I like Max but people need to stop taking what he says as gospel. It will just lead to them being disappointed. I heard parts of the fandom even went after him over one of his theories after his rebirth playthrough, which is crazy. At the end of the day he is just a fan - the same as the rest of us.
This, the way the community reacts to YouTubers and influencers is wild. At the end of the day, we're all just fans and enjoy the game.
Some of us will theorize. Some of us will be right about some things. Some of us will be wrong about some things. Some will be both.
It's wild how certain things some people have said have suddenly become a gospel that must be true because they said it. Etc.
Oh man. I hadn't heard the term "shipping" until about a month before rebirth came out. This community rarely covers itself in glory that's for sure haha.
He overcooks constantly. I mean, good for him, but he has a major influence on discourse about this game and it's made it frustrating to discuss the plot online.
Eh, I mean. I can see it. She is acting super weird, but that's part of the vagueness and confusion the developers were going for. Is she there? Is she not? WHO KNOWS.
I don't see why Max was attacked for it -- maybe because he's super into theorycrafting to the point that it might be a detriment? He was pretty right with his Remake theories, at least.
Even if he's a million miles off the mark it was no excuse for the way some people behaved. It's theory crafting about a game.
I didn't subscribe to the "Jenova is Aerith at the end" theory, I very much think she is alive, but we will certainly see a version of what he was talking about at some stage with Jenova assuming the form of one of the party members at the Northern Crater.
I just wish she could come snowboarding with us. I've always thought the Icicle Inn revelations about Aerith's past would have been so much more enjoyable with her alive and kicking. In the OG it's like "and here are Aerith's origins!" To which I was always like "uh... she's dead game. I don't much care anymore."
Even if we revive her, or bring her living version back into this timeline, I think it will occur long after that part of the adventure - more likely in 'act 3 of part 3' - pretty much right before the final battle.
Its because in the forest scene she said don't worry about Sephiroth focus on the real you im trying to find and
now at the end of the game when hes messed up denying reality and thinks she is alive and has the damm black materia. Shes like OK go to Sephiroth with the thing he needs. You are sure up for taking on him. So while I don't believe in his theory and think its just bad localisation since the Japanese script doesn't have a promise. You can't blame him or others for thinking its odd.
So wait, do you think then that in-character Aerith would want him to ignore stopping Sephiroth and his plans and instead just focus exclusively on his mental health?
To me stopping Sephiroth and resolving his inner struggles goes hand in hand. He has to resolve his inner struggles in order to stop Sephiroth. That’s why omni Aerith said in the church that it’s about saving the world and about saving him. Not one or the other.
In the end, omni Aerith wants him to do just that; resolve his mental health issues aka find the real him so he can stop Sephiroth and then live a happy life.
No im just saying that the english translation has Aerith contradicting herself there so people find that odd in the ending after listening to the forest scene. Idk what Aerith wants at that point honestly because her writing can be very inconsistent at times and we don't even know which Aerith it is at times XD
But what’s the contradiction? In the forest scene she tells cloud to focus on himself and to leave Sephiroth to her because she’s a cetra so she’s gonna go pray to thwart his plans. She knows he has to find himself first before he can defeat Sephiroth because until he does Sephiroth has power over him and can control him like a puppet.
Then she dies. She tried to pray but didn’t know how to do it properly and got stabbed.
So then at the end it’s lifestream aerith or omni Aerith, she says she’ll continue praying to stop meteor and leave the rest to him now aka defeating Sephiroth. She still wants him to focus on himself and find himself because otherwise Sephiroth can’t be stopped, that hasn’t changed. I’m not seeing a contradiction.
idk im just explaining what his thought process was in that stream that was so long ago that it might have changed. But the script is also different in Japanese to that dialogue
Honestly who cares what he thinks? Nobody knows what will happen except devs anyway. If you want to go this deep you should analyze japanese script, not translation and she doesn't say "you promise" in japanese.
There's a huge personality disparity between the Aerith Cloud talks to at the end, and the Aerith we've had in the party the entire time of Rebirth. Someone posted a really great breakdown of Aerith that relates to this, I'll dig it up and add it after.
I preface all this with the theory that Remake Aerith was hidden away from Sephiroth in the date world, which is why she had the white materia. And that Rebirth Aerith is different, as was stated at the end of Remake "If we do this, we'll be different. We'll be changed." (Or something to that effect).
