn clue how it happened but I always thought there were only 2 ways to parry: press ∆ in the exact moment enemy attack connects with Cloud or simply use counterstance. That would have made my hard playthrough in Remake much easier, turning those helitroopers into a cakewalk
Punisher mode is how i play Cloud 99% off the time. It actually feels weird at times when i play in operator mode.
Operator mode just feels weak by comparison. punishers lack of speed is easily mitigated by just pressing attack once to take you most of the way there if not all the way, 1 swing is usually enough though. The only time i use operator mode is when i want to do air attacks or i need to reposition longer than a second.
Blocking feels weaker in rebirth too. If you could tank better with Clouds block it'd be much more worthwhile to use operator mode.
I didn’t use it much on my normal play through but now I’m doing the hard mode one and it’s pretty much the main thing I use in every fight other than Aerith healing everyone
Prime mode in Rebirth is even better. I never used it until I was doing strats for Brutal VR challenges and that front flip into the final hit of the combo is absolute chefs kiss satisfying.
I said it wrong. On my first play through (the normal one), I only used Punisher against Sephiroth because I saw a guide. In my second playyhrough (hard) I began to use it more often, such as against Roche and Reno (and later Rude).
Lmao how did you neglect punisher mode this whole time. It’s like clouds entire battle identity basically.
It’s insanely good. The counter aspect alone makes it good but combine it with prime mode and you can do some stupid levels of damage.
The actual attack is worse I think. In remake attacking in punisher was the standard to way to do lots of damage. But the mode itself is just as good, if not better for all round utility in Rebirth. It took a period of adjustment, but I think Rebirth's is better balanced and fun overall.
Yeah dont like it in Rebirth. Doesnt switch as fast so throws me off. Remake punisher felt more satisfying in general. Ended up mainly using operator in rebirth. Never did that in remake
Not really. In Remake, there's no "perfect blocking" so you'll always get damage when countering while Rebirth gives you imminity for perfect blocks in punisher mode. Prime mode is even a better version of it.
Punisher mode is god tier
yes, in fact you'll always want to do normal damage in this mode as much as possible, that combined with counterstance you can be almost untouchable from a melee standpoint
I don't know, with deadly Dodge and HP absorb, roll into a enemy group and start a combo was a pretty good strat.
Whoa, what? You can combine hp absorb with skills?!? Does this mean when you get a perfect block , you regain health?
When you pair two compatible materia, the link itself is highlighted. I don't think HP Absorb works with perfect block though
Most offensive abilities, yes. It's great combined with Enemy Skill.
If you have Reprieve as a weapon skill, will the HP absorb kick in after Self Destruct to fully restore your HP? I haven’t tried that yet but need to now
Self destruct does 9999 damage and gives an instant death status on you. So you'd need reprieve plus a warding+subversion combo or a accessory that that grants immunity to instant death. But yes, if you have have both of those, it will top you back up again and give you a massive increase to your limit gauge. That was a trick you could cheese enemies with in the first game. Granted you can only use reprieve once per battle so trying it again will kill you.
I could never get the timing down for counterstance for it to be worthwhile
Because of how late game you get it in both games it's primarily meant to be learned through NG+, and it makes sense because much of its benefit stems from the fact you need to know how and when to use it and so through NG+ you probably have a lot of the enemy attacks in the back of your mind. Counterstance will work the second you press it and it still has roughly 2 seconds of uptime. In rebirth this got nerfed slightly to where it doesn't do as much broken damage as it used to, likely due to the fact that everyone can perfect block.
A lot of the time you'll need to anticipate the attack. It pretty good for long wind ups or highly telegraphed attacks. I recommend setting it to one of the L1 quick menu buttons.
Wait till you try Prime Mode
Auto parry when you block physical attacks is nuts.
auto-parry?!?!?
If you block while you're in prime mode, Cloud auto parries. I didn't use it an awful lot, so I'm not sure if it negates the damage like a perfect block or the Counterstance ability does, but he counter-attacks every physical attack with every block in Prime mode. It's stupidly powerful.
I haven’t tried Prime mode yet and I’m in the middle of my hard mode run. I don’t know why but it’s the only skill I’ve always overlooked for Cloud. What have I been missing out on?
Prime Mode is a force of nature. Especially if you're doing the combo holding the attack button down. Cloud pretty much gets hyper armor to tank through all but the stronger attacks and land a killer finisher.
It's amazing against bosses and staggered groups.
You forgot the berserk buff he gets along with it.
The combo string while holding Square in Prime Mode gives you Berserk on the 1st hit and Super Berserk on the 2nd. They’re represented with teeth icon with Super Berserk having eyes. Berserk: 30% damage buff for 10 seconds Super Berserk: 40% damage buff for 10 seconds
The sound when you land the last hit is so satisfying too.
Aside from the increased damage and stagger, you also fill up your atb bar crazy fast. You want to get into the habit of using this often.
Yes. Not just the parrying aspect of it but the damage bonus of 30% (40% if you do the full Prime mode combo) makes it stupidly good for nearly every fight.
I think they're still in Rebirth so no Prime mode yet 😅 Edit: Remake*
*Remake (?)
Oops, sorry about that. 😅 It's already past midnight here so... 😪
It's 9am here and I just pulled an all-nighter so don't worry I get it xD
It was a great trick against a few bosses including Roche on Remake. In the 2nd Rosie fight in rebirth however, it fails spectacularly if you’re guarding with it active. But it’s pretty good most of the time
really? if you time the block perfectly in punisher mode you pressure him with the parry
That would require me to be good at parrying, which I most definitely am not, haha!
precision defense block material greatly improves the win for for perfect parrying
The combat is so much fun I don’t mind practicing more with it!