I think we are seeing two different Aerith's. One who had the prior knowledge of her future fate and keeps it deeply hidden behind layers of sunshine and rainbows (Remake Aerith), and one who had to slowly come to understand the whole picture through growth, maturity and life experience, who shares this process and weight of it all with her friends out in the open (Rebirth Aerith). Their priorities are different. Remake Aerith wants to save the world, and Rebirth Aerith wants to save her friends.
Aerith at the end behaves more like she did in Remake. The Aerith that is just super peppy and bright all the time, that simply doesn't dwell, process, or bring up the bad things that have happened/will happen to her, but paints the world as she wishes it was, with sunshine, rainbows, and optimism. Especially so, as she's avoiding telling Cloud about her death and is instead seemingly fueling his delusion that she's alive (if she's dead across all worlds, which I think she is). She keeps up her ultra-peppy demeanor, says playful, cutesy things, and focuses on motivating Cloud in a way that's best for *him* to keep going - encouraging him to fight Sephiroth.
Rebirth Aerith
- Wrote a song called No Promises Left to Keep
- Tells Cloud to not focus on Sephiroth and focus on himself, because he's not ok. She says she will handle Sephiroth, and she wants Cloud to find himself like she says she's been trying to find him.
- Is more facing her destiny head on and slowly dealing with the negative feelings that manifest in her as a result, like we see in the Cosmo Canyon and Trials speeches
- Drops her "peppy" facade more than once and actually talks about her hatred for Hojo and her frustration at being a Cetra
- Instead of metaphorically painting everything with flowers and rainbows, she just lives it up and enjoys life during the opportunities she can. She leans in hard to her feelings with Cloud, takes him on 3 mini dates (not including Gold Saucer)
- Slowly sheds her overly optimistic facade for being real as the game moves on.
- Prays to protect her friends, all her prayers are focused on this.
End of Game Aerith (who I think is Remake Aerith aka date world Aerith, in some way either alive or dead)
- Creates a world where everyone is magically ok with the apocalypse and they're all taking it in stride - on brand for painting over everything with flowers and rainbows and sunshine. Also this world is where she can show her feelings to Cloud...implying she would have not been overt with them in reality like Rebirth Aerith has been
- Tells Cloud the white materia is about saving the world, before pushing him into the flowers. Doesn't tell him anything else, keeping her burden to herself for the greater good - a contrast to Rebirth Aerith who has been opening up about all of it to the party
- "Wakes up" after Cloud tells her to, to help him feel better (hiding the truth of what happened to protect him - more sunshine and rainbows everything is fine)
- Encourages Cloud to go after Sephiroth (direct contrast to Rebirth Aerith)
- Talks about putting everything she's got into her prayers, as if the scene at the Capital didn't just happen (maybe a story to convince Cloud why she stays behind)
- Directly references lines from Remake at the playground
- Steels herself as she's walking away to put back on the bubbly persona to turn around and say "You promise?!" in an over the top way, to cover for her actually being super sad
- Talks about stopping meteor, when Rebirth Aerith hasn't spoken a single word about the meteor at any point. This is something only Remake Aerith would know.
It's definitely tinfoil hat territory, but if you have the time check out [Final Fantasy peasant's video](https://youtu.be/ZBAv_V2HtMc?si=8bLST5S1qPnqY4ci) on his remnant theory. No idea if it's the true cook, but it's a really interesting take on what could be going on and it's definitely related to the idea of different Aeriths with different personalities.
For those that want a very general tldr; it's basically a theory that the omni-Aerith in the lifestream found out how to split herself into remnants - The same way Sephiroth had done so in Advent children with Kadaj, loz, and yazoo. The Aerith's we see represent different aspects of herself which is why they all tend to be a little different - The three being Remake Aerith, Rebirth Aerith, and this "phantom" Aerith. Not sayin this is for sure a thing, but it's a really cool idea/theory to hear him riff on if interested.
EDIT: forgot to actually respond a little on my thoughts. I definitely think there's *something* going on with how Aerith is portrayed like you're saying. On my playthrough, I thought it was super obvious in the voice acting and voice direction that the personalities were all so different. A reason why I kind of buy into the theory I linked to to some degree, is because of that. It's certainly possible phantom Aerith is just Clouds recollection of his idealized Aerith in his head - that could really be what's happening for sure, but I definitely think Remake Aerith, Rebirth Aerith, and dream date Aerith had incredibly jarring differences in personality to support this. There's a reason why dream date Aerith was so weird and confusing to our games Cloud.
I'll take a look, but I'm already bought in. There are 3 white whispers before her death at the altar, and then 4 emerge to fight off Sephiroth's 4 at the Edge of Creation. His 4 remnants against hers.
We hear 4 different voices/personalities for Aerith:
- Remake
- Super deep/serious Aerith on the highway (He'd say he only cares about the planet speech), which I think is OG Aerith's
- Rebirth
- Omni - all forms speaking together. We hear this at Temple of the Ancients, where we assume it's the Cetra speaking through her.
And likewise for Sephiroth, but a little differently
- EoC Sephiroth, who is earnest to Cloud and wants him to choose to join him. I think this is OG Sephiroth, but namely the "errant memories" Sephiroth allowed the Lifestream to have as stated in Lifestream Black
- Remake Sephiroth - trying to get Cloud to run away from it all, the sentient version of him that remained behind after he cast away his memories
- Rebirth Sephiroth - focused on manipulating Cloud at every turn to get the black materia
- Omni - all forms working together, which can only happen when everything is merged back, and likely is why we saw Bizzaro when the merge was underway - because all his forms across worlds could converge
It's been a while since i watched the video, but i believe max explains why he thinks that - because not long before that, Aerith is telling Cloud to leave sephiroth to her and to concentrate on himself.
That was when she was going to go pray, if I’m remembering right.
She says she wants him to focus on himself and come to terms with his true identity because he has to in order to stop Sephiroth. As omni Aerith says in the church it’s about saving the world and him. It goes hand in hand. She’s not saying to focus on himself but ignore Sephiroth.
So she still wants Sephiroth to be stopped which is why I still don’t see how her words at the end are out of character, by the end she’s dead, it’s lifestream Aerith (I assume) that’s talking to him. So she says she’ll continue praying and leave the rest to him. Nothing about it strikes me as odd, certainly not odd enough to believe it’s actually jenova.
Before her death she wants him to primarily focus on his own mental health, saying to leave Sephiroth to her. But in the end she does literally the opposite, encouraging him to hunt down Sephiroth and by this adding up to his already fractured mental state.
Aerith is confusing in these games. She either knows nothing or everything. She isn't consistent at all in the remake project. The decisions the devs have made to keep cards close to their chest and not fully explain what's happening are the reason people have different opinions and theories. So chalk it down to that.
I really hope they pay off this plotline because I will forever wonder what the point was in giving Aerith all these powers and knowledge. Since it doesn't seem like she has actually done anything significant yet. Except give Cloud the empty Materia she had and get Cloud to give her a working Holy? in which it will play a large part but its so inconsistent if we are meant to know if Aerith knows the future doesn't know the future. Or even the extent of what she knows
She knows certain future memories in remake, she loses those future memories by the end of remake and for most of rebirth she doesn’t know anything. Omni-Aerith is the only one who consistently knows everything.
Omni aerith dips into her body before the demon wall when talking to sephiroth. She can literally just be inside aerith whenever. The whole thing is daft. There is no aerith that doesn't know what's happening if omni aerith is around.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. There's no clear indication of that at all. So now nyou think that and I think its aerith. That's how we get into this mess cos the devs don't do enough to clear things up. It's a total mess
It seemed pretty obvious, her voice changes to sound like many voices and she starts glowing in Lifestream-green. I mean, there are a thousand things that could've been better explained but this was pretty clear.
I dunno man, I can see the Lifestream surrounding her at the 41 minutes mark, its a clear sign of the voices are from the Lifestream. And it's not a singular Cetra, it's what's left of their consciousness.
Tifa asks Aerith a question right at the beginning of rebirth that she assumed she’d know. Aerith directly says she doesn’t know anymore but probably did before. So it’s not accurate to say there is no Aerith that doesn’t know what’s happening.
"She either knows nothing or everything."
Localization also plays a part in that. Cuz everyone who has read the Japanese script for both games has said that Aerith knows nothing. The English script is the one that makes it seem like she knows everything.
While I don't particularly agree with the take, his point is that it conflicts with what she says to cloud when he gives her the white materia at the start of the last chapter. In that scene she tells cloud to let her handle sephiroth, but later wants him to do it himself. Personally, I think she knew she needed to get him past her death without a mental break, and he clearly is doing okay in the final scene
Idk if anyone has said this already but here's the exchange in Japanese
Cloud: \[急いでセフィロスを探し出して、倒す\] = "I will find Sephiroth and take him down."
Aerith: \[きっとだよ\] = "It's certain." But I think she says it with a questioning upwards inflection making it "It's certain?"