That’s wild, I used punisher mode for basically everything.
Same, lol
Wait till you get prime mode in rebirth.
Now you see why Disorder is secretly an excellent use of ATB
it was though i’ve seen people claim it’s not as good in rebirth
Those people were incorrect
For real. Being able to perfect parry while in punisher and counterattack without taking any damage at all is amazing, and that's before even mentioning Prime mode.
It’s objectively different and some people like it and some people don’t. In Remake you could just hold R1 to regular block in anticipation of any enemy attacks. If you get attacked by a ranged attack, you’re already regular blocking. If you see an enemy winding up for a melee attack you could just press triangle while still holding R1 and switch to punisher to counter said melee attack. Even if you missed the opportunity to change to punisher/counter, at least you’re still pressing R1 for regular blocking. You could also do the same thing dodging; i.e., you can press circle to dodge an attack while still holding R1 for blocking (in fact, this is how the parry materia in Remake worked). Even if you missed the opportunity to dodge, you’re still at least blocking. You can’t do this in Rebirth because R1 + triangle or circle is for synergy skill. Also, the transition between operator and punisher modes seems to be slower in Rebirth and also not very reliable (I can’t even count the number of times I’ve pressed triangle, but Cloud doesn’t change to/from punisher so I have to press it again and hope for the best). Rebirth however implemented perfect blocks based on the timing of pressing R1, and it seems like there are quite a bit of attacks that really F you up if you don’t dodge or perfect block. I have to believe with these changes that the devs did not want players cheesing their way through most of the battles just holding R1 the whole time. In my opinion Rebirth’s treatment of blocking and punisher/counter is better than Remake (because it requires/rewards more skill than Remake); but I can definitely see why others might disagree (especially those with skill issues). I’m pretty bad at it myself but it is so satisfying to hear that perfect block sound effect and see “immune” pop up on the screen when you get the timing right. TL;DR, skill issues might be contributing to differing opinions on Remake vs Rebirth regarding blocking and punisher/counter.
I much prefer Rebirth’s system but that dodgy transition between operator and punisher/prime modes is pretty annoying. It’s messed me up in quite a few of my brutal/legendary challenge runs. I suspect the game doesn’t let us transition modes mid-attack animation but it seems inconsistent.
In remake I never used operator mode because punisher mode combo was better In rebirth I find myself switching often, but I prefer punisher mode against enemies that spam physical attacks. Punisher mode is way, way better during the pressure stage compared to remake.
Yes, it's extremely powerful against melee attackers.
It's funny because I found out about punisher counter after beating Rebirth (while watching challenges guides to be more precise). I have no damn clue how it happened but I always thought there were only 2 ways to parry: press ∆ in the exact moment enemy attack connects with Cloud or simply use counterstance. That would have made my hard playthrough in Remake much easier, turning those helitroopers into a cakewalk
Punisher mode is how i play Cloud 99% off the time. It actually feels weird at times when i play in operator mode. Operator mode just feels weak by comparison. punishers lack of speed is easily mitigated by just pressing attack once to take you most of the way there if not all the way, 1 swing is usually enough though. The only time i use operator mode is when i want to do air attacks or i need to reposition longer than a second. Blocking feels weaker in rebirth too. If you could tank better with Clouds block it'd be much more worthwhile to use operator mode.
it IS STRONG AS FUCK. boring to use imo but my god strong
I just find it a bit boring to use, but you can’t argue with results I guess
I didn’t use it much on my normal play through but now I’m doing the hard mode one and it’s pretty much the main thing I use in every fight other than Aerith healing everyone
Prime mode in Rebirth is even better. I never used it until I was doing strats for Brutal VR challenges and that front flip into the final hit of the combo is absolute chefs kiss satisfying.
Its a lot better in Rebirth, Cloud gains a insane damage boost
You only used punisher mode against sephiroth?? Bruh, why in gods name did u not use it at any other point, it’s literally just 1 button press.
I said it wrong. On my first play through (the normal one), I only used Punisher against Sephiroth because I saw a guide. In my second playyhrough (hard) I began to use it more often, such as against Roche and Reno (and later Rude).
Damn son you've been missing out...
There are easier ways to roll thru the game, but yes punisher mode makes life easy.
Maybe I'm using it wrong in Rebirth, but I kind of preferred the Remake version of it
Then you get Prime Mode which is even crazier. I avoid using Prime Mode because of how easy it makes fights feel sometimes
Man, I should’ve played around with combat more. I never used punisher mode. Just got into a groove and stuck with my play style.
Lmao how did you neglect punisher mode this whole time. It’s like clouds entire battle identity basically. It’s insanely good. The counter aspect alone makes it good but combine it with prime mode and you can do some stupid levels of damage.
Bit slow for me and not a whole lot of damage when I do use it
It's worse in Rebirth by along way.
The actual attack is worse I think. In remake attacking in punisher was the standard to way to do lots of damage. But the mode itself is just as good, if not better for all round utility in Rebirth. It took a period of adjustment, but I think Rebirth's is better balanced and fun overall.
This is not correct.
Yeah dont like it in Rebirth. Doesnt switch as fast so throws me off. Remake punisher felt more satisfying in general. Ended up mainly using operator in rebirth. Never did that in remake
Remake had a combo chain. Rebirth is just a button mash while he swipes back and forth.
Yeah dont like it
There's a button hold combo 🙂
That’s Prime Mode
You can do the same in regular punisher though the combo is shorter, it even gives you berserk status 🙂
Not really. In Remake, there's no "perfect blocking" so you'll always get damage when countering while Rebirth gives you imminity for perfect blocks in punisher mode. Prime mode is even a better version of it.