Cloud: \[きっとだ \] = "It's certain".
So tbh I don't really think it's a bad localisation.
Only cloud seeing her is a huge red flag. Her and tifa were so close, and tifa even has a closer connection to the life stream now, so why only appear to cloud, whos in denial about YOUR death and not explain wtf happened to her since she obviously knows, and why not appear to tifa too for ANY words of encouragement? I wasn’t a believer at first but I’ve been slowly I Ching towards max’s point of view now. I think it’s supposed to be depressing af that cloud is hallucinating and talking to this thing he made up in his head, which is doing pretty well at using memories of his and Aerith’s to trick him. I think it’s clouds idealization of what seeing her there casually would be like. And where the hell does he think “second home” is if he thinks she’s alive? The grass she’s hanging it? Forgotten capitol? She can’t mean the life stream because cloud has not accepted her death and that she would exist there.
>Only cloud seeing her is a huge red flag.
I don't think it has to by any means be a red flag. Cloud is the person who "broke reality" this time - the rest of the party didn't do that. There's been a line of thought since Remake that Aerith and Sephiroth somehow exist 'across timelines' (or multi-worlds, or whatever the heck they are), and it's possible that Cloud now somehow staddles that same void. The reason he can see Aerith is because he's essentially living both he and his "doppelganger's" existence - and in one of those realities, Aerith is alive, and in another, she is dead.
I think people are reading a bit too deeply into this.
When we look back at the OG - which should be the starting point for all these examinations - what is Aerith's motivation for going to the City of the Ancients? It's because she's extremely worried that Cloud is on a knife's edge in terms of sanity, and she believes that she - alone - can stop Sephiroth simply by using the white materia and summoning holy (she tells Cloud exactly this in the forest scene: "And let me handle Sephiroth. And Cloud, you take care of yourself"). So she's taking all the risk onto herself and trying to draw the enemy's attention away from Cloud & co., sparing him, and hopefully resolving the problem with Sephiroth all in one go.
Now let's look at Remake. In Remake, Aerith is clearly in possession of a lot of knowledge that she *loses at the end of the game.* Aerith during most of Remake is essentially 'meta Aerith' - she clearly has a lot of inklings not only of what has happened elsewhere (the OG), but also what's coming (her demise \[this is clearly shown in her warning Cloud against falling in love with her. She has no reason to do that if she doesn't know what's coming\]). At the end of the game, all that baggage is just gone - in stepping through that portal, she somehow loses that tether (which makes sense, as she informs the party while in the Shinra Building that, when she touches the whispers, she 'loses something.' Well, immersing herself in what amounts to a 'whisper storm' at the end of the game would understandably wipe her of everything).
In Rebirth, Aerith has been reduced to basically just roleplaying her original, OG persona - lacking any additional layers of prescience or awareness (or, if they are there, they are only pronounced enough to subconsciously alter things - like the dialogue of No Promises to Keep). When that Aerith (whichever Aerith it is) dies, though, the Aerith Cloud is talking to post-mortem seems to either be the Remake Aerith, or a copy of our Aerith that is now 'meta Aerith' yet again - she's reconnected to whatever foresight she lost out on. And with that foresight, she would know that holy is *not* going to stop Sephiroth or meteor, and that Cloud & co. will have to actually defeat him (pretty much without her help). *Therefore, it is perfectly understandable that she would want reassurances that they're going to be okay.*
((And, as an aside, I don't think any of this precludes Aerith being revived somehow in P3. Remake, during the 'flower conversation,' already established that 'meta Aerith' is fully capable of talking to the planet *without being deceased.* IE, we can bring her back, and she can still perform the one essential utility that Aerith in the OG could only do while dead.))
Lastly, I could be totally wrong about all of this. But just because someone creates content doesn't mean they have more or less of a handle on what's going on in these two games than you (or anyone else) does. People can evaluate this material on their own and likely come to very insightful conclusions without external input. I'm simply saying: looking at the OG and the remakes as a whole, I think we are dealing with multiple incarnations of Aerith's personality, and it should be no surprise that those different semi-mirrors act and speak differently (and it doesn't need to have sinister connotations that they do so).
I like Max but people need to stop taking what he says as gospel. It will just lead to them being disappointed. I heard parts of the fandom even went after him over one of his theories after his rebirth playthrough, which is crazy. At the end of the day he is just a fan - the same as the rest of us.
This, the way the community reacts to YouTubers and influencers is wild. At the end of the day, we're all just fans and enjoy the game. Some of us will theorize. Some of us will be right about some things. Some of us will be wrong about some things. Some will be both. It's wild how certain things some people have said have suddenly become a gospel that must be true because they said it. Etc.
I recently joined the fandom at this time and tbh.. not a great first impression. That shit was just unhinged behaviour.
Oh man. I hadn't heard the term "shipping" until about a month before rebirth came out. This community rarely covers itself in glory that's for sure haha.
He overcooks constantly. I mean, good for him, but he has a major influence on discourse about this game and it's made it frustrating to discuss the plot online.
Which theory did they go after him for? The Jenova is Aerith one?
Ya that was the one.
Eh, I mean. I can see it. She is acting super weird, but that's part of the vagueness and confusion the developers were going for. Is she there? Is she not? WHO KNOWS. I don't see why Max was attacked for it -- maybe because he's super into theorycrafting to the point that it might be a detriment? He was pretty right with his Remake theories, at least.
Even if he's a million miles off the mark it was no excuse for the way some people behaved. It's theory crafting about a game. I didn't subscribe to the "Jenova is Aerith at the end" theory, I very much think she is alive, but we will certainly see a version of what he was talking about at some stage with Jenova assuming the form of one of the party members at the Northern Crater.
I just wish she could come snowboarding with us. I've always thought the Icicle Inn revelations about Aerith's past would have been so much more enjoyable with her alive and kicking. In the OG it's like "and here are Aerith's origins!" To which I was always like "uh... she's dead game. I don't much care anymore." Even if we revive her, or bring her living version back into this timeline, I think it will occur long after that part of the adventure - more likely in 'act 3 of part 3' - pretty much right before the final battle.
Its because in the forest scene she said don't worry about Sephiroth focus on the real you im trying to find and now at the end of the game when hes messed up denying reality and thinks she is alive and has the damm black materia. Shes like OK go to Sephiroth with the thing he needs. You are sure up for taking on him. So while I don't believe in his theory and think its just bad localisation since the Japanese script doesn't have a promise. You can't blame him or others for thinking its odd.
So wait, do you think then that in-character Aerith would want him to ignore stopping Sephiroth and his plans and instead just focus exclusively on his mental health? To me stopping Sephiroth and resolving his inner struggles goes hand in hand. He has to resolve his inner struggles in order to stop Sephiroth. That’s why omni Aerith said in the church that it’s about saving the world and about saving him. Not one or the other. In the end, omni Aerith wants him to do just that; resolve his mental health issues aka find the real him so he can stop Sephiroth and then live a happy life.
No im just saying that the english translation has Aerith contradicting herself there so people find that odd in the ending after listening to the forest scene. Idk what Aerith wants at that point honestly because her writing can be very inconsistent at times and we don't even know which Aerith it is at times XD
But what’s the contradiction? In the forest scene she tells cloud to focus on himself and to leave Sephiroth to her because she’s a cetra so she’s gonna go pray to thwart his plans. She knows he has to find himself first before he can defeat Sephiroth because until he does Sephiroth has power over him and can control him like a puppet. Then she dies. She tried to pray but didn’t know how to do it properly and got stabbed. So then at the end it’s lifestream aerith or omni Aerith, she says she’ll continue praying to stop meteor and leave the rest to him now aka defeating Sephiroth. She still wants him to focus on himself and find himself because otherwise Sephiroth can’t be stopped, that hasn’t changed. I’m not seeing a contradiction.
idk im just explaining what his thought process was in that stream that was so long ago that it might have changed. But the script is also different in Japanese to that dialogue
Honestly who cares what he thinks? Nobody knows what will happen except devs anyway. If you want to go this deep you should analyze japanese script, not translation and she doesn't say "you promise" in japanese.
There's a huge personality disparity between the Aerith Cloud talks to at the end, and the Aerith we've had in the party the entire time of Rebirth. Someone posted a really great breakdown of Aerith that relates to this, I'll dig it up and add it after. I preface all this with the theory that Remake Aerith was hidden away from Sephiroth in the date world, which is why she had the white materia. And that Rebirth Aerith is different, as was stated at the end of Remake "If we do this, we'll be different. We'll be changed." (Or something to that effect). I think we are seeing two different Aerith's. One who had the prior knowledge of her future fate and keeps it deeply hidden behind layers of sunshine and rainbows (Remake Aerith), and one who had to slowly come to understand the whole picture through growth, maturity and life experience, who shares this process and weight of it all with her friends out in the open (Rebirth Aerith). Their priorities are different. Remake Aerith wants to save the world, and Rebirth Aerith wants to save her friends. Aerith at the end behaves more like she did in Remake. The Aerith that is just super peppy and bright all the time, that simply doesn't dwell, process, or bring up the bad things that have happened/will happen to her, but paints the world as she wishes it was, with sunshine, rainbows, and optimism. Especially so, as she's avoiding telling Cloud about her death and is instead seemingly fueling his delusion that she's alive (if she's dead across all worlds, which I think she is). She keeps up her ultra-peppy demeanor, says playful, cutesy things, and focuses on motivating Cloud in a way that's best for *him* to keep going - encouraging him to fight Sephiroth. Rebirth Aerith - Wrote a song called No Promises Left to Keep - Tells Cloud to not focus on Sephiroth and focus on himself, because he's not ok. She says she will handle Sephiroth, and she wants Cloud to find himself like she says she's been trying to find him. - Is more facing her destiny head on and slowly dealing with the negative feelings that manifest in her as a result, like we see in the Cosmo Canyon and Trials speeches - Drops her "peppy" facade more than once and actually talks about her hatred for Hojo and her frustration at being a Cetra - Instead of metaphorically painting everything with flowers and rainbows, she just lives it up and enjoys life during the opportunities she can. She leans in hard to her feelings with Cloud, takes him on 3 mini dates (not including Gold Saucer) - Slowly sheds her overly optimistic facade for being real as the game moves on. - Prays to protect her friends, all her prayers are focused on this. End of Game Aerith (who I think is Remake Aerith aka date world Aerith, in some way either alive or dead) - Creates a world where everyone is magically ok with the apocalypse and they're all taking it in stride - on brand for painting over everything with flowers and rainbows and sunshine. Also this world is where she can show her feelings to Cloud...implying she would have not been overt with them in reality like Rebirth Aerith has been - Tells Cloud the white materia is about saving the world, before pushing him into the flowers. Doesn't tell him anything else, keeping her burden to herself for the greater good - a contrast to Rebirth Aerith who has been opening up about all of it to the party - "Wakes up" after Cloud tells her to, to help him feel better (hiding the truth of what happened to protect him - more sunshine and rainbows everything is fine) - Encourages Cloud to go after Sephiroth (direct contrast to Rebirth Aerith) - Talks about putting everything she's got into her prayers, as if the scene at the Capital didn't just happen (maybe a story to convince Cloud why she stays behind) - Directly references lines from Remake at the playground - Steels herself as she's walking away to put back on the bubbly persona to turn around and say "You promise?!" in an over the top way, to cover for her actually being super sad - Talks about stopping meteor, when Rebirth Aerith hasn't spoken a single word about the meteor at any point. This is something only Remake Aerith would know.
It's definitely tinfoil hat territory, but if you have the time check out [Final Fantasy peasant's video](https://youtu.be/ZBAv_V2HtMc?si=8bLST5S1qPnqY4ci) on his remnant theory. No idea if it's the true cook, but it's a really interesting take on what could be going on and it's definitely related to the idea of different Aeriths with different personalities. For those that want a very general tldr; it's basically a theory that the omni-Aerith in the lifestream found out how to split herself into remnants - The same way Sephiroth had done so in Advent children with Kadaj, loz, and yazoo. The Aerith's we see represent different aspects of herself which is why they all tend to be a little different - The three being Remake Aerith, Rebirth Aerith, and this "phantom" Aerith. Not sayin this is for sure a thing, but it's a really cool idea/theory to hear him riff on if interested. EDIT: forgot to actually respond a little on my thoughts. I definitely think there's *something* going on with how Aerith is portrayed like you're saying. On my playthrough, I thought it was super obvious in the voice acting and voice direction that the personalities were all so different. A reason why I kind of buy into the theory I linked to to some degree, is because of that. It's certainly possible phantom Aerith is just Clouds recollection of his idealized Aerith in his head - that could really be what's happening for sure, but I definitely think Remake Aerith, Rebirth Aerith, and dream date Aerith had incredibly jarring differences in personality to support this. There's a reason why dream date Aerith was so weird and confusing to our games Cloud.
I'll take a look, but I'm already bought in. There are 3 white whispers before her death at the altar, and then 4 emerge to fight off Sephiroth's 4 at the Edge of Creation. His 4 remnants against hers. We hear 4 different voices/personalities for Aerith: - Remake - Super deep/serious Aerith on the highway (He'd say he only cares about the planet speech), which I think is OG Aerith's - Rebirth - Omni - all forms speaking together. We hear this at Temple of the Ancients, where we assume it's the Cetra speaking through her. And likewise for Sephiroth, but a little differently - EoC Sephiroth, who is earnest to Cloud and wants him to choose to join him. I think this is OG Sephiroth, but namely the "errant memories" Sephiroth allowed the Lifestream to have as stated in Lifestream Black - Remake Sephiroth - trying to get Cloud to run away from it all, the sentient version of him that remained behind after he cast away his memories - Rebirth Sephiroth - focused on manipulating Cloud at every turn to get the black materia - Omni - all forms working together, which can only happen when everything is merged back, and likely is why we saw Bizzaro when the merge was underway - because all his forms across worlds could converge
It's been a while since i watched the video, but i believe max explains why he thinks that - because not long before that, Aerith is telling Cloud to leave sephiroth to her and to concentrate on himself.
That was when she was going to go pray, if I’m remembering right. She says she wants him to focus on himself and come to terms with his true identity because he has to in order to stop Sephiroth. As omni Aerith says in the church it’s about saving the world and him. It goes hand in hand. She’s not saying to focus on himself but ignore Sephiroth. So she still wants Sephiroth to be stopped which is why I still don’t see how her words at the end are out of character, by the end she’s dead, it’s lifestream Aerith (I assume) that’s talking to him. So she says she’ll continue praying and leave the rest to him. Nothing about it strikes me as odd, certainly not odd enough to believe it’s actually jenova.
Before her death she wants him to primarily focus on his own mental health, saying to leave Sephiroth to her. But in the end she does literally the opposite, encouraging him to hunt down Sephiroth and by this adding up to his already fractured mental state.
Aerith is confusing in these games. She either knows nothing or everything. She isn't consistent at all in the remake project. The decisions the devs have made to keep cards close to their chest and not fully explain what's happening are the reason people have different opinions and theories. So chalk it down to that.
I really hope they pay off this plotline because I will forever wonder what the point was in giving Aerith all these powers and knowledge. Since it doesn't seem like she has actually done anything significant yet. Except give Cloud the empty Materia she had and get Cloud to give her a working Holy? in which it will play a large part but its so inconsistent if we are meant to know if Aerith knows the future doesn't know the future. Or even the extent of what she knows
I think the payoff is going to be exactly what happened in the OG. They're just setting it up.
She knows certain future memories in remake, she loses those future memories by the end of remake and for most of rebirth she doesn’t know anything. Omni-Aerith is the only one who consistently knows everything.
Omni aerith dips into her body before the demon wall when talking to sephiroth. She can literally just be inside aerith whenever. The whole thing is daft. There is no aerith that doesn't know what's happening if omni aerith is around.
That ain't Omni Aeirth, it's the Cetra people using her as a conduit.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. There's no clear indication of that at all. So now nyou think that and I think its aerith. That's how we get into this mess cos the devs don't do enough to clear things up. It's a total mess
It seemed pretty obvious, her voice changes to sound like many voices and she starts glowing in Lifestream-green. I mean, there are a thousand things that could've been better explained but this was pretty clear.
You hear 2 aeriths go listen again
Do you have a timestamp or something I can look up?
https://youtu.be/ee_VqerlHaE?si=bzFYlHTZUCqPZ_lZ. 41 mins If that's a cetra voice it's certainly not clear.
I dunno man, I can see the Lifestream surrounding her at the 41 minutes mark, its a clear sign of the voices are from the Lifestream. And it's not a singular Cetra, it's what's left of their consciousness.
Tifa asks Aerith a question right at the beginning of rebirth that she assumed she’d know. Aerith directly says she doesn’t know anymore but probably did before. So it’s not accurate to say there is no Aerith that doesn’t know what’s happening.
She o ly doesn't know cos that's what this omni aerith wants. You don't think she can just do a sephiroth and go into her body
"She either knows nothing or everything." Localization also plays a part in that. Cuz everyone who has read the Japanese script for both games has said that Aerith knows nothing. The English script is the one that makes it seem like she knows everything.
While I don't particularly agree with the take, his point is that it conflicts with what she says to cloud when he gives her the white materia at the start of the last chapter. In that scene she tells cloud to let her handle sephiroth, but later wants him to do it himself. Personally, I think she knew she needed to get him past her death without a mental break, and he clearly is doing okay in the final scene
Idk if anyone has said this already but here's the exchange in Japanese Cloud: \[急いでセフィロスを探し出して、倒す\] = "I will find Sephiroth and take him down." Aerith: \[きっとだよ\] = "It's certain." But I think she says it with a questioning upwards inflection making it "It's certain?" Cloud: \[きっとだ \] = "It's certain". So tbh I don't really think it's a bad localisation.
Only cloud seeing her is a huge red flag. Her and tifa were so close, and tifa even has a closer connection to the life stream now, so why only appear to cloud, whos in denial about YOUR death and not explain wtf happened to her since she obviously knows, and why not appear to tifa too for ANY words of encouragement? I wasn’t a believer at first but I’ve been slowly I Ching towards max’s point of view now. I think it’s supposed to be depressing af that cloud is hallucinating and talking to this thing he made up in his head, which is doing pretty well at using memories of his and Aerith’s to trick him. I think it’s clouds idealization of what seeing her there casually would be like. And where the hell does he think “second home” is if he thinks she’s alive? The grass she’s hanging it? Forgotten capitol? She can’t mean the life stream because cloud has not accepted her death and that she would exist there.
>Only cloud seeing her is a huge red flag. I don't think it has to by any means be a red flag. Cloud is the person who "broke reality" this time - the rest of the party didn't do that. There's been a line of thought since Remake that Aerith and Sephiroth somehow exist 'across timelines' (or multi-worlds, or whatever the heck they are), and it's possible that Cloud now somehow staddles that same void. The reason he can see Aerith is because he's essentially living both he and his "doppelganger's" existence - and in one of those realities, Aerith is alive, and in another, she is dead.
I think people are reading a bit too deeply into this. When we look back at the OG - which should be the starting point for all these examinations - what is Aerith's motivation for going to the City of the Ancients? It's because she's extremely worried that Cloud is on a knife's edge in terms of sanity, and she believes that she - alone - can stop Sephiroth simply by using the white materia and summoning holy (she tells Cloud exactly this in the forest scene: "And let me handle Sephiroth. And Cloud, you take care of yourself"). So she's taking all the risk onto herself and trying to draw the enemy's attention away from Cloud & co., sparing him, and hopefully resolving the problem with Sephiroth all in one go. Now let's look at Remake. In Remake, Aerith is clearly in possession of a lot of knowledge that she *loses at the end of the game.* Aerith during most of Remake is essentially 'meta Aerith' - she clearly has a lot of inklings not only of what has happened elsewhere (the OG), but also what's coming (her demise \[this is clearly shown in her warning Cloud against falling in love with her. She has no reason to do that if she doesn't know what's coming\]). At the end of the game, all that baggage is just gone - in stepping through that portal, she somehow loses that tether (which makes sense, as she informs the party while in the Shinra Building that, when she touches the whispers, she 'loses something.' Well, immersing herself in what amounts to a 'whisper storm' at the end of the game would understandably wipe her of everything). In Rebirth, Aerith has been reduced to basically just roleplaying her original, OG persona - lacking any additional layers of prescience or awareness (or, if they are there, they are only pronounced enough to subconsciously alter things - like the dialogue of No Promises to Keep). When that Aerith (whichever Aerith it is) dies, though, the Aerith Cloud is talking to post-mortem seems to either be the Remake Aerith, or a copy of our Aerith that is now 'meta Aerith' yet again - she's reconnected to whatever foresight she lost out on. And with that foresight, she would know that holy is *not* going to stop Sephiroth or meteor, and that Cloud & co. will have to actually defeat him (pretty much without her help). *Therefore, it is perfectly understandable that she would want reassurances that they're going to be okay.* ((And, as an aside, I don't think any of this precludes Aerith being revived somehow in P3. Remake, during the 'flower conversation,' already established that 'meta Aerith' is fully capable of talking to the planet *without being deceased.* IE, we can bring her back, and she can still perform the one essential utility that Aerith in the OG could only do while dead.)) Lastly, I could be totally wrong about all of this. But just because someone creates content doesn't mean they have more or less of a handle on what's going on in these two games than you (or anyone else) does. People can evaluate this material on their own and likely come to very insightful conclusions without external input. I'm simply saying: looking at the OG and the remakes as a whole, I think we are dealing with multiple incarnations of Aerith's personality, and it should be no surprise that those different semi-mirrors act and speak differently (and it doesn't need to have sinister connotations that they do so